ok fedora-list-request@redhat.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Send fedora-list mailing list submissions to fedora-list@redhat.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fedora-list-request@redhat.com You can reach the person managing the list at fedora-list-owner@redhat.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of fedora-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: list subject (Tim) 2. Re: list subject (Tim) 3. Re: Problem with random disks mount sequence (Tim) 4. Re: SELinux enforcing, an external ntfs-3g mount, Samba and Fedora 8 (Tim) 5. Re: raid1 (Les Mikesell) 6. Re: hald/haldaemon cpu usage (John Wendel) 7. Re: link-local (Tim) 8. Re: Re: Re: F8 Network Woe (Tim) 9. Re: Why cant I make my laptop ethernet cards recognise 10Mbs? (Tim) 10. Re: list subject (Les Mikesell) 11. Re: Stupid bash question (Tony Nelson) 12. Re: access ipod files? (Tim) 13. Re: access ipod files? (Tim) 14. Re: It Works fine... System lockups with F8 and Firefox (David L. Gehrt) 15. Re: Update problems! (Tim) 16. Re: [FC8] where does gdmsetup hide the "Welcome" text? (Tim) 17. Hello Everyone. (zeeshan nadeem) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:10:53 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: list subject To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197423653.2850.4.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 11:22 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote: > Doesn't that mean you have to jump around in the folders whenever a > new message comes in or you want to reply to something? I don't have > time for that. Oh cobblers! Unless you have a really crap client that's not a time consuming thing to do. It's far quicker to switch over to the Fedora folder to read all the new Fedora mail, minus the other stuff interspersed. Scrolling through an inbox with 300 new messages a day is time consuming, finding the broken apart parts of threads is time consuming, managing an inbox with 3479 messages sitting in is time consuming. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:13:09 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: list subject To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197423789.2850.5.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 16:48 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote: > Don't you still have to visit each folder if you actually want to read > the mail or even see the subjects? You still have to scroll through your entire inbox to view the list... -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:24:38 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: Problem with random disks mount sequence To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197424478.2850.10.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mikkel: >> were you booting with the USB drives plugged in? wwp: > Yes, as usually - this has never been a problem w/ FC5, /dev/sda was > always the internal disk. I, too, dislike the drive assignment shuffling. I really think that hda ought to have been kept for IDE, sda for SCSI, and we should have used some form of /dev/usb for USB. That way, you'd have clear and unambiguous ways to address the hardware, where you expect to find it. And you also have volume labelling for addressing some volume by name, no matter where or how it's attached. If you boot with your USB drives connected, but never boot *from* the USB ports, you could try altering your BIOS booting arrangements, so that it doesn't include the USB ports, or they're fallback rather than early choices. You'd expect, this way, that they're looked at later on, and the other drive gets the first designator (/dev/sda). -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:31:00 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: SELinux enforcing, an external ntfs-3g mount, Samba and Fedora 8 To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197424860.2850.17.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain Craig White: >>> Mount the disk with uid/gid that you want. Tim: >> Without some sort of additional user mapping between which user is which >> on Windows versus Linux, I can't see how you could avoid that. Craig White: > I don't understand your point. > > I know that a fat/vfat mount doesn't understand posix attributes and > they cannot be stored on the filesystem so the uid/gid is declared at > the time of mounting (or if undeclared, root:root because only root can > mount the filesystem unless designated otherwise, i.e. by hal or within > fstab). Ownership, not permissions. On Windows, users Tim, Fred, and Barney save their files, and their files are owned by themselves, with the Windows filing system knowing the association between files and particular users. Linux uses a different user identifier system. It can tell that *those* Windows files are owned by three different people. But without some mapping that says user 500 on Linux is Tim, and user X on Windows is the same Tim, and so on for the other users, there isn't a way for each users files to be owned by the same users on both systems. Dismounting and remounting the drive with the next user owning all the files is a mess, and useless for multi-user systems where there actually are multiple users using it at the same time. Removable media is a bigger pain. You can plug it into systems which have completely different users. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:01:34 -0600 From: Les Mikesell <LESMIKESELL@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: raid1 To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <475F40FE.5010404@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sam Varshavchik wrote: > tony.chamberlain@lemko.com writes: > >> This is of course a more recent installation. >> >> I just found that in /etc/cron.daily there is a file with a script >> (directory name changed for confidentiality) >> >> cd /a/b/c/d >> find . -name '*log*' -exec rm -f {} \; >> >> So if there is no /a/b/c/d it will stay in whatever directory it is in >> (probably root). That is why like initlog, login_pam,so etc. >> have been removed. > > You're boned. Reinstall. And fire the wiseguy who wrote that script. Unless it was written 20+ years ago when /bin/sh used to exit on failed cd's unless in interactive mode. Now you need to cd somewhere || exit to avoid breakage. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:03:08 -0800 From: John Wendel <JOHN.WENDEL@METNET.NAVY.MIL> Subject: Re: hald/haldaemon cpu usage To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <475F415C.8020008@metnet.navy.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Konstantin Svist wrote: > John Wendel wrote: >> Konstantin Svist wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I'm curious about haldaemon - for some reason, it takes up 3-5% cpu >>> at all times on my computer. >>> >>> Why would it do that? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >> >> "service haldaemon stop" works good for me. >> >> You could run strace and figure out what stupid thing it's doing and >> file a bug report. >> > > Thanks John, > > I'm kind of wary of killing off daemons that might be necessary to keep > the system running, and I don't know exactly what this one does. > I *could* run strate, but decided to first ask if the problem is already > known (which is usually very likely) > > > > I never run haldaemon and my system works fine. You need it if you want to mount a USB device (or other hotplugable device). When I need it, I start it, let it work and then stop it again. My computer is slow (PIII) so I need all the cycles for myself. Here's all the daemons I run (this is a desktop, not a server). messagebus 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off network 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off sshd 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off Regards, John ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:34:38 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: link-local To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197425078.2850.22.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 22:55 +0100, Gijs wrote: > Not completely sure yet, but I would guess link-local would be your > local loopback (ie 127.0.0.1). No, link-local is the 169.254.x.y auto/random address scheme, for when there's no DHCP server and the machines pick random unique addresses for themselves, just so that they each have some IP address. See: Bonjour or ZeroConf It seems that Linux still has entries for it in the routing table, even if you're not currently using that addressing scheme. It's probably easier to leave them preset, so that no further configuration changes need making should something connect up using one of those addresses, or the local machine suddenly started using one, itself. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:41:03 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: Re: Re: F8 Network Woe To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197425463.2850.29.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain Aaron Konstam: >> Go to another machine and run dig on the contested ip address and find out >> what its name of the machine. You can also find out its machine address. Jonathan Allen: > # dig 192.168.1.6 > ; <<>> DiG 9.2.3 <<>> 192.168.1.6 > ;; global options: printcmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 21219 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 > > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;192.168.1.6. IN A > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > . 10240 IN SOA a.root-servers.net. nstld.verisign-grs.com. 2007121100 1800 900 604800 86400 > > ;; Query time: 34 msec > ;; SERVER: 158.152.1.58#53(158.152.1.58) > ;; WHEN: Tue Dec 11 16:05:44 2007 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 104 > > I am not sure what that has told me. Only that *your* DNS server doesn't know anything about that address (there was no "ANSWER SECTION"). This means nothing in the grand scheme of things (whether something is using that address, or not). IPs don't have to be registered in a DNS server. I'd first check if it were the machine, itself, that was thinking that IP was in use. Pull out the network cable, try "ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.6" (to manually assign that address to the box) and see if it still protests that the address is in use while it's not connected to any other equipment. If you get a complaint, now, you just have to fix this machine, and you can ignore the rest of your network. There's something vaguely familiar about this issue, with some sort of phantom lingering about, but I can't recall the details. I can't recall whether it was on this list, but searching through it for that error message might be worth it. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:45:12 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: Why cant I make my laptop ethernet cards recognise 10Mbs? To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197425712.2850.33.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:00 -0500, William Hooper wrote: > If it is indeed a cross-over cable, maybe the device is expecting a > straight through cable? The standard is a straight through cable for things that are supposed to be connected together (e.g. computer to a switch or hub) and cross-overs to things being directly connected together that would normally go through something else (e.g. computers directly together). I wouldn't expect any device to "expect" the wrong type of cable according to the *usual* ways of cabling things. Quite a few things will automatically accommodate using the wrong cable, but I wouldn't expect that sort of behaviour. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:21:29 -0600 From: Les Mikesell <LESMIKESELL@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: list subject To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <475F45A9.7040702@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Tim wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 11:22 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote: >> Doesn't that mean you have to jump around in the folders whenever a >> new message comes in or you want to reply to something? I don't have >> time for that. > > Oh cobblers! Unless you have a really crap client that's not a time > consuming thing to do. It's far quicker to switch over to the Fedora > folder to read all the new Fedora mail, minus the other stuff > interspersed. Why should I care whether I read one fedora message, then a Centos message or 2 fedora messages in a row? > Scrolling through an inbox with 300 new messages a day is time > consuming, finding the broken apart parts of threads is time consuming, > managing an inbox with 3479 messages sitting in is time consuming. I rarely scroll anywhere - the new messages are on top and I read down, mostly deleting as I go. And my mail client will reassemble a thread in the rare case that there are earlier ones that I'd need to make sense out of the most recent. I want the mailer to bring the messages to me instead of me having to go find them. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:22:27 -0500 From: Tony Nelson <TONYNELSON@GEORGEANELSON.COM> Subject: Re: Stupid bash question To: <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <P04330102C384EBA93151@[192.168.123.162]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:05 PM -0500 12/11/07, Joe Smith wrote: >Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: >> One thing that would probably help your understanding is that [ is >> actually a command. It is usually a shell built-in command, but it >> is also a command in /usr/bin, and is the same as the test command. >> ... > >Mmm, curious. I wonder why are they /not/ the same command? > >$ type [ test >[ is a shell builtin >test is a shell builtin >$ ls -li /usr/bin/{[,test} >1234416 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 31404 2007-12-05 08:25 /usr/bin/[ >1234972 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 29032 2007-12-05 08:24 /usr/bin/test > >I always thought that [ and test were links to the same binary. > >I guess disk blocks aren't as precious as they once were ;-) The reason seems weak to me, but test does not require a closing square bracket, while [ does, and: At 6:22 PM +0200 5/11/07, Stepan Kasal wrote: >Hi, > >On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 04:44:39PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: >> single square brackets, I thought "[" was a symlink to the >> coreutils "test" command, [..] > >AFAIK, it used to be hard link, not symlink. > >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 32168 Apr 17 13:48 /usr/bin/[ >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 29544 Apr 17 13:48 /usr/bin/test > >GNU Coding Standards now declare that the behaviour of binary >should not depend on its name. -- ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' <mailto:tonynelson@georgeanelson.com> ' <HTTP: www.georgeanelson.com /> ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:55:31 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: access ipod files? To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197426331.2850.38.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 14:18 -0500, Bob Goodwin wrote: > I don't know where he was plugging it in to charge it but obviously > it was a USB without power. The battery was dead! A lot of devices expect power from USB in a manner against the specs (wanting too much current without specifically asking for it, or wanting more than can be supplied, anyway). On some computers they'll accommodate, others will not and you'll not get enough current to run the device, and you can get random USB failures while you use your PC. You can get 5 Volt plugpacks that have a female USB connector, and that'll allow you to charge USB powered devices without a PC. If you're just playing an Ipod, and rarely changing the contents, that's more practical that running a PC just to charge its batteries. -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:59:20 +1030 From: Tim <IGNORED_MAILBOX@YAHOO.COM.AU> Subject: Re: access ipod files? To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <1197426560.2850.42.camel@bigblack.lan.cameratim.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 15:27 -0500, Bob Goodwin wrote: > Perhaps I don't have the right cable? You might want to tell the list exactly what model iPod you have. Different models used different schemes. Some had Firewire and USB connections, using one for power and one for data. You could just have a broken cable. There's four wires in USB, two power, two data. If a data wire broke but power didn't, you could see a device turn on, but not actually be usable. You could be trying to run it powered from your USB port where your USB port isn't able to supply enough current (try going through a powered hub, instead), you could have a wonky USB port on the computer (try a different port - my computer's front-panel ports connect through crap cables, they don't work well with high speed USB). -- [tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr 2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386 Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7. Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:32:49 -0800 From: "David L. Gehrt" <DLG@INANITY.NET> Subject: Re: It Works fine... System lockups with F8 and Firefox To: For users of Fedora <FEDORA-LIST@REDHAT.COM> Message-ID: <200712120232.lBC2Wn4P015382@mail.inanity.net> This is what happens when you try to assist Karl Larsen: > Around 12:29am on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 (UK time), Karl Larsen > scrawled: > > Steve your just a old man that is still pushing the really stupid > > idea that if it was not invented at Fedora it is crap. This binary === message truncated ===</BLOCKQUOTE> </mailto:tonynelson@georgeanelson.com> <div id="RTEContent">Best Regards,</div> <div> </div> <div> <div id="RTEContent">Rambod Kamaei (PhD)</div> <div>CCIE, CCNP, Linux Expert.</div> <div>Tel: +98 21 22643500 to 9</div> <div>Cell: +98 912 2185672</div></div> <hr size=1>Looking for last minute shopping deals? <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping"> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.</a>