From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 1 19:33:13 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:33:13 +0100 Subject: Games packaging guidelines In-Reply-To: <47750DA3.2060106@fedoraproject.org> References: <47750DA3.2060106@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <477A9579.1090801@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > I noticed that we have some games specific guidelines at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Games#head-367e7208aacfec8f8aff1b34c1795e43c0967ecd > > > Shouldn't that be somewhere under packaging guidelines or atleast be > referred to from it? A link to it would be good I guess > I can propose this as a draft to the packaging > committee if the games SIG is supportive of that. For someone newly > packaging a game, the games specific packaging guidelines are not > visible at all currently. Before being proposed they would need some polishing, esp the one about packaging data seperately needs to be clarified and once it is clarified its kinda already in the guidelines (which already contain text about having one srpm per upstream tarbal AFAIK), the others are mostly little (often important_ details so I'm not sure if they should be made into generic guidelines. But a pointer to them definetely is a good idea. Regards, Hans From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 1 19:40:55 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:10:55 +0530 Subject: Games packaging guidelines In-Reply-To: <477A9579.1090801@hhs.nl> References: <47750DA3.2060106@fedoraproject.org> <477A9579.1090801@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <477A9747.1070008@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > > Before being proposed they would need some polishing, esp the one about > packaging data seperately needs to be clarified and once it is clarified > its kinda already in the guidelines (which already contain text about > having one srpm per upstream tarbal AFAIK), the others are mostly little > (often important_ details so I'm not sure if they should be made into > generic guidelines. > > But a pointer to them definetely is a good idea. I split some of the information in the games sig page into their own sub pages as it was getting too long and I think more of that needs to be done. The current guidelines are now at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Games/Packaging Please clarify any information needed and let me know so that I can propose adding a link to it to the packaging committee. Weren't you planning to becoming a member BTW? Rahul From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 1 20:59:44 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:59:44 +0100 Subject: Games packaging guidelines In-Reply-To: <477A9747.1070008@fedoraproject.org> References: <47750DA3.2060106@fedoraproject.org> <477A9579.1090801@hhs.nl> <477A9747.1070008@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <477AA9C0.1060400@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hans de Goede wrote: >> >> Before being proposed they would need some polishing, esp the one >> about packaging data seperately needs to be clarified and once it is >> clarified its kinda already in the guidelines (which already contain >> text about having one srpm per upstream tarbal AFAIK), the others are >> mostly little (often important_ details so I'm not sure if they should >> be made into generic guidelines. >> >> But a pointer to them definetely is a good idea. > > I split some of the information in the games sig page into their own sub > pages as it was getting too long and I think more of that needs to be done. > Thanks, That indeed was necessary > Please clarify any information needed and let me know so that I can > propose adding a link to it to the packaging committee. Weren't you > planning to becoming a member BTW? > I volunteered yes, I haven't heard anything since. Regards, Hans From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 1 21:46:38 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:16:38 +0530 Subject: Games packaging guidelines In-Reply-To: <477AA9C0.1060400@hhs.nl> References: <47750DA3.2060106@fedoraproject.org> <477A9579.1090801@hhs.nl> <477A9747.1070008@fedoraproject.org> <477AA9C0.1060400@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <477AB4BE.9030606@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > I volunteered yes, I haven't heard anything since. > Can you send a mail to the fedora-packaging list? Rahul From mr.ecik at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 17:51:47 2008 From: mr.ecik at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3_Bentkowski?=) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:51:47 +0100 Subject: Openarena and ioquake3 problem Message-ID: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> Hi! Following Hans's suggestion in bug [1], I decided to make openarena work using quake3 engine available in repo. Everything seemed to work good, I even built the package in rawhide (but it's been already untagged) when it turned out that multiplayer is unplayable . First of all, quake3's openarena doesn't look for servers on dpmaster.deathmask.net master server (which is the right one for it) but the default one *even* if I explictly set sv_master1 parameter. But it's not a big problem at all. The much worse thing is that quake3's openarena just quits when I type known IP address of a server. It leaves following messages: ----- FS_Startup ----- Current search path: /home/ecik/.openarena/baseq3 /usr/share/quake3/baseq3 /usr/bin/baseq3 ---------------------- 3573 files in pk3 files pak0.pk3 is missing. Please copy it from your legitimate Q3 CDROM. Point Release files are missing. Please re-install the 1.32 point release. Also check that your Q3 executable is in the correct place and that every file in the baseq3 directory is present and readable. ----- CL_Shutdown ----- RE_Shutdown( 1 ) ----------------------- Sys_Error: *** you need to install Quake III Arena in order to play *** Shutdown tty console It was a bit surprising it behaves so since just after running it looks for files in proper directories (i.e. $HOME/.openarena/baseoa). Adding "+set fs_basegame baseoa +set fs_basepath $HOME/.openarena" seemed to be able to fix the problems but it didn't. Quake3's openarena now looks for files in proper directories, finds them but despite of: /home/ecik/.openarena/baseoa/pak0.pk3 (926 files) it still says: pak0.pk3 is missing. Please copy it from your legitimate Q3 CDROM. I found a file [2] in ioquake3's svn and it probably clarifies things a little. It seems that ioquake3 just checks checksum of pk3 files and when they don't match, the game just crashes. Also, ioquake3 is written just to work with default baseq3 or demoq3, not with another files. Would be nice, thought, if somebody with better understanding of English has a look at [2]. So what we know now? The single player mode works without any problem, just as with openarena's binary. Multiplayer does not. I consider it odd, maybe there is somebody who knows more about ioquake3's command line parameters and there is a way to make it working. I'm afraid that changes made by openarena team to ioquake3 source are made to make multiplayer playable. However, I hope they're not. I'm writing this post because I count that somebody may help with fixing the package. Share your thoughts, if you need any more information, feel free to ask. Look at [3] to see spec file. Hope we'll find a way to fix it :) [1]: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=356591 [2]: http://svn.icculus.org/*checkout*/quake3/trunk/code/qcommon/files.c [3]: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/*checkout*/devel/openarena/openarena.spec -- Micha? Bentkowski mr.ecik at gmail.com From freegamerblog at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 15:43:35 2008 From: freegamerblog at gmail.com (Free Gamer) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:43:35 +0000 Subject: Introduction + Start Message-ID: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, My name is Charles Goodwin and I'm the author of Free Gamer (see sig for URL) which is a blog / list on Free Software games. It means I have a ridiculous amount of open sources games to be found in the depths of my grey cells so hopefully I have some good suggestions for you. Here's a few to start: Lost Labyrinth: http://www.lostlabyrinth.com/ (An awesome little GPL game) Hex-a-hop: http://libregamewiki.org/Hex-a-hop (Fun arcade game although homepage is offline) Simutrans: http://www.simutrans.com (Simutrans eventually became GPL licensed last year) Many more suggestions to come! - C -- Free Gamer - free & open source games list & commentary http://freegamer.blogspot.com/ From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Jan 8 17:03:33 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:03:33 +0200 Subject: Introduction + Start In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> References: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4783ACE5.40709@nicubunu.ro> Free Gamer wrote: > > Lost Labyrinth: http://www.lostlabyrinth.com/ > (An awesome little GPL game) This one needs a proprietary compiler, so it can't be integrated in the Fedora build system (but indeed, the game is nice). -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From little.miry at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 18:25:42 2008 From: little.miry at gmail.com (Miriam Ruiz) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:25:42 +0100 Subject: Introduction + Start In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> References: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4671dd0c0801081025l42d818b2l8edda0db7a69536e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, My name is Miriam Ruiz, and I'm the founder of the Debian Games Team [1], and one of its co-admins. Some days ago, Hans de Goede contacted us and I decided to join this list, sorry I have not introduced myself before. 2008/1/8, Free Gamer : > Hex-a-hop: http://libregamewiki.org/Hex-a-hop > (Fun arcade game although homepage is offline) This game is really cool and addictive, and I really recommend it, I don't know if you already have it in Fedora. If you have interest in having it internationalized, have a look at the patches [2] we've developed for it, as we're supporting gettext and utf8 (via SDL-pango). Greetings, Miry [1] http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Team [2] http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-games/packages/trunk/hex-a-hop/debian/patches/ From Lam at Lam.pl Tue Jan 8 18:40:57 2008 From: Lam at Lam.pl (Leszek Matok) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:40:57 +0100 Subject: Introduction + Start In-Reply-To: <4783ACE5.40709@nicubunu.ro> References: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> <4783ACE5.40709@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <20080108194057.792696dd@pensja.lam.pl> Dnia 2008-01-08, o godz. 19:03:33 Nicu Buculei napisa?(a): > This one needs a proprietary compiler, so it can't be integrated in the > Fedora build system (but indeed, the game is nice). It says on the webpage that: - there is an allegedly "Open Source" version 4.0 - it can compile the code to assembler, which can be tweaked and assembled with nasm (we can distribute that, right? :)) Lam -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 8 18:48:17 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:48:17 +0100 Subject: Introduction + Start In-Reply-To: <4671dd0c0801081025l42d818b2l8edda0db7a69536e@mail.gmail.com> References: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> <4671dd0c0801081025l42d818b2l8edda0db7a69536e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4783C571.3060206@hhs.nl> Miriam Ruiz wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Miriam Ruiz, and I'm the founder of the Debian Games Team > [1], and one of its co-admins. Some days ago, Hans de Goede contacted > us and I decided to join this list, sorry I have not introduced myself > before. > Hi, Welcome and thanks for the input! Regards, Hans From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 8 18:54:21 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:54:21 +0100 Subject: Introduction + Start In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> References: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4783C6DD.1050904@hhs.nl> Free Gamer wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Charles Goodwin and I'm the author of Free Gamer (see sig > for URL) which is a blog / list on Free Software games. It means I > have a ridiculous amount of open sources games to be found in the > depths of my grey cells so hopefully I have some good suggestions for > you. > Hi, Nice to meet you. > Here's a few to start: > > Lost Labyrinth: http://www.lostlabyrinth.com/ > (An awesome little GPL game) > As already said (and wrongly disputed) this one needs a proprietary compiler and thus is a no no. > Hex-a-hop: http://libregamewiki.org/Hex-a-hop > (Fun arcade game although homepage is offline) > Might be a good candidate. > Simutrans: http://www.simutrans.com > (Simutrans eventually became GPL licensed last year) > Currently does not have any clearly licensed datafiles. Regards, Hans From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 8 18:55:03 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:55:03 +0100 Subject: Introduction + Start In-Reply-To: <20080108194057.792696dd@pensja.lam.pl> References: <755b37e70801080743r36b25a5cjc0b76fb892331ec4@mail.gmail.com> <4783ACE5.40709@nicubunu.ro> <20080108194057.792696dd@pensja.lam.pl> Message-ID: <4783C707.9060509@hhs.nl> Leszek Matok wrote: > Dnia 2008-01-08, o godz. 19:03:33 Nicu Buculei > napisa?(a): > >> This one needs a proprietary compiler, so it can't be integrated in the >> Fedora build system (but indeed, the game is nice). > It says on the webpage that: > - there is an allegedly "Open Source" version 4.0 Only a partial "opensource" release for amiga, in other words useless. Regards, Hans From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 8 20:19:56 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:19:56 +0100 Subject: Openarena and ioquake3 problem In-Reply-To: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> References: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4783DAEC.9090107@hhs.nl> Micha? Bentkowski wrote: > Hi! > > Following Hans's suggestion in bug [1], I decided to make openarena > work using quake3 engine available in repo. Everything seemed to work > good, I even built the package in rawhide (but it's been already > untagged) when it turned out that multiplayer is unplayable > . > First of all, quake3's openarena doesn't look for servers on > dpmaster.deathmask.net master server (which is the right one for it) > but the default one *even* if I explictly set sv_master1 parameter. > But it's not a big problem at all. The much worse thing is that > quake3's openarena just quits when I type known IP address of a > server. It leaves following messages: > I'm afraid I'm much too busy atm the take a look at this any other takers for taking a stab at this? Regards, Hans From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 8 20:20:08 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:20:08 +0100 Subject: Openarena and ioquake3 problem In-Reply-To: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> References: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4783DAF8.3080005@hhs.nl> Micha? Bentkowski wrote: > Hi! > > Following Hans's suggestion in bug [1], I decided to make openarena > work using quake3 engine available in repo. Everything seemed to work > good, I even built the package in rawhide (but it's been already > untagged) when it turned out that multiplayer is unplayable > . > First of all, quake3's openarena doesn't look for servers on > dpmaster.deathmask.net master server (which is the right one for it) > but the default one *even* if I explictly set sv_master1 parameter. > But it's not a big problem at all. The much worse thing is that > quake3's openarena just quits when I type known IP address of a > server. It leaves following messages: > I'm afraid I'm much too busy atm the take a look at this any other takers for taking a stab at this? Regards, Hans > ----- FS_Startup ----- > Current search path: > /home/ecik/.openarena/baseq3 > /usr/share/quake3/baseq3 > /usr/bin/baseq3 > > ---------------------- > 3573 files in pk3 files > > > pak0.pk3 is missing. Please copy it > from your legitimate Q3 CDROM. > > > Point Release files are missing. Please > re-install the 1.32 point release. > > > Also check that your Q3 executable is in > the correct place and that every file > in the baseq3 directory is present and readable. > ----- CL_Shutdown ----- > RE_Shutdown( 1 ) > ----------------------- > Sys_Error: > *** you need to install Quake III Arena in order to play *** > Shutdown tty console > > It was a bit surprising it behaves so since just after running it > looks for files in proper directories (i.e. $HOME/.openarena/baseoa). > Adding "+set fs_basegame baseoa +set fs_basepath $HOME/.openarena" > seemed to be able to fix the problems but it didn't. Quake3's > openarena now looks for files in proper directories, finds them but > despite of: > /home/ecik/.openarena/baseoa/pak0.pk3 (926 files) > it still says: > pak0.pk3 is missing. Please copy it > from your legitimate Q3 CDROM. > > I found a file [2] in ioquake3's svn and it probably clarifies things > a little. It seems that ioquake3 just checks checksum of pk3 files and > when they don't match, the game just crashes. Also, ioquake3 is > written just to work with default baseq3 or demoq3, not with another > files. Would be nice, thought, if somebody with better understanding > of English has a look at [2]. > So what we know now? The single player mode works without any problem, > just as with openarena's binary. Multiplayer does not. I consider it > odd, maybe there is somebody who knows more about ioquake3's command > line parameters and there is a way to make it working. > I'm afraid that changes made by openarena team to ioquake3 source are > made to make multiplayer playable. However, I hope they're not. > I'm writing this post because I count that somebody may help with > fixing the package. Share your thoughts, if you need any more > information, feel free to ask. Look at [3] to see spec file. Hope > we'll find a way to fix it :) > > > [1]: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=356591 > [2]: http://svn.icculus.org/*checkout*/quake3/trunk/code/qcommon/files.c > [3]: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/*checkout*/devel/openarena/openarena.spec From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Fri Jan 11 16:27:01 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:27:01 +0100 Subject: Openarena and ioquake3 problem In-Reply-To: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> References: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478798D5.6020200@hhs.nl> Micha? Bentkowski wrote: > Hi! > > Following Hans's suggestion in bug [1], I decided to make openarena > work using quake3 engine available in repo. Everything seemed to work > good, I even built the package in rawhide (but it's been already > untagged) when it turned out that multiplayer is unplayable > . > First of all, quake3's openarena doesn't look for servers on > dpmaster.deathmask.net master server (which is the right one for it) > but the default one *even* if I explictly set sv_master1 parameter. > But it's not a big problem at all. The much worse thing is that > quake3's openarena just quits when I type known IP address of a > server. It leaves following messages: > Good news, I've had some time to work on this and I've made several small patches for the generic ioquake3 to make it play well together with openarena. A build for devel is on its way here: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=342449 Grep the srpm there and rebuild for F-8, or download the pre build rpms for devel. The correct command to start openarena is: quake3 +set fs_homepath $HOME/.openarena +set fs_game baseoa +set cl_master dpmaster.deathmask.net Assuming that ~/.openarena has already been created and populated by the current openarena launcher script. Regards, Hans From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 13 06:28:12 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:58:12 +0530 Subject: Simcity released under GPL Message-ID: <4789AF7C.5000501@fedoraproject.org> Hi Just FYI. http://weblogs.asp.net/bsimser/archive/2008/01/10/simcity-source-code-released-to-the-wild-let-the-ports-begin.aspx Rahul From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Sun Jan 13 08:39:27 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:39:27 +0100 Subject: Simcity released under GPL In-Reply-To: <4789AF7C.5000501@fedoraproject.org> References: <4789AF7C.5000501@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4789CE3F.70803@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Just FYI. > > http://weblogs.asp.net/bsimser/archive/2008/01/10/simcity-source-code-released-to-the-wild-let-the-ports-begin.aspx > Hi, I already saw this, but this indeed is interested I'm considering taking a shot a packaging this, but currently I'm very busy with other stuff, so if someone else wants to package just drop a note to this list to avoid doing double work and go for it! Regards, Hans From mr.ecik at gmail.com Sun Jan 13 23:11:52 2008 From: mr.ecik at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3_Bentkowski?=) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:11:52 +0100 Subject: Openarena and ioquake3 problem In-Reply-To: <478798D5.6020200@hhs.nl> References: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> <478798D5.6020200@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <668bb39a0801131511k491ad22eyd952a7f0689f6ff0@mail.gmail.com> Hi! Thank you Hans, you did a really, really good job! All people here should appreciate it! I have one suggestion though. You've made a patch not to be asked by openarena for cdkey. It could be combined with another patch. When trying to connect to any server, in terminal could be read: Resolving authorize.quake3arena.com authorize.quake3arena.com resolved to 192.246.40.56:27952 It's no use, because it even doesn't try to authorize the game then (which is a correct behaviour). In extreme example this useless resolving could slow down connecting to server. I wouldn't label this fix as must-do though. Anyway, thanks for fixes you've made once again! 11-01-08, Hans de Goede napisa?(a): > Micha? Bentkowski wrote: > > Hi! > > > > Following Hans's suggestion in bug [1], I decided to make openarena > > work using quake3 engine available in repo. Everything seemed to work > > good, I even built the package in rawhide (but it's been already > > untagged) when it turned out that multiplayer is unplayable > > . > > First of all, quake3's openarena doesn't look for servers on > > dpmaster.deathmask.net master server (which is the right one for it) > > but the default one *even* if I explictly set sv_master1 parameter. > > But it's not a big problem at all. The much worse thing is that > > quake3's openarena just quits when I type known IP address of a > > server. It leaves following messages: > > > > > Good news, I've had some time to work on this and I've made several small > patches for the generic ioquake3 to make it play well together with openarena. > > A build for devel is on its way here: > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=342449 > > Grep the srpm there and rebuild for F-8, or download the pre build rpms for devel. > > The correct command to start openarena is: > quake3 +set fs_homepath $HOME/.openarena +set fs_game baseoa +set cl_master > dpmaster.deathmask.net > > Assuming that ~/.openarena has already been created and populated by the > current openarena launcher script. > > Regards, > > Hans > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-games-list mailing list > Fedora-games-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list > -- Micha? Bentkowski mr.ecik at gmail.com From little.miry at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 10:30:19 2008 From: little.miry at gmail.com (Miriam Ruiz) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:30:19 +0100 Subject: Simcity released under GPL In-Reply-To: <4789CE3F.70803@hhs.nl> References: <4789AF7C.5000501@fedoraproject.org> <4789CE3F.70803@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <4671dd0c0801140230q6bb65cal140100e4779380a6@mail.gmail.com> 2008/1/13, Hans de Goede : > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Just FYI. > > > > http://weblogs.asp.net/bsimser/archive/2008/01/10/simcity-source-code-released-to-the-wild-let-the-ports-begin.aspx > > > > Hi, > > I already saw this, but this indeed is interested I'm considering taking a shot > a packaging this, but currently I'm very busy with other stuff, so if someone > else wants to package just drop a note to this list to avoid doing double work > and go for it! I'm planning to start packaging it for Debian Games Team, maybe we should try to cooperate in what is possible? (license checks, manpages, patches and so) Greetings, Miry From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 15 15:25:17 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:55:17 +0530 Subject: Simcity released under GPL In-Reply-To: <4671dd0c0801140230q6bb65cal140100e4779380a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4789AF7C.5000501@fedoraproject.org> <4789CE3F.70803@hhs.nl> <4671dd0c0801140230q6bb65cal140100e4779380a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478CD05D.20601@fedoraproject.org> Miriam Ruiz wrote: > 2008/1/13, Hans de Goede : >> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> Just FYI. >>> >>> http://weblogs.asp.net/bsimser/archive/2008/01/10/simcity-source-code-released-to-the-wild-let-the-ports-begin.aspx >>> >> Hi, >> >> I already saw this, but this indeed is interested I'm considering taking a shot >> a packaging this, but currently I'm very busy with other stuff, so if someone >> else wants to package just drop a note to this list to avoid doing double work >> and go for it! > > I'm planning to start packaging it for Debian Games Team, maybe we > should try to cooperate in what is possible? (license checks, > manpages, patches and so) Refer http://blog.kagesenshi.org/2008/01/original-simcity-gpled-as-micropolis.html Rahul From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Jan 15 16:11:41 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:11:41 +0100 Subject: Simcity released under GPL In-Reply-To: <4671dd0c0801140230q6bb65cal140100e4779380a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4789AF7C.5000501@fedoraproject.org> <4789CE3F.70803@hhs.nl> <4671dd0c0801140230q6bb65cal140100e4779380a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478CDB3D.7040304@hhs.nl> Miriam Ruiz wrote: > 2008/1/13, Hans de Goede : >> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> Just FYI. >>> >>> http://weblogs.asp.net/bsimser/archive/2008/01/10/simcity-source-code-released-to-the-wild-let-the-ports-begin.aspx >>> >> Hi, >> >> I already saw this, but this indeed is interested I'm considering taking a shot >> a packaging this, but currently I'm very busy with other stuff, so if someone >> else wants to package just drop a note to this list to avoid doing double work >> and go for it! > > I'm planning to start packaging it for Debian Games Team, maybe we > should try to cooperate in what is possible? (license checks, > manpages, patches and so) > I'm currently way too busy with other stuff to seriously look at this. But when I find the time in the future I'll be sure to check your work and to send any fixes I do your way. Thanks, Hans From little.miry at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 16:17:10 2008 From: little.miry at gmail.com (Miriam Ruiz) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:17:10 +0100 Subject: Simcity released under GPL In-Reply-To: <478CDB3D.7040304@hhs.nl> References: <4789AF7C.5000501@fedoraproject.org> <4789CE3F.70803@hhs.nl> <4671dd0c0801140230q6bb65cal140100e4779380a6@mail.gmail.com> <478CDB3D.7040304@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <4671dd0c0801150817i6664974p4555a5393517776a@mail.gmail.com> 2008/1/15, Hans de Goede : > I'm currently way too busy with other stuff to seriously look at this. But when > I find the time in the future I'll be sure to check your work and to send any > fixes I do your way. Cool, thanks Hans :) My patches are available at: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-games/packages/trunk/micropolis-activity/debian/patches/ Greetings, Miry From tcallawa at redhat.com Wed Jan 16 19:46:02 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:46:02 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns Message-ID: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi folks, I hate for my first post to this mailing list to be a depressing one, but I need to pass along some bad news. Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora which meet the following criteria: A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) crosses that point or line, and gets points. This means: No "Guitar Hero" clones. No "Dance Dance Revolution" clones. I need your help to make sure that we don't have any other games that meet this criteria, either on the wish list or in Fedora. If you're not sure, ask me. Thanks in advance, ~spot From Lam at Lam.pl Wed Jan 16 20:39:36 2008 From: Lam at Lam.pl (Leszek Matok) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:39:36 +0100 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20080116213936.7547c639@pensja.lam.pl> Dnia 2008-01-16, o godz. 14:46:02 "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" napisa?(a): > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > crosses that point or line, and gets points. Does camping in Quake count? Lam -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Wed Jan 16 20:42:00 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:42:00 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <20080116213936.7547c639@pensja.lam.pl> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20080116213936.7547c639@pensja.lam.pl> Message-ID: <1200516120.11327.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 21:39 +0100, Leszek Matok wrote: > Dnia 2008-01-16, o godz. 14:46:02 "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" > napisa?(a): > > > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > > crosses that point or line, and gets points. > Does camping in Quake count? Nah, although campers deserve to be sniped. ;) ~spot From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Jan 16 20:42:48 2008 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:42:48 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:02PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora > which meet the following criteria: > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > crosses that point or line, and gets points. Seriously? I wrote an AppleBasic game in fourth grade (1984) that did that. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Jan 16 20:48:57 2008 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:48:57 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20080116204857.GA1953@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 03:42:48PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:02PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > > Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora > > which meet the following criteria: > > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > > crosses that point or line, and gets points. > Seriously? I wrote an AppleBasic game in fourth grade (1984) that did that. And by "did that", I mean literally that's exactly all it did. Squares came into the screen the left and moved to the right, and you got points if you hit a key exactly when they crossed a line in the middle of the screen. Sure wish I'd published that code. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Wed Jan 16 20:50:21 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:50:21 +0100 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <478E6E0D.4050003@hhs.nl> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:02PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote: >> Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora >> which meet the following criteria: >> A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point >> or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) >> crosses that point or line, and gets points. > > Seriously? I wrote an AppleBasic game in fourth grade (1984) that did that. > I hear you, some smartass behind DDR though so game mechanics can't be copyrighted, lets patent them. Cheesh. Maybe its an idea to petition pubpat: http://www.pubpat.org/ to fight this? I know they have much bigger (and much more important) fish to catch, but this seems trivially easy to overthrow. Regards, Hans From tcallawa at redhat.com Wed Jan 16 21:02:19 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:02:19 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <478E6E0D.4050003@hhs.nl> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> <478E6E0D.4050003@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <1200517339.11327.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 21:50 +0100, Hans de Goede wrote: > Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:02PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > >> Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora > >> which meet the following criteria: > >> A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > >> or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > >> crosses that point or line, and gets points. > > > > Seriously? I wrote an AppleBasic game in fourth grade (1984) that did that. > > > > I hear you, some smartass behind DDR though so game mechanics can't be > copyrighted, lets patent them. > > Cheesh. > > Maybe its an idea to petition pubpat: http://www.pubpat.org/ to fight this? I > know they have much bigger (and much more important) fish to catch, but this > seems trivially easy to overthrow. If you're motivated to find the prior art, feel free. Unfortunately, I have several million other things on my todo list, and I'm not going to add "hunt down prior art to invalidate video game patents held by mega-corps" to that list anytime soon. ~spot From kanarip at kanarip.com Thu Jan 17 00:15:26 2008 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:15:26 +0100 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200516120.11327.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20080116213936.7547c639@pensja.lam.pl> <1200516120.11327.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <478E9E1E.4020501@kanarip.com> Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 21:39 +0100, Leszek Matok wrote: >> Dnia 2008-01-16, o godz. 14:46:02 "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" >> napisa??(a): >> >>> A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point >>> or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) >>> crosses that point or line, and gets points. >> Does camping in Quake count? > > Nah, although campers deserve to be sniped. ;) > Mostly though the campers are the snipers also... -Jeroen From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Thu Jan 17 10:00:07 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:00:07 +0100 Subject: Openarena and ioquake3 problem In-Reply-To: <668bb39a0801131511k491ad22eyd952a7f0689f6ff0@mail.gmail.com> References: <668bb39a0801060951i49cf7bc4ob20f06fbdff9d97b@mail.gmail.com> <478798D5.6020200@hhs.nl> <668bb39a0801131511k491ad22eyd952a7f0689f6ff0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478F2727.3050600@hhs.nl> Micha? Bentkowski wrote: > Hi! > Thank you Hans, you did a really, really good job! All people here > should appreciate it! > I have one suggestion though. You've made a patch not to be asked by > openarena for cdkey. It could be combined with another patch. When > trying to connect to any server, in terminal could be read: > > Resolving authorize.quake3arena.com > authorize.quake3arena.com resolved to 192.246.40.56:27952 > > It's no use, because it even doesn't try to authorize the game then > (which is a correct behaviour). In extreme example this useless > resolving could slow down connecting to server. > I wouldn't label this fix as must-do though. > Anyway, thanks for fixes you've made once again! > Erm, I'm not sure where you got the idea it doesn't even try to authorize, it does seem to connect and send a request judging from the code. I don't know whats done with the result, I guess the result gets ignored later on. But as I don't fully understand whats happening I would rather leave it as is. Regards, Hans From seg at haxxed.com Thu Jan 17 10:17:33 2008 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 04:17:33 -0600 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200565054.15354.12.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 14:46 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > crosses that point or line, and gets points. > > This means: > > No "Guitar Hero" clones. > No "Dance Dance Revolution" clones. You've got to be shitting me. ... So, how about if the "targets" stay still and the cursor moves? I think there's assloads of prior art on that... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From muusik at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 12:15:47 2008 From: muusik at gmail.com (Johannes) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:15:47 +0200 Subject: Patent concerns Message-ID: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> > On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 21:50 +0100, Hans de Goede wrote: > > Matthew Miller wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:02PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > > >> Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora > > >> which meet the following criteria: > > >> A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > > >> or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > > >> crosses that point or line, and gets points. > > > > > > Seriously? I wrote an AppleBasic game in fourth grade (1984) that did that. > > > > > > > I hear you, some smartass behind DDR though so game mechanics can't be > > copyrighted, lets patent them. > > > > Cheesh. > > > > Maybe its an idea to petition pubpat: http://www.pubpat.org/ to fight this? I > > know they have much bigger (and much more important) fish to catch, but this > > seems trivially easy to overthrow. > > If you're motivated to find the prior art, feel free. >From the top of my head, Moon Buggy. If you haven't seen it, here's a quick description: You can see the left side of a (moon) buggy on the right side of the screen and a (moon) surface underneath with pits in it that moves from left to right. You control the buggy and have to jump over the holes (you can't move left or right, you can just jump). So: you have "targets" (pits) that move across the screen and you have a predetermined point (buggy) where you have to press a button, so a fine piece of prior art if you ask me. It's not very old (Version 1 was released in 2004), but it has some ancestry: it's based on a 1982 game "Moon Patrol" which, based on screenshots, seems to be quite similar. Johannes From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jan 17 13:09:58 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:09:58 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200565054.15354.12.camel@localhost> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200565054.15354.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1200575398.8195.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 04:17 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 14:46 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > > crosses that point or line, and gets points. > > > > This means: > > > > No "Guitar Hero" clones. > > No "Dance Dance Revolution" clones. > > You've got to be shitting me. > > ... So, how about if the "targets" stay still and the cursor moves? I > think there's assloads of prior art on that... No, the patent is pretty darned specific. Its "targets moving in a straight line" to a "predetermined point or line", and the player having to hit a button at that precise point or line to get points. If you're shooting the target, doesn't apply. If there is cursor motion involved, doesn't apply. As far as I can tell, only DDR, Guitar Hero, and Donkey Konga games meet this criteria, and I don't think we have anything like that in Fedora currently. Am I wrong? ~spot From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jan 17 13:11:55 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:11:55 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> Message-ID: <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 14:15 +0200, Johannes wrote: > >From the top of my head, Moon Buggy. If you haven't seen it, here's a > quick description: You can see the left side of a (moon) buggy on the > right side of the screen and a (moon) surface underneath with pits in > it that moves from left to right. You control the buggy and have to > jump over the holes (you can't move left or right, you can just jump). > So: you have "targets" (pits) that move across the screen and you have > a predetermined point (buggy) where you have to press a button, so a > fine piece of prior art if you ask me. It's not very old (Version 1 was > released in 2004), but it has some ancestry: it's based on a 1982 game > "Moon Patrol" which, based on screenshots, seems to be quite similar. I don't think that is sufficient. The patent is pretty clear about the way to score points is for the player to hit a button to match the linear moving target when it crosses the point in space. "Jumping" or "Shooting" doesn't count. ~spot From muusik at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 14:48:20 2008 From: muusik at gmail.com (Johannes Dahl) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:48:20 +0200 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 17, 2008 3:11 PM, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > I don't think that is sufficient. The patent is pretty clear about the > way to score points is for the player to hit a button to match the > linear moving target when it crosses the point in space. "Jumping" or > "Shooting" doesn't count. I suppose you might be right. I have another idea, but can you first tell us when and to whom was the patent issued? Johannes From freegamerblog at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 15:10:54 2008 From: freegamerblog at gmail.com (Free Gamer) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:10:54 +0000 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <755b37e70801170710h1843ef70p5ac40bd6ebfea5f3@mail.gmail.com> I appreciate the concern over patents here, but at the same time I'm pretty sure that the Linux kernel infringes on a whole bunch of patents - when are you going to remove that? I'm serious. - C On Jan 17, 2008 2:48 PM, Johannes Dahl wrote: > I suppose you might be right. I have another idea, but can you first > tell us when and to whom was the patent issued? From freegamerblog at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 15:17:34 2008 From: freegamerblog at gmail.com (Free Gamer) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:17:34 +0000 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801170710h1843ef70p5ac40bd6ebfea5f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> <755b37e70801170710h1843ef70p5ac40bd6ebfea5f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <755b37e70801170717n5f6aac3dg708eb2034466d1dd@mail.gmail.com> My rather facetious point is that there is a whole bunch of unenforceable patents out there in what is a rather rubbish system that it's dire need of reform. It's ridiculous that you can patent a gameplay style. In any other western country that patent would not be granted. Not abusing trademarks is one thing, but being forced to tip toe around issues like incredulous patents is a slap in the face. So, only that company is allowed to make that type of game, a style that's been around for decades before them? I can understand Red Hat's corporate stance, but surely there's a moral one here to and just caving in to a bit of legal strong arming is not setting out what Red Hat is about, a company that has traditionally operated on strong moral principles. - C On Jan 17, 2008 3:10 PM, Free Gamer wrote: > I appreciate the concern over patents here, but at the same time I'm > pretty sure that the Linux kernel infringes on a whole bunch of > patents - when are you going to remove that? > > I'm serious. > > - C From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jan 17 15:18:36 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:18:36 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801170710h1843ef70p5ac40bd6ebfea5f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> <755b37e70801170710h1843ef70p5ac40bd6ebfea5f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200583116.8195.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 15:10 +0000, Free Gamer wrote: > I appreciate the concern over patents here, but at the same time I'm > pretty sure that the Linux kernel infringes on a whole bunch of > patents - when are you going to remove that? > > I'm serious. Pretty sure doesn't cut it. If you have specific patent concerns around the Linux kernel, feel free to contact me offlist. ~spot From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jan 17 15:24:05 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:24:05 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801170717n5f6aac3dg708eb2034466d1dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> <755b37e70801170710h1843ef70p5ac40bd6ebfea5f3@mail.gmail.com> <755b37e70801170717n5f6aac3dg708eb2034466d1dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200583445.8195.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 15:17 +0000, Free Gamer wrote: > It's ridiculous that you can patent a gameplay style. In any other > western country that patent would not be granted. > > Not abusing trademarks is one thing, but being forced to tip toe > around issues like incredulous patents is a slap in the face. So, > only that company is allowed to make that type of game, a style that's > been around for decades before them? Yes, I agree, it is ridiculous. However, these are the times in which we live, and Red Hat has decided to not take a risk around this patent set. The owner of this particular patent is aggressively licensing it to other people, so they see a huge value in it, and would likely go out of their way to defend its use (especially against an entity with plenty of money in the bank). ~spot From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jan 17 15:26:42 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:26:42 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801170717n5f6aac3dg708eb2034466d1dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> <755b37e70801170710h1843ef70p5ac40bd6ebfea5f3@mail.gmail.com> <755b37e70801170717n5f6aac3dg708eb2034466d1dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200583602.8195.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 15:17 +0000, Free Gamer wrote: > I can understand Red Hat's corporate stance, but surely there's a > moral one here to and just caving in to a bit of legal strong arming > is not setting out what Red Hat is about, a company that has > traditionally operated on strong moral principles. One of those "strong moral principles" is: - Don't infringe on other people's patents, no matter how ludicrous. When Fedora is made aware of patents that we may be infringing upon, we act on that, with the aid of legal counsel. This is the decision that our patent lawyers have given us. The only recourse available is to find prior art and make a case to the US Patent Office, to try to have the patent invalidated. ~spot From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jan 17 15:33:19 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:33:19 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200572148.12377.42.camel@lost> <1200575515.8195.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <984651d90801170648r7149de20ra838ee300bc3a939@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200583999.8195.55.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 16:48 +0200, Johannes Dahl wrote: > On Jan 17, 2008 3:11 PM, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > > > I don't think that is sufficient. The patent is pretty clear about the > > way to score points is for the player to hit a button to match the > > linear moving target when it crosses the point in space. "Jumping" or > > "Shooting" doesn't count. > > I suppose you might be right. I have another idea, but can you first > tell us when and to whom was the patent issued? I'll be explicit: Read this: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16014 The primary patent of concern is US 6347998, held by Konami. In addition, Harmonix seems to hold patents directly related: http://www.patentstorm.us/assignees/Harmonix_Music_Systems,_Inc_-88927-1.html Good luck. ~spot From seg at haxxed.com Fri Jan 18 02:11:43 2008 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:11:43 -0600 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200575398.8195.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200565054.15354.12.camel@localhost> <1200575398.8195.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200622303.15354.91.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 08:09 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > > ... So, how about if the "targets" stay still and the cursor moves? I > > think there's assloads of prior art on that... > > No, the patent is pretty darned specific. Its "targets moving in a > straight line" to a "predetermined point or line", and the player having > to hit a button at that precise point or line to get points. If you're > shooting the target, doesn't apply. If there is cursor motion involved, > doesn't apply. Hmmm. Basically I've been tossing around the idea of developing piano tutor software, that has the visual flair and interest of DDR and Guitar Hero and whatnot, but actually teaches you to play piano and sight read music notation. I found something along the lines of what I'm thinking: http://www.synthesiagame.com/ However it seems its not portable, and is going closed source, and originally did not have the goal of teaching notation. That is apparently a pay feature... Really doesn't sound worth salvaging to me. I was thinking this would be an excuse to do something in python... I suppose if I ever actually do this, I'll have to remember to duck this patent somehow... :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Fri Jan 18 02:38:30 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:38:30 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200622303.15354.91.camel@localhost> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200565054.15354.12.camel@localhost> <1200575398.8195.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200622303.15354.91.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1200623910.1990.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 20:11 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > I was thinking this would be an excuse to do something in python... I > suppose if I ever actually do this, I'll have to remember to duck this > patent somehow... :P There are quite a few related patents, so I would be especially cautious. ~spot From nbarriga at alumnos.inf.utfsm.cl Fri Jan 18 15:44:57 2008 From: nbarriga at alumnos.inf.utfsm.cl (Nicolas Barriga) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:44:57 -0300 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <1200623910.1990.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200622303.15354.91.camel@localhost> <1200623910.1990.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200801181244.57221.nbarriga@alumnos.inf.utfsm.cl> On Thursday 17 January 2008 23:38:30 Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 20:11 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > I was thinking this would be an excuse to do something in python... I > > suppose if I ever actually do this, I'll have to remember to duck this > > patent somehow... :P > > There are quite a few related patents, so I would be especially > cautious. > If the patents are so ridiculous as the ones that have being discussed here, you could just host the project outside the US. Patents are valid only in the country where the patents were issued. If more people start using this approach, then the U.S. patent office will(hopefully) realize that there is something wrong with the way they have been operating until now. Cheers, -- Nicolas Barriga User #318341 counter.li.org ALMA AIV Software Engineer Phone:1-505-835-7480 SkypeId: nicolasbarriga YahooMessenger: barriganicolas From NZheretic at gmail.com Sat Jan 19 08:51:27 2008 From: NZheretic at gmail.com (David Mohring) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:51:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Possible prior art [Was: Patent concerns] References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:46:02 -0500, Tom \"spot\" Callaway wrote: > Hi folks, > > I hate for my first post to this mailing list to be a depressing one, > but I need to pass along some bad news. > > Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora > which meet the following criteria: > > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > crosses that point or line, and gets points. > Anybody out there can lay your hands on a copy of Easy Guitar for the Commodore 64 by DJ Software, Circa 1986-1989 >From memory it includes such a game with the fret positions mapped to the keyboard. David Mohring -We know where the skeletons are buried,and who buried them. From dev at atshop3d.com Sat Jan 19 10:42:04 2008 From: dev at atshop3d.com (Sam Arthur Allen) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:42:04 +1000 Subject: Patent concerns Message-ID: <20080119204204.75f2a6d5@fluxbuntu-desktop> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:09:58 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway" wrote: > No, the patent is pretty darned specific. Its "targets moving in a > straight line" to a "predetermined point or line", and the player > having to hit a button at that precise point or line to get points. > If you're shooting the target, doesn't apply. If there is cursor > motion involved, doesn't apply. What a crock of @#$%, I've seen this been done a few times. "Parappa the Rapper" on PS1 from 1995 comes to mind, it does *exactly* what the above paragraph states. Also, the Amiga was flooded with synth-based games due to its audio processing power for its time. On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:33:19 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway" wrote: > The primary patent of concern is US 6347998, held by Konami. Just read that patent at: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6347998.html and said in its header: > Game system and computer-readable recording medium > US Patent Issued on February 19, 2002 If that patent really does applies from 2002 onwards _only_, is "Parappa the Rapper" from circa 1995 enough prior art? --Sam From tcallawa at redhat.com Sat Jan 19 15:48:58 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:48:58 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <20080119204204.75f2a6d5@fluxbuntu-desktop> References: <20080119204204.75f2a6d5@fluxbuntu-desktop> Message-ID: <1200757738.7579.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 20:42 +1000, Sam Arthur Allen wrote: > If that patent really does applies from 2002 onwards _only_, is > "Parappa the Rapper" from circa 1995 enough prior art? It looks like one example of prior art. Motivated individuals should talk to: http://www.pubpat.org/Contact.htm ~spot From seg at haxxed.com Sat Jan 19 22:56:55 2008 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:56:55 -0600 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <20080119204204.75f2a6d5@fluxbuntu-desktop> References: <20080119204204.75f2a6d5@fluxbuntu-desktop> Message-ID: <1200783416.20890.54.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 20:42 +1000, Sam Arthur Allen wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:09:58 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway" wrote: > > No, the patent is pretty darned specific. Its "targets moving in a > > straight line" to a "predetermined point or line", and the player > > having to hit a button at that precise point or line to get points. > > If you're shooting the target, doesn't apply. If there is cursor > > motion involved, doesn't apply. > > What a crock of @#$%, I've seen this been done a few times. > "Parappa the Rapper" on PS1 from 1995 comes to mind, it does *exactly* > what the above paragraph states. The Parappa "targets" did not move. They were static, and used a moving cursor: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1592483888067882190 So no this particular patent doesn't apply, so it isn't prior art. Also possibly notable is you were rewarded bonus points for ad-libbing more advanced raps than the game requires, as the person playing demonstrates. :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dev at atshop3d.com Sun Jan 20 06:07:42 2008 From: dev at atshop3d.com (Sam Allen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:07:42 +1000 Subject: Patent concerns Message-ID: <20080120160742.47a53995@fluxbuntu-desktop> Hey Callum, something just hit me like a brick: You asked: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:56:55 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 14:46 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined > > point or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as > > the target(s) crosses that point or line, and gets points. > > You've got to be shitting me. > > ... So, how about if the "targets" stay still and the cursor moves? I > think there's assloads of prior art on that... And replied to one of my replies with: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:56:55 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 20:42 +1000, Sam Arthur Allen wrote: > > What a crock of @#$%, I've seen this been done a few times. > > "Parappa the Rapper" on PS1 from 1995 comes to mind, it does > > *exactly* what the above paragraph states. > > The Parappa "targets" did not move. They were static, and used a > moving cursor: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1592483888067882190 > > So no this particular patent doesn't apply, so it isn't prior art. Great, Parappa has a different "timeline" than Guitar Hero's - I'm happy with that. Now, what games were under this patent concern? --Sam From wayward4now at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 02:11:30 2008 From: wayward4now at gmail.com (Ric Moore) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:11:30 -0500 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1200512762.11327.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20080116204248.GA890@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1200795090.3403.5.camel@iam.wayward4now.net> On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 15:42 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:02PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > > Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora > > which meet the following criteria: > > A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point > > or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) > > crosses that point or line, and gets points. > > Seriously? I wrote an AppleBasic game in fourth grade (1984) that did that. I hope you sue the pants off of someone. -- ================================================ My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar http://www.wayward4now.net <---down4now too ================================================ From freegamerblog at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 16:39:12 2008 From: freegamerblog at gmail.com (Free Gamer) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:39:12 +0000 Subject: Dreamchess Message-ID: <755b37e70801220839m5cad100cr73205e4e37df1147@mail.gmail.com> This would be a good chess client to include in Fedora: http://www.dreamchess.org/ - C -- Free Gamer - free & open source games list & commentary http://freegamer.blogspot.com/ From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 04:59:55 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:59:55 -0500 Subject: APC Magazine's top 5 FOSS game list Message-ID: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> http://apcmag.com/7890/best_open_source_games Still missing 2 on there... -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Fri Jan 25 07:22:24 2008 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:22:24 +0100 Subject: APC Magazine's top 5 FOSS game list In-Reply-To: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <47998E30.7020600@hhs.nl> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > http://apcmag.com/7890/best_open_source_games > > Still missing 2 on there... > Yes, smc is too much like the original (which is why its on the won't package list), ufoai has license issues with the datafiles, we could use autodownloader, but upstream is working on fixing the license issues, so I would reather wait for that. Regards, Hans From freegamerblog at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 13:07:12 2008 From: freegamerblog at gmail.com (Free Gamer) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:07:12 +0000 Subject: APC Magazine's top 5 FOSS game list In-Reply-To: <47998E30.7020600@hhs.nl> References: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> <47998E30.7020600@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <755b37e70801250507t2bf2e9e5y58b769d31695d9e6@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 25, 2008 7:22 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > http://apcmag.com/7890/best_open_source_games > > > > Still missing 2 on there... > > Yes, smc is too much like the original At what point is the line drawn? What about Freeciv which is a near-remake of Civ2? SMC has had data issues in the past and I suspect may still have a bit of copied data in there which should be removed before inclusion is considered. But to label a clone/remake "too much like the original"? As long as nothing is copied directly, it's just another remake. Surely the standard is already set (Freeciv etc). - C From tcallawa at redhat.com Fri Jan 25 15:46:36 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:46:36 -0500 Subject: APC Magazine's top 5 FOSS game list In-Reply-To: <755b37e70801250507t2bf2e9e5y58b769d31695d9e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> <47998E30.7020600@hhs.nl> <755b37e70801250507t2bf2e9e5y58b769d31695d9e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1201275996.4933.12.camel@dhcp83-155.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 13:07 +0000, Free Gamer wrote: > On Jan 25, 2008 7:22 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > > http://apcmag.com/7890/best_open_source_games > > > > > > Still missing 2 on there... > > > > Yes, smc is too much like the original > > At what point is the line drawn? What about Freeciv which is a > near-remake of Civ2? > > SMC has had data issues in the past and I suspect may still have a bit > of copied data in there which should be removed before inclusion is > considered. But to label a clone/remake "too much like the original"? > As long as nothing is copied directly, it's just another remake. > Surely the standard is already set (Freeciv etc). I drew the line, at SMC. 1. When you use the word "Maryo" in your name, you're blatantly infringing on Nintendo's trademark. This is far worse than the "Freeciv" "Civilization" situation. 2. Nintendo has the copyrights for the game character designs found in the "Mario" series. SMC is using them without permission. 3. Nintendo aggressively goes after "clones", see "Great Giana Sisters". So, to repeat what I've said in the past: 1. SMC would need to rename itself "Awesome Plumber Adventure" or something non-infringing. 2. None of the artwork can reflect the copyrighted game character designs from the Mario series. This would require a lot of artistic creativity, but it is certainly possible. or... 3. Get permission, in writing, from Nintendo, to use that name and their copryighted game character designs. ~spot From sanjith.warrier at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 16:10:32 2008 From: sanjith.warrier at gmail.com (R Sanjith) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:40:32 +0530 Subject: APC Magazine's top 5 FOSS game list In-Reply-To: <1201275996.4933.12.camel@dhcp83-155.boston.redhat.com> References: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> <47998E30.7020600@hhs.nl> <755b37e70801250507t2bf2e9e5y58b769d31695d9e6@mail.gmail.com> <1201275996.4933.12.camel@dhcp83-155.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: yeah seems like a valid explanation to me rgds sanjith On Jan 25, 2008 9:16 PM, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > > On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 13:07 +0000, Free Gamer wrote: > > On Jan 25, 2008 7:22 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > > > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > > > http://apcmag.com/7890/best_open_source_games > > > > > > > > Still missing 2 on there... > > > > > > Yes, smc is too much like the original > > > > At what point is the line drawn? What about Freeciv which is a > > near-remake of Civ2? > > > > SMC has had data issues in the past and I suspect may still have a bit > > of copied data in there which should be removed before inclusion is > > considered. But to label a clone/remake "too much like the original"? > > As long as nothing is copied directly, it's just another remake. > > Surely the standard is already set (Freeciv etc). > > I drew the line, at SMC. > > 1. When you use the word "Maryo" in your name, you're blatantly > infringing on Nintendo's trademark. This is far worse than the "Freeciv" > "Civilization" situation. > > 2. Nintendo has the copyrights for the game character designs found in > the "Mario" series. SMC is using them without permission. > > 3. Nintendo aggressively goes after "clones", see "Great Giana Sisters". > > So, to repeat what I've said in the past: > > 1. SMC would need to rename itself "Awesome Plumber Adventure" or > something non-infringing. > 2. None of the artwork can reflect the copyrighted game character > designs from the Mario series. This would require a lot of artistic > creativity, but it is certainly possible. > > or... > > 3. Get permission, in writing, from Nintendo, to use that name and their > copryighted game character designs. > > ~spot > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-games-list mailing list > Fedora-games-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dev at atshop3d.com Sun Jan 20 01:24:39 2008 From: dev at atshop3d.com (Sam Arthur Allen) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:24:39 +1000 Subject: Patent concerns In-Reply-To: <20080119204204.75f2a6d5@fluxbuntu-desktop> References: <20080119204204.75f2a6d5@fluxbuntu-desktop> Message-ID: <20080120112439.1c791c90@fluxbuntu-desktop> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:56:55 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 20:42 +1000, Sam Arthur Allen wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:09:58 -0500, Tom "spot" Callaway" wrote: > > > No, the patent is pretty darned specific. Its "targets moving in a > > > straight line" to a "predetermined point or line", and the player > > > having to hit a button at that precise point or line to get > > > points. If you're shooting the target, doesn't apply. If there is > > > cursor motion involved, doesn't apply. > > > > What a crock of @#$%, I've seen this been done a few times. > > "Parappa the Rapper" on PS1 from 1995 comes to mind, it does > > *exactly* what the above paragraph states. > > The Parappa "targets" did not move. They were static, and used a > moving cursor: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1592483888067882190 > > So no this particular patent doesn't apply, so it isn't prior art. > Also possibly notable is you were rewarded bonus points for > ad-libbing more advanced raps than the game requires, as the person > playing demonstrates. :) Glad to be corrected :) but I still can't help but be annoyed that I have seen this thing been done before from the Amiga/C=64 era. > > Attachment: signature.asc > Description: This is a digitally signed message part From freegamerblog at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 18:30:53 2008 From: freegamerblog at gmail.com (Free Gamer) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:30:53 +0000 Subject: APC Magazine's top 5 FOSS game list In-Reply-To: References: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> <47998E30.7020600@hhs.nl> <755b37e70801250507t2bf2e9e5y58b769d31695d9e6@mail.gmail.com> <1201275996.4933.12.camel@dhcp83-155.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <755b37e70801251030t73c6375asb575c26f9fbec02f@mail.gmail.com> Indeed, good to know what the criteria is. :-) - C 2008/1/25 R Sanjith : > yeah seems like a valid explanation to me From tibbs at math.uh.edu Fri Jan 25 18:42:33 2008 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 25 Jan 2008 12:42:33 -0600 Subject: APC Magazine's top 5 FOSS game list In-Reply-To: References: <1201237195.29627.14.camel@ignacio.lan> <47998E30.7020600@hhs.nl> <755b37e70801250507t2bf2e9e5y58b769d31695d9e6@mail.gmail.com> <1201275996.4933.12.camel@dhcp83-155.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "RS" == R Sanjith writes: RS> yeah seems like a valid explanation to me rgds sanjith Note that I discussed all of this with upstream when they asked if their game could be included. - J<