<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>Il giorno 21/ago/06, alle ore 17:24, Rahul ha scritto:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Nicola Losito wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/06/08/17/177220.shtml">http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/06/08/17/177220.shtml</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Does the interview actually ends up with Max saying "Which is why I think a lot of the OSS "religious wars" don't make a lot of sense." ??</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If so i am a bit disappointed :-)</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">You want religious wars? Dont be silly.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Uhm, let me clarify ... I was disappointed by the sudden end of the interiew, not for the missed useless whatever war :-)</DIV><DIV>Having clarified that ..... let me move on the rest.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Please keep in mind that english is not my first language, and probably i am driven to use some "weird" way of saying things (not to mention grammar mistakes). So keeping in mind that i like and endorse the work in Fedora i ask my reader to try to catch my points ....</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">That's because on the last question "Have you tried Ubuntu yourself? Is there, in your opinion, something Ubuntu does better than Fedora?" Max didn't actually answered.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">He cites the main site/wiki efficency and the fist second impression of a missing NetworkManager but then he omits to talk about the obvious better "dektop experience" for Ubuntu users (fade effects, fast user switching, general graphical consinstency [1]).</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I cant see any obviously better desktop experience. I suppose Max Spevack didnt see one that is worth pointing out as a major difference either.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>This is a very "tech" way to say things. Like man pages, if something is worth mention it's written in the man page.</DIV><DIV>Unfortunately I see/feel life being different than that.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>When you install and run Ubuntu you got enabled a bunch of features that doesn't make feel the user on his own (Gnome sounds enabled, when i'm supposed to enter the sudo password the screen goes dark leaving only the appropriate window "illuminated" and some other fancier - yes, useless, but fancier things).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Generally i see that "heavy" or "experienced" Linux user doesn't bother too much with this kind of thematic (like me with video proprietary drivers, never installed them, never got to see if i could get a benefit from them). For sure in 10 minutes the 90% of FC contributor can take them on at will. But then again the average Joe feels these fancier tricks enabled and running since the first boot like "attention to details" (again, seeing people's reaction around me).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The implementation of fast user switching has problems with multi user terminals so its hidden by default in the menu. You can of course enable it yourself if the problems dont affect your usage.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=175178">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=175178</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I already had an answer some time ago with this topic, but haven't go the time to read more and then try to make it work for myself. My point is that the other distro i enjoy "testing" have it and reading the answer "it's in bugzilla since $date" doesn't make nice impression. </DIV><DIV>It's clear that's a minor "bug", but i can see many people with always on internet connection leaving their session opened, locking their session when they're not at home and leaving a login screen available to parents for a second graphical use of the machine. Comfortable feature, if you think.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Ubuntu was born to be, and it's still developed to be,<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>"Linux for Human Beings".<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I dont adore that quote. What are we developing Fedora for if not human beings or are people who use other distributions aliens? ;-)</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Sometimes seems so .... have you ever tried using yum, with 3rd parties repos enabled, on a 56k pay-per-time line ? ?</DIV><DIV>Back when i was one of those FC seemed to me a distro for privileged aliens with fast/flat connections.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If we want to appeal more and more people, and to get them come to use we should think new strategies, the couple that comes to my mind are (i think) near the actual Board goals (as stated in the interview):</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- the Core + Extras + Community package separation should be clearly resolved.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The Ubuntu or Mandriva approach is (to me) the winner: core (as universe or main) + extras (multiverse or contrib) + jpackage (java related) + PLF/non-free and STOP. No more livna/rpmforge dualism, nor a dozen self referring repo for a specific task (each one on his server)</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Core+Extras universe similar to other distributions already exist. Jpackage is already a common repository. Livna exists as a third party repository since Fedora does not support or include non-free software within the distribution.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Here i could make a mistake but:</DIV><DIV>- <A href="http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components">http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components</A></DIV><DIV>it's clear in the division of what's "ubuntu" or "canonical" and what's not and also ...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">What we are doing is moving is *away* from the model of multiple repositories into a single unified repository. Not dozens. Not even two. Just one single repository. Of course every distribution has third party repositories and we cant nor do we need to do anything about that.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>3rd party repo are natural in our free software world, everyone has different needs and preferences. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>What i find "insane" {meaning not healthy, not referring to the crazy meaning} is the actual separation in Extras (which thanks to God and all the good people out there is growing each and every day in package number) and then the "Two Towers" of Livna "vs" dag-dries-freshrpms world and the experiences coming from a partial use of them or worst an "enabled=1" of all of them.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Fedora Project should speak loud on this inconsistency (for the record i have 14 different repositories in my yum.repos.d, some enabled some not, and i do not think it's easy to get the reason of this to the "non introduced").</DIV></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>These are part of the "problems" i have to talk to friends online (and not), also in my LUG, when referring to why choose Fedora distribution for installation, so these are topic i'm interested to study in my little and fragmented spare time.<DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>-- </DIV><DIV>Nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. Losito</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><A href="http://www.koolinus.net">http://www.koolinus.net</A></DIV><DIV><A href="http://koolinus.wordpress.com">http://koolinus.wordpress.com</A></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>