<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> I wouldn't say Fedora 11 is that bad, but it has certainly has been problematic for me as well. I have to agree with Alan Cox that all of your issues were caused by preupgrade. The best thing to do is to create a separate partition for your home folder, then replace the operating system for new releases, and redirect Fedora to where your home folder is in fstab. However, I unfortunately have to say that since Fedora 9, user experience has been decreasing for me. Installing Fedora was a nightmare since trying to do anything other than replace the existing Linux Partition caused anaconda to crash, connecting to computers across my internal home network is precarious, and multimedia support is the worst I've ever seen it. I'd rather see nothing but a significant increase in reliability in F12 than to see any new features at all. On 07/25/2009 11:30 AM, Farkas Levente wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:ac75d95a0907250830v5216a6a1p913bda48877545fb@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">hi, first of all i use linux since '94 so i've seen a few releases. and learned to wait a few weeks before upgrade. now i try to upgrade from a few fully update f10 to f11. it's a nightmare! on a 5 years old hardware with raid1 system and boot partition anaconda crash with dmraid error while i don't use dmraid just mdraid:-( and since preupgrade also crash with the same error there is no way to properly upgrade from the latest release to the next release! not even with nodmraid kernel option. on system where anaconda do not crash f10 update's yum newer then on f11 iso's so the installer do not upgrade yum! so after the upgrade yum no longer works. as the installer do not upgrade kernel-devel akmods not able to rebuild kernel module for nvidia and ati so X not able to start. in order to be able to get the latest kernel-devel and akmods packages i need network. but as i don't have X i can't use these fantastic networkmanager tool and the old ifup wlan0 no longer works. but without networkmanager wifi is not working so my laptop is no longer usable! no X ati do not working, no wireless. all of my system has a wrong openssl version so eg ntp never start. after i manually get (with a pendrive) yum packages yum able to work but crash and ask me to send this bug to the developer (but still without network). there was some python 2.5 abi problem. how can a system critical tool like yum depend on such a broken thing like python? currently there is no way in installer to use rpm it use yum:-( after i update by hand a few dozen of packages with rpm yum start to work. now the worst part after i already install f11 yum show 2069 packages to update!!! just one month after the release! my system consist of 2059 packages at the same time yum download 2069 packages to update! what the hell i doing??? why do i upgrade the system for a half days if i upgrade all of my packages. why do i need a dvd iso? this download is more then the whole iso! and the real annoying part after i upgrade a few thousands of packages is the sound no longer works! there is no volume control i can't play even a wav file with play ...wav. is it so difficult thing? in 2009 it's a big requirement that an operating system be able to play a wav file? anyway nothing is working no sound at all skype is no longer works. tv tunner card no longer works. why anybody try to push this pulse stuff!? it's known to broken no one like it it's very early in development. after each fedora release a real big part of the mailing list traffic is about pulseaudio. let's just exclude it out and try to use it after 2012. are you really wanna suck so much with it? and the firefox and thunderbird betas... why? do we really need to be so cutting edge? they are broken and crash too often:-( thunderbird has no google calendar provider (while it had in f10) so it's worse then in f10. there is a testing thunderbird-lightening which has no corresponding thunderbird release (f11 was released on 9th juli:-) on a simple on borad intel video card X/gnome crash daily. and i could be list many other problems. so i really thing that's the worst then ever release of fedora. and tend to agree with dag that fedora is not suitable even for the desktop/workstation world. and i can't say anything those ubuntu users who said it's working in ububtu:-( if rhel 6 will be released i'll push a new company policy that no one can use fedora (it's so much problem for the users and the support that it's not worth for it) even as a desktop os just centos 6. a really angry fedora user. -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" </blockquote> </body> </html>