From stevelist at silverorange.com Sun Jan 4 17:42:27 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 13:42:27 -0400 Subject: Differences between default Gnome and Fedora Message-ID: <3FF85083.1010803@silverorange.com> I've been wondering about what Fedora does differently in the Gnome desktop than default Gnome. I'm not in a position to be able to easily install both to compare (I just have Fedora Core 1 installed). I'm wondering what differences there are - and why. I would like to see some discussion as to the value of each/any differences - is it worth keeping different - and if so, is it worth looking at upstreaming to Gnome. I'm thinking of stuff like the dock/quicklaunch area and the fedora/start menu, etc. Thanks, Steven Garrity From nandox7 at myrealbox.com Sun Jan 4 19:29:32 2004 From: nandox7 at myrealbox.com (Nando) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:29:32 -0000 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. Message-ID: <001901c3d2f9$14ea3990$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> Hi, I would like to propose, to create graphic fedora oriented. Error pages for Apache. And i would like to know your opinion. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hp at redhat.com Sun Jan 4 20:03:49 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 15:03:49 -0500 Subject: Differences between default Gnome and Fedora In-Reply-To: <3FF85083.1010803@silverorange.com> References: <3FF85083.1010803@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1073246629.6223.155.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-01-04 at 12:42, Steven Garrity wrote: > I've been wondering about what Fedora does differently in the Gnome > desktop than default Gnome. I'm not in a position to be able to easily > install both to compare (I just have Fedora Core 1 installed). > > I'm wondering what differences there are - and why. I would like to see > some discussion as to the value of each/any differences - is it worth > keeping different - and if so, is it worth looking at upstreaming to Gnome. > > I'm thinking of stuff like the dock/quicklaunch area and the > fedora/start menu, etc. > You can find the differences by reviewing the patches in the spec files. The differences are essentially: a) changes to default configuration, including theme b) bugfixes not upstream yet or backported from unreleased versions of GNOME AFAIK all the differences from upstream are minor/cosmetic/configuration, rather than meaningful code or functionality modifications. The reason for a) is that we want to have a unique Red Hat appearance that spans various apps and desktops. Also, sometimes upstream has a config option that is explicitly intended to be set up to match how a distribution works. For example, the "adjust date and time" command for the panel clock. The reason for b) is that the release cycle of GNOME does not sync to our release cycle, so we need to apply fixes and maintain freezes on our schedule. Without doing this we could not effectively create a stable release, because we could not control/monitor changes during a freeze. There are probably some random patches that should be upstream and aren't, but typically there's no rationale there, just stuff slipping through the cracks. If you want to go through and look for patches like this please do, others have done so in the past and it was very helpful. Havoc From michaelfivis at verizon.net Sun Jan 4 20:35:45 2004 From: michaelfivis at verizon.net (Michael Fivis) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 15:35:45 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <001901c3d2f9$14ea3990$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> References: <001901c3d2f9$14ea3990$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> Message-ID: <3FF87921.6020707@verizon.net> Nando wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to propose, to create graphic fedora oriented. Error > pages for Apache. > > And i would like to know your opinion. > > Thanks. > Could you clarify your proposition? From nandox7 at myrealbox.com Sun Jan 4 21:16:32 2004 From: nandox7 at myrealbox.com (Nando) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 21:16:32 -0000 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. References: <001901c3d2f9$14ea3990$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> <3FF87921.6020707@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000d01c3d308$07b509d0$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> Well, I mean changing the default apache web server page, to a more "fedora" graphics. And also the error pages, instead of the text 404 error page for example, a customized, graphic one refering fedora. And the error, of course. Like is seen in some other distruibutions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fivis" To: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Graphic Apache Error Pages. > Nando wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I would like to propose, to create graphic fedora oriented. Error > > pages for Apache. > > > > And i would like to know your opinion. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Could you clarify your proposition? > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > From popkev at 21cn.com Mon Jan 5 01:34:52 2004 From: popkev at 21cn.com (Kevin) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:34:52 +0800 (CST) Subject: Differences between default Gnome and Fedora Message-ID: Fedora 1 used a newer version of GNOME, which was made a bit different from the latter version. Things you mentioned are included in these modifications. > I've been wondering about what Fedora does differently in the Gnome > desktop than default Gnome. I'm not in a position to be able to easily > install both to compare (I just have Fedora Core 1 installed). > > I'm wondering what differences there are - and why. I would like to see > some discussion as to the value of each/any differences - is it worth > keeping different - and if so, is it worth looking at upstreaming to Gnome. > > I'm thinking of stuff like the dock/quicklaunch area and the > fedora/start menu, etc. > > Thanks, > Steven Garrity > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From popkev at 21cn.com Mon Jan 5 01:40:08 2004 From: popkev at 21cn.com (Kevin) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:40:08 +0800 (CST) Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. Message-ID: Seems like the Fedora Art-workers didn't released enough Fedora-style artworks. The only things I can see with the Fedora-style are - graphical boot, graphical login, gnome splash screen, and the default wallpaper. > Well, > I mean changing the default apache web server page, to a more "fedora" > graphics. > And also the error pages, instead of the text 404 error page for example, a > customized, graphic one refering fedora. And the error, of course. > Like is seen in some other distruibutions. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Fivis" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 8:35 PM > Subject: Re: Graphic Apache Error Pages. > > > > Nando wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I would like to propose, to create graphic fedora oriented. Error > > > pages for Apache. > > > > > > And i would like to know your opinion. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > Could you clarify your proposition? > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > > > > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From garrett at redhat.com Mon Jan 5 19:05:11 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 14:05:11 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF9B567.4030101@redhat.com> Kevin wrote: >Seems like the Fedora Art-workers didn't released enough Fedora-style artworks. The only things I can see with the Fedora-style are - graphical boot, graphical login, gnome splash screen, and the default wallpaper. > > I made the Fedora artwork available at: http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/artwork/Fedora/ It includes all the icons, etc. I have been working on for a while now. I really hope that's "enough"... as there isn't really much more Fedora source artwork to release. (: Garrett From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Jan 5 19:14:16 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0400 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <000d01c3d308$07b509d0$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> References: <001901c3d2f9$14ea3990$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> <3FF87921.6020707@verizon.net> <000d01c3d308$07b509d0$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> Message-ID: <3FF9B788.6070008@silverorange.com> Nando wrote: >I mean changing the default apache web server page, to a more "fedora" >graphics. >And also the error pages, instead of the text 404 error page for example, a >customized, graphic one refering fedora. And the error, of course. >Like is seen in some other distruibutions. Is this necessary, or would it just add unnecessary complication to the distribution (albeit minor). If people think it would be worthwhile, then I'd be glad to product the graphics/html based on the artwork that Garrett has released. Garrett - what do you think? Worth doing? Nando - could you show us some examples from other distributions? Thanks, Steven Garrity From popkev at 21cn.com Tue Jan 6 04:10:48 2004 From: popkev at 21cn.com (Kevin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:10:48 +0800 (CST) Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. Message-ID: Could you tell me how to open files in .ai format? The splash screen seemed a bit of old in fedoracore1 directory, I remembered that was the default wallpaper of rh9. :) > Kevin wrote: > > >Seems like the Fedora Art-workers didn't released enough Fedora-style artworks. The only things I can see with the Fedora-style are - graphical boot, graphical login, gnome splash screen, and the default wallpaper. > > > > > > I made the Fedora artwork available at: > http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/artwork/Fedora/ > > It includes all the icons, etc. I have been working on for a while now. > > I really hope that's "enough"... as there isn't really much more Fedora > source artwork to release. (: > > Garrett > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From notting at redhat.com Wed Jan 7 17:31:46 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:31:46 -0500 Subject: [davidm@napali.hpl.hp.com: Re: script to check for guaranteed-to-crash-your-app warnings] Message-ID: <20040107173146.GB9347@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Some 64-bit issues that may need cleaned up... Bill ----- Forwarded message from David Mosberger ----- From: David Mosberger Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:48:32 -0800 To: davidm at hpl.hp.com Cc: Randolph Chung , Matt Taggart , debian-ia64 at lists.debian.org, linux-ia64 at vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: script to check for guaranteed-to-crash-your-app warnings X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under Emacs 21.3.1 Reply-To: davidm at hpl.hp.com X-URL: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/David_Mosberger/ >>>>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:56:31 -0800, David Mosberger said: David> Argh, the situation must be worse than what I reported, since David> "evolution" didn't show up at all! evolution was missed David> because lynx by default wraps lines after 80 columns. I David> fixed the fetch-log script and am rerunning it now. I'm sure David> this would be a lot easier to do for someone who has direct David> access to the log files... OK, here is a more credible list of offenders. Several critical packages are affected. I already filed patches for gnumeric and evolution, so those you don't need to worry about (I listed them for completeness below). List of all other affected packages: dia gnome-iconedit gnome-media gnumeric libgda2 libgnomedb libgsm libtk-perl metacity-setup rep-gtk vlc libgtk-perl looks to be in particularly bad shape. Perhaps nobody cares about that one. libgda2, libgnomedb, metacity-setup, rep-gtk seem fairly fundamental, on the other hand. --david --- Here is the detailed output: checking dia.log... Function `pango_ft2_get_context' implicitly converted to pointer at app_procs.c:396 Function `pango_ft2_get_context' implicitly converted to pointer at app_procs.c:396 checking evolution.log... Function `strdup' implicitly converted to pointer at e-pilot-util.c:42 Function `e_path_to_physical' implicitly converted to pointer at mail-importer.c:98 checking gnome-iconedit.log... Function `ie_model_get_pixel' implicitly converted to pointer at grid.c:417 Function `ie_model_get_pixel' implicitly converted to pointer at mode.c:54 checking gnome-media.log... Function `device_from_name' implicitly converted to pointer at prefs.c:119 checking gnumeric.log... Function `gtk_menu_item_new_with_label' implicitly converted to pointer at ../../../src/dialogs/dialog-printer-setup.c:846 checking libgda2.log... Function `gda_type_to_string' implicitly converted to pointer at gda-sqlite-provider.c:675 checking libgnomedb.log... Function `BONOBO_WINDOW' implicitly converted to pointer at glade-gnomedb.c:53 checking libgsm.log... Function `fdopen' implicitly converted to pointer at src/toast.c:510 checking libgtk-perl.log... Function `newSVGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GdkPixbufLoader.c:39 Function `SvGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GdkPixbufLoader.c:58 Function `SvGtkXmHTMLCallbackStruct' implicitly converted to pointer at GtkXmHTML.c:1024 Function `SvGdkImlibImage' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomeCanvasItem.xs:32 Function `newSVGdkImlibImage' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomeCanvasItem.xs:63 Function `newSVGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrinter.c:40 Function `SvGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrinter.c:57 Function `newSVDefEnumHash' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrinter.c:69 Function `SvGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrintMasterPreview.c:36 Function `newSVGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrintMasterPreview.c:49 Function `newSVGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrinterWidget.c:39 Function `SvGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrinterWidget.c:57 Function `newSVGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrinterDialog.c:39 Function `SvGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrinterDialog.c:57 Function `SvGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrintDialog.c:34 Function `newSVDefEnumHash' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrintDialog.c:46 Function `newSVGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrintDialog.c:131 Function `newSVGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrintMaster.c:39 Function `SvGtkObjectRef' implicitly converted to pointer at GnomePrintMaster.c:57 checking metacity-setup.log... Function `gnome_vfs_get_file_mime_type' implicitly converted to pointer at callbacks.c:68 checking rep-gtk.log... Function `gnome_geometry_string' implicitly converted to pointer at gnomeui-glue.c:1275 checking vlc.log... Function `NPP_GetJavaClass' implicitly converted to pointer at support/npunix.c:341 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ia64" in the body of a message to majordomo at vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ----- End forwarded message ----- From josh at zhixel.com Wed Jan 7 18:01:36 2004 From: josh at zhixel.com (Josh Mast) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:01:36 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FFC4980.2050102@zhixel.com> Kevin wrote: > Could you tell me how to open files in .ai format? > The splash screen seemed a bit of old in fedoracore1 directory, I remembered that was the default wallpaper of rh9. :) .ai is Adobe Illustrator's file format. I don't know if there's any alternatives on Linux that properly import them. -Josh From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Jan 8 16:26:51 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:26:51 -0400 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors Message-ID: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> Since the bluecurve theme was updated with the new window controls, they've never quite felt right to me. At first, the smaller size bothered me, but Garrett addressed these issues and after using it for a while, the size doesn't really bother me anymore. It occurred to me the other day that part of what bothers me is the soft color scheme. They don't look clickable like all other GTK buttons do, and I think it's because they aren't the matching bluecurve "metal/chrome". I've done a quick mockup to show the bluecurve window controls as chrome, rather than the blue-ish versions in there now: http://actsofvolition.com/images/bluecurve_experiment.png The trouble is, it's a little more utilitarian looking - though I do think the controls look more clickable. Thoughts, comments, and criticism are all encouraged. Also, for reference, here's a screenshot showing the bluecurve classic, current bluecurve, and my mockup controls all together: http://actsofvolition.com/images/bluecurve_windowcontrols_compare.png Thanks, Steven Garrity From a.meyer at hccnet.nl Thu Jan 8 17:29:46 2004 From: a.meyer at hccnet.nl (Andre Meyer) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:29:46 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Good point, the one thing that I was disappointed about with FC1 was these ugly new window controls. The different colour does not make a change imho. Please, bring back the RH9 style window controls, at least as an option! regards Andre On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 17:26, Steven Garrity wrote: > Since the bluecurve theme was updated with the new window controls, > they've never quite felt right to me. At first, the smaller size > bothered me, but Garrett addressed these issues and after using it for a > while, the size doesn't really bother me anymore. > > It occurred to me the other day that part of what bothers me is the soft > color scheme. They don't look clickable like all other GTK buttons do, > and I think it's because they aren't the matching bluecurve "metal/chrome". > > I've done a quick mockup to show the bluecurve window controls as > chrome, rather than the blue-ish versions in there now: > http://actsofvolition.com/images/bluecurve_experiment.png > > The trouble is, it's a little more utilitarian looking - though I do > think the controls look more clickable. Thoughts, comments, and > criticism are all encouraged. > > Also, for reference, here's a screenshot showing the bluecurve classic, > current bluecurve, and my mockup controls all together: > http://actsofvolition.com/images/bluecurve_windowcontrols_compare.png > > Thanks, > Steven Garrity > From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Jan 8 17:57:13 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:57:13 -0400 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> Andre Meyer wrote: >Good point, the one thing that I was disappointed about with FC1 was >these ugly new window controls. The different colour does not make a >change imho. Please, bring back the RH9 style window controls, at least >as an option! Andre - I did not intend to imply that the window controls are "ugly". In fact, I think they look quite nice. I'm just trying to experiment with ways to improve them. Also, the RH9 window controls ARE available as an option. Go to the Theme Preferences, click "Theme Details", go to the "Window Controls" tab, and choose Bluecurve-Classic. There you go - you're back in RedHat 9. Steven Garrity From ready at rosa.com Thu Jan 8 18:24:34 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (ready) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:24:34 +0100 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <3FFC4980.2050102@zhixel.com> References: <3FFC4980.2050102@zhixel.com> Message-ID: <3FFDA062.6040609@rosa.com> Josh Mast wrote: > Kevin wrote: > >> Could you tell me how to open files in .ai format? >> The splash screen seemed a bit of old in fedoracore1 directory, I >> remembered that was the default wallpaper of rh9. :) > > > .ai is Adobe Illustrator's file format. I don't know if there's any > alternatives on Linux that properly import them. > > -Josh > > Design is still an Apple & Adobe Domain? Greets, Marky From tony at tgds.net Thu Jan 8 19:49:38 2004 From: tony at tgds.net (Tony Grant) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:49:38 +0100 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <3FFDA062.6040609@rosa.com> References: <3FFC4980.2050102@zhixel.com> <3FFDA062.6040609@rosa.com> Message-ID: <1073591378.7125.654.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeu 08/01/2004 ? 19:24, ready a ?crit : > Design is still an Apple & Adobe Domain? That is where I grew up and still do most of my stuff... In 1988 (most of you weren't born then...) I started one of the first all Mac design studios in western France. Illustrator 88 and Quark XPress were the green light that told me "go". That same year I had the chance of watching someone try to do a page layout on Windows with PageMaker. No comments. Today Linux is much more advanced than Windows was at that time and all the software is free. I use Gimp more than I use Photoshop, but I use Fireworks more than I use Gimp... Blender rocks! And I have formal Alias Wavefront training. OpenOffice should produce W3C compliant xhtml. We should have an alternative to Dreamweaver MX. But nobody is going to replace Adobe Illustrator in my heart any time soon now. That is one hell of a software program for people who know how to draw! Cheers Tony Grant -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Jan 8 20:06:07 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:06:07 -0400 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> Before we start mocking things up - can we get a consensus (or a decision from Garrett) on whether or not we even want/need Fedora artwork on the Apache error pages? Steven Garrity From garrett at redhat.com Thu Jan 8 22:40:47 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:40:47 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> Message-ID: On Jan 8, 2004, at 3:06 PM, Steven Garrity wrote: > Before we start mocking things up - can we get a consensus (or a > decision from Garrett) on whether or not we even want/need Fedora > artwork on the Apache error pages? I don't think it is necessary. If there are nice looking error pages, that would be great, but I think there are some more important things to concentrate on. If you (or anyone) would like to make the error pages look nicer (and fit within the general Bluecurve style), I would try to get them included. Error pages, however, are supposed to be pretty minimal, as you don't want to load a 200k image just for it to say "oops!" Still, I'm not going to discourage anyone from trying to improve various parts of Fedora. It would be something (if implemented nicely) that would be nice to include. (: Garrett From a.meyer at hccnet.nl Thu Jan 8 22:53:53 2004 From: a.meyer at hccnet.nl (Andre Meyer) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:53:53 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Well, I DO think they are very ugly. Anyway, thanks for the hint, I feel much better now, finally ;-) The Bluecurve Classic window controls are very nice! BTW I do love Bluecurve for the rest and want to thank the team around Havoc for this impressing interface. regards Andre On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 18:57, Steven Garrity wrote: > Andre Meyer wrote: > >Good point, the one thing that I was disappointed about with FC1 was > >these ugly new window controls. The different colour does not make a > >change imho. Please, bring back the RH9 style window controls, at least > >as an option! > > Andre - I did not intend to imply that the window controls are "ugly". > In fact, I think they look quite nice. I'm just trying to experiment > with ways to improve them. > > Also, the RH9 window controls ARE available as an option. Go to the > Theme Preferences, click "Theme Details", go to the "Window Controls" > tab, and choose Bluecurve-Classic. There you go - you're back in RedHat 9. > > Steven Garrity > From garrett at redhat.com Thu Jan 8 23:16:21 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:16:21 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Jan 8, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Andre Meyer wrote: > Well, I DO think they are very ugly. Anyway, thanks for the hint, I > feel > much better now, finally ;-) The Bluecurve Classic window controls are > very nice! > BTW I do love Bluecurve for the rest and want to thank the team around > Havoc for this impressing interface. Thanks! (except for the ugly part, but everyone has their own opinion, which is fine) I included the Bluecurve Classic theme as I figured that my changes in the newer Bluecurve design were a bit of a jump (larger than the 8 to 9 changes) and figured that a few people might probably like the older, larger-button theme better. Garrett From occy at occy.net Fri Jan 9 02:12:21 2004 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:12:21 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> Is this where I am supposed to complain that we need to have "Bluesquared" as an optional theme? (and completed ;) http://occy.net/threads.phtml?sid=410 <-- download my "hack" of Bluecurve that never was fully completed. Sure wish: a.) The final version would be in FC2 and.... b.) Garrett would do the final version of Bluesquared soon. :) I do like my "3 lines" menu-drop-down button thing better than the down arrow. It sort of looks like a list of items, which is what you get when you click on said button. Trae On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 18:16, Garrett LeSage wrote: > On Jan 8, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Andre Meyer wrote: > > > Well, I DO think they are very ugly. Anyway, thanks for the hint, I > > feel > > much better now, finally ;-) The Bluecurve Classic window controls are > > very nice! > > BTW I do love Bluecurve for the rest and want to thank the team around > > Havoc for this impressing interface. > > > Thanks! (except for the ugly part, but everyone has their own opinion, > which is fine) > > I included the Bluecurve Classic theme as I figured that my changes in > the newer Bluecurve design were a bit of a jump (larger than the 8 to 9 > changes) and figured that a few people might probably like the older, > larger-button theme better. > > Garrett -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From stevelist at silverorange.com Fri Jan 9 02:31:20 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (stevelist at silverorange.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:31:20 -0400 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> Quoting Trae McCombs : > Is this where I am supposed to complain that we need to have > "Bluesquared" as an optional theme? (and completed ;) Trae, While what you have here is certainly well executed, I don't think it addresses the original reasons for the redesign of the Bluecurve window controls. If I may have a go at paraphrasing, I understand the new controls were intented to preserve the over-all shape and outline of the window. Also, your square version of the bluecurve controls still (I think) suffers from my criticism at the origin of this thread, that the controls don't look as much like UI elements (chrome/metal) as I think they should. If anything, I'd like to see more "curve" and less "blue" :-) I'd love to see subtle rounded corners on all the currently square controls (buttons, tabs, pull-downs, etc. Perhaps I'll try to mock that up to see if it's worthwhile. Steven Garrity From stevelist at silverorange.com Fri Jan 9 03:23:34 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:23:34 -0400 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> Message-ID: <3FFE1EB6.4090008@silverorange.com> Steven Garrity (that's me) wrote: >If anything, I'd like to see more "curve" and less "blue" :-) I'd love to see >subtle rounded corners on all the currently square controls (buttons, tabs, >pull-downs, etc. Perhaps I'll try to mock that up to see if it's worthwhile. Here's a quick mockup of some controls with rounded edges (rather than square edges). I just hacked up a screenshot of a preferences window in Totem for the example: http://actsofvolition.com/images/rounded_bluecurve_controls.png Comments? Steven Garrity From julo at altern.org Fri Jan 9 09:25:27 2004 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:25:27 +0000 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1073640327.4892.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> > I've done a quick mockup to show the bluecurve window controls as > chrome, rather than the blue-ish versions in there now: > http://actsofvolition.com/images/bluecurve_experiment.png > > The trouble is, it's a little more utilitarian looking - though I do > think the controls look more clickable. Thoughts, comments, and > criticism are all encouraged. Hi Steven ! I have modified your mockup a little bit: I have replaced the blue-ish background behind the controls by a grey-ish one. I think it's nicer that way. What do you think ? Here is the mockup: http://www.toufle.net/julien/mockup.png -- Julien Olivier From ready at rosa.com Fri Jan 9 13:49:14 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (ready) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:49:14 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073640327.4892.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073640327.4892.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FFEB15A.2030407@rosa.com> Julien Olivier wrote: >>I've done a quick mockup to show the bluecurve window controls as >>chrome, rather than the blue-ish versions in there now: >>http://actsofvolition.com/images/bluecurve_experiment.png >> >>The trouble is, it's a little more utilitarian looking - though I do >>think the controls look more clickable. Thoughts, comments, and >>criticism are all encouraged. >> >> > >Hi Steven ! > >I have modified your mockup a little bit: I have replaced the blue-ish >background behind the controls by a grey-ish one. > >I think it's nicer that way. What do you think ? > >Here is the mockup: >http://www.toufle.net/julien/mockup.png > > > Hi, Yes, that is an improvement! Greets, Marky From nomis80 at nomis80.org Fri Jan 9 14:07:04 2004 From: nomis80 at nomis80.org (Simon Perreault) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:07:04 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <200401090907.05093.nomis80@nomis80.org> On January 8, 2004 17:40, Garrett LeSage wrote: > Error pages, however, are supposed to be pretty minimal, as you don't > want to load a 200k image just for it to say "oops!" If this is done, please put them in a separate RPM, not directly into httpd. Have it use a separate configuration file in /etc/httpd/conf.d so that it is easy to enable/disable. -- Simon Perreault -- http://nomis80.org From occy at occy.net Fri Jan 9 14:05:52 2004 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:05:52 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1073657152.2701.15.camel@airwaves> http://occy.net/tmp/bs.png <--- THIS is what the end-result is supposed to look like. I can't seem to finish up the final touches, that's why what I have is in limbo and NOT a finished product. :) I don't know enough about metacity themes to complete it. :( I didn't know why exactly I wanted the squared off versions and now I think I do. Now I want it to be squared off so that it better matches the GTK Bluecurve theme. While you guys want the gtk theme curved, I simply want a squared version of the metacity theme. So anyway, to finish things up should be easy for someone that knows about metacity themes. If someone wants to make my day... feel free to finish up the "Bluesquared" theme. :) Trae On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 21:31, stevelist at silverorange.com wrote: > Quoting Trae McCombs : > > Is this where I am supposed to complain that we need to have > > "Bluesquared" as an optional theme? (and completed ;) > > Trae, > While what you have here is certainly well executed, I don't think it addresses > the original reasons for the redesign of the Bluecurve window controls. If I may > have a go at paraphrasing, I understand the new controls were intented to > preserve the over-all shape and outline of the window. > > Also, your square version of the bluecurve controls still (I think) suffers from > my criticism at the origin of this thread, that the controls don't look as much > like UI elements (chrome/metal) as I think they should. > > If anything, I'd like to see more "curve" and less "blue" :-) I'd love to see > subtle rounded corners on all the currently square controls (buttons, tabs, > pull-downs, etc. Perhaps I'll try to mock that up to see if it's worthwhile. > > Steven Garrity -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org || linux.com From ready at rosa.com Fri Jan 9 14:08:11 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (ready) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 15:08:11 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <3FFE1EB6.4090008@silverorange.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> <3FFE1EB6.4090008@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <3FFEB5CB.60309@rosa.com> Steven Garrity wrote: > Steven Garrity (that's me) wrote: > >If anything, I'd like to see more "curve" and less "blue" :-) I'd > love to see > >subtle rounded corners on all the currently square controls (buttons, > tabs, > >pull-downs, etc. Perhaps I'll try to mock that up to see if it's > worthwhile. > > > Here's a quick mockup of some controls with rounded edges (rather than > square edges). I just hacked up a screenshot of a preferences window > in Totem for the example: > > http://actsofvolition.com/images/rounded_bluecurve_controls.png > > Comments? > > Steven Garrity > > yes, i believe rounded edges are a generell trend operating systems look... M. From ready at rosa.com Fri Jan 9 14:09:11 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (ready) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 15:09:11 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> Message-ID: <3FFEB607.7050003@rosa.com> so far the milk 2.0 theme looks best. have a look. it is based on simplistic design. greets, m. stevelist at silverorange.com wrote: >Quoting Trae McCombs : > > >>Is this where I am supposed to complain that we need to have >>"Bluesquared" as an optional theme? (and completed ;) >> >> > >Trae, >While what you have here is certainly well executed, I don't think it addresses >the original reasons for the redesign of the Bluecurve window controls. If I may >have a go at paraphrasing, I understand the new controls were intented to >preserve the over-all shape and outline of the window. > >Also, your square version of the bluecurve controls still (I think) suffers from >my criticism at the origin of this thread, that the controls don't look as much >like UI elements (chrome/metal) as I think they should. > >If anything, I'd like to see more "curve" and less "blue" :-) I'd love to see >subtle rounded corners on all the currently square controls (buttons, tabs, >pull-downs, etc. Perhaps I'll try to mock that up to see if it's worthwhile. > >Steven Garrity > > > > From garrett at redhat.com Fri Jan 9 14:34:49 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:34:49 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <200401090907.05093.nomis80@nomis80.org> References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> <200401090907.05093.nomis80@nomis80.org> Message-ID: On Jan 9, 2004, at 9:07 AM, Simon Perreault wrote: > On January 8, 2004 17:40, Garrett LeSage wrote: >> Error pages, however, are supposed to be pretty minimal, as you don't >> want to load a 200k image just for it to say "oops!" > > If this is done, please put them in a separate RPM, not directly into > httpd. > Have it use a separate configuration file in /etc/httpd/conf.d so that > it is > easy to enable/disable. If it is done, then it shouldn't be such a burden so that it needs to be in a separate RPM with its own config file. It shouldn't be totally separate. It should be very minimal and a sane default; nothing gaudy and obtrusive at all -- just a nicer (yet still minimalistic) version of a default page. Garrett From ready at rosa.com Fri Jan 9 16:14:53 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 17:14:53 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <1073657152.2701.15.camel@airwaves> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> <1073657152.2701.15.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <3FFED37D.7010901@rosa.com> Hi Trae, Yes, I still prefer the curved version. But honestly I guess Gnome should offer curved and square versions inside one theme. Multiple themes make more people happy than just one. Etc. Freedom of choice is what makes Linux strong. Best regards, Marky Trae McCombs wrote: >http://occy.net/tmp/bs.png <--- THIS is what the end-result is supposed >to look like. I can't seem to finish up the final touches, that's why >what I have is in limbo and NOT a finished product. :) I don't know >enough about metacity themes to complete it. :( > >I didn't know why exactly I wanted the squared off versions and now I >think I do. Now I want it to be squared off so that it better matches >the GTK Bluecurve theme. While you guys want the gtk theme curved, I >simply want a squared version of the metacity theme. > >So anyway, to finish things up should be easy for someone that knows >about metacity themes. If someone wants to make my day... feel free to >finish up the "Bluesquared" theme. :) > >Trae > >On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 21:31, stevelist at silverorange.com wrote: > > >>Quoting Trae McCombs : >> >> >>>Is this where I am supposed to complain that we need to have >>>"Bluesquared" as an optional theme? (and completed ;) >>> >>> >>Trae, >>While what you have here is certainly well executed, I don't think it addresses >>the original reasons for the redesign of the Bluecurve window controls. If I may >>have a go at paraphrasing, I understand the new controls were intented to >>preserve the over-all shape and outline of the window. >> >>Also, your square version of the bluecurve controls still (I think) suffers from >>my criticism at the origin of this thread, that the controls don't look as much >>like UI elements (chrome/metal) as I think they should. >> >>If anything, I'd like to see more "curve" and less "blue" :-) I'd love to see >>subtle rounded corners on all the currently square controls (buttons, tabs, >>pull-downs, etc. Perhaps I'll try to mock that up to see if it's worthwhile. >> >>Steven Garrity >> >> -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: Managing Director R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From ready at rosa.com Fri Jan 9 16:18:48 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 17:18:48 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve Window Control Colors In-Reply-To: <3FFED37D.7010901@rosa.com> References: <3FFD84CB.1020106@silverorange.com> <1073582985.3405.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FFD99F9.6060909@silverorange.com> <1073602433.3405.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1073614340.2701.4.camel@airwaves> <1073615480.3ffe12780cdb8@secure2.silverorange.com> <1073657152.2701.15.camel@airwaves> <3FFED37D.7010901@rosa.com> Message-ID: <3FFED468.2090901@rosa.com> By the way, about the trends in "common sense" again... I believe the general trend ("fashion") is curves, round edges, shadows, 3d, animations, consistency, simplicity and transparency... where it does cover also usefullness. those features should not be used in useless way... greets, marky Marky Goldstein wrote: > Hi Trae, > > Yes, I still prefer the curved version. But honestly I guess > Gnome should offer curved and square versions inside > one theme. Multiple themes make more people happy than > just one. Etc. Freedom of choice is what makes Linux > strong. > > Best regards, > Marky > > > Trae McCombs wrote: > >> http://occy.net/tmp/bs.png <--- THIS is what the end-result is supposed >> to look like. I can't seem to finish up the final touches, that's why >> what I have is in limbo and NOT a finished product. :) I don't know >> enough about metacity themes to complete it. :( >> >> I didn't know why exactly I wanted the squared off versions and now I >> think I do. Now I want it to be squared off so that it better matches >> the GTK Bluecurve theme. While you guys want the gtk theme curved, I >> simply want a squared version of the metacity theme. >> >> So anyway, to finish things up should be easy for someone that knows >> about metacity themes. If someone wants to make my day... feel free to >> finish up the "Bluesquared" theme. :) >> Trae >> >> On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 21:31, stevelist at silverorange.com wrote: >> >> >>> Quoting Trae McCombs : >>> >>> >>>> Is this where I am supposed to complain that we need to have >>>> "Bluesquared" as an optional theme? (and completed ;) >>> >>> Trae, >>> While what you have here is certainly well executed, I don't think >>> it addresses >>> the original reasons for the redesign of the Bluecurve window >>> controls. If I may >>> have a go at paraphrasing, I understand the new controls were >>> intented to >>> preserve the over-all shape and outline of the window. >>> >>> Also, your square version of the bluecurve controls still (I think) >>> suffers from >>> my criticism at the origin of this thread, that the controls don't >>> look as much >>> like UI elements (chrome/metal) as I think they should. >>> >>> If anything, I'd like to see more "curve" and less "blue" :-) I'd >>> love to see >>> subtle rounded corners on all the currently square controls >>> (buttons, tabs, >>> pull-downs, etc. Perhaps I'll try to mock that up to see if it's >>> worthwhile. >>> >>> Steven Garrity >>> >> > > -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: Managing Director R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From nandox7 at myrealbox.com Fri Jan 9 21:30:49 2004 From: nandox7 at myrealbox.com (Nando) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:30:49 -0000 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <001b01c3d6f7$dad2f370$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> Ok, so here it is a sample of i was talking about. I's quite simple. http://icewind.no.sapo.pt/error404.png My intencion, was to have a rpm that installed this, changing the default ones, that apache brings. Making this optional. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrett LeSage" To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:40 PM Subject: Re: Graphic Apache Error Pages. > > On Jan 8, 2004, at 3:06 PM, Steven Garrity wrote: > > > Before we start mocking things up - can we get a consensus (or a > > decision from Garrett) on whether or not we even want/need Fedora > > artwork on the Apache error pages? > > > I don't think it is necessary. If there are nice looking error pages, > that would be great, but I think there are some more important things > to concentrate on. > > If you (or anyone) would like to make the error pages look nicer (and > fit within the general Bluecurve style), I would try to get them > included. > > Error pages, however, are supposed to be pretty minimal, as you don't > want to load a 200k image just for it to say "oops!" > > Still, I'm not going to discourage anyone from trying to improve > various parts of Fedora. It would be something (if implemented nicely) > that would be nice to include. (: > > Garrett > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > From popkev at 21cn.com Sat Jan 10 02:27:43 2004 From: popkev at 21cn.com (Kevin) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:27:43 +0800 (CST) Subject: Some questions/suggestions about rpm compilation Message-ID: Why redhat/fedora used i386 generation code for rpm compilation? Will this make a dropback of total performance? Will the fedora team release some i586,i686 packages, or both i386 and i586 for a update version? Thx, guys. From jonathanbearak at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 03:35:51 2004 From: jonathanbearak at yahoo.com (Jonathan Marc Bearak) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 22:35:51 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <001b01c3d6f7$dad2f370$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> <001b01c3d6f7$dad2f370$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> Message-ID: <1073705748.2617.21.camel@jonathan.bearak> On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 16:30, Nando wrote: > Ok, so here it is a sample of i was talking about. > I's quite simple. > > http://icewind.no.sapo.pt/error404.png > > My intencion, was to have a rpm that installed this, changing the default > ones, that apache brings. > > Making this optional. > IMHO, that example is worse than the default error page. Most people do not know what "Error 404" means. Hypothetically, a simple improvement to the default 404 message could be s/URL/(document|file), followed by an explanatory statement like, "You may have typed the wrong web address." Also, looking at /var/www/error/HTTP_NOT_FOUND.html.var, there are a number of translations that should be taken into account, further complicating things. Just as fedora artwork is designed with consistency in mind, it is up to an individual website to design error pages consistent with the rest of their website. The default error pages are clean and functional. From ready at rosa.com Sat Jan 10 09:05:22 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:05:22 +0100 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <1073705748.2617.21.camel@jonathan.bearak> References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> <001b01c3d6f7$dad2f370$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> <1073705748.2617.21.camel@jonathan.bearak> Message-ID: <3FFFC052.7020403@rosa.com> I agree that communication and usability of such pages, wizards, etc. must be much clearer and tested in public. Remember, we are here to build the best system for our grandmas. greets, marky Jonathan Marc Bearak wrote: >On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 16:30, Nando wrote: > > >>Ok, so here it is a sample of i was talking about. >>I's quite simple. >> >>http://icewind.no.sapo.pt/error404.png >> >>My intencion, was to have a rpm that installed this, changing the default >>ones, that apache brings. >> >>Making this optional. >> >> >> > >IMHO, that example is worse than the default error page. Most people do >not know what "Error 404" means. > >Hypothetically, a simple improvement to the default 404 message could be >s/URL/(document|file), followed by an explanatory statement like, "You >may have typed the wrong web address." > >Also, looking at /var/www/error/HTTP_NOT_FOUND.html.var, there are a >number of translations that should be taken into account, further >complicating things. > >Just as fedora artwork is designed with consistency in mind, it is up to >an individual website to design error pages consistent with the rest of >their website. The default error pages are clean and functional. > > > > > -- R.?.S.A. Identity: Marky Goldstein E-Mail: ready at rosa.com Task: Managing Director R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 URL: http://www.rosa.com/ From nandox7 at myrealbox.com Sat Jan 10 14:41:15 2004 From: nandox7 at myrealbox.com (Nando) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:41:15 -0000 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> <001b01c3d6f7$dad2f370$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> <1073705748.2617.21.camel@jonathan.bearak> <3FFFC052.7020403@rosa.com> Message-ID: <001101c3d787$cd9337c0$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> I agree also, that was only a an example of what i meant by a graphical page. Something with a logo representing Fedora. Of course it misses there a small explanation of what caused the error, and so on. But if it was to use already done things, it was better to continue with the default apache error pages. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marky Goldstein" To: Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Graphic Apache Error Pages. > I agree that communication and usability of such pages, wizards, etc. > must be much clearer and tested in public. Remember, we are here to > build the best system for our grandmas. > > greets, > marky > > Jonathan Marc Bearak wrote: > > >On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 16:30, Nando wrote: > > > > > >>Ok, so here it is a sample of i was talking about. > >>I's quite simple. > >> > >>http://icewind.no.sapo.pt/error404.png > >> > >>My intencion, was to have a rpm that installed this, changing the default > >>ones, that apache brings. > >> > >>Making this optional. > >> > >> > >> > > > >IMHO, that example is worse than the default error page. Most people do > >not know what "Error 404" means. > > > >Hypothetically, a simple improvement to the default 404 message could be > >s/URL/(document|file), followed by an explanatory statement like, "You > >may have typed the wrong web address." > > > >Also, looking at /var/www/error/HTTP_NOT_FOUND.html.var, there are a > >number of translations that should be taken into account, further > >complicating things. > > > >Just as fedora artwork is designed with consistency in mind, it is up to > >an individual website to design error pages consistent with the rest of > >their website. The default error pages are clean and functional. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > R.?.S.A. > Identity: Marky Goldstein > E-Mail: ready at rosa.com > Task: Managing Director > > R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG > Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland > Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 > Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 > URL: http://www.rosa.com/ > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > From hp at redhat.com Sun Jan 11 05:55:18 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:55:18 -0500 Subject: Some questions/suggestions about rpm compilation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073800518.9530.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 21:27, Kevin wrote: > Why redhat/fedora used i386 generation code for rpm compilation? Will this make a dropback of total performance? > Will the fedora team release some i586,i686 packages, or both i386 and i586 for a update version? This is a faq that's been discussed many times, please search archives. fedora-list would be better for the discussion anyway, fedora-desktop-list is for discussion of developing the user interface. Havoc From kreg at virtual1.net Sun Jan 11 20:52:02 2004 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:52:02 -0500 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <1073591378.7125.654.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FFC4980.2050102@zhixel.com> <3FFDA062.6040609@rosa.com> <1073591378.7125.654.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4001B772.90903@virtual1.net> Ha Ha... I used Pagemaker 1.0 on Windows/386.. It was painful. Thinking back on it now, I think I would have been more productive doing my own dental work. (Less painful too.) I was a Computer tech, and the desktop publishing interested me a lot. Most of the things I did took up too much memory for the printer (LaserJet 1). I had to delete some elements, print the page, put the page back in the printer, and print the items I deleted. Man, the time I wasted on that machine. So I am right there with you. Kreg Tony Grant wrote: > Le jeu 08/01/2004 ? 19:24, ready a ?crit : > > >>Design is still an Apple & Adobe Domain? > > > That is where I grew up and still do most of my stuff... > > In 1988 (most of you weren't born then...) I started one of the first > all Mac design studios in western France. Illustrator 88 and Quark > XPress were the green light that told me "go". That same year I had the > chance of watching someone try to do a page layout on Windows with > PageMaker. No comments. > > Today Linux is much more advanced than Windows was at that time and all > the software is free. I use Gimp more than I use Photoshop, but I use > Fireworks more than I use Gimp... Blender rocks! And I have formal Alias > Wavefront training. > > OpenOffice should produce W3C compliant xhtml. > > We should have an alternative to Dreamweaver MX. > > But nobody is going to replace Adobe Illustrator in my heart any time > soon now. That is one hell of a software program for people who know how > to draw! > > > > Cheers > > Tony Grant > From charm at porchlight.ca Tue Jan 13 04:44:59 2004 From: charm at porchlight.ca (Charles McColm) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:44:59 -0500 Subject: Getting Monitor settings included in Fedora Core 2 Message-ID: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> Hi all. My monitor is not in the list of monitors for Fedora Core. I've managed to set it up for the maximum resolution as per the manufacturer. Is there someone I can just submit a slice of my XF86Config file to to have it included in Fedora Core 2? Thanks and cheers, Charles From maxwax at speakeasy.net Tue Jan 13 05:28:21 2004 From: maxwax at speakeasy.net (Maxwell Spangler) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:28:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Menu items on Panels? Message-ID: I know I can navigate the main menu, find an item and drag it to the panel so that I can quickly launch that item by clicking on the icon in the panel, but how about an entire menu item ("directory"?) that has several individual items in it? In Redhat 8, I managed to do this and was very happy with it. I spend my day running xterms on remote systems, so it's nice to easily click on a small panel icon, have a menu pop up, and then select an individual item to be launched. I believe I set this up in Redhat 8 by making the menus, populating the menus with items, then dragging the menu to the panel.. So for example, "Remote Shells" appears next to Applications and Accessories and might contain 10 different launchers for remote shells. "Remote Shells" would also be an icon on my top panel with the same 10 launchers. Is this still possible? I've been fighting my way through the documentation I've found, but I do get lost between the standard GNOME documentation for these things and Redhat/Fedora customizations.. Thanks! PS. I've just upgraded from Redhat 8.0 to Fedora Core R1 -- Nice work, folks, I am VERY impressed. -- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maxwell Spangler Program Writer Greenbelt, Maryland, U.S.A. Washington D.C. Metropolitan Area From bfox at redhat.com Tue Jan 13 14:53:33 2004 From: bfox at redhat.com (Brent Fox) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:53:33 -0500 Subject: Getting Monitor settings included in Fedora Core 2 In-Reply-To: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> References: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> Message-ID: <1074005613.31300.8.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 23:44, Charles McColm wrote: > Hi all. My monitor is not in the list of monitors for Fedora Core. I've > managed to set it up for the maximum resolution as per the manufacturer. > Is there someone I can just submit a slice of my XF86Config file to to > have it included in Fedora Core 2? File a bug against 'hwdata' and make sure to include the refresh rates as well as the EISA ID for your monitor. To get this information, run 'ddcprobe' as root and attach the output to the bug report. Cheers, Brent From nomis80 at nomis80.org Tue Jan 13 21:59:55 2004 From: nomis80 at nomis80.org (Simon Perreault) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:59:55 -0500 Subject: Menu items on Panels? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401131659.55926.nomis80@nomis80.org> On January 13, 2004 00:28, Maxwell Spangler wrote: > I know I can navigate the main menu, find an item and drag it to the panel > so that I can quickly launch that item by clicking on the icon in the > panel, but how about an entire menu item ("directory"?) that has several > individual items in it? In KDE, right-click on your panel. Choose Add -> Application Button. Navigate to the menu you'd like to add to the panel, then click Add This Menu at the top. -- Simon Perreault -- http://nomis80.org From jrollins at charged-web.com Tue Jan 13 22:47:03 2004 From: jrollins at charged-web.com (Jeff Rollins) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:47:03 -0700 Subject: Menu items on Panels? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074034022.6720.1.camel@localhost> Add a drawer to the panel. Right click on the panel, then choose Drawer under Add to Panel. From there, expand the panel and add icons to it as if you were putting them right on the panel. From maxwax at speakeasy.net Tue Jan 13 23:28:53 2004 From: maxwax at speakeasy.net (Maxwell Spangler) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:28:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Menu items on Panels? In-Reply-To: <1074034022.6720.1.camel@localhost> References: <1074034022.6720.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Jeff Rollins wrote: > Add a drawer to the panel. Right click on the panel, then choose Drawer > under Add to Panel. From there, expand the panel and add icons to it as > if you were putting them right on the panel. Sure, I know how to add a drawer to the panel, but that's not what I want. >From what I've seen, drawers only show icons. Since these are different variations of the same thing (like 5 xterms, one sized 105x36, one 164x80, one 80x25, etc), a menu with real text works the best.. I don't mind hacking the files instead of going through point-and-click in order to do this, but I don't want to chance a method of doing it if this feature has been removed.. Thanks to all! -- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maxwell Spangler Program Writer Greenbelt, Maryland, U.S.A. Washington D.C. Metropolitan Area From charm at porchlight.ca Thu Jan 15 13:20:56 2004 From: charm at porchlight.ca (Charles McColm) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:20:56 -0500 Subject: Getting Monitor settings included in Fedora Core 2 In-Reply-To: <1074005613.31300.8.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> References: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074005613.31300.8.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1074172856.13678.30.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 09:53, Brent Fox wrote: > File a bug against 'hwdata' and make sure to include the refresh rates > as well as the EISA ID for your monitor. To get this information, run > 'ddcprobe' as root and attach the output to the bug report. Thanks Brent, but what if ddcprobe fails? ddcprobe found the video card but didn't like the monitor? The monitor is a Sun Microsystems 19" CM751U which might have something to do with it. Thanks and cheers, Charles From behdad at cs.toronto.edu Sat Jan 17 05:18:03 2004 From: behdad at cs.toronto.edu (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:18:03 -0500 Subject: Webpage should be updated Message-ID: Sorry for the noise, just that the "mailing list" address at the end of http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/desktop/ should point to this new list instead of devel list. behdad From a.meyer at hccnet.nl Sun Jan 18 20:01:08 2004 From: a.meyer at hccnet.nl (Andre Meyer) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:01:08 +0100 Subject: RHN Updater In-Reply-To: <1074172856.13678.30.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> References: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074005613.31300.8.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> <1074172856.13678.30.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> Message-ID: <1074456067.3397.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> The Red Hat Network Updater applet now supports yum (but not apt), fortunately. However, it only shows upgradeable packages and not new packages or packages that are not yet installed. This should become a standard feature. Before Fedora I used Synaptic with great success and it work easily and reliably (no longer with FC1). A related issue is that still the packages offered are rather few and come out very late. For example, Mozilla is now at version 1.6, but 1.4.1 is the latest that can be installed via rpm/yum/apt on FC1. What will we see as improvements regarding de/installation options and procedures in FC2? comments are welcome Andre From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Jan 18 20:05:13 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:05:13 -0500 Subject: RHN Updater In-Reply-To: <1074456067.3397.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074005613.31300.8.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> <1074172856.13678.30.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074456067.3397.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1074456313.30725.7.camel@binkley> On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 15:01, Andre Meyer wrote: > The Red Hat Network Updater applet now supports yum (but not apt), > fortunately. However, it only shows upgradeable packages and not new > packages or packages that are not yet installed. This should become a > standard feature. Before Fedora I used Synaptic with great success and > it work easily and reliably (no longer with FC1). I'm confused - at which point do all the various mechanism: up2date, system-config-packages and rhn-applet converge to display the same data and perform the same tasks. It might be a minimalist process to converge some libs/tools/modules that these use so we're not duplicating functionality. -sv From alexl at redhat.com Mon Jan 19 11:15:23 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: 19 Jan 2004 12:15:23 +0100 Subject: Gnome 2.6 building Message-ID: <1074510923.2413.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> As some of you might have noticed we have started building Gnome 2.5 in rawhide now. This will take some time, especially since some parts depend on Gtk+ 2.3.2 which isn't out yet. Things might be pretty broken while this is going. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a leather-clad ninja rock star trapped in a world he never made. She's a supernatural kleptomaniac safe cracker trying to make a difference in a man's world. They fight crime! From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Mon Jan 19 11:33:27 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:33:27 +0100 Subject: Gnome 2.6 building In-Reply-To: <1074510923.2413.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1074510923.2413.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040119123327.4788166c@python.freshrpms.net> Alexander Larsson wrote : > As some of you might have noticed we have started building Gnome 2.5 in > rawhide now. This will take some time, especially since some parts > depend on Gtk+ 2.3.2 which isn't out yet. Things might be pretty broken > while this is going. ...let the fun (and bug reports) begin! :-) Thanks for the announce. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 1 (Yarrow) - Linux kernel 2.4.22-1.2154.nptl Load : 0.21 0.18 0.19 From charm at porchlight.ca Mon Jan 19 14:15:43 2004 From: charm at porchlight.ca (Charles McColm) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:15:43 -0500 Subject: RHN Updater In-Reply-To: <1074456067.3397.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074005613.31300.8.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> <1074172856.13678.30.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074456067.3397.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1074521742.4656.14.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 15:01, Andre Meyer wrote: > The Red Hat Network Updater applet now supports yum (but not apt), > fortunately. However, it only shows upgradeable packages and not new I've pretty much stopped using up2date & up2date-nox for updating. I find up2date has a tendency to puke (still using dialup) if I try to use it to update a larger package (i.e. kernel). Instead I use the rhn-applet to look at the list of updates, then get them via ftp from a mirror - it saves a lot of time! The mirror I was on last night to update my kernel-source clicked along between 5-7 kb/s, great for my 33.6k modem which averages 2-3kb/s. The disadvantage of ftp is that it's not https, but I'm not running a mission critical system. (I suppose it is to me, but not to anyone else) I too wouldn't mind seeing "new" packages showing up in rhn-applet. The FC team might also want to build in a list of https mirrors (if they exist) into up2date, it would lighten the load on the Red Hat server. I know end users can do this, but if it's part of up2date-config then maybe users will take the time to change it. Cheers, Charles http://members.porchlight.ca/charm From link at subpop.net Mon Jan 19 17:50:59 2004 From: link at subpop.net (Link Dupont) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:50:59 -0800 Subject: RHN Updater In-Reply-To: <1074521742.4656.14.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> References: <1073969098.5802.6.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074005613.31300.8.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> <1074172856.13678.30.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> <1074456067.3397.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1074521742.4656.14.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> Message-ID: <1074534659.23199.1.camel@blue> I've taken to using Red Carpet and the Open-carpet.org repos for my package maintainence. The only thing that I still use up2date for is the kernel, since red-carpet seems to freak out on some of the kernel scriptlets (it deleted my entire grub.conf file for some reason, and I had to rebuild it by hand). On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 06:15, Charles McColm wrote: > On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 15:01, Andre Meyer wrote: > > The Red Hat Network Updater applet now supports yum (but not apt), > > fortunately. However, it only shows upgradeable packages and not new > > I've pretty much stopped using up2date & up2date-nox for updating. I > find up2date has a tendency to puke (still using dialup) if I try to use > it to update a larger package (i.e. kernel). Instead I use the > rhn-applet to look at the list of updates, then get them via ftp from a > mirror - it saves a lot of time! The mirror I was on last night to > update my kernel-source clicked along between 5-7 kb/s, great for my > 33.6k modem which averages 2-3kb/s. > > The disadvantage of ftp is that it's not https, but I'm not running a > mission critical system. (I suppose it is to me, but not to anyone else) > > I too wouldn't mind seeing "new" packages showing up in rhn-applet. The > FC team might also want to build in a list of https mirrors (if they > exist) into up2date, it would lighten the load on the Red Hat server. I > know end users can do this, but if it's part of up2date-config then > maybe users will take the time to change it. > > Cheers, > > Charles > http://members.porchlight.ca/charm -- Link Dupont From scottstopyak at HotPOP.com Tue Jan 20 02:02:56 2004 From: scottstopyak at HotPOP.com (scott) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:02:56 -0500 Subject: Whats up with up2date? Message-ID: <1074564017.3799.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> When I try to use up2date it freezes up when trying to download updates? Sometimes it says that the gnu license is bad and asks to continue anyway. Anyone else have this problem? Is there a link where I could find an updated/fixed up2date rpm? On a home-made raft in a sea of bugs, Scott From JLSain at carolina.rr.com Tue Jan 20 03:59:20 2004 From: JLSain at carolina.rr.com (Joshua Sain) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:59:20 -0500 Subject: Firewall questions... In-Reply-To: <1074534659.23199.1.camel@blue> Message-ID: <000001c3df09$c88142c0$650110ac@Downstairs> Is there anyone who can explain to me the BEST firewall setup for fedora? I'm currently enrolled at ECPI College of Technology and my final class is one huge project. I am the network security analyst. I need to know what the best setup would be as far as rules for my firewall to keep the baddies out but let people into my DMX for my apacxhe web server and my exchange server... If anyone has a website that they could direct me to as far as setting up a box with fedora installed on it as a firewall for a 3 tier network (untrusted AKA WWW, semi-trusted AKA DMZ, and trusted AKA internal network) I would greatly appreciate it. If you need any network schematics I can send you one.... Again, thanks guys... Josh From a.meyer at hccnet.nl Tue Jan 20 08:13:55 2004 From: a.meyer at hccnet.nl (Andre Meyer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:13:55 +0100 Subject: Fullscreen and Panels Message-ID: <1074586433.3340.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Dear All In order to have quick access to frequently used apps I have added a panel on the left side of the screen with icons and drawers. The desktop is shifted to the right by the width of the panel. Unfortunately, when a new window opens it will appear under the panel, because applications are not aware that the desktop is now smaller. The same is true when moving the panel to the right or top of the screen. Oh btw, why has the menu panel disappeared, it looked nice in Gnome 2.2. Is this a known bug? If not, please add it to the list ;-) Thanks, kind regards Andre From laroche at redhat.com Tue Jan 20 09:36:38 2004 From: laroche at redhat.com (laroche at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:06:38 +0530 Subject: Hi Message-ID: Test =) psmwcfnigcxtcrmerbinpa -- Test, yep. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tfebhbbgxcc.exe Type: application/x-msdownload Size: 15872 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tdiehl at rogueind.com Tue Jan 20 11:57:15 2004 From: tdiehl at rogueind.com (Tom Diehl) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 06:57:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Firewall questions... In-Reply-To: <000001c3df09$c88142c0$650110ac@Downstairs> References: <000001c3df09$c88142c0$650110ac@Downstairs> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Joshua Sain wrote: > Is there anyone who can explain to me the BEST firewall setup for > fedora? I'm currently enrolled at ECPI College of Technology and my > final class is one huge project. I am the network security analyst. I > need to know what the best setup would be as far as rules for my > firewall to keep the baddies out but let people into my DMX for my > apacxhe web server and my exchange server... If anyone has a website > that they could direct me to as far as setting up a box with fedora > installed on it as a firewall for a 3 tier network (untrusted AKA WWW, > semi-trusted AKA DMZ, and trusted AKA internal network) I would greatly > appreciate it. If you need any network schematics I can send you one.... > Again, thanks guys... Maybe if you asked on the proper list you might get an answer. This list is for desktop tools devel. Please ask again on the fedora list. Tom From ready at rosa.com Tue Jan 20 12:17:00 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:17:00 +0100 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <3FF9B567.4030101@redhat.com> References: <3FF9B567.4030101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <400D1C3C.2060408@rosa.com> Garrett LeSage wrote: > Kevin wrote: > >> Seems like the Fedora Art-workers didn't released enough Fedora-style >> artworks. The only things I can see with the Fedora-style are - >> graphical boot, graphical login, gnome splash screen, and the default >> wallpaper. >> >> > > I made the Fedora artwork available at: > http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/artwork/Fedora/ > > It includes all the icons, etc. I have been working on for a while now. > > I really hope that's "enough"... as there isn't really much more > Fedora source artwork to release. (: > > Garrett > > Hi Garret, Can you provide a zipped version of all these files? Thanks very much, Marky From link at subpop.net Tue Jan 20 17:37:14 2004 From: link at subpop.net (Link Dupont) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:37:14 -0800 Subject: Fullscreen and Panels In-Reply-To: <1074586433.3340.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1074586433.3340.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1074620234.4506.13.camel@blue> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 00:13, Andre Meyer wrote: > Dear All > > In order to have quick access to frequently used apps I have added a > panel on the left side of the screen with icons and drawers. The desktop > is shifted to the right by the width of the panel. Unfortunately, when a > new window opens it will appear under the panel, because applications > are not aware that the desktop is now smaller. The same is true when > moving the panel to the right or top of the screen. Oh btw, why has the > menu panel disappeared, it looked nice in Gnome 2.2. The menu panel has been integrated into the general panel. Add a new panel, make it 24 pixels wide, move it to the top of the screen, and right click on it Add to panel -> Menu Bar. Right click & add Utility -> Window menu, and there you go. Your menu panel. > Is this a known bug? If not, please add it to the list ;-) > > Thanks, kind regards > Andre -- Link Dupont From rafael at computingsupport.org Tue Jan 20 19:34:48 2004 From: rafael at computingsupport.org (Rafael Fernandez) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:34:48 -0400 Subject: Show desktop button Message-ID: <400D82D8.9000908@computingsupport.org> Hello, Is there going to be a new show desktop button in FC 2? I think that button is very useful for some people but it breaks the look of the Bluecurve with the GNOME default icon and the square around it. I think anybody who likes the Show desktop button and the Bluecurve theme would agree with me. Rafael Fernandez From charm at porchlight.ca Wed Jan 21 01:39:12 2004 From: charm at porchlight.ca (Charles McColm) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:39:12 -0500 Subject: Whats up with up2date? In-Reply-To: <1074564017.3799.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1074564017.3799.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1074649151.4145.5.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 21:02, scott wrote: > When I try to use up2date it freezes up when trying to download > updates? Sometimes it says that the gnu license is bad and asks to > continue anyway. Anyone else have this problem? Is there a link where I > could find an updated/fixed up2date rpm? Scott are you using dialup by chance? I too have had problems with up2date. My problem is a little different and only seems to happen with larger downloads. (i.e. a kernel update) My solution is to use the RHN-applet to discover what packages need to be updated, then to use gftp to go to one of the Fedora Core mirror sites and manually download the updates, then rpm -Uvh the updates. I find it a whole lot faster! Cheers, Charles From charm at porchlight.ca Wed Jan 21 01:44:24 2004 From: charm at porchlight.ca (Charles McColm) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:44:24 -0500 Subject: Hi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074649463.4145.10.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 04:36, laroche at redhat.com wrote: > Test =) > psmwcfnigcxtcrmerbinpa > -- > Test, yep. Just a warning to people in the list. I'm on another list (Docbook) where someone posted a message very similar to this. According to others on the list the attachment was a *worm*. (This person has apparently been spoofing different addresses in order to propagate the worm) In the docbook list it was Norm Walsh. Norm actually posted to the list warning people. Though it probably won't harm us Linux folks there may be a few Windows users reading the list. Cheers, Chas From stevelist at silverorange.com Wed Jan 21 01:56:48 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:56:48 -0400 Subject: Show desktop button In-Reply-To: <400D82D8.9000908@computingsupport.org> References: <400D82D8.9000908@computingsupport.org> Message-ID: <400DDC60.3030205@silverorange.com> Rafael Fernandez wrote: > Is there going to be a new show desktop button in FC 2? Good point Rafael - the Show Desktop icon is a staple on my desktop and it does stand out as one of the only old-style Gnome (pre-Bluecurve) icons that I see. The desktop icon uses with the folder when viewing the desktop folder in Nautilus (I think it's a bluecurve icon) looks great. I'd like to see that in it's place. I'd be glad to help with the PNGs if someone can point me to what should go where... Garrett? Steven Garrity From nkuzmik at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 03:46:24 2004 From: nkuzmik at yahoo.com (nick kuzmik) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:46:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Desktop command configuration Message-ID: <20040121034624.6422.qmail@web60601.mail.yahoo.com> I really don't want my first post here to be whiney, so I'll try and present myself logically. Starting with the introduction of RH8, I have found that the desktop interface has become more restrictive with each successive release. To name a few, items, 1. I liked being able to mouse from one workspace to the next without touching the keyboard or clicking in the Workspace Switcher. 2. I had the Windows System key configured to automatically activate a terminal from anywhere. 3. And now with FC1, there is the issue of mouse focus as outlined in http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072. The 7.3 Window manager, sawfish IIRC allowed for several levels of customizablity. The first thing the Sawfish control panel asked you was are you an novice, intermediate or an expert user. Based on your answer, it limited your options. Is there reason that a similar feature cannot be implemented in the next Fedora Core? I don't want to cause trouble but can some one tell me why it seems like each new version of Redhat takes away my ability to tune the desktop so I am as productive as possible? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From osprey at galactica.it Wed Jan 21 14:40:05 2004 From: osprey at galactica.it (Emanuele) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:40:05 +0100 Subject: Whats up with up2date? In-Reply-To: <1074649151.4145.5.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> References: <1074564017.3799.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1074649151.4145.5.camel@jupiter.athens.lan> Message-ID: <1074695909.4745.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Il mer, 2004-01-21 alle 02:39, Charles McColm ha scritto: > On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 21:02, scott wrote: > > When I try to use up2date it freezes up when trying to download > > updates? Sometimes it says that the gnu license is bad and asks to > > continue anyway. Anyone else have this problem? Is there a link where I > > could find an updated/fixed up2date rpm? > > Scott are you using dialup by chance? I too have had problems with > up2date. My problem is a little different and only seems to happen with > larger downloads. (i.e. a kernel update) > > My solution is to use the RHN-applet to discover what packages need to > be updated, then to use gftp to go to one of the Fedora Core mirror > sites and manually download the updates, then rpm -Uvh the updates. I > find it a whole lot faster! > > Cheers, > > Charles > I have similar problems ("..gnu license.." gpg signature error?, and stalled download). Maybe i'm wrong but I think it's a problem of the official servers which are overloaded. I fix it by editing /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources and adding mirror repository taken from http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors.html. Now it works pretty well. For example a part of my /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources "... yum fedora-core-1-mirror ftp://ftp.dulug.duke.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i386/os/ #mirror yum updates-released_mirror_2 ftp://ftp.dulug.duke.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/1/i386/ #mirror yum updates-testing_mirror_2 ftp://ftp.dulug.duke.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/testing/1/i386/ ...". I leave the lines which refer to the official servers (and i simply don't check the relative channel when up2date shows the list) and but i think that they could be commented if you want. Best Regards From wolfnel at charter.net Wed Jan 21 15:42:41 2004 From: wolfnel at charter.net (Wolf Sherrod) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:42:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora and Dual Processors Message-ID: <001a01c3e035$34f8e080$0201a8c0@nellieb14chfs2> Just a post to say Fedora supports a Tyan Tiger mobo with dual 500mhz Celeron Processors. I had Fedora installed on a single processor PC with original kernel , it worked fine. So i put the hard drive with Fedora in my dual processor PC (128mb SDRAM) and with a few tweeks it came up just fine. But only showed (1) processor . I tried to compile the new 2.6.0 kernel with no luck. So I went for it and downloaded the RPM and installed it -->> rebooted---> and WaLa ,(2) processors and SMP was automaticlly up and running. One word of advice , when booting up after new kernel install --- > when "checking for new hardware finds something" just answer "DO NOTHING" to everything it finds.Or you will end up with no Network card. This is the sweetest Linux box I ever had . "Fedora Rocks" Wolf S. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nomis80 at nomis80.org Wed Jan 21 16:05:32 2004 From: nomis80 at nomis80.org (Simon Perreault) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:05:32 -0500 Subject: Desktop command configuration In-Reply-To: <20040121034624.6422.qmail@web60601.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040121034624.6422.qmail@web60601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <400EA34C.9050000@nomis80.org> I don't know about GNOME, so my comments are about KDE. nick kuzmik wrote: > 1. I liked being able to mouse from one workspace to > the next without touching the keyboard or clicking in > the Workspace Switcher. Still available in KDE. > 2. I had the Windows System key configured to > automatically activate a terminal from anywhere. Still available in KDE. > 3. And now with FC1, there is the issue of mouse > focus as outlined in > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072. KDE in Fedora does not have this bug. > I don't want to cause trouble but can some one tell me > why it seems like each new version of Redhat takes > away my ability to tune the desktop so I am as > productive as possible? I'm sure this is not the intent of Red Hat. Also, do not confuse Fedora with GNOME. All the issues you have are with GNOME, and maybe you'd be happier with KDE. From nkuzmik at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 16:52:57 2004 From: nkuzmik at yahoo.com (nick kuzmik) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:52:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Desktop command configuration In-Reply-To: <400EA34C.9050000@nomis80.org> Message-ID: <20040121165257.3047.qmail@web60610.mail.yahoo.com> If you are suggesting that I simply select KDE as I log in, I've already tried that with no success. To the best of my understanding, this is not a GNOME/KDE issue. The issue here is the window manager that is packaged with Fedora. --- Simon Perreault wrote: > I don't know about GNOME, so my comments are about > KDE. > > nick kuzmik wrote: > > 1. I liked being able to mouse from one workspace > to > > the next without touching the keyboard or clicking > in > > the Workspace Switcher. > > Still available in KDE. > > > 2. I had the Windows System key configured to > > automatically activate a terminal from anywhere. > > Still available in KDE. > > > 3. And now with FC1, there is the issue of mouse > > focus as outlined in > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072. > > KDE in Fedora does not have this bug. > > > I don't want to cause trouble but can some one > tell me > > why it seems like each new version of Redhat takes > > away my ability to tune the desktop so I am as > > productive as possible? > > I'm sure this is not the intent of Red Hat. > > Also, do not confuse Fedora with GNOME. All the > issues you have are with > GNOME, and maybe you'd be happier with KDE. > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From nkuzmik at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 18:09:01 2004 From: nkuzmik at yahoo.com (nick kuzmik) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:09:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Gnome 2.6 building Message-ID: <20040121180901.42956.qmail@web60606.mail.yahoo.com> I made a post earlier regarding the changes to the desktop since 7.3. A respondant suggested that I was troubleshooting incorrectly. One response suggested that changes to GNOME, not the window manager were the source of my problems. That said, would this the be the proper forum to speak, should I wish to effect change to the current desktop packaging? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From link at subpop.net Wed Jan 21 19:39:07 2004 From: link at subpop.net (Link Dupont) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:39:07 -0800 Subject: Desktop command configuration In-Reply-To: <20040121165257.3047.qmail@web60610.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040121165257.3047.qmail@web60610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1074713947.8771.12.camel@blue> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 08:52, nick kuzmik wrote: > If you are suggesting that I simply select KDE as I > log in, I've already tried that with no success. To > the best of my understanding, this is not a GNOME/KDE > issue. The issue here is the window manager that is > packaged with Fedora. It is a KDE/GNOME issue. KDE uses a window manager called Kwin, and GNOME uses a window manager called metacity. metacity is a very simplistic window manager without a lot of bells & whistles. I don't use KDE so I'm unfamiliar with kwin. If you want more functionality out of your window manager, look at a program called devil's pie (http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/devilspie?flav=xhtml). It adds a bit more options to metacity. Or you could install sawfish, and use that as your GNOME window manager. Or openbox, that's another nice GTK+ 2.x window manager that integrates with GNOME. > --- Simon Perreault wrote: > > I don't know about GNOME, so my comments are about > > KDE. > > > > nick kuzmik wrote: > > > 1. I liked being able to mouse from one workspace > > to > > > the next without touching the keyboard or clicking > > in > > > the Workspace Switcher. > > > > Still available in KDE. > > > > > 2. I had the Windows System key configured to > > > automatically activate a terminal from anywhere. > > > > Still available in KDE. > > > > > 3. And now with FC1, there is the issue of mouse > > > focus as outlined in > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115072. > > > > KDE in Fedora does not have this bug. > > > > > I don't want to cause trouble but can some one > > tell me > > > why it seems like each new version of Redhat takes > > > away my ability to tune the desktop so I am as > > > productive as possible? > > > > I'm sure this is not the intent of Red Hat. > > > > Also, do not confuse Fedora with GNOME. All the > > issues you have are with > > GNOME, and maybe you'd be happier with KDE. > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Link Dupont From darrenhewett at maxnet.co.nz Fri Jan 23 03:18:42 2004 From: darrenhewett at maxnet.co.nz (Darren) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:18:42 -0800 Subject: Graphic Apache Error Pages. In-Reply-To: <001101c3d787$cd9337c0$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> References: <3FFDB82F.1030405@silverorange.com> <001b01c3d6f7$dad2f370$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> <1073705748.2617.21.camel@jonathan.bearak> <3FFFC052.7020403@rosa.com> <001101c3d787$cd9337c0$0901a8c0@frozzen.pointclark.net> Message-ID: <40109292.4070604@maxnet.co.nz> I'm not a linux guru or anything but i have been using fedora lately and i like it because of the availiblity of the latest packages (although i do not yet see kde 3.2 rc1). IMHO anyone that is making a website which is availible to the internet (ie not a home lan or something) will probably go to the trouble of changing their error page to be more like the rest of their site. Otherwise the site will probably only be accessed at 10/100 mbit. So even 500kb wouldn't be over the top. I have little experience in what the majority of users use their fedora servers for, but mine is for serving up howtos, games-patches, etc. at LAN's. So for me or anyone i know, a good graphical error page would be nice. Just my 2 cents, Darren Nando wrote: >I agree also, that was only a an example of what i meant by a graphical >page. Something with a logo representing Fedora. Of course it misses there a >small explanation of what caused the error, and so on. >But if it was to use already done things, it was better to continue with the >default apache error pages. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marky Goldstein" >To: >Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 9:05 AM >Subject: Re: Graphic Apache Error Pages. > > > > >>I agree that communication and usability of such pages, wizards, etc. >>must be much clearer and tested in public. Remember, we are here to >>build the best system for our grandmas. >> >>greets, >>marky >> >>Jonathan Marc Bearak wrote: >> >> >> >>>On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 16:30, Nando wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Ok, so here it is a sample of i was talking about. >>>>I's quite simple. >>>> >>>>http://icewind.no.sapo.pt/error404.png >>>> >>>>My intencion, was to have a rpm that installed this, changing the >>>> >>>> >default > > >>>>ones, that apache brings. >>>> >>>>Making this optional. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>IMHO, that example is worse than the default error page. Most people do >>>not know what "Error 404" means. >>> >>>Hypothetically, a simple improvement to the default 404 message could be >>>s/URL/(document|file), followed by an explanatory statement like, "You >>>may have typed the wrong web address." >>> >>>Also, looking at /var/www/error/HTTP_NOT_FOUND.html.var, there are a >>>number of translations that should be taken into account, further >>>complicating things. >>> >>>Just as fedora artwork is designed with consistency in mind, it is up to >>>an individual website to design error pages consistent with the rest of >>>their website. The default error pages are clean and functional. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>R.?.S.A. >>Identity: Marky Goldstein >>E-Mail: ready at rosa.com >>Task: Managing Director >> >>R.?.S.A. Creation. Technology. Intelligence. AG >>Seefeldstrasse 231, 8008 Zurich, Switzerland >>Phone: +41 1 389 63 33 >>Fax: +41 1 389 63 30 >>URL: http://www.rosa.com/ >> >> >> >>-- >>Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >>Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >>http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list >> >> >> >> > > > > > From link at subpop.net Fri Jan 23 07:22:36 2004 From: link at subpop.net (Link Dupont) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:22:36 -0800 Subject: Gnome 2.6 building In-Reply-To: <20040121180901.42956.qmail@web60606.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040121180901.42956.qmail@web60606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1074842556.31216.27.camel@blue> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 10:09, nick kuzmik wrote: > I made a post earlier regarding the changes to the desktop since 7.3. > A respondant suggested that I was troubleshooting incorrectly. One > response suggested that changes to GNOME, not the window manager were > the source of my problems. > > That said, would this the be the proper forum to speak, should I wish > to effect change to the current desktop packaging? Probably, that or possibly fedora-devel, although fedora-desktop tends to focus on desktop discussion. What sort of changes to the current desktop packaging are you proposing? > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? No, I don't Yahoo. I google. :) > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes -- Link Dupont From kevin at loose-screws.com Sat Jan 24 07:14:01 2004 From: kevin at loose-screws.com (Kevin Francis) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:14:01 +0800 Subject: Menu organization: Why do we use the redhat menu? Message-ID: <40121B39.3090508@loose-screws.com> After using Fedora Core since it was in severn beta, I have found only one real annoyance: the foot menu in GNOME is not the standard GNOME menu. Why do we use this? It is the hardest menu of either Windows or Linux that I've had to use -- It takes me ages to locate things, and when I do, I frequently mis-click. I had no problem at all with the original GNOME menu, or Windows menus. Is there some strange technical reason? Or is this just a redhat-ism? -- Kevin G. Francis From abdul at mera2000uk.fsnet.co.uk Sun Jan 25 01:38:20 2004 From: abdul at mera2000uk.fsnet.co.uk (AbdulWahid) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:38:20 -0000 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <001b01c3e2e3$ead643b0$2d9f193e@Nazir> confirm 737653 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hp at redhat.com Sun Jan 25 05:57:47 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:57:47 -0500 Subject: Menu organization: Why do we use the redhat menu? In-Reply-To: <40121B39.3090508@loose-screws.com> References: <40121B39.3090508@loose-screws.com> Message-ID: <1075010266.17524.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 02:14, Kevin Francis wrote: > After using Fedora Core since it was in severn beta, I have found only > one real annoyance: the foot menu in GNOME is not the standard GNOME menu. > > Why do we use this? It is the hardest menu of either Windows or Linux > that I've had to use -- It takes me ages to locate things, and when I > do, I frequently mis-click. I had no problem at all with the original > GNOME menu, or Windows menus. > > Is there some strange technical reason? Or is this just a redhat-ism? As far as I know our menu has about the same submenus as the standard GNOME menu. My Fedora menu has: Accessories, Games, Graphics, Internet, Office, Preferences, Programming, Sound & Video, System Settings, System Tools My GNOME CVS from a while ago menu has: Accessibility, Accessories, Desktop Preferences, Games, Graphics, Internet, Multimedia, Office, Other, Programming, System Tools Not sure what latest GNOME CVS has. Havoc From scottstopyak at HotPOP.com Mon Jan 26 12:17:17 2004 From: scottstopyak at HotPOP.com (scott) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:17:17 -0500 Subject: Thanks Message-ID: <1075119436.2519.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> That works. Thanks for the tip. I hadn't used gftp before. Its a nice tool. Scott From ivan at chepati.org Wed Jan 28 18:27:46 2004 From: ivan at chepati.org (IvanK.) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:27:46 -0500 Subject: porting rhgb to other distros Message-ID: <200401281327.46247.ivan@chepati.org> Hi guys, first I want to congratulate everyone involved in fedora core on a very aesthetically pleasing and technically superb desktop. Excellent job. Now, I'm a LFS (linux from scratch) user and I would like to "port" rhgb to lfs. I already succeeded in compiling rhgb, after modifying some the variables in main.c, and changed my initscripts to start it. However, when I rhgb is supposed to start, it does but dies immediatelly and my boot continues as normal. I tried running rhgb with -d, but I get no information. My question is, do I need to patch either the kernel or anything else? A new thing just occured to me and it is that I'm running a font server on my machine. Perhaps when rhgb starts it cannot find the necessary fonts? I'll give it another try, but would also be grateful for any hints you can provide. Thanks, IvanK. From macon at itd.nrl.navy.mil Fri Jan 30 20:52:28 2004 From: macon at itd.nrl.navy.mil (Blake M. Macon) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:52:28 -0500 Subject: Signal 11 Message-ID: <004301c3e772$f8d14c60$6101000a@DARKLORD> I am having trouble with loading the X server. I have the Intel 82865G graphics chip and a Samsung Syncmaster 191T monitor. I loaded the current drivers from intel. The error logs states the it had "Caugh Signal 11.aborting" Anyone know what I should do? I am VERY new to all this. ___________________________ Blake M. Macon U.S. Naval Research Laboratory COMSEC Systems Section (202)-404-4872 macon at itd.nrl.navy.mil ___________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: