From kwade at redhat.com Tue Nov 7 04:49:53 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:49:53 -0800 Subject: agenda 07 Nov FDSCo meeting Message-ID: <1162874993.27328.345.camel@erato.phig.org> Mike -- if you are available, we meet Tuesdays at 1700 PST/0100 UTC on #fedora-docs. There are a few items I want to see what FDSCo can do to help move them. * Elections for FDSCo - Anyone understand FESCo elections and can explain it to us? - or invite a guest to explain - When is a good time for this? - What form should it take? * Trans and Docs work (Hugo, Tommy) - CVS - Processes * Moin Moin update status (Karsten, Mike McG) - 1.5.x, 1.6 * Plone review (Mike McG) - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PloneIssues - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/PloneToDo * Content direction - On list discussion, help it get going - Focus on filling blanks? - Which audiences? - What is not being done that Fedora needs? * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule See you on IRC. ;-) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 8 06:08:49 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:08:49 -0800 Subject: irc log FDSCo 07-Nov-2006 Message-ID: <1162966129.9868.33.camel@erato.phig.org> < quaid> 17:09 < quaid> any of the above we want to move down into here? :D 17:09 < stickster_work> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/PloneToDo 17:10 < stickster_work> Most of the work spent on after-the-upgrade work in FC -- in my experience, slight as that is -- has been user-level stuff for my wife's comfort 17:10 < stickster_work> i.e. standard non-free-ish stuff 17:11 < stickster_work> I would think for a bare server (i.e. no X, etc.) this would not present a big hassle to experienced admins 17:11 < stickster_work> No slight intended, just wondering what the consequences would be of moving to FC 17:11 < stickster_work> I can't really agitate for this though, since it involves other people committing time (where other people != me) 17:12 < stickster_work> Sorry to monologue at the beginning of the meeting 17:12 < quaid> well, it's something to mention/ask from mmcgrath 17:13 < quaid> we can't really let ourselves getted jammed by that. 17:13 < quaid> I mean, what if we want ... a gobby server? 17:13 < stickster_work> Well, if we ever want a scalable publishing system, it pretty much depends on Plone 17:13 < quaid> do we wait until CentOS 5? 17:14 < quaid> we have to wait for the Red Hat Application Stack to be cloned as well before we get PHP and Perl 5? 17:14 < stickster_work> Of course, the further Plone dependency is someone actually doing work on the bits we don't know how to 17:14 < quaid> oh, right, no PHP :D 17:14 < stickster_work> You'll see that often couched behind passive voice and "We need to..." language 17:15 < stickster_work> The hard stuff is... well, hard 17:15 < stickster_work> I wonder whether there's a job need @RH for that part since it probably involves more work than we're likely to get out of already thinly-stretched volunteers 17:16 < stickster_work> exp. req'd in Zope + Plone, Python, CVS, general FOSS methodologies 17:19 < quaid> most likely 17:19 < quaid> let's really bug mspevack and gregdek about that one 17:20 < quaid> like, maybe there are ways we can help them compile the need. 17:26 < quaid> so ... what I'm going to do here tonight is ... 17:26 < quaid> I'm going to visit the agenda and write in whatever status I can do myself 17:26 < quaid> and then I'm going to write any emails and do whatever stuff 17:27 < quaid> then I'll close the meeting and send stuff out 17:27 < quaid> so no decisions, just some status check time 19:00 * quaid got lost in dinner and family stuff 19:01 < quaid> 19:02 < quaid> * Election discussion postponed until next week at earliest 19:02 < quaid> which, uh, weren't about the US elections but the FDSCo elections :) 19:02 < quaid> * Trans/Docs work update - NONE 19:03 < quaid> * Moin Moin update status - engaged with Moin devel team about upgrading and getting SoC code in trunk 19:03 < quaid> waiting on mvirkkil's response (iirc) and we have stuff to do from Thomas Waldmann 19:23 < StylusEater> allo 19:28 < quaid> ola * quaid continues with his notes 20:46 < quaid> -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 15 00:51:04 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:51:04 -0800 Subject: agenda 14-Nov-2006 Message-ID: <1163551864.3205.217.camel@erato.phig.org> Let's reprise our untouched items from last week ... so this agenda is mainly the same. :) * Elections for FDSCo - Anyone understand FESCo elections and can explain it to us? - or invite a guest to explain - When is a good time for this? - What form should it take? * Trans and Docs work (Hugo, Tommy) - CVS - Processes * Moin Moin update status (Karsten, Mike McG) - 1.5.x, 1.6 * Plone review (Mike McG) - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PloneIssues - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/PloneToDo * Content direction - On list discussion, help it get going - Focus on filling blanks? - Which audiences? - What is not being done that Fedora needs? * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Nov 15 13:17:08 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:17:08 -0500 Subject: Meeting schedule Message-ID: <1163596628.9711.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Obviously our time change hasn't helped as we planned. Leaving it at the new time seems like a non-option, since we keep having meetings disturbed by other priorities. (I point the finger firmly at me first, seeing as how I've missed something like three out of the last five, IIRC.) Shall we consider either (1) moving back to the old time (yuck), or (2) choosing a new and better time? I'll even start the ball rolling with some suggestions (note Eastern is now UTC -5): Wednesday, 0300 UTC (that's Tuesday 10:00pm Eastern, 7:00pm Pacific) Saturday, 0100 UTC (that's Friday 8:00pm Eastern, 5:00pm Pacific) * Some other time that works out to a Saturday morning or Sunday afternoon for me :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 15 23:41:42 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:41:42 -0800 Subject: Meeting schedule In-Reply-To: <1163596628.9711.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1163596628.9711.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1163634102.3205.288.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-11-15 at 08:17 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Obviously our time change hasn't helped as we planned. Leaving it at > the new time seems like a non-option, since we keep having meetings > disturbed by other priorities. (I point the finger firmly at me first, > seeing as how I've missed something like three out of the last five, > IIRC.) And I'll point at how easily I'm distracted during that time. :) > Shall we consider either (1) moving back to the old time (yuck), or (2) > choosing a new and better time? I'll even start the ball rolling with > some suggestions (note Eastern is now UTC -5): > > Wednesday, 0300 UTC (that's Tuesday 10:00pm Eastern, 7:00pm Pacific) > Saturday, 0100 UTC (that's Friday 8:00pm Eastern, 5:00pm Pacific) Man, you know you are getting older and more settled when you'd consider a regular meeting for a Friday night. :) I like trying to keep to the same day, as long as it doesn't wash out for some other reason. Later in that day may work better for me. I'd be willing to try the 0300 UTC Wed. one. Other ideas? > * Some other time that works out to a Saturday morning or Sunday > afternoon for me :-) I'm not allowed to be caught at the computer for more than a few minutes during precious honey-do daylight hours on the weekends. :) It does happen occasionally, but I couldn't make any promises. - Karsten, who will compare honey-do lists anyday -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Nov 16 00:44:26 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:44:26 -0500 Subject: Meeting schedule In-Reply-To: <1163634102.3205.288.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1163596628.9711.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1163634102.3205.288.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1163637866.15061.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-11-15 at 15:41 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2006-11-15 at 08:17 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Obviously our time change hasn't helped as we planned. Leaving it at > > the new time seems like a non-option, since we keep having meetings > > disturbed by other priorities. (I point the finger firmly at me first, > > seeing as how I've missed something like three out of the last five, > > IIRC.) > > And I'll point at how easily I'm distracted during that time. :) > > > Shall we consider either (1) moving back to the old time (yuck), or (2) > > choosing a new and better time? I'll even start the ball rolling with > > some suggestions (note Eastern is now UTC -5): > > > > Wednesday, 0300 UTC (that's Tuesday 10:00pm Eastern, 7:00pm Pacific) > > Saturday, 0100 UTC (that's Friday 8:00pm Eastern, 5:00pm Pacific) > > Man, you know you are getting older and more settled when you'd consider > a regular meeting for a Friday night. :) Yup, guilty as charged. On the other hand, my bar tab is a lot cheaper these days. > I like trying to keep to the same day, as long as it doesn't wash out > for some other reason. Later in that day may work better for me. I'd > be willing to try the 0300 UTC Wed. one. That's sorta my favored time; I agree about keeping it on Tuesday night as well. If we're lucky we might pick up folks in Europe checking in over morning $BEVERAGE. > I'm not allowed to be caught at the computer for more than a few minutes > during precious honey-do daylight hours on the weekends. :) It does > happen occasionally, but I couldn't make any promises. Understood and agreed. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Nov 21 20:53:07 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:53:07 -0800 Subject: agenda for FDSCo meeting 21-Nov-2007 Message-ID: <1164142387.15617.250.camel@erato.phig.org> Really just a reprise of last week, which was a reprise of the week before. :) * Elections for FDSCo - Anyone understand FESCo elections and can explain it to us? - or invite a guest to explain - When is a good time for this? - What form should it take? * Trans and Docs work (Hugo, Tommy) - CVS - Processes * FI check-in - Moin Moin update - Early Plone testing? * Content direction - On list discussion, help it get going - Focus on filling blanks? - Which audiences? - What is not being done that Fedora needs? * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Nov 21 21:00:05 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:00:05 -0800 Subject: agenda for FDSCo meeting 21-Nov-2007 In-Reply-To: <1164142387.15617.250.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1164142387.15617.250.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1164142805.15617.257.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-11-21 at 12:53 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > Really just a reprise of last week, which was a reprise of the week > before. :) + Decide if we are going to move the meeting up to 0300 UTC/2200 EST/1900 PST on Tuesdays. > * Elections for FDSCo > - Anyone understand FESCo elections and can explain it to us? > - or invite a guest to explain > - When is a good time for this? > - What form should it take? > * Trans and Docs work (Hugo, Tommy) > - CVS > - Processes > * FI check-in > - Moin Moin update > - Early Plone testing? > * Content direction > - On list discussion, help it get going > - Focus on filling blanks? > - Which audiences? > - What is not being done that Fedora needs? > * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule > > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Nov 21 22:15:17 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:15:17 -0800 Subject: new time experiment Message-ID: <1164147317.15617.290.camel@erato.phig.org> Today I am going to try out a new experiment in open collaboration meetings. The meeting is going to be open () for three hours, with the first and last hour as "drop-in/drop-off" times where we can expect discussion is going to happen. At the drop-off time is when I'll post an IRC log to this list so people who drop-in next have a chance to catch up with the agenda. At each drop-in point we can review the agenda so far for input from those absent. Thus: Time Drop-In Drop-Off Other ------------------------------------------------------------- 0100 UTC ++ -- 2000 EST 1700 PST ------------------------------------------------------------- 0200 UTC -- ++ ------------------------------------------------------------- 0300 UTC ++ -- ------------------------------------------------------------- 0400 UTC -- ++ - Karsten, just making stuff up at this point ;-) -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 22 04:03:40 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:03:40 -0800 Subject: IRC log of FDSCo meeting 21-Nov-2006 Message-ID: <1164168220.15617.303.camel@erato.phig.org> 17:03 < quaid> 17:03 < quaid> * Elections for FDSCo 17:03 < quaid> - Anyone understand FESCo elections and can explain it to us? 17:03 < quaid> - or invite a guest to explain 17:03 < quaid> - When is a good time for this? 17:03 < quaid> - What form should it take? 17:03 < quaid> * Trans and Docs work (Hugo, Tommy) 17:03 < quaid> - CVS 17:03 < quaid> - Processes 17:03 < quaid> * FI check-in 17:03 < quaid> - Moin Moin update 17:03 < quaid> - Early Plone testing? 17:03 < quaid> * Content direction 17:03 < quaid> - On list discussion, help it get going 17:03 < quaid> - Focus on filling blanks? 17:03 < quaid> - Which audiences? 17:03 < quaid> - What is not being done that Fedora needs? 17:03 < quaid> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule 17:04 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule 17:07 < quaid> so who is around? 17:08 < BobJensen> Hey 17:11 < quaid> oi 17:16 < BobJensen> can't seem to get my thin client to connect to the host, quite frustrating 17:19 < BobJensen> I wonder if I installed the wrong client 17:23 * quaid is doing his usual dinner cooking thing 17:29 < quaid> mmcgrath: when you've got a few moments, can you refresh me on the i18n.r.c situation (CVS and Web apps)? 17:33 < quaid> 'cus Hugo and Tommy aren't around 17:38 < quaid> well, I'm going to work on the DUG stuff, now that I can spare a few hours from $JOB 17:39 < BobJensen> quaid: OK if anyone shows ping me, I am going to be a bit AFK trying to troubleshoot this darn thin client 17:40 -!- EvilBob [n=BobJense at fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen] has joined #Fedora-Docs 17:42 < quaid> is anyone around here who understands FE elections? 17:54 < quaid> |DrJef|, f13: who might we tap (in the next few hours) to tell us a bit about how FE elections work? 17:54 < quaid> mmcgrath: another question, is there somewhere or somehow we can get a view into how various docs parts are doing Web-traffic-wise? 17:55 < quaid> e.g. fp.o/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide 17:55 < EvilBob> I don't even know who is on FESCo at ths time. maybe dennis Gilmore is around and would know? 17:56 < |DrJef|> quaid, i think you have me confused with someone who knows things 17:56 < quaid> oh, sorry 17:56 < quaid> must be the | in front of your name 17:57 < EvilBob> |DrJef|: admit nothing and deny everything right? 17:57 < |DrJef|> EvilBob, i deny that logic 17:57 < EvilBob> quaid: see he proves my point 17:57 < EvilBob> LOL 17:58 < |DrJef|> EvilBob, im definitely not serving in any committee role at the moment 17:58 < EvilBob> |DrJef|: Oh I know 18:06 * quaid shall have to poke around on #f-e 18:07 < EvilBob> I would ask dennis but then he would ask me when I am going to start submitting packages... so many things so little time... 18:08 < mmcgrath> quaid: I actually don't know anything about the i18n stuff. Just that we can move it if we want to 18:08 < mmcgrath> and regarding doc web traffic, doc's on f.r.c I'm not sure about, we'd have to talk to stacy. 18:08 < mmcgrath> I think the general push is to move away from f.r.c 18:09 < quaid> mmcgrath: I'm thinking of docs on fp.o 18:10 < quaid> mmcgrath: about the i18n stuff, we'd like to get it on the FI schedule, and Tommy is available to help, and so are some of the rest of us 18:15 < mmcgrath> quaid: what sort of traffic you interested in? 18:15 < mmcgrath> we have http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/ 18:15 < mmcgrath> but its not very specific. 18:24 < quaid> mmcgrath: for example, there are all the links from the /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html 18:25 -!- Melio [n=melio at adsl-153-36-227.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #fedora-docs 18:25 < mmcgrath> ahh, yeah we can get that. 18:25 < Melio> greets 18:26 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/fedoraproject.org/11-06/awstats.fedoraproject.org.urldetail.html 18:26 < mmcgrath> http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/fedoraproject.org/10-06/awstats.fedoraproject.org.urldetail.html 18:26 < mmcgrath> heh, beat me too it 18:26 < quaid> sweet 18:27 < f13> quaid: thl perhaps. i didn't pay attention to the FESCo elections. 18:27 < mmcgrath> f13: wrong channel? 18:28 < mmcgrath> I've always found the search keywords interesting 18:28 < Melio> I bet the wiki-graphics are being viewed alot cause they're sublinked thru pages like www.fedorasolved.org and fedora-unity.net 18:31 < quaid> f13 was replying to my question about FESCo elections 18:31 < mmcgrath> ohhhhhhh 18:39 < quaid> looks like the DesktopUserGuide/Communications page is popular 18:39 < quaid> helps with IM and Evolution setup :) 18:41 < quaid> f13: btw, what package has the Fedora splash that we see when the desktop is loading? 18:41 < mmcgrath> :) 18:45 < f13> quaid: the graphical boot, or the gnome splash? 18:47 < quaid> hmm, gnome splash I reckon 18:47 < quaid> it has the (c) copyright on it 18:47 < quaid> says "Copyright (c) 2006 Red Hat Inc." 18:47 < quaid> it should say "Copyright (C) 2006 Red Hat Inc. and others" 18:47 * quaid is prepared to file a bug 18:48 < quaid> I just noticed that Mugshot has it the right way and it reminded me to fix it :) 18:48 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 18:48 * stickster had an awesome LUG meeting tonight 18:49 < stickster> Must catch up on buffer... 18:49 < f13> hrm, probably fedora-logos ? 18:52 < f13> quaid: $ rpm -qf /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/gnome-splash.png 18:52 < f13> fedora-logos-6.0.6-1.fc6 18:54 < mmcgrath> stickster: people have awesome LUG meetings? 18:55 < mmcgrath> Last lug I went to they discussed how to get WoW running. I was like... Totally not what I'm using Linux for. 18:55 * mmcgrath wishes for better lugs in the midwest 18:56 < stickster> Nope, everyone at this meeting -- and granted, not a large number -- use it for real work 18:56 < stickster> A couple developers, couple Asterisk guys, one doing security/forensics 18:56 < stickster> And me 18:56 < stickster> We had a couple no-shows, but they sent apologies on list 18:57 < quaid> f13: thanks :) 18:57 < EvilBob> mmcgrath: my LUG has mostly "real world" topics, we do however have a couple LAN parties a year to help pull in the windows users 18:57 < stickster> We're going to spend the next few weeks advertising heavily and gathering membership 18:58 < quaid> mmcgrath: bummer to hear, I had this theory that the colder the winters, the bigger the LUGs 18:58 < quaid> but I'm probably way off 18:58 < mmcgrath> :) 18:58 < EvilBob> quaid: my LUG nearly has to take the summer off but we end up with 6 'meetings' a month with 10-25 people in the winter 18:59 < EvilBob> Lunch on thursdays every week, the first tuesday night is dinner and the third saturday is a topic 19:00 < f13> the lugs I went to were either a bunch of old guys who never get it, or a hour of arguing over politics surrounding the lug. 19:00 < f13> A bunch of us got so fed up we formed our own "underlug" that was the smart people hwo liked to chat about Linux stuff, go for beer, get together for good food, etc... 19:01 < f13> ugh, vte seems to have gone nuts again. 19:02 < quaid> yeah, Santa Cruz has this high couch veg factor 19:02 < quaid> literally no one ever commits, leaving the door open for just not doing anything 19:03 < quaid> "Yeah, I might be there, sounds great!" 19:07 < stickster> I think everybody so far has been really enthusiastic 19:08 < stickster> The key is going to be quickly turning momentum into membership which always helps keep everyone interetsed 19:08 < stickster> I think I was elected "benevolent dictator" 19:08 < EvilBob> lol 19:08 < stickster> I brought a projector, y'know 19:08 < stickster> (and gave out schwag) ;-) 19:09 * f13 reads about twilight princess and jonses. 19:09 < quaid> moo? 19:09 < stickster> moof! 19:09 < f13> quaid: new zelda for the Wii 19:09 < quaid> ah 19:11 < stickster> quaid: I've started trying to learn something about Zope + Plone 19:11 < quaid> ooh 19:11 < quaid> good idea 19:11 < stickster> Unfortunately, the !&#*@$ Fedora Extras package doesn't &*#%$@ work! 19:11 < EvilBob> quaid: have you seen our sites since the crash? 19:12 < stickster> EvilBob: Ooo, tasty!!! 19:12 < EvilBob> stickster: I think we have packages for you if you want 19:12 < stickster> There's a problem with the Five component as it exists in FE's Z/P 19:12 < stickster> That's a real shame 19:13 < stickster> EvilBob: Yes please, I'm trying hard to learn 19:13 < EvilBob> stickster: damaestro is taking over maintainership 19:13 < quaid> damaestro++ 19:13 < EvilBob> stickster: this is the third time we have had to drift from extras because of breakage 19:14 < quaid> ah 19:14 < quaid> stuff to swipe 19:14 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Policy/FESCoElections 19:14 < stickster> I'm having a tough time believing the original maintainer knew the package 19:14 < quaid> I think I'll shamelelessy steal from that page 19:15 < EvilBob> stickster: so as a result Jon knows how to fix the bits, the original maintainer is sponsoring him in order to fast track things 19:15 < stickster> EvilBob: sweet 19:16 < stickster> EvilBob: can I find his working packages somewhere? 19:17 < EvilBob> stickster: checking on that now 19:17 < stickster> thanks 19:17 -!- daMaestro [n=jon at fedora/damaestro] has joined #fedora-docs 19:18 < EvilBob> speak of the cheeky little devil 19:18 < EvilBob> hehehe 19:18 < daMaestro> lol 19:18 < daMaestro> ouch 19:18 < EvilBob> Paul this is Jon, Jon this is Paul... communicate 19:18 < EvilBob> LOL 19:19 < stickster> We've met :-D 19:19 < stickster> Jon, EvilBob says you have working Z/P packages for Fedora... the Extras copies won't let me add a Plone site 19:19 < stickster> Something about Five being improperly installed 19:19 < daMaestro> stickster, yup 19:19 < daMaestro> stickster, fun right? 19:19 < daMaestro> lol 19:20 < stickster> Yeah, I gave up after a couple hours of trying to figure it out 19:20 < daMaestro> stickster, it is because plone 2.5.1 needs five 1.3.7 and in the old packages (2.5) zope needed to provide 1.3.6 19:20 < stickster> They have 1.3.8 now, yes? 19:20 < daMaestro> yes, but i think 1.3.7 is the recommended version to use with zope 2.9.4 19:21 < stickster> So can you help a brotha out? 19:21 < daMaestro> i expect zope 2.9.5 is what includes five 1.3.8 19:21 < EvilBob> quaid: I am going to have to check out for the night, I can't get the thin client working, I need to get some rest so i can take it on in the AM 19:21 -!- BobJensen is now known as BobJensen-Away 19:23 < stickster> Hmm, FE's Zope Provides is... intereseting 19:23 < stickster> I can't seem to spell interestting tonight 19:24 < daMaestro> stickster, do you have access to extras? 19:24 < stickster> Yup 19:24 < daMaestro> would you check if i have access to zope and plone 19:24 < quaid> EvilBob: roger that 19:24 < daMaestro> i was supposed to be given access 19:25 < daMaestro> user: jsteffan 19:25 < quaid> stickster: is there anything from the agenda you want to discuss tonight? 19:25 < quaid> I am working on the elections proposal first draft stolen from FESCo 19:25 < daMaestro> stickster, i need to get the extras packages fixed 19:27 < stickster> daMaestro: I think so 19:27 < stickster> I show you in group cvsextras as "user" 19:27 < daMaestro> stickster, ok.. yeah.. i know that was granted 19:27 < daMaestro> is that all i need? 19:28 < stickster> I don't think Extras is ACL'd 19:28 < stickster> You're just expected to stay in your sandbox most of the time 19:28 < daMaestro> ok, do you mind if i push the fix to extras? 19:28 < daMaestro> i just need to do a quick spec file fix and bump the version 19:29 < stickster> daMaestro: Have you already been in touch with the new maintainer? I know the original one (Aurelien?) had to give it up 19:29 < daMaestro> i am the new maintainer :-P 19:29 < stickster> Well then, since you're fixing at least two bugs filed already, *and* I'm going to benefit from it directly, I would say you should go ahead ;-) 19:30 < daMaestro> hmm.. how do get zope and plone assigned to send me mail when bugs are filed? 19:30 < daMaestro> one of the bugs was reported by me.. 19:30 < stickster> daMaestro: Edit the owners/owners.list file 19:30 < stickster> You should go through the steps for unorphaning a package, probably on wiki as well 19:30 < daMaestro> i need to setup a new imap account.. gmail just doesn't work for the extras mailing list 19:30 < stickster> Hmm 19:30 * stickster searches for URL 19:31 < daMaestro> stickster, thanks 19:31 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/OrphanedPackages 19:32 < stickster> daMaestro: Bless you, my son, bless you 19:32 < stickster> daMaestro: Once you get the fixes committed, let me know.. 19:32 < daMaestro> will do 19:32 < daMaestro> i'm still learning.. 19:32 < stickster> Looks like it should only take a few minutes and you'll be ready to go 19:33 < daMaestro> so i hope everything is well documented on the wiki 19:33 < daMaestro> well do i use plague? 19:33 < daMaestro> i have that all setup.. 19:33 < stickster> daMaestro: Yes, you should install both plague-client and mock19:33 < daMaestro> yup.. those are installed 19:33 < daMaestro> and i have plague client configured 19:34 < daMaestro> i expect i have to do something like a cvs checkout and then make changes and check it back in? 19:34 < daMaestro> then use plague to do the build? 19:34 < stickster> daMaestro: Before you send it to the builders, it's a good idea to do "make mockbuild" 19:35 < stickster> And by good idea, I mean, "requirement" 19:35 < stickster> :-D 19:35 < stickster> You'll want to check out the "MockTricks" page for setting up a proxy if you haven't already 19:35 < daMaestro> yeah.. i 19:35 < stickster> Unless you have a local mirror with FC/FE yum repos, which kind of eliminates the need for that 19:36 < daMaestro> i'm* going to spend some money and setup a local mirror 19:36 < daMaestro> but i was going to do that when i replaced my desktop 19:36 < daMaestro> i can also use the fedora unity builders 19:37 < stickster> If you have a few gigs of free disk space you can use for /var/cache/squid (or wherever), you can use Squid to alleviate the need for a whole mirror 19:37 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/MockTricks 19:37 < daMaestro> i'm going to go with a full mirror for other reasons 19:38 < daMaestro> *-Spins and usb live/stateless images 19:38 < stickster> *nod 19:38 < daMaestro> i'm working on a thin client 19:38 < stickster> k 19:38 < daMaestro> *designing the hardware :-) 19:38 < daMaestro> basically a fedora based blackberry 19:38 < daMaestro> that has *removable* images 19:41 < stickster> All right, I will probably just look for the commits and build logs tomorrow then 19:41 < stickster> daMaestro: See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Contributors for more info 19:41 < daMaestro> ok 19:41 < daMaestro> sorry. 19:41 < daMaestro> do you want to just build the packages on your own? 19:41 < stickster> daMaestro: Oh no, nothing to be sorry about 19:42 < daMaestro> i've got them somewhere on one of our servers 19:42 < daMaestro> or at least should 19:42 < stickster> daMaestro: That's what I was hoping for at first, but that was before I found out you were now maintaining them 19:42 < stickster> daMaestro: I'm actually kind of beat, and I have to get up early to work out 19:42 < daMaestro> ok.. i'll try to learn how to push the updates tonight 19:42 < stickster> daMaestro: If you're set to do your thing, I'll just look for them in Extras shortly 19:43 < daMaestro> as long as the wiki has me covered.. i'll get it done 19:43 < stickster> daMaestro: I can stay up for a half hour or so without a problem to walk you through 19:43 < stickster> daMaestro: Sorry, I just densely realized that this whole thing means that (duh!) you're doing this for the first time with FE 19:43 < daMaestro> if not an emergency, i'm going to put it off for at least that long 19:43 < stickster> Oh 19:43 < stickster> OK 19:44 < stickster> I'm looking for the better page 19:44 < daMaestro> awesome 19:44 < daMaestro> i have a few things in tomboy notes 19:44 < stickster> Aha! 19:44 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/UsingCvsFaq 19:44 < daMaestro> i just have been stupid busy with other things (like real work.. lol) 19:44 < stickster> I heard that, yo 19:45 < quaid> sweet, just solidified plans with friends to go to Casino Royale in three hours 19:45 < stickster> quaid: I now officially hate you 19:45 < stickster> :-D I really want to see that movie 19:46 * stickster used to see 1-2 films a week with wife before kids, now closer to, uh, 0 19:46 < stickster> Thank heaven for HD-DLP + DVD 19:46 < stickster> Oh yeah, + new DTS/DD amp! 19:47 < stickster> daMaestro: OK... I will be around tomorrow during the day, off and on... I maintain a handful of packages, so it can't be *that* hard :-D 19:47 < daMaestro> ok 19:47 < daMaestro> thanks 19:47 < stickster> 'night all 19:47 < daMaestro> i should be able to get it done tonight 19:48 < daMaestro> i am just ordering new hardware for my search system 19:48 < daMaestro> stickster, night 19:48 < stickster> Cool, I am reading the Zope book now and took the tutorial 19:48 < daMaestro> ahh cool 19:48 -!- rajesh [n=rranjan at 202.41.228.162] has joined #fedora-docs 19:48 < daMaestro> i just stared at the zmi for long periods of time 19:48 < daMaestro> it melted in 19:48 < stickster> If I can finish the ZB, next is the Plone Book 19:48 < daMaestro> it would be good for docs to know what plone and zope can do 19:48 < stickster> Being able to actually _install_ the Plone component would rock, though :-D 19:49 < daMaestro> i'm not always clear on what i am doing and how i did it 19:49 < stickster> daMaestro: Oh, don't get confused, just because I am trying to learn it doesn't mean we'll know anything about it :-D 19:49 < daMaestro> oh, darn 19:49 < daMaestro> lol 19:49 < stickster> But I intend to try 19:49 < daMaestro> awesome 19:50 < daMaestro> it is not fun to manage stuff alone.. and it is always better if the people that are going to use it know what they want.. or at least have an idea 19:50 < stickster> I'm hoping this, plus your tutelage once in a while, plus the show'n'tell you gave us, may make me as effective as your average eight-year-old 19:50 < daMaestro> i setup zwiki pages and no one has even touched them 19:50 < daMaestro> 'cept bob and i making fun of wiki formatting 19:50 < daMaestro> lol 19:52 < BobJensen-Away> and that ass ugly icon 19:52 < BobJensen-Away> LOL 19:53 < stickster> Well, I can now look at the ZMI on fpserv and I'm not completely lost 19:53 < stickster> But I will be doing all my learning on my own local test instance 19:53 < daMaestro> yeah.. i have an account on fpserv.. but.. umm.. i gave up on plone 2.1 19:53 < stickster> Just being able to navigate a working site and compare its functions to its setup will help me understand how it works better, methinks 19:53 < daMaestro> lol 19:54 < daMaestro> it is always fun to just trash a plone site 19:54 -!- EvilBob [n=BobJense at fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:57 < stickster> OK, that's it for me 19:57 * stickster falls over dead..... asleep, that is 19:57 < quaid> ok 19:57 < stickster> g'night all 19:57 < quaid> I'm going to close the meeting and tag the log and bag it 19:57 < quaid> -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Nov 28 23:53:56 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:53:56 -0800 Subject: agenda and plan for another long FDSCo meeting Message-ID: <1164758037.2584.330.camel@erato.phig.org> I liked last week so much I'm going to try it again. We'll meet continuously from 0100 UTC to 0345 UTC, with the first hour and last forty-five minutes being focused discussion times. I'm calling the 0345 because I needed that 15 minutes last week. :) Agenda ------ * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule * Trans and Docs work (Hugo, Tommy) - CVS - Processes * FI check-in - Moin Moin update - Early Plone testing? * FLOSS Docs Summit - Open discussion * AOB -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Nov 30 06:43:25 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:43:25 -0800 Subject: irc log for FDSCo meeting 28-Nov-2006 Message-ID: <1164869005.2584.398.camel@erato.phig.org> I did some clean-up of joins/leaves, otherwise pristine as usual. 17:08 < quaid> 17:09 < quaid> glezos: test wiki, I didn't get clear from paulobanon if he wanted us to abuse it yet, esp. since we have read-only I guess 17:10 < glezos> quaid, just asking to see the official logo stickster suggested. 17:10 < stickster> So, notice to all who have URL, keep it to yourselves 17:10 * stickster let cat out of bag 17:13 < BobJensen> Hi Guys 17:13 < BobJensen> Sorry I'm late 17:13 < quaid> no worries 17:13 < quaid> I had to start the feast 17:14 < BobJensen> K 17:14 < stickster> OK then 17:15 < stickster> Who is owning the release notes? And will there in fact be an update? 17:15 < BobJensen> I will not be here next week as per my scheduled conflict 17:15 < stickster> Is there anything *to* update? New translations? 17:15 < quaid> and 17:15 < quaid> I haven't dug through i18n to see if there are finished translations 17:16 < quaid> but several major languages are incomplete 17:16 < quaid> and I think that sucks 17:16 < quaid> (in a generic suckage way) 17:16 < stickster> +1 17:16 < BobJensen> stickster: I was just looking at that over the holiday weekend, I think we should target an update for a couple weeks away, there are some bug items and other things I think we could add and address 17:17 < BobJensen> the i586/i686 bug is one 17:17 < |DrJef|> hey i have a question, where would i start looking for current state of localization for Alaskan native languages? Specifically Yup'ik and Inupiaq 17:17 < stickster> That bug's growing whiskers 17:18 < stickster> Now that we've had almost 500K downloads or whatever 17:18 < glezos> |DrJef|, http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status 17:18 < quaid> |DrJef|: http://i18n.redhat.com 17:18 < quaid> yeah, there 17:18 < BobJensen> stickster: it is relevent for those that install from the released ISOs 17:18 < stickster> Yeah, very much so 17:18 < stickster> So yes, a couple of weeks then 17:19 < stickster> Can we set a target date of 12/12? 17:19 < |DrJef|> mucho gracias 17:19 < BobJensen> On that same bug I am going to b doing some testing for nasrat this week to see if the bug is fixes 17:19 < BobJensen> fixed 17:19 < stickster> Yeah, I was under the impression there was an anaconda update that addressed it 17:19 * quaid looks at calendar 17:20 < quaid> we can do 12/12 if we can make it clear that we are open for more translations and be sure we can get PO back out 17:20 < quaid> stickster: you have those perms now? 17:20 < |DrJef|> i see Inupiaq listed by not Yup'ik 17:20 < stickster> Uhm... I think so 17:20 < quaid> ok, let's proceed then 17:21 < quaid> I'll send email right now to f-trans-l saying we are going to do a package update for updated/completed translations 17:21 < quaid> 12/10 due date for getting it all done 17:21 < |DrJef|> quaid, not to get in the way of what you are working on... but what do you think the chances are of getting Google SoC project to start a translation for Inupiaq? 17:21 < stickster> quaid: Maybe hold off until the beat update is done 17:21 < BobJensen> can we target the 11th going to trans and publish on the 19th? 17:21 < stickster> quaid: Isn't there material to add on the wiki and then convert? 17:22 < quaid> |DrJef|: probably need an Inupiaq translator person(s) to propose it 17:22 < |DrJef|> quaid, i could probably line up someone at the University who would be willing to do the work 17:22 < stickster> I think we want to try for 10 days to trans 17:22 < |DrJef|> quaid, there are students who study native languages as degree minors 17:22 < quaid> |DrJef|: I'm working with some others on proposing a Summer of Content, with content focused on supporting FLOSS project adoption 17:22 < BobJensen> stickster: true 17:22 < stickster> I think that was our goal last time though this process 17:22 < quaid> |DrJef|: sounds like a good fit 17:23 < |DrJef|> quaid, if i found a student looking for summer work to start such a translation project, could Fedora be the mentoring entity? 17:23 < quaid> our goal was on updating content, then getting all trans up to date? 17:23 < quaid> |DrJef|: interesting idea, as we are a conduit to all the upstreams for translation, right? 17:23 < BobJensen> stickster: How about to trans on the 12th and publish the 22nd or the weekend? 17:23 < |DrJef|> quaid, i might also see if OLPC could be a mentoring entity, since im specifically interested in laying the groundwork for OLPC deployment in AK 17:23 < quaid> or do translators go directly through e.g. GNOME? 17:23 < |DrJef|> quaid, i dont know whats best 17:23 < stickster> BobJensen: I think pushing that close to the holidays is a Really Bad Idea 17:24 < BobJensen> Oh shoot you are right 17:24 < stickster> BobJensen: Does your schedule preclude getting the beats updated by, say, this weekend? 17:24 < |DrJef|> quaid, i'm just trying to act as a facilitator in my new...country 17:24 < BobJensen> stickster: sadly yes 17:24 < BobJensen> stickster: I can do Friday the 8th 17:24 < quaid> |DrJef|: word ... 17:25 < stickster> OK, I think that may work out better 17:25 < |DrJef|> quaid, SoC is pretty low hanging fruit for funding 17:25 < quaid> glezos: does GNOME trans come down from GNOME? do we have a way to push trans of GNOME from Fedora into GNOME? 17:25 < BobJensen> that will give trans a full work week and two weekends 17:25 < stickster> I can get the stuff out to trans on the 9th, and then we ask for return by the 19th, I'll publish ASAP 17:25 < quaid> |DrJef|: I do think translations fit in the new Summer of Content idea, but I don't know where that is going to go 17:25 < stickster> s/on the 9th/by the 9th/ 17:25 < quaid> ok, more time for trans is key 17:26 < stickster> 10 days now 17:26 < BobJensen> stickster: I would love to be part of the publish process if we can make it happen 17:26 < quaid> we're coming from no where, so almost 2x the normal would be good 17:26 < glezos> quaid, I didn't understand the Q, sorry. 17:26 < stickster> BobJensen: Oops, you will be... I won't be available the 19th 17:26 < glezos> quaid, translation of GNOME is done from its own CVS, it's own team. 17:26 < quaid> glezos: Fedora is a downstream user of translations that come from e.g. GNOME, KDE, etc. right? 17:26 * stickster checks his schedule again 17:26 < glezos> quaid, yes, AFAIK 17:26 < |DrJef|> quaid, there are like dozen of languages up here, Yu'pik isnt even listed in the translation list of possible translation... 17:27 < quaid> glezos: do you know if we have a way to push translations back upstream from within Fedora? Or do translators who want to trans e.g. GNOME go to gnome.org? 17:27 < stickster> quaid: latter is the way 17:27 < glezos> quaid, the second. 17:27 < BobJensen> stickster: if we can work it out so i can work with you to be a part of the publish process when ever we have to do it before christmas I am fine with 17:27 < stickster> glezos: jinx :-) 17:27 < quaid> |DrJef|: that seems like the major barrier is that a lot of the trans is upstream 17:28 < stickster> BobJensen: The key is that you need access to write to the web module 17:28 < BobJensen> stickster: IIRC I have that 17:28 < stickster> BobJensen: bitchin 17:28 < stickster> Then you will find it very simple 17:28 < glezos> quaid, Ubuntu tries to do some downstream translations through Rosetta.. but it's very very bad and translators hate it 17:28 < quaid> |DrJef|: we could certainly mentor for Fedora needs; there was also a multi-mentor proposal to make it easier to cross-connect students into multiple projects. 17:28 < BobJensen> stickster: unless things have changed 17:28 < stickster> BobJensen: At worst you may have to write a few lines of HTML to update "index" pages with manually-created tables 17:29 < stickster> the rest of it is a very easy process 17:29 < BobJensen> stickster: I know I pushed to the web for FC5's release and did *something* wrong but I did have the needed access 17:29 < quaid> also package update 17:29 < |DrJef|> quaid, obviously gnome is the next logical step.... just getting a translation for one of the bigger languages up here started that impacts OLPC would be good enough i would think 17:29 < stickster> quaid: Yup 17:29 < BobJensen> stickster: our "fedora-release-notes" package should also be updated 17:30 < stickster> That's easy, I'll let f13 know once the translations are back in 17:30 < BobJensen> OK 17:30 < quaid> |DrJef|: right, if OLPC translation is the point, they might be a better mentor, as they are connected to all their own key projects 17:30 < stickster> quaid + BobJensen jinx 17:30 < BobJensen> stickster: yup 17:30 < quaid> where I wouldn' tknow what to do for e.g. AbiWord :) 17:30 < glezos> stickster, any progress on separating fedora-release-notes and fedora-browser-splash po files? 17:30 * stickster reminds quaid and BobJensen about the tagging thing 17:31 < quaid> we need to branch? 17:31 < stickster> XML has to be retagged to match original release to prevent translator pain 17:31 < quaid> um 17:31 < stickster> Thanks wiki! 17:31 < quaid> can we just add the changes in by hand? 17:31 < |DrJef|> quaid, indeed, if I'm clever enough I can sucker native language translators into localization workshop sessions hosted by the University LUG 17:31 < quaid> v. regenerating the XML? 17:31 < stickster> Absosmurfly 17:31 < quaid> ok, let's do that 17:31 < glezos> |DrJef|, are you sure this is the best time to talk about this? :) 17:31 < quaid> tasks then are: 17:31 < stickster> In fact, I think we tagged pages in the wiki for release, so it should be easy to diff the changes right there 17:31 < |DrJef|> glezos, no its not.... 17:32 < quaid> BobJensen: can you find all the content that has changed in the Wiki so we can fix it in the XML? 17:32 < |DrJef|> glezos, ill get out of your way now 17:32 < quaid> plus any new stuff we need to add 17:32 < BobJensen> quaid: I think so 17:32 < quaid> BobJensen: then I can help convert that into XML manually, to minimize the XML diff for translators 17:33 < quaid> and we hand that off to stickster for packaging 17:33 < quaid> and BobJensen and I can work out the Web publish on f.r.c 17:33 < quaid> ok? 17:33 < BobJensen> quaid: sure 17:34 < stickster> +1 17:34 < glezos> |DrJef|, chill. Just suggesting (with a smile) to talk about it in a few minutes.. 17:35 < glezos> quaid, if I can help with the publish, let me know 17:35 < stickster> Just until 17:37 < stickster> And everything goes silent... :-D 17:37 < glezos> stickster, did you miss my Q about the separation of po files or was that on purpose? :D 17:38 < BobJensen> OK between now and the 6th I will work on the Wiki content, work with quaid to get the xml to stickster by the 8th for him to send to trans, back from trans the 18th and we wrap it up 17:38 < stickster> ? 17:38 < |DrJef|> glezos, don't worry, i'm not miffed its obvious your getting work done 17:38 < stickster> Oh 17:38 < stickster> sorry! 17:38 < stickster> glezos: The answer is no 17:38 < BobJensen> is that timeline roughly correct? 17:38 < stickster> But I will discuss it with f13 and find out if he minds terribly just using an extra Source in the spec... then we can simply break it out 17:39 < glezos> We need to put that somewhere on the schedule.. The translators really need it. Basically, separate the release-notes from everything else (browser splash, about-fedora, etc) would be a good compromise. 17:40 < quaid> should we do that for this or the next package update? 17:41 < stickster> I don't see how it's such a huge help, since there's only a few dozen strings implicated in the extra two pieces 17:41 < BobJensen> quaid: Do we want to do it mid FC release or target that for the next Fedora release? 17:41 < glezos> quaid, if it's not very difficult, I would suggest to do it asap.. 17:41 < stickster> The vast majority come from the relnotes themselves 17:42 < stickster> glezos: It requires a change in the spec for the RPM, and it's going to be f13's call whether that's too major a change for mid-release 17:42 < glezos> stickster, there were some translators who wanted to translate the about-fedora and splash page but didn't have the resources to translate the relnotes 17:42 < stickster> Ah 17:42 < stickster> Yes, hadn't thought about it the other way 'round 17:42 < BobJensen> Changing our package mid release might get more resistance than doing it for a new release 17:43 < stickster> It really won't be a new package, just the same one now composed from three different sources 17:43 < BobJensen> true 17:43 < glezos> BobJensen, yes but that's why we are doing updates right? To fix things that didn't manage to get on the release.. 17:43 < quaid> if we can't, we can at least let people translate those and tell us, then we can take in the PO for host languages for the about-fedora etc. 17:44 < stickster> s/three/multiple/ 17:44 < BobJensen> stickster: I will be talking to Jesse about pungi this week, I will put a bug in his ear about the sources change if he does not speak up tonight 17:44 < stickster> He's pretty good about keeping up with his buffer, I'd think I'll get a shout back by tomorrow... but fer shur 17:45 < glezos> great 17:45 < BobJensen> yup yup 17:45 < stickster> I think this brings up a good point, mildly related 17:45 < glezos> BTW, we could still do it without changing the SPEC right? By doing a po merge before the packaging? 17:45 < stickster> We need to do a better job of training our new contributors 17:46 < quaid> who, us? 17:46 < stickster> Not that present company isn't awesome... we just need *more* awesomeness 17:46 < stickster> quaid: yup 17:46 < stickster> We still have no firm date on Plone stuff 17:46 < quaid> NewWriters is overly long, etc., but how can we do otherwise? 17:46 < stickster> So let's stop dragging feet on helping new guys learn DocBook XML + CVS 17:47 < quaid> how do you mean dragging? 17:47 < stickster> Oh, nothing in particular 17:47 < quaid> really it is more a matter of dragging people into it, and can we? 17:47 < quaid> ppl seem to really respond to the wiki 17:47 * stickster is just being tactless after a number of stupid meetings with "no-speak" bosses today 17:47 < quaid> and flinch at XML 17:48 < stickster> That's just because they see wikis everywhere and no one helps people learn XML 17:48 < stickster> I lucked out, I got in right before the wiki hit, so I had people helping me 17:48 < quaid> proposals/ 17:48 < quaid> ? 17:48 < stickster> Otherwise I'd think exactly the same thing 17:48 < quaid> I mean, when we had only the XML as a way to write, we had little help 17:49 < quaid> does this just mean, update doc-guide? 17:49 < BobJensen> IMO we all should have at least a clue about XML and CVS to prevent all of the work being on the shoulders of a few 17:49 < stickster> BobJensen: +1 17:49 < stickster> Otherwise we're a choke point 17:49 < BobJensen> sadly I am in that lacking clue group 17:49 < stickster> Did the gobby session we had before help at all? 17:49 < stickster> Would that work as a continuing series? 17:50 < BobJensen> stickster: I missed that actually 17:50 < stickster> It's in the archive, I sent a log to the list 17:50 < stickster> complete with examples from the editor session 17:50 < stickster> I think a lot of people get into Linux to learn something. 17:50 < stickster> We just have to enable the learning 17:50 < stickster> Without downing the wiki 17:50 < BobJensen> Yes I have that item, seeing t live woudl have been better, I think doing it again or even regualrly might be a bonus 17:50 < quaid> okey 17:51 < quaid> I approve, let's just do some stuff 17:51 < stickster> Yeah 17:51 < quaid> fixing the doc-guide would help a lot 17:51 < stickster> quaid: +5 17:51 * stickster is working on that after this meeting 17:52 < quaid> ok, I put it back on the active schedule 17:52 < quaid> I can pledge time for that, for sure 17:53 * stickster is resolved at next FUDCon to do a hands-on Docs session just about how to mechanically work our tools 17:53 < glezos> best way to recruit people, IMO, is to just give them jobs to do and a mentor to overlook, give a schedule of "deliverables" and poke them. 17:53 < |DrJef|> so when is FUDCon going to be help in Anchorage? 17:54 * stickster will hold special class for Jef :-D jk 17:54 < stickster> When is FUDCon going to be held anywhere, for that matter? 17:54 < stickster> hmm.... 17:55 < BobJensen> stickster: there was talk about Q107 17:56 < quaid> hmm 17:57 < stickster> heh, "Q107" was a hit radio station growing up here in DC 17:57 < BobJensen> LOL 17:57 < stickster> But OK... Maybe Boston again then? 17:58 < BobJensen> stickster: that was one place mentioned 17:58 < stickster> Maybe I'll wrangle a room at the RH Summit for this 17:58 < stickster> I know people in high places nowadays 17:58 < stickster> Matthew owes me for my big suck-up article, dontcha think? 17:58 * stickster looks around nervously at light bulbs 17:58 < stickster> heh heh, just kidding Matthew! he.... *ahurm* 17:59 < BobJensen> stickster: I am told that when the FUDCon happens I will be there 17:59 < stickster> OK, coming up on 60-min. mark... how are we doing? 18:00 < quaid> yep 18:00 < quaid> I'm ready for a light session now 18:00 < BobJensen> I wil have an update on the release notes for you guys for next week's meeting 18:00 < quaid> meeting still open for general discussions, another hour at the end 18:00 < quaid> just to see if anyone (megacoder0 drops by) 18:01 < BobJensen> One of my servers went MIA while we were chatting so i need to look at that 18:01 < BobJensen> BRB 18:03 * stickster goes off to work on doc-guide 18:03 < stickster> Durn, need to change discs too 18:04 < quaid> ok, we're on interim period here :) 18:04 < glezos> already 2am! darn. gnite. 18:14 * quaid takes a break to do some kitchen clean-up 18:51 * stickster idly wonders after calling up yelp for testing the DG, whether the DUG needs to be renamed so as not to conflict with the existing "Desktop User Guide" (provided by GNOME) 18:55 < quaid> hmm 18:56 < quaid> FUG? 19:05 < stickster> Heh 19:05 < stickster> Then it can be fugly 19:13 * quaid does some more movement on the Moin DocBook stuff 19:15 < cdehaan> I've been such a bad contributor lately... is the current setup of editing in MoinMoin and later converting to DocBook still the model for the immediate future? 19:18 * quaid gets out the whip for cdehaan 19:18 < cdehaan> What can I say? Busy semester :) 19:18 < quaid> :D 19:18 < cdehaan> I did get FC6 running quite nicely on my MacBook, though, which is wonderful 19:18 < quaid> cdehaan: check this out for the current and future thinking 19:18 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas 19:19 < quaid> the three-pronged approach section explains things best 19:19 < quaid> mainly, yes 19:19 < quaid> Wiki and XML are the tools 19:19 < quaid> but learning XML is worth doing now :) 19:20 < cdehaan> Good good 19:20 < cdehaan> Is there no good XML-Wiki style interface... such as that all the editing would actually be done in XML, and all files would be in XML, but they could be viewed as they are currently? 19:21 < cdehaan> Obviously MoinMoin wouldn't be the frontend to be doing this, but something similar? 19:22 < cdehaan> My opinion counts for very little, but that seems like the best idea... 19:31 < stickster> cdehaan: That is the "coming one day" version, yes 19:31 < stickster> cdehaan: I was just saying in our meeting that waiting for that to come about doesn't seem to be doing any good 19:32 < stickster> The more people we can get to learn the "real" tools, the more help there will be 19:32 < quaid> +1 19:32 < cdehaan> There's no interface, as of yet, to accomplish that goal? 19:32 < quaid> we are just always working to increase the # of editors 19:32 < quaid> the thing is 19:32 < stickster> Wiki editing is very important and a good thing, but if people are willing and able to learn a new skill, that's better 19:32 < quaid> yes, better than waiting :) 19:32 < stickster> Especially since we have time and willingness to teach 19:33 < quaid> cdehaan: there is no interace yet that can do that in a satisfactory way 19:33 < cdehaan> stickster: To me, DocBook makes more sense... I haven't truly learned it, but writing in terms of chapters, sections, etc. is clearer than abstract headings and icons that you do with MoinMoin 19:33 < quaid> but we can't wait for it to be done, and stickster is right about Just Learning It 19:33 < quaid> it's easy :) 19:33 < stickster> cdehaan: +1 19:34 < cdehaan> And, because I'm anal about these things, the idea of having the stuff in two "places" and in two formats bugs me. 19:35 < cdehaan> So we just need to recruit people with the skills to work on the unsatisfactory solutions to our issue, and make them satisfactory... or start from scratch. 19:36 < stickster> Starting from scratch -1 19:36 < stickster> But +1 on recruiting people who can help craft the new better solution 19:37 < stickster> It all revolves around people with Python+Zope+Plone skills 19:37 < stickster> In the meantime, by working in DocBook we know we can get to any other target 19:38 * stickster goes back to DocBook on DocGuide 19:39 < quaid> cdehaan: one way to get more comfie with the current situation is to think of it this way 19:39 < quaid> some docs have their source in the Wiki (Docs/Beats) and some in CVS/XML 19:39 < quaid> rather that one doc in two places 19:40 < quaid> the goal is to converge, all XML in SCM with multiple editors (Wiki, Emacs, OO.org, etc.0 19:40 < quaid> ok, I'm going to close this meeting up 19:40 < EvilBob> +1 19:40 < quaid> :D 19:40 < quaid> -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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