<div> </div> <div> </div> <div> We should keep this site focussed on the technical areas; not on a political point. This site should drop any statements in reference to " why is fedora not free!. I will soon drop out of this site if the site administrator doesn't control this site. lets end this scarp and more on to more important subjects. </div> -----Original Message----- From: fedora-list-request@redhat.com To: fedora-list@redhat.com Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:00 pm Subject: fedora-list Digest, Vol 53, Issue 254 <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_95284d7f-2ab5-497e-bdf9-b1537c098ef5" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Send fedora-list mailing list submissions to <a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <a href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list" target="_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list</a> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <a href="mailto:fedora-list-request@redhat.com">fedora-list-request@redhat.com</a> You can reach the person managing the list at <a href="mailto:fedora-list-owner@redhat.com">fedora-list-owner@redhat.com</a> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of fedora-list digest..." Tod ay's Topics: 1. Re: a long rebuttal to the Linux-is-the-engine fallacy (Les) 2. RE: DNS Attacks (bruce) 3. Re: kde-4.1 coming soon to f9/updates-testing (Patrick O'Callaghan) 4. Re: kde-4.1 coming soon to f9/updates-testing (Patrick O'Callaghan) 5. Re: that old GNU/Linux argument (Antonio Olivares) 6. Re: kde-4.1 coming soon to f9/updates-testing (Craig White) 7. Re: F9 - cups - windows shared printer (Craig White) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:43:17 -0700 From: Les <<a href="mailto:hlhowell@pacbell.net">hlhowell@pacbell.net</a>> Subject: Re: a long rebuttal to the Linux-is-the-engine fallacy To: For users of Fedora <<a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1217083397.5857.3.camel@localhost.localdomain">1217083397.5857.3.camel@localhost.localdomain</a>> Content-Type: text/plain On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 09:44 -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > On Jul 26, 2008, Antonio Olivares <<a href="mailto:olivares14031@yahoo.com">olivares14031@yahoo.com</a>> wrote: > > > <a href="http://www.cmake.org/HTML/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cmake.org/HTML/index.html</a> > > > That one should suffice. > > Nope. It offers the features, and even in a desirable fashion, but it > doesn't preclude anyone from rewriting all the intelligence encoded in > configure.ac and Makefile.am into a format that cmake can understand. > And *that's* the huge task. Rewriting autoconf, automake and libtool, > in spite of big a large undertaking, pales on the face of dropping GNU > autotools code from all projects you might want to include in a > GNU-less distro. > > > If it does not, we will look for another one, but there have to be > > some out there :) > > Why? If Linux folks didn't bother rewriting a majority of their > operating system, because it was already implemented and readily > available in the GNU porject, why would they have bothered with > rewriting a much smaller piece of it? > Ah! and here's the rub... If it is truly free, and follows the intent, then this last paragraph is the key to debunking the whole thing about free software. If it is really free, why does this last paragraph belong in your argument? Regards, Les H ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:15:35 -0700 From: "bruce" <<a href="mailto:bedouglas@earthlink.net">bedouglas@earthlink.net</a>> Subject: RE: DNS Attacks To: "'For users of Fedora'" <<a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a>> Message-ID: <318601c8ef32$74903430$<a href="mailto:0301a8c0@tmesa.com">0301a8c0@tmesa.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" but if a bank employee is involved in the taking of funds, then there is somewhat of a trail. if the employee where to "change" the root dns servers, there would be some trail of this with the service that the bank uses for this setup.. this would be pretty easy to resolve, and the customer would have protection (although suffer a hassle) as the bank would back up the funds that were stolen... the issue of dns poisoning would also be resolved in a matter of time, but unfortunately, there might be multiple customers who are impacted... after thinking on this for awhile, the only thing that i can really think of to make a site "safe" is for you the customer to get your behind into a physical setup/location/building when you initially setup the online account!!! and then you should only use sites that incorporate multi-pass (two factor) security processes. (although this has it's own set of issues!!) for my own $0.02 worth, i find myself going to different parts of a site to see if i get links that return me back to where i should be prior to inserting my login information... but this implies that you know what a site's structure should be! -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com">fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com</a> [<a href="mailto:fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com%5DOn?">mailto:fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com]On</a> Behalf Of Mikkel L. Ellertson Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:01 AM To: For users of Fedora Subject: Re: DNS Attacks Björn Persson wrote: > Les Mikesell wrote: >> You aren't paranoid enough. What if the spoofer is also a system >> administrator at the bank with access to a copy of the real certificate >> that he installs on the machine he's tricked your dns into reaching - >> with the expected name that you'll still see. > > Then the bank has failed to protect its secret key. I expect banks to have > rigorous security routines to control who can access sensitive systems, and > to be able to check afterwards who did what. > > Could you elaborate on how whois guards against malicious system > administrators? Do you think security could be improved by having browsers > and other programs make whois queries automatically? > > Björn Persson > Also, if it is the a system administrator at the bank, what is to prevent him from just changing the real name servers? Or putting in a program on the bank's web server to capture the username and password when you enter them? Lets face it, if a bank employee wants to embezzle money from the bank, there is not much we as costumers can do about it. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:02:18 -0430 From: "Patrick O'Callaghan" <<a href="mailto:pocallaghan@gmail.com">pocallagha n@gmail.com</a>> Subject: Re: kde-4.1 coming soon to f9/updates-testing To: <a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1217086338.1539.25.camel@bree.homelinux.com">1217086338.1539.25.camel@bree.homelinux.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 18:30 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallaghan <at> gmail.com> writes: > > Well, naturally it's up to me, but I was hoping for some insight into > > the relationship between the various repos. I started using kde-redhat a > > few weeks back in order to get a preview of KDE 4.1, and it has gone > > pretty well all in all. What I'd like to know is if there'll be some > > kind of transition period (as happens between Rawhide and the next > > Fedora release) during which changes to kde-redhat are frozen and people > > decide whether to continue on the bleeding edge or return to the > > "official" updates. I don't know if I'm making myself clear here, but > > what I want to avoid is a situation where I block kde-redhat and > > suddenly find a lot of broken dependencies. > > Normally, the packages in the official updates will have newer EVRs > (Epoch-Version-Releases, i.e. what defines RPM's version ordering) than what's > currently in kde-redhat testing. Only some packages which stayed in kde-redhat > unstable will not be included in the official=2 0updates: cmake 2.6, kdepim 4.1, > and the alpha versions Amarok 2 and KOffice 2. I expect these to stay in > kde-redhat unstable. So you should not run into broken dependencies. OK, sounds good. However since I don't really want updates-testing for everything else (i.e. non KDE stuff) I may just wait till it goes to updates. poc ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:03:34 -0430 From: "Patrick O'Callaghan" <<a href="mailto:pocallaghan@gmail.com">pocallaghan@gmail.com</a>> Subject: Re: kde-4.1 coming soon to f9/updates-testing To: <a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1217086414.1539.27.camel@bree.homelinux.com">1217086414.1539.27.camel@bree.homelinux.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 13:55 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > Well, naturally it's up to me, but I was hoping for some insight into > > the relationship between the various repos. > > kde-redhat is a personal repo of mine. essentially the "rawhide of kde", where I sometimes put the latest kde bits built for fedora releases (like F-9, F-8) and/or other experimental stuff before it lands in official fedora updates or updates-testing. > > Any problems or conflicts between fedora and kde-redhat's stable/testing repos are considered a bug, and I will do my best to fix these asap. > > kd e-redhat's unstable repos are on-par with rawhide, experimental, sometimes solid (and sometimes not), expect breakage from time to time. Any field-testing or feedback provided here greatly helps the development process. > > In this particular case, I built and provided kde-4.0.99 (and earlier) pkgs prior to building anything officially for fedora. The aforementioned official pending updates will supercede (and upgrade) most everything from kde-redhat (stable/testing). kde-redhat/unstable will continue to track kde rawhide/F-10 development, so it'll continue to have stuff lacking in official F-9 updates, including (kde4) apps like amarok2, koffice2, digikam. Thanks for your efforts Rex. poc ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:45:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Antonio Olivares <<a href="mailto:olivares14031@yahoo.com">olivares14031@yahoo.com</a>> Subject: Re: that old GNU/Linux argument To: <a href="mailto:aoliva@redhat.com">aoliva@redhat.com</a>, <a href="mailto:lesmikesell@gmail.com">lesmikesell@gmail.com</a>, <a href="mailto:wayward4now@gmail.com">wayward4now@gmail.com</a> Cc: <a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:627174.30597.qm@web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com">627174.30597.qm@web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Alexandre Oliva wrote: > Err... I don't know how you got this idea that GNU was > supposed to be just a kernel. GNU is an entire opera ting system, that > Linux developers happened to borrow to complete theirs, because > all they had was a kernel. > This part can be argued. If there was no kernel, the GNU operating system would not have gone anywhere :(, and without the GNU tools, where would Linux be? But what ifs do not matter. What matters is where we are at the present. On the following link is a page which explains many strong points against the naming arguments <a href="http://www.topology.org/linux/lingl.html" target="_blank">http://www.topology.org/linux/lingl.html</a> I have also found a page in which it clearly explains some problems with the GPL <quote from <a href="http://www.topology.org/linux/gpl.html" target="_blank">http://www.topology.org/linux/gpl.html</a>> An analogy for the GPL would be the farmer who receives the gift of a GPL cow from a neighbour. The cow is completely free, but all of the milk from the cow must be given away for free, and all of the cow's calves, and the calves' calves, yea, even unto the thousandth generation, shall be given away for free. Now what kind of use is such a cow? Even if the bulls are non-GPL bulls, all of their offspring by GPL cows are controlled by the GPL licence. If you have a cow breeding programme and you develop a really excellent breed of cow, you must give the new breed of cows away for free if just one of the many ancestors of the superior cow was a=2 0GPL cow. The GPL cow is even more dangerous than patented GM crop seeds. The world envisioned by the GPL seems to be a perfect communism where all developers are like subsistence farmers; they must give away everything excess to their own immediate requirements for free to the community. </quote> This is quite interesting and the points are very well stated. I know that this will not change peoples minds, but it will make them aware of the other side of the story. Regards, Antonio ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:50:46 -0700 From: Craig White <<a href="mailto:craigwhite@azapple.com">craigwhite@azapple.com</a>> Subject: Re: kde-4.1 coming soon to f9/updates-testing To: For users of Fedora <<a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1217087447.25414.415.camel@lin-workstation.azapple.com">1217087447.25414.415.camel@lin-workstation.azapple.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 22:33 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > Craig White wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 21:20 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > >> A kde-4.1-rc2 update is queued for release to fedora 9's updates-testing > >> repository. It is meant for testing the upcoming KDE 4.1 release and to > >> filter last-minute bugs. Please help test and offer feedback > >> <a href="http://admin.fedoraproject.org/upda tes/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743" target="_blank">http://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743</a> > > ---- > > toss me a bone here... > > > > how can I enable fedora-testing and get these AND ONLY these packages? > > something like this? ... > > something close to that should work, yeah. > > See also: > <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Testing" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Testing</a> > ---- problem... # yum --enablerepo=updates-testing install kdesdk kdebase kdepimlibs sip qscintilla qgtkstyle kdeedu kdebindings soprano kdeplasma-addons kdegames kdeaccessibility compiz kdenetwork kdegraphics kdeadmin kdebase-runtime PyQt4 automoc phonon WebKit kde-filesystem kdeutils akonadi kdetoys kdemultimedia kdebase-workspace kdeartwork kdelibs qt << much clippage >> kdebindings-4.0.99-1.fc9.i386 from updates-testing has depsolving problems --> Missing Dependency: libqscintilla2.so.2 is needed by package kdebindings-4.0.99-1.fc9.i386 (updates-testing) Error: Missing Dependency: libqscintilla2.so.2 is needed by package kdebindings-4.0.99-1.fc9.i386 (updates-testing) # yum --enablerepo=updates-testing search libqscintilla.so.2 Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, priorities, refresh-packagekit Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * updates-testing: mirror.lib.ucdavis.edu * livna: livna.cat.pdx.edu * fedora: <a href="http://ftp.uci.edu" target="_blank">ftp.uci.edu</a> * adobe-linux-i386: linuxdownload.adobe.com * updates: <a hr ef="http://ftp.uci.edu" target="_blank">ftp.uci.edu</a> Warning: No matches found for: libqscintilla.so.2 No Matches found Craig ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:53:19 -0700 From: Craig White <<a href="mailto:craigwhite@azapple.com">craigwhite@azapple.com</a>> Subject: Re: F9 - cups - windows shared printer To: For users of Fedora <<a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1217087599.25414.417.camel@lin-workstation.azapple.com">1217087599.25414.417.camel@lin-workstation.azapple.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 19:08 +1000, Andy Eager wrote: > OK, for anyone interested (and as a way of documenting the problem), I > finally got to the bottom of this issue. > It has absolutely nothing to do with users, groups, cups authentication, > Firefox or much else discussed in this thread!! > > I was using ipp as the printing protocol to talk to the printer:- A > Konica-Minolta MC2450. > ipp://printer_hostname:631/ipp > > Not sure whether the problem is with CUPS implementation of ipp or the > printer itself, but if I change to JetDirect > (socket://printer_hostname), then everything works just fine. > > Now for the gory details: > > * printers.conf is setup initially without the AuthInfoRequired line > (which is the same AuthInfoRequired none) > * When I try to print I get the=2 0following: > E [25/Jul/2008:17:20:53 +1000] [Job 1] Unable to get job 1997 > attributes (client-error-not-authorized)! > I [25/Jul/2008:17:20:53 +1000] Saving printers.conf... > E [25/Jul/2008:17:20:53 +1000] PID 5314 (/usr/lib/cups/backend/ipp) > stopped with status 2! > D [25/Jul/2008:17:20:53 +1000] [Job 1] File 0 is complete. > I [25/Jul/2008:17:20:53 +1000] [Job 1] Backend returned status 2 > (authentication required) > * When cupsd saves printers.conf, it decides (incorrectly) that > authentication is required and inserts the AuthInfoRequired negotiate > line into printers.conf > > For any cups developers reading this, here's the code that does this > from job.c: (which I believe is semantically incorrect) > if ((attr = cupsGetOption("auth-info-required", num_attrs, attrs)) != NULL) > { > cupsdLogMessage(CUPSD_LOG_ERROR, "WOULD BE SETTING attribute > %s", attr); > // cupsdSetAuthInfoRequired(job->printer, attr, NULL); > cupsdSetPrinterAttrs(job->printer); > cupsdSaveAllPrinters(); > } > The first line is me wanting to see this event in the log file > The second line is me commenting out the change to AuthInfoRequired. > > When I run this modified version of cups, I still see same output in the > log file, but the job does print (as d o any subsequent jobs) and there > is no change made to printers.conf. > > Anyway, that's the full story. > I now know the anatomy of cups way more than I ever wanted to! ---- did you want to add that to the bugzilla entry I started or should I reference? also, for the record, I never set up the printer as ipp but only as a connection to windows shared printer (smb://) but perhaps the code is similar there Craig ------------------------------ -- fedora-list mailing list <a href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</a> <a href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list" target="_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list</a> End of fedora-list Digest, Vol 53, Issue 254 ******************************************** </tt></pre> </div>  <div id='u8CABD823C3DEC61-834-228D' class='aol_ad_footer'><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. <A title="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" href="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" target="_blank">Get the TMZ Toolbar Now</A>! </div>