<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Luis Villa wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:2cb10c440905151443s10fa60ebyae847a036690ddca@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">If you can't tell the difference between being a free man and being an asshole, a community may not be the right place for you. Or at least, it probably shouldn't be. </pre> </blockquote> Ah... you have the right to call me an asshole, just as I have the right to call you a fool, and neither of us has the right to not be offended. As Ben Franklin said: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." If you would be so foolish as to wish the removal of vitriol and "offensive" language... then you do not deserve to live in a country that has free speech. <blockquote cite="mid:2cb10c440905151443s10fa60ebyae847a036690ddca@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Or to put it another way: The Fedora community exists to work together towards some common goals. Sometimes, in the name of reaching those goals, you have to be polite and adult towards others so that you can work efficiently and constructively with those other people even when you disagree with them, and work with them in the future after you have stopped disagreeing. This use of words like 'freedom' and 'oppression' suggests to me that some people think their highest reason for being here is about them. It's not about you, it's about working together to build something bigger and better than you. And if you can't play nicely with others in the name of those bigger and better things, or don't understand why sometimes you have to play nice in order to get to those bigger and better things, then maybe this isn't the right place for you. </pre> </blockquote> Let me put this in a way you might understand... You called me an asshole earlier... and I defended your right to do so. Yet, if you were to have your way with the ML Conduct rules, you would have been moderated on this list. Sometimes the best and most effective means of communication *IS* "offensive language". Both "playing nice" and vitriol have their place in such communities. <blockquote cite="mid:2cb10c440905151443s10fa60ebyae847a036690ddca@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I'd note that while Seth's point about you not having any 'rights' to be 'free' on fedora's infrastructure is technically correct, I think it's beside the point. If you feel that those 'rights' are really important to you, then whether or not you technically have those rights is less important than the fact that you may not understand the entire point of coming together as a community to create and build software. It's like the right to set someone's house on fire- whether or not you have the legal right to set the house on fire, the fact that you're even talking about it suggests that you're missing the point. Luis</pre> </blockquote> For a community to remain open and free, regardless of intention or reason for the group to exist, free speech must reign supreme. Without it, ideas may never come to light, people may be removed, and the entire project would collapse. Even vitriol can be constructive at times. Lyos Gemini Norezel </body> </html>