<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8"> <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="GtkHTML/3.6.2"> </HEAD> <BODY> On Thu, 2005-06-23 at 20:09 -0400, Jeremy Hogan wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <PRE> On 6/23/05, Tom Adelstein <<A HREF="mailto:adelste@yahoo.com">adelste@yahoo.com</A>> wrote: > That's an interesting and almost compelling statement of why you want > our research studies. The data exists Where? Is it public? > and you can use the same sampling > techniques Which were? Are those publicly available? > interview the same people, sign the same contracts, write > the whitepapers and sell your services to the same people we do. This is off point. Wasn't your point that we reject ideas and information? I've seen nothing but requests for the information. I know who you are, and so does Google. And I don't question your credentials. You don't need them if you have the data. > I'm not here representing Ubuntu or OpenSolaris or anyone. I considered > contributing to this project. But after sitting back and watching, I > don't see any way you will accomplish anything. The good news about an open community is that the door swings both ways. You are free to watch it flame from afar, and then everyone on this thread will know that you told us so. You will have those credentials to us. >First because you are > not supportable and definitely not coachable. I could walk into any forum, except Utopiabuntu I guess, and level that same compaint. First I need to find one full of people who have been waiting so long for this, that they have cut to the chase and can't take anymore vague or (so far) unsibstantiated statements of purpose or direction. > Do you know the difference between a jerk and an enlightened person? No. Oh, I think I know this one. It's a trick question. The jerk is the one who calls an entire list full of people he's never met, spoken to, or seen a post from jerks - based on a couple of posts he may have misunderstood? Or should I scold you for even asking me such a question? How dare you doubt my knowledge of asses and holes! > OK. A jerk doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. An > enlightened person doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground but > he knows it. I know neither where this thread's ass (the data) is or the whole in the ground (the research techniques). So I can't tell them apart, but at least I know it. I still feel like there's something to be learned if we find either. > You chaps don't know it and it might not matter if you did because you > are not comfortable in the space of "not knowing" and being willing to > see what's out there without dragging your conclusions, beliefs, > rationalizations, excuses and all that mental crap into everything. I saw several requests for the numbers, which I didn't take as questioning the validity. But I know a bit about Jef and Seth, so I know they care more about the facts than the conjecture. You have to have seen the same funded studies we've seen, and you know like we know that data can be spun. > I gave you a very succinct and clear example of a community that's > working But not to what extent, and nothing as to why. Is the Sun blueprint publicly available? If all of this was work for hire, that you cannot share, what you could easily contribute if you were still interested is where to begin in sweeping this data up ourselves. Assuming the best way to build a community is by training everyone to do everything, instead of capitalizing on a member's given strengths. >and you ask for my credentials and scatter charts. ...and the stats, and the methodology...or a link, or something. Like I said, I know who you are, and I don't doubt your integrity nor do I suspect you of shilling for another project, and I would still love to know what sites/stats/metrics/methodology you are using. I believe Ubuntu has a thriving community and install base. I'd love to see that (and any other) project baselined and tracked in a consistent fashion. I don't do that for a living, so I need help. That what a community offers, right? That's why we don't tell sysadmins with Nvidia trouble to go by a book on hacking the kernel before they ask for help. I'm not big on my Hindu parables, but I have heard this one "Lead by example." --jeremy -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list <A HREF="mailto:Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com">Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list">http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list</A> </PRE> </BLOCKQUOTE> my goodness, my first day here, but I understand this is a little out of the ordinary for this list. one thing I would have to point out is that Ubuntu is about the fastest branded product on the market since like the 30's or something, I don't have the stats here... anyway, unless we coalesce and find direction then we are twisting in the wind. Fedora has a huge user base, but I know personally of many defections to Ubuntu in the last few weeks, just from friends of mine, so it's not a broad sample, but I believe indicative. I will start a new thread introducing myself in a few minutes, but I wanted to comment on this, my first fedora-marketing list reception. thanks. G <TABLE CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="0" WIDTH="100%"> <TR> <TD> -- W. Guy Thomas <<A HREF="mailto:mrguytx@austin.rr.com">mrguytx@austin.rr.com</A>> </TD> </TR> </TABLE> </BODY> </HTML>