<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Things only offend you if you let them, besides meanings often change.i.e the term 'broad band' original meaning applied to telco systems that use an analogue carrier, now erroneously applied to digital carriers. (but the twisting of meanings for marketing purposes is another issue) I think that the modern meaning of a Zeus temple is a lot broader now than it was before. Kind of like an old abbey in England would have a different meaning now. p.s if you worship ancient gods, well good on ya mate. --- On Sun, 15/3/09, fedora-art-list-request@redhat.com <fedora-art-list-request@redhat.com> wrote: <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">From: fedora-art-list-request@redhat.com <fedora-art-list-request@redhat.com> Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 36, Issue 26 To: fedora-art-list@redhat.com Received: Sunday, 15 March, 2009, 2:00 PM <pre>Send Fedora-art-list mailing list submissions to fedora-art-list@redhat.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fedora-art-list-request@redhat.com You can reach the person managing the list at fedora-art-list-owner@redhat.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Fedora-art-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Jeff Spaleta) 2. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Martin Sourada) 3. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Jeff Spaleta) 4. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Paul W. Frields) 5. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (M?ir?n Duffy) 6. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (M?ir?n Duffy) 7. Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork (Ian Weller) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:55:51 -0800 From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> Subject: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910903141155j392f4afcm8396c1697554f542@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your consideration as a group. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html "Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus worships paganism" To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. -jef ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:33:12 +0100 From: Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1237062792.11267.23.camel@pc-notebook> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 10:55 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the > wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your > consideration as a group. > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html > > "Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last > week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious > subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional > reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a > picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus worships > paganism" > > > To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture > specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been > raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm > bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. > > -jef Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there. There is vast difference between you worshiping ancient Greece gods (not that it would be something bad if you actually do) and having a huge Zeus' temple wallpaper hanging on your wall, let alone the wallpaper in your PC (which you can promptly change if you disagree with the content)... Come on, we have names of months named after ancient Rome gods (and important people) and it still does not say anything about our beliefs. While I agree we should stay away from political references, subtle cultural references are IMHO good and bring Fedora to "next level" in this aspect. Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/attachments/20090314/9420e97f/attachment.bin ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:13:43 -0800 From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910903141413k7022168eqce852ca173dd7d40@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2009/3/14 Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com>: > Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there. I'm delibrately not trying to make a statement as to validity of the reasoning about the objection. In fact, I might even question the idea that "reasoning" is ever a part of an "emotional" response. I'm pointing this out only because this is the first instance that I know of where this sort of emotional response on the grounds of cultural sensitivity has arisen in the work your group is doing. I certainly don't have the same emotional response. My emotion response is more of fear of the ominous,wheeling, flock of birds in the image. I haven't brought it up as a point of contention because I'm fully self-aware that most people don't perceive birds as the danger to humanity that they really are....yet. Such pastoral views of flocking birds in the sky only serves to lessen our natural fear of these foul, foul descendent of the dinosaurs...disarming us of our ability to react when they final swoop down en masse to get us. But I digress... We can't necessarily reason with irrational emotional responses. You might have to talk more about what that structure is meant to convey emotionally...if its worth talking about at all. -jef ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:29:32 -0400 From: "Paul W. Frields" <stickster@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork To: fedora-art-list@redhat.com Message-ID: <20090314222932.GG19452@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 01:13:43PM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > 2009/3/14 Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com>: > > Hm... I don't see a valid reasoning there. > > I'm delibrately not trying to make a statement as to validity of the > reasoning about the objection. In fact, I might even question the idea > that "reasoning" is ever a part of an "emotional" response. I'm > pointing this out only because this is the first instance that I know > of where this sort of emotional response on the grounds of cultural > sensitivity has arisen in the work your group is doing. > > I certainly don't have the same emotional response. My emotion > response is more of fear of the ominous,wheeling, flock of birds in > the image. I haven't brought it up as a point of contention because > I'm fully self-aware that most people don't perceive birds as the > danger to humanity that they really are....yet. Such pastoral views > of flocking birds in the sky only serves to lessen our natural fear of > these foul, foul descendent of the dinosaurs...disarming us of our > ability to react when they final swoop down en masse to get us. But I > digress... OK, thanks for that digression, Tippi. ;-) > We can't necessarily reason with irrational emotional responses. You > might have to talk more about what that structure is meant to convey > emotionally...if its worth talking about at all. I'm not sure it is -- but the conveyance as far as I know is simply to acknowledge the heritage of the "Leonidas" name. Any other inference is probably a stretch. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/attachments/20090314/1aa6ee65/attachment.bin ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT) From: M?ir?n Duffy <mairin@linuxgrrl.com> Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> Message-ID: <518191.96829.qm@web50902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello Jeff, Thank you for bringing this serious matter to our attention - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> > To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:55:51 PM > Subject: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork > > I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the > wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your > consideration as a group. > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html > > "Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last > week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious > subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional > reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a > picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus worships > paganism" > > > To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture > specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been > raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm > bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. I totally agree. I can't believe I didn't even think about this. We need to stop the presses, immediately. Shut down all Fedora yum repo mirrors, we must stop distributing this artwork immediately. I cannot believe we let something like this out, something so divisive and controversial. I assure you it won't happen again. You see, Fedora really has a big problem on its hands here, and I will personally make it my responsibility to rectify the situation: First up - this Paul Frields guy - who puts a guy named "Paul" in charge of something? "Paul" is one of the apostles of that Jesus guy, right? A saint at least. We can't have that. No siree. We cannot have any possible reference to any organized religion in our utopian operating system's leadership. We need someone like me in charge of Fedora. M�ir�n - sure it's the Gaelic diminutive of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, but it's got ACCENT MARKS. That totally makes it okay. Effective immediately, we have to revoke Fedora version control access to anyone with a name that has religious roots. We've got to nip this in the bud. Then, we've got this other problem. See, we have this color "blue" that symbolizes Fedora. This is a MAJOR problem, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue#Religion - Not only is blue an important, symbolic color in the Hindu religion, but it's also an important color in Judaism! We've got a major, major problem here. As soon as I'm stated as the new Fedora project leader, I will change the official Fedora color to blah grey, because that can't possibly symbolize ANYTHING. In fact, I think we need to cancel the Fedora art team. From now on, all of our artwork will just be blah grey-colored squares. We just can't risk offending anyone. Done and done! Ahhhh! Oh, my go... er, erm whoah whoah Nelly there! I *really* mean, oh my "gads"! I just realized, this is way bigger a problem than we originally thought. This goes way beyond Fedora. Check this out: - The New York Public Library: http://www.flickr.com/photos/72131699@N00/238786611/ (They featured this building in Spiderman! The insensitive, incendiary clods! This is supposed to be a library! A place of higher learning! Above religion! It's indelibly marked with religious conflict all over it! It looks JUST LIKE A TEMPLE. How could I not have seen this before????) - The White House: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kathleen-andersen/237167863/ (There go those Americans again, stirring up deeply-rooted religious strife by making their president's accomodations resemble a Greek temple! So much for the separation of church and state!) - apple.com - these computers are swiftly gaining popularity. We have to stop this scourge. I mean, clearly "Apple" is a reference to a Biblical passage involving a garden and snakes and naked people and that sort of thing. How offensive! - Battlestar Galactica - they've got this kind of chorus-y hymn-sounding chanting for a theme song. Kind of like religious chanting! They are obviously broadcasting subliminal religious messages. Good thing you brought this conspiracy up. Now we can warn the good people of the world! I'm just too distraught to carry on. I feel like my entire world is full of these things symbolizing other things, and I'm finding myself strangely offended by everything. Like the crown molding along the ceiling of my apartment, which now looks like the columns of a temple. Or the weave pattern in the rug beneath my feet, which seems to contain some hidden heathen message. Crap. I'm typing this all on a computer with FEDORA on it, with a blue Fedora logo in the upper left corner and that horrible, awful religious wallpaper. My palms are tingling. I'm going to go run to the kitchen and scrub them with a Brillo pad... oh crap, those are blue aren't they. Bleach! I'll scrub them with bleach. Wait isn't the color white symbolic of the afterlife? Well... I'm just going to drop the laptop now and run as far away as I can. Stay safe! ~m ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:58:39 -0700 (PDT) From: M?ir?n Duffy <mairin@linuxgrrl.com> Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> Message-ID: <986551.97271.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ---- > From: M�ir�n Duffy <mairin@linuxgrrl.com> > To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52:58 PM > Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork > > > Hello Jeff, > > Thank you for bringing this serious matter to our attention - Oh crap, I just realized my reply might be OFFENSIVE. Crap. No humor or satire allowed in Fedora either! ~m ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:59:54 -0500 From: Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Just an FYI concerning the beta artwork To: Fedora Art List <fedora-art-list@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090315005954.GO24283@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 05:52:58PM -0700, M�ir�n Duffy wrote: > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> > > > > I hadn't seen anyone else bring this perspective up concerning the > > wallpaper in the beta and I thought it deserved attention for your > > consideration as a group. > > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-olpc-list/2009-March/msg00147.html > > > > "Seems to me whoever chose the background that was introduced last > > week did not consider that items with overtones of dissentious > > subjects such as politics or religion might elicit emotional > > reactions. I'm concerned that when my system prominently shows a > > picture with a temple, that might be interpreted as "Mikus worships > > paganism" > > > > > > To my reckoning this is the first Fedora artwork that has had culture > > specific elements in it, so this sort of issue might never have been > > raised in prior discussions. I don't know, I mostly lurk. But I'm > > bringing it to your attention to make sure you see that reaction. > > I totally agree. I can't believe I didn't even think about this. We need to stop the presses, immediately. Shut down all Fedora yum repo mirrors, we must stop distributing this artwork immediately. I cannot believe we let something like this out, something so divisive and controversial. I assure you it won't happen again. You see, Fedora really has a big problem on its hands here, and I will personally make it my responsibility to rectify the situation: > > First up - this Paul Frields guy - who puts a guy named "Paul" in charge of something? "Paul" is one of the apostles of that Jesus guy, right? A saint at least. We can't have that. No siree. We cannot have any possible reference to any organized religion in our utopian operating system's leadership. We need someone like me in charge of Fedora. M�ir�n - sure it's the Gaelic diminutive of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, but it's got ACCENT MARKS. That totally makes it okay. Effective immediately, we have to revoke Fedora version control access to anyone with a name that has religious roots. We've got to nip this in the bud. [snip] > > Stay safe! > I would like to take this moment to ask everyone to stop this thread right here before it goes any more crazy/sarcastic/ballistic. Thanks! -- Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com> http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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