[Devtools] Fabric8 futures

Andrew Lee Rubinger alr at redhat.com
Thu Jun 14 14:39:16 UTC 2018 

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 1:59 AM, Roland Huss <rhuss at redhat.com> wrote:

> Hey Andrew,
>
> exactly that idea is laid out in https://github.com/
> fabric8io/fabric8-build where we from the Fuse team (Nicola and myself)
> are planning to continue there soon after we discussed this on our F2F next
> week. The idea to extract the main abstractions (Generators, Enrichers,
> Profiles) into Maven independent code, also fixing issues in the way how
> resources descriptors are created (i.e. two separates passes through the
> pipelines for Kubernetes/Openshift separately instead of running only for
> Kubernetes and the mangling that resources as an afterthought for OpenShift
> objects).
>

On its face, sounds like an excellent plan and useful investment in tech
debt payback.

Have you engaged with the OpenShift team to verify that these externalized
modules in fabric8-build are in turn using OpenShift as intended?
Historically we've gotten into a bit of a corner by not doing thing "The
OpenShift Way" and regardless of whether the approaches taken were right or
wrong, it's internal friction that can be avoided.

Remember that the purpose of cloud is to run applications, so we end up
doing much better when our OpenShift, middleware, and tooling teams agree
on a Way Things Should Work Together.


> This basic blocks should then be easily consumable by a Maven or Gradle
> plugin, any IDE and also Arquillian (cc Alex).
> Happy about any feedback and contributions.
>

Very good progress if this can be made true. :)

S,
ALR


>
> regards ...
> ... roland
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 2:33 AM Andrew Lee Rubinger <alr at redhat.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Burr Sutter <bsutter at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:15 PM Gorkem Ercan <gercan at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13 Jun 2018, at 16:46, Aslak Knutsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Anything can be wrapped in a Maven plugin.
>>>> >
>>>> > It would be preferable if it was not a Maven plugin, then it just
>>>> might be
>>>> > usable outside of that target audience.
>>>>
>>>> Sure, I meant whether we are assuming a maven plugin as a deliverable?
>>>>
>>>
>>> We must have a maven plugin offering.   Ideally gradle and npm as well.
>>>
>>
>> In my hopes and dreams, it's a generic Java library which is then
>> consumed and leveraged by a Maven Plugin.
>>
>> Like: you wouldn't put all your business logic in a servlet, so why put
>> any in a Maven Plugin? :)
>>
>>
>>> Roland made note in another thread that a fair bit of the current
>>> capabilities could likely get removed.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but we need an inventory of these from those who are depending upon
>> it.  For instance the Fuse product.
>>
>> S,
>> ALR
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > -aslak-
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 11:22 PM Gorkem Ercan <gercan at redhat.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 11 Jun 2018, at 10:04, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:48 AM, Burr Sutter <bsutter at redhat.com>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Based on the "other thread"...
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> It does seem to me that fabric8-maven-plugin is mission critical to
>>>> >>>> our
>>>> >>>> developer experience.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Or at least some incarnation of a Java language-specific adaptor to
>>>> >>> oc, yes.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What do you mean by adaptor? Are we still assuming a maven plugin or
>>>> >> something else?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> S,
>>>> >>> ALR
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So, for the parties who have been "naysayers", can we drop the
>>>> "nays"
>>>> >>>> and
>>>> >>>> focus just on "making it more awesome"?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Max Andersen <manderse at redhat.com
>>>> >
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Roland - if you are seeing OpenShift.io based fixes that don’t
>>>> >>>>> make
>>>> >>>>> sense please speak up. I didn’t see any feedback on the roadmap
>>>> >>>>> request for
>>>> >>>>> inputs.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> The intent is for sure not to diverge away. We want to work
>>>> together
>>>> >>>>> on
>>>> >>>>> this rather than see even more new forks.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> And yes gofabric8 etc. is also not of use for us.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> The whole images situation we should work on aligning as that also
>>>> >>>>> relate
>>>> >>>>> to middleware etc.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> /max
>>>> >>>>> http://about.me/maxandersen
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On 16 May 2018, at 18:44, Roland Huss <rhuss at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Hi Burr,
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> let me try to comment from a Fuse perspective:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * We are still committed to the fabric8 base images (s2i [1] and
>>>> >>>>> non-s2i
>>>> >>>>> [2]) as they are the only community images available. We will
>>>> >>>>> continue to
>>>> >>>>> use them in the future FIS releases (at least upstream).
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * The fabric8-maven-plugin's [3] scope has diverged from our use
>>>> >>>>> cases,
>>>> >>>>> so we plan to explore new ways of providing a way to leverage
>>>> >>>>> OpenShift
>>>> >>>>> builds and deployments for the FIS quickstarts. I.e. fmp's scope
>>>> >>>>> gets
>>>> >>>>> aligned currently to its usage in openshift.io, drifting away
>>>> from
>>>> >>>>> being
>>>> >>>>> a general purpose plugin. Also, many features (like gofabric8,
>>>> helm,
>>>> >>>>> cluster installation, .. support) are of no use for us, so we
>>>> don't
>>>> >>>>> want to
>>>> >>>>> maintain them for no obvious reason.
>>>> >>>>> We have some initial ideas, but nothing concrete. So happy to
>>>> start
>>>> >>>>> a
>>>> >>>>> discussion with Devtools, RHOAR and you how to align plans.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> * Fabric8's docker-maven-plugin [4] will be still supported in the
>>>> >>>>> upstream (it has been productised only as an integral part of
>>>> f-m-p)
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> These our current plan but we too are interested in what the dev
>>>> >>>>> tools
>>>> >>>>> team is planning on doing, of course.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> regards ...
>>>> >>>>> ... roland
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> [1]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/s2i
>>>> >>>>> [2]: https://github.com/fabric8io-images/java
>>>> >>>>> [3]: https://github.com/fabric8io/fabric8-maven-plugin
>>>> >>>>> [4]: https://github.com/fabric8io/docker-maven-plugin
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:45 PM Burr Sutter <bsutter at redhat.com>
>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Did we ever come to agreement on keeping F8 alive?
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Specifically the
>>>> >>>>>> base docker images
>>>> >>>>>> maven plugin
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> bit.ly/msa-instructions still relies on these tools and that is
>>>> >>>>>> still
>>>> >>>>>> one of our most successful assets (seen in
>>>> >>>>>> bit.ly/microservicesvideo)
>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/devtools
>>>> >>>>>>
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>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> Twitter: @ALRubinger
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Twitter: @ALRubinger
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>


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