From nandox7 at myrealbox.com Mon Dec 1 01:41:08 2003 From: nandox7 at myrealbox.com (Nando) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 01:41:08 -0000 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg References: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <001b01c3b7ac$31e82060$9a5cfea9@scorpion> It was good to have the possibility to easily change that icon, like all the rest. Regarding you ideia, show it. =) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fernando Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:38 PM Subject: Re: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg > I was thinking of making an alternate icon for myself to replace "the > hat on the panel". Maybe something slightly different to reflect fedora. > I was considering making the hat's brim more angular and putting a > feather in the black band. > WHat does everyone think about this? > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > From ready at rosa.com Mon Dec 1 07:22:58 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:22:58 +0100 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> References: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FCAEC52.8030105@rosa.com> I would suggest we setup a design database for all icons... including themes and relationships... and later voting... And for the hat in the panel... well, I suggest we need something sexy. We even need something unrelated to RedHat... Greets, Marky Fernando Fernandez wrote: > I was thinking of making an alternate icon for myself to replace "the >hat on the panel". Maybe something slightly different to reflect fedora. >I was considering making the hat's brim more angular and putting a >feather in the black band. > WHat does everyone think about this? > > >-- >Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: CEO, Product & Strategy R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From kreg at virtual1.net Mon Dec 1 12:56:37 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:56:37 -0500 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <3FCAEC52.8030105@rosa.com> References: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> <3FCAEC52.8030105@rosa.com> Message-ID: <3FCB3A85.7040805@virtual1.net> Marky Goldstein wrote: > I would suggest we setup a design database for all icons... > including themes and relationships... and later voting... > > And for the hat in the panel... well, I suggest we need > something sexy. We even need something unrelated to > RedHat... > > Greets, > Marky > > > Fernando Fernandez wrote: > >> I was thinking of making an alternate icon for myself to replace "the >> hat on the panel". Maybe something slightly different to reflect fedora. >> I was considering making the hat's brim more angular and putting a >> feather in the black band. >> WHat does everyone think about this? >> >> >> -- >> Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >> Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list >> >> > > I personally like the hat (hat == fedora). However I wouldn't mind seeing the 'F' favicon on http://fedora.redhat.com in a larger version for the menu. Kreg From linux at bytebot.net Mon Dec 1 13:09:56 2003 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:09:56 +0800 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> References: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <1070265862.21652.30.camel@hermione> On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 07:38, Fernando Fernandez wrote: > I was thinking of making an alternate icon for myself to replace "the > hat on the panel". Maybe something slightly different to reflect fedora. > I was considering making the hat's brim more angular and putting a > feather in the black band. > WHat does everyone think about this? The Fedora != Red Hat after all. They've got a copyright on the Shadow Man logo, but not on the Fedora. I think the red-colored Fedora is actually quite nice to look at. This after taking into consideration people's confusion as to "Red Hat is dead, now what" attitutdes. But show us an alternative and I'm sure we could vote on it. -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From kjsisco at rcn.com Mon Dec 1 13:44:04 2003 From: kjsisco at rcn.com (kevin) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:44:04 -0500 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg References: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> <1070265862.21652.30.camel@hermione> Message-ID: <000601c3b811$3008e530$7f4cfea9@Kevin> I like the idea alot. Kevin email: kjsisco at rcn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Charles" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg > On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 07:38, Fernando Fernandez wrote: > > I was thinking of making an alternate icon for myself to replace "the > > hat on the panel". Maybe something slightly different to reflect fedora. > > I was considering making the hat's brim more angular and putting a > > feather in the black band. > > WHat does everyone think about this? > > The Fedora != Red Hat after all. They've got a copyright on the Shadow > Man logo, but not on the Fedora. > > I think the red-colored Fedora is actually quite nice to look at. This > after taking into consideration people's confusion as to "Red Hat is > dead, now what" attitutdes. > > But show us an alternative and I'm sure we could vote on it. > -- > Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my > http://www.bytebot.net/ > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > From ready at rosa.com Mon Dec 1 15:37:17 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:37:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <3FCB3A85.7040805@virtual1.net> References: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> <3FCAEC52.8030105@rosa.com> <3FCB3A85.7040805@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <3FCB602D.6080501@rosa.com> Can you send that Icon here? Or where can I see it? Does it fit into the overall design system of fedora? Best regards, Marky Goldstein Kreg Steppe wrote: > Marky Goldstein wrote: > >> I would suggest we setup a design database for all icons... >> including themes and relationships... and later voting... >> >> And for the hat in the panel... well, I suggest we need >> something sexy. We even need something unrelated to >> RedHat... >> >> Greets, >> Marky >> >> >> Fernando Fernandez wrote: >> >>> I was thinking of making an alternate icon for myself to replace "the >>> hat on the panel". Maybe something slightly different to reflect >>> fedora. >>> I was considering making the hat's brim more angular and putting a >>> feather in the black band. >>> WHat does everyone think about this? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >>> Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >>> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list >>> >>> >> >> > I personally like the hat (hat == fedora). However I wouldn't mind > seeing the 'F' favicon on http://fedora.redhat.com in a larger version > for the menu. > > Kreg > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: CEO, Product & Strategy R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From darksyntax at 6535137hfc181.tampabay.rr.com Mon Dec 1 18:31:33 2003 From: darksyntax at 6535137hfc181.tampabay.rr.com (Fernando Fernandez) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:31:33 -0500 Subject: a sketch In-Reply-To: <20031201170006.24115.7604.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> References: <20031201170006.24115.7604.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1070303493.4972.0.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> heres a sketch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: hat.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3855 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Dec 1 18:47:23 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:47:23 -0400 Subject: a sketch In-Reply-To: <1070303493.4972.0.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> References: <20031201170006.24115.7604.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070303493.4972.0.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FCB8CBB.8080603@silverorange.com> Fernando Fernandez wrote: > heres a sketch Think you might be getting a bit ahead of things - adding a new icon to the "start" button would effectively introduce a new logo for Fedora. While it can't hurt to experiment with some ideas, we should either come up with a non-branded icon for that control (a green 'go' button/light/arrow?) or agree that we need a logo. I like the idea of getting branding out of areas like that (start button, throbber, etc.). People don't need to be reminded every day that they are using Fedora - they know (and if they don't, then we must be doing well). Steven Garrity From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Mon Dec 1 19:32:50 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:32:50 -0500 Subject: a sketch In-Reply-To: <3FCB8CBB.8080603@silverorange.com> References: <20031201170006.24115.7604.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070303493.4972.0.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> <3FCB8CBB.8080603@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1070307170.2824.31.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Here....... try this one. http://linux.bius.net/images/go-f.png The slogan can be "Go 'F' that other OS!" Hehehehehe ;-) Seriously...... I never use the Main Menu on the panel..... but the users of the other OS are familiar with the concept of "go" and "start", etc. Could just as easily contain the "F" in the Fedora font. (If I could ever find out what the font actually is.... anyone? anyone? Bueller?) Jon On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 13:47, Steven Garrity wrote: > Fernando Fernandez wrote: > > heres a sketch > > Think you might be getting a bit ahead of things - adding a new icon to > the "start" button would effectively introduce a new logo for Fedora. > While it can't hurt to experiment with some ideas, we should either come > up with a non-branded icon for that control (a green 'go' > button/light/arrow?) or agree that we need a logo. > > I like the idea of getting branding out of areas like that (start > button, throbber, etc.). People don't need to be reminded every day that > they are using Fedora - they know (and if they don't, then we must be > doing well). > > Steven Garrity > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jon W. Bius Online Services Manager The Fayetteville (NC) Observer 910-486-3575 biusj at fayettevillenc.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From occy at occy.net Mon Dec 1 19:43:16 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:43:16 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? Message-ID: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> Hey all, I've recently noticed a few people tossing URL's out here and there for potential graphics. I certainly hope there is some sort of approval process that makes sure only tasteful and professional graphics and artwork make it's way into Fedora. There are other distro's, I won't name names, that include just terrible graphics and look awful. Redhat, and now Fedora, is a really nice professionally looking disto, and I'm sure this is mostly because of Garrett. Is there going to be some sort of committee that approves things? If so, I would love to be on it. If not, what is the process in which things could or could not be incorporated. I think this needs to get detailed and presented so everyone will know where things stand. I would hate to think that since we are opening things up, the the quality standard is going to go down. Trae -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ From occy at occy.net Mon Dec 1 19:55:53 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:55:53 -0500 Subject: Bluesquared... (not finished yet) Message-ID: <1070308552.14588.38.camel@airwaves> Hey gang, I wanted to also put this out there... I worked for a wee bit on trying to get Bluecurved to be squared. I've fixed the corners, and simply need someone *cough*garrett*cough* who is a metacity theme God to tell me how to do the buttons. You can see a partially implemented version of it here: http://occy.net/tmp/roundbuttons-BAD.png I actually removed the round part of the buttons until I can get it fixed, you can download what I've done so far here: http://occy.net/tmp/bs.tar.gz Which will result in something looking like this: http://mccombs.nu/gallery/screenshots/nov_21_2003_ss Here is what I hope it will look like in the end: http://occy.net/tmp/bs.png Which, the above, is essentially a mockup, since I've not been able to figure it out yet. I would like to make a motion that the final "Bluesquared" theme, be a part of Fedora. So you'd have a choice of having the rounded corners, or the squared off corners. I am not interested in having any credit for this work that I've done, since it's only 0.0000001%(or much less) of any of the work that's even gone into the theme making. I simply want to have a really cool squared version of "Bluecurve". :) That is all... Trae -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ From garrett at redhat.com Mon Dec 1 21:55:53 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:55:53 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> Trae McCombs wrote: >Hey all, >I've recently noticed a few people tossing URL's out here and there for >potential graphics. I certainly hope there is some sort of approval >process that makes sure only tasteful and professional graphics and >artwork make it's way into Fedora. > >There are other distro's, I won't name names, that include just terrible >graphics and look awful. Redhat, and now Fedora, is a really nice >professionally looking disto, and I'm sure this is mostly because of >Garrett. > >Is there going to be some sort of committee that approves things? If >so, I would love to be on it. If not, what is the process in which >things could or could not be incorporated. I think this needs to get >detailed and presented so everyone will know where things stand. I >would hate to think that since we are opening things up, the the quality >standard is going to go down. > > For the time being, there will be no committee, but I will most likely be bouncing concepts and artwork off of selected individuals. This group of people will mostly consist of those this list who choose to speak up and other trusted individuals, including contributors. Garrett From garrett at redhat.com Mon Dec 1 21:58:03 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:58:03 -0500 Subject: a sketch In-Reply-To: <1070307170.2824.31.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> References: <20031201170006.24115.7604.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1070303493.4972.0.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> <3FCB8CBB.8080603@silverorange.com> <1070307170.2824.31.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Message-ID: <3FCBB96B.2030908@redhat.com> Jon W. Bius wrote: > Seriously...... I never use the Main Menu on the panel..... but the > users of the other OS are familiar with the concept of "go" and > "start", etc. I use it to start apps on my system that aren't shortcut icons on my panel. It's easy enough to add the icons to the panel (think "terminal") if they're going to be in use often enough. > Could just as easily contain the "F" in the Fedora font. Similar to the Fedora website's favicon? > (If I could ever find out what the font actually is.... anyone? > anyone? Bueller?) It's a somewhat tweaked version of Myriad Bold Italic with modified kerning and tweaked "F" and "d" characters. I've mentioned it elsewhere before, but it's probably in an email or two somewhere in the deluge of other mailing list emails (probably in fedora-list or fedora-devel-list). The logos (for both Fedora Core and Fedora Project) are available on my people page directory. Fedora artwork: http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/artwork/Fedora/ Fedora logos: http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedora-core-logo.ai http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedora-project-logo.ai Garrett From ready at rosa.com Tue Dec 2 07:13:20 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:13:20 +0100 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> Garrett LeSage wrote: > Trae McCombs wrote: > >> Hey all, >> I've recently noticed a few people tossing URL's out here and there for >> potential graphics. I certainly hope there is some sort of approval >> process that makes sure only tasteful and professional graphics and >> artwork make it's way into Fedora. >> There are other distro's, I won't name names, that include just terrible >> graphics and look awful. Redhat, and now Fedora, is a really nice >> professionally looking disto, and I'm sure this is mostly because of >> Garrett. >> Is there going to be some sort of committee that approves things? If >> so, I would love to be on it. If not, what is the process in which >> things could or could not be incorporated. I think this needs to get >> detailed and presented so everyone will know where things stand. I >> would hate to think that since we are opening things up, the the quality >> standard is going to go down. >> >> > > For the time being, there will be no committee, but I will most likely > be bouncing concepts and artwork off of selected individuals. This > group of people will mostly consist of those this list who choose to > speak up and other trusted individuals, including contributors. > > Garrett > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list I suggest: Let us give the desktop freedom. There is one basic reason why the WWW was so successful. Anybody could develop a site with it's own design. Individuals, Companys, etc. That's why Linux needs a open desktop - also from an art perspective. It will make Linux successful, also in a business world. Anyway, this means we need themes (includinging icons and everything which make up a theme), we need theme design tools (for the artists and design companies, etc.) We need a voting system for the public to vote for the default theme. We need many themes to cover many tastes. We need a theme database to build themes and even vote for single icons. We don't need just single icons, we need "design systems". I am ready to help! Best regards, Marky Goldstein From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Tue Dec 2 14:01:22 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:01:22 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> Message-ID: <1070373682.5601.35.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> I disagree to a point. I do agree that having a very customizable desktop is a great thing. I don't think I ever used a default setup in Windows, simply because I enjoyed downloading themes. I still have an XP box for gaming, and I use a product (don't recall it's name) that gives the desktop a totally different look. I've probably downloaded 50 themes for it. However, I think what makes Windows themes so popular is they are add-ons, not part of the development process. Encouraging community supported add-on sites could fill that role by providing those items, sort of like kde-look.org does. A site that filled that role could have documentation for how to create themes, as well as simple rules for submitting things. The public would vote the best themes simply by downloading them. Yet it gives room for themes that maybe 5 people find valid, even if the rest of us don't really need it. I think it would be cumbersome to both the Fedora development folks *and* theme designers to tie the two together through voting, etc. Again, looking at the Windows model, the 98/XP developers there went for the "90% market"- the group of people who never change anything and have no desire to. (I'm basing that number on my own observations.) This left a very wide open niche for other developers to fill to appeal to the 10% who wanted to break out of the box. I think that leaving the two separate will allow for both to focus on their respective goals. Design by committee will slow down what I believe is planned to be a brisk development pace for the Fedora team. And having a voting system (or similar model) to determine what is included will by design *always* leave someone in the cold. Maybe what is needed is for the community of Fedora users to step up and start a theme site for Fedora (or something along those lines). If the developers see a strong showing from that group outside of their development work, they would be more likely to include links and tie-ins with that work, which would accomplish what you are suggesting from a user standpoint, and still free the Fedora Core developers to pursue the best product for the "90%" crowd. And they would have the option of later including work that proved to be really popular in Fedora Core releases. Again- look at the existing successes with KDE and Gnome that have taken off simply from user popularity- not distribution or even desktop "push". And as you pointed out, what makes the web (and by extension computing) so popular is it's absolute inclusiveness. If a "www.fedora-themes.org" (or whatever) becomes a popular, well trafficked and active site that anyone is free to submit work to, then a year from now, the fact that users download theme "x" 90% of the time will tell the Fedora developers "hey- you need to look at this". If something like that doesn't take off, they're not encumbered with a few people trying to vote on whether icon "y" should be blue or green. And in either case, that group of 5 users who want a Jimi Hendrix/Darth Vader theme in ancient sanskrit can still have that, too. Jon On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 02:13, Marky Goldstein wrote: > I suggest: > Let us give the desktop freedom. > There is one basic reason why the WWW was so successful. Anybody could > develop a site with it's own design. Individuals, Companys, etc. > That's why Linux needs a open desktop - also from an art perspective. It > will make Linux successful, also in a business world. > Anyway, this means we need themes (includinging icons and everything > which make up a theme), we need theme design tools (for the artists and > design companies, etc.) > We need a voting system for the public to vote for the default theme. > We need many themes to cover many tastes. > We need a theme database to build themes and even vote for single icons. > We don't need just single icons, we need "design systems". > I am ready to help! > Best regards, > Marky Goldstein > > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jon W. Bius Online Services Manager The Fayetteville (NC) Observer 910-486-3575 biusj at fayettevillenc.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julo at altern.org Tue Dec 2 14:21:43 2003 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:21:43 +0000 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070373682.5601.35.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> <1070373682.5601.35.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Message-ID: <1070374902.5720.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> > And as you pointed out, what makes the web (and by extension > computing) so popular is it's absolute inclusiveness. If a > "www.fedora-themes.org" (or whatever) becomes a popular, well > trafficked and active site that anyone is free to submit work to, then > a year from now, the fact that users download theme "x" 90% of the > time will tell the Fedora developers "hey- you need to look at this". > If something like that doesn't take off, they're not encumbered with a > few people trying to vote on whether icon "y" should be blue or green. > And in either case, that group of 5 users who want a Jimi > Hendrix/Darth Vader theme in ancient sanskrit can still have that, > too. > IMO, what is needed is a tool to easily create cross-desktop bitmap themes (icon themes, GTK/XUL/QT widget styles and Metacity themes all in one tool), and a website to browse/download install them easily (as Fedora RPMs). > -- Julien Olivier From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Tue Dec 2 14:45:27 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:45:27 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070374902.5720.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> <1070373682.5601.35.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> <1070374902.5720.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1070376327.2488.29.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Exactly. It's really something that falls outside of any single distro's sphere..... again, KDE-Look is a good model of a site that eases the process and has a strong community. But there is a need for an easier way to really have the "after-market" theme process take off. Unfortunately, it's easier to find ideas than talented developers. I wish I knew how to do something like that in a reasonable amount of time. Anyone know of any projects attempting something like this? Might be a good way to contribute to that AND Fedora, in a somewhat roundabout way. Jon On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 09:21, Julien Olivier wrote: > IMO, what is needed is a tool to easily create cross-desktop bitmap > themes (icon themes, GTK/XUL/QT widget styles and Metacity themes all in > one tool), and a website to browse/download install them easily (as > Fedora RPMs). > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jon W. Bius Online Services Manager The Fayetteville (NC) Observer 910-486-3575 biusj at fayettevillenc.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garrett at redhat.com Tue Dec 2 17:18:41 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:18:41 -0500 Subject: SVG Fedora logos Message-ID: <3FCCC971.7010504@redhat.com> Hey, I have exported the Fedora Project and Fedora Core logos to SVG: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedora-project-logo.svg http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedora-core-logo.svg With the Fedora Core logo, I had to drop the subtle dropshadow. Other than this one change, it should be exactly the same. Having SVG versions of the logos should help out in case anyone (without Illustrator) may want to make their own backgrounds or would wish to suggest anything for submission to the project with the Fedora brand. Garrett From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Tue Dec 2 22:15:58 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:15:58 -0500 Subject: SVG Fedora logos In-Reply-To: <3FCCC971.7010504@redhat.com> References: <3FCCC971.7010504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1070403358.2488.55.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> For anyone who is confused by Illustrator and is slightly embarrassed to say SodiPodi, I've exported those images to XCF format. http://linux.bius.net/index.php?section=Fedora&data=fedora Jon On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 12:18, Garrett LeSage wrote: > Hey, > > I have exported the Fedora Project and Fedora Core logos to SVG: > http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedora-project-logo.svg > http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedora-core-logo.svg > > With the Fedora Core logo, I had to drop the subtle dropshadow. Other > than this one change, it should be exactly the same. > > Having SVG versions of the logos should help out in case anyone (without > Illustrator) may want to make their own backgrounds or would wish to > suggest anything for submission to the project with the Fedora brand. > > Garrett > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jon W. Bius Online Services Manager The Fayetteville (NC) Observer 910-486-3575 biusj at fayettevillenc.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From froZenX at fusionphp.net Tue Dec 2 22:39:22 2003 From: froZenX at fusionphp.net (froZenX) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:39:22 -0600 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: I really like the mockup you made for BlueCurve, its really great to look at after using the UI 1 billion times booting up and on (not that I am bored of BC, but a little difference is a good thing ;) ) - agr3kko Web Designer and Programmer: PS8, IR8, ILLUS11, FHMX, BRYCE, 3DSMAX XML, PHP, HTML, CSS, VC++. http://shirakumo.vze.com http://fusionphp.net -----Original Message----- From: fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Trae McCombs Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 1:43 PM To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? Hey all, I've recently noticed a few people tossing URL's out here and there for potential graphics. I certainly hope there is some sort of approval process that makes sure only tasteful and professional graphics and artwork make it's way into Fedora. There are other distro's, I won't name names, that include just terrible graphics and look awful. Redhat, and now Fedora, is a really nice professionally looking disto, and I'm sure this is mostly because of Garrett. Is there going to be some sort of committee that approves things? If so, I would love to be on it. If not, what is the process in which things could or could not be incorporated. I think this needs to get detailed and presented so everyone will know where things stand. I would hate to think that since we are opening things up, the the quality standard is going to go down. Trae -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From themadtux at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 3 00:38:45 2003 From: themadtux at tampabay.rr.com (jason pratt) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:38:45 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> Message-ID: <1070411924.15240.16.camel@vlad> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 02:13, Marky Goldstein wrote: > Anyway, this means we need themes (includinging icons and everything > which make up a theme), we need theme design tools (for the artists and > design companies, etc.) I'm a quiet observer, but I do agree. There needs to be tools for helping in the creation of themes for both gnome and kde. I for one would love to see GUI based tools to helps with themeing from themeing the GDM to creating a window decoration and widget designer. Something like what the windows world has in SkinStudio (http://www.stardock.com/products/skinstudio/) for windowblinds and logonstudio (http://www.stardock.com/products/logonstudio/) for creating logon screen which is equal to the GDM. These type of tools help in the creation of such things. Right now I'm weeding thru the xml and learning it somewhat by trying to create a customized GDM that resembles the simplistic and elegant grey boot screen. Once again a graphical tool to help place the items where I want them etc. Would be out of this world. This is just a thought. I know you folks have never seen me before but thought I'd partake in this little conversation. Thanks.. -- Jason Pratt Linux User # 334419 Fedora Core 1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From themadtux at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 3 00:44:45 2003 From: themadtux at tampabay.rr.com (jason pratt) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:44:45 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070373682.5601.35.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> <1070373682.5601.35.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Message-ID: <1070412285.15240.20.camel@vlad> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 09:01, Jon W. Bius wrote: > However, I think what makes Windows themes so popular is they are > add-ons, not part of the development process. Encouraging community > supported add-on sites could fill that role by providing those items, > sort of like kde-look.org does. A site that filled that role could > have documentation for how to create themes, as well as simple rules > for submitting things. The public would vote the best themes simply by > downloading them. Yet it gives room for themes that maybe 5 people > find valid, even if the rest of us don't really need it. well gnome is supposed to have a repository for theme and it's called art.gnome.org, but my God it hasn't been updated in quite a while. Which is a bummer. gnome really needs a high class site like "wincustomize.com". kde-look.org is updated almost daily. why can't art.gnome.org get the same treatment. we need a gnomecustomize.org ;) -- Jason Pratt Linux User # 334419 Fedora Core 1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From themadtux at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 3 00:49:52 2003 From: themadtux at tampabay.rr.com (jason pratt) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:49:52 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070412592.15240.26.camel@vlad> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 17:39, froZenX wrote: > I really like the mockup you made for BlueCurve, its really great to look at > after using the UI 1 billion times booting up and on (not that I am bored of > BC, but a little difference is a good thing ;) ) > i agree as well.. the subtle differences are very nice. Bluesquared needs to be finished and polished :) Let's see it released. -- Jason Pratt Linux User # 334419 Fedora Core 1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From themadtux at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 3 00:48:57 2003 From: themadtux at tampabay.rr.com (jason pratt) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:48:57 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070376327.2488.29.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> <1070373682.5601.35.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> <1070374902.5720.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1070376327.2488.29.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Message-ID: <1070412537.15240.24.camel@vlad> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 09:45, Jon W. Bius wrote: > Exactly. It's really something that falls outside of any single > distro's sphere..... again, KDE-Look is a good model of a site that > eases the process and has a strong community. But there is a need for > an easier way to really have the "after-market" theme process take > off. > > Unfortunately, it's easier to find ideas than talented developers. I > wish I knew how to do something like that in a reasonable amount of > time. > > Anyone know of any projects attempting something like this? Might be a > good way to contribute to that AND Fedora, in a somewhat roundabout > way. hmm.. i'm ok at webdesign :) I've done a few in my time. I'm good with photoshop, I'm sorry I can't use gimp, I just can't get used to it's interface. if we had someone to do php stuff and javascript, we could easily bypass kde-look.org. ;) -- Jason Pratt Linux User # 334419 Fedora Core 1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hp at redhat.com Wed Dec 3 00:51:28 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:51:28 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 14:43, Trae McCombs wrote: > Is there going to be some sort of committee that approves things? I tend to say there's a committee with one person on it, namely Garrett ;-) Code surely suffers from design by committee, but graphics seem to suffer even more. Not to say Fedora Extras especially can't contain all kinds of alternate themes and backgrounds but I think the Fedora default appearance really benefits from a quality dictatorship. The point is to be sure the defaults stay consistent and attractive, I don't think there's any need to suppress alternate themes, though I'd say the default install should try to keep a nice sane set of choices that appeal to a variety of people. Havoc From stevelist at silverorange.com Wed Dec 3 01:11:49 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:11:49 -0400 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FCD3855.2030306@silverorange.com> Havoc Pennington wrote: > I tend to say there's a committee with one person on it, > namely Garrett ;-) As long as the work remains at this caliber, this is a great idea. The project clearly benefits from the consistency gained from having a clear graphics/visual leader. > Code surely suffers from design by committee, but graphics seem to > suffer even more. Agreed. > The point is to be sure the defaults stay consistent and attractive, I > don't think there's any need to suppress alternate themes, though I'd > say the default install should try to keep a nice sane set of choices > that appeal to a variety of people. Also agreed. Customization can be ok, but good defaults are an order of magnitude more important. Keep up the good work, Steven Garrity steven at actsofvolition.com From themadtux at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 3 01:31:05 2003 From: themadtux at tampabay.rr.com (jason pratt) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:31:05 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <3FCD3855.2030306@silverorange.com> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FCD3855.2030306@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1070415065.15240.29.camel@vlad> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 20:11, Steven Garrity wrote: > > The point is to be sure the defaults stay consistent and attractive, I > > don't think there's any need to suppress alternate themes, though I'd > > say the default install should try to keep a nice sane set of choices > > that appeal to a variety of people. > > Also agreed. Customization can be ok, but good defaults are an order of > magnitude more important. > I'd have to agree as well. the default visuals are elegant and extremely professional! it's shouldn't change at all. this is one of the reasons i switched to gnome from kde. KDE is too shall we say "anime" looking, cartoony etc. GNOME is very elegant and the default theme for RH and Fedora are the best around. -- Jason Pratt Linux User # 334419 Fedora Core 1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From occy at occy.net Wed Dec 3 02:05:18 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:05:18 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1070417118.19918.15.camel@airwaves> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 19:51, Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 14:43, Trae McCombs wrote: > > Is there going to be some sort of committee that approves things? > > I tend to say there's a committee with one person on it, namely Garrett > ;-) > Good! > Code surely suffers from design by committee, but graphics seem to > suffer even more. > I more than concur. > Not to say Fedora Extras especially can't contain all kinds of alternate > themes and backgrounds but I think the Fedora default appearance really > benefits from a quality dictatorship. This should still be a limited contribution so as not to take up too much space. > The point is to be sure the defaults stay consistent and attractive, I > don't think there's any need to suppress alternate themes, though I'd > say the default install should try to keep a nice sane set of choices > that appeal to a variety of people. You took the words right out of my mouth. There is a BIG difference here where people are starting to get all excited and talk about themes and what-not. Fedora, or any distro for that matter, should NEVER be a theme repository. There are way too many different look and feels out there, and to try and include a smattering of all of them would take up tons of space; space on iso's that would be better spent on high-quality applications. The main thing we need to concentrate on, and TBH, Garrett has most of this pegged out 99.999%, is the default look for Fedora. I think there are a few minor tweaks here and there that need to take place, but over all, Fedora has a great look and feel that rivals, if not beats, all other desktops. I even enjoy using it much more than MacOSX. So again, let's not waste time, and bandwidth on this list talking about themes, but more or less spend time on tweaking, and doing ever-so-slight modifications to further enhance the great work that Garrett has already done. Furthermore, keep in mind that any graphics that get accepted should be of the highest quality. Just because someone fires up Gimp and creates a logo, and they, and their friends, happen to think it's cool, doesn't mean it would be the best fit for Fedora. There are tons of artists out there who have different tastes and styles, and when it comes to consistency, we need to stay with the current look and feel no matter if it's Icons, Backgrounds, Window Borders, Boot-up screens, or whatever. I personally know Garrett, and know he's a really nice guy, but he's going to have to put his foot down on some of these submissions. Again, that has nothing to do with an artists ability, but more or less his, Garrett's, knowledge and understanding of what style fits better with the current Fedora overall look and feel. Thanks for your time, Trae -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From occy at occy.net Wed Dec 3 02:10:16 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:10:16 -0500 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070417415.19918.20.camel@airwaves> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 17:39, froZenX wrote: > I really like the mockup you made for BlueCurve, its really great to look at > after using the UI 1 billion times booting up and on (not that I am bored of > BC, but a little difference is a good thing ;) ) Thanks bunches... Again though, what I have for download is just a hack and should be considered as just that. The final version should simply be the Bluecurved theme with squared off edges and buttons. I wouldn't change a thing from the default Bluecurved on the "official" Bluesquared other than said curves. If of course, there ever is an official Bluesquared. :) (*crossing fingers*) Trae -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From bgcboyus at comcast.net Wed Dec 3 08:53:22 2003 From: bgcboyus at comcast.net (R. Allen Sanford) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:53:22 -0600 Subject: deadlock Message-ID: <3FCDA482.7020807@comcast.net> Hello I am running ATI 9200 and there seems to be a problem running screen saver for prolonged periods, the screen seems to freeze which causes the entire system to deadlock. Another note is that it only happens when the screen saver runs for prolonged periods. Not sure which package causes the dealock yet. The problem occurs everytime the screen saver runs for prolonged periods. From ready at rosa.com Wed Dec 3 05:56:51 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 06:56:51 +0100 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070411924.15240.16.camel@vlad> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <3FCBB8E9.1050808@redhat.com> <3FCC3B90.7020004@rosa.com> <1070411924.15240.16.camel@vlad> Message-ID: <3FCD7B23.2030909@rosa.com> Comment: It is not the one with the best graphics who wins. It's the one with the best visual and artistics systematics who can deliver more styles in less time. It's about a revolutionary system that is needed. I still want to push the point, that having a core designer is good. But having a open design system is more powerful. We could also throw up some serious money, invite 10 GUI design companies and choose the best design. That's how you do this the professional way. Neither of these ways is excluding the other, I guess. Apple is still the one to beat ;-> Go and have a look at Panter... From a business point of view, one needs to imitate Win XP... But maybe freedom is still the way to go... Best regards, Marky jason pratt wrote: >On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 02:13, Marky Goldstein wrote: > > > >>Anyway, this means we need themes (includinging icons and everything >>which make up a theme), we need theme design tools (for the artists and >>design companies, etc.) >> >> > >I'm a quiet observer, but I do agree. There needs to be tools for >helping in the creation of themes for both gnome and kde. I for one >would love to see GUI based tools to helps with themeing from themeing >the GDM to creating a window decoration and widget designer. Something >like what the windows world has in SkinStudio >(http://www.stardock.com/products/skinstudio/) for windowblinds and >logonstudio (http://www.stardock.com/products/logonstudio/) for creating >logon screen which is equal to the GDM. These type of tools help in the >creation of such things. Right now I'm weeding thru the xml and learning >it somewhat by trying to create a customized GDM that resembles the >simplistic and elegant grey boot screen. Once again a graphical tool to >help place the items where I want them etc. Would be out of this world. > >This is just a thought. I know you folks have never seen me before but >thought I'd partake in this little conversation. > >Thanks.. > > -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: CEO, Product & Strategy R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From ready at rosa.com Wed Dec 3 06:09:32 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 07:09:32 +0100 Subject: Desktop Graphics Approval committee? In-Reply-To: <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1070307796.14588.28.camel@airwaves> <1070412688.9983.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FCD7E1C.4020401@rosa.com> I agree that one theme should be done by one creative leader. A dozen themes are better than one theme. Let the race begin. Freedom is what makes Linux the winner. See the difference. Release the marketing budgets of MTV. Give up control. Havoc Pennington wrote: >On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 14:43, Trae McCombs wrote: > > >>Is there going to be some sort of committee that approves things? >> >> > >I tend to say there's a committee with one person on it, namely Garrett >;-) > >Code surely suffers from design by committee, but graphics seem to >suffer even more. > >Not to say Fedora Extras especially can't contain all kinds of alternate >themes and backgrounds but I think the Fedora default appearance really >benefits from a quality dictatorship. > >The point is to be sure the defaults stay consistent and attractive, I >don't think there's any need to suppress alternate themes, though I'd >say the default install should try to keep a nice sane set of choices >that appeal to a variety of people. > >Havoc > > > >-- >Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: CEO, Product & Strategy R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From hp at redhat.com Wed Dec 3 23:26:56 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:26:56 -0500 Subject: deadlock In-Reply-To: <3FCDA482.7020807@comcast.net> References: <3FCDA482.7020807@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1070494016.13029.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 03:53, R. Allen Sanford wrote: > Hello I am running ATI 9200 and there seems to be a problem running > screen saver for prolonged periods, the screen seems to freeze which > causes the entire system to deadlock. Another note is that it only > happens when the screen saver runs for prolonged periods. Not sure which > package causes the dealock yet. The problem occurs everytime the screen > saver runs for prolonged periods. > Most likely one of the screensavers triggers an X bug; you could see if disabling the GL-based screensavers makes a difference. Havoc From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Dec 4 15:48:50 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:48:50 -0500 Subject: Backgrounds Message-ID: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> Here are a couple of backgrounds that I would like to share for possible inclusion. http://www.spyndle.com/wallpapers/ old_paint.jpg is the side of an abandoned train car (still on the tracks) old_paint2.jpg is another of the train... not sure about it though. the last DSCN* is a window sill on a building downtown where I live. Kreg From tadej.janez at tadej.hicsalta.si Thu Dec 4 16:04:35 2003 From: tadej.janez at tadej.hicsalta.si (Tadej =?iso-8859-2?Q?Jane=BE?=) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:04:35 +0100 Subject: Backgrounds In-Reply-To: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> References: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <1070553875.6357.2.camel@n800v-severn2> On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 16:48, Kreg Steppe wrote: > Here are a couple of backgrounds that I would like to share for possible > inclusion. > > http://www.spyndle.com/wallpapers/ > > old_paint.jpg is the side of an abandoned train car (still on the tracks) > old_paint2.jpg is another of the train... not sure about it though. > > the last DSCN* is a window sill on a building downtown where I live. > > Kreg > I don't want to offend you, but why should Fedora include those pictures? Is there anything special about them I can't see? Just MHO though. Later, Tadej From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Dec 4 16:14:12 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 11:14:12 -0500 Subject: Backgrounds In-Reply-To: <1070553875.6357.2.camel@n800v-severn2> References: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> <1070553875.6357.2.camel@n800v-severn2> Message-ID: <3FCF5D54.8040300@virtual1.net> Tadej Jane? wrote: > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 16:48, Kreg Steppe wrote: > >>Here are a couple of backgrounds that I would like to share for possible >>inclusion. >> >>http://www.spyndle.com/wallpapers/ >> >>old_paint.jpg is the side of an abandoned train car (still on the tracks) >>old_paint2.jpg is another of the train... not sure about it though. >> >>the last DSCN* is a window sill on a building downtown where I live. >> >>Kreg >> > > > I don't want to offend you, but why should Fedora include those > pictures? > > Is there anything special about them I can't see? > > Just MHO though. > > Later, > > Tadej > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list Oh Man I am Offended! (jk) I was just throwing out some pictures that I took that worked as backgrounds on my machine. There are several other backgrounds included with Fedora that are just pictures (really good ones too). So I thought I would share. Kreg From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Dec 4 16:24:46 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:24:46 -0400 Subject: Backgrounds In-Reply-To: <1070553875.6357.2.camel@n800v-severn2> References: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> <1070553875.6357.2.camel@n800v-severn2> Message-ID: <3FCF5FCE.6010808@silverorange.com> > I don't want to offend you, but why should Fedora include those > pictures? They are quick nice photos, but I second the question. I'm not sure why there is so much talk of submitting desktop pictures. I think it makes sense for a few professional and simple good background photos to be included by default, but beyond that, people can set their own background. Nice photos though. Steven Garrity From tadej.janez at tadej.hicsalta.si Thu Dec 4 16:32:42 2003 From: tadej.janez at tadej.hicsalta.si (Tadej =?iso-8859-2?Q?Jane=BE?=) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:32:42 +0100 Subject: Backgrounds In-Reply-To: <3FCF5D54.8040300@virtual1.net> References: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> <1070553875.6357.2.camel@n800v-severn2> <3FCF5D54.8040300@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <1070555562.6357.8.camel@n800v-severn2> On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 17:14, Kreg Steppe wrote: > Oh Man I am Offended! (jk) That was actually my primary intention! :) > I was just throwing out some pictures that I took that worked as > backgrounds on my machine. There are several other backgrounds included > with Fedora that are just pictures (really good ones too). So I thought > I would share. Again, thanks for sharing! However, I think, being a minimalistic type of a guy, we should only include a very small number of diverse backgrounds (space is a luxury!). Tadej From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Dec 4 16:45:04 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 11:45:04 -0500 Subject: Backgrounds In-Reply-To: <1070555562.6357.8.camel@n800v-severn2> References: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> <1070553875.6357.2.camel@n800v-severn2> <3FCF5D54.8040300@virtual1.net> <1070555562.6357.8.camel@n800v-severn2> Message-ID: <3FCF6490.7000106@virtual1.net> Tadej Jane? wrote: > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 17:14, Kreg Steppe wrote: > >>Oh Man I am Offended! (jk) > > > That was actually my primary intention! :) > > >>I was just throwing out some pictures that I took that worked as >>backgrounds on my machine. There are several other backgrounds included >>with Fedora that are just pictures (really good ones too). So I thought >>I would share. > > > Again, thanks for sharing! > > However, I think, being a minimalistic type of a guy, we should only > include a very small number of diverse backgrounds (space is a luxury!). > > Tadej > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list You are right that it would be silly to have 500mb of backgrounds. Backgrounds are just an easy way to contribute. I just had them, so I thought that I would throw them out there. No Prob. Kreg From mdraghi at prosud.com Fri Dec 5 14:35:50 2003 From: mdraghi at prosud.com (Mariano Draghi) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:35:50 -0300 Subject: BlueCurve Mozilla Theme Message-ID: <3FD097C6.9070605@prosud.com> Hi, I just posted this to the "standard" fedora-list, but later I found this list, which seems much more appropiate. Given the facts that Fedora makes its own builds of Mozilla, and that BlueCurve is the default "look-and-feel" of the distro, it would be very nice if we included the BlueCurve Mozilla theme with the Mozilla RPMs, and make it the default. The theme can be found here: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/gavindi/ I don't know how "official" this theme is (it isn't at MozDev...), but it's complete, works very well, and Mozilla looks much more integrated to Fedora with this. I don't know if this is the right place to make such a sugestion... if it isn't, please, could you be so kind of pointing me to the right place? I really would like if someone in charge of this kind of stuff had a look at it. --- Mariano From AuntieParticle at satx.rr.com Fri Dec 5 18:05:15 2003 From: AuntieParticle at satx.rr.com (AuntieParticle) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:05:15 -0600 Subject: How to change the panel icon? Message-ID: <3FD0C8DB.4040103@satx.rr.com> For some reason when I updated from RH9 to FC1 I lost me Red Hat Icon and now have the Gnome Foot :( I see there is talk about creating a new Icon for this purpose so I am assuming there is some way to change it. I would be happy to go back to the Red Hat for the time being... or anything thing other than the foot. I seem to be able to change all other icons on the panel but that one. Can someone tell me how to change it? Thanks, AP From dawson at fnal.gov Fri Dec 5 19:01:23 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:01:23 -0600 Subject: How to change the panel icon? In-Reply-To: <3FD0C8DB.4040103@satx.rr.com> References: <3FD0C8DB.4040103@satx.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FD0D603.3080607@fnal.gov> AuntieParticle wrote: > For some reason when I updated from RH9 to FC1 I lost me Red Hat Icon > and now have the Gnome Foot :( I see there is talk about creating a new > Icon for this purpose so I am assuming there is some way to change it. I > would be happy to go back to the Red Hat for the time being... or > anything thing other than the foot. I seem to be able to change all > other icons on the panel but that one. Can someone tell me how to change > it? > > Thanks, > AP > I believe it is here /usr/share/pixmaps/redhat-main-menu.png But if you just do a locate redhat-main-menu.png and then change all of the icons you find there until it changes, then that will get the job done as well. Troy -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From behnam at esfahbod.info Fri Dec 5 19:27:07 2003 From: behnam at esfahbod.info (Behnam Esfahbod) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:57:07 +0330 (IRT) Subject: BlueCurve Mozilla Theme In-Reply-To: <3FD097C6.9070605@prosud.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Mariano Draghi wrote: > > Given the facts that Fedora makes its own builds of Mozilla, and that > BlueCurve is the default "look-and-feel" of the distro, it would be very > nice if we included the BlueCurve Mozilla theme with the Mozilla RPMs, > and make it the default. The theme can be found here: > http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/gavindi/ I don't know how "official" > this theme is (it isn't at MozDev...), but it's complete, works very > well, and Mozilla looks much more integrated to Fedora with this. > Yes, it's very sweet! But i think we should change the [M] key on Navigation Toolbar, to something like Nautilus's rotating cyrcles (Fedora's semi-logo); without any border. > > I don't know if this is the right place to make such a sugestion... if > it isn't, please, could you be so kind of pointing me to the right > place? I really would like if someone in charge of this kind of stuff > had a look at it. > I think you're right. ;) regards, -- Behnam Esfahbod ......[ http://esfahbod.info | behnam(a)esfahbod.info ] From garrett at redhat.com Fri Dec 5 20:06:31 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:06:31 -0500 Subject: How to change the panel icon? In-Reply-To: <3FD0C8DB.4040103@satx.rr.com> References: <3FD0C8DB.4040103@satx.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FD0E547.60201@redhat.com> AuntieParticle wrote: > For some reason when I updated from RH9 to FC1 I lost me Red Hat Icon > and now have the Gnome Foot :( I see there is talk about creating a new > Icon for this purpose so I am assuming there is some way to change it. There is no discussion to change the icon. See: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2003-December/msg00415.html Several people have volunteered to contribute alternate hats, some red, some blue, some green, some grey, some black, some purple, some with feathers -- and a few purple ones with feathers of varying colors (yellow, red, white, etc.), too. I've seen many variations... even with a few drawn using XPaint. There isn't a need to change it, however. The red fedora makes sense, as this is, after all, Fedora... and it's a Fedora. So, for the time being, it is what it is. (: (It should probably be customizable, but that's another matter entirely.) Garrett From AuntieParticle at satx.rr.com Fri Dec 5 21:06:43 2003 From: AuntieParticle at satx.rr.com (AuntieParticle) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:06:43 -0600 Subject: How to change the panel icon? In-Reply-To: <3FD0D603.3080607@fnal.gov> References: <3FD0C8DB.4040103@satx.rr.com> <3FD0D603.3080607@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <3FD0F363.1050600@satx.rr.com> Troy Dawson wrote: > > AuntieParticle wrote: > >> For some reason when I updated from RH9 to FC1 I lost me Red Hat Icon >> and now have the Gnome Foot :( I see there is talk about creating a new >> Icon for this purpose so I am assuming there is some way to change it. I >> would be happy to go back to the Red Hat for the time being... or >> anything thing other than the foot. I seem to be able to change all >> other icons on the panel but that one. Can someone tell me how to >> change it? >> >> Thanks, >> AP >> > I believe it is here > /usr/share/pixmaps/redhat-main-menu.png > > But if you just do a > locate redhat-main-menu.png > and then change all of the icons you find there until it changes, then > that will get the job done as well. > > Troy > I think I figured out what happened. I went to the redhat-main-menu.png and it is the same one I used to see on my panel. So, I thought something might have happen to change it to the gnome foot when I changed to a different desktop theme after ungrading to FC1. I changed back to the bluecurve theme and restarted the desktop and my RedHat icon is back. It's just a little odd that I used to switch themes in HR9 all the time and this never happened before. Thanks, AP From AuntieParticle at satx.rr.com Fri Dec 5 21:28:28 2003 From: AuntieParticle at satx.rr.com (AuntieParticle) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:28:28 -0600 Subject: How to change the panel icon? In-Reply-To: <3FD0E547.60201@redhat.com> References: <3FD0C8DB.4040103@satx.rr.com> <3FD0E547.60201@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FD0F87C.1080707@satx.rr.com> Garrett LeSage wrote: > AuntieParticle wrote: > >> For some reason when I updated from RH9 to FC1 I lost me Red Hat Icon >> and now have the Gnome Foot :( I see there is talk about creating a new >> Icon for this purpose so I am assuming there is some way to change it. > > > > There is no discussion to change the icon. See: > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2003-December/msg00415.html This is the message that sent me here... > Several people have volunteered to contribute alternate hats, some > red, some blue, some green, some grey, some black, some purple, some > with feathers -- and a few purple ones with feathers of varying colors > (yellow, red, white, etc.), too. I've seen many variations... even > with a few drawn using XPaint. Red with purple hat band and feather would be nice too.... > There isn't a need to change it, however. The red fedora makes sense, > as this is, after all, Fedora... and it's a Fedora. The only reason I see for changing it would be "just for fun", which I think is sort of a Linus Torvalds* */Linux way of thinking, and I like it :) > > So, for the time being, it is what it is. (: Okay, it a pretty attractive hat. A lot better than the gnome foot, in my opinion. > (It should probably be customizable, but that's another matter entirely.) An easily customizable choice, link the "properties" button when right clicking panel launcher icons would be wonderful.... then we could all have a new hat every week if we wanted it. AP From kjsisco at rcn.com Sat Dec 6 01:31:57 2003 From: kjsisco at rcn.com (kevin) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:31:57 -0500 Subject: Backgrounds References: <3FCF5762.8000204@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <005301c3bb98$be1cafc0$7f4cfea9@Kevin> I personally like the first old_paint. Kevin email: kjsisco at rcn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreg Steppe" To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: Backgrounds > Here are a couple of backgrounds that I would like to share for possible > inclusion. > > http://www.spyndle.com/wallpapers/ > > old_paint.jpg is the side of an abandoned train car (still on the tracks) > old_paint2.jpg is another of the train... not sure about it though. > > the last DSCN* is a window sill on a building downtown where I live. > > Kreg > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Dec 8 01:36:41 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (stevelist at silverorange.com) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:36:41 -0400 Subject: Nitpickin': Flash before/after login screen Message-ID: <1070847401.3fd3d5a98cdc1@secure2.silverorange.com> File under really picky-but-every-detail-counts: Using the default Fedora login/theme/background, right before the login screen show, you see a blank screen with a blue background - then the login screen comes up with the same background, but there is a quick blank/white flash before the login screen. You get the same thing after you submit the login form. Is this just something unique to a particular video card / driver set, or is it something common in all installs? Any ideas why it happens and if there's anything we can do to eliminate it? Thanks, Steven Garrity From occy at occy.net Mon Dec 8 15:46:42 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:46:42 -0500 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 Message-ID: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> Hi all, I was quite upset when FC1 was launched, and the following bug was allowed to permeate through: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 I know this is a gnome problem, but... It really isn't. Here is the question I ask: Is there any one focus mode that's any more important than another? Let's say if sloppy focus were borked, would we still have allowed for a broken Metacity to be shipped in FC1? I highly doubt it. As outlined in the above URL, the problem is the focus method of: Sloppy Focus w/Click to Raise. I'm sure tons of people used this focus method, but were quite perplexed when they could no longer simply click anywhere on a window to raise, and had to actually click on the title bar. At any rate, This is my wish for FC2, to be able to have the focus mode fixed. I have not been able to update my wife's desktop from RH9 to FC1, as she uses this focus mode(so do I) and can't live without it. Thanks for your time, Trae PS. I sent this to this list, as opposed to fedora-devel because it is a desktop issue, not an internals issue. If someone feels this should be directed to fedora-devel, let me know. -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From dawson at fnal.gov Tue Dec 9 14:44:57 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 08:44:57 -0600 Subject: Adding another desktop (ice) Message-ID: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> Hello, What would be involved in trying to get another desktop officially into Fedora? I am thinking of ice, for those people with machines without much memory, or who just wish a lightweight window manager. But I am meaning this question to be more general. So far I have come up with the following list. Well maintained rpm. Bluecurve theme (on by default) Menu structure consistent with other desktops Integration into gdm and/or desktop switcher stamp of approval from Garrett stamp of approval from rest of Fedora governing body Am I missing anything? And on a related note, if one were to get the first 3 or 4 done, is it even feasible that the stamps of approval will happen, or will this be something that will only get into fedora-extra? Troy -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From christoph.wickert at gmx.de Tue Dec 9 15:53:10 2003 From: christoph.wickert at gmx.de (Christoph Wickert) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:53:10 +0100 Subject: Adding another desktop (ice) In-Reply-To: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> References: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <1070985190.29298.13.camel@hal9000.lokales.netz> Am Di, den 09.12.2003 schrieb Troy Dawson um 15:44: > Hello, > What would be involved in trying to get another desktop officially into > Fedora? > > I am thinking of ice, for those people with machines without much > memory, or who just wish a lightweight window manager. But I am meaning > this question to be more general. IMO a very good idea. I have icewm incl truecurve patch, Gnome2 and KDE menus and truecurve theme on an P1 233. Really sweat! > So far I have come up with the following list. > > Well maintained rpm. Do you have one right now? I lost mine somewhere... > Bluecurve theme (on by default) > Menu structure consistent with other desktops > Integration into gdm and/or desktop switcher I think switchdesk will be harder than gdm. I've managed to intergrate it into the command line version, but not info switchdesk-gnome od -kde. > stamp of approval from Garrett > stamp of approval from rest of Fedora governing body > > Am I missing anything? > > And on a related note, if one were to get the first 3 or 4 done, is it > even feasible that the stamps of approval will happen, or will this be > something that will only get into fedora-extra? Good question. I'd like to see it in core, but I'm not sure if it will make it there. Christoph -- Christoph Wickert From dawson at fnal.gov Tue Dec 9 17:12:18 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 11:12:18 -0600 Subject: Adding another desktop (ice) In-Reply-To: <1070985190.29298.13.camel@hal9000.lokales.netz> References: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> <1070985190.29298.13.camel@hal9000.lokales.netz> Message-ID: <3FD60272.50807@fnal.gov> Christoph Wickert wrote: >Am Di, den 09.12.2003 schrieb Troy Dawson um 15:44: > > >>Hello, >>What would be involved in trying to get another desktop officially into >>Fedora? >> >>I am thinking of ice, for those people with machines without much >>memory, or who just wish a lightweight window manager. But I am meaning >>this question to be more general. >> >> > >IMO a very good idea. I have icewm incl truecurve patch, Gnome2 and KDE >menus and truecurve theme on an P1 233. Really sweat! > > > I wouldn't mind the menu files, though maybe if you sent them to me offline so we don't spam the list. I hadn't looked at the truecurve theme until right now, that looks pretty good. >>So far I have come up with the following list. >> >>Well maintained rpm. >> >> > >Do you have one right now? I lost mine somewhere... > > > Well, I just took the one from IceWM http://www.icewm.org/ and took out all of the gnome menu sections. I don't know if it's still the case, but their 1.2.7 version I had to do that or else when I built the rpm's they had a nasty gnome dependancy. Oh, and I also sucked in the themes into the main rpm instead of having it split out. Mine is at ftp://linux.fnal.gov/linux/lts30rolling/SRPMS/icewm-1.2.13-2.LTS30x.src.rpm This was compiled on a recompiled enterpise release, but I believe it should install on fedora without any problem. (I'm having problems with my fedora machine or I'd know) For the most part, their spec file looks quite stable, but as I said, it at least used to build a strange dependancy. Are these the best spec file's (either mine or IceWM's) I don't know. They work, and they don't need much changes going from release to release, but I'd had to read the Fedora documentation better to know if they were good enough. >>Bluecurve theme (on by default) >>Menu structure consistent with other desktops >>Integration into gdm and/or desktop switcher >> >> > >I think switchdesk will be harder than gdm. I've managed to intergrate >it into the command line version, but not info switchdesk-gnome od -kde. > > I haven't looked at the switchdesk code to see how hard it would be. So you are definatly ahead of me on that. >>stamp of approval from Garrett >>stamp of approval from rest of Fedora governing body >> >>Am I missing anything? >> >>And on a related note, if one were to get the first 3 or 4 done, is it >>even feasible that the stamps of approval will happen, or will this be >>something that will only get into fedora-extra? >> >> > >Good question. I'd like to see it in core, but I'm not sure if it will >make it there. > >Christoph > > > -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From garrett at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 00:23:47 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:23:47 -0500 Subject: Adding another desktop (ice) In-Reply-To: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> References: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <3FD66793.2060006@redhat.com> Troy Dawson wrote: > Hello, > What would be involved in trying to get another desktop officially > into Fedora? > > I am thinking of ice, for those people with machines without much > memory, or who just wish a lightweight window manager. But I am > meaning this question to be more general. > So far I have come up with the following list. > > Well maintained rpm. > Bluecurve theme (on by default) > Menu structure consistent with other desktops > Integration into gdm and/or desktop switcher > stamp of approval from Garrett > stamp of approval from rest of Fedora governing body > > Am I missing anything? > > And on a related note, if one were to get the first 3 or 4 done, is it > even feasible that the stamps of approval will happen, or will this be > something that will only get into fedora-extra? This would be a great addition to Fedora-extras or some external yum repository. Concerning its inclusion in the base, Fedora Core, I think Trae McCombs sums it up great in a recent post to fedora-devel-list: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2003-December/msg00248.html Garrett From awol at prepaidonline.com.au Wed Dec 10 01:29:36 2003 From: awol at prepaidonline.com.au (Alex Wallis) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:59:36 +1030 Subject: Proposing fvwm. [was]Re: Adding another desktop (ice) References: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> <3FD66793.2060006@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FD67700.A47C1636@prepaidonline.com.au> Garrett LeSage wrote: > > Troy Dawson wrote: > > > Hello, > > What would be involved in trying to get another desktop officially > > into Fedora? > This would be a great addition to Fedora-extras or some external yum > repository. > > Concerning its inclusion in the base, Fedora Core, I think Trae McCombs > sums it up great in a recent post to fedora-devel-list: > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2003-December/msg00248.html > > Garrett > I hate to be one of those flag waving window manager zealots, but I was set a task to investigate how to get fvwm and fvwm-themes into the new fedora releases by the fvwm developers, as I am an active user, distributor and promoter of both. I was led to believe that to be considered for inclusion a suitable window manager should provide both i18n/internationalisation AND a11y/accessibility support. However, fvwm does provide the former, but documentation on methods of including a11y support appears to be sparse, so we are still investigating this. If anyone can provide some useful url's on a11y we would be most grateful. There already exists rpm packages that install and run fine on fedora although there are a couple of required dependancies for these versions which are also available from the official fvwm rpm download site. Any decent rpm search facility may be used to find these deps as well, such as http://rpm.pbone.net/ The sources for both packages also provide within themselves the ability to create packages in any format including tarballs, rpm's and deb's. I am currently in the process of repackaging both fvwm and fvwm-themes to more correctly comply with fedora requirements, session management, and GPG key signing conditions. It is our hope that perhaps once these adjustments have been made that fvwm and fvwm-themes packages may be considered for inclusion into the fedora extras trees. Please feel free to offer any suggestions that may assist us in this endeavour. Alex -- See http://www.fvwm.org/ and http://fvwm-themes.sourceforge.net/ From dawson at fnal.gov Wed Dec 10 14:31:23 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:31:23 -0600 Subject: Adding another desktop (ice) In-Reply-To: <3FD66793.2060006@redhat.com> References: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> <3FD66793.2060006@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FD72E3B.209@fnal.gov> Garrett LeSage wrote: > Troy Dawson wrote: > >> Hello, >> What would be involved in trying to get another desktop officially >> into Fedora? >> >> I am thinking of ice, for those people with machines without much >> memory, or who just wish a lightweight window manager. But I am >> meaning this question to be more general. >> So far I have come up with the following list. >> >> Well maintained rpm. >> Bluecurve theme (on by default) >> Menu structure consistent with other desktops >> Integration into gdm and/or desktop switcher >> stamp of approval from Garrett >> stamp of approval from rest of Fedora governing body >> >> Am I missing anything? >> >> And on a related note, if one were to get the first 3 or 4 done, is it >> even feasible that the stamps of approval will happen, or will this be >> something that will only get into fedora-extra? > > > > This would be a great addition to Fedora-extras or some external yum > repository. > > Concerning its inclusion in the base, Fedora Core, I think Trae McCombs > sums it up great in a recent post to fedora-devel-list: > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2003-December/msg00248.html > > > Garrett If it's supposed to go in fedora extra's, then I'll go there. Though I do think there should be at least one small, usable, desktop in the core. Basically with Fedora, and RedHat, people have the choice of an extremely heavy desktop, or no usable desktop. Troy -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From julo at altern.org Wed Dec 10 18:06:08 2003 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:06:08 +0000 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora Message-ID: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> Hi Owen Taylor told (on the fedora-devel-list) that the Luxi/Nimbus fonts were the default for aesthetics reasons. I'd like to know what you think are the best fonts for the Fedora desktop. Is it Vera ? Nimbus/Luxi ? Any other free font ? PS: If that's not the right place to ask, just tell me. I posted here because Michael K. Johnson suggested me to open a discussion here. -- Julien Olivier From behdad at cs.toronto.edu Wed Dec 10 18:24:28 2003 From: behdad at cs.toronto.edu (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:24:28 -0500 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora In-Reply-To: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> References: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Julien Olivier wrote: > Hi > > Owen Taylor told (on the fedora-devel-list) that the Luxi/Nimbus fonts > were the default for aesthetics reasons. I'd like to know what you think > are the best fonts for the Fedora desktop. Is it Vera ? Nimbus/Luxi ? > Any other free font ? > > PS: If that's not the right place to ask, just tell me. I posted here > because Michael K. Johnson suggested me to open a discussion here. As they told you on devel list, Bitstream Vera fonts cannot be used as default, because of incomplete list of glyphs. Actually I have asked my brother which is a font guy to have a look at them. behdad From darksyntax at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 10 18:41:21 2003 From: darksyntax at tampabay.rr.com (Fernando Fernandez) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:41:21 -0500 Subject: how bleeding edge will the next fedora release be? In-Reply-To: <20031209170005.14566.82425.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> References: <20031209170005.14566.82425.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071081680.3827.12.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> I think this would be a good topic of discussion. personally I would like to see more beta software included things like: Mozilla 1.6, Gimp version 1.3.23 evolution 1.5, even Garnome instead of gnome. After all that isn't what fedora is about being the tip of the sword. I'd like to hear the opinions of others on this subject. ------------------------------------ Cpt. Fernando Fernandez -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: rcpt.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2538 bytes Desc: not available URL: From julo at altern.org Wed Dec 10 18:57:23 2003 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:57:23 +0000 Subject: how bleeding edge will the next fedora release be? In-Reply-To: <1071081680.3827.12.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> References: <20031209170005.14566.82425.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1071081680.3827.12.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <1071082643.5033.20.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 18:41, Fernando Fernandez wrote: > I think this would be a good topic of discussion. personally I would > like to see more beta software included things like: Mozilla 1.6, Gimp > version 1.3.23 evolution 1.5, even Garnome instead of gnome. After all > that isn't what fedora is about being the tip of the sword. I'd like > to hear the opinions of others on this subject. > Ouch ! I really hope Fedora will *not* become a Beta distribution. From what I have understood, it's a fast-evolving distribution, but not the point of being a crash-test. Having the latest *stable* version of each package is enough for me. Having the latest *beta* is too much though. -- Julien Olivier From julo at altern.org Wed Dec 10 19:05:01 2003 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:05:01 +0000 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1071083101.5033.30.camel@localhost> > As they told you on devel list, Bitstream Vera fonts cannot be > used as default, because of incomplete list of glyphs. Actually > I have asked my brother which is a font guy to have a look at > them. I thought there was a solution to this problem as Owen said that he hadn't tried to solve this because he preferred the Luxi/Nimbus combination. However, if there is no acceptable solution to the coverage problem, it's not worth discussing it. -- Julien Olivier From garrett at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 19:12:24 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:12:24 -0500 Subject: how bleeding edge will the next fedora release be? In-Reply-To: <1071082643.5033.20.camel@localhost> References: <20031209170005.14566.82425.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1071081680.3827.12.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> <1071082643.5033.20.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3FD77018.7080805@redhat.com> Julien Olivier wrote: >On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 18:41, Fernando Fernandez wrote: > > >>I think this would be a good topic of discussion. personally I would >>like to see more beta software included things like: Mozilla 1.6, Gimp >>version 1.3.23 evolution 1.5, even Garnome instead of gnome. After all >>that isn't what fedora is about being the tip of the sword. I'd like >>to hear the opinions of others on this subject. >> >> > >Ouch ! I really hope Fedora will *not* become a Beta distribution. From >what I have understood, it's a fast-evolving distribution, but not the >point of being a crash-test. > >Having the latest *stable* version of each package is enough for me. >Having the latest *beta* is too much though. > > Although, it would be nice to have Gimp 1.3.x in Fedora Core... (: It is in Fedora Extras/Testing as "gimp2", however. http://www.fedora.us/pkglists/fedora-1-testing.html Garrett From laurent at guerby.net Wed Dec 10 19:28:49 2003 From: laurent at guerby.net (Laurent GUERBY) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:28:49 +0100 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora In-Reply-To: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> References: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1071084528.8102.208.camel@pc> On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 19:06, Julien Olivier wrote: > Hi > > Owen Taylor told (on the fedora-devel-list) that the Luxi/Nimbus fonts > were the default for aesthetics reasons. I'd like to know what you think > are the best fonts for the Fedora desktop. Is it Vera ? Nimbus/Luxi ? > Any other free font ? I have a 17" 1280x1024 LCD display (Hyundai Q17), I use size 9 Bitstream Vera Sans with subpixel smoothing, everything else looks worse (and I've tried lots of fonts, that's easy now that most apps just redraw themselves when you click :). At size 9 Sans on my screen, I don't honestly see how anyone could say Nimbus or Luxi look better, just look at the "e" letter, but may be something is wrong with my settings. Laurent From julo at altern.org Wed Dec 10 19:41:47 2003 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:41:47 +0000 Subject: how bleeding edge will the next fedora release be? In-Reply-To: <3FD77018.7080805@redhat.com> References: <20031209170005.14566.82425.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1071081680.3827.12.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> <1071082643.5033.20.camel@localhost> <3FD77018.7080805@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071085307.4884.10.camel@localhost> > Although, it would be nice to have Gimp 1.3.x in Fedora Core... (: > > It is in Fedora Extras/Testing as "gimp2", however. > http://www.fedora.us/pkglists/fedora-1-testing.html To be honest, GIMP-1.3 is the only beta piece of software I run on my Fedora because the advantage of having a great GTK2 GIMP are more important to me than have a stable GTK1 GIMP. But that's the only exception. And even in that case, adding a line in yum.conf and running "yum install gimp2" is not very difficult. I just GIMP2 will be out very very soon :) -- Julien Olivier From stevelist at silverorange.com Wed Dec 10 19:52:09 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:52:09 -0400 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora In-Reply-To: <1071084528.8102.208.camel@pc> References: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> <1071084528.8102.208.camel@pc> Message-ID: <3FD77969.7070809@silverorange.com> Perhaps someone could put together some comparisong screenshots? Side-by-side system fonts would be helpful for comparison. I'd do it myself, but it will take me a few days to get to it - hopefully someone will beat me to it. Steven Garrity Laurent GUERBY wrote: >On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 19:06, Julien Olivier wrote: > > >>Hi >> >>Owen Taylor told (on the fedora-devel-list) that the Luxi/Nimbus fonts >>were the default for aesthetics reasons. I'd like to know what you think >>are the best fonts for the Fedora desktop. Is it Vera ? Nimbus/Luxi ? >>Any other free font ? >> >> > >I have a 17" 1280x1024 LCD display (Hyundai Q17), >I use size 9 Bitstream Vera Sans with subpixel smoothing, everything >else looks worse (and I've tried lots of fonts, that's easy now >that most apps just redraw themselves when you click :). > >At size 9 Sans on my screen, I don't honestly see how anyone could say >Nimbus or Luxi look better, just look at the "e" letter, but may be >something is wrong with my settings. > >Laurent > > >-- >Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > From julo at altern.org Wed Dec 10 20:58:36 2003 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:58:36 +0000 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora In-Reply-To: <3FD77969.7070809@silverorange.com> References: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> <1071084528.8102.208.camel@pc> <3FD77969.7070809@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1071089916.4884.20.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 19:52, Steven Garrity wrote: > Perhaps someone could put together some comparisong screenshots? > Side-by-side system fonts would be helpful for comparison. > > I'd do it myself, but it will take me a few days to get to it - > hopefully someone will beat me to it. I took screen-shots of the fonts preference window with Nimbus Sans, Luxi Sans and Vera Sans with/without sub-pixel smoothing (I have a laptop). You can see the 6 screen-shots at the following address: http://julien.olivier.free.fr/fonts -- Julien Olivier From ready at rosa.com Wed Dec 10 21:25:35 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:25:35 +0100 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora In-Reply-To: <1071089916.4884.20.camel@localhost> References: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> <1071084528.8102.208.camel@pc> <3FD77969.7070809@silverorange.com> <1071089916.4884.20.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3FD78F4F.8000304@rosa.com> Julien Olivier wrote: >On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 19:52, Steven Garrity wrote: > > >>Perhaps someone could put together some comparisong screenshots? >>Side-by-side system fonts would be helpful for comparison. >> >>I'd do it myself, but it will take me a few days to get to it - >>hopefully someone will beat me to it. >> >> > >I took screen-shots of the fonts preference window with Nimbus Sans, >Luxi Sans and Vera Sans with/without sub-pixel smoothing (I have a >laptop). > >You can see the 6 screen-shots at the following address: > >http://julien.olivier.free.fr/fonts > > > I would say Vera is the one, but it should get even smoother... Greets, Marky -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: CEO, Product & Strategy R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From hp at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 01:47:57 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:47:57 -0500 Subject: how bleeding edge will the next fedora release be? In-Reply-To: <1071081680.3827.12.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> References: <20031209170005.14566.82425.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <1071081680.3827.12.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <1071107277.12707.227.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 13:41, Fernando Fernandez wrote: > I think this would be a good topic of discussion. personally I would > like to see more beta software included things like: Mozilla 1.6, Gimp > version 1.3.23 evolution 1.5, even Garnome instead of gnome. After all > that isn't what fedora is about being the tip of the sword. I'd like > to hear the opinions of others on this subject. > We aren't likely to _ship_ betas, however, we may be putting some of these betas in rawhide soon, if we expect the final versions to arrive in time for FC2. Havoc From hp at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 01:49:00 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:49:00 -0500 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <1071107340.12707.229.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 10:46, Trae McCombs wrote: > Hi all, > > I was quite upset when FC1 was launched, and the following bug was > allowed to permeate through: > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 > So fix the bug (without introducing a different bug) - I tried, I didn't have much luck. Havoc From hp at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 01:52:01 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:52:01 -0500 Subject: Proposing fvwm. [was]Re: Adding another desktop (ice) In-Reply-To: <3FD67700.A47C1636@prepaidonline.com.au> References: <3FD5DFE9.1020600@fnal.gov> <3FD66793.2060006@redhat.com> <3FD67700.A47C1636@prepaidonline.com.au> Message-ID: <1071107521.12707.233.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 20:29, Alex Wallis wrote: > I was led to believe that to be considered for inclusion a suitable > window manager should provide both i18n/internationalisation AND > a11y/accessibility support. This certainly isn't necessary for inclusion in fedora extras, or even always a requirement for core. The point about i18n/a11y and other issues such as those at http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/desktop/defaults.html are really about selecting the defaults. > However, fvwm does provide the former, but > documentation on methods of including a11y support appears to be sparse, > so we are still investigating this. If anyone can provide some useful > url's on a11y we would be most grateful. The developer.gnome.org a11y pages are probably the best source of info. > It is our hope that perhaps once these adjustments have been made that > fvwm and fvwm-themes packages may be considered for inclusion into the > fedora extras trees. Please feel free to offer any suggestions that may > assist us in this endeavour. I'd say fvwm is an obvious and uncontroversial addition to fedora extras, and would be unlikely to appear in fedora core. Havoc From occy at occy.net Thu Dec 11 14:13:37 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:13:37 -0500 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <1071107340.12707.229.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> <1071107340.12707.229.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1071152017.2535.41.camel@airwaves> On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 20:49, Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 10:46, Trae McCombs wrote: > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 > > > > So fix the bug (without introducing a different bug) - I tried, I didn't > have much luck. If you didn't already know, I can not code. So telling me to fix the bug is more than counter-productive. I have contributed to the Free Software / Open Source community in other ways that I've been able to though. That being put aside... My main point was, and is: Should we allow broken software to permeate into Fedora. Just because you personally don't use Sloppy Focus with Click to Raise, doesn't make it any less important. >From a users interface point of view, this is one of the more intuitive focus methods. Being forced to click on a title bar, or pressing the alt key, isn't exactly a very intuitive thing. Clicking anywhere in a window to raise it, however, is. I guess I'm still amazed that you would rather break a very useful feature in order to fix a bug that had been around for quite a while. Why should a feature be lost at the expense of someone else's bug? Further notes: pekwm comes set with this focus mode by default. I don't know how they have gotten around the "dhtml" bug where getting rid of this focus method fixes. (or if they did get around it). *sigh*, I'm sure noone really cares about this, and most people that are missing this method of focus are probably just simply clicking on the title bar thinking it's something that could be fixed but that they can't find how to set the option. Trae -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From ready at rosa.com Thu Dec 11 14:19:55 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:19:55 +0100 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <1071152017.2535.41.camel@airwaves> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> <1071107340.12707.229.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1071152017.2535.41.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <3FD87D0B.8020208@rosa.com> Fedora should target a well defined community response system and bug free releases. Fedora is not RedHat's testing departement, I guess. Else we should drop the edition. Greets, Marky Trae McCombs wrote: >On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 20:49, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > >>On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 10:46, Trae McCombs wrote: >> >> >>>http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 >>> >>> >>> >>So fix the bug (without introducing a different bug) - I tried, I didn't >>have much luck. >> >> > >If you didn't already know, I can not code. So telling me to fix the >bug is more than counter-productive. I have contributed to the Free >Software / Open Source community in other ways that I've been able to >though. > >That being put aside... My main point was, and is: Should we allow >broken software to permeate into Fedora. > >Just because you personally don't use Sloppy Focus with Click to Raise, >doesn't make it any less important. > >>From a users interface point of view, this is one of the more intuitive >focus methods. Being forced to click on a title bar, or pressing the >alt key, isn't exactly a very intuitive thing. Clicking anywhere in a >window to raise it, however, is. > >I guess I'm still amazed that you would rather break a very useful >feature in order to fix a bug that had been around for quite a while. >Why should a feature be lost at the expense of someone else's bug? > >Further notes: >pekwm comes set with this focus mode by default. I don't know how they >have gotten around the "dhtml" bug where getting rid of this focus >method fixes. (or if they did get around it). > >*sigh*, I'm sure noone really cares about this, and most people that are >missing this method of focus are probably just simply clicking on the >title bar thinking it's something that could be fixed but that they >can't find how to set the option. > >Trae > > > -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: CEO, Product & Strategy R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From darksyntax at tampabay.rr.com Thu Dec 11 15:09:39 2003 From: darksyntax at tampabay.rr.com (Fernando Fernandez) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:09:39 -0500 Subject: IMHO Message-ID: <3FD888B3.9080009@tampabay.rr.com> I think the next release of fedora core should focus itself on offical releases of gnome and kde and not these customized versions that are a pain to change From garrett at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 17:14:08 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:14:08 -0500 Subject: IMHO In-Reply-To: <3FD888B3.9080009@tampabay.rr.com> References: <3FD888B3.9080009@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FD8A5E0.1090703@redhat.com> Fernando Fernandez wrote: > I think the next release of fedora core should focus itself on offical > releases of gnome and kde and not these customized versions that are a > pain to change Fernando, What issues do you have with GNOME and KDE in Fedora? For what reasons do you change to the default upstream versions? Garrett From rbpark at ualberta.ca Thu Dec 11 18:31:47 2003 From: rbpark at ualberta.ca (Rob Park) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:31:47 -0700 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <3FD8B813.1020107@ualberta.ca> Trae McCombs wrote: > I was quite upset when FC1 was launched, and the following bug was > allowed to permeate through: > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 I have a feeling that you'll *really* like KDE, especially 3.2 when it comes out. It allows you to configure the focus model, and you can get pretty much anything. :) From occy at occy.net Thu Dec 11 19:06:18 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:06:18 -0500 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <3FD8B813.1020107@ualberta.ca> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> <3FD8B813.1020107@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1071169578.2535.51.camel@airwaves> On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 13:31, Rob Park wrote: > Trae McCombs wrote: > > I was quite upset when FC1 was launched, and the following bug was > > allowed to permeate through: > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 > > I have a feeling that you'll *really* like KDE, especially 3.2 when it > comes out. It allows you to configure the focus model, and you can get > pretty much anything. :) If I weren't so picky, and liked the consistency of things in GNOME on Fedora, I would use KDE. It allows you to do all the things I want to do. The biggest problem I have with KDE is that not a single theme/style/whatever that I've found for KDE has as good a look and feel as the Bluecurve setup does. Also, KDE has issues when it comes to panel applets. People like to put way too much chrome on things, and things end up looking clunky. GNOMEs panel applets feel integrated, and not an afterthought. The biggest thing is, I've tried very hard, at my friend Garrett's suggestion, to use the defaults in Redhat8/9 and now Fedora Core 1.0. I really like the work he's done, it's sad though that people can arbitrarily kill off another persons feature without getting feedback from the community. I guess this is where the whole "If you don't like what I do go code something else yourself" mentality comes in to play. IMHO, that shouldn't be the way to run a desktop environment. Before taking out major features, the community at large should be consulted. Then, and only then, should things be removed or added. Trae -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From garrett at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 20:19:29 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:19:29 -0500 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <1071169578.2535.51.camel@airwaves> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> <3FD8B813.1020107@ualberta.ca> <1071169578.2535.51.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <3FD8D151.2010009@redhat.com> Trae McCombs wrote: >On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 13:31, Rob Park wrote: > > >>Trae McCombs wrote: >> >> >>>I was quite upset when FC1 was launched, and the following bug was >>>allowed to permeate through: >>> >>>http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 >>> >>> >>I have a feeling that you'll *really* like KDE, especially 3.2 when it >>comes out. It allows you to configure the focus model, and you can get >>pretty much anything. :) >> >> > >If I weren't so picky, and liked the consistency of things in GNOME on >Fedora, I would use KDE. It allows you to do all the things I want to >do. The biggest problem I have with KDE is that not a single >theme/style/whatever that I've found for KDE has as good a look and feel >as the Bluecurve setup does. Also, KDE has issues when it comes to >panel applets. People like to put way too much chrome on things, and >things end up looking clunky. GNOMEs panel applets feel integrated, and >not an afterthought. > >The biggest thing is, I've tried very hard, at my friend Garrett's >suggestion, to use the defaults in Redhat8/9 and now Fedora Core 1.0. I >really like the work he's done, it's sad though that people can >arbitrarily kill off another persons feature without getting feedback >from the community. I guess this is where the whole "If you don't like >what I do go code something else yourself" mentality comes in to play. >IMHO, that shouldn't be the way to run a desktop environment. Before >taking out major features, the community at large should be consulted. >Then, and only then, should things be removed or added. > > We simply cannot consult everyone nor should we take into account everyone's opinion. If we did that, the the desktop would contain every feature available in a clunky interface and would lack consistency. I don't think that's the right way to go. (Having input from the community _is_ valuable though; don't take the above paragraph out of context. *smile*) That being said, having sloppy focus with a click to raise a window is something I'd like too, as long as the click is passed through. I get around it by having autoraise turned on, but it's still annoying at times, especially in the GIMP (which is the reason why I'm using autoraise in the first place). When you interact with a window, you expect it to react. I've closed the wrong window in the GIMP several times due to focus not being passed correctly, including various docks which I cannot get back the way I want without reconfiguring for several minutes. Other times it's a document I was working on that I would have to reopen. It's highly annoying, especially since Metacity (at one point in time) did the right thing. Garrett From occy at occy.net Thu Dec 11 20:30:54 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:30:54 -0500 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <3FD8D151.2010009@redhat.com> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> <3FD8B813.1020107@ualberta.ca> <1071169578.2535.51.camel@airwaves> <3FD8D151.2010009@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071174654.2535.59.camel@airwaves> On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 15:19, Garrett LeSage wrote: > >>> > >>>http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072 > >>> > We simply cannot consult everyone nor should we take into account > everyone's opinion. If we did that, the the desktop would contain every > feature available in a clunky interface and would lack consistency. I > don't think that's the right way to go. > Fair enough. I do understand this in a lot of cases. I realize what you guys at Redhat are trying to do is very hard, and if every single joe blow wanted to put in thier 2 pennies, nothing would get done. Rob Adams has posted a request to remove the bug fix for now, and possibly have the X developers fix this. I would concur with his thinking. Please read the above bugzilla URL for more details. My whole thinking on this is that, a developer, in a big project like GNOME, shouldn't be able to fix bugs that cause known and working features to stop working. > (Having input from the community _is_ valuable though; don't take the > above paragraph out of context. *smile*) > > That being said, having sloppy focus with a click to raise a window is > something I'd like too, as long as the click is passed through. I get > around it by having autoraise turned on, but it's still annoying at > times, especially in the GIMP (which is the reason why I'm using > autoraise in the first place). > > When you interact with a window, you expect it to react. I've closed > the wrong window in the GIMP several times due to focus not being passed > correctly, including various docks which I cannot get back the way I > want without reconfiguring for several minutes. Other times it's a > document I was working on that I would have to reopen. It's highly > annoying, especially since Metacity (at one point in time) did the right > thing. > Right bud... Thanks for vocalizing something I in an illustrative way I could not. It's hard to put these U.I. interaction things into positive words when it doesn't work the way you want. > Garrett > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From a.meyer at hccnet.nl Thu Dec 11 20:41:43 2003 From: a.meyer at hccnet.nl (Andre Meyer) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:41:43 +0100 Subject: FC2 Desktop wishlist: fix metacity focus bug: 115072 In-Reply-To: <1071169578.2535.51.camel@airwaves> References: <1070898401.2281.143.camel@airwaves> <3FD8B813.1020107@ualberta.ca> <1071169578.2535.51.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <1071175303.3491.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> > If I weren't so picky, and liked the consistency of things in GNOME on > Fedora, I would use KDE. It allows you to do all the things I want to > do. The biggest problem I have with KDE is that not a single > theme/style/whatever that I've found for KDE has as good a look and feel > as the Bluecurve setup does. Also, KDE has issues when it comes to > panel applets. People like to put way too much chrome on things, and > things end up looking clunky. GNOMEs panel applets feel integrated, and > not an afterthought. What a wonderful statement! I do fully agree on that KDE is too flashy to be useful. Bluecurve is a wonderful piece of art and usefulness. Great style and usability. Please, do not make Gnome imitate that techy style interface where you need to wear shades before you can achieve anything at all. Of course, there are things in Gnome that are frustrating, but let's be optimistic, supportive and helpful about these. One thing about Gnome that is frustrating is the bad copy/paste or even drag/drop support. Media integration could be improved. Fonts are still not as fantastic as they should be. And more things that should be fixed, but I stop here. All in all, Gnome is a marvellous environment and would not want to be forced to use anything else. Ok, I have to admit that I was shown MacOS X and I was impressed, but that is probably beyond the scope of this discussion... Many thanks to Havoc and the people around him. They do a wonderful job. Let's support them to make Gnome even better. king regards Andr? From JLSain at carolina.rr.com Fri Dec 12 16:37:03 2003 From: JLSain at carolina.rr.com (Josh Sain) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:37:03 -0500 Subject: RHGB? Message-ID: <1071247022.8286.2.camel@Josh.SAIN> I have a question. My friend recently installed Fedora Core 1 on his linux box and he has a graphical boot process. I can't seem to get my Fedora to do that. Please help! Thanks, Josh From jrb at redhat.com Fri Dec 12 16:38:52 2003 From: jrb at redhat.com (Jonathan Blandford) Date: 12 Dec 2003 11:38:52 -0500 Subject: RHGB? In-Reply-To: <1071247022.8286.2.camel@Josh.SAIN> References: <1071247022.8286.2.camel@Josh.SAIN> Message-ID: Josh Sain writes: > I have a question. My friend recently installed Fedora Core 1 on his > linux box and he has a graphical boot process. I can't seem to get my > Fedora to do that. Please help! It isn't installed on an upgrade. You need to install the rhgb package and append rhgb to your boot line in grub. -Jonathan From darksyntax at tampabay.rr.com Fri Dec 12 20:37:35 2003 From: darksyntax at tampabay.rr.com (Fernando Fernandez) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:37:35 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: someone asked....] Message-ID: <1071261455.10133.9.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Fernando Fernandez Subject: someone asked.... Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:36:51 -0500 Size: 1921 URL: From a.meyer at hccnet.nl Fri Dec 12 21:36:33 2003 From: a.meyer at hccnet.nl (Andre Meyer) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:36:33 +0100 Subject: Default fonts in Fedora In-Reply-To: <3FD78F4F.8000304@rosa.com> References: <1071079568.5033.15.camel@localhost> <1071084528.8102.208.camel@pc> <3FD77969.7070809@silverorange.com> <1071089916.4884.20.camel@localhost> <3FD78F4F.8000304@rosa.com> Message-ID: <1071264993.6011.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Vera has become my favourite font (also on Windows when I need it). However, it is a real pity that Vera Serif does not have an italics variant. Also, the difference between normal and bold is too vague. In a list with normal and bold items (eg. read/unread mails) the difference is hardly noticeable. Is anyone working on this? kind regards Andre From themadtux at tampabay.rr.com Sun Dec 14 19:11:09 2003 From: themadtux at tampabay.rr.com (jason pratt) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:11:09 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: someone asked....] In-Reply-To: <1071261455.10133.9.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> References: <1071261455.10133.9.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <1071429068.6331.3.camel@vlad> On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 15:37, Fernando Fernandez wrote: > someone asked, why id prefer a more upstream version of gnome AND KDE. > opposed To the red hat customized versions... > its simple I think the "redhat changes" in the desktop > environment--overstep certain boundaries, really making it harder to > upgrade, the said environments. and customize to my liking the look and > feel of my computer. I'd have to disagree. Red Hats modification of the default GNOME desktop is by far a more professional unified look. It's one of the best looking gnome desktops in a distribution period. If they went with a default GNOME redhat/fedora would loose alot of appeal to me, personally. -- Jason Pratt Linux User # 334419 Fedora Core 1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From julo at altern.org Sun Dec 14 20:54:23 2003 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:54:23 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: someone asked....] In-Reply-To: <1071429068.6331.3.camel@vlad> References: <1071261455.10133.9.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> <1071429068.6331.3.camel@vlad> Message-ID: <1071435263.5227.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> > I'd have to disagree. Red Hats modification of the default GNOME desktop > is by far a more professional unified look. It's one of the best > looking gnome desktops in a distribution period. If they went with a > default GNOME redhat/fedora would loose alot of appeal to me, > personally. As a GNOME user, I would even like it better if most of what Redhat changes in the default GNOME was changed in upstream GNOME. For example, I would *love* to see Bluecurve (GTK style, icons and metacity theme) become GNOME's default theme. But I understand that for branding reasons, Redhat wouldn't like that though. -- Julien Olivier From tony at tgds.net Mon Dec 15 06:47:23 2003 From: tony at tgds.net (Tony Grant) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:47:23 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: someone asked....] In-Reply-To: <1071429068.6331.3.camel@vlad> References: <1071261455.10133.9.camel@6535136hfc192.tampabay.rr.com> <1071429068.6331.3.camel@vlad> Message-ID: <1071470840.7958.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dim 14/12/2003 ? 20:11, jason pratt a ?crit : > I'd have to disagree. Red Hats modification of the default GNOME desktop > is by far a more professional unified look. It's one of the best > looking gnome desktops in a distribution period. If they went with a > default GNOME redhat/fedora would loose alot of appeal to me, > personally. I like Ximian Desktop 2. I just decided during the weekend to finaly jump in the deep end and did a yum install of Fedora Core 1 over Redhat 9 on my main machine. So I took out the ximian rpms as per the instructions. For the moment gnome is almost working again. I am missing the main menu a lot... Another thing that happened is KDE was installed on a machine where there was no KDE before. yum upgrade is a little over zealous maybe? Yes I did hav QT libs for those apps that need them. If anybody has an idea why I have the redhat menu in KDE and not in gnome advice greatly appreciated. Cheers Tony Grant -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit From dawson at fnal.gov Mon Dec 15 20:10:40 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:10:40 -0600 Subject: default gnome panel buttons (answer) Message-ID: <3FDE1540.4070904@fnal.gov> Howdy, My thanks to all who gave me leads and such on this jolly trek I've been on. May asked me to post the answer when I got it, so here it is. For these examples I removed the OpenOffice Spreadsheet, and put the terminal button first (before the web browser) RedHat 9 and Enterprise 3 (Gnome 2.2) ------------------------- Edit the files /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/schemas/apps/panel/default_profiles/medium/general/%gconf.xml /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/schemas/apps/panel/default_profiles/medium/objects/terminal_launcher/%gconf.xml In general/%gconf.xml I replaced the word spreadsheet_launcher with terminal_launcher In terminal_launcher/%gconf.xml I changed the 'position' value from 300 to 25 Fedora Core 1 (Gnome 2.4) ------------- Edit the file /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/apps/panel/default_setup/general/%gconf.xml and add the file/directory /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/apps/panel/default_setup/objects/terminal_launcher/%gconf.xml in general/%gconf.xml I replaced the word spreadsheet_launcher with terminal_launcher For the file terminal_launcher/%gconf.xml well ... I haven't gotten that right yet. I just know that when I have it wrong I get a nice error when I startup gnome. Since at the moment, my main users are RedHat 9 and Enterprise 3 users, I'm going to say that it's good enough because I found the file :) EXTRA ----- Good documentation http://www.gnome.org/learn/ http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/2.2/gconf-8.html#gconf-14 http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/latest/gconf-8.html#gconf-14 Just note that at least for the Gnome 2.2, the examples they use are not what you find in RedHat 9. This led me on a wild goose chase (but at least I had a goose to chase) Also note that you can do all that I did using gconf, but after working with the syntax of it, I finolly gave up and did things by hand. Hope this helps people Troy Dawson -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From p.vandenberg at personainternet.com Mon Dec 15 20:38:25 2003 From: p.vandenberg at personainternet.com (Paul Vandenberg) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:38:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fwd: someone asked....] In-Reply-To: <20031215170007.15874.66852.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> References: <20031215170007.15874.66852.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <13983.216.94.61.100.1071520705.squirrel@webmail.personainternet.com> Hi, I have to agree. Bluecurve is really cool looking, both GNOME and KDE. It's one of the things that attracts me to Red Hat/Fedora. -Paul From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Dec 15 20:52:04 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:52:04 -0400 Subject: Visual Treatment of Window Borders in Bluecurve Message-ID: <3FDE1EF4.5070501@silverorange.com> The (wonderful) BlueCurve theme seems to have eliminated any visual distinction between window borders and the contents of the window. It has also eliminated the visual distinction between resizable and non-resizable windows (was there ever a distinction?). This does simplify things visually, which is nice ? but it does force the user to guess whether an window is resizable or to fish for the resizing cursor. Any thoughts on this? Was this simply a known trade-off for aesthetics? Thanks, Steven Garrity From dawson at fnal.gov Mon Dec 15 20:57:31 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:57:31 -0600 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package Message-ID: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> I'm pretty sure this has came up before, but I can't seem to find it. So if this has been rehashed alot of times, feel free to send me to send me to the resolution. Although 3D graphics cards are becoming more and more common, not all machines have them, or have 3D turned on. As such, since the default screensaver is random, it's only a matter of time before a machine pulls one up. For a machine with a 3D enabled card, this is no big deal, and can be quite pretty. For a machine that is doing all the 3D effects via software, it can slow the machine down, grind it to a halt, get it extremely hot, etc ... Can Fedora pull out it's screensavers that need/want 3D hardware acceleration, and bundle them into a separate 3d-screensavers rpm? If the answer is no, for whatever the reason, well, then it is. If the answer is yes, then I can probrubly help give a hand. Troy -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From notting at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 21:05:01 2003 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:05:01 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Troy Dawson (dawson at fnal.gov) said: > Although 3D graphics cards are becoming more and more common, not all > machines have them, or have 3D turned on. As such, since the default > screensaver is random, it's only a matter of time before a machine pulls > one up. > For a machine with a 3D enabled card, this is no big deal, and can be quite > pretty. > For a machine that is doing all the 3D effects via software, it can slow > the machine down, grind it to a halt, get it extremely hot, etc ... > > Can Fedora pull out it's screensavers that need/want 3D hardware > acceleration, and bundle them into a separate 3d-screensavers rpm? No, for various reasons, including: - there's no good way to key packages as 'install this if you have hardware 3d support' - the 2d screensavers can (and do) chew just as much CPU as the 3d ones Patches that allow switching automatically to the blank screensaver in the case of running on battery, etc. would certainly be considered; you'd probably want to hook into the dbus event framework for getting power events from the kernel in the future. Bill From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Dec 15 22:26:53 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: 15 Dec 2003 17:26:53 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> > No, for various reasons, including: > > - there's no good way to key packages as 'install this if you > have hardware 3d support' > - the 2d screensavers can (and do) chew just as much CPU as the 3d > ones > > Patches that allow switching automatically to the blank screensaver > in the case of running on battery, etc. would certainly be considered; > you'd probably want to hook into the dbus event framework for getting > power events from the kernel in the future. I'd encourage the screensavers to be packaged as: xscreensaver-blank allotherscreensavers. I abhor ALL screensavers as they frequently cause lockups on odd video cards. I'd love to remove all the 'fun' ones and just have screenblank+lock in xscreensaver. Do you think that would be permissable? Still have all the fun ones default to installed but be removable. -sv From garrett at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 22:49:13 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:49:13 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> Message-ID: <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> seth vidal wrote: >>No, for various reasons, including: >> >>- there's no good way to key packages as 'install this if you >> have hardware 3d support' >>- the 2d screensavers can (and do) chew just as much CPU as the 3d >> ones >> >>Patches that allow switching automatically to the blank screensaver >>in the case of running on battery, etc. would certainly be considered; >>you'd probably want to hook into the dbus event framework for getting >>power events from the kernel in the future. >> >> > >I'd encourage the screensavers to be packaged as: > >xscreensaver-blank >allotherscreensavers. > >I abhor ALL screensavers as they frequently cause lockups on odd video >cards. I'd love to remove all the 'fun' ones and just have >screenblank+lock in xscreensaver. > >Do you think that would be permissable? Still have all the fun ones >default to installed but be removable. > > It would be nice to include a basic no-frills, low-cpu usage "Fedora" screensaver (just pop up the Fedora logo in random places for a short while) and the blank one, as well as a few of the nicer ones... then toss the rest in an extras package. We could default to the Fedora-branded screensaver (it would simply use a PNG so that the image could be easily swapped out). Of course, this is just my personal $0.02, so take that into account. (: Garrett From nathan at silverorange.com Mon Dec 15 23:23:29 2003 From: nathan at silverorange.com (Nathan Fredrickson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:23:29 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071530609.19124.20.camel@rocky> On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 17:49, Garrett LeSage wrote: > It would be nice to include a basic no-frills, low-cpu usage "Fedora" > screensaver (just pop up the Fedora logo in random places for a short > while) and the blank one, as well as a few of the nicer ones... then > toss the rest in an extras package. > > We could default to the Fedora-branded screensaver (it would simply use > a PNG so that the image could be easily swapped out). If this does get cleaned up, don't overlook the password prompt for unlocking a locked display. The current xscreensaver default does not fit very well with the look of Fedora. Nathan From michaelfivis at verizon.net Tue Dec 16 00:08:18 2003 From: michaelfivis at verizon.net (Michael Fivis) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:08:18 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FDE4CF2.1040205@verizon.net> / It would be nice to include a basic no-frills, low-cpu usage "Fedora" screensaver (just pop up the Fedora logo in random places for a short while) / I think we can live without constant reminder that this isn't windows. / and the blank one, as well as a few of the nicer ones... then toss the rest in an extras package. We could default to the Fedora-branded screensaver (it would simply use a PNG so that the image could be easily swapped out). Of course, this is just my personal $0.02, so take that into account. (: Garrett /As for this seperate package business-- While I recognize the need for some hardware setups to avoid the 3D frills, it really seems irrelevant to be able to avoid all 3D and leave the low-cpu ones. Leave it as blankscreen for default- maybe to avoid woo-ing Fedora newcomers, and keeping them a little more focused on the task of learning a new operating system rather than getting their background and color scheme correct immediately after an install. One of the notable points I read in the last couple messages was the one concerning the login-prompt to unlock the screen. I second any motion to redesign it as fit- because it does look a bit crude and old-school Gnome/Enlightenment-ish. From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Dec 16 01:38:06 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:38:06 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FDE4CF2.1040205@verizon.net> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> <3FDE4CF2.1040205@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1071538685.3800.1.camel@binkley> > /As for this seperate package business-- While I recognize the need for > some hardware setups to avoid the 3D frills, it really seems irrelevant > to be able to avoid all 3D and leave the low-cpu ones. > Leave it as blankscreen for default- maybe to avoid woo-ing Fedora > newcomers, and keeping them a little more focused on the task of > learning a new operating system rather than getting their background and > color scheme correct immediately after an install. I disagree. I manage a network of over 100 desktop linux machines. I'd like for my users to not decide they want one of the cool screensavers and suck the life out of a machine. Fine I can make policy, but it'd be even nicer to just NOT have those screensavers in the base package and just remove the package forever. Remember, this isn't just about single user machines. If rhel is going to work in networks then Fedora Core needs to work there too. -sv From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Dec 16 01:41:59 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:41:59 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071538919.3800.6.camel@binkley> > It would be nice to include a basic no-frills, low-cpu usage "Fedora" > screensaver (just pop up the Fedora logo in random places for a short > while) and the blank one, as well as a few of the nicer ones... then > toss the rest in an extras package. I say junk the 'nicer' ones into the subpackage. Just a base: xscreensaver that is blank and 'fedora' and nothing else. All the extra frilly screensavers get into a xscreensaver-extras package. > We could default to the Fedora-branded screensaver (it would simply use > a PNG so that the image could be easily swapped out). Sounds fine to me as long as I don't have a list of, conservatively, 180+ screensavers in the current pkg. Speaking of that isn't there someone in the HIG people who thinks that a select list of 180 options is an abomination? -sv From jensknutson at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 01:55:17 2003 From: jensknutson at yahoo.com (Jens Knutson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:55:17 -0600 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071538919.3800.6.camel@binkley> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> <1071538919.3800.6.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1071539717.20620.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 19:41, seth vidal wrote: > Sounds fine to me as long as I don't have a list of, conservatively, > 180+ screensavers in the current pkg. > > Speaking of that isn't there someone in the HIG people who thinks that a > select list of 180 options is an abomination? I can't speak for the KDE situation, but as far as GNOME goes, this will eventually be solved - they're just going to replace xscreensaver at some point (hopefully for 2.8, but who knows?) This message looks promising anyhow: http://lists.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2003-December/msg00017.html So anyway, yeah, GNOME recognizes the problems with xscreensaver, and at some point, we'll get a nice replacement. - jck -- "To turn $100 into $110 is work. To turn $100 million into $110 million is inevitable" -- Edgar Bronfman From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Dec 16 02:29:52 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:29:52 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071539717.20620.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> <1071538919.3800.6.camel@binkley> <1071539717.20620.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1071541791.3800.12.camel@binkley> > I can't speak for the KDE situation, but as far as GNOME goes, this will > eventually be solved - they're just going to replace xscreensaver at > some point (hopefully for 2.8, but who knows?) This message looks > promising anyhow: > > http://lists.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2003-December/msg00017.html > > So anyway, yeah, GNOME recognizes the problems with xscreensaver, and at > some point, we'll get a nice replacement. Glad to hear it. In the meantime, maybe we can axe some of the repetitive screensavers or even discuss some prioritization of them. -sv From notting at redhat.com Tue Dec 16 02:34:44 2003 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:34:44 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071539717.20620.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> <1071538919.3800.6.camel@binkley> <1071539717.20620.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20031216023444.GC1067@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Jens Knutson (jensknutson at yahoo.com) said: > http://lists.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2003-December/msg00017.html > > So anyway, yeah, GNOME recognizes the problems with xscreensaver, and at > some point, we'll get a nice replacement. However, in the points listed there; there's not really that much there that doesn't already exist in xscreensaver (using generic hacks, and having a lib that makes writing some stuff easier - the lib just isn't packaged as such.) Moreover, when you're talking about fast user switching, the screensaver is *not* the place to start solving the problem; what you really want to do is just build in VNC-like support to all sessions, and then just disconnect and switch to new local ones; this can be added to any screensaver rewrite post-fact, IMO. IOW, I don't think he's looking at the issues mentioned in this thread. Bill From stevelist at silverorange.com Tue Dec 16 02:45:55 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:45:55 -0400 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <3FDE71E3.7020605@silverorange.com> I'd suggest dropping most of the screensavers - just pick 5 or 6 good ones, and pull out the rest. Why both with a bunch of cheezy screensaves in the distribution? Trim down and simplify. Steven Garrity From JLSain at carolina.rr.com Tue Dec 16 02:52:02 2003 From: JLSain at carolina.rr.com (Joshua Sain) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:52:02 -0500 Subject: RHGB? References: <1071247022.8286.2.camel@Josh.SAIN> Message-ID: <004601c3c37f$9584d800$641b1311@Downstairs> How do I append it do my boot line in grub? I've installed the package now, though. Thanks, Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Blandford" To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:38 AM Subject: Re: RHGB? > Josh Sain writes: > > > I have a question. My friend recently installed Fedora Core 1 on his > > linux box and he has a graphical boot process. I can't seem to get my > > Fedora to do that. Please help! > > It isn't installed on an upgrade. You need to install the rhgb package > and append rhgb to your boot line in grub. > > -Jonathan > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > From jensknutson at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 02:57:11 2003 From: jensknutson at yahoo.com (Jens Knutson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:57:11 -0600 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <20031216023444.GC1067@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> <1071538919.3800.6.camel@binkley> <1071539717.20620.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20031216023444.GC1067@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071543431.20620.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 20:34, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Jens Knutson (jensknutson at yahoo.com) said: > > http://lists.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2003-December/msg00017.html > > > > So anyway, yeah, GNOME recognizes the problems with xscreensaver, and at > > some point, we'll get a nice replacement. > > However, in the points listed there; there's not really > that much there that doesn't already exist in xscreensaver > (using generic hacks, and having a lib that makes writing some > stuff easier - the lib just isn't packaged as such.) That doesn't really matter - hell, the code from Sven may end up just being an xcreensaver fork. The point is more that the project would be under GNOME control. This is not to knock Jamie or his project, they just have different goals; it's quite unlikely that Jamie will want to make the necessary changes to xscreensaver (like trimming the fat of some of the "lame" or problematic screensavers, changing the configuration GUI, etc) to make it the really great, user-oriented (as opposed to geek-oriented) screensaver that GNOME needs. - jck -- "To turn $100 into $110 is work. To turn $100 million into $110 million is inevitable" -- Edgar Bronfman From tony at tgds.net Tue Dec 16 07:02:15 2003 From: tony at tgds.net (Tony Grant) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:02:15 +0100 Subject: Visual Treatment of Window Borders in Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <3FDE1EF4.5070501@silverorange.com> References: <3FDE1EF4.5070501@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1071558134.9902.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le lun 15/12/2003 ? 21:52, Steven Garrity a ?crit : > The (wonderful) BlueCurve theme seems to have eliminated any visual > distinction between window borders and the contents of the window. It > has also eliminated the visual distinction between resizable and > non-resizable windows (was there ever a distinction?). > > This does simplify things visually, which is nice ? but it does force > the user to guess whether an window is resizable or to fish for the > resizing cursor. There isn't enough contrast between the left and bottom borders and the window background color. This is a bug IMHO Do we have a Gnome menu guru on the list? I am having some problems... Also yum upgrade to Fedora Core 1 broke CUPS... Cheers Tony Grant -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit From froZenX at fusionphp.net Wed Dec 17 00:54:58 2003 From: froZenX at fusionphp.net (froZenX) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:54:58 -0600 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FDE71E3.7020605@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <200312170055.hBH0t6h31282@mx1.redhat.com> That's the key there, a few. > One Fedora Logo one (like Windoze XP :\ ) > Few favs > Maybe one to do random pictures from designated folder (correct me if there is one already.... im lazy to look) -----Original Message----- From: fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Steven Garrity Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 8:46 PM To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: 3D screensavers - separate package I'd suggest dropping most of the screensavers - just pick 5 or 6 good ones, and pull out the rest. Why both with a bunch of cheezy screensaves in the distribution? Trim down and simplify. Steven Garrity -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From linux at bytebot.net Wed Dec 17 10:57:22 2003 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:57:22 +0100 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071607154.7561.83.camel@hermione> On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 22:05, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > Can Fedora pull out it's screensavers that need/want 3D hardware > > acceleration, and bundle them into a separate 3d-screensavers rpm? > > No, for various reasons, including: > > - there's no good way to key packages as 'install this if you > have hardware 3d support' During the installation, kudzu detects what sort of video card a PC has. Wouldn't this be enough to see if you have hardware 3d support? Otherwise, just default to installing 2d screensavers, and make the 3d an option. > - the 2d screensavers can (and do) chew just as much CPU as the 3d > ones Yes, but the 3d one's look *very* ugly on a 2d video card. Having a laptop sitting around and displaying some random 3d screensaver and not having it support it, makes it horrible. I can attest to this... > Patches that allow switching automatically to the blank screensaver > in the case of running on battery, etc. would certainly be considered; > you'd probably want to hook into the dbus event framework for getting > power events from the kernel in the future. Good idea. -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From linux at bytebot.net Wed Dec 17 10:57:24 2003 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:57:24 +0100 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> Message-ID: <1071607299.7565.86.camel@hermione> On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 23:26, seth vidal wrote: > > Patches that allow switching automatically to the blank screensaver > > in the case of running on battery, etc. would certainly be considered; > > you'd probably want to hook into the dbus event framework for getting > > power events from the kernel in the future. > > I'd encourage the screensavers to be packaged as: > > xscreensaver-blank > allotherscreensavers. xscreensaver-blank xscreensaver-2d xscreensaver-3d > I abhor ALL screensavers as they frequently cause lockups on odd video > cards. I'd love to remove all the 'fun' ones and just have > screenblank+lock in xscreensaver. I'd like to warn those that Web Collage is something I love to use, but of late, more and more questionable images are being picked up! Was at a training class recently, and some pornography was shown on the large screen! This is something that can get employees in companies in trouble. Sexual harassment laws and so on tend to come into play, no? -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From linux at bytebot.net Wed Dec 17 10:57:26 2003 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:57:26 +0100 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071543431.20620.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071527213.24263.24.camel@opus> <3FDE3A69.4010108@redhat.com> <1071538919.3800.6.camel@binkley> <1071539717.20620.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20031216023444.GC1067@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071543431.20620.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1071607601.7563.91.camel@hermione> On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 03:57, Jens Knutson wrote: > under GNOME control. This is not to knock Jamie or his project, they > just have different goals; it's quite unlikely that Jamie will want to > make the necessary changes to xscreensaver (like trimming the fat of > some of the "lame" or problematic screensavers, changing the > configuration GUI, etc) to make it the really great, user-oriented (as > opposed to geek-oriented) screensaver that GNOME needs. Has anyone asked Jamie[1] about it? He is (was) a GNOME user the last time I checked. That said, the GNOME desktop-devel-list discussion was in relation to gdmflexiserver and fast user switching. I forsee GNOME just writing some form of "wrapper" rather than removing xscreensaver altogether. It will impact GNOME negatively if they replace xscreensaver, imho. Historical reasons among others... [1] - Jamie Zawinski, author of xscreensaver -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From notting at redhat.com Wed Dec 17 16:25:02 2003 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:25:02 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071607154.7561.83.camel@hermione> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071607154.7561.83.camel@hermione> Message-ID: <20031217162501.GA5736@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Colin Charles (linux at bytebot.net) said: > During the installation, kudzu detects what sort of video card a PC has. > Wouldn't this be enough to see if you have hardware 3d support? Not necessarily. you'd need a separate table matching cards/drivers to 3D support. And then you'd get complaints from the R9800 and nVidia users that they weren't getting it. :) Bill From garrett at redhat.com Wed Dec 17 17:23:38 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:23:38 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071607154.7561.83.camel@hermione> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071607154.7561.83.camel@hermione> Message-ID: <3FE0911A.6070402@redhat.com> Colin Charles wrote: >On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 22:05, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > >> >> >> >>>Can Fedora pull out it's screensavers that need/want 3D hardware >>>acceleration, and bundle them into a separate 3d-screensavers rpm? >>> >>> >>No, for various reasons, including: >> >>- there's no good way to key packages as 'install this if you >> have hardware 3d support' >> >> > >During the installation, kudzu detects what sort of video card a PC has. >Wouldn't this be enough to see if you have hardware 3d support? > >Otherwise, just default to installing 2d screensavers, and make the 3d >an option. > > A much simpler and more elegant solution is to ship good screensavers (whether 3d or not) and have the OpenGL-based screensavers categorized as such. In terms of hardware support, set the default to a non-3d one (ideally a simple "Fedora" themed screensaver). No hardware detection needed. 3d screensavers are still shipped, and a few would be included by default. No OpenGL screensaver crashes as a result, too... The GNOME screensaver suggestion may help us out in this area (eventually), if it gets implemented: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2003-November/msg00407.html Either way, a more sane default is a good thing. (: Garrett From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Dec 17 18:42:47 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: 17 Dec 2003 13:42:47 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <3FE0911A.6070402@redhat.com> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <20031215210501.GA23609@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1071607154.7561.83.camel@hermione> <3FE0911A.6070402@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1071686567.29513.6.camel@opus> > A much simpler and more elegant solution is to ship good screensavers > (whether 3d or not) and have the OpenGL-based screensavers categorized > as such. In terms of hardware support, set the default to a non-3d one > (ideally a simple "Fedora" themed screensaver). > > No hardware detection needed. 3d screensavers are still shipped, and a > few would be included by default. No OpenGL screensaver crashes as a > result, too... > > The GNOME screensaver suggestion may help us out in this area > (eventually), if it gets implemented: > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2003-November/msg00407.html > > Either way, a more sane default is a good thing. (: > No matter what happens, how about having the gnome and kde default screensaver be 'blank' or 'fedora' instead of 'random' Thanks -sv From czar at czarc.net Wed Dec 17 20:13:30 2003 From: czar at czarc.net (Gene C.) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:13:30 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package In-Reply-To: <1071686567.29513.6.camel@opus> References: <3FDE203B.6020607@fnal.gov> <3FE0911A.6070402@redhat.com> <1071686567.29513.6.camel@opus> Message-ID: <200312171513.30203.czar@czarc.net> On Wednesday 17 December 2003 13:42, seth vidal wrote: > No matter what happens, how about having the gnome and kde default > screensaver be 'blank' or 'fedora' instead of 'random' Good idea. I wonder if someone should put in a bugzilla RFE report on this. -- Gene From jcsitte at mac.com Wed Dec 17 21:18:46 2003 From: jcsitte at mac.com (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:18:46 -0500 Subject: 3D screensavers - separate package Message-ID: <6176299.1071695926267.JavaMail.jcsitte@mac.com> On Wednesday, December 17, 2003, at 12:23PM, Garrett LeSage wrote: >A much simpler and more elegant solution is to ship good screensavers >(whether 3d or not) and have the OpenGL-based screensavers categorized >as such. In terms of hardware support, set the default to a non-3d one >(ideally a simple "Fedora" themed screensaver). This sounds like a good idea to me. >Either way, a more sane default is a good thing. (: Well said. Jonathan C. Sitte From jonathana at cleanstick.org Fri Dec 19 18:42:03 2003 From: jonathana at cleanstick.org (Jon Atkinson) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:42:03 +0000 Subject: New GNOME splash screen. Message-ID: <3FE3467B.8000909@cleanstick.org> Hi, I've just modified the default Fedora Core 1 GNOME splash screen. I moved the lighter box upwards slightly so that the splash icons appear in the middle of the box rather than slightly offset, as they did before. It's only a small improvement, and I don't even know if the splash screen format will be the same in FC2 (though I didn't see any mention of GNOME 2.6 in the next release schedule), but I'd like to submit it. Which brings me to my next question; how? Should I attach it to a list message, or is there somewhere to find out who I should email it to directly? I see no clear guidelines on the Desktop project page. Thanks in advance, --Jon Atkinson From garrett at redhat.com Fri Dec 19 21:52:15 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:52:15 -0500 Subject: New GNOME splash screen. In-Reply-To: <3FE3467B.8000909@cleanstick.org> References: <3FE3467B.8000909@cleanstick.org> Message-ID: <3FE3730F.9040700@redhat.com> Jon Atkinson wrote: > Hi, > > I've just modified the default Fedora Core 1 GNOME splash screen. I > moved the lighter box upwards slightly so that the splash icons appear > in the middle of the box rather than slightly offset, as they did > before. It's only a small improvement, and I don't even know if the > splash screen format will be the same in FC2 (though I didn't see any > mention of GNOME 2.6 in the next release schedule), but I'd like to > submit it. > > Which brings me to my next question; how? Should I attach it to a > list message, or is there somewhere to find out who I should email it > to directly? I see no clear guidelines on the Desktop project page. Jon, Thanks. In testing, I had a different font than what the final shipped with, so the offset happened. If you send me the file directly (as it should be small enough for email), then I can (eventually*) fix the AI file, re-export, and roll the changes back in to the artwork package. * I'm about to leave the office for the Christmas and New Years holidays, so there will most likely be a couple week delay. Thanks, Garrett From ba at linuxin.dk Sat Dec 20 14:56:23 2003 From: ba at linuxin.dk (Bjorn Andersen) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:56:23 +0100 Subject: Menu entry and loki installer Message-ID: <1071932183.8054.13.camel@Mars> Hi Does anybody know whats changed in the Gnome-Menu in fedora core 1? In redhat 9 the Loki installer could create a menu entry in the games menu. The Loki installer makes this file: /etc/X11/applnk/Games/et.desktop It looks like this: [Desktop Entry] Encoding=UTF-8 Name=enemy-territory Comment= Exec=/usr/local/games/enemy-territory/et Icon=/usr/local/games/enemy-territory/ET.xpm Terminal=0 Type=Application Categories=Application;Games;X-Red-Hat-Base; In Fedora test 2 the entry was not created, but could be corrected by deleting the line: Categories=Application;Games;X-Red-Hat-Base; and the icon shows properly in the Games menu in the Gnome-start menu. In Fedora Core 1 nothing works. It doesent help to delete the line in /etc/X11/applnk/Games/et.desktop What have been changed in Fedora and in the Gnome menu? Is it a bug, or with purpose? Btw, it is a problem in a lot of games using the loki installer... Regards Bjorn Andersen Linux. Because making UNIX user friendly is easier then debugging Windows -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelfivis at verizon.net Sun Dec 21 13:38:10 2003 From: michaelfivis at verizon.net (Michael Fivis) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 08:38:10 -0500 Subject: Menu entry and loki installer In-Reply-To: <1071932183.8054.13.camel@Mars> References: <1071932183.8054.13.camel@Mars> Message-ID: <3FE5A242.5050306@verizon.net> Bjorn Andersen wrote: > Hi > > Does anybody know whats changed in the Gnome-Menu in fedora core 1? > In redhat 9 the Loki installer could create a menu entry in the games > menu. > > The Loki installer makes this file: > >/etc/X11/applnk/Games/et.desktop > >It looks like this: > >[Desktop Entry] >Encoding=UTF-8 >Name=enemy-territory >Comment= >Exec=/usr/local/games/enemy-territory/et >Icon=/usr/local/games/enemy-territory/ET.xpm >Terminal=0 >Type=Application >Categories=Application;Games;X-Red-Hat-Base; > > > > > > In Fedora test 2 the entry was not created, but could be corrected by > deleting the line: > >Categories=Application;Games;X-Red-Hat-Base; > >and the icon shows properly in the Games menu in the Gnome-start menu. > > >In Fedora Core 1 nothing works. It doesent help to delete the line in >/etc/X11/applnk/Games/et.desktop > >What have been changed in Fedora and in the Gnome menu? Is it a bug, or with purpose? > > > >Btw, it is a problem in a lot of games using the loki installer... > > > > > Regards > Bjorn Andersen > > Linux. > Because making UNIX user friendly is easier then debugging Windows > Yes, as far as I've experienced, the fedora core 1 gnome setup is very friendly with adding and filing icons in the menus. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ba at linuxin.dk Sun Dec 21 16:41:41 2003 From: ba at linuxin.dk (Bjorn Andersen) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:41:41 +0100 Subject: Menu entry and loki installer In-Reply-To: <3FE5A242.5050306@verizon.net> References: <1071932183.8054.13.camel@Mars> <3FE5A242.5050306@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1072024901.7497.21.camel@Mars> s?n, 2003-12-21 kl. 14:38 skrev Michael Fivis: > Yes, as far as I've experienced, the fedora core 1 gnome setup is very > friendly with adding and filing icons in the menus. In Enemy Teritory from ID Software and Americas Army from http://www.americasarmy.com/ does the gnome menu not work. In RHL 9 it works as normal, with an entry in the menu. MVH Bj?rn Andersen http://www.linuxin.dk Linux. Because making UNIX user friendly is easier then debugging Windows From marguz at ameritech.net Mon Dec 22 14:31:24 2003 From: marguz at ameritech.net (Mark Guzzo) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:31:24 -0600 Subject: RHGB? In-Reply-To: <004601c3c37f$9584d800$641b1311@Downstairs> References: <1071247022.8286.2.camel@Josh.SAIN> <004601c3c37f$9584d800$641b1311@Downstairs> Message-ID: <1072103483.15431.2.camel@LORDLINUX.global.shsystem.org> Edit the file /boot/grub/grub.conf On the kernel line append this to the end of it rhgb Like so... title Fedora Core (2.4.22-1.2135.nptl) root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.22-1.2135.nptl ro root=LABEL=/ hdc=ide-scsi rhgb initrd /initrd-2.4.22-1.2135.nptl.img "Please note that the lines may wrap, the kernel line is ONE line" Mark From garrett at redhat.com Mon Dec 22 21:20:49 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:20:49 -0500 Subject: RHGB? In-Reply-To: <1072103483.15431.2.camel@LORDLINUX.global.shsystem.org> References: <1071247022.8286.2.camel@Josh.SAIN> <004601c3c37f$9584d800$641b1311@Downstairs> <1072103483.15431.2.camel@LORDLINUX.global.shsystem.org> Message-ID: On Dec 22, 2003, at 9:31 AM, Mark Guzzo wrote: > Edit the file /boot/grub/grub.conf > On the kernel line append this to the end of it rhgb > > Like so... > > title Fedora Core (2.4.22-1.2135.nptl) > root (hd0,0) > kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.22-1.2135.nptl ro root=LABEL=/ hdc=ide-scsi > rhgb > initrd /initrd-2.4.22-1.2135.nptl.img > > "Please note that the lines may wrap, the kernel line is ONE line" Add a "quiet" after "rhgb" and it'll look even nicer during boot-up... (less kernel debug messages...) Garrett From marguz at ameritech.net Mon Dec 22 21:38:56 2003 From: marguz at ameritech.net (Mark Guzzo) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:38:56 -0600 Subject: RHGB? In-Reply-To: References: <1071247022.8286.2.camel@Josh.SAIN> <004601c3c37f$9584d800$641b1311@Downstairs> <1072103483.15431.2.camel@LORDLINUX.global.shsystem.org> Message-ID: <1072129136.15431.10.camel@LORDLINUX.global.shsystem.org> Thanks for the tip :-) From JLSain at carolina.rr.com Tue Dec 23 08:18:50 2003 From: JLSain at carolina.rr.com (Joshua Sain) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 03:18:50 -0500 Subject: RHGB? In-Reply-To: <1072129136.15431.10.camel@LORDLINUX.global.shsystem.org> Message-ID: <000001c3c92d$65a48d20$640110ac@Downstairs> I recently switched monitors because my "good" monitor fried itself. I sort of downgraded to a backup. The resolution that I had set on my "good" monitor isn't supported by my old monitor and I had no way of changing the resolution. How can I run the configurator in NON GUI to fix this? I don't know how to get to a command line... :-\ My fedora goes to a GUI login. What do I do to get a command line and how do I fix my resolution? -----Original Message----- From: fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Mark Guzzo Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 4:39 PM To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: RHGB? Thanks for the tip :-) -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From tony at tgds.net Tue Dec 23 08:21:58 2003 From: tony at tgds.net (Tony Grant) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:21:58 +0100 Subject: graphical boot problem localised Message-ID: <1072167717.4265.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello, Since installing Fedora Core 1 I have been having problems with gdm. I tried running rhgb and the cause became clear immediately: X is booting on vt8 and not being forced to vt7. Is this a known issue? How do I fix it? Cheers Tony Grant -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit From livelinux at nwst.de Tue Dec 23 12:37:16 2003 From: livelinux at nwst.de (Dirk Westfal) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:37:16 +0100 Subject: RHGB? In-Reply-To: <000001c3c92d$65a48d20$640110ac@Downstairs> References: <000001c3c92d$65a48d20$640110ac@Downstairs> Message-ID: <200312231337.28523.livelinux@nwst.de> On Tuesday 23 December 2003 09:18, Joshua Sain wrote: > I recently switched monitors because my "good" monitor fried itself. I > sort of downgraded to a backup. The resolution that I had set on my > "good" monitor isn't supported by my old monitor and I had no way of > changing the resolution. How can I run the configurator in NON GUI to > fix this? I don't know how to get to a command line... :-\ My fedora > goes to a GUI login. What do I do to get a command line and how do I fix > my resolution? Do : ctrl-alt- F1 oor F2 to switch to a text console . Login and either run: redhat-config-xfree86 to create a new XF86Config or : vi /etc/X11/XF86Config , search the monitor section and change resolution (Do this only if you know the h/v sync values for your monitor. Alternatively: at bootprompt: init=/bin/bash will drop you to a single user root shell from which you can edit the XF86Config hope this helps, Dirk -- Dirk Westfal //Admin//RHCE/6.2//QB/DGQ mailto: root[/livelinux]@nwst.de livecd based on Redhat 9.0 : with luck and linux: www.linux4all.de / www.nwst.de livecd based on Fedora CORE : (soon ;-) From jlb at twu.net Sat Dec 27 21:47:36 2003 From: jlb at twu.net (JLB) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:47:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Annoying pager in KDE Message-ID: Hi gang. I use my copy of Fedora with KDE. It generally works quite nicely. But... I hate the stupid pager! I don't use it. I told it to ues only one virtual desktop. Then I removed the pager thingy from my taskbar. But still it claims the "ctrl-tab" key combination! I am used to using ctrl-tab in GAIM to switch tabs. I've looked all over. HEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp! How on earth can I stop this thing from binding to ctrl-tab? Thanks! -- J. L. Blank, Systems Administrator, twu.net From nomis80 at nomis80.org Sat Dec 27 21:55:47 2003 From: nomis80 at nomis80.org (Simon Perreault) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:55:47 -0500 Subject: Annoying pager in KDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200312271655.47660.nomis80@nomis80.org> On December 27, 2003 16:47, JLB wrote: > I've looked all over. HEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp! How on earth can I stop > this thing from binding to ctrl-tab? In the Control Center, go to Regional & Accessibility -> Keyboard Shortcuts, then scroll the list to System -> Navigation -> Walk Through Desktop List, select it, select None for the shortcut, and that's it. -- Simon Perreault http://nomis80.org "If voting could really change things, it would be illegal." --Excerpt from a Diebold Election Systems internal memo. From ready at rosa.com Sun Dec 28 10:26:51 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:26:51 +0100 Subject: List of all graphics? Any documentation about how to build themes? In-Reply-To: <200312271655.47660.nomis80@nomis80.org> References: <200312271655.47660.nomis80@nomis80.org> Message-ID: <3FEEAFEB.2040509@rosa.com> Dear all, Can you provide a place with a list of all graphics? Can you provide some URLs with guides how to build themes? Best regard, Marky Goldstein -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: CEO, Product & Strategy R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From nomis80 at nomis80.org Sun Dec 28 15:42:36 2003 From: nomis80 at nomis80.org (Simon Perreault) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:42:36 -0500 Subject: List of all graphics? Any documentation about how to build themes? In-Reply-To: <3FEEAFEB.2040509@rosa.com> References: <200312271655.47660.nomis80@nomis80.org> <3FEEAFEB.2040509@rosa.com> Message-ID: <200312281042.37029.nomis80@nomis80.org> On December 28, 2003 05:26, Marky Goldstein wrote: > Can you provide some URLs with guides how to build themes? For KDE, www.kde-look.org is the reference in theme building. -- Simon Perreault -- http://nomis80.org From pavels at capital.lv Mon Dec 29 07:59:33 2003 From: pavels at capital.lv (Pavels Nikolajevs) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:59:33 +0200 Subject: List of all graphics? Any documentation about how to build themes? In-Reply-To: <3FEEAFEB.2040509@rosa.com> References: <200312271655.47660.nomis80@nomis80.org> <3FEEAFEB.2040509@rosa.com> Message-ID: <3FEFDEE5.4000301@capital.lv> CEO. Hmm.. List of all graphics? Use find maybe? Marky Goldstein wrote: > Dear all, > > Can you provide a place with a list of all graphics? > > Can you provide some URLs with guides how to build themes? > > Best regard, > Marky Goldstein >