From bsutter at redhat.com Fri Jun 1 07:46:29 2018 From: bsutter at redhat.com (Burr Sutter) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:46:29 +0800 Subject: [Devtools] minishift in singapore Message-ID: I think there may be an issue with using minishift in SG. SG has some "special" networking issues as there is essentially a "great firewall of singapore". How is the total download volume (in MBs) that we can expect from a minishift? minishift v1.16.1+d9a86c9 Here are my commands (from bit.ly/istio-tutorial) minishift profile set istio-tutorial minishift config set memory 8GB minishift config set cpus 3 minishift config set vm-driver virtualbox ## or kvm, for Fedora minishift config set image-caching true minishift addon enable admin-user minishift start ---------- Tried it 5 times today and it "freezes" at various places like: Pulling image openshift/origin:v3.9.0 Pulled 1/4 layers, 26% complete Pulled 1/4 layers, 42% complete Pulled 1/4 layers, 59% complete Pulled 2/4 layers, 74% complete Pulled 3/4 layers, 89% complete --- or Downloading OpenShift binary 'oc' version 'v3.9.0' 1.61 MiB / 40.58 MiB [===>---------------------------------------------------------------------------] 3.97% 17m36s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prkumar at redhat.com Fri Jun 1 07:59:20 2018 From: prkumar at redhat.com (Praveen Kumar) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 13:29:20 +0530 Subject: [Devtools] minishift in singapore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Burr Sutter wrote: > I think there may be an issue with using minishift in SG. SG has some > "special" networking issues as there is essentially a "great firewall of > singapore". > > How is the total download volume (in MBs) that we can expect from a > minishift? > > minishift v1.16.1+d9a86c9 > > Here are my commands (from bit.ly/istio-tutorial) > minishift profile set istio-tutorial > minishift config set memory 8GB > minishift config set cpus 3 > minishift config set vm-driver virtualbox ## or kvm, for Fedora > minishift config set image-caching true > minishift addon enable admin-user > minishift start > > ---------- > Tried it 5 times today and it "freezes" at various places like: > Pulling image openshift/origin:v3.9.0 > Pulled 1/4 layers, 26% complete > Pulled 1/4 layers, 42% complete > Pulled 1/4 layers, 59% complete > Pulled 2/4 layers, 74% complete > Pulled 3/4 layers, 89% complete > > --- > or > > Downloading OpenShift binary 'oc' version 'v3.9.0' > > 1.61 MiB / 40.58 MiB > [===>---------------------------------------------------------------------------] > 3.97% 17m36s Looks like GitHub and docker hub connectivity issue instead minishift per se, can you try to download the `oc` binary on your host and see if the speed any better? Another hack way of doing is following (now if any image export command fails then you again start and docker should resume it without any issue) ``` $ export MINISHIFT_ENABLE_EXPERIMENTAL=y $ minishift start --no-provision => this will only start the VM and do nothing. $ minishift image export openshift/origin:v3.9.0 $ minishift image export openshift/origin-web-console:v3.9.0 $ minishift image export openshift/origin-docker-registry:v3.9.0 ..etc. ``` Once images are cached you can delete that non-provisioned VM and start fresh with image-cache enabled. I am not sure if minishift-1.16.1 have `no-provision` flag but `1.18.0` have. -- Praveen Kumar https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kumarpraveen From bsutter at redhat.com Fri Jun 1 08:50:04 2018 From: bsutter at redhat.com (Burr Sutter) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 16:50:04 +0800 Subject: [Devtools] minishift in singapore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good thoughts I will go back to the hotel in a couple of hours and try again from there. For the predownload of the oc binary, where do I place it on my machine so that minishift is happy about it? On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 3:59 PM Praveen Kumar wrote: > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Burr Sutter wrote: > > I think there may be an issue with using minishift in SG. SG has some > > "special" networking issues as there is essentially a "great firewall of > > singapore". > > > > How is the total download volume (in MBs) that we can expect from a > > minishift? > > > > minishift v1.16.1+d9a86c9 > > > > Here are my commands (from bit.ly/istio-tutorial) > > minishift profile set istio-tutorial > > minishift config set memory 8GB > > minishift config set cpus 3 > > minishift config set vm-driver virtualbox ## or kvm, for Fedora > > minishift config set image-caching true > > minishift addon enable admin-user > > minishift start > > > > ---------- > > Tried it 5 times today and it "freezes" at various places like: > > Pulling image openshift/origin:v3.9.0 > > Pulled 1/4 layers, 26% complete > > Pulled 1/4 layers, 42% complete > > Pulled 1/4 layers, 59% complete > > Pulled 2/4 layers, 74% complete > > Pulled 3/4 layers, 89% complete > > > > --- > > or > > > > Downloading OpenShift binary 'oc' version 'v3.9.0' > > > > 1.61 MiB / 40.58 MiB > > > [===>---------------------------------------------------------------------------] > > 3.97% 17m36s > > Looks like GitHub and docker hub connectivity issue instead minishift > per se, can you try to download the `oc` binary on your host and see > if the speed any better? > > Another hack way of doing is following (now if any image export > command fails then you again start and docker should resume it without > any issue) > > ``` > $ export MINISHIFT_ENABLE_EXPERIMENTAL=y > $ minishift start --no-provision => this will only start the VM and do > nothing. > > $ minishift image export openshift/origin:v3.9.0 > $ minishift image export openshift/origin-web-console:v3.9.0 > $ minishift image export openshift/origin-docker-registry:v3.9.0 > ..etc. > ``` > > Once images are cached you can delete that non-provisioned VM and > start fresh with image-cache enabled. I am not sure if > minishift-1.16.1 have `no-provision` flag but `1.18.0` have. > > -- > Praveen Kumar > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kumarpraveen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prkumar at redhat.com Fri Jun 1 08:52:40 2018 From: prkumar at redhat.com (Praveen Kumar) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:22:40 +0530 Subject: [Devtools] minishift in singapore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:20 PM, Burr Sutter wrote: > Good thoughts > I will go back to the hotel in a couple of hours and try again from there. > > For the predownload of the oc binary, where do I place it on my machine so > that minishift is happy about it? ~/.minishift/cache/oc/v3.9.0/linux/ => for linux ~/.minishift/cache/oc/v3.9.0/darwin/ => for mac -- Praveen Kumar https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kumarpraveen From bsutter at redhat.com Sat Jun 9 08:48:33 2018 From: bsutter at redhat.com (Burr Sutter) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 04:48:33 -0400 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> Message-ID: Based on the "other thread"... It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to our developer experience. So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the "nays" and focus just on "making it more awesome"? On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen wrote: > Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t make sense > please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap request for > inputs. > > The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work together on > this rather than see even more new forks. > > And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. > > The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also relate > to middleware etc. > > > /max > http://about.me/maxandersen > > > On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: > > Hi Burr, > > let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: > > * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and non-s2i > [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will continue to > use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). > > * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use cases, so > we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage OpenShift builds > and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope gets aligned > currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from being a > general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, helm, cluster > installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't want to > maintain them for no obvious reason. > We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start a > discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. > > * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the > upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of f-m-p) > > These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev tools > team is planning on doing, of course. > > regards ... > ... roland > > [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i > [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java > [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin > [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter wrote: > >> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >> >> Specifically the >> base docker images >> maven plugin >> >> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is still >> one of our most successful assets (seen in bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >> _______________________________________________ >> Devtools mailing list >> Devtools at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> > _______________________________________________ > Devtools mailing list > Devtools at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alr at redhat.com Mon Jun 11 15:04:09 2018 From: alr at redhat.com (Andrew Lee Rubinger) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 11:04:09 -0400 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter wrote: > Based on the "other thread"... > > It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to our > developer experience. > Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to oc, yes. S, ALR > > So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the "nays" and > focus just on "making it more awesome"? > > > > On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen wrote: > >> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t make >> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap request for >> inputs. >> >> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work together on >> this rather than see even more new forks. >> >> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. >> >> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also relate >> to middleware etc. >> >> >> /max >> http://about.me/maxandersen >> >> >> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: >> >> Hi Burr, >> >> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: >> >> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and non-s2i >> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will continue to >> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). >> >> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use cases, >> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage OpenShift >> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope gets >> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from being >> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, helm, >> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't want to >> maintain them for no obvious reason. >> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start a >> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. >> >> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the >> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of f-m-p) >> >> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev tools >> team is planning on doing, of course. >> >> regards ... >> ... roland >> >> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i >> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java >> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin >> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin >> >> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter wrote: >> >>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >>> >>> Specifically the >>> base docker images >>> maven plugin >>> >>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is still >>> one of our most successful assets (seen in bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Devtools mailing list >>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Devtools mailing list >> Devtools at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Devtools mailing list > Devtools at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > > -- Twitter: @ALRubinger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gercan at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 21:21:58 2018 From: gercan at redhat.com (Gorkem Ercan) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 16:21:58 -0500 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter > wrote: > >> Based on the "other thread"... >> >> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to >> our >> developer experience. >> > > Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to > oc, yes. > What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or something else? > S, > ALR > > >> >> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the "nays" >> and >> focus just on "making it more awesome"? >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen >> wrote: >> >>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t >>> make >>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap >>> request for >>> inputs. >>> >>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work together >>> on >>> this rather than see even more new forks. >>> >>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. >>> >>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also >>> relate >>> to middleware etc. >>> >>> >>> /max >>> http://about.me/maxandersen >>> >>> >>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: >>> >>> Hi Burr, >>> >>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: >>> >>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and >>> non-s2i >>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will >>> continue to >>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). >>> >>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use >>> cases, >>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage >>> OpenShift >>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope >>> gets >>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from >>> being >>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, helm, >>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't >>> want to >>> maintain them for no obvious reason. >>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start >>> a >>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. >>> >>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the >>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of f-m-p) >>> >>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev >>> tools >>> team is planning on doing, of course. >>> >>> regards ... >>> ... roland >>> >>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i >>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java >>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin >>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin >>> >>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >>>> >>>> Specifically the >>>> base docker images >>>> maven plugin >>>> >>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is >>>> still >>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in >>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Devtools mailing list >>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Devtools mailing list >>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Devtools mailing list >> Devtools at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >> > > > -- > Twitter: @ALRubinger > _______________________________________________ > Devtools mailing list > Devtools at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools From aslak at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 21:46:10 2018 From: aslak at redhat.com (Aslak Knutsen) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 23:46:10 +0200 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> Message-ID: Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin. It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just might be usable outside of that target audience. -aslak- On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan wrote: > > On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter > > wrote: > > > >> Based on the "other thread"... > >> > >> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to > >> our > >> developer experience. > >> > > > > Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to > > oc, yes. > > > > What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or > something else? > > > > S, > > ALR > > > > > >> > >> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the "nays" > >> and > >> focus just on "making it more awesome"? > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t > >>> make > >>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap > >>> request for > >>> inputs. > >>> > >>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work together > >>> on > >>> this rather than see even more new forks. > >>> > >>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. > >>> > >>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also > >>> relate > >>> to middleware etc. > >>> > >>> > >>> /max > >>> http://about.me/maxandersen > >>> > >>> > >>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Burr, > >>> > >>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: > >>> > >>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and > >>> non-s2i > >>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will > >>> continue to > >>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). > >>> > >>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use > >>> cases, > >>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage > >>> OpenShift > >>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope > >>> gets > >>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from > >>> being > >>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, helm, > >>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't > >>> want to > >>> maintain them for no obvious reason. > >>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start > >>> a > >>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. > >>> > >>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the > >>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of f-m-p) > >>> > >>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev > >>> tools > >>> team is planning on doing, of course. > >>> > >>> regards ... > >>> ... roland > >>> > >>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i > >>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java > >>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin > >>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin > >>> > >>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? > >>>> > >>>> Specifically the > >>>> base docker images > >>>> maven plugin > >>>> > >>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is > >>>> still > >>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in > >>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Devtools mailing list > >>>> Devtools at redhat.com > >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Devtools mailing list > >>> Devtools at redhat.com > >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Devtools mailing list > >> Devtools at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Twitter: @ALRubinger > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Devtools mailing list > > Devtools at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > > _______________________________________________ > Devtools mailing list > Devtools at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gercan at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 22:13:59 2018 From: gercan at redhat.com (Gorkem Ercan) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:13:59 -0500 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 13 Jun 2018, at 16:46, Aslak Knutsen wrote: > Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin. > > It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just might be > usable outside of that target audience. Sure, I meant whether we are assuming a maven plugin as a deliverable? > > -aslak- > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan wrote: > >> >> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Based on the "other thread"... >>>> >>>> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to >>>> our >>>> developer experience. >>>> >>> >>> Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to >>> oc, yes. >>> >> >> What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or >> something else? >> >> >>> S, >>> ALR >>> >>> >>>> >>>> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the "nays" >>>> and >>>> focus just on "making it more awesome"? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t >>>>> make >>>>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap >>>>> request for >>>>> inputs. >>>>> >>>>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work together >>>>> on >>>>> this rather than see even more new forks. >>>>> >>>>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. >>>>> >>>>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also >>>>> relate >>>>> to middleware etc. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> /max >>>>> http://about.me/maxandersen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Burr, >>>>> >>>>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: >>>>> >>>>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and >>>>> non-s2i >>>>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will >>>>> continue to >>>>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). >>>>> >>>>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use >>>>> cases, >>>>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage >>>>> OpenShift >>>>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope >>>>> gets >>>>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from >>>>> being >>>>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, helm, >>>>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't >>>>> want to >>>>> maintain them for no obvious reason. >>>>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start >>>>> a >>>>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. >>>>> >>>>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the >>>>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of f-m-p) >>>>> >>>>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev >>>>> tools >>>>> team is planning on doing, of course. >>>>> >>>>> regards ... >>>>> ... roland >>>>> >>>>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i >>>>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java >>>>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin >>>>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >>>>>> >>>>>> Specifically the >>>>>> base docker images >>>>>> maven plugin >>>>>> >>>>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is >>>>>> still >>>>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in >>>>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Devtools mailing list >>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Twitter: @ALRubinger >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Devtools mailing list >>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Devtools mailing list >> Devtools at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> From bsutter at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 23:51:18 2018 From: bsutter at redhat.com (Burr Sutter) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:51:18 +0200 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:15 PM Gorkem Ercan wrote: > > > On 13 Jun 2018, at 16:46, Aslak Knutsen wrote: > > > Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin. > > > > It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just might > be > > usable outside of that target audience. > > Sure, I meant whether we are assuming a maven plugin as a deliverable? > We must have a maven plugin offering. Ideally gradle and npm as well. Roland made note in another thread that a fair bit of the current capabilities could likely get removed. > > > > > -aslak- > > > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan wrote: > > > >> > >> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > >> > >>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Based on the "other thread"... > >>>> > >>>> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to > >>>> our > >>>> developer experience. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to > >>> oc, yes. > >>> > >> > >> What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or > >> something else? > >> > >> > >>> S, > >>> ALR > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the "nays" > >>>> and > >>>> focus just on "making it more awesome"? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t > >>>>> make > >>>>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap > >>>>> request for > >>>>> inputs. > >>>>> > >>>>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work together > >>>>> on > >>>>> this rather than see even more new forks. > >>>>> > >>>>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. > >>>>> > >>>>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also > >>>>> relate > >>>>> to middleware etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> /max > >>>>> http://about.me/maxandersen > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Burr, > >>>>> > >>>>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: > >>>>> > >>>>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and > >>>>> non-s2i > >>>>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will > >>>>> continue to > >>>>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). > >>>>> > >>>>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use > >>>>> cases, > >>>>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage > >>>>> OpenShift > >>>>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope > >>>>> gets > >>>>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from > >>>>> being > >>>>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, helm, > >>>>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't > >>>>> want to > >>>>> maintain them for no obvious reason. > >>>>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start > >>>>> a > >>>>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. > >>>>> > >>>>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the > >>>>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of f-m-p) > >>>>> > >>>>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev > >>>>> tools > >>>>> team is planning on doing, of course. > >>>>> > >>>>> regards ... > >>>>> ... roland > >>>>> > >>>>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i > >>>>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java > >>>>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin > >>>>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Specifically the > >>>>>> base docker images > >>>>>> maven plugin > >>>>>> > >>>>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is > >>>>>> still > >>>>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in > >>>>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Devtools mailing list > >>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com > >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Devtools mailing list > >>>>> Devtools at redhat.com > >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Devtools mailing list > >>>> Devtools at redhat.com > >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Twitter: @ALRubinger > >> > >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Devtools mailing list > >>> Devtools at redhat.com > >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Devtools mailing list > >> Devtools at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Devtools mailing list > Devtools at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alr at redhat.com Thu Jun 14 00:32:14 2018 From: alr at redhat.com (Andrew Lee Rubinger) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:32:14 -0400 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Burr Sutter wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:15 PM Gorkem Ercan wrote: > >> >> >> On 13 Jun 2018, at 16:46, Aslak Knutsen wrote: >> >> > Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin. >> > >> > It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just might >> be >> > usable outside of that target audience. >> >> Sure, I meant whether we are assuming a maven plugin as a deliverable? >> > > We must have a maven plugin offering. Ideally gradle and npm as well. > In my hopes and dreams, it's a generic Java library which is then consumed and leveraged by a Maven Plugin. Like: you wouldn't put all your business logic in a servlet, so why put any in a Maven Plugin? :) > Roland made note in another thread that a fair bit of the current > capabilities could likely get removed. > Yes, but we need an inventory of these from those who are depending upon it. For instance the Fuse product. S, ALR > > > >> >> > >> > -aslak- >> > >> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Based on the "other thread"... >> >>>> >> >>>> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to >> >>>> our >> >>>> developer experience. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to >> >>> oc, yes. >> >>> >> >> >> >> What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or >> >> something else? >> >> >> >> >> >>> S, >> >>> ALR >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the "nays" >> >>>> and >> >>>> focus just on "making it more awesome"? >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t >> >>>>> make >> >>>>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap >> >>>>> request for >> >>>>> inputs. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work together >> >>>>> on >> >>>>> this rather than see even more new forks. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also >> >>>>> relate >> >>>>> to middleware etc. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> /max >> >>>>> http://about.me/maxandersen >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi Burr, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and >> >>>>> non-s2i >> >>>>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will >> >>>>> continue to >> >>>>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use >> >>>>> cases, >> >>>>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage >> >>>>> OpenShift >> >>>>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope >> >>>>> gets >> >>>>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from >> >>>>> being >> >>>>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, helm, >> >>>>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't >> >>>>> want to >> >>>>> maintain them for no obvious reason. >> >>>>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start >> >>>>> a >> >>>>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the >> >>>>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of f-m-p) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev >> >>>>> tools >> >>>>> team is planning on doing, of course. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> regards ... >> >>>>> ... roland >> >>>>> >> >>>>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i >> >>>>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java >> >>>>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin >> >>>>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Specifically the >> >>>>>> base docker images >> >>>>>> maven plugin >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is >> >>>>>> still >> >>>>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in >> >>>>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Devtools mailing list >> >>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >> >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Devtools mailing list >> >>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >> >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Devtools mailing list >> >>>> Devtools at redhat.com >> >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Twitter: @ALRubinger >> >> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Devtools mailing list >> >>> Devtools at redhat.com >> >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Devtools mailing list >> >> Devtools at redhat.com >> >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Devtools mailing list >> Devtools at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> > -- Twitter: @ALRubinger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhuss at redhat.com Thu Jun 14 05:59:08 2018 From: rhuss at redhat.com (Roland Huss) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 07:59:08 +0200 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> Message-ID: Hey Andrew, exactly that idea is laid out in https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-build where we from the Fuse team (Nicola and myself) are planning to continue there soon after we discussed this on our F2F next week. The idea to extract the main abstractions (Generators, Enrichers, Profiles) into Maven independent code, also fixing issues in the way how resources descriptors are created (i.e. two separates passes through the pipelines for Kubernetes/Openshift separately instead of running only for Kubernetes and the mangling that resources as an afterthought for OpenShift objects). This basic blocks should then be easily consumable by a Maven or Gradle plugin, any IDE and also Arquillian (cc Alex). Happy about any feedback and contributions. regards ... ... roland On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 2:33 AM Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Burr Sutter wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:15 PM Gorkem Ercan wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 13 Jun 2018, at 16:46, Aslak Knutsen wrote: >>> >>> > Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin. >>> > >>> > It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just >>> might be >>> > usable outside of that target audience. >>> >>> Sure, I meant whether we are assuming a maven plugin as a deliverable? >>> >> >> We must have a maven plugin offering. Ideally gradle and npm as well. >> > > In my hopes and dreams, it's a generic Java library which is then consumed > and leveraged by a Maven Plugin. > > Like: you wouldn't put all your business logic in a servlet, so why put > any in a Maven Plugin? :) > > >> Roland made note in another thread that a fair bit of the current >> capabilities could likely get removed. >> > > Yes, but we need an inventory of these from those who are depending upon > it. For instance the Fuse product. > > S, > ALR > > >> >> >> >>> >>> > >>> > -aslak- >>> > >>> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Based on the "other thread"... >>> >>>> >>> >>>> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to >>> >>>> our >>> >>>> developer experience. >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to >>> >>> oc, yes. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or >>> >> something else? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> S, >>> >>> ALR >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the >>> "nays" >>> >>>> and >>> >>>> focus just on "making it more awesome"? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t >>> >>>>> make >>> >>>>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap >>> >>>>> request for >>> >>>>> inputs. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work >>> together >>> >>>>> on >>> >>>>> this rather than see even more new forks. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also >>> >>>>> relate >>> >>>>> to middleware etc. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> /max >>> >>>>> http://about.me/maxandersen >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Hi Burr, >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and >>> >>>>> non-s2i >>> >>>>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will >>> >>>>> continue to >>> >>>>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use >>> >>>>> cases, >>> >>>>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage >>> >>>>> OpenShift >>> >>>>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope >>> >>>>> gets >>> >>>>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away from >>> >>>>> being >>> >>>>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, >>> helm, >>> >>>>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we don't >>> >>>>> want to >>> >>>>> maintain them for no obvious reason. >>> >>>>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to start >>> >>>>> a >>> >>>>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the >>> >>>>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of >>> f-m-p) >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev >>> >>>>> tools >>> >>>>> team is planning on doing, of course. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> regards ... >>> >>>>> ... roland >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i >>> >>>>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java >>> >>>>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin >>> >>>>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter >>> >>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Specifically the >>> >>>>>> base docker images >>> >>>>>> maven plugin >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is >>> >>>>>> still >>> >>>>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in >>> >>>>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>> >>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> Devtools mailing list >>> >>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> Devtools mailing list >>> >>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Twitter: @ALRubinger >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Devtools mailing list >>> >>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Devtools mailing list >>> >> Devtools at redhat.com >>> >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Devtools mailing list >>> Devtools at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>> >> > > > -- > Twitter: @ALRubinger > _______________________________________________ > Devtools mailing list > Devtools at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alr at redhat.com Thu Jun 14 14:39:16 2018 From: alr at redhat.com (Andrew Lee Rubinger) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 10:39:16 -0400 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 1:59 AM, Roland Huss wrote: > Hey Andrew, > > exactly that idea is laid out in https://github.com/ > fabric8io/fabric8-build where we from the Fuse team (Nicola and myself) > are planning to continue there soon after we discussed this on our F2F next > week. The idea to extract the main abstractions (Generators, Enrichers, > Profiles) into Maven independent code, also fixing issues in the way how > resources descriptors are created (i.e. two separates passes through the > pipelines for Kubernetes/Openshift separately instead of running only for > Kubernetes and the mangling that resources as an afterthought for OpenShift > objects). > On its face, sounds like an excellent plan and useful investment in tech debt payback. Have you engaged with the OpenShift team to verify that these externalized modules in fabric8-build are in turn using OpenShift as intended? Historically we've gotten into a bit of a corner by not doing thing "The OpenShift Way" and regardless of whether the approaches taken were right or wrong, it's internal friction that can be avoided. Remember that the purpose of cloud is to run applications, so we end up doing much better when our OpenShift, middleware, and tooling teams agree on a Way Things Should Work Together. > This basic blocks should then be easily consumable by a Maven or Gradle > plugin, any IDE and also Arquillian (cc Alex). > Happy about any feedback and contributions. > Very good progress if this can be made true. :) S, ALR > > regards ... > ... roland > > > > On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 2:33 AM Andrew Lee Rubinger > wrote: > >> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Burr Sutter wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:15 PM Gorkem Ercan wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 13 Jun 2018, at 16:46, Aslak Knutsen wrote: >>>> >>>> > Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin. >>>> > >>>> > It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just >>>> might be >>>> > usable outside of that target audience. >>>> >>>> Sure, I meant whether we are assuming a maven plugin as a deliverable? >>>> >>> >>> We must have a maven plugin offering. Ideally gradle and npm as well. >>> >> >> In my hopes and dreams, it's a generic Java library which is then >> consumed and leveraged by a Maven Plugin. >> >> Like: you wouldn't put all your business logic in a servlet, so why put >> any in a Maven Plugin? :) >> >> >>> Roland made note in another thread that a fair bit of the current >>> capabilities could likely get removed. >>> >> >> Yes, but we need an inventory of these from those who are depending upon >> it. For instance the Fuse product. >> >> S, >> ALR >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > -aslak- >>>> > >>>> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Based on the "other thread"... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to >>>> >>>> our >>>> >>>> developer experience. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to >>>> >>> oc, yes. >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or >>>> >> something else? >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> S, >>>> >>> ALR >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the >>>> "nays" >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> focus just on "making it more awesome"? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen >>> > >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don?t >>>> >>>>> make >>>> >>>>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the roadmap >>>> >>>>> request for >>>> >>>>> inputs. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work >>>> together >>>> >>>>> on >>>> >>>>> this rather than see even more new forks. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also >>>> >>>>> relate >>>> >>>>> to middleware etc. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> /max >>>> >>>>> http://about.me/maxandersen >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Burr, >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and >>>> >>>>> non-s2i >>>> >>>>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will >>>> >>>>> continue to >>>> >>>>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use >>>> >>>>> cases, >>>> >>>>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage >>>> >>>>> OpenShift >>>> >>>>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope >>>> >>>>> gets >>>> >>>>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away >>>> from >>>> >>>>> being >>>> >>>>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, >>>> helm, >>>> >>>>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we >>>> don't >>>> >>>>> want to >>>> >>>>> maintain them for no obvious reason. >>>> >>>>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to >>>> start >>>> >>>>> a >>>> >>>>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the >>>> >>>>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of >>>> f-m-p) >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev >>>> >>>>> tools >>>> >>>>> team is planning on doing, of course. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> regards ... >>>> >>>>> ... roland >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i >>>> >>>>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java >>>> >>>>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin >>>> >>>>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter >>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Specifically the >>>> >>>>>> base docker images >>>> >>>>>> maven plugin >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is >>>> >>>>>> still >>>> >>>>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in >>>> >>>>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>> >>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>> >>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Devtools mailing list >>>> >>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -- >>>> >>> Twitter: @ALRubinger >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Devtools mailing list >>>> >>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Devtools mailing list >>>> >> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Devtools mailing list >>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Twitter: @ALRubinger >> _______________________________________________ >> Devtools mailing list >> Devtools at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> > -- Twitter: @ALRubinger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manderse at redhat.com Thu Jun 14 14:43:10 2018 From: manderse at redhat.com (Max Rydahl Andersen) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 16:43:10 +0200 Subject: [Devtools] Fabric8 futures In-Reply-To: References: <30B1AA38-5D09-4A47-9590-F4D436D7D8DA@redhat.com> <16B9612C-3F31-4136-A88C-304EF1A21138@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1ADD9307-ECBF-4BE7-8BC3-F3A5F75F7B14@redhat.com> Looks good Roland - I assume Pradeepto and the team maintaining fabric8 maven plugin is already in on it (cc devtools-build@) /max http://about.me/maxandersen On 14 Jun 2018, at 7:59, Roland Huss wrote: > Hey Andrew, > > exactly that idea is laid out in > https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-build where > we from the Fuse team (Nicola and myself) are planning to continue > there > soon after we discussed this on our F2F next week. The idea to extract > the > main abstractions (Generators, Enrichers, Profiles) into Maven > independent > code, also fixing issues in the way how resources descriptors are > created > (i.e. two separates passes through the pipelines for > Kubernetes/Openshift > separately instead of running only for Kubernetes and the mangling > that > resources as an afterthought for OpenShift objects). > > This basic blocks should then be easily consumable by a Maven or > Gradle > plugin, any IDE and also Arquillian (cc Alex). > Happy about any feedback and contributions. > > regards ... > ... roland > > > > On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 2:33 AM Andrew Lee Rubinger > wrote: > >> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Burr Sutter >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:15 PM Gorkem Ercan >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 13 Jun 2018, at 16:46, Aslak Knutsen wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin. >>>>> >>>>> It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just >>>> might be >>>>> usable outside of that target audience. >>>> >>>> Sure, I meant whether we are assuming a maven plugin as a >>>> deliverable? >>>> >>> >>> We must have a maven plugin offering. Ideally gradle and npm as >>> well. >>> >> >> In my hopes and dreams, it's a generic Java library which is then >> consumed >> and leveraged by a Maven Plugin. >> >> Like: you wouldn't put all your business logic in a servlet, so why >> put >> any in a Maven Plugin? :) >> >> >>> Roland made note in another thread that a fair bit of the current >>> capabilities could likely get removed. >>> >> >> Yes, but we need an inventory of these from those who are depending >> upon >> it. For instance the Fuse product. >> >> S, >> ALR >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -aslak- >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Based on the "other thread"... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission >>>>>>>> critical to >>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>> developer experience. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> oc, yes. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin >>>>>> or >>>>>> something else? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> S, >>>>>>> ALR >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the >>>> "nays" >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> focus just on "making it more awesome"? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that >>>>>>>>> don?t >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> sense please speak up. I didn?t see any feedback on the >>>>>>>>> roadmap >>>>>>>>> request for >>>>>>>>> inputs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work >>>> together >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> this rather than see even more new forks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> relate >>>>>>>>> to middleware etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> /max >>>>>>>>> http://about.me/maxandersen >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Burr, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> non-s2i >>>>>>>>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will >>>>>>>>> continue to >>>>>>>>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our >>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>> cases, >>>>>>>>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage >>>>>>>>> OpenShift >>>>>>>>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's >>>>>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8, >>>> helm, >>>>>>>>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> want to >>>>>>>>> maintain them for no obvious reason. >>>>>>>>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to >>>>>>>>> start >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of >>>> f-m-p) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the >>>>>>>>> dev >>>>>>>>> tools >>>>>>>>> team is planning on doing, of course. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards ... >>>>>>>>> ... roland >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i >>>>>>>>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java >>>>>>>>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin >>>>>>>>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Specifically the >>>>>>>>>> base docker images >>>>>>>>>> maven plugin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in >>>>>>>>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo) >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>>>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Twitter: @ALRubinger >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Devtools mailing list >>>>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Devtools mailing list >>>> Devtools at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Twitter: @ALRubinger >> _______________________________________________ >> Devtools mailing list >> Devtools at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools >> > _______________________________________________ > Devtools mailing list > Devtools at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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