From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Mar 1 00:36:56 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 06:06:56 +0530 Subject: PulseAudio In-Reply-To: <806dafc20702281231q74d6f969oa190d952c2a1a91c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1172596006.13777.30.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1172610082.5097.119.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <806dafc20702271313h3b56049drc12950057c9a5088@mail.gmail.com> <1172612334.5097.150.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <806dafc20702271356s69f070c8ofefe328853a0cbdf@mail.gmail.com> <1172615202.5097.181.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <806dafc20702271432x3d7d3768i4f1b4187bda4e4d6@mail.gmail.com> <45E4B434.6040409@fedoraproject.org> <806dafc20702281211v347e43e5yd089e5e5a7c5bad9@mail.gmail.com> <45E5E44C.6080907@fedoraproject.org> <806dafc20702281231q74d6f969oa190d952c2a1a91c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E62028.3020306@fedoraproject.org> xiphmont at xiph.org wrote: > On 2/28/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> I see the user name Christopher Montgomery has been added to the edit >> group recently by Ray Strode. Your profile page is >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ChristopherMontgomery. Can you please >> login with this user name and check if you are still not able to edit >> wiki pages? > > I can't. When I attempt to recover a lost password for > 'ChristopherMontgomery', the wiki sends me a mail for 'XiphMont' > instead. I had assumed the system somehow internally had aliased the > two. XiphMont user name has now been deleted. Hopefully it works now. Rahul From che666 at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 09:55:49 2007 From: che666 at gmail.com (Rudolf Kastl) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:55:49 +0100 Subject: Wine by default? In-Reply-To: <1169905966.20372.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> <1169905966.20372.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: 2007/1/27, Marius Andreiana : > On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 04:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > What are the thoughts on installing Wine by default in Desktop and KDE > > spins for Fedora 7? > It should be in, of course, and now it works well. > > One issue: menu entries for applications installed with wine don't seem > to be created automatically, one has to type "wineboot" - this should > have a menu entry. On current FC6 it creates two "Wine" menus in main > menu instead of one. Menu items should get icons. one should never have to trigger wineboot manually. please report the bug as it is. i am also for throwing wine onto the spin. regards, Rudolf Kastl p.s. the menu entrys for me are created automatically and if a "windows reboot is necassery" the application will trigger it. > > -- > Marius Andreiana > http://marius.andreiana.googlepages.com > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > From che666 at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 09:57:53 2007 From: che666 at gmail.com (Rudolf Kastl) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:57:53 +0100 Subject: Wine by default? In-Reply-To: <1169912765.14587.9.camel@dawkins> References: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> <1169912765.14587.9.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: 2007/1/27, David Nielsen : > On l?r, 2007-01-27 at 04:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > What are the thoughts on installing Wine by default in Desktop and KDE > > spins for Fedora 7? It might make it more easier for migrations and > > heterogeneous environments if we installed and integrated with Wine by > > default. > > I would strongly oppose this for the following reasons: > > a) It would be read as encouragement to run proprietary software which > cannot be supported (but will result in poor Will Woods being flooded > with reports as experience tells us) > > b) It will mainly be expected to run games, which Wine doesn't - this > also becomes a support trap and the myth that it's a migration tool is > thus shown false and our users get a bad experience with Fedora since > their applications won't work. umm thats plain wrong: http://appdb.winehq.org some games even run faster on wine than on native windows in some cases. there are even games that run without hw acceleration -> ultima online 2d client regards, Rudolf Kastl > > For people who need to run Windows apps, Windows is a perfectly fine > platform and with KVM I am to understand we can run it virtualized > environment (provided you have the hardware) which would be safer and > zero support on hands of the applications in question (we do need to > support kvm, virt-manager and friends). > > - David Nielsen > > -- > "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible > propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them." > -Thomas Jefferson > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > > From xiphmont at xiph.org Thu Mar 1 14:27:28 2007 From: xiphmont at xiph.org (xiphmont at xiph.org) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 09:27:28 -0500 Subject: PulseAudio In-Reply-To: <45E62028.3020306@fedoraproject.org> References: <1172596006.13777.30.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1172612334.5097.150.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <806dafc20702271356s69f070c8ofefe328853a0cbdf@mail.gmail.com> <1172615202.5097.181.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <806dafc20702271432x3d7d3768i4f1b4187bda4e4d6@mail.gmail.com> <45E4B434.6040409@fedoraproject.org> <806dafc20702281211v347e43e5yd089e5e5a7c5bad9@mail.gmail.com> <45E5E44C.6080907@fedoraproject.org> <806dafc20702281231q74d6f969oa190d952c2a1a91c@mail.gmail.com> <45E62028.3020306@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <806dafc20703010627s1598e069h72118653dda62acf@mail.gmail.com> On 2/28/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > XiphMont user name has now been deleted. Hopefully it works now. Thank you. Although I don't want to continue to cause trouble, is it possible to change it from ChristopherMontgomery? The problem is, essentially, that Christopher isn't my name, I've never used it, I've never answered to it, not even my siblings/parents use it. Aside from being on my birth certificate it has nothing to do with me. I didn't choose it for the wiki, Redhat did. (Monty Montgomery is weird, but at least I know it's me.) Thanks, and sorry for the hassle. Monty From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 15:20:48 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:20:48 -0500 Subject: PulseAudio In-Reply-To: <806dafc20703010627s1598e069h72118653dda62acf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1172596006.13777.30.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <45E62028.3020306@fedoraproject.org> <806dafc20703010627s1598e069h72118653dda62acf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200703011020.48332.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 01 March 2007 09:27:28 xiphmont at xiph.org wrote: > Thank you. Although I don't want to continue to cause trouble, is it > possible to change it from ChristopherMontgomery? ?The problem is, > essentially, that Christopher isn't my name, I've never used it, I've > never answered to it, not even my siblings/parents use it. ?Aside from > being on my birth certificate it has nothing to do with me. ?I didn't > choose it for the wiki, Redhat did. How did Red Hat choose this for the wiki? You're supposed to create your own wiki account... -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From xiphmont at xiph.org Thu Mar 1 15:33:57 2007 From: xiphmont at xiph.org (xiphmont at xiph.org) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:33:57 -0500 Subject: PulseAudio In-Reply-To: <200703011020.48332.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1172596006.13777.30.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <45E62028.3020306@fedoraproject.org> <806dafc20703010627s1598e069h72118653dda62acf@mail.gmail.com> <200703011020.48332.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <806dafc20703010733q45d74c82raf23bc4d13826883@mail.gmail.com> On 3/1/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 01 March 2007 09:27:28 xiphmont at xiph.org wrote: > > Thank you. Although I don't want to continue to cause trouble, is it > > possible to change it from ChristopherMontgomery? The problem is, > > essentially, that Christopher isn't my name, I've never used it, I've > > never answered to it, not even my siblings/parents use it. Aside from > > being on my birth certificate it has nothing to do with me. I didn't > > choose it for the wiki, Redhat did. > > How did Red Hat choose this for the wiki? You're supposed to create your own > wiki account... "Yeah Well" It was there waiting for me when they put us through 'wiki training' during new-hire orientation. Monty From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 15:41:46 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:41:46 -0500 Subject: PulseAudio In-Reply-To: <806dafc20703010733q45d74c82raf23bc4d13826883@mail.gmail.com> References: <1172596006.13777.30.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <200703011020.48332.jkeating@redhat.com> <806dafc20703010733q45d74c82raf23bc4d13826883@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200703011041.46832.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 01 March 2007 10:33:57 xiphmont at xiph.org wrote: > "Yeah Well" ?It was there waiting for me when they put us through > 'wiki training' during new-hire orientation. Wait. You're talking about the internal Red Hat Wiki part of our internal intranet right? The 'wiki' we've been talking about is http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From xiphmont at xiph.org Thu Mar 1 16:53:18 2007 From: xiphmont at xiph.org (xiphmont at xiph.org) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:53:18 -0500 Subject: PulseAudio In-Reply-To: <200703011041.46832.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1172596006.13777.30.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <200703011020.48332.jkeating@redhat.com> <806dafc20703010733q45d74c82raf23bc4d13826883@mail.gmail.com> <200703011041.46832.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <806dafc20703010853j29645bfdi36c5aeb5425a7adf@mail.gmail.com> On 3/1/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 01 March 2007 10:33:57 xiphmont at xiph.org wrote: > > "Yeah Well" It was there waiting for me when they put us through > > 'wiki training' during new-hire orientation. > > Wait. You're talking about the internal Red Hat Wiki part of our internal > intranet right? The 'wiki' we've been talking about is > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ Oh, um, duh, of course. My brain went off in the weeds here. So how the heck did I end up with two Fedora wiki accounts.... Hmm.... Monty From ml at deadbabylon.de Thu Mar 1 20:59:23 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:59:23 +0100 Subject: Discussion about F7-KDE-LiveCD Message-ID: <20070301215923.46668a08@localhost.localdomain> Hi! I want to start a discussion about the package list on a possible f7-kde-livecd. It would be much easier for me to test some configurations when the direction is cleared. :) So I've got some questions: 1. Configuration: Do we want (according to the gnome/desktop-livecd) a base configuration and an "advanced" configuration? Of course only one (the advanced) would be created and published. But having a standard configuration would it make easier to change some things. 2. Browser/Email: Do we want Firefox and/or Evolution on the live-cd? (Be aware that space is limited) 3. Do we want krusader and/or dolphin on the live-cd? In general: Do we want duplications in the functionality of applications (not as easy as it sounds; eg. amarok vs. noatun? 4. What about localisation? The kde-i18n-packages are not really slim. So perhaps putting them on a live-dvd would be the better idea (gnome/desktop-livecd is fully localized) ------ For comparison of sizes (the named packages are listed in 20-fedora-livecd-kde.conf and of course have dependencies): a) A suggested base cd has the size of ~474 MB (here on i386) Packages: chkconfig, xorg-x11-drivers, system-config-display, vim-minimal pirut, setroubleshoot, system-config-rootpassword, system-config-printer, alsa-utils, dejavu-lgc-fonts, arts, kdelibs, kdebase, kdeadmin, kdeaccessibility, kdeartwork, kdebindings, kdegraphics, kdenetwork, kdepim, knetworkmanager, k3b, kaffeine, kpowersave b) An "advanced" CD uses ~705 MB. Packages: as in a) plus: kdeartwork-icons, kdeedu, kdegames, kdetoys, kdeutils, akode, amarok, beryl-kde, cups, digikam, digikamimageplugins, gnupg2, gpgme, gstreamer-plugins-base, gstreamer-plugins-good, gstreamer-tools, gtk-qt-engine, kmenu-gnome, koffice-suite, konversation, krusader, ktorrent, pinentry-qt, twinkle, taskjuggler, samba-client c) A localized cd with kde-i18n-* uses ~690MB. Packages: chkconfig, xorg-x11-drivers, system-config-display, vim-minimal, pirut, setroubleshoot, system-config-rootpassword, alsa-utils, dejavu-lgc-fonts, kdelibs, kdebase, arts, kdeaccessibility, kdeartwork, kdebindings, kdegraphics, kdenetwork, kdepim, knetworkmanager (I'm surely missed some usefull packages) --- So the steps for the next time should be: 1. Decide about the packages that should definitely be there (as base configuration (eg. kdenetwork: yes; kdegames: no) 2. Decide about the configuration for livecd-creator (eg. 20-fedora-livecd-kde.conf AND 30-fedora-livecd-kde-advanced.conf OR only one configuration) 3. Decide about the addon packages. Not all from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/PackageList could be integrated into one cd. 4. Test the configurations on all archs (not sure if the size is the same on x86_64 or ppc). Of course, these things are all suggestions. :) Will be happy about some feedback Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Mar 2 20:14:06 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:14:06 -0500 Subject: Packages for Prime Message-ID: <200703021514.06895.jkeating@redhat.com> I've added the ability for pungi to read kickstart syntax for the package manifest. This means we can list the groups from comps we want, and whether or not to include the defaults or optional packages for that group. This allows the manifest to be a bit easier to read/use, and it helps to make sure what we pull in is visible to the user. What does this mean for the Desktop group? I'd like to just reference @gnome-desktop for the Prime spin, that would pull in all the mandatory things in comps as well as things marked default. Since we use a comps that is a merger of core/extras, that means you need to start making serious thoughts about what is marked as default/mandatory in the gnome group, for both core and extras packages (since things are merging). Currently comps is a little ugly in that there is one in Core cvs and one in Extras cvs. I'll try to relay changes you wish to make into the appropriate one. http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/comps/comps-fe7.xml.in?root=extras&view=markup is the Extras one. The core one isn't viewable via viewcvs :/ I've tossed a copy of it up to http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/comps-fc7.xml.in Note, this has the extras stuff in it too, merged shortly before Test2. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Mar 2 20:37:45 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 21:37:45 +0100 Subject: Packages for Prime In-Reply-To: <200703021514.06895.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200703021514.06895.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1172867865.13308.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le vendredi 02 mars 2007 ? 15:14 -0500, Jesse Keating a ?crit : > Currently comps is a little ugly in that there is one in Core cvs and one in > Extras cvs. I'll try to relay changes you wish to make into the appropriate > one. > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/comps/comps-fe7.xml.in?root=extras&view=markup > > is the Extras one. The core one isn't viewable via viewcvs :/ > > I've tossed a copy of it up to > http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/comps-fc7.xml.in > > Note, this has the extras stuff in it too, merged shortly before Test2. BTW, I don't know if you've noticed, but the FE xslt comps filter will do group merging for you. Just dump both FE and FC groups inside the same comps root xml element and process the file. (in case you collated the groups manually) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Mar 3 03:11:53 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:11:53 -0500 Subject: Packages for Prime In-Reply-To: <1172867865.13308.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200703021514.06895.jkeating@redhat.com> <1172867865.13308.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200703022211.53789.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 02 March 2007 15:37:45 Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > BTW, I don't know if you've noticed, but the FE xslt comps filter will > do group merging for you. Just dump both FE and FC groups inside the > same comps root xml element and process the file. > > (in case you collated the groups manually) We've been using that. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dfong at redhat.com Sat Mar 3 18:53:22 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:53:22 -0500 Subject: Request: User Image Submissions - Deadline March 15, 2007 Message-ID: <45E9C422.80800@redhat.com> Hello All, With the implementation of Face-browser login [1] and Fast User Switching for Fedora 7, a good set of User Images will add polish to the user experience. It is obvious that some of the existing User Images (located at /user/share/pixmaps/faces) would benefit from an update. Thus, if you are interested in submitting images, or suggestions of what you would like to see, for one of the 24 default images, please contribute by: - posting to this thread, - [preferably] posting your submission(s) to Open Clip Art and Tag as ?userimage?(but without the quotes). Please be sure to tag it properly, as tags are case sensitive and the final set will be collected via tag search. - emailing me directly at dfong at redhat.com and I will upload to Open Clip Art for you. Deadline for submissions will be March 15 to make it in time for Fedora 7 Feature Freeze. After that, on March 16th, the 24 default images will be determined by myself and Visual Designers from Red Hat and from other distros. NOTE: ALL submitted images WILL have a home unless it has inappropriate content. All images, even the ones replaced from the current set will be packaged and included to provide more choices to Users. For additional information please see the original post at [2]. [1] http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidz/406452040/ [2] http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=63 Thanks, Diana Fong ---- Red Hat Visual Designer From scott.walsh at snet.net Sun Mar 4 11:48:48 2007 From: scott.walsh at snet.net (skwalsh) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 06:48:48 -0500 Subject: Source Files Message-ID: <1173008928.4087.3.camel@scott.localdomain> I have been trying to install the d80211 subsystem package to support my 3945ABG wireless card. To do so, I need the kernel sources installed. How do I do that? I'm running 2.6.19-1.2911.fc6-i586. Thanks, Scott From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Mar 4 12:10:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:40:31 +0530 Subject: Source Files In-Reply-To: <1173008928.4087.3.camel@scott.localdomain> References: <1173008928.4087.3.camel@scott.localdomain> Message-ID: <45EAB737.2060301@fedoraproject.org> skwalsh wrote: > I have been trying to install the d80211 subsystem package to support > my 3945ABG wireless card. To do so, I need the kernel sources installed. > How do I do that? I'm running 2.6.19-1.2911.fc6-i586. > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc6/en_US/sn-Kernel.html#id2950723. Please use fedora-list for end user questions. Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Mar 5 07:31:57 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:31:57 +0200 Subject: Request: User Image Submissions - Deadline March 15, 2007 In-Reply-To: <45E9C422.80800@redhat.com> References: <45E9C422.80800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45EBC76D.5000009@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > > - [preferably] posting your submission(s) to Open Clip Art and Tag as > ?userimage?(but without the quotes). Please be sure to tag it properly, > as tags are case sensitive and the final set will be collected via tag > search. > - emailing me directly at dfong at redhat.com and I will upload to Open > Clip Art for you. Please don't do that. The purpose of the Open Clip Art Library is to gather images in vector format, specifically SVG. Other image types (JPEG, PNG) are outside of the project's mission and may be rejected (it seems this already happened), we accept raster images only as request for vectorization. I suggest an alternate uploading procedure: create a page in the fedoraproject.org wiki and upload the images here. Of course, SVG submissions will be gladly accepted at openclipart.org. > NOTE: ALL submitted images WILL have a home unless it has inappropriate > content. All images, even the ones replaced from the current set will be > packaged and included to provide more choices to Users. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From dfong at redhat.com Mon Mar 5 22:07:31 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:07:31 -0500 Subject: Request: User Image Submissions - Deadline March 15, 2007 In-Reply-To: <45E9C422.80800@redhat.com> References: <45E9C422.80800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45EC94A3.2010407@redhat.com> PLEASE NOTE: User Image Submission Request Revised The user submissions, which were originally to be uploaded to OpenClipArt, are now being relocated to GNOME-look.org. Please note the change in location and upload information. I?ve updated my previous blog post [1] with the relevant information, so please reread and resubmit. If you?ve emailed me directly, then I?ll just repost your submission. My apologies for any inconvenience and thank you again for your patience and participation. Highlighted change includes: License: The license no longer needs to be Public Domain, but for consistency please select GPL so that it may be used by open source distros. Upload info: 1) Include ?UserImage -? in the name of your submission, so that it will be easier to identify when I collect the images. 2) select ?Clipart? for the ?Type? field 3) select ?GPL? for the ?License? 4) GNOME-look allows for multiple uploads in an entry, so upload your original large square version AND a 96x96 version. [1] http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=63 Thanks, Diana Diana Fong wrote: > Hello All, > > With the implementation of Face-browser login [1] and Fast User > Switching for Fedora 7, a good set of User Images will add polish to > the user experience. It is obvious that some of the existing User > Images (located at /user/share/pixmaps/faces) would benefit from an > update. Thus, if you are interested in submitting images, or > suggestions of what you would like to see, for one of the 24 default > images, please contribute by: > > - posting to this thread, > - [preferably] posting your submission(s) to Open Clip Art and Tag as > ?userimage?(but without the quotes). Please be sure to tag it > properly, as tags are case sensitive and the final set will be > collected via tag search. > - emailing me directly at dfong at redhat.com and I will upload to Open > Clip Art for you. > > Deadline for submissions will be March 15 to make it in time for > Fedora 7 Feature Freeze. After that, on March 16th, the 24 default > images will be determined by myself and Visual Designers from Red Hat > and from other distros. > > NOTE: ALL submitted images WILL have a home unless it has > inappropriate content. All images, even the ones replaced from the > current set will be packaged and included to provide more choices to > Users. > > For additional information please see the original post at [2]. > > > [1] http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidz/406452040/ > [2] http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=63 > > > Thanks, > Diana Fong > ---- > Red Hat Visual Designer > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Mar 6 00:17:28 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 05:47:28 +0530 Subject: Discussion about F7-KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <20070301215923.46668a08@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070301215923.46668a08@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45ECB318.20508@fedoraproject.org> Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Hi! > > I want to start a discussion about the package list on a possible > f7-kde-livecd. It would be much easier for me to test some > configurations when the direction is cleared. :) > > So I've got some questions: > > 1. Configuration: Do we want (according to the gnome/desktop-livecd) a > base configuration and an "advanced" configuration? Of course only one > (the advanced) would be created and published. But having a standard > configuration would it make easier to change some things. I would prefer just a standard configuration. I dont think a split is necessary. The tools should be easy enough to use a single configuration as a template to customize the packages further. > 2. Browser/Email: Do we want Firefox and/or Evolution on the live-cd? > (Be aware that space is limited) How much space? If there is space, it might be useful to include them. > > 3. Do we want krusader and/or dolphin on the live-cd? In general: > Do we want duplications in the functionality of applications (not as > easy as it sounds; eg. amarok vs. noatun? We have to get a complete list of potential duplicates and decide on a case by case basis I think. While Krusader and Konqueror are both advanced user tool, I would consider including Dolphin as the default file manager (especially since it has got commonly requested features like tree view and is scheduled to be the default for KDE 4) and configure Konqueror to be the default web browser with the profile being configured appropriate. > 4. What about localisation? The kde-i18n-packages are not really slim. > So perhaps putting them on a live-dvd would be the better idea > (gnome/desktop-livecd is fully localized) You probably cant include Openoffice.org if you include I18N packages. I guess doing what GNOME live CD does makes sense. Do you plan on providing a live DVD too? > b) An "advanced" CD uses ~705 MB. Accessibility is also important. Do these sizes refer to compressed ones? Rahul From alexl at redhat.com Tue Mar 6 08:55:39 2007 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:55:39 +0100 Subject: homedir subdirs in extras, please test Message-ID: <1173171339.19903.15.camel@greebo> After some upstream discussions at freedesktop I have now implemented my homedir folders proposal and built it in fedora 7 (extras). I've also done some initial Gnome/Gtk+ integration. There are a few packages involved: * xdg-user-dirs This is a desktop agnostic package. It contains a program that gets run very early during login. It creates folders as needed and updates the user config file to point to the current directories. * xdg-user-dirs-gtk This is started in the user session. It checks for changes in locale and on local change prompts the user if he wants to update to the new locale. It also installs a default .gtk-bookmarks file if none exists (or its empty) that points to the new dirs. * nautilus The latest nautilus has a patch so that the right directories are used for the desktop and the templates dir. It also tracks changes in the special folders and updates the config file and the bookmarks if any of these are renamed and/or moved. There are not a lot of translations yet in xdg-user-dirs, so most people will probably get english foldernames. Hopefully we'll get most translations done before Fedora 7 is released though. Now we need to continue integrating this into other applications. I'll take a look at gnome-user-share and gnome-panel today. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a leather-clad coffee-fuelled waffle chef with acid for blood. She's an orphaned hypochondriac detective with the soul of a mighty warrior. They fight crime! From alexl at redhat.com Tue Mar 6 14:23:59 2007 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:23:59 +0100 Subject: homedir subdirs in extras, please test In-Reply-To: <1173171339.19903.15.camel@greebo> References: <1173171339.19903.15.camel@greebo> Message-ID: <1173191039.19903.32.camel@greebo> On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 09:55 +0100, Alexander Larsson wrote: > * xdg-user-dirs-gtk > This is started in the user session. It checks for changes in locale and > on local change prompts the user if he wants to update to the new > locale. It also installs a default .gtk-bookmarks file if none exists > (or its empty) that points to the new dirs. Ugh, this was missing a buildrequires on xdg-user-dirs, so the "check for changes in locale" stuff doesn't work. Fixed in 0.3-1.fc7. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a time-tossed amnesiac barbarian with a winning smile and a way with the ladies. She's an elegant snooty former first lady with someone else's memories. They fight crime! From ml at deadbabylon.de Tue Mar 6 15:02:24 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:02:24 +0100 Subject: Discussion about F7-KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <45ECB318.20508@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070301215923.46668a08@localhost.localdomain> <45ECB318.20508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070306160224.0af0e4f1@localhost.localdomain> Am Tue, 06 Mar 2007 05:47:28 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram : > Sebastian Vahl wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I want to start a discussion about the package list on a possible > > f7-kde-livecd. It would be much easier for me to test some > > configurations when the direction is cleared. :) > > > > So I've got some questions: > > > > 1. Configuration: Do we want (according to the > > gnome/desktop-livecd) a base configuration and an "advanced" > > configuration? Of course only one (the advanced) would be created > > and published. But having a standard configuration would it make > > easier to change some things. > > I would prefer just a standard configuration. I dont think a split is > necessary. The tools should be easy enough to use a single > configuration as a template to customize the packages further. I now think so, too. When also creating a live dvd, three configuration files would be too much. > > 2. Browser/Email: Do we want Firefox and/or Evolution on the > > live-cd? (Be aware that space is limited) > > How much space? If there is space, it might be useful to include them. Only including firefox: Iso is 30 Mb bigger. Including firefox and evolution: Iso is 40 Mb bigger. > > > > > 3. Do we want krusader and/or dolphin on the live-cd? In general: > > Do we want duplications in the functionality of applications (not as > > easy as it sounds; eg. amarok vs. noatun? > > We have to get a complete list of potential duplicates and decide on > a case by case basis I think. While Krusader and Konqueror are both > advanced user tool, I would consider including Dolphin as the > default file manager (especially since it has got commonly requested > features like tree view and is scheduled to be the default for KDE 4) > and configure Konqueror to be the default web browser with the > profile being configured appropriate. I haven't tried dolphin for a long time. But last time it was not localized and seems in an early stage (but functional). What I have read dolphin for KDE4 is developed while developing of dolphin for KDE3 was stopped. But I'm not sure with this. In KDE3 konqueror is the default filemanager and I don't think we should change this for a live cd. > > 4. What about localisation? The kde-i18n-packages are not really > > slim. So perhaps putting them on a live-dvd would be the better idea > > (gnome/desktop-livecd is fully localized) > > You probably cant include Openoffice.org if you include I18N > packages. I guess doing what GNOME live CD does makes sense. Do you > plan on providing a live DVD too? Localisation could only be included in a live dvd, I think. Otherwise there would not be any other packages than some of the official kde ones (eg no koffice or amarok due to space limitation). The packages of kde-i18n-* and koffice-langpack-* takes about 340 Mb (downloaded rpms). ATM I'm not sure if livecd-creator is able to create a dvd. But having a dvd (at least for localisation) would be great. > > > b) An "advanced" CD uses ~705 MB. > > Accessibility is also important. Do these sizes refer to compressed > ones? This was the size of the iso file created by mkisofs. The "advanced" version I'm playing around with now is about 683MB. I've set up a preliminary wiki page where I have described some configurations: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/KDELiveCD This version is still splitted into three versions and it was not discussed so far. Just want to have a start for todays KDE-SIG meeting. Then it will be changed. > Rahul Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ml at deadbabylon.de Tue Mar 6 22:55:48 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 23:55:48 +0100 Subject: Discussion about F7-KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <20070301215923.46668a08@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070301215923.46668a08@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070306235548.5f730fec@localhost.localdomain> In todays KDE-SIG-Meeting [1] we had a start of discussion. A short summary: - create only one cd-version - try to include only one application for one task (depends on kde* package splitting) - not include firefox and evolution due to space limitation (if there would be enough space only include firefox) - not use dolphin as default file-manager (it is not ready yet) (Please correct me if I get a point wrong) After that I have created a wiki page for the KDE-LiveCD: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD And I've also created a new set of rpms which only include the most important packages (all of them are noticed in the wiki page).[2] So there is space to add more. The creation of the livecd is described in the wiki page. There's also a place to add suggestions for the additional packages. So far, Sebastian [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/KDE?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=kde-sig-20070306.txt [2] http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/ [signature.asc application/pgp-signature (189 bytes)] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bclark at redhat.com Tue Mar 13 23:37:12 2007 From: bclark at redhat.com (Bryan Clark) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:37:12 -0400 Subject: application statistics Message-ID: <45F735A8.4000807@redhat.com> Hey ~ So we've been collecting some application usage statistics [1] on mugshot for a little while now and it's starting to reveal some interesting (and obvious) stuff. You could look at evolution vs. thunderbird and firefox vs. epiphany or gossip vs. gaim. It's a bit hard to pull enough context into those comparisons to really get down to the reasons why some are used more than others but it's a good start so far. If you're not aware of the application statistics take a look the statistics page [1] as well as the recent blog entry [2] for some background. In a nutshell we've asked mugshot users anonymously share their application usage statistics in order to determine application popularity. Mugshot is cool and free and open to everyone [3], you can sign up today if any of this interests you. So now we're moving this application statistics idea on to a new phase and are looking for ideas. During our talk at FUDCon we showed a couple of mockups [4] of things we were possibly looking at doing. While we're still touching on most of the different areas shown there we now have a decent prototype for the statistical application usage information and it would be great to drive in that direction for a little while. We're looking into, as it was suggested on the blog, that we might provide correlations between usage such that you could see xterm users are more likely to run xmms. However there might be other correlations that would be good to show as well. Also we're trying to figure out how we can determine related applications. Mime types are a bit of a mess to try linking similar applications together so we might have to ask people to help edit the information wiki style. The application categorires are problematic for this as well. Right now there doesn't seem to be any existing information on how thunderbird, evolution, and balsa are all email clients. While our application pages don't always correspond directly to a project we've looked into providing doap [5] files for all of our application information. Because of the disconnect between application, package, and project this might not work out but it's certainly possible to provide some information in this format. As this mockup [6] suggests we're currently looking into how we could offer install links for applications thus giving a bit more of a application browse and download / install feel. The backend bits to this all use yum / pirut to handle the actual install. And we've also added a way to pull in more application description information as well. There's a little bit more information available on the app stats wiki page [7] if you still have general questions. Thanks, ~ Bryan [1] http://mugshot.org/applications [2] http://blog.mugshot.org/?p=353 [3] http://mugshot.org/signup [4] http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Category:FUDCon_Boston_2007 [5] http://usefulinc.com/doap/ [6] http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Image:Application_Statistics_Thunderbird_Page.png [7] http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Application_Statistics From ml at deadbabylon.de Wed Mar 14 00:10:00 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:10:00 +0100 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations Message-ID: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> Hi. I've created a new basic layout for the cd: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. Please tell me which package should be added or removed. On todays KDE-SIG-Meeting Rex Dieter and Kevin Kofler suggested to give the local communities the ability to create their own localized cds easily. To do this there should be an extra configuration file for each language which adds the needed packages and do some configurations. And also the additional language must fit on one cd. A second option for localized versions could (or should?) be a live-dvd with all available language packages. livecd-creator in git seems to be able to do this (but I haven't checked this yet). [1] I've created a first draft for an configuration for the german language. This adds kde-i18n-de and koffice-langpack-de to the cd. Also the standard keyboard layout, the local timezone and the locale is changed. To change the keyboard layout inside kde I've used an ugly workaround.[2] If anybody knows a better way, please tell me. :) Compared to the version above this one needs ~675 MB. To create the configuration files for different languages I need some informations from one person that uses the language: 1. /etc/sysconfig/i18n 2. /etc/sysconfig/keyboard 3. /etc/sysconfig/clock 4. keybordtype from "system-config-keyboard --help" 5. needed additional packages (eg. scim-* or fonts-*) And of course all are invited to discuss this. :) Sebastian [1] http://git.fedoraproject.org/?p=hosted/livecd [2] http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/source/50-fedora-livecd-kde-german.conf ######### How to create the live cd: Install livecd-tools: wget "http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/live/f7test2/livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386.rpm" rpm -ivh livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386.rpm Create the spin: livecd-creator \ --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/ \ --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/development/i386/ \ --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE To create the german version: livecd-creator \ --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/ \ --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/development/i386/ \ --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ --package=fedora-livecd-kde-german \ --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE-German -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Mar 14 01:10:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 06:40:50 +0530 Subject: application statistics In-Reply-To: <45F735A8.4000807@redhat.com> References: <45F735A8.4000807@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45F74B9A.5030106@fedoraproject.org> Bryan Clark wrote: > Hey ~ > > So we've been collecting some application usage statistics [1] on > mugshot for a little while now and it's starting to reveal some > interesting (and obvious) stuff. You could look at evolution vs. > thunderbird and firefox vs. epiphany or gossip vs. gaim. It's a bit > hard to pull enough context into those comparisons to really get down to > the reasons why some are used more than others but it's a good start so > far. > > If you're not aware of the application statistics take a look the > statistics page [1] as well as the recent blog entry [2] for some > background. In a nutshell we've asked mugshot users anonymously share > their application usage statistics in order to determine application > popularity. Mugshot is cool and free and open to everyone [3], you can > sign up today if any of this interests you. > > So now we're moving this application statistics idea on to a new phase > and are looking for ideas. During our talk at FUDCon we showed a couple > of mockups [4] of things we were possibly looking at doing. While we're > still touching on most of the different areas shown there we now have a > decent prototype for the statistical application usage information and > it would be great to drive in that direction for a little while. > > We're looking into, as it was suggested on the blog, that we might > provide correlations between usage such that you could see xterm users > are more likely to run xmms. However there might be other correlations > that would be good to show as well. > > Also we're trying to figure out how we can determine related > applications. Mime types are a bit of a mess to try linking similar > applications together so we might have to ask people to help edit the > information wiki style. The application categorires are problematic for > this as well. Right now there doesn't seem to be any existing > information on how thunderbird, evolution, and balsa are all email clients. > > While our application pages don't always correspond directly to a > project we've looked into providing doap [5] files for all of our > application information. Because of the disconnect between application, > package, and project this might not work out but it's certainly possible > to provide some information in this format. > > As this mockup [6] suggests we're currently looking into how we could > offer install links for applications thus giving a bit more of a > application browse and download / install feel. The backend bits to > this all use yum / pirut to handle the actual install. And we've also > added a way to pull in more application description information as well. > > There's a little bit more information available on the app stats wiki > page [7] if you still have general questions. As you might already be aware, Fedora has been collecting various statistics [1] and extending this to understand what applications users are dabbling with is very interesting. Integrating this via mugshot would require two things * Downloading and installing the client * Registering with Mugshot Smolt is the profiler in Fedora that collects hardware information anonymously in a opt-in way. The plan there is to install it by default and integrate it with first boot. The Fedora package review for mugshot [2] seems to be struck on a licensing issue. Is there any progress on this? Would it be possible to integrate mugshot into first boot before the Fedora 7 release [3]? In the first boot integration, the mugshot user login or registration is a tab in the same space as adding a new user. That is logical but it would make it much less obvious since most users probably would skip additional tabs or advanced option areas. From the Fedora perspective it also important to differentiate between what mugshot users in general prefer from what applications Fedora users are using. A straight forward method to do is that is to read /etc/fedora-release. Additionally if the users are using Firefox you can read the user agent part too. Are you differentiating this currently or is there any plans to do so? The ability to install applications and provide more package description with screenshots (it might even be user screen captures) etc is very nice and is somewhat similar to cnr[4]. You could add additional features like reviewing an application, comments, search etc. Is there a way to split that out from mugshot? I think we would want that in Fedora and it would be useful for users not using mugshot too. Rahul [1]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics [2]https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212003 [3]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7 [4]http://cnr.com From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Mar 14 07:07:41 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:07:41 +0200 Subject: application statistics In-Reply-To: <45F735A8.4000807@redhat.com> References: <45F735A8.4000807@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45F79F3D.1010906@nicubunu.ro> Bryan Clark wrote: > > So we've been collecting some application usage statistics [1] on > mugshot for a little while now and it's starting to reveal some > interesting (and obvious) stuff. You could look at evolution vs. > thunderbird and firefox vs. epiphany or gossip vs. gaim. It's a bit > hard to pull enough context into those comparisons to really get down to > the reasons why some are used more than others but it's a good start so > far. As we are here on the *Desktop* list, I think it telling that the second most used application is the terminal, very close to the first place (indeed, as you said, not enough context to get to the reasons, but it seems one can't effectively use a Fedora desktop without the terminal). I think one data point would be very useful to determine the context: the total number of counted users, for example right now Firefox has 818 users and the terminal 764 users, but without knowing hte total number of users, you have no idea if this is 90% of users or only 40%. And you can't just add the number of, for example, Firefox and Epiphany users and declare this the total number of users. > So now we're moving this application statistics idea on to a new phase > and are looking for ideas. During our talk at FUDCon we showed a couple > of mockups [4] of things we were possibly looking at doing. While we're > still touching on most of the different areas shown there we now have a > decent prototype for the statistical application usage information and > it would be great to drive in that direction for a little while. Here is one more idea: provide a widget (javascript, please no flash) which I, as an end user, can include in my web page/blog and proudly show to the world *my* application usage. > We're looking into, as it was suggested on the blog, that we might > provide correlations between usage such that you could see xterm users > are more likely to run xmms. However there might be other correlations > that would be good to show as well. Unfortunately the first 3 applications on the list (Firefox, Terminal, Nautilus) are so disproportionately used, that they inevitably appear on the correlation list for each other application, > Also we're trying to figure out how we can determine related > applications. Mime types are a bit of a mess to try linking similar > applications together so we might have to ask people to help edit the > information wiki style. The application categorires are problematic for > this as well. Right now there doesn't seem to be any existing > information on how thunderbird, evolution, and balsa are all email clients. Asking people to manually edit the "related" info is the best solution, otherwise it would be hard to correlate apps like Gimp and Inkscape or Gimp and Fyre. Could this application correlation gathered from users be used in some way in a distant future for a better layout of the GNOME applications menu? -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From bclark at redhat.com Wed Mar 14 15:05:48 2007 From: bclark at redhat.com (Bryan Clark) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:05:48 -0400 Subject: application statistics In-Reply-To: <45F74B9A.5030106@fedoraproject.org> References: <45F735A8.4000807@redhat.com> <45F74B9A.5030106@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45F80F4C.80300@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Bryan Clark wrote: >> Hey ~ >> >> So we've been collecting some application usage statistics [1] on >> mugshot for a little while now and it's starting to reveal some >> interesting (and obvious) stuff. You could look at evolution vs. >> thunderbird and firefox vs. epiphany or gossip vs. gaim. It's a bit >> hard to pull enough context into those comparisons to really get down >> to the reasons why some are used more than others but it's a good >> start so far. >> >> If you're not aware of the application statistics take a look the >> statistics page [1] as well as the recent blog entry [2] for some >> background. In a nutshell we've asked mugshot users anonymously >> share their application usage statistics in order to determine >> application popularity. Mugshot is cool and free and open to >> everyone [3], you can sign up today if any of this interests you. >> >> So now we're moving this application statistics idea on to a new >> phase and are looking for ideas. During our talk at FUDCon we showed >> a couple of mockups [4] of things we were possibly looking at doing. >> While we're still touching on most of the different areas shown there >> we now have a decent prototype for the statistical application usage >> information and it would be great to drive in that direction for a >> little while. >> >> We're looking into, as it was suggested on the blog, that we might >> provide correlations between usage such that you could see xterm >> users are more likely to run xmms. However there might be other >> correlations that would be good to show as well. >> >> Also we're trying to figure out how we can determine related >> applications. Mime types are a bit of a mess to try linking similar >> applications together so we might have to ask people to help edit the >> information wiki style. The application categorires are problematic >> for this as well. Right now there doesn't seem to be any existing >> information on how thunderbird, evolution, and balsa are all email >> clients. >> >> While our application pages don't always correspond directly to a >> project we've looked into providing doap [5] files for all of our >> application information. Because of the disconnect between >> application, package, and project this might not work out but it's >> certainly possible to provide some information in this format. >> >> As this mockup [6] suggests we're currently looking into how we could >> offer install links for applications thus giving a bit more of a >> application browse and download / install feel. The backend bits to >> this all use yum / pirut to handle the actual install. And we've >> also added a way to pull in more application description information >> as well. >> >> There's a little bit more information available on the app stats wiki >> page [7] if you still have general questions. > > > As you might already be aware, Fedora has been collecting various > statistics [1] and extending this to understand what applications > users are dabbling with is very interesting. Integrating this via > mugshot would require two things > > * Downloading and installing the client > * Registering with Mugshot > > Smolt is the profiler in Fedora that collects hardware information > anonymously in a opt-in way. The plan there is to install it by > default and integrate it with first boot. The Fedora package review > for mugshot [2] seems to be struck on a licensing issue. Is there any > progress on this? We're making progress on this, but right now it's not done just yet. > Would it be possible to integrate mugshot into first boot before the > Fedora 7 release [3]? In the first boot integration, the mugshot user > login or registration is a tab in the same space as adding a new > user. That is logical but it would make it much less obvious since > most users probably would skip additional tabs or advanced option areas. Yes, I think we'd need a different way to introduce Mugshot if we wanted to have it in by default. Beyond the online services connections Mugshot currently also can help to persist your desktop window, theme, and background settings. My guess is that introducing mugshot is best done inline with using the desktop, where the benefits are much more obvious. > > From the Fedora perspective it also important to differentiate between > what mugshot users in general prefer from what applications Fedora > users are using. A straight forward method to do is that is to read > /etc/fedora-release. Additionally if the users are using Firefox you > can read the user agent part too. Are you differentiating this > currently or is there any plans to do so? Right now we are looking at the distribution so that we might be able to provide some context around which applications are more popular in which versions of which distributions. We don't read the firefox user agent string however we have started, as a part of the install links, looking at the version of the application you're running. Using distro specific hooks we can query the package system to find out the version you're running. > > The ability to install applications and provide more package > description with screenshots (it might even be user screen captures) > etc is very nice and is somewhat similar to cnr[4]. You could add > additional features like reviewing an application, comments, search > etc. Is there a way to split that out from mugshot? I think we would > want that in Fedora and it would be useful for users not using mugshot > too. The application information is available to anyone, you don't need a mugshot login to browse it and see the information and statistics. However you do need mugshot installed to be able to install applications from the browse pages. It would be pretty difficult to separate out the functions of mugshot, mugshot is doing per session statistics which would require an application running in a users session this is opposed to smolt which is doing per system statistics. There probably is some things that can be looked at together, for instance server applications like mysql, and apache httpd are usually per system where mugshot doesn't know about. Giving a similar set of statistics for system applications might be an interesting way to show how "most people run a wordpress server", but it would take some investigation into what kind of information would be valuable to that user group. > Rahul > > [1]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics > [2]https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212003 > [3]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7 > [4]http://cnr.com > From ml at deadbabylon.de Wed Mar 14 14:34:17 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:34:17 +0100 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations In-Reply-To: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070314153417.43621026@localhost.localdomain> Am Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:10:00 +0100 schrieb Sebastian Vahl : > Hi. > > I've created a new basic layout for the cd: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD > The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. > Please tell me which package should be added or removed. > > > On todays KDE-SIG-Meeting Rex Dieter and Kevin Kofler suggested to > give the local communities the ability to create their own localized > cds easily. To do this there should be an extra configuration file > for each language which adds the needed packages and do some > configurations. And also the additional language must fit on one cd. > A second option for localized versions could (or should?) be a > live-dvd with all available language packages. livecd-creator in git > seems to be able to do this (but I haven't checked this yet). [1] > > I've created a first draft for an configuration for the german > language. This adds kde-i18n-de and koffice-langpack-de to the cd. > Also the standard keyboard layout, the local timezone and the locale > is changed. To change the keyboard layout inside kde I've used an ugly > workaround.[2] > If anybody knows a better way, please tell me. :) > Compared to the version above this one needs ~675 MB. > > > To create the configuration files for different languages I need some > informations from one person that uses the language: > 1. /etc/sysconfig/i18n > 2. /etc/sysconfig/keyboard > 3. /etc/sysconfig/clock > 4. keybordtype from "system-config-keyboard --help" > 5. needed additional packages (eg. scim-* or fonts-*) > > > And of course all are invited to discuss this. :) > > Sebastian > > > > > [1] http://git.fedoraproject.org/?p=hosted/livecd > [2] > http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/source/50-fedora-livecd-kde-german.conf > > ######### > > How to create the live cd: > > Install livecd-tools: > > wget > "http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/live/f7test2/livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386.rpm" > rpm -ivh livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386.rpm > > Create the spin: > > livecd-creator \ > --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/ > \ > --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/development/i386/ > \ > --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ > --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ > --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE > > > To create the german version: > > livecd-creator \ > --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/ > \ > --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/development/i386/ > \ > --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ > --package=fedora-livecd-kde-german \ > --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE-German It seems it was a little bit late yesterday evening. Some corrections: 1. added system-config-display to 20-fedora-livecd-kde.conf (used to setup X) 2. workaround for keyboardtype in kde works now 3. removed krusader to free some space for localizations (new size of basic layout is about 657 MB). 4. included 30-fedora-livecd-kde-dvd.conf is just a draft and not testet yet. RPMs and wiki are updated. Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bclark at redhat.com Wed Mar 14 15:37:43 2007 From: bclark at redhat.com (Bryan Clark) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:37:43 -0400 Subject: application statistics In-Reply-To: <45F79F3D.1010906@nicubunu.ro> References: <45F735A8.4000807@redhat.com> <45F79F3D.1010906@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45F816C7.1080102@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Bryan Clark wrote: >> >> So we've been collecting some application usage statistics [1] on >> mugshot for a little while now and it's starting to reveal some >> interesting (and obvious) stuff. You could look at evolution vs. >> thunderbird and firefox vs. epiphany or gossip vs. gaim. It's a bit >> hard to pull enough context into those comparisons to really get down >> to the reasons why some are used more than others but it's a good >> start so far. > > As we are here on the *Desktop* list, I think it telling that the > second most used application is the terminal, very close to the first > place (indeed, as you said, not enough context to get to the reasons, > but it seems one can't effectively use a Fedora desktop without the > terminal). Yep, it's difficult to know if that's just the mugshot audience or a standard distribution among everyone. > I think one data point would be very useful to determine the context: > the total number of counted users, for example right now Firefox has > 818 users and the terminal 764 users, but without knowing hte total > number of users, you have no idea if this is 90% of users or only 40%. > And you can't just add the number of, for example, Firefox and > Epiphany users and declare this the total number of users. We could provide that number, but I'm not sure it really explains this situation better. The usage numbers show that among all people sharing their application stats firefox is the most used application. The usage count is only taken once a day for a 30 day period such that this number won't continue to raise everyday after the 30 day period, it will likely level out and only increase slowly as new people share their statistics. Since the count is only looked at once a day the large count for firefox users doesn't mean that they are using firefox a lot during the day, but that a lot of people are using firefox everyday. What I think you're getting at is the need to provide better context for the ranking system. Such that if we knew that both firefox and epiphany were web browsers (and the system doesn't actually know this right now) we could say among "web browsers" this one gets the most usage or 40% more usage than the next one. > >> So now we're moving this application statistics idea on to a new >> phase and are looking for ideas. During our talk at FUDCon we showed >> a couple of mockups [4] of things we were possibly looking at doing. >> While we're still touching on most of the different areas shown there >> we now have a decent prototype for the statistical application usage >> information and it would be great to drive in that direction for a >> little while. > > Here is one more idea: provide a widget (javascript, please no flash) > which I, as an end user, can include in my web page/blog and proudly > show to the world *my* application usage. Interesting idea, it wouldn't be too hard to include that as one of our badges. > >> We're looking into, as it was suggested on the blog, that we might >> provide correlations between usage such that you could see xterm >> users are more likely to run xmms. However there might be other >> correlations that would be good to show as well. > > Unfortunately the first 3 applications on the list (Firefox, Terminal, > Nautilus) are so disproportionately used, that they inevitably appear > on the correlation list for each other application, Nautilus might be a bit of a misrepresentation as we haven't been filtering out "the desktop" yet which is nautilus but isn't showing a different wm-class. This should be fixed eventually. Well it's sign of the data, the correlation we show right now simply looks at the current application and asks for the other popular applications that someone running that also runs. Since pretty much _everyone_ seems to run firefox, terminal, and nautilus that's the correlation we're getting. That is slightly different from asking the system, which applications are application $X more likely to run. > >> Also we're trying to figure out how we can determine related >> applications. Mime types are a bit of a mess to try linking similar >> applications together so we might have to ask people to help edit the >> information wiki style. The application categorires are problematic >> for this as well. Right now there doesn't seem to be any existing >> information on how thunderbird, evolution, and balsa are all email >> clients. > > Asking people to manually edit the "related" info is the best > solution, otherwise it would be hard to correlate apps like Gimp and > Inkscape or Gimp and Fyre. > Could this application correlation gathered from users be used in some > way in a distant future for a better layout of the GNOME applications > menu? We could certainly use the information to better organize applications on the desktop. It might be difficult use dynamically created data in the current applications menu which wasn't really designed for additional data beyond categories. However a new type of menu might take advantage or in terms of application search via a desktop search system the application linking can be very useful. Other types of data like tags or categories on applications might be another way to help people find applications. ~ Bryan From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Mar 18 22:14:55 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:44:55 +0530 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations In-Reply-To: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45FDB9DF.2000809@fedoraproject.org> Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Hi. > > I've created a new basic layout for the cd: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD > The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. > Please tell me which package should be added or removed. > > > On todays KDE-SIG-Meeting Rex Dieter and Kevin Kofler suggested to give > the local communities the ability to create their own localized cds > easily. To do this there should be an extra configuration file for each > language which adds the needed packages and do some configurations. And > also the additional language must fit on one cd. > A second option for localized versions could (or should?) be a > live-dvd with all available language packages. livecd-creator in git > seems to be able to do this (but I haven't checked this yet). [1] > > I've created a first draft for an configuration for the german language. > This adds kde-i18n-de and koffice-langpack-de to the cd. Also the > standard keyboard layout, the local timezone and the locale is changed. > To change the keyboard layout inside kde I've used an ugly > workaround.[2] > If anybody knows a better way, please tell me. :) > Compared to the version above this one needs ~675 MB. > > > To create the configuration files for different languages I need some > informations from one person that uses the language: > 1. /etc/sysconfig/i18n > 2. /etc/sysconfig/keyboard > 3. /etc/sysconfig/clock > 4. keybordtype from "system-config-keyboard --help" > 5. needed additional packages (eg. scim-* or fonts-*) > > > And of course all are invited to discuss this. :) > > Sebastian > > > > > [1] http://git.fedoraproject.org/?p=hosted/livecd > [2] > http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/source/50-fedora-livecd-kde-german.conf > > ######### > > How to create the live cd: > > Install livecd-tools: > > wget > "http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/live/f7test2/livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386.rpm" > rpm -ivh livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386.rpm > > Create the spin: > > livecd-creator \ > --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/ > \ > --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/development/i386/ > \ > --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ > --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ > --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE This results in the error: Cannot open/read repomd.xml file for repositry:lcdr_c7 Error installing packages Error during installation Rahul From ml at deadbabylon.de Sun Mar 18 22:59:25 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 23:59:25 +0100 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations In-Reply-To: <45FDB9DF.2000809@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> <45FDB9DF.2000809@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200703182359.32762.ml@deadbabylon.de> > > > > How to create the live cd: > > > > Install livecd-tools: > > > > wget > > "http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/live/f7test2/livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386 > >.rpm" rpm -ivh livecd-tools-001-3.fc7.i386.rpm > > > > Create the spin: > > > > livecd-creator \ > > --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/develop > >ment/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/ \ > > --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/devel > >opment/i386/ \ > > --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ > > --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ > > --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE > > This results in the error: > > Cannot open/read repomd.xml file for repositry:lcdr_c7 > Error installing packages > Error during installation > > Rahul My mistake. Wrong url for [development]. Please use: livecd-creator \ --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/os/ \ --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/development/i386/ \ --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Mar 18 23:02:27 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:32:27 +0530 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations In-Reply-To: <200703182359.32762.ml@deadbabylon.de> References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> <45FDB9DF.2000809@fedoraproject.org> <200703182359.32762.ml@deadbabylon.de> Message-ID: <45FDC503.3000508@fedoraproject.org> Sebastian Vahl wrote: > My mistake. Wrong url for [development]. Please use: > > livecd-creator \ > --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/os/ > \ > --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/development/i386/ > \ > --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ > --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ > --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE Got it already since I watch all the wiki edits. I am rerunning with this set of arguments. Report back later. It would be useful if you can put in a sample output (it is reassuring to know that the output you are getting is expected) and explicitly mention that you need to be running as root user and how long it would take on specific system configurations. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Mar 18 23:06:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:36:31 +0530 Subject: install pam_keyring by default in the GNOME based live cd? Message-ID: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> Hi "PAM_KEYRING is a pam module that launches the gnome-keyring-daemon and then unlocks a keyring using your login password." http://www.hekanetworks.com/index.php/publisher/articleview/frmArticleID/25/staticId/31/ Rahul From dcbw at redhat.com Sun Mar 18 23:18:11 2007 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:18:11 -0400 Subject: install pam_keyring by default in the GNOME based live cd? In-Reply-To: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> References: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1174259891.8053.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 04:36 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > "PAM_KEYRING is a pam module that launches the gnome-keyring-daemon and > then unlocks a keyring using your login password." > > http://www.hekanetworks.com/index.php/publisher/articleview/frmArticleID/25/staticId/31/ +1 Dan From ml at deadbabylon.de Sun Mar 18 23:37:59 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:37:59 +0100 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations In-Reply-To: <45FDC503.3000508@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> <200703182359.32762.ml@deadbabylon.de> <45FDC503.3000508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200703190038.05132.ml@deadbabylon.de> Am Montag, 19. M?rz 2007 schrieb Rahul Sundaram: > Sebastian Vahl wrote: > > My mistake. Wrong url for [development]. Please use: > > > > livecd-creator \ > > --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/develop > >ment/i386/os/ \ > > --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/devel > >opment/i386/ \ > > --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ > > --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ > > --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE > > Got it already since I watch all the wiki edits. I am rerunning with > this set of arguments. Report back later. It would be useful if you can > put in a sample output (it is reassuring to know that the output you are > getting is expected) and explicitly mention that you need to be running > as root user and how long it would take on specific system configurations. > > Rahul OK. Will do this tomorrow. For now: On my machine (Athlon XP 2400+, 1GB Ram) it takes 30-45 min for one run (normal load). And the expected result is that livecd-creator creates an iso. ;) Normally it fails on errors (except eg. non-signed packages). Some minor note: I have to stick to udev-105 to get a bootable iso. With udev-106 I get the same problem like many people with F7T1 and F7T2 (again) [1]. Already reported this to fedora-livecd-list but nobody answered yet. So this is probably a local problem. Sebastian [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=227734 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Mar 19 02:42:19 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:12:19 +0530 Subject: install pam_keyring by default in the GNOME based live cd? In-Reply-To: <1174259891.8053.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> <1174259891.8053.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45FDF88B.30706@fedoraproject.org> Dan Williams wrote: > On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 04:36 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi >> >> "PAM_KEYRING is a pam module that launches the gnome-keyring-daemon and >> then unlocks a keyring using your login password." >> >> http://www.hekanetworks.com/index.php/publisher/articleview/frmArticleID/25/staticId/31/ > > +1 We have two bugs open against pam_keyring now both of which are very important to fix if we need to put this in by default. CC'ing the current upstream and Fedora maintainer * Should have an automated way to enable - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=232857 * Make it possible to change keyring password - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212845 The first bug probably can fixed by adding rpm post installation scripts. The second bug currently requiring patching gnome-keyring. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Mar 19 03:17:11 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:47:11 +0530 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations In-Reply-To: <200703190038.05132.ml@deadbabylon.de> References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> <200703182359.32762.ml@deadbabylon.de> <45FDC503.3000508@fedoraproject.org> <200703190038.05132.ml@deadbabylon.de> Message-ID: <45FE00B7.5000603@fedoraproject.org> Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Am Montag, 19. M?rz 2007 schrieb Rahul Sundaram: >> Sebastian Vahl wrote: >>> My mistake. Wrong url for [development]. Please use: >>> >>> livecd-creator \ >>> --repo=c7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/develop >>> ment/i386/os/ \ >>> --repo=e7,http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/devel >>> opment/i386/ \ >>> --repo=lcd7,http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/i386/ \ >>> --package=fedora-livecd-kde \ >>> --fslabel=Fedora-7-Test2-KDE >> Got it already since I watch all the wiki edits. I am rerunning with >> this set of arguments. Report back later. It would be useful if you can >> put in a sample output (it is reassuring to know that the output you are >> getting is expected) and explicitly mention that you need to be running >> as root user and how long it would take on specific system configurations. >> >> Rahul > > OK. Will do this tomorrow. For now: On my machine (Athlon XP 2400+, 1GB Ram) > it takes 30-45 min for one run (normal load). And the expected result is that > livecd-creator creates an iso. ;) Normally it fails on errors (except eg. > non-signed packages). > Some minor note: I have to stick to udev-105 to get a bootable iso. With > udev-106 I get the same problem like many people with F7T1 and F7T2 (again) > [1]. Already reported this to fedora-livecd-list but nobody answered yet. So > this is probably a local problem. > > Sebastian > > > [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=227734 It produced a 650 MB KDE ISO image. Booting it on qemu fails with the same error message as described in the above bug report. I am not sure which udev it downloaded. Are the packages downloaded saved anywhere? Rahul From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Mon Mar 19 09:01:27 2007 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:01:27 +0100 Subject: install pam_keyring by default in the GNOME based live cd? In-Reply-To: <45FDF88B.30706@fedoraproject.org> References: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> <1174259891.8053.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45FDF88B.30706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1174294887.2699.4.camel@averatec> On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 08:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Dan Williams wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 04:36 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> "PAM_KEYRING is a pam module that launches the gnome-keyring-daemon and > >> then unlocks a keyring using your login password." > >> > >> http://www.hekanetworks.com/index.php/publisher/articleview/frmArticleID/25/staticId/31/ > > > > +1 > > We have two bugs open against pam_keyring now both of which are very > important to fix if we need to put this in by default. CC'ing the > current upstream and Fedora maintainer > > * Should have an automated way to enable - > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=232857 > * Make it possible to change keyring password - > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212845 > > The first bug probably can fixed by adding rpm post installation > scripts. The second bug currently requiring patching gnome-keyring. Well you guys caught me at a good time. I am on vacation this week and one of the things I had planned was to finally push the next version of pam_keyring. This version will have password changing support in it and should close bug #212845. I also started working on mockups of system-config-authentication that include a tab that would detect if you had pam_keyring or pam_ssh was available and add check boxes to enable it at graphical login. Maybe I will spend and hour or two and finish that up. Does that sound like a good solution for bug #232857? Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Mar 19 09:23:40 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:53:40 +0530 Subject: install pam_keyring by default in the GNOME based live cd? In-Reply-To: <1174294887.2699.4.camel@averatec> References: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> <1174259891.8053.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45FDF88B.30706@fedoraproject.org> <1174294887.2699.4.camel@averatec> Message-ID: <45FE569C.1010504@fedoraproject.org> Jon Nettleton wrote: > Well you guys caught me at a good time. I am on vacation this week and > one of the things I had planned was to finally push the next version of > pam_keyring. This version will have password changing support in it and > should close bug #212845. Excellent. > > I also started working on mockups of system-config-authentication that > include a tab that would detect if you had pam_keyring or pam_ssh was > available and add check boxes to enable it at graphical login. This would be useful. Maybe I > will spend and hour or two and finish that up. Does that sound like a > good solution for bug #232857? I would want to actually have it all just work. gnome-keyring should offer to use the login password by default or just do it. I dont want to fiddle with options anywhere but exposing that options in system-config-authentication or gnome-keyring itself would help in the case that users for some reason want to have separate passwords for the login and keyring. Rahul From bnocera at redhat.com Mon Mar 19 09:26:16 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:26:16 +0000 Subject: install pam_keyring by default in the GNOME based live cd? In-Reply-To: <45FE569C.1010504@fedoraproject.org> References: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> <1174259891.8053.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45FDF88B.30706@fedoraproject.org> <1174294887.2699.4.camel@averatec> <45FE569C.1010504@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1174296376.13899.2.camel@bnocera.surrey.redhat.com> Hey Jon, Rahul, On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 14:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jon Nettleton wrote: > Maybe I > > will spend and hour or two and finish that up. Does that sound like a > > good solution for bug #232857? > > I would want to actually have it all just work. gnome-keyring should > offer to use the login password by default or just do it. I dont want to > fiddle with options anywhere but exposing that options in > system-config-authentication or gnome-keyring itself would help in the > case that users for some reason want to have separate passwords for the > login and keyring. Same thinking here. I really don't want to fiddle with any config files to enable pam_keyring. From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Mon Mar 19 11:00:10 2007 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:00:10 +0100 Subject: install pam_keyring by default in the GNOME based live cd? In-Reply-To: <45FE569C.1010504@fedoraproject.org> References: <45FDC5F7.6080808@fedoraproject.org> <1174259891.8053.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45FDF88B.30706@fedoraproject.org> <1174294887.2699.4.camel@averatec> <45FE569C.1010504@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1174302010.2699.10.camel@averatec> On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 14:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jon Nettleton wrote: > > > Well you guys caught me at a good time. I am on vacation this week and > > one of the things I had planned was to finally push the next version of > > pam_keyring. This version will have password changing support in it and > > should close bug #212845. > > Excellent. > > > > > I also started working on mockups of system-config-authentication that > > include a tab that would detect if you had pam_keyring or pam_ssh was > > available and add check boxes to enable it at graphical login. > > This would be useful. > > Maybe I > > will spend and hour or two and finish that up. Does that sound like a > > good solution for bug #232857? > > I would want to actually have it all just work. gnome-keyring should > offer to use the login password by default or just do it. I dont want to > fiddle with options anywhere but exposing that options in > system-config-authentication or gnome-keyring itself would help in the > case that users for some reason want to have separate passwords for the > login and keyring. Way back when I first started this work to better integrate gnome-keyring I had a grand vision of how this all worked. Basically I want to create an login keyring. The idea being that an option you can set for a keyring is on_login. Gnome_keyring would then add the keyringname and password to the login keyring. Pam_keyring would then unlock the login keyring and then for each keyringname it found try to unlock that keyring with the associated password. I think this would lend itself to allowing per application keyrings, and other options that would be better than stuffing everything in the default keyring. I think all of this will integrate better if seahorse replaces gnome-keyring-manager. Revelation might also be a good alternate frontend. Jon From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Mar 19 11:55:56 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:55:56 -0500 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: basic cd layout and localizations References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Sebastian Vahl wrote: > I've created a new basic layout for the cd: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD > The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. > Please tell me which package should be added or removed. Just found today you should add xine-lib-extras to the pkglist (for arts support). Hrm, in the meantime, will ping xine-lib maintainer to see if we can come up with something better/easier that doesn't pull in a whole bunch of other/extraneous deps. -- Rex From dfong at redhat.com Tue Mar 20 21:13:15 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:13:15 -0400 Subject: User Images Message-ID: <46004E6B.7010802@redhat.com> Hello All, I?d like to thank everyone for their submissions to the User Image Request. We received 67 submissions. Along with the images we already had and those from the User Pictures Project, this gave us a total of 223 images from which to choose. Needless to say, it was difficult to narrow these down to 24 default images, but here they are. [1] All 223 images will be packaged along with the release, but they can be found now at: [2] for the set of 24, [3] for extras, and [4] for the source files (warning 49.7M). I would encourage everyone to explore the others and find the one that works best for him/her. In addition, I hope that these will serve as inspiration for other submissions in the future. Thanks again to everyone for participating in this project. Contributors: Markg85 Ben Arnold John Baer Kay Bergemann Thomas Canniot Diana Fong Steven Garrity Dimitris Glezos Mike Langlie Jim Lawrence Garrett LeSage John W. Lockhart Maren Lockhart Jiri Jakub Masek Andreas Nilsson Jef Spaleta Jakub Steiner If I have missed anyone, I apologize. All the submissions and their contributor information can be found at GNOME-look.org (Content:Clipart, Name: UserImage - [name of submission]) and User Picture Project. All images are licensed as GPL. [1] http://www.isity.net/blog/wp-content/themes/default/images/pics/070319/024set.jpg [2] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/userImages/faces.tar.gz [3] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/userImages/extras.tar.gz [4] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/userImages/user-image-source.tar.gz Diana Fong --- Red Hat Visual Designer From e9925222 at student.tuwien.ac.at Thu Mar 22 14:57:51 2007 From: e9925222 at student.tuwien.ac.at (Martin Neuwirth) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:57:51 +0100 Subject: Online Questionnaire on Gnome/KDE for my master thesis ... Online-Umfrage zu Gnome/KDE =?iso-8859-1?q?f=FCr_meine?= Diplomarbeit Message-ID: <200703221557.51216.e9925222@student.tuwien.ac.at> Hello/Guten Tag! Read below the line with the many (---) signs for the german version of this mail. I am a student at the technical university of Vienna. I hope that you can help me out by taking part in my online questionnaire, which deals with usability aspects of the two biggest user interfaces Gnome and KDE for open source desktops. I am doing this research as a part of my theses in computer science. The questionnaire can be found at: http://www.schilf.at/gnomeKde/index.php?lang=en Even if you are not familiar with those terms right now your contribution is still of great value to me. Thank you for participating. (------------------------------------------------------------------) Ich bin Student an der Technischen Universit?t in Wien. Ich hoffe, dass du kurz Zeit hast und mir beim Herausfinden von Usabilityaspekten der beiden gro?en Benutzerschnittstellen Gnome und KDE behilflich sein kannst. Ich f?hre diese Umfrage im Rahmen meiner Diplomarbeit f?r Informatik durch und w?rde dich bitten unter folgendem Link: http://www.schilf.at/gnomeKde daran teilzunehmen. Auch wenn dir diese beiden Begriffe momentan unbekannt scheinen ist dein Beitrag wertvoll. Danke f?r deine Teilnahme. -- Martin Neuwirth -- Martin From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Thu Mar 22 18:05:47 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:05:47 -0600 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Online_Questionnaire_on_Gnome/KDE_for_my_ma?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ster_thesis_=2E=2E=2EOnline-Umfrage_zu_Gnome/KDE_f?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=FCr_meine_Diplomarbeit?= In-Reply-To: <200703221557.51216.e9925222@student.tuwien.ac.at> References: <200703221557.51216.e9925222@student.tuwien.ac.at> Message-ID: <4602C57B.4060008@prodigy.net.mx> Martin Neuwirth escribi?: > Hello/Guten Tag! > > Read below the line with the many (---) signs for the german version of this > mail. > > I am a student at the technical university of Vienna. I hope that you can > help me out by taking part in my online questionnaire, which deals with > usability aspects of the two biggest user interfaces Gnome and KDE for open > source desktops. I am doing this research as a part of my theses in computer > science. The questionnaire can be found at: > > http://www.schilf.at/gnomeKde/index.php?lang=en > > Even if you are not familiar with those terms right now your contribution is > still of great value to me. Thank you for participating. > I took your questionnaire, and even though it is very well structured and all, one particular area is bit tricky: CD-burning. For GNOME, there's GnomeBaker or Nautilus CD/DVD creator. Nautilus' burning software works rather well, but GnomeBaker lacks some features (when compared to K3B)... I guess that they're applications are different from case to case (being Nautilus' burning utility more useful for backups, and K3B/GnomeBaker for compositing of CD/DVD media for music, movie, mixed-mode or data projects). Just my two cents. Please do share your findings!! From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Mar 25 08:44:18 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:44:18 +0200 Subject: Compiz Integration Message-ID: <46063662.6070802@gmail.com> With fc6 compiz and AIGLX got into fedora and we should improve the user expirence with this in F7, not make it worse. We also need to integrate compiz better into our desktop. Right now its easy to active and to disable with the "Desktop Effects" app. But this does not work correctly due to some regressions. 1)Compiz gets started from the session manager and so its not possible to switch compiz->metacity because compiz restarts itself. 2)The next thing is that if compiz is configured to use 4 Viewports and Metacity 4 Workspaces compiz will ignore its own setting and use the metacity one until X is restarted. The god news are that this stuff is fixed, we only need to get the fixes into fedora ;) There is a patch for 1) in bugzilla: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229113 As for 2) I have sent a patch upstream which is merged into current git. It adds a --ignore-desktop-hints commandline switch to compiz which fixes this behavior. We need to either make it the default by patching compiz or start compiz with this option from "Desktop Effects". ( I can send a patch for desktop-effects/compiz if needed) After doing this the switching between metacity and compiz should work as fine as it did when fc6 got released. (The current f6 updates have the same problems). I am using a custom compiz package(git snapshot) with this changes and it works without any problems and is stable. (With compiz-0.3.6 the window decorator sometimes crashes but this is fixed in git; have not seen any crash with it). We have shipped a git snapshot in fc6 so this should not be the problem, also 0.4 should be out sometime soon. The next thing is libwnck. Compiz supports the "Always on top" feature but it is not selectable in the menu because of a bug in libwnck. There is a patch for it in the gnome bugzilla: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=352383 The patch in question is the _NET_WM_STATE_ABOVE.patch we should get this into our libwnck package. We already have patches in libwnck and gnome-panel for compiz integration so it would not hurt to add this small patch too. There is also the viewport.patch in this bugzilla entry. I am not using this myself right now (so I can't comment on its stability) but we also should aim to get this patch in too. P.S: please don't start a compiz <> beryl flamewar From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Mar 25 09:21:52 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:21:52 +0200 Subject: Compiz Integration In-Reply-To: <46063662.6070802@gmail.com> References: <46063662.6070802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46063F30.8070709@leemhuis.info> dragoran schrieb: > P.S: please don't start a compiz <> beryl flamewar Such flamewars hopefully won't be needed anymore in the future anyway: "Beryl and Compiz might merge again" http://blog.eikke.com/index.php/ikke/2007/03/24/beryl_and_compiz_might_merge_again http://lists.beryl-project.org/pipermail/beryl-dev/2007-March/000356.html CU thl From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Mar 29 01:29:40 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:29:40 -0400 Subject: Compiz Integration In-Reply-To: <460B14B9.4070605@redhat.com> References: <46063662.6070802@gmail.com> <460B14B9.4070605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1175131780.2987.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 21:22 -0400, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > I added the appearance, the workspace and the above patches from the GNOME > bugzilla locally and from a quick look-through they seem OK and they work > pretty well. I'm not sure if we wan't to add this stuff after the FC7 feature > freeze - Matthias? If they work thats fine with me. Wrt. to the ABOVE patch note that I sent mail to the wm-spec list to get _NET_WM_ACTION_ABOVE/BELOW added to the EWMH. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Mar 29 13:02:49 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:02:49 -0500 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: trim the fat References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Sebastian Vahl wrote: > I've created a new basic layout for the cd: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD > The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. > Please tell me which package should be added or removed. Playing a bit with the F7-test3-KDE-Live, here are some suggestions to consider: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RexDieter/F7t3-kde-trim-the-fat -- Rex From ml at deadbabylon.de Thu Mar 29 17:05:45 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:05:45 +0200 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: trim the fat In-Reply-To: References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070329190545.05537ebc@localhost.localdomain> Am Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:02:49 -0500 schrieb Rex Dieter : > Sebastian Vahl wrote: > > > I've created a new basic layout for the cd: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD > > The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. > > Please tell me which package should be added or removed. > > Playing a bit with the F7-test3-KDE-Live, here are some suggestions to > consider: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RexDieter/F7t3-kde-trim-the-fat If I haven't missed something all of the mentioned gnome-ish bits are dependencies or dependencies of a dependency from anaconda. And anaconda is used for harddisk installation. So If we don't find another way for installation (and I don't think that we should drop this one and fall out with the gnome-cd in this point) we have to live with it. krita, scribus and kdeartwork-extras could be excluded. IMO. twinkle could be a kde-alternative fo ekiga. But not sure, never used it. Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drago01 at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 17:09:32 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:09:32 +0200 Subject: Compiz Integration In-Reply-To: <460B14B9.4070605@redhat.com> References: <46063662.6070802@gmail.com> <460B14B9.4070605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <460BF2CC.3040609@gmail.com> Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > dragoran wrote: >> >> With fc6 compiz and AIGLX got into fedora and we should improve the >> user expirence with this in F7, not make it worse. >> We also need to integrate compiz better into our desktop. >> >> Right now its easy to active and to disable with the "Desktop >> Effects" app. >> But this does not work correctly due to some regressions. >> >> 1)Compiz gets started from the session manager and so its not >> possible to switch compiz->metacity because compiz restarts itself. > > I couldn't reproduce this, but it does look like compiz should > properly deregister itself. I sent a patch reply to your mail on the > compiz list, if you could try that out and see if it work that'd be > great. > ok I will test it but not today.. have some work that has to be finished by tomorrow :( >> 2)The next thing is that if compiz is configured to use 4 Viewports >> and Metacity 4 Workspaces compiz will ignore its own setting and use >> the metacity one until X is restarted. > > Yeah, I reproduced this and it's pretty confusing when you both have > workspace and viewports active. I'm not sure that feature is even in > compiz... it is... the cube does not work without viewports thats why because it has both now... > >> The god news are that this stuff is fixed, we only need to get the >> fixes into fedora ;) >> There is a patch for 1) in bugzilla: >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229113 >> As for 2) I have sent a patch upstream which is merged into current >> git. It adds a --ignore-desktop-hints commandline switch to compiz >> which fixes this behavior. We need to either make it the default by >> patching compiz or start compiz with this option from "Desktop >> Effects". ( I can send a patch for desktop-effects/compiz if needed) > > I'd rather not have to patch this - for our 0.3.6 RPM we'll probably > have to, but longer term I don't see why compiz would ever want to > have this behaviour. ok, then we should move this discussion upstream... look at this commit: http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/app/compiz.git;a=commit;h=256882741efef0dfc583304fe672045281a12895 > >> After doing this the switching between metacity and compiz should >> work as fine as it did when fc6 got released. (The current f6 updates >> have the same problems). I am using a custom compiz package(git >> snapshot) with this changes and it works without any problems and is >> stable. (With compiz-0.3.6 the window decorator sometimes crashes but >> this is fixed in git; have not seen any crash with it). We have >> shipped a git snapshot in fc6 so this should not be the problem, also >> 0.4 should be out sometime soon. > > I haven't seen it crash when I've used it. Do you have an idea what > the fix is in upstream or could you try to get a backtrace of the crash? I don't know exactly what has fixed it upstream.. I will test it tomorrow again, and try to get a backtrace, the problem is that it isn't easy to reproduce, sometimes it happens after some minutes sometimes it works for hours with no problems. as for current git, it never happend for me... > When we shipped a git snapshot there wasn't an official release out > yet. I'd like to stick with 0.3.6 until 0.4 is released, and in any > case, we're not making that change for FC7 at this point. > ok but 0.4 should be out before F7 final so I hope this makes it in. From drago01 at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 17:10:22 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:10:22 +0200 Subject: Compiz Integration In-Reply-To: <460B174B.8000205@redhat.com> References: <46063662.6070802@gmail.com> <460B14B9.4070605@redhat.com> <1175131780.2987.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <460B174B.8000205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <460BF2FE.10405@gmail.com> Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > Yup, saw that. Alright then, patches are go! Should be in rawhide > tomorrow. > :) From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Mar 29 17:46:42 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:46:42 -0500 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: trim the fat References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> <20070329190545.05537ebc@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Am Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:02:49 -0500 > schrieb Rex Dieter : > >> Sebastian Vahl wrote: >> >> > I've created a new basic layout for the cd: >> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD >> > The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. >> > Please tell me which package should be added or removed. >> >> Playing a bit with the F7-test3-KDE-Live, here are some suggestions to >> consider: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RexDieter/F7t3-kde-trim-the-fat > > If I haven't missed something all of the mentioned gnome-ish bits are > dependencies or dependencies of a dependency from anaconda. I don't think so, I checked already trying(1) to remove most of those packages (and they didn't touch anaconda). -- Rex (1) sucessfully, in most cases without odd deps, as noted by ?'s. From drago01 at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 20:23:43 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:23:43 +0200 Subject: Compiz Integration In-Reply-To: <1175131780.2987.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <46063662.6070802@gmail.com> <460B14B9.4070605@redhat.com> <1175131780.2987.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <460C204F.7070602@gmail.com> Matthias and idea about this bug? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10249 (seems to be libwnck related) From katzj at redhat.com Fri Mar 30 15:42:21 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:42:21 -0400 Subject: KDE-Live-CD: trim the fat In-Reply-To: References: <20070314011000.5b0cbcb8@localhost.localdomain> <20070329190545.05537ebc@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1175269341.12248.2.camel@erebor.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2007-03-29 at 12:46 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > Sebastian Vahl wrote: > > Am Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:02:49 -0500 > > schrieb Rex Dieter : > > > >> Sebastian Vahl wrote: > >> > >> > I've created a new basic layout for the cd: > >> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD > >> > The size on todays rawhide is about 667 MB. > >> > Please tell me which package should be added or removed. > >> > >> Playing a bit with the F7-test3-KDE-Live, here are some suggestions to > >> consider: > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RexDieter/F7t3-kde-trim-the-fat > > > > If I haven't missed something all of the mentioned gnome-ish bits are > > dependencies or dependencies of a dependency from anaconda. > > I don't think so, I checked already trying(1) to remove most of those > packages (and they didn't touch anaconda). A shocking amount comes due to pirut requiring gnome-session for the /etc/xdg/autostart directory. I'm unraveling that and putting the directory in the filesystem package. Jeremy