I have to agree that we shouldn't tune out our users at all, but give them what they want while staying true to the fedora standards as much as possible. I'll have to agree that Ubuntu may have Fedora in the Usability spot, but Fedora still has the chance to be better at that as well..... maybe there should be some sort of usability committee?? --cjr <div>On 7/27/06, Chris Chabot <<a href="mailto:chabotc@xs4all.nl">chabotc@xs4all.nl</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I have to go and agree with this point as if it came from my own lips. With a clear picture of the 'end users' in a developers mind (I play one at work too), you end up making far better end-user software then when you assume you know whats best for them.. often you can be right, but never stop to listen to those pesky users, because even though they don't know what the best solution is for their problems, they do take time out of their day to tell you of their problems. The negativity I taste in replies to the AIGLX thread, and in response to Hans's post make me have this underbelly type feeling that some strong advocates of pure open source solutions (a lofty goal as it is!) might sometimes forget the 'users of today's software'. Fedora Core has been called a 'incredibly fun technological playground' by some, and I think it sums up one of the things that make it so great; However one should always be open as well to accepting ones weakness, and I think 'userfriendliness' (in the widest meaning of the word) might be one of 'our' weak points, even more so if we allow our selves to say 'Its their problem, let them deal with it!', it shows a complete hostility to what in the end amount to the reason why we are in this, the users, the choice and the freedom. If all we want to focus on is technological development, and all users be dammed, then a majority of the world will often read about our latest and greatest achievements in the Ubuntu release notes. -- Chris Chabot -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com">fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com </a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com">fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com</a>] On Behalf Of Hans de Goede Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 14:44 To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core Subject: Fedora's intended target audience? Hi all, I've been following the AIGLX repository discussion from the sideline. And I'm a bit shocked by what I'm reading there. There seems to be strong support for releasing Xorg 7.1 as an update for FC-5 even though that will break both NVidea and Ati binary drivers. For the records all my computers have a radeon 9200 running OSS drivers. I'm a bit surprised about this, since I find this very end-user unfriendly. The possible dropping of these drivers was what triggered me to write this mail, but the question asked in this mail has be on my mind for a while. When replying please focus on the asked question and if you want to discuss the Xorg 7.1 update for FC-5, please do that in the AIGLX thread and not here, thank you! I've been putting much of my spare time into Fedora, because I believe in opensource and want to help and because I believe Fedora is a good distribution. I've got friends, my wife, my parent and here parents all running Fedora. I think in our effort to make the best opensource OS we're loosing sight of one very important aspect: the people for who we make that OS. Lately I've heard saying that Fedora is a testbed for new RH technology (which IMHO is partly true and partly is what makes it great!) and that its a distro by developers for developers. Know I'm very much hoping that the statement by developers for developers isn't true, because then I've been spending my time working on the wrong distro, as I want to work on a distro targeting a larger audience then just developers. So lets see what our officially state goals are, the frontpage of <a href="http://fedoraproject.org">http://fedoraproject.org</a> says: Fedora Core is an operating system and platform, based on Linux, that is always free for anyone to use, modify and distribute, now and forever. It is developed by a large community of people who strive to provide and maintain the very best in free, open source software and standards. Then on <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview</a> there is some more about our goals in much the same line. So Fedora is all about opensource, freedom and choice. Good! But Fedora as an OS is meant to be used by people, right? I mean what good is it to create "the very best in free, open source software and standards." OS, if almost noone is using it? So I'm assuming that we are making Fedora to be used by people, lets call these people our target audience. I've been searching the wiki for a definition of this target audience but I have failed to find it. So I'm asking it here, what is Fedora's intended target audience? Regards, Hans -- fedora-devel-list mailing list <a href="mailto:fedora-devel-list@redhat.com">fedora-devel-list@redhat.com</a> <a href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list </a> -- fedora-devel-list mailing list <a href="mailto:fedora-devel-list@redhat.com">fedora-devel-list@redhat.com</a> <a href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list </a> </blockquote></div>