<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> I basically think we keep going back to the idea of catering to the newest of users without bothering to explain as much as possible why Fedora does it this way, instead of looking to and asking the users to realize that the way they've thought about computers and the software they use isn't as simple and easy as it really is, and thus ask them to learn, do some research, and perhaps change the way they think. On a lot of the earlier arguements, which I have been reading through. Fedora out-of-the-box provides NOTHING but FREE AND OPEN AND LEGAL software. It stays like that until it hits the DVD/CD drive of the user. After that, it's up to the user to install what codecs, libraries, software, etc they want. There are people out there who do their best to encourage sticking to just the FOSS stuff for that, but there are ways out there to get them, and people who will give some bit of help. After that, it's up to each user to actually go through with it. If people want nothing but easy 1-click installation for all the proprietary formats they want, then maybe Fedora isn't for them. Jonathan Roberts wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:3263b11b0802230815r6f444137j11c06d5d3840d6a5@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">We fix the problem by standing here and reminding people that Europe is not immune to this threat. It's real damn easy to pretend the problem is just a US issue...its not. Its a looming legal issue everywhere. We don't win long term by ignoring it. We'll have this same discussion every single release cycle.. and I'm okay with that. Patents are the biggest problem facing the open source ecosystem, and I'd rather have Fedora stand here and be a beacon for rational, passionate, discussion on the issue, than to just side step the issue for the sake of collecting a few more users in our userbase. I do not need to beat another linux distribution in terms of users for Fedora to achieve is core goals of fostering open innovation. I need 'enough' users... i need 'enough' upstream developers.. i need 'enough' maintainers.. I need 'enough' triagers... I need 'enough' artists... I need 'enough writers...I need 'enough' translators.... and give them 'enough' open infrastructure by which to communicate as partners in the process of open innovation. What I don't need is proprietary software. I don't need to be greedy for Fedora to reach its prime objectives. I am perfectly okay with other distribution existing and being popular. The future of ALL linux distributions runs through what is happening as part of Fedora...and I'm perfectly happy with that. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> OK, how about we try and turn this thread into some positive energy!? What's been said, that Fedora is here to take a stand and to help try and change the legal issues that cause problems for those of us who want to be creative and share with each other, is very true. I believe that the majority of Fedora's contributing community are here and taking part because they support this view. Jef's also said that this conversation comes up during every release cycle - and even I've been around long enough to see that this is true - so we must be doing something wrong, somewhere, in communicating this part of our mission to the outside world and newer members of our community. The questions I now have are: * Where are we going wrong currently? * How can we make changes to improve this? The best selling point, imho, for free software is the freedom's that it affords us. Likewise, Fedora's strongest selling point is the stand it takes to help defend and make these freedoms available to anybody who wants them. So how can we promote this better? I might reply to my own thread in a while with my thoughts on this! Best wishes, Jon </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- ~Michael <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ridleytx.structed.net">http://ridleytx.structed.net</a> (for now) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://michaelbox.net">http://michaelbox.net</a> (eventually) </pre> </body> </html>