From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 1 17:09:13 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:09:13 -0800 Subject: thinking about growing the committee Message-ID: <1141232953.26154.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Before I dive into a day of bug fixing, I want to get the PMC[1] members thinking about some stuff related ya'll selves. There are lots of reasons to grow the PMC membership, and it's been a goal from the beginning. We started with a manageable number, and I think we have enough process and experience in place to grow comfortably. So, I made it a goal as the Large Cheese to see our size double by this time next year. Larger might be OK, but double seemed like a reasonable goal. Like all good leaders, I'm pushing the actual work out to other people. Well, I have to create the process docs and other supporting pieces to allow us to sanely grow, but that's easy, right? I'd like you all to keep your eyes open for someone you can personally mentor into doing the same kind or a dissimilar role as yourself. Part of that is pure sanity, you want to make sure you can take a break or be semi-active and still have the bus keep on truckin'. It's nice for lots of other reasons. It looks like I'm already doing this with Bob Jensen, but I'm not claiming him for exclusivity. :) I'm open to doing more than one person myself, and you all can consider the same thing. Myself, I'm looking into what I can do with the same in my position. Maybe set the mid-year as a time to define and see elected a co-chair? Get someone else used to the hot seat before next February. For those who haven't seen or memorized my (proposed) Chairdude Goals for 2006: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/FDPChair/Goals2006 cheers - Karsten [1] PMC is Project Management Committee, FESCo was the first, FDSCo was the second, and so forth. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Mar 7 22:51:54 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:51:54 +0000 Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 7 March 2006 Message-ID: <1141771914.4945.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> (21:09:27) quaid: (21:09:39) MicroBob: quaid, sure can (21:09:51) quaid: we're getting ready for the relnotes final for the ISO, but we can also chat about the state of the FDP world. (21:09:57) Eitch: meeting? :> (21:10:35) quaid: Eitch: yes, right now is the weekly Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo) meeting :) (21:11:16) Eitch: ah ok, i'll watch too :) (21:12:38) MicroBob: quaid, downloading deps now, should be done in a minute (21:14:03) stickster [n=pfrields at ip68-110-253-201.dc.dc.cox.net] entered the room. (21:14:05) quaid: thanks (21:14:11) stickster: yo-ho-ho (21:14:14) quaid: just in time for us to be running a little later :) (21:14:20) stickster: superfantastic! (21:14:21) Eitch: how about discussing about Andrew Martynov's question on the f-d-list? (21:14:24) Eitch: :) (21:14:26) Eitch: hi stickster (21:14:49) stickster: hi Eitch (21:15:17) MicroBob: qauid, done (21:15:22) MicroBob: ooops (21:15:28) quaid: thx (21:15:32) stickster: Have we started? (21:15:52) quaid: not really (21:15:56) quaid: just posted the schedule (21:16:01) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (21:16:21) ***quaid is filing a help request trying to solve the *docs* chain through CVS, too (21:17:07) quaid: MicroBob: can you also install gnome-doc-utils (21:17:15) quaid: that's where xml2po is from, right/ (21:17:21) stickster: correct (21:18:13) MicroBob: quaid, i am on it (21:18:45) MicroBob: done (21:19:31) quaid: ok (21:19:46) quaid: yeah, we do have an unresolved about partial translations of relnotes (21:20:35) stickster: I'm not a big fan of half-finished work but OTOH I don't want i18n community members to feel slighted (21:21:15) stickster: I am delighted we have what appear to be at least three complete translations (21:21:23) Eitch: In my opition, half-finished translations in the final version isn't good (21:21:28) elliss: Agree. (21:21:47) Eitch: s/opition/opinion (21:21:47) stickster: Since English is lingua franca, we have that to fall back on, at lesat (21:23:10) quaid: all right, I see the trend here (21:23:10) MicroBob: we need to expand the translation team so we have failover (21:23:13) quaid: yes (21:23:16) elliss: The Website can be updated with completed translations, so it wouldn't really be a final "no" (21:23:21) quaid: we need to be hooked with the actual trans project (21:23:21) stickster: that's right (21:24:01) megacoder: Won't a partially-translated doc just be a mixture of whatever and English? (21:24:39) stickster: megacoder: I think the worry would be a partially *updated* translation (21:24:47) MicroBob: I have mixed feelings about partial translations (21:24:59) stickster: I think that's possible, isn't it? (21:25:11) megacoder: MicroBob, then you are "partially" for partial translations? (21:25:26) stickster: That's, like, a 1/4 vote :-) (21:26:04) MicroBob: megacoder, in general I say no (21:26:16) Eitch: lol (21:26:19) MicroBob: it sets a bad standard (21:26:33) stickster: Bob's new E-i-C hat is firmly "on" (21:27:15) megacoder: MicroBob, I disagree. All software ships with bugs and partial functionality. (21:27:18) MicroBob: if we allow partial works now we will need to in the future (21:28:06) MicroBob: tommy we are not talking about bugs, we are talking about failure to complete a task (21:28:17) stickster: Yes, but the countless previous discussions have always landed on the problem that doc errors are more pernicious (21:28:27) MicroBob: it would be like shipping an installer that never works (21:28:29) megacoder: MicroBob, I'd prefer that everything was perfect, but FDP has zero control and/or influince the release date. (21:28:58) stickster: We have three (hopefully) final and complete translations... we should ship those and make any other updates available on the web site per normal, IMHO (21:29:22) MicroBob: stickster +1 (21:29:28) Eitch: stickster +1 (21:29:41) stickster: The problem is not that we have part English and part Elbonian, it's that we might have part English (up-to-date), part Elbonian (up-to-date), and part Elbonian (out of date). (21:29:52) quaid: that's a good point (21:29:56) quaid: I don't know if that is the situation or not (21:30:08) megacoder: MicroBob, my point is that there *are* reliable docs: the en/en_US versions. Even if the native docs have lesser confidence, I believe it's important that the I18N crowd see whatever fruition they have committed. (21:30:11) stickster: me neither... it would probably take a threshing of CVS to figure it out (21:30:51) MicroBob: as E-i-C for future releases I would saw we run what is complete (21:30:52) elliss: The aim ought to be to direct people to the online versions if possible - what is on the ISO is frozen, for goor and ill. (21:31:11) MicroBob: s/saw/say (21:31:40) MicroBob: elliss i agree (21:32:02) quaid: ironically, that argument supports both positions (21:32:06) MicroBob: we can not undo what is in the iso (21:32:27) elliss: That's my point (21:32:32) megacoder: MicroBob, then we just disagree. NP. It's your call. (21:33:29) megacoder: MicroBob, we have to balance the criticism of "no docs" .vs. "could be stale" docs .vs. "I don't speak English at all". (21:33:30) MicroBob: can we put a big note on a partial translation that points to the web? (21:33:54) elliss: Still a bit unprofessional... (21:34:06) quaid: MicroBob: it's there anyway, at the very top (21:34:08) megacoder: MicroBob, just build those partials with the default DRAFT=yes switch and let'em roll. (21:34:33) quaid: our CSS doesn't get used, iirc (21:34:40) quaid: it's all what's in fedora-release (21:34:48) MicroBob: more or less so then docs that have 2 of 31 parts done (21:34:49) stickster: right, it's all under one umbrella (21:35:29) MicroBob: could we draw a line in the sand sawing 50% or better? (21:35:55) MicroBob: 50% gets in, less does not? (21:36:24) megacoder: MicroBob, I'd think that counter-productive. It's either trustworthy to be used/included, or it's just so much bit-fodder. (21:36:32) MicroBob: thumb typing is not my strong point (21:37:05) Eitch: damn, i have to go home (21:37:08) Eitch: bbl (21:37:20) Eitch left the room (quit: "mv Eitch /home"). (21:37:57) ***quaid notices a commit from Andrew (21:37:59) quaid: says more to be done (21:38:01) stickster: MicroBob, *: I think the ja_JP is done except for some errant newlines (21:38:13) stickster: I removed the five or six in questions and the doc is building fine right now (21:38:18) stickster: That's four translations :-) (21:38:24) EvilBob: megacoder: I do see your point in not wanting to upset the translation team (21:39:01) quaid: stickster: can you commit your fixes? (21:39:03) EvilBob: But I think we also have a right to expect completion of the task (21:39:10) megacoder: EvilBob, thanks. (21:39:13) stickster: quaid: yes, in just a moment (21:39:22) quaid: cool (21:39:47) EvilBob: megacoder: my opinions are not carved in stone, I have went both ways over the last couple days (21:39:48) stickster: quaid: I only need to commit the po/ja_JP.po file, right? (21:40:02) stickster: Ha! validates too! (21:40:05) quaid: I guess so, yeah (21:40:19) quaid: hmm, one risk about pushing the translations like this is the introduction of inaccuracies (21:40:21) EvilBob: megacoder: and I do value your opinion (21:40:22) quaid: there is no time for QA (21:40:38) stickster: I know Tetsuo worked on this over the week (21:40:48) EvilBob: megacoder: it has been you that has been pushing me back and forth over the fence (21:41:05) stickster: quaid: his last commit at 1748 UTC says "ja_JP translation is added (on time?)" (21:41:08) megacoder: From a software viewpoint, an ISO release is a consistent CVS snapshot with not-too-many brokens. But always some. I'd prefer that basic docs like the relnotes were kosher, but "Darn it, I submitted before the deadline! And where is it?" (21:41:41) stickster: quaid: Let's make sure EvilBob is cool with it (21:41:42) stickster: EvilBob: Do you have a problem with us sending ja_JP to press as is? (21:41:55) ***megacoder maybe feels guilty about the up-to-the-last-minute toolchain issues ;-) (21:41:56) EvilBob: stickster: if it builds push it (21:42:20) stickster: EvilBob, quaid: committed, update and build away! (21:42:38) ***quaid is doing just that (21:42:43) megacoder: Yeah man! That's what I'm talkin about. (21:42:53) EvilBob: we push every thing we have at this point that is complete, even if we might have been lied to or has not been Qa'ed (21:43:08) EvilBob: that is what I am thinking (21:43:17) megacoder: Better bad breath than no breath at all. (21:43:33) EvilBob: late and complete is in IMO (21:43:49) megacoder: imo? (21:43:50) EvilBob: right up until they say "we need it now" (21:43:58) stickster: I think the main difference is Tetsuo was clear that he's finished; Andrew was clear about the exact opposite (21:44:23) EvilBob: stickster: I agree, but to what point was he unfinished (21:44:57) stickster: EvilBob: No idea, but it was a pretty small commit (21:45:20) EvilBob: stickster: also McGiwer was in chapter 3 of 31, this should not be acceptable IMO (21:45:44) EvilBob: an honest effort is just that and should be included (21:46:10) EvilBob: having life get in the way so you did not get time is a big "I'm sorry" (21:46:49) megacoder: The ru stuff validates... (21:47:08) EvilBob: megacoder: then push it (21:47:08) megacoder: The ru stuff generates HTML. (21:47:16) stickster: EvilBob: Wait (21:47:23) stickster: EvilBob: Now you're saying that you'll take whatever's done? (21:47:35) EvilBob: we get everything we can in this time (21:47:40) stickster: OK (21:47:46) quaid: and set the standard for next time/ (21:47:48) quaid: ? (21:47:58) quaid: s/set/rebase/ (21:48:14) stickster: Wow, OK (21:48:15) EvilBob: we communicate the deadlines better for next time with a standard of completion of what will be accepted (21:48:18) stickster: I guess I'm not in favor, but I ain't driving either, so have at it (21:48:40) elliss: What he said (21:48:59) EvilBob: we can use this time's partials as an example of what we would not like to do (21:49:44) megacoder: The ru stuff is a new language; there is no stale RU stuff to worry about. Locales from earlier RN's I'd take a different line on . (21:49:53) EvilBob: You guys are the FDSCo, I am just adding my 2bits (21:49:59) quaid: hee hee haa! (21:50:03) quaid: how about this question ... (21:50:15) megacoder: The ru stuff starts off in ru and then lapses into un-translated English. (21:50:18) quaid: do we _know_ that we aren't including older content from the previous -xy translation? (21:50:30) stickster: No (21:50:31) quaid: ok, there that helps (21:50:33) EvilBob: quaid: great answer (21:50:35) stickster: Because of fuzziness (21:50:37) EvilBob: errr (21:50:40) EvilBob: question (21:50:42) EvilBob: LOL (21:50:45) quaid: right (21:50:56) quaid: if we don't know, we are risking sending old content that may have bugs in it (21:51:08) quaid: it's one thing if the content is the same, just partially translated. (21:51:12) EvilBob: quaid: that is an issue I think (21:51:18) stickster: If we ship these ru notes, we have to be able to live with that. (21:51:24) quaid: but another if there is the three-way charlie foxtrot stickster surmises (21:51:35) EvilBob: quaid: and honestly one I had not thought of, can we diff the files to see? (21:51:55) stickster: That's why, given that Andrew clearly states that he is NOT done, I think it's silly to ship these, especially when we can publish them to the web between now and actual release date (21:51:58) EvilBob: again I am the new guy (21:52:04) EvilBob: so I am not sure (21:52:18) megacoder: Guys, I just lost the thread of the last few posts. (21:52:27) stickster: Points: (21:52:34) EvilBob: andrew is the ru translator? (21:52:39) stickster: EvilBob: correct (21:52:41) EvilBob: ok (21:52:50) stickster: 1. "ru" is clearly not done, translator says so himself. (21:53:03) ***megacoder stipulates #1 (21:53:10) stickster: 2. docs may have factual errors floating around from previous FC5t[1-3] versions (21:53:34) stickster: 3. all finished relnotes have canonical URL at top directing to web for newest releases (21:53:39) stickster: 4. Andrew may finish before 15 March (21:53:57) stickster: That just screams "don't do it, just publish the web version" to me (21:54:26) EvilBob: megacoder: see stickster is pulling me back over the fence (21:54:26) elliss: 5. We can't vet or edit the Russian text, because we can't read it (21:54:37) mspevack is now known as mspevack_out (21:54:42) mutk [n=mutk at pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mutk] entered the room. (21:54:43) stickster: elliss: exactly (21:55:02) EvilBob: it could say "Buy Micro$oft Stock" (21:55:04) stickster: And let's keep in mind Andrew emailed the list knowing he can't finish it until tomorrow (21:55:30) quaid: the whole point of the Web-published and big URL was to avoid having to stress about content that couldn't make it for the ISO (21:55:38) stickster: that was the point (21:55:44) EvilBob: quaid: right (21:55:50) quaid: there are already things added to the Wiki that could have been in the relnotes, but aren't, and we say that's OK because of the Web-publish (21:56:01) EvilBob: quaid: 1 (21:56:03) quaid: we can take the attitude that the ISO is just a snapshot in time (21:56:14) stickster: The whole project is like that when you think about it (21:56:28) quaid: also, when Anaconda supports pulling down the latest package, including fedora-release, we'll be able to update such things from installation point. (21:56:35) stickster: But with that in mind, it might be proper to do a "ru" snapshot (21:56:40) quaid: stickster: right, and we can be the vanguards of that attitude. (21:56:43) stickster: Bob, make the call (21:56:48) quaid: ha! (21:56:57) stickster: I'm just arguing my point, I'll stick by what Bob says (21:56:58) megacoder: OK. The translator says it's not finished. I believe him. I don't (21:56:58) megacoder: know what he's left as TODO's; it may not be front-to-mark clean. I (21:56:58) megacoder: withdraw my mindreading attempt (after all, this isn't a hanging (21:56:58) megacoder: chad). Don't send the "ru". (21:56:58) EvilBob: I am leaning to saying "incomplete" is out (21:56:59) quaid: I think we may have compromised alreay (21:57:14) quaid: see? (21:57:15) quaid: :) (21:57:27) stickster: Now we've all switched sides :-D (21:57:31) stickster: Jk (21:57:40) quaid: yeah, how dare we! (21:57:45) quaid: must stay the course and stuff (21:57:53) stickster: so final call is? (21:57:53) EvilBob: if it was complete and came in just before we needed to hand it upsteam then it is in (21:58:03) megacoder: Well, "ru" builds. Then ship it. (21:58:33) EvilBob: but the situation is that the translation is incomplete (21:59:09) EvilBob: I am back to complete is in, incomplete is out (21:59:12) stickster: Bob, call it, dude (21:59:44) megacoder: EvilBob, just say "no". (21:59:46) EvilBob: I may hate myself for it tomorrow but the call needs to be made (22:00:00) EvilBob: complete is in, incomplete is out (22:00:09) ***megacoder seconds. (22:00:10) EvilBob: that is my vote (22:00:44) stickster: OK, that still means we have a ***GREAT*** relnotes package, including "it", "pt_BR", "ja_JP", and "zh_CN" (22:00:49) megacoder: quaid, what makes you say that we may be compromised already? (22:01:01) quaid: oops (22:01:06) stickster: quaid: Yeah, how do your morals come into this at all? :-D (22:01:10) EvilBob: LOL (22:01:25) ***quaid is a neologist, apparently (22:01:27) stickster: I kid, I kid (22:01:36) quaid: may have reached compromise already, britches (22:01:43) quaid: pants and shortpants and britches (22:02:00) stickster: I thought you mistyped and called us bitches (22:02:06) ***megacoder awaits quaid to stop dithering. (22:02:11) EvilBob: sorry it was not clear to me that Andrew = the RU translation (22:02:50) EvilBob: quaid: when do we need to turn in the notes for inclusion? (22:03:04) EvilBob: quaid: do we have an exact deadline for that? (22:03:11) stickster: I think the idea is that Jeremy Katz will pull them after 2359 UTC, right? (22:03:14) quaid: EvilBob: I said 23:59 UTC we should be ready (22:03:17) quaid: yeah (22:03:21) EvilBob: ok (22:03:50) stickster: EvilBob: In case you didn't know, Jeremy is in charge of fedora-release... he takes a copy of the relnotes, and includes them in that RPM (22:04:03) EvilBob: stickster: OK (22:04:12) stickster: I'm going to drop him an email JIC (22:04:32) stickster: Does that sound reasonable? Incl. list of translations, etc. (22:04:58) MrTom [n=mrtom at 148.18.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] entered the room. (22:05:06) EvilBob: stickster: yes, please CC our list or at the very least me (22:05:14) stickster: yuppers (22:05:35) MrTom: hello what is the deadline to give the translated release notes? (22:05:44) EvilBob: MrTom: Now (22:06:10) EvilBob: MrTom: we have to have them upstream in the next two hours (22:06:21) MrTom: ok i d'ont think we will be ready then :s (22:06:35) MrTom: splinux, ping (22:06:41) EvilBob: MrTom: ok how far along are you? (22:06:42) splinux: MrTom, yes (22:07:17) EvilBob: MrTom: just starting? 50%, 70%, needs proofing? (22:07:18) MrTom: EvilBob, spinux is translating and i would have re-read his work (22:07:26) EvilBob: MrTom: OK (22:07:35) splinux: EvilBob, 9 march? hum.... (22:09:18) EvilBob: splinux: You may be looking at the wrong schedule (22:10:01) EvilBob: splinux: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule (22:10:15) ghenry left the room (quit: "oops"). (22:10:28) EvilBob: splinux: 06 Mar. Relnotes due from trans (22:10:57) splinux: EvilBob, arf, i've canceled my translation.... (22:11:07) stickster: splinux: You can still do a translation for the Web (22:11:13) EvilBob: splinux: we can still get your work in to the web release notes (22:11:18) stickster: :-) (22:11:35) quaid: oh, please, yes (22:11:44) quaid: let us not get stopped by the ISO as the end of all things (22:11:46) MrTom: splinux, let's do it then... when do we have to give it to you for the web version? (22:12:13) quaid: for the ISO-matching content that is in CVS right now (22:12:21) quaid: anytime it is ready, we can post it with the other ISO-matching content (22:12:41) EvilBob: the web version we have until release day and after correct? (22:12:44) quaid: we'll also be updating the content with new content from the wiki, which is a different snapshot (22:12:57) quaid: right, there are sort of two web versions published (22:13:12) quaid: 1. we publish original and translations of what went into the ISO (22:13:32) quaid: 2. we take another snapshot of the Wiki and post that, with any translations that can catch up (22:13:55) splinux: EvilBob, web release-notes? (22:14:06) splinux: EvilBob, where can i find it ? (22:14:42) EvilBob: splinux: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ for example (22:15:04) EvilBob: splinux: you will see that in the past we have not had translations of the updates (22:15:15) EvilBob: splinux: we would very much like to change that (22:15:54) stickster: splinux: Which translation are you working on? (22:16:41) splinux: stickster, http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/po/RELEASE-NOTES.pot?root=docs&rev=1.1&view=markup (22:17:10) stickster: splinux: Sorry, I meant which LANG (22:17:24) splinux: stickster, french (22:17:34) stickster: splinux: Thanks... noting for katzj (22:17:46) ***quaid is about to take off to jet home (22:18:04) EvilBob: quaid: soryr to take over the meeting (22:18:07) quaid: sounds like stickster has the hand-off for katz (22:18:12) quaid: EvilBob: it was the hot topic! (22:18:35) EvilBob: quaid: as long as megacoder will still talk to me it is all good (22:18:37) EvilBob: LOL (22:18:45) splinux: hum... what can i do for the moment? translate web release? (22:18:48) quaid: stickster: we can put a new tag on it ... like -F the release-notes-FC-5-GOLD-for-ISO (22:18:54) quaid: and let that be what jeremy gets (22:19:04) megacoder: EvilBob, I have not yet begun to talk to you... (22:19:39) stickster: quaid: I need to remove the ja_JP and it modules that are erroneously still in CVS (22:19:44) stickster: megacoder: That should be OK, right? (22:19:53) stickster: (i.e. just the directories, which have old XML in them apparently) (22:20:04) quaid: splinux: if you finish translating what is in CVS (HEAD) right now, we will make sure it gets published on the Web. (22:20:15) stickster: I did a manual "rm -rf it/ ja_JP/" and just tested the build, everything's peachy (22:20:22) megacoder: stickster, why do more than just take it off ${OTHERS} list? (22:20:32) quaid: splinux: next week we will make a new set of XML available that is an update of the content only for web publication, and it will be available for translation, too (22:20:35) stickster: megacoder: no, these are LANGs we're actually shipping (22:20:38) EvilBob: splinux: I think the french translation is quite important (22:20:52) stickster: Someone committed XML into release-notes/it/ and release-notes/ja_JP/ at some point along the way (22:21:04) stickster: So when I do "make distclean" and "cvs up" they all come back from the dead :-) (22:21:12) ***megacoder wakes up again. (22:21:17) stickster: np :-) (22:21:41) megacoder: Right, NO XML in an ${OTHERS} directory. In fact, no ${OTHERS} directories! (22:21:48) stickster: megacoder: right... I'll take care of it (22:22:08) megacoder: stickster, just make sure there is a po/${LANG}.po before you burn the ${LANG} dir... (22:22:16) splinux: quaid, when is the string freeze for the release web? (22:22:52) stickster: megacoder: Yup, I did (22:23:06) megacoder: stickster, good boy (22:23:24) stickster: megacoder: I learn, I learn (22:23:27) quaid: splinux: it is a slightly loose freeze ... we should have XML available a few days before 15 March. (22:23:44) megacoder: slurry? (22:23:48) splinux: quaid, ok thanks ;-) (22:25:13) ***quaid starts to pack up (22:25:30) elliss: One q before we all go... (22:25:55) elliss: I'd like to branch the yum tutorial for FC5 (22:26:26) elliss: but the notes specify branching docs-common to go with it (22:26:53) stickster: quaid: OK, gonna tag "FC-5-GOLD-for-iso" (22:27:25) splinux: quaid, ok i'm going to work on my po file :) release-notes... (22:28:21) quaid: elliss: do you need to branch or just tag docs-common? (22:28:42) quaid: elliss: branch if you expect that you need to continue development of the branch of the docs-common, but if a tag is good enough, isn't that best? (22:29:22) elliss: I don't know if I need to do either, it's just recommended on the Wiki page to take docs-common along (22:29:44) megacoder: but not for branching. All you probably need is to tag. (22:29:49) megacoder: Both (22:29:59) quaid: I think he might want to branch for the install-guide module, though (22:30:21) quaid: in that development might need to continue on a version-specific branch, with HEAD going into FC6, right/ (22:30:32) megacoder: Tag both, and then branch ONLY the install-guide? (22:31:04) elliss: The issue is that FC4 yum tutorial needs to be amended for FC5 (22:31:17) elliss: pirut, plugins etc. (22:31:21) quaid: oh, sorry, yum tutorial, right (22:31:29) megacoder: Even if the branch is updated, it will need to build with the current toolchain. Right? (22:31:59) elliss: Yes. (22:32:19) yeliaB[] left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (22:32:40) megacoder: For now just tag both, branch the guide and hope for the best ;-) (22:33:08) quaid: yeah (22:33:21) quaid: the tag will always let us branch the docs-common if it needed it (22:33:22) quaid: right? (22:33:29) elliss: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsTagging (22:33:57) elliss: This is what I was looking at (22:35:47) megacoder: That's more of a howto rather than a whento (22:36:13) elliss: Yep. Hence I decided to ask the oracle :) (22:36:31) stickster: Aaa, Oracle!!!! (22:36:32) ***stickster runs screaming (22:36:55) elliss: I've managed to supress those memories... (22:37:56) megacoder: select * from memories when 'weather = 'freezes over (22:37:57) quaid: ok, bbl, probably after 2359 UTC (22:38:24) megacoder: elliss, you sure know how to kill a conversation ;-) (22:38:36) megacoder: bbl, maybe (22:38:41) ***megacoder returns to Valhalla (22:38:43) stickster: quaid: to survey the damage ;-D (22:38:47) stickster: megacoder: bye -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Mar 13 18:30:18 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:30:18 -0600 Subject: [RFQ] Additional self-intro question Message-ID: <20060313123018.a1dca8e4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> The response to the last several self-intro's was to ask if the candidate wanted to be assigned a task. Should we add one more question to the self-intro template at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SelfIntroduction that asks the "are you self-directed or do you want to be assigned a task" question. Maybe replace the "anything else special" question. Or does that remove the personal touch? -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Mon Mar 13 20:54:55 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:54:55 +0000 Subject: [RFQ] Additional self-intro question In-Reply-To: <20060313123018.a1dca8e4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060313123018.a1dca8e4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1142283295.3092.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 12:30 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > The response to the last several self-intro's was to ask if the > candidate wanted to be assigned a task. Should we add one more > question to the self-intro template at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SelfIntroduction > > that asks the "are you self-directed or do you want to be assigned a > task" question. Maybe replace the "anything else special" question. > > Or does that remove the personal touch? Mmm...it does sound a bit "tick the box that applies to you" when done that way. Maybe we should go a bit further with the hand-holding, and offer a meeting/tutorial on IRC to people who Self Intro. It seems like we get Self Intros, suggest areas of work to them and have a pleasant e-mail exchange, and then nothing further really happens. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Mar 13 21:16:26 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:16:26 -0600 Subject: [RFQ] Additional self-intro question In-Reply-To: <1142283295.3092.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060313123018.a1dca8e4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1142283295.3092.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060313151626.4f61822b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Stuart Ellis , spake thus: > On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 12:30 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Or does that remove the personal touch? > Mmm...it does sound a bit "tick the box that applies to you" when done > that way. > Maybe we should go a bit further with the hand-holding, and offer a > meeting/tutorial on IRC to people who Self Intro. It seems like we get > Self Intros, suggest areas of work to them and have a pleasant e-mail > exchange, and then nothing further really happens. I think it's called "#fedora-docs" ;-) Maybe "#fedora-docs-what-have-you-done-for-me-lately"? -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Mon Mar 13 22:07:16 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:07:16 +0000 Subject: [RFQ] Additional self-intro question In-Reply-To: <20060313151626.4f61822b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060313123018.a1dca8e4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1142283295.3092.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060313151626.4f61822b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1142287636.3092.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 15:16 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Stuart Ellis , spake thus: > > > On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 12:30 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > Or does that remove the personal touch? > > Mmm...it does sound a bit "tick the box that applies to you" when done > > that way. > > Maybe we should go a bit further with the hand-holding, and offer a > > meeting/tutorial on IRC to people who Self Intro. It seems like we get > > Self Intros, suggest areas of work to them and have a pleasant e-mail > > exchange, and then nothing further really happens. > > > I think it's called "#fedora-docs" ;-) > > Maybe "#fedora-docs-what-have-you-done-for-me-lately"? Yes, we have an IRC channel, for those we already know what IRC is and how to use it. What I was proposing was explicitly inviting people to turn up and spend twenty minutes working on the Wiki, or whatever, to try to get them into the habit of contributing. Some might say yes and then never be heard from again, and we lose nothing. Maybe the only thing we can do is wait for self-motivated people to trickle in, but that seems likely to be a painfully slow process. Months ago, somebody mentioned the FreeBSD Handbook as an example of a success, and I had to point out that FreeBSD has something like 16 contributors for their documentation. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Mon Mar 13 22:34:09 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:34:09 +0000 Subject: [RFQ] Additional self-intro question In-Reply-To: <200603131517.43166.nman64@n-man.com> References: <20060313123018.a1dca8e4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1142283295.3092.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200603131517.43166.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1142289249.3092.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 15:17 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > On Monday 13 March 2006 14:54, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 12:30 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > The response to the last several self-intro's was to ask if the > > > candidate wanted to be assigned a task. Should we add one more > > > question to the self-intro template at > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SelfIntroduction > > > > > > that asks the "are you self-directed or do you want to be assigned a > > > task" question. Maybe replace the "anything else special" question. > > > > > > Or does that remove the personal touch? > > > > Mmm...it does sound a bit "tick the box that applies to you" when done > > that way. > > > > Maybe we should go a bit further with the hand-holding, and offer a > > meeting/tutorial on IRC to people who Self Intro. It seems like we get > > Self Intros, suggest areas of work to them and have a pleasant e-mail > > exchange, and then nothing further really happens. > > I think somewhat of a compromise is in order. Instead of asking such a > specific question, we could ask a more generic question. We need something > that is an ambiguous question, requires a bit of thought, and will always > result in a personally unique answer. This question should attempt to > determine not only whether we need to assign tasks to them, but also what we > can do to help them work most effectively. We could then continue to engage > them knowing a little better what to expect. > > A few ideas: > > "How can we best help you get started?" > This will usually result in either a request for specific tasks or a request > for information so that they may get started on their own. > > "What sort of workflow do you feel most comfortable with?" > This will usually result in an explanation of a process as they picture it, > by which documents can be prepared, reviewed, and published. Thanks to > ambiguity, we can also expect unexpected ideas or processes, perhaps beyond > the true meaning of the question. > > "What is your ideal work environment?" > This is also ambiguous and can result in different types of answers. With a > little luck, the person would describe the sort of relationships they expect > to see within the project. We also might hear some innovative ideas for both > physical and electronic environments that improve efficiency. (I've taken the liberty of CC'ing this to the FDSCo list). My suggestion may or not not be a very good one. The problem that I'm really stuck on is very few people go from saying hello, or doing a couple of edits of the Wiki, to turn into regular contributors whom we see routinely. This "same old faces" problem of having very small team of regulars doing a big chunk of the work seems pretty common in OSS projects, but it puts a lot of pressure on those people, and limits the amount of work that can be done. Currently, I don't expect more than one of the draft documents on the Wiki to be developed to a shippable state by the time that FC6 is released. I'm not sure that better processes/technology can help us much in this regard - to produce a tutorial or guide requires one or two people to spend a fair amount of time hammering away at the raw content, and we don't have many people consistently doing that work. The systems for handling content are shaping up to be awesome, but we currently have relatively few documents to make use of them... -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Mar 14 23:28:58 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:28:58 +0000 Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 14 March 2006 Message-ID: <1142378938.3067.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> (21:08:32) quaid: (21:08:39) quaid: although we can be building the release-notes with our fingers (21:09:52) stickster: If no one else here is running FC5 (Rawhide), I'll test those builds while we work (21:10:04) quaid: ok (21:10:11) ***quaid is committing the pa.po entities file (21:10:13) quaid: it went in (21:10:35) quaid: the Makefile should be updated for pa as well (21:10:50) stickster: I think it already is (21:10:56) stickster: It shows "active" in my copy I just updated (21:11:11) quaid: yes (21:11:36) aalam: quaid, thanks (21:11:42) quaid: sure (21:11:56) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (21:12:03) quaid: well, we're not quite at post-release but darn close (21:12:50) quaid: so, about the OPL change ... (21:12:58) megacoder: quaid, Sopwith, still a mystery why quad could commit pa.po but aalam couldn't. (21:13:16) BobJensen: OK I am here now (21:13:20) quaid: for the most part it has gone well and so forth, but we do need to do something about the jargon buster (21:14:22) stickster: quaid: Yes, I suggest (1) remove from f.r.c temporarily, and (2) I'll diff against original commits to see what we need to remove (21:14:39) elliss: There's page on the Wiki that does something similar, and a RH doc as well, so we could just drop it. (21:14:44) stickster: It shouldn't be as hard as it sounds; although it may remove a lot of material, I feel comfortable replacing it (21:14:57) stickster: elliss: We want it available in packages on a non-connected system though (21:15:10) quaid: we could look at single-sourcing, though (21:15:18) stickster: That would be fine (21:15:28) Sopwith: megacoder: Heya, I'm here now :) (21:15:50) stickster: But I'm not inclined to do that until the single-sourcing is seamless -- and I don't consider the relnotes process something I want to do for other docs :-) (21:15:57) quaid: word (21:16:05) quaid: but we need to be able to (21:16:06) stickster: (disclaimer: always my $0.02 of course, no offense to anyone intended) (21:16:31) megacoder: Sopwith, earlier aalam was getting "permissions denied" when trying to commit "docs-common/common/entities/pa.po,v"; although quaid had no trouble. Ideas? (21:16:32) MicroBob left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (21:16:48) quaid: I need to find a way to get an Infrastructure team focused on providing the same functions in MoinMoin (21:17:11) stickster: megacoder: Is it possible he checked out anonymously? Or did he do a commit in the same module, another flie? Sorry, log is spotty due to my popping in and out (21:17:18) quaid: Sopwith: we tried all the local envars and such, seemed fine, also 'cvs -t' was ok (21:17:20) Sopwith: megacoder: aalam is not in the 'cvsdocs' group. (21:17:29) quaid: oh! (21:17:34) megacoder: Q.E.D (21:17:35) stickster: aha (21:17:37) quaid: but how did he commit to release-notes? (21:17:46) Sopwith: He has overall ssh access because he is in the 'cvsfedora' group. (21:18:24) quaid: oh, he didn't do the content commit ... that was a different translator? (21:18:59) ***quaid always forgets the cvs* groups, kind of invisible (21:19:34) stickster: Hmm, there are no "pa" common entities in docs-common/ (21:19:58) stickster: May not be a problem... hang on, will copy in en_US template for now (21:20:00) quaid: i just committed one to common/entities/ ? (21:20:16) stickster: I see (21:20:27) stickster: It's a local build problem ;-) (21:20:53) stickster: Oops, no, it's a docs-common/common/entities/Makefile problem (21:21:44) ghenry: switching (21:21:46) ghenry left the room (quit: "oops"). (21:22:41) stickster: Well, there's definitely no "legalnotice-relnotes-pa.xml" in docs-common/common (21:23:02) aalam: stickster, no such file (21:23:12) quaid: do we have a definitive list of which files need translating (21:23:13) quaid: ? (21:23:15) stickster: There needs to be :-) (21:23:22) ***quaid notes in the schedule about the jargon-buster and ... (21:23:36) stickster: quaid: Probably not... probably because the number was so small (at one time at least) (21:23:52) quaid: yes (21:24:13) megacoder: stickster, have you updated the "entities/Makefile"? (21:24:44) stickster: just now :-) (21:24:45) ***quaid looks at DocsRawhide (21:24:49) quaid: something funny has been happening there ... (21:24:54) stickster: No kidding :-D (21:25:01) quaid: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/ (21:25:13) stickster: Patrick and I need to debug this but it's difficult without my having shell access there... he sent me a log I think... lemme see (21:25:16) quaid: sometimes directories appear and disappear, and I can't necc. get a working build (21:25:30) megacoder: stickster, and the entities-pa.*? (21:25:44) quaid: ok, we can shelf the DocsRawhide for now (21:25:48) quaid: table, whatever (21:25:53) stickster: megacoder: Whoops (21:25:55) stickster: hang on (21:26:13) stickster: I always forget that this module changes the rules (21:26:38) stickster: OK, done (21:26:42) megacoder: stickster, yeah, that's its whole raison detre' or whatever. (21:26:55) stickster: Reason for being Dieter? (21:27:12) megacoder: That is so bingo! (21:27:50) stickster: jeremy is asking about release-notes translations (21:27:54) stickster: (q.v. #fedora-devel) (21:29:03) stickster: OK, so how about that legalnotice-relnotes? (21:29:30) ghenry [n=chatzill at mail.suretecsystems.com] entered the room. (21:29:47) Sonar_Guy [n=sglaser at fedora/sonarguy] entered the room. (21:29:52) stickster: aalam: If you're able to do that one real quick like, I think we can get this out the door (21:30:28) megacoder: stickster, how can that be done quicklike? Doesn't that take some lawyer talk? (21:30:50) ghenry: Is release date still 20th? (21:30:52) quaid: this this the wrapper text, right? (21:30:55) quaid: ghenry: yes (21:30:55) stickster: No, that one's plain English (ahem, sorry) because it refers to the actual legal notice instead (21:30:58) BobJensen: ghenry: Roger (21:31:03) ghenry: cool (21:31:18) quaid: yes, it's the one that appears at the top of the page, right? that links to the web notes and legalnotice (21:31:24) stickster: correct (21:31:31) stickster: it's only a couple sentences, no legalese (21:31:43) quaid: aalam: yes, that is a short one to translate, can you do that one quickly? (21:31:55) aalam: quaid, stickster sure (21:31:56) quaid: sorry we do not have a canonical list of what to translate (21:32:05) stickster: docs-common/common/legalnotice-relnotes-pa.xml (21:32:16) aalam: stickster, thanks (21:32:17) Eitch: humm (21:32:25) Eitch: i also didn't translated legal* (21:32:25) stickster: aalam: no, thank YOU! :-) (21:32:52) stickster: Eitch: you have time if you do it right now (21:32:53) aalam: :) (21:33:02) stickster: just docs-common/common/legalnotice-relnotes-pt_BR.xml (21:33:20) Eitch: I thought that legal translations were not to be done (21:33:22) Eitch: but ok (21:33:30) Eitch: checking out (21:33:36) stickster: Obviously you guys can ignore the comment text ;-) (21:33:51) stickster: Eitch: this one isn't truly legal text, so it's OK (21:34:48) ***stickster thinks we should probably change the name at some point, or at least include a comment, so it's not so misleading (21:34:57) quaid: yes, agreed (21:35:04) quaid: and have that list of files that need translating :)O (21:35:10) stickster: yes (21:35:26) megacoder: Was that a Snidely Whiplash emoticon? (21:35:32) stickster: Mwahahaha (21:35:43) quaid: ha! (21:36:12) Eitch: what is the deadline? one hour? two hours? :D (21:36:20) ghenry: 30mins (21:36:25) stickster: If that :-D (21:36:27) BobJensen: 10 minutes (21:36:40) stickster: Eitch: as quick as you can! :-) (21:36:41) Eitch: omg (21:36:53) Eitch: :P (21:36:55) Eitch: ok (21:36:57) BobJensen: Jeremy is getting jumpy (21:37:10) ***stickster leads crowd in chanting "Go! Go! Go!" (21:37:12) Eitch: hum, it is a short one (21:37:15) stickster: Very (21:37:16) Eitch: it'll be easy (21:37:44) Eitch: -> leave this or use fedora-entities-pt_BR.ent? (21:37:50) stickster: switch it (21:37:56) Eitch: ok (21:38:59) quaid: for any others, we'll leave the English, right? (21:39:04) quaid: or will this cover all? (21:39:15) stickster: Right (21:40:44) Eitch: commited (21:40:49) stickster: Eitch: sweet! (21:41:16) Eitch: anymore things? (21:41:20) EvilBob: Email from Andrew Re: RU translation (21:42:04) stickster: Did he complete the missing sections? (21:43:01) stickster: megacoder: I've been wondering whether we should make better use of xmllint in our bulid process (21:43:15) stickster: sometimes xmlto is not as flexible as preprocessing with xmllint and then running xmlto (21:43:17) megacoder: sure. why not? (21:43:47) megacoder: What flexiblilty are you after? (21:44:22) stickster: The serialization of entities into the document seems to be different between our normal build process and the heretofore working packaging process (21:44:50) megacoder: ?????? (21:44:55) stickster: I think I can figure out the Right Thing to do, just need to run some tests before I propose a strategy (21:45:19) stickster: I'm probably misusing terms... I mean the order in which things are parsed in conjunction with the normal XInclude process (21:46:17) stickster: EvilBob: The "ru" looks good! (21:46:19) megacoder: I'd like to see the problem before considering if a solution is necesssary. (21:46:42) stickster: megacoder: Makes sense, I can send you a build log after I verify my locale "fixes" are good (21:46:58) megacoder: Bueno (21:48:29) stickster: quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation might be a good place for the "which common files to translate" list (21:48:57) quaid: ok, I have the pa legal notice one sec (21:49:02) ghenry: brb (21:49:04) quaid: yes (21:49:06) ghenry left the room (quit: "Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]"). (21:50:13) quaid: ok, legalnotice-relnotes-pa.xml committed (21:51:58) aalam: quaid, thanks (21:53:12) stickster: Testing now (21:55:10) stickster: Hmm, I still see significant portions of the "pa" are fallbacks to en_US (21:56:20) ghenry [n=chatzill at mail.suretecsystems.com] entered the room. (21:56:23) Eitch: pt_BR? (21:58:09) Eitch: I hope that's ok, cause I have to go home, bbl! (21:58:13) Eitch: []'s (21:58:17) Eitch left the room (quit: "mv Eitch /home"). (21:58:17) stickster: Eitch: you're good to go (21:58:57) stickster: EvilBob: Anybody here see the same with "pa" version? (21:59:39) BobJensen: stickster: I have not been watching, tell me what I need to do (21:59:41) aalam: stickster, is it on web? or in cvs-dir? (21:59:48) stickster: aalam: CVS only (22:00:17) stickster: BobJensen: Do "cvs up" and then build the pa version with "make html-nochunks-pa" (22:00:39) aalam: stickster, k, I will try to build (22:00:59) stickster: aalam: This is a good way of seeing if things are missing in the translation (22:01:08) quaid: files missing that were not added? (22:01:22) stickster: Not sure, or could be PO discrepancies (22:01:28) stickster: I don't fully understand the msgmerge process (22:01:46) stickster: I thought megacoder had built in all the smarts for this, so if there's some problem there it must be a weird one (22:01:55) aalam: ah (22:02:48) stickster: Jeremy wants the release notes in, like, 3 minutes (22:03:32) aalam: stickster, I got one error in po (22:05:43) stickster: Can it be fixed (22:06:30) megacoder: How to reproduce? (22:08:43) megacoder: I see it now. (22:08:46) BobJensen: I have "Warning: image file '/wiki/ntheme/img/alert.png' not found." several times (22:09:01) stickster: That's normal, won't affect the build (22:09:18) stickster: Those are files that weren't used... the "placeholders" have that image inside (22:09:21) BobJensen: No localization exists for "po/pa" or "". Using default "en". (22:09:28) stickster: Make sure you've done "cvs up" (22:10:30) aalam: stickster, 2 min pls, I m trying... (22:10:34) stickster: aalam: OK (22:10:44) BobJensen: I did in release-notes (22:10:53) quaid: docs-common, too (22:11:03) stickster: right (22:11:15) BobJensen: Doing that now (22:11:20) mspevack_mtg is now known as mspevack (22:11:32) stickster: Everything is building, it's just a matter of missing a few strings, looks like t'me (22:11:48) stickster: Notified jeremy of status... he replied, and I quote: "k" (22:11:56) BobJensen: K (22:11:58) BobJensen: LOL (22:11:59) stickster: k (22:12:20) ***megacoder gotta fix the watermark. (22:12:25) stickster: 'm gng t s ll cnsnnts frm nw n (22:12:27) BobJensen: we deserve cookies (22:12:42) BobJensen: K (22:12:58) BobJensen: w dsrv cks (22:13:07) stickster: heh (22:13:15) stickster: ps, _ mn, hh (22:14:41) aalam: stickster, No change is status for pa.po (22:14:53) stickster: ? (22:14:53) BobJensen: I am getting just about the same error after the cvs up (22:15:04) megacoder: "make html-pa" works for me. (22:15:23) BobJensen: megacoder: I was trying the nochunks (22:15:41) BobJensen: No localization exists for "pa" or "". Using default "en". (22:15:43) megacoder: "make html-nochunks-pa" works for me. (22:15:43) ***quaid gets the same error, too (22:15:48) quaid: but I'm building on the same system, I reckon (22:15:49) aalam: I have error "mages/watermark-pa.png': No such file or directory" (22:16:00) BobJensen: quaid: nope I am on my desktop (22:16:04) quaid: ah, ok (22:16:07) stickster: BobJensen: FC4? (22:16:16) megacoder: aalam, I've just committed a dummy. Do a "cvs update docs-common/images" (22:16:21) BobJensen: stickster: correct (22:16:25) aalam: megacoder, k (22:16:53) stickster: Both work for me now (22:17:05) ***megacoder pats stickster on the head (22:17:32) BobJensen: $ make html-nochunks-pa (22:17:32) BobJensen: Makefile:9: *** missing separator. Stop. (22:17:57) stickster: BobJensen: do "rm -f Makefile && cvs up Makefile" (22:18:13) megacoder: brb (22:18:30) stickster: I think you may have a conflict from a local edit hanging around (22:18:39) stickster: Did you get any messages back from "cvs up" with a C in front? (22:19:05) quaid: hmm, I'm still getting the "No localization ..." error but it seems to be building something (22:19:06) BobJensen: No ended up in the wrong dir (22:19:23) stickster: quaid: Are you talking about the perl warning? (22:19:28) quaid: no (22:19:37) BobJensen: No localization exists for "pa" or "". Using default "en". (22:19:42) quaid: yep (22:19:51) stickster: You guys are just weird (22:20:03) ***stickster needs a FC4 box in his VMWare (22:20:19) BobJensen: want a shell (22:20:19) stickster: Hang on (22:20:28) stickster: BobJensen: that would be great (22:20:36) BobJensen: stickster: one min (22:20:37) quaid: well, cross-version building is not our goal atm :) (22:20:43) quaid: but it's a good ida (22:20:46) quaid: ideda (22:20:53) stickster: Exactly... hang on while I check with a clean user here (22:21:25) ghenry: night all (22:23:24) BobJensen: is building clean here now other than that localization issue (22:29:49) ghenry left the room (quit: "Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]"). (22:31:31) Sopwith left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (22:32:33) stickster: aalam: Status? (22:33:07) aalam: Error 3:( (22:33:23) stickster: BobJensen: OK, my advice would be to pull "pa" from the ISO for now then (22:33:31) stickster: We've gotta let Jeremy get his work done too (22:33:42) BobJensen: stickster: I am with you (22:34:03) stickster: I can take care of the CVS change, just a Makefile change and a new tag generation (22:34:21) BobJensen: OK (22:34:25) stickster: Tags are cheap... rather than move the existing tag, anyone have objections to using a new one? (22:34:41) megacoder: Preferred, I'd think. (22:34:45) stickster: 'FC-5-GOLD-for-slip' (22:34:48) stickster: Good? (22:34:53) stickster: sorry, '-for-slip-ISO' (22:35:08) BobJensen: Good (22:37:53) stickster: aalam: This only means we push this off to the Web, not a big deal (22:38:04) BobJensen: quaid: ping (22:38:17) quaid: Bob-Laptop: pong (22:38:25) quaid: -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Thu Mar 16 22:03:04 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:03:04 +0000 Subject: Away Next Week Message-ID: <1142546584.3084.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm going to be away next week, and will probably only have limited network access. I'll try to migrate the IG to en_US and commit some updates to the Yum tutorial before I go. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Mar 17 00:58:32 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:58:32 -0800 Subject: Cancelling 21 March meeting (was Re: Away Next Week) In-Reply-To: <1142546584.3084.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1142546584.3084.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1142557112.26415.206.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-03-16 at 22:03 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > I'm going to be away next week, and will probably only have limited > network access. I'm going to be in Raleigh, NC next week and expect to be in meetings and such during our meeting time. I thought I'd wait and see, but with one of us unavailable, I might as well break the quorum and give us the week off. Go celebrate the release and work well done. This shows what we'll be working on next: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Editor * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Fedora Documentation Project http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Mar 19 22:11:38 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:11:38 +0000 Subject: Updating Web site for FC5 Message-ID: <1142806298.32741.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've now updated the Yum tutorial for FC5, so these documents should now be ready to push to the Web site when FC5 is formally released. The "BETA" tag is still in the IG title in CVS, since it's a beta until it's live... Since I'm unlikely to have much network connectivity for the week, if anything needs changing, please feel free to go ahead without waiting for me. Cheers, -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Mar 19 22:27:39 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:27:39 +0000 Subject: Updating Web site for FC5 In-Reply-To: <1142806298.32741.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1142806298.32741.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1142807259.32741.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 22:11 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > I've now updated the Yum tutorial for FC5, so these documents should now > be ready to push to the Web site when FC5 is formally released. > > The "BETA" tag is still in the IG title in CVS, since it's a beta until > it's live... To clarify this, it's ready to go, but the title has "BETA" in it until it does go live. > Since I'm unlikely to have much network connectivity for the week, if > anything needs changing, please feel free to go ahead without waiting > for me. > > Cheers, > > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 28 16:50:44 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:50:44 -0800 Subject: meeting focus today Message-ID: <1143564644.13799.138.camel@erato.phig.org> Today I'm going to be in meetings pretty much all day (2000 to 0200+ UTC), but I can have some attention for our meeting. In other words, I definitely don't want to cancel. I think we have almost recovered from FC5 release, right? Paul -- can you run the meeting and I'll just attend and ideate accept assignments? There are a few items here that are marked for post-FC5 work. Shall we get started? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Editor * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Fedora Documentation Project http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Mar 28 22:29:27 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:29:27 +0100 Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 28th March 2006 Message-ID: <1143584968.8606.1.camel@Vigor11> (22:06:28) stickster: (22:06:33) stickster: Hi everybody (22:06:41) ghenry: hi (22:06:48) megacoder: goodmorning, teacher (22:06:52) stickster: Heh (22:07:10) stickster: I'm going to just roll down the usual list: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (22:08:06) stickster: OPL change... I'm going to take this to the completed list. The jargon-buster has been purged of non-OPL'able content, so it can be republished, tonight if possible (22:08:26) stickster: Is there any other open issue with OPL that anyone's aware of? (22:09:21) megacoder: stickster, I don't think you will be able to CVS tonight. (22:09:31) megacoder: In fact, nobody can CVS (22:09:33) elliss: Right. (22:09:36) megacoder: gebroken (22:09:44) stickster: Really? the cvschroot doesn't work? (22:09:52) megacoder: "ssh denied" (22:09:53) ***stickster hasn't tried it yet, just catching up with mail (22:10:23) megacoder: nman64 asserts the server is offline. (22:10:30) megacoder: Sopwith, got any insight? (22:10:49) stickster: crapola (22:11:12) Sopwith: megacoder: CVS just isn't working for now. Sorry... (22:11:52) megacoder: Could the outage be announced on the Fed ML's? Lots of folk are down and wondering what's up. (22:12:05) ***megacoder notices kewl pun (22:12:37) stickster: Sopwith: How can you laugh, when you know I'm down? (22:12:44) ***stickster runs away (22:13:12) stickster: All right, I'll split that task out so we can credit OPL work (22:14:02) stickster: OK, DocsRawhide (22:14:27) stickster: We need someone to help troubleshoot this. I was going to try to do this with nman64_away, but I just don't have the time (22:14:38) stickster: Is there anyone willing to lend Patrick a hand? (22:14:53) elliss: What is the issue (broadly) ? (22:15:27) stickster: The webtest.f.r.c host uses (or is supposed to use) the "build-docs" stuff in our infrastructure/ module to hourly check out and build drafts of all the active documents (22:15:53) megacoder: Can non-RH'ers apply? (22:15:54) stickster: It is clearly not working. Certain things are being built, like specfiles from the XSL, but the docs are not. (22:16:13) stickster: megacoder: I don't see why not. In fact, I would think nman64_away should have some backup admins in the community. (22:16:32) stickster: Would you like to take up the cause? (22:17:03) stickster: (there may already be some people with said access, but I doubt any of them know our toolchain as intimately as thee.) (22:17:09) ***megacoder pauses to reflect (22:17:32) megacoder: Yeah, get me access and I'll give it a once-over. (22:18:16) stickster: I don't have any granting privileges there... I don't even have access myself! Just email Patrick and let your sparkling personality do the rest. :-) (22:19:16) Sopwith left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (22:19:18) stickster: ghenry: Recruiting is next up... (22:19:33) stickster: We seem to have a steady influx of new folks since pre-FC5, hopefully more soon (22:19:41) Eitch: hey guys, look at this: http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/tmp/sex.txt lol (22:19:52) megacoder: stickster, just to be clear: which patrick? (22:20:02) stickster: Sorry, Patrick Barnes (nman64) (22:20:08) megacoder: roger that (22:20:11) stickster: cool (22:20:30) stickster: Eitch: meeting in progress, we'll get back to you :-) (22:20:44) Eitch: uh, sorry, didn't see (22:21:08) stickster: ghenry: Contributor list is relatively up to date, yes? I haven't been able to spend as much time on the list in the last few weeks as I usually do (22:22:08) stickster: I know Gavin may be busy parenting :-) he can come back async when he's ready (22:22:21) stickster: BobJensen: You out there? (22:23:25) stickster: I was hoping to get some information on what people think of how the "wiki as canon" process is working, and what its future is... (22:23:35) ghenry: It very out of date (22:23:43) ghenry: Need to get up to speed with it (22:23:58) stickster: ghenry: Do you need some help? That might not be a bad "get acquainted" task for one of our newcomers (22:24:12) stickster: Easy thing for them, to comb the archives and check against the wiki list (22:24:42) ghenry: would be nice (22:24:54) ghenry: not enough time just now ;-) (22:25:11) stickster: ghenry: Lance Benjamin (22:25:28) stickster: Picked at random out of my Evo folder (22:25:29) ghenry: cool (22:25:33) ghenry: I'll ping him (22:25:42) stickster: Just cc the list, we'll cheer him on as needed :-) (22:26:29) BobJensen: stickster: I am (22:26:36) stickster: BOB!!!!!!!!!!!! (22:26:44) BobJensen: sorry was napping (22:26:55) stickster: (Imagine that like "Norm!!!" on Cheers) (22:26:59) Eitch left the room (quit: "mv Eitch /home"). (22:27:55) stickster: BobJensen: Do you have any reportable status, thoughts, musings, etc. on wiki process for docs? Anything on the horizon? (22:28:27) BobJensen: I have some targets set out for a Release Notes Errata (22:28:36) BobJensen: sent out (22:28:56) stickster: Oh right, there's a relnotes freeze coming shortly, yes? (22:29:12) BobJensen: we are targeting a freeze and snap shot on Tuesday (22:29:26) BobJensen: Push to trans on Thursday (22:29:47) stickster: Cool (22:30:02) BobJensen: update the web on the 15th and maybe get us our own package in to the mix so we can push updates to the users (22:30:52) BobJensen: I would like to split the release notes out of the fedora-release package (22:31:03) stickster: BobJensen: That's a fine idea IMHO. (22:31:35) BobJensen: that way as we have updates we would not goof with the main release package (22:32:25) Sopwith [n=sopwith at nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] entered the room. (22:32:29) BobJensen: We have a number of open bugs and ites that have been eailed that I would like to clear up before tuesday (22:32:42) stickster: We'd just need to coordainte with Jeremy to make sure that (a) package ends up in Core, probably as a dependency for fedora-release; and (2) we have some avenue to coordinate updates, whether with him or otherwise (22:32:50) elliss: Can that be done without issuing a new release package to tidy up ? (22:32:57) Sopwith left the room ("Leaving"). (22:33:08) stickster: elliss: I think that would be the best idea, yes... (22:33:20) BobJensen: stickster: working with Jeremey or Jesse will be part of the task IMO (22:33:29) stickster: BobJensen: Absolutely... (22:33:58) stickster: This has interesting implications for the wiki-ized process, though. (22:34:40) stickster: Does anyone know what the CMS project status is, generally at least? (22:35:40) BobJensen: stickster: I think nman64 will have the most info for us (22:36:14) stickster: OK, we can hit him up for that later (22:36:17) BobJensen: stickster: moving the beats to a CMS other than the Wiki will get a big +1 from me I know (22:36:46) stickster: A lot of the improvements we need to make for transitioning canonical docs online for community support revolve around how well they will support export to DocBook (22:36:48) BobJensen: IMHO the Wiki works but is not as good as it could be (22:37:10) stickster: I think it depends on how you define "works" :-) (22:37:32) stickster: If "works" means, "can be used to produce our docs," then yes, it's great... (22:37:43) BobJensen: stickster: I am to the point I refuse to question the value of Wiki in some company (22:37:49) stickster: Heh (22:38:07) stickster: I'm a big fan of it in most practice, because it encourages community support (22:38:24) stickster: But unfortunately, it's very bad for sharing with our code system (i.e. build, CVS, etc.) (22:38:32) BobJensen: true (22:39:50) ghenry: night all. Too late for me now. Tired old man at 27 ;-) (22:39:54) BobJensen: zope + plone works quite well, one thing I know we need is a change-log for it (22:40:03) BobJensen: Night Mr. Henry (22:40:12) stickster: 'night ghenry! (22:40:26) stickster: My personal definition of works, fwiw, is "Can be used to display and export our docs into DocBook without sucking away countless hours of spare time for everyone involved" :-D (22:41:25) elliss: We may need to accept a subset of DocBook for that (22:41:35) BobJensen: Parenting Duty...Back in 10 (22:41:42) elliss: Other stuff isn't as rich (22:42:09) stickster: elliss: A CMS module that reads DocBook out of CVS in order to display it would be the best answer IMHO (22:42:19) elliss: Sure. (22:42:45) stickster: Said module would of course have to keep track of diffs between CMS'ish edits and what's actually in CVS, but that may not be as bad as it sounds (22:42:47) elliss: We just have to accept that and aren't differentiated (22:42:52) elliss: Stuff like that (22:43:12) stickster: Yeah, not differentiated on screen, sure (22:43:44) elliss: Not in markup, because some one has to mark it up... (22:43:49) stickster: The said diffs could be piled up and exported with a button for the author to fit into CVS as needed, dropping the patches from the "todo" list as they're handled (22:44:04) elliss: It's not an issue with raw DocBook editing (22:44:28) stickster: Right... it's only an issue with stuff that people edit directly on the CMS (22:44:34) ghenry left the room (quit: "oops"). (22:44:40) megacoder: Can someone point me to a definitive grammar for the wiki markup? (22:45:53) stickster: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms (22:46:29) megacoder: Is this the _only_ wiki mark-up that is accepted? (22:46:43) stickster: What means "accepted"? :-) (22:47:06) megacoder: How can I make a wiki->db converter without knowing the input grammar? (22:47:39) elliss: megacoder: That's an accepted subset of what MoinMoin allows (22:47:41) stickster: MM will accept whatever is listed in its internal docs... this grammar is the "official" ruleset. (22:47:59) megacoder: And that would be where? (22:48:02) stickster: All stuff on the fp.o wiki should adhere to it, but having said that, of course it probably doesn't. (22:48:11) stickster: megacoder: Help (22:48:20) megacoder: halp? (22:48:31) stickster: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnEditing (22:48:52) stickster: Just another reason to hate wiki-as-canon :-( (22:49:03) stickster: Oh wait, that was my outside voice. ;-D (22:49:28) megacoder: I'd rather have .txt or .html as canononical (22:49:49) megacoder: anything with a formal grammar (22:49:50) stickster: Well that certainly would simplify the tagging process. (22:50:01) stickster: You mean like DocBook? ;-) (22:50:17) stickster: sorry (22:50:34) elliss: MoinMoin also accepts ReStructured Text (22:50:46) megacoder: exacto-pygmalian-ly (22:51:01) elliss: Which is a simpler markup devised for Python help files (22:51:33) stickster: "simpler" == "less useful as a sub for DocBook" (22:51:39) stickster: Heh (22:51:48) ***stickster loves DocBook. (22:51:56) elliss: Everything is less than DocBook (22:52:05) stickster: "Maybe you should just MARRY DocBook then!" (22:52:07) elliss: For good and ill (22:52:08) stickster: :-D (22:52:24) stickster: elliss: true dat (22:52:38) stickster: Once you go DocBook, you never go back (22:52:55) stickster: OK, before I go too far down *THAT* particular road... (22:53:03) elliss: I've almost learned to love Emacs because of it... (22:53:14) stickster: elliss: Shh, don't tell megacoder. (22:53:19) stickster: Oh crap (22:53:23) stickster: Outside voice again (22:53:28) elliss: *almost* (22:53:32) stickster: :-D (22:53:33) megacoder: NOW IF YOU ASK ME (oops) (22:53:39) stickster: LOL (22:54:26) stickster: All right, I'm a big proponent of the 50-minute rule for meetings. Looking down the list at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule, is there anything pressing we need to address? (22:54:54) stickster: AOB: DocGuide, by the way -- Karsten and I have been talking about this already and I imagine we'll do some head-smashing at FUDCon on this issue as time allows (22:55:00) stickster: Anybody else going to FUDCon Boston? (22:56:24) ***quaid notes he has been brainstorming out of band :/ (22:56:38) stickster: Right, we heard the thunder in the distance (22:56:53) stickster: anyone? (22:56:55) stickster: anyone? (22:56:58) stickster: Bueller? (22:57:11) elliss: It's a long to Boston from here :) (22:57:16) elliss: long way (22:57:26) megacoder: too fer north (22:57:48) elliss: Big ocean. Too far to paddle (22:58:10) stickster: All right, AOB? (22:58:22) elliss: Minor. (22:58:32) stickster: by all means... (22:58:45) elliss: I need to do a BPB release of the IG a bit later (22:59:05) elliss: Missing a screen from the Setup Agent that was in the final release (22:59:34) elliss: There's also a updated yum tutorial for FC5 in CVS (22:59:47) stickster: elliss: Right, saw that on list and didn't have a chance yet to publish (22:59:56) stickster: Once CVS is back up this shouldn't be a hassle (23:00:03) elliss: Maybe I ought to grapple with the Web CVS stuff (23:00:20) stickster: I think that's a fine idea (23:00:26) elliss: I keep thinking that it'll all be CMS'd soon (23:00:31) stickster: quaid: Can you facilitate Stuart getting some appropriate access? (23:01:21) stickster: elliss: I have no idea when that's going to happen, but the Infrastructure guys seem to surprise us routinely (23:01:47) stickster: quaid: Or is this something about which you feel comfortable with me inquiring? (23:02:46) stickster: I have the list of uebermenschen, so I can email them if I don't hear back from quaid shortly (23:03:04) elliss: I think I may be member of the "web" group in Accounts - I'll look when I update my SSH keys (23:03:21) stickster: elliss: excellent, just let me know so I or quaid can let the Man know (23:03:47) stickster: elliss: Does that close your AOB? (23:03:52) elliss: Yes. (23:03:59) stickster: All righty, one last thing... (23:04:47) stickster: If anyone has any input for the Fedora Docs talk at FUDCon, feel free to mail the list, me, or quaid. (23:04:51) stickster: That's it from here (23:04:59) stickster: 5... (23:05:01) stickster: 4... (23:05:03) stickster: 3... (23:05:06) stickster: 2... (23:05:08) stickster: 1... (23:05:12) stickster: -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: