<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Kevin Kofler <<a href="mailto:kevin.kofler@chello.at">kevin.kofler@chello.at</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Because upstream GNOME has repeatedly refused to make that change, they were even reluctant to expose that option in the UI, now they did that, but that was as far as they wanted to go. As for changing the default in Fedora, as the ones responsible for the Fedora GNOME packages are, or at least used to be, the same ones who made the upstream decision, good luck there too! </blockquote></div> Either you make a persuasive argument to change the default and get it changed across the board, or we learn to live with it. I'm not happy about seeing Fedora branding spread 7000 images over all possible combinations of default settings just because we have the tools to make it drop dead easy to do. Just because its easy to do, doesn't mean its appropriate. I consider this sort of stuff as downstream patch aggregation....which is something we are suppose to be avoiding. And these sorts of changes are completely orthogonal to issues of needed changes for localization variants. These sorts of changes are arbitrary personal preferences that are being changed because people are in disagreement with upstream. If we want to have officially localized variants, then I think its reasonable to expect the people looking to pass off their localized derivatives distributions as Fedora images stay as close as possible to the non-localized Desktop spin. Making arbitrary changes to defaults, just because you can, dilutes the Fedora brand. If people working on localized spins don't show some reasonable restraint on applying arbitrary changes, we aren't going to see officially localized spins...ever... because there will be no commonality between default behavior across images and that just isn't going to fly. If you want to make arbitrary customizations to the defaults and release that as a distribution, because you think you know better than upstream, fine go right ahead. I'm not going to try to stop you. You have the infinite freedom to do what you want because we've made the tools possible for you to do it. But please don't ask it to be call Fedora. Because Fedora as a project needs to continue to work with upstream...even in situations where individual Fedora contributors personally disagree about what the default setting should be. We need the Fedora images we release to behave consistently. -jef