From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sat May 2 22:39:28 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:39:28 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea Message-ID: I had posted on fedora-devel mailing list about this idea a while ago, but the discussion didn't last long: http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-development/266281-adding-new-group-desktop-menu-fedora-studio.html In short, currently all our audio/video players/editors are cluttering the Multimedia group of the desktop menu. Since players and editors are very different in nature and Audio/Video creation software have their own target audience, I am proposing to list them under a different group in the desktop menu. This way both type of applications will become more accessible. I am primarily interested in Audio Creation software and currently we have enough packages to have our own group: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AudioCreation To achieve this we will need to modify the desktop files of our packages to add some category which will be picked up by the menu applets and place them in the Audio Creation group. I am planning to make a new feature draft page on Fedora wiki in the near future and present it to FESCo so that we can have a Fedora Studio by F-12. There are a few choices we need to make along the way: - Should we include Video creation applications in this group too? - What shall we call the group in the menu? Studio, Audio Creation, A/V Creation...? - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. Who would want to participate in this project? Please share your comments, opinions, ... Orcan From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sun May 3 21:55:14 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 14:55:14 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 18:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > I had posted on fedora-devel mailing list about this idea a while ago, > but the discussion didn't last long: > http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-development/266281-adding-new-group-desktop-menu-fedora-studio.html > > In short, currently all our audio/video players/editors are cluttering > the Multimedia group of the desktop menu. Since players and editors > are very different in nature and Audio/Video creation software have > their own target audience, I am proposing to list them under a > different group in the desktop menu. This way both type of > applications will become more accessible. > > I am primarily interested in Audio Creation software and currently we > have enough packages to have our own group: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AudioCreation > > To achieve this we will need to modify the desktop files of our > packages to add some category which will be picked up by the menu > applets and place them in the Audio Creation group. > > I am planning to make a new feature draft page on Fedora wiki in the > near future and present it to FESCo so that we can have a Fedora > Studio by F-12. Planet CCRMA has had this (a custom menu) for years. Otherwise the "Sound and Video" menu becomes pretty much unusable once you install all the available packages. It would be good if you could start from this package, perhaps? And/or maintain backwards compatibility, I'd be game to modify what I'm using to match... > There are a few choices we need to make along the way: > > - Should we include Video creation applications in this group too? > - What shall we call the group in the menu? Studio, Audio Creation, > A/V Creation...? Multimedia Creation? Content Creation? (too broad perhaps) > - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard > categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, > AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as > X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains > AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. Maybe get some inspiration for categories from the planetccrma-menus package in Planet CCRMA? > Who would want to participate in this project? Please share your > comments, opinions, ... Count me in... -- Fernando From oget.fedora at gmail.com Mon May 4 20:24:43 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 16:24:43 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 18:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > >> - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard >> categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, >> AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as >> X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains >> AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. > > Maybe get some inspiration for categories from the planetccrma-menus > package in Planet CCRMA? > Oh yes, I forgot about that package because I have been only installing individual packages from PlanetCCRMA since Fedora 4 or 5. Although that package actually *is* what I am talking about, it would be nicer to provide this classification at the Fedora level, so that packages from different repos don't end up at different groups which would be going in the exact opposite direction we want to go. I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. Cheers, Orcan From seg at haxxed.com Mon May 4 20:32:09 2009 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:32:09 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1218b5bc0905041332r4554ba1cm2f8a35f4f20a0fd7@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > Multimedia Creation? "Multimedia" is so 1992. My vote is for "Media Creation". From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Tue May 5 15:34:26 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 08:34:26 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1241537666.10785.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 16:24 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 18:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > > > >> - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard > >> categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, > >> AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as > >> X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains > >> AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. > > > > Maybe get some inspiration for categories from the planetccrma-menus > > package in Planet CCRMA? > > > > Oh yes, I forgot about that package because I have been only > installing individual packages from PlanetCCRMA since Fedora 4 or 5. > > Although that package actually *is* what I am talking about, it would > be nicer to provide this classification at the Fedora level, so that > packages from different repos don't end up at different groups which > would be going in the exact opposite direction we want to go. Of course, if it gets into Fedora proper then it is a major win for everybody. The suggestion/reminder is only for inspiration/backwards compatibility if possible. > I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status > once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. -- Fernando From walrus at bellsouth.net Wed May 6 19:48:28 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 15:48:28 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Mixer Wowes Message-ID: Hey all, I have Fedora 10 and a machine with a (please, no laughing or snickering) Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE 64 Value sound card and a Sigma Designs RealMagic Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. While the computer loads the ALSA drivers needed for both cards, the sound controls in GNOME only display the Hollywood+ controls, and nothing is available for the AWE 64. I have used the AWE 64 successfully in another computer before that already had another sound card in it, so I don't know what the deal is here. Help. Please? Peace, William From dtimms at iinet.net.au Wed May 6 22:15:25 2009 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 08:15:25 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> William M. Quarles wrote: > I have Fedora 10 and a machine with a (please, no laughing or > snickering) Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE 64 Value sound card and a > Sigma Designs RealMagic Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. While the > computer loads the ALSA drivers needed for both cards, As evidenced by ? I'm not sure which mod the awe needs, but check lsmod |grep snd Maybe fpaste.org your alsa-info results for others to check > the sound > controls in GNOME only display the Hollywood+ controls, and nothing is > available for the AWE 64. In gnome-volume-control I see Device entries for eg: CA0106 alsa Nvidia nforce2 alsa mixer oss playback CA PA playback NF PA capture CA PA capture NF PA capture-monitor CA PA capture-monitor NF PA and I need to change the device to control the appropriate card. Did you try alsamxixer, and alsaunmute ? DaveT. From walrus at bellsouth.net Thu May 7 02:08:37 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 22:08:37 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: David Timms wrote: > William M. Quarles wrote: >> I have Fedora 10 and a machine with a (please, no laughing or >> snickering) Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE 64 Value sound card and a >> Sigma Designs RealMagic Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. While the >> computer loads the ALSA drivers needed for both cards, > As evidenced by ? Uh, as evidenced by lsmod? I'm not a newbie if that's what you're implying. [root at quarlewm ~]# lsmod Module Size Used by udf 69388 0 fuse 49436 2 bridge 43796 0 stp 6148 1 bridge bnep 14848 2 sco 12932 2 l2cap 21504 3 bnep bluetooth 48608 5 bnep,sco,l2cap sunrpc 156052 3 ip6t_REJECT 7296 2 nf_conntrack_ipv6 15864 2 ip6table_filter 6400 1 ip6_tables 14736 1 ip6table_filter ipv6 230516 36 ip6t_REJECT,nf_conntrack_ipv6 dm_multipath 17164 0 uinput 10624 0 ppdev 10500 0 snd_sbawe 31180 0 snd_opl3_lib 12800 1 snd_sbawe adv717x 11684 1 snd_hwdep 10500 1 snd_opl3_lib snd_sb16_dsp 11648 1 snd_sbawe snd_sb_common 18432 2 snd_sbawe,snd_sb16_dsp snd_mpu401_uart 10368 1 snd_sbawe em8300 62380 1 snd_seq_dummy 6660 0 snd_rawmidi 22528 1 snd_mpu401_uart firewire_ohci 22532 0 snd_seq_oss 30364 0 firewire_core 35616 1 firewire_ohci snd_seq_midi_event 9600 1 snd_seq_oss crc_itu_t 5760 2 udf,firewire_core snd_seq 48576 5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event snd_seq_device 10124 6 snd_sbawe,snd_opl3_lib,snd_seq_dummy,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq radeon 237912 2 snd_pcm_oss 42496 0 snd_mixer_oss 16896 1 snd_pcm_oss snd_pcm 65924 4 snd_sbawe,snd_sb16_dsp,em8300,snd_pcm_oss ns558 8320 0 drm 158260 3 radeon floppy 51988 0 ata_generic 8452 0 snd_timer 22024 3 snd_opl3_lib,snd_seq,snd_pcm gameport 13452 2 ns558 pata_acpi 7680 0 snd_page_alloc 11016 1 snd_pcm i2c_algo_bit 8836 2 em8300,radeon 3c59x 40232 0 pcspkr 6272 0 parport_pc 25620 0 mii 8192 1 3c59x snd 50616 18 snd_sbawe,snd_opl3_lib,snd_hwdep,snd_sb16_dsp,snd_sb_common,snd_mpu401_uart,em8300,snd_seq_dummy,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer soundcore 9416 2 em8300,snd i2c_viapro 10772 0 i2c_core 21396 6 adv717x,em8300,radeon,drm,i2c_algo_bit,i2c_viapro pata_via 12036 0 parport 31956 2 ppdev,parport_pc pata_pdc2027x 11012 3 > I'm not sure which mod the awe needs, but check lsmod |grep snd > Maybe fpaste.org your alsa-info results for others to check The AWE 64 cards use snd-sbawe module, which can be easily checked on http://www.alsa-project.org/'s sound card matrix. I have no idea what you mean by fpaste.org, but alsa-info does seem like a good idea in this case; however it also unfortunately seems a little useless since it reveals a great deal of output, but I can't copy and paste any of it into this post, and the final message upon exiting the program says: Your ALSA information is located at Please inform the person helping you. So, uh, LOCATED AT big blank? Gee, thanks, stupid diagnostic program. >> the sound controls in GNOME only display the Hollywood+ controls, and >> nothing is available for the AWE 64. > In gnome-volume-control I see Device entries for eg: > CA0106 alsa > Nvidia nforce2 alsa > mixer oss > playback CA PA > playback NF PA > capture CA PA > capture NF PA > capture-monitor CA PA > capture-monitor NF PA > and I need to change the device to control the appropriate card. > > Did you try alsamxixer, and alsaunmute ? > > DaveT. > I am aware that you need to change the device to the appropriate card in the GNOME mixer. The Hollywood+ card is the only option available. [root at quarlewm ~]# alsamixer ALSA lib pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: Connection refused [root at quarlewm ~]# alsaunmute Unknown hardware: "SB AWE" "CTL1745" "CTL1745" "" "" Hardware is initialized using a guess method /lib/alsa/init/default:17: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to internal integer range /lib/alsa/init/default:23: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to internal integer range /lib/alsa/init/default:62: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to internal integer range /lib/alsa/init/default:84: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to internal integer range /lib/alsa/init/default:105: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to internal integer range /lib/alsa/init/default:143: unable to convert dB value '12dB' to internal integer range You're help is appreciated. Thanks, William From dtimms at iinet.net.au Thu May 7 08:40:00 2009 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 18:40:00 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> William M. Quarles wrote: > David Timms wrote: >> William M. Quarles wrote: >>> I have Fedora 10 and a machine with a (please, no laughing or >>> snickering) Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE 64 Value sound card and a >>> Sigma Designs RealMagic Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. While the >>> computer loads the ALSA drivers needed for both cards, >> As evidenced by ? > > Uh, as evidenced by lsmod? I'm not a newbie if that's what you're implying. Yes, but really was it an alsa util you used, lsmod or looking at /proc ? > [root at quarlewm ~]# lsmod I suggested grep snd so that we would get sound related modules, not the whole thing. It's just faster to look at the reduced version. I can however see all the modules seem to be linked up. >> I'm not sure which mod the awe needs, but check lsmod |grep snd >> Maybe fpaste.org your alsa-info results for others to check > > The AWE 64 cards use snd-sbawe module, which can be easily checked on > http://www.alsa-project.org/'s sound card matrix. Given that your asking for help, I probably won't be going searching sites to try to find appropriate info; I'll ask you to, or you could offer that info, and hence we know what you've tried. > I have no idea what you mean by fpaste.org One of many paste-bin web sites. These allow anonymous (you do need to supply an email address that is used to limit bad usage of the site) text upload site. It's really just a holder for bits of text from logs / compiles etc that would unnecessarily fill up mailing list user's email boxes. http://fpaste.org is targeted towards Fedora users. >, but alsa-info does seem like > a good idea in this case; however it also unfortunately seems a little > useless since it reveals a great deal of output, but I can't copy and > paste any of it into this post That's the point of the paste-bin, we don't really want large log files in our email boxes. > , and the final message upon exiting the program says: > > Your ALSA information is located at > Please inform the person helping you. > > So, uh, LOCATED AT big blank? Yeah, that didn't work out well: Your ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=23db04e4a7aeaa23357d00481f38b86638e90b21 Please inform the person helping you. $ Well it normally pastes to the alsa project pastebin, and gives the link (which worked for me). I'm guessing your internet/web access is normal, so perhaps this is further indication of something going wrong during alsa calls ? > Gee, diagnostic program. has a --help capability: alsa-info --help shows a debug option, that stores the large alsa log on your local disk so that you could manually put it on a pastebin, and post the link back here. >>> the sound controls in GNOME only display the Hollywood+ controls, and >>> nothing is available for the AWE 64. Bugger. > [root at quarlewm ~]# alsamixer > ALSA lib pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: > Connection refused If pulseaudio wasn't running, I think you would get a different error like: $ alsamixer E: socket-client.c: socket(): Address family not supported by protocol > alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: Connection refused > [root at quarlewm ~]# alsaunmute > Unknown hardware: "SB AWE" "CTL1745" "CTL1745" "" "" > Hardware is initialized using a guess method > /lib/alsa/init/default:17: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to > internal integer range Mine: $ alsaunmute Unknown hardware: "CA0106" "" "" "" "" Hardware is initialized using a guess method $ I guess aplay wont work either ? alsamixer -c0 ? ps aux|grep -E 'pad|pav|pul' I'm assuming playback is a problem as well, not just mixer control ? Do you have the option to try without the decoder card installed, for a giggle ? DaveT. From walrus at bellsouth.net Fri May 8 02:20:32 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 22:20:32 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: David Timms wrote: > William M. Quarles wrote: > > David Timms wrote: > >> William M. Quarles wrote: > >>> I have Fedora 10 and a machine with a (please, no laughing or > >>> snickering) Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE 64 Value sound card and a > >>> Sigma Designs RealMagic Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. While the > >>> computer loads the ALSA drivers needed for both cards, > >> As evidenced by ? > > > > Uh, as evidenced by lsmod? I'm not a newbie if that's what you're > implying. > Yes, but really was it an alsa util you used, lsmod or looking at /proc ? lsmod and /proc were used, and they were used before I wrote the original message, thank you. > > [root at quarlewm ~]# lsmod > I suggested grep snd so that we would get sound related modules, not the > whole thing. It's just faster to look at the reduced version. I can > however see all the modules seem to be linked up. I know you did make that suggestion. I had different purposes in mind, as it seems you inadvertently stumbled upon them. > >> I'm not sure which mod the awe needs, but check lsmod |grep snd > >> Maybe fpaste.org your alsa-info results for others to check > > > > The AWE 64 cards use snd-sbawe module, which can be easily checked on > > http://www.alsa-project.org/'s sound card matrix. > Given that your asking for help, I probably won't be going searching > sites to try to find appropriate info; I'll ask you to, or you could > offer that info, and hence we know what you've tried. > > > I have no idea what you mean by fpaste.org > One of many paste-bin web sites. These allow anonymous (you do need to > supply an email address that is used to limit bad usage of the site) > text upload site. It's really just a holder for bits of text from logs / > compiles etc that would unnecessarily fill up mailing list user's email > boxes. > http://fpaste.org is targeted towards Fedora users. Great, guess I'm a old fogey not up on the current trends. Then again, I did stop using GNU/Linux for about three or four years up until recently. I uploaded my alsa-info.txt to . > >, but alsa-info does seem like > > a good idea in this case; however it also unfortunately seems a little > > useless since it reveals a great deal of output, but I can't copy and > > paste any of it into this post > That's the point of the paste-bin, we don't really want large log files > in our email boxes. This stuff should all be in newsgroups anyway, that's why I am very glad to have found out about GMANE back around when Fedora Core 1 came out. > > , and the final message upon exiting the program says: > > > > Your ALSA information is located at > > Please inform the person helping you. > > > > So, uh, LOCATED AT big blank? > Yeah, that didn't work out well: > Your ALSA information is located at > http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=23db04e4a7aeaa23357d00481f38b86638e90b21 > > Please inform the person helping you. > $ > > Well it normally pastes to the alsa project pastebin, and gives the link > (which worked for me). I'm guessing your internet/web access is normal, > so perhaps this is further indication of something going wrong during > alsa calls ? Define normal. I'm using a docked Win XP Pro laptop right now as a router. > > Gee, diagnostic program. > has a --help capability: > alsa-info --help > shows a debug option, that stores the large alsa log on your local > disk so that you could manually put it on a pastebin, and post the link > back here. I know that it has a help function, but I did not know that the debug option left the log file that we were looking for behind on the hard drive. It would make more sense to me if they did both a local dump and an upload simultaneously. However, since you suggested, I tried the debug option. The program left the file behind, but not where the help function said that it would leave it behind, so basically there is a bug in the debug function, or a bug in the help function. depending on your point of view I suppose. Curiosity, alsa-info is offering to update itself, which I didn't do in hear of breaking any Fedora customizations. Did you do the update? Would you suggest that I do the update? > >>> the sound controls in GNOME only display the Hollywood+ controls, and > >>> nothing is available for the AWE 64. > Bugger. You betcha. > > [root at quarlewm ~]# alsamixer > > ALSA lib pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: > > Connection refused > If pulseaudio wasn't running, I think you would get a different error like: > $ alsamixer > E: socket-client.c: socket(): Address family not supported by protocol > > alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: Connection refused alsamixer decided to work today. ;-) Or maybe it was Pulseaudio, which is new to me. Same stuff as in the GNOME mixer, unfortuntely. > > [root at quarlewm ~]# alsaunmute > > Unknown hardware: "SB AWE" "CTL1745" "CTL1745" "" "" > > Hardware is initialized using a guess method > > /lib/alsa/init/default:17: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to > > internal integer range > Mine: > $ alsaunmute > Unknown hardware: "CA0106" "" "" "" "" > Hardware is initialized using a guess method > $ alsaunmute behaved the same as yesterday, pretty much. > I guess aplay wont work either ? It doesn't seem to... then again I don't have a file on hand for it to play. > alsamixer -c0 ? Wow, that's the spirit! So how do I get the GNOME sound stuff to recognize it? > ps aux|grep -E 'pad|pav|pul' > > I'm assuming playback is a problem as well, not just mixer control ? Well, now that alsamixer is working, yes, I am getting sound. Do you know how to fix the GNOME mixer issues? > Do you have the option to try without the decoder card installed, for a > giggle ? > > DaveT. > Yeah, I can give that a shot, I'll get back to you on it. But please, give me a reply to what I have written here already before I do. Thanks, William From walrus at bellsouth.net Fri May 8 02:52:50 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 22:52:50 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: William M. Quarles wrote: > David Timms wrote: >> I'm assuming playback is a problem as well, not just mixer control ? > > Well, now that alsamixer is working, yes, I am getting sound. Do you > know how to fix the GNOME mixer issues? > OK, unfortunately, the sound that I am getting from XMMS playing MP3 files is intermittently distorted, and is somehow actually coming from the decoder card instead of the sound card, then getting passed through to the sound card via the internal patch cable that I have installed. I checked this by using alsamixer to vary the volume on the sound card's CD input, and also by varying the volume on the decoder card. >> Do you have the option to try without the decoder card installed, for a >> giggle ? >> >> DaveT. >> > > Yeah, I can give that a shot, I'll get back to you on it. But please, > give me a reply to what I have written here already before I do. > > Thanks, > William > Haven't gotten around to that yet still, I'll probably try it tomorrow. From hedges at ieee.org Fri May 8 16:22:20 2009 From: hedges at ieee.org (Robert Hedges) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:22:20 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] unsubscribe Message-ID: <39b345390905080922m31400bb1o142403751b317521@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:00 AM, wrote: > Send Fedora-music-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-music-list at redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-music-list-request at redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-music-list-owner at redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fedora-music-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Mixer Wowes (William M. Quarles) > 2. Re: Mixer Wowes (William M. Quarles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 22:20:32 -0400 > From: "William M. Quarles" > Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes > To: fedora-music-list at redhat.com > Cc: planetccrma at ccrma.stanford.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > David Timms wrote: > > William M. Quarles wrote: > > > David Timms wrote: > > >> William M. Quarles wrote: > > >>> I have Fedora 10 and a machine with a (please, no laughing or > > >>> snickering) Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE 64 Value sound card and > a > > >>> Sigma Designs RealMagic Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. While the > > >>> computer loads the ALSA drivers needed for both cards, > > >> As evidenced by ? > > > > > > Uh, as evidenced by lsmod? I'm not a newbie if that's what you're > > implying. > > Yes, but really was it an alsa util you used, lsmod or looking at /proc ? > > lsmod and /proc were used, and they were used before I wrote the > original message, thank you. > > > > > [root at quarlewm ~]# lsmod > > I suggested grep snd so that we would get sound related modules, not the > > whole thing. It's just faster to look at the reduced version. I can > > however see all the modules seem to be linked up. > > I know you did make that suggestion. I had different purposes in mind, > as it seems you inadvertently stumbled upon them. > > > >> I'm not sure which mod the awe needs, but check lsmod |grep snd > > >> Maybe fpaste.org your alsa-info results for others to check > > > > > > The AWE 64 cards use snd-sbawe module, which can be easily checked on > > > http://www.alsa-project.org/'s sound card matrix. > > Given that your asking for help, I probably won't be going searching > > sites to try to find appropriate info; I'll ask you to, or you could > > offer that info, and hence we know what you've tried. > > > > > I have no idea what you mean by fpaste.org > > One of many paste-bin web sites. These allow anonymous (you do need to > > supply an email address that is used to limit bad usage of the site) > > text upload site. It's really just a holder for bits of text from logs / > > compiles etc that would unnecessarily fill up mailing list user's email > > boxes. > > http://fpaste.org is targeted towards Fedora users. > > Great, guess I'm a old fogey not up on the current trends. Then again, I > did stop using GNU/Linux for about three or four years up until recently. > > I uploaded my alsa-info.txt to . > > > >, but alsa-info does seem like > > > a good idea in this case; however it also unfortunately seems a little > > > useless since it reveals a great deal of output, but I can't copy and > > > paste any of it into this post > > That's the point of the paste-bin, we don't really want large log files > > in our email boxes. > > This stuff should all be in newsgroups anyway, that's why I am very glad > to have found out about GMANE back around when Fedora Core 1 came out. > > > > , and the final message upon exiting the program says: > > > > > > Your ALSA information is located at > > > Please inform the person helping you. > > > > > > So, uh, LOCATED AT big blank? > > Yeah, that didn't work out well: > > Your ALSA information is located at > > > http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=23db04e4a7aeaa23357d00481f38b86638e90b21 > > > > Please inform the person helping you. > > $ > > > > Well it normally pastes to the alsa project pastebin, and gives the link > > (which worked for me). I'm guessing your internet/web access is normal, > > so perhaps this is further indication of something going wrong during > > alsa calls ? > > Define normal. I'm using a docked Win XP Pro laptop right now as a router. > > > > Gee, diagnostic program. > > has a --help capability: > > alsa-info --help > > shows a debug option, that stores the large alsa log on your local > > disk so that you could manually put it on a pastebin, and post the link > > back here. > > I know that it has a help function, but I did not know that the debug > option left the log file that we were looking for behind on the hard > drive. It would make more sense to me if they did both a local dump and > an upload simultaneously. > > However, since you suggested, I tried the debug option. The program left > the file behind, but not where the help function said that it would > leave it behind, so basically there is a bug in the debug function, or a > bug in the help function. depending on your point of view I suppose. > > Curiosity, alsa-info is offering to update itself, which I didn't do in > hear of breaking any Fedora customizations. Did you do the update? Would > you suggest that I do the update? > > > >>> the sound controls in GNOME only display the Hollywood+ controls, > and > > >>> nothing is available for the AWE 64. > > Bugger. > > You betcha. > > > > [root at quarlewm ~]# alsamixer > > > ALSA lib pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: > > > Connection refused > > If pulseaudio wasn't running, I think you would get a different error > like: > > $ alsamixer > > E: socket-client.c: socket(): Address family not supported by protocol > > > alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: Connection > refused > > alsamixer decided to work today. ;-) Or maybe it was Pulseaudio, which > is new to me. Same stuff as in the GNOME mixer, unfortuntely. > > > > [root at quarlewm ~]# alsaunmute > > > Unknown hardware: "SB AWE" "CTL1745" "CTL1745" "" "" > > > Hardware is initialized using a guess method > > > /lib/alsa/init/default:17: unable to convert dB value '-20dB' to > > > internal integer range > > Mine: > > $ alsaunmute > > Unknown hardware: "CA0106" "" "" "" "" > > Hardware is initialized using a guess method > > $ > > alsaunmute behaved the same as yesterday, pretty much. > > > I guess aplay wont work either ? > > It doesn't seem to... then again I don't have a file on hand for it to > play. > > > alsamixer -c0 ? > > Wow, that's the spirit! So how do I get the GNOME sound stuff to > recognize it? > > > ps aux|grep -E 'pad|pav|pul' > > > > I'm assuming playback is a problem as well, not just mixer control ? > > Well, now that alsamixer is working, yes, I am getting sound. Do you > know how to fix the GNOME mixer issues? > > > Do you have the option to try without the decoder card installed, for a > > giggle ? > > > > DaveT. > > > > Yeah, I can give that a shot, I'll get back to you on it. But please, > give me a reply to what I have written here already before I do. > > Thanks, > William > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 22:52:50 -0400 > From: "William M. Quarles" > Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes > To: fedora-music-list at redhat.com > Cc: planetccrma at ccrma.stanford.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > William M. Quarles wrote: > > David Timms wrote: > > >> I'm assuming playback is a problem as well, not just mixer control ? > > > > Well, now that alsamixer is working, yes, I am getting sound. Do you > > know how to fix the GNOME mixer issues? > > > > OK, unfortunately, the sound that I am getting from XMMS playing MP3 > files is intermittently distorted, and is somehow actually coming from > the decoder card instead of the sound card, then getting passed through > to the sound card via the internal patch cable that I have installed. I > checked this by using alsamixer to vary the volume on the sound card's > CD input, and also by varying the volume on the decoder card. > > >> Do you have the option to try without the decoder card installed, for a > >> giggle ? > >> > >> DaveT. > >> > > > > Yeah, I can give that a shot, I'll get back to you on it. But please, > > give me a reply to what I have written here already before I do. > > > > Thanks, > > William > > > > Haven't gotten around to that yet still, I'll probably try it tomorrow. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-music-list mailing list > Fedora-music-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list > > > End of Fedora-music-list Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5 > ************************************************ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billcrawford1970 at gmail.com Fri May 8 16:27:26 2009 From: billcrawford1970 at gmail.com (Bill Crawford) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 17:27:26 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <39b345390905080922m31400bb1o142403751b317521@mail.gmail.com> References: <39b345390905080922m31400bb1o142403751b317521@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A045D6E.7050804@googlemail.com> Robert Hedges wrote: > > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:00 AM, > wrote: > > Send Fedora-music-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-music-list at redhat.com > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-music-list-request at redhat.com > 'nough said. From walrus at bellsouth.net Thu May 14 01:37:44 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:37:44 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> William M. Quarles wrote: > William M. Quarles wrote: >> David Timms wrote: > >>> I'm assuming playback is a problem as well, not just mixer control ? >> >> Well, now that alsamixer is working, yes, I am getting sound. Do you >> know how to fix the GNOME mixer issues? >> > > OK, unfortunately, the sound that I am getting from XMMS playing MP3 > files is intermittently distorted, and is somehow actually coming from > the decoder card instead of the sound card, then getting passed through > to the sound card via the internal patch cable that I have installed. I > checked this by using alsamixer to vary the volume on the sound card's > CD input, and also by varying the volume on the decoder card. alsamixer -c0 works intermittently, still no help with the GNOME mixer. Very annoying. >>> Do you have the option to try without the decoder card installed, for a >>> giggle ? >>> >>> DaveT. >>> >> >> Yeah, I can give that a shot, I'll get back to you on it. But please, >> give me a reply to what I have written here already before I do. >> >> Thanks, >> William >> > > Haven't gotten around to that yet still, I'll probably try it tomorrow. > Well, I got the PC to successfully boot once without the DVD decoder card, which did not help any of the problems. Then it locked up while attempting to start X the subsequent 10 times that I tried to boot. And once again, the computer is booting successfully, but I didn't change anything to make it start booting properly again. Once I got it going, alsamixer -c0 decided to work again, but I still can't get the card to show up in any GUI program in GNOME except for alsamixergui -c0, and that locks up when I attempt to make adjustments. David, or Fernando, or ANYBODY else out there, do you have any idea why this isn't working for me? Something smells funny about Pulseaudio, but I don't know enough about it to be able to say why. Peace, William From walrus at bellsouth.net Thu May 14 18:58:55 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:55 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4A0C69EF.8020605@bellsouth.net> TheOther wrote: >> David, or Fernando, or ANYBODY else out there, do you have any idea why >> this isn't working for me? Something smells funny about Pulseaudio, but >> I don't know enough about it to be able to say why. > > Hello William, > > You can check the PlanetCCRMA archives to see my thoughts and > experiences with PulseAudio. > > If you have Fedora 10 installed, remove PulseAudio. > > If you are using Fedora 7, 8, or 9, then upgrade to Fedora 10 so you > can remove PulseAudio. > > Good Luck, > Stephen. Sounds good to me, I don't even know what PulseAudio does other than it kept Rhythmbox from working when I first installed Fedora 10 on a computer. But what dependencies will I be breaking? Last time that I did that, I also found like a dozen or so other applications that depended on PulseAudio that my RPM database apparently didn't know about. I'll give it a shot! Thanks, William From walrus at bellsouth.net Thu May 14 19:05:28 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:05:28 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4A0C6B78.3090701@bellsouth.net> TheOther wrote: >> David, or Fernando, or ANYBODY else out there, do you have any idea why >> this isn't working for me? Something smells funny about Pulseaudio, but >> I don't know enough about it to be able to say why. > > Hello William, > > You can check the PlanetCCRMA archives to see my thoughts and > experiences with PulseAudio. > > If you have Fedora 10 installed, remove PulseAudio. > > If you are using Fedora 7, 8, or 9, then upgrade to Fedora 10 so you > can remove PulseAudio. > > Good Luck, > Stephen. Sounds good to me, I don't even know what PulseAudio does other than it kept Rhythmbox from working when I first installed Fedora 10 on a computer. But what dependencies will I be breaking? Last time that I did that, I also found like a dozen or so other applications that depended on PulseAudio that my RPM database apparently didn't know about. I'll give it a shot! Thanks, William From dtimms at iinet.net.au Sat May 16 06:38:12 2009 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:38:12 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: <4A0C6B78.3090701@bellsouth.net> References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> <4A0C6B78.3090701@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4A0E5F54.8040707@iinet.net.au> On 15/05/09 05:05, William M. Quarles wrote: > TheOther wrote: >>> David, or Fernando, or ANYBODY else out there, do you have any idea >>> why this isn't working for me? Something smells funny about >>> Pulseaudio, but I don't know enough about it to be able to say why. Hi William, I've been across the other side of the country this past week; it seems you have been persevering, good to see. >> You can check the PlanetCCRMA archives to see my thoughts and >> experiences with PulseAudio. Without me actually reviewing the planet archives, this might be summarized as: People interested in real-time, production quality audio recording, manipulation and playback are probably better to use the jack-audio-connection-kit toolkit based apps, and real-time patched kernel from planet ccrma. Pulseaudio has other goals in mind, which in some way conflict with the purist way. > Sounds good to me, I don't even know what PulseAudio does other than it > kept Rhythmbox from working when I first installed Fedora 10 on a > computer. But what dependencies will I be breaking? If you decide to go down the remove pulseaudio route, use yum to erase the bits you are thinking of doing. Then if something unexpected occurs, you can read the /var/log/yum*.log to remind you of the packages that you removed. At least doing that should lead you to determine whether pulseaudio is adding to your troubles. Without PA, all apps need to be pointed at alsa (I think). If you want to see what is going on at the pulseaudio level, it is usually suggested to pulseaudio -k, then pulseaudio -vvv to start the daemon in verbose mode. I have just upgraded my F10 i386 machine to F11 preview, and haven't yet done any audio testing on it. DaveT. ps. it's sort of poor list etiquete to set the reply to address of mail to lists to yourself only. If you are willing to put your queries in public, it makes sense that all readers of the list should get replies to your thread. So I adjust the to back to f-m-l and cc yourself. From walrus at bellsouth.net Sat May 16 21:10:07 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 17:10:07 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: <4A0E5F54.8040707@iinet.net.au> References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> <4A0C6B78.3090701@bellsouth.net> <4A0E5F54.8040707@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: David Timms wrote: > ps. it's sort of poor list etiquete to set the reply to address of mail > to lists to yourself only. If you are willing to put your queries in > public, it makes sense that all readers of the list should get replies > to your thread. So I adjust the to back to f-m-l and cc yourself. > I have no idea what you are talking about, and I didn't change anything having to do with "reply-to" settings. I use Gmane to for all of my lists, so everything I send to a Gmane newsgroup gets sent to all mailing list members no matter what. http://gmane.org/ I have been sending all of my replies to both the Planet CCRMA "list" and the Fedora Music "list" (via Gmane) in order to get input from all thinkers on the subject. If you missed a message, then you aren't subscribed to both lists. However, I still quote what was said, so you should be able to get the point. If you choose not to reply to both lists when you respond to one of my messages, that is your choice. Personally, I hate mailing lists, and I think it makes a lot more sense to put this stuff on newsgroups, especially high-volume things like the general Fedora list, rather than pumping up one's inbox (especially when that inbox has a quota) with messages of which 25-95% of which I don't read, depending on the list. Peace, William From walrus at bellsouth.net Sat May 16 21:13:05 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 17:13:05 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] RE: Mixer Wowes Message-ID: David Timms wrote: > ps. it's sort of poor list etiquete to set the reply to address of mail to lists to yourself only. If you are willing to put your queries in public, it makes sense that all readers of the list should get replies to your thread. So I adjust the to back to f-m-l and cc yourself. > I have no idea what you are talking about, and I didn't change anything having to do with "reply-to" settings. I use Gmane to for all of my lists, so everything I send to a Gmane newsgroup gets sent to all mailing list members no matter what. http://gmane.org/ I have been sending all of my replies to both the Planet CCRMA "list" and the Fedora Music "list" (via Gmane) in order to get input from all thinkers on the subject. If you missed a message, then you aren't subscribed to both lists. However, I still quote what was said, so you should be able to get the point. If you choose not to reply to both lists when you respond to one of my messages, that is your choice. Personally, I hate mailing lists, and I think it makes a lot more sense to put this stuff on newsgroups, especially high-volume things like the general Fedora list, rather than pumping up one's inbox (especially when that inbox has a quota) with messages of which 25-95% of which I don't read, depending on the list. Peace, William From dtimms at iinet.net.au Sun May 17 01:00:47 2009 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:00:47 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> <4A0C6B78.3090701@bellsouth.net> <4A0E5F54.8040707@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4A0F61BF.3010603@iinet.net.au> On 17/05/09 07:10, William M. Quarles wrote: > David Timms wrote: > I have no idea what you are talking about, and I didn't change anything > having to do with "reply-to" settings. I use Gmane to for all of my > lists, so everything I send to a Gmane newsgroup gets sent to all > mailing list members no matter what. All I'm saying is that hitting reply to any other message sent to fedora*-lists generates a message of the kind: to: fedora*-list, and therefore all lists members will see the responses, and threaded mail readers (like thunderbird) make it easy to follow a thread. But if I do that with the messages that you send, thunderbird only: to: you But looking at other fedora-music-list messages, this seems to be a problem with just the music list, and I am querying the list admin since it seems the issue might lie there. I guess that is why we are seeing some messages twice, and the message not being properly threaded, as people try to workaround the lack of inserted reply-to field. Thanks for your feedback, William. > I have been sending all of my replies to both the Planet CCRMA "list" > and the Fedora Music "list" I would suggest if you are looking for the pro audio setup, the CCRMA lists are probably the right place to be subscribed. If it's really the more basic stuff you are after, then fedora-list will surely get you more responses. DaveT. ps. Since I'm now on F11 preview/rawhide, my audio is kinda "dumbed down" to the point of difficulty - I have an inbuilt sound card (that is noisy), and a soundblaster (live) that is quiet. I no longer get easy access to the volume control for the live card, neither do I get mixer or selection points for the card at all. As many mentioned on Fedora devel list, unless you are a default, simple setup user, these new features are rather a downgrade. From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sun May 17 05:51:20 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:51:20 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: <1241537666.10785.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241537666.10785.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: > On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 16:24 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > >> I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status >> once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. > I did start writing the wiki page [1] last week but I got stuck at one point. It is not easy to make a good and fair classification. If we just take the AudioCreation software away and make a new group with them, and leave all the Audio/Video players, Digital Media and Video production software in Multimedia, it will be bad design. We need a better solution, which is not that easy to find. These are the types of software we have in the Multimedia group. - Audio Player - Video Player - Both Audio and Video Player - Digital (optical) Media Creation - Digital (optical) Media Ripping - Video Creation - Subtitle software - Audio Creation (which itself has many sub-categories) So how shall we do the branching? * A starting point would be separating Audio and Video. Then make "Players" and "Creation" subgroups an each. But then where will the CD/DVD creation/ripping stuff will go? * Another starting point would be to separate Creation stuff altogether, leaving all the players in Multimedia. Then the Creation group will contain both Audio and Video stuff. This is not a bad thing to do if the subgrouping is made logical. * Yet another starting point is, do not create another main group. Just do all the subgrouping inside Multimedia. I really can't decide which of the three to pick. Can I get some opinions here? In all the cases, we will have the issue of having some packages that belong to multiple subgroups. How shall we handle this? Orcan PS: I'm also CC'ing planetccrma list in case some users want to share their opinions. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraStudio From walrus at bellsouth.net Sun May 17 13:06:10 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:06:10 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: <4A0F61BF.3010603@iinet.net.au> References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> <4A0C6B78.3090701@bellsouth.net> <4A0E5F54.8040707@iinet.net.au> <4A0F61BF.3010603@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: David Timms wrote: > All I'm saying is that hitting reply to any other message sent to > fedora*-lists generates a message of the kind: > to: fedora*-list, and therefore all lists members will see the > responses, and threaded mail readers (like thunderbird) make it easy to > follow a thread. Gmane should be able to retain threads. I CCed you on a message to get your personal attention, which is probably why you received an e-mail without the headers organized in a way that left the list out of the message, but the list got the message, too, you just got two copies of it, one coming from the Gmane server (by way of Fedora Mailman) and the other coming from my SMTP server on my ISP. My last message got sent twice because I forgot to include Planet CCRMA on the first try (acutally, I accidentally sent the first copy without the Planet's Gmane group fully typed out, which is why I sent it twice). I will try not to make these mistakes in the future, but really, Gmane works as far as preserving the threads, I just have to be certain not to screw around with putting mail headers in my newsgroup messages, as it results in people getting messages without the list as part of the headers. Lesson learned. Really, all of this is off topic, could we please get back to getting my sound card working? I uninstalled Pulseaudio, and while alsamixer -c0 still picks up on my AWE card, none of the GUI utilities do. I do not have integrated audio on my computer, so that is not the issue here. I am suspecting that there is a bug that is not allowing this card to work because it is an ISA card (actually, I think it's an EISA), and something broke somewhere in the sound software that is keeping me from running the card. I haven't installed Jack as Alsa by itself should be sufficient for what I am trying to do, which is to integrate this computer into my home entertainment system. In addition, I can't fully boot about 75% of the time now, because X freezes when it is about to load, and my keyboard then becomes unresponsive. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and reinstall everything, which I hate doing, but considering how buggy this thing is acting, I don't know what other choice I have. Peace, William From dtimms at iinet.net.au Sun May 17 15:37:48 2009 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:37:48 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241537666.10785.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A102F4C.2040304@iinet.net.au> On 17/05/09 15:51, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > These are the types of software we have in the Multimedia group. The group seems to be called Sound & Video on my machine. And there is currently too many items in the menu to fit 2x screen height (2x768). > * Yet another starting point is, do not create another main group. > Just do all the subgrouping inside Multimedia. I'm thinking grouping as consumers (ie viewers, players), and producers (pre: capture|record|import|rip, manipulation: editing|compile|render, post: convert|production|output to file|streamer|titling). Some applications would cover all three areas, which makes this tricky (jacks of all trades). And some apps just tie multiple other apps together (DVD::RIP). Here is a possible layout; it is really just to solicit more opinions: --- bash-4.0$ tree --dirsfirst . === `-- Sound & Video |-- Capture & Import | |-- AV Demultiplexing | |-- Audio Recording | |-- CD Ripper | |-- DVD Ripper | |-- Flash Get | |-- Stream Recorder | |-- VNC Recorder | `-- Video Capture |-- Editing & Conversion | |-- Audacity | |-- Blender ? | |-- DVBcut | |-- Hydrogen | `-- Kino |-- Live Gig |-- Output Generation | |-- AV Multiplexing | |-- Audio Streamer | |-- CD Writer | |-- DVD Subtitler | |-- DVD Writer | |-- Format Changer | |-- K3B | `-- Video Streamer |-- Tools | |-- Instrument Tuner | `-- Metronome |-- Audio Mixer and Volume Control |-- Audio Player |-- Media Library |-- Video & TV Playback `-- Video Player === Cheers, DaveT. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Sound & Video.tar.bz2 Type: application/x-bzip Size: 729 bytes Desc: not available URL: From walrus at bellsouth.net Sun May 17 20:12:10 2009 From: walrus at bellsouth.net (William M. Quarles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 16:12:10 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Re: Mixer Wowes In-Reply-To: References: <4A020BFD.1020902@iinet.net.au> <4A029E60.6020806@iinet.net.au> <4A0B75E8.90702@bellsouth.net> <4A0C128E.6010000@sbcglobal.net> <4A0C6B78.3090701@bellsouth.net> <4A0E5F54.8040707@iinet.net.au> <4A0F61BF.3010603@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: William M. Quarles wrote: > I uninstalled Pulseaudio, and while alsamixer -c0 still picks up on my > AWE card, none of the GUI utilities do. I do not have integrated audio > on my computer, so that is not the issue here. I am suspecting that > there is a bug that is not allowing this card to work because it is an > ISA card (actually, I think it's an EISA), and something broke somewhere > in the sound software that is keeping me from running the card. I > haven't installed Jack as Alsa by itself should be sufficient for what I > am trying to do, which is to integrate this computer into my home > entertainment system. > > In addition, I can't fully boot about 75% of the time now, because X > freezes when it is about to load, and my keyboard then becomes > unresponsive. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and reinstall > everything, which I hate doing, but considering how buggy this thing is > acting, I don't know what other choice I have. I managed to get the computer to load X (only after first starting up Windows XP's boot menu and CTRL+ALT+DEL my way back to Grub), so what's going on there I am still unsure of. I might have figured out the issue with the Sound Blaster AWE 64 Value card: only root has access it's controls. I really have no clue how that happened. Anyone on either list know how to fix that issue? Thanks, William From davids at redhat.com Mon May 18 11:32:42 2009 From: davids at redhat.com (David Sommerseth) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:32:42 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241537666.10785.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A11475A.5030609@redhat.com> Orcan Ogetbil wrote: >> On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 16:24 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: >> >>> I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status >>> once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. > > I did start writing the wiki page [1] last week but I got stuck at one point. > > It is not easy to make a good and fair classification. If we just take > the AudioCreation software away and make a new group with them, and > leave all the Audio/Video players, Digital Media and Video production > software in Multimedia, it will be bad design. We need a better > solution, which is not that easy to find. > > These are the types of software we have in the Multimedia group. > > - Audio Player > - Video Player > - Both Audio and Video Player > - Digital (optical) Media Creation > - Digital (optical) Media Ripping > - Video Creation > - Subtitle software > - Audio Creation (which itself has many sub-categories) > > So how shall we do the branching? > > * A starting point would be separating Audio and Video. Then make > "Players" and "Creation" subgroups an each. But then where will the > CD/DVD creation/ripping stuff will go? > > * Another starting point would be to separate Creation stuff > altogether, leaving all the players in Multimedia. Then the Creation > group will contain both Audio and Video stuff. This is not a bad thing > to do if the subgrouping is made logical. > > * Yet another starting point is, do not create another main group. > Just do all the subgrouping inside Multimedia. > > I really can't decide which of the three to pick. Can I get some > opinions here? In all the cases, we will have the issue of having some > packages that belong to multiple subgroups. How shall we handle this? Good points, and David Timms also got a nice approach in another mail thread (even though, maybe a bit too extensive maybe?) Some software can be really difficult to categorise, especially if aligned along these directions. I'm just thinking out loud here now, please shoot these ideas down if they are useless. We are serving segments, one is big already and the other segment has a potential to be just as big: Consumer and Pro ... what do I mean here? Consumer: The "normal" computer user who wants different players, sounds, and video, and just playing with things just for fun. Pro: Those who want to use the computer for serious production, like composers, musicians, DJ's, whatever who needs high-quality experience. To oversimplify it: Consumers will be more than satisfied enough with PulseAudio, while Pro users who most probably want Jack instead. Could this be a better path to help grouping the software? F.ex. Totem, VLC, MPlayer - in this scheme, a reasonable place would be a "Consumer" group. While Rosegarden, Audacity, QSynth, different DJ software, Video editing, etc might fit better into a "Pro" group. But let's not call anything "Consumer" to the user, but rather stick to the "Sound & Video" group name as today. These two groups could then have subgroups, like Video, Audio/MIDI ... Maybe if more subgroups are wanted below this point, it should be considered to have two main groups for the pro-segment, like "Pro-Audio", "Pro-Video" and for consumer, a single "Sound & Video" group. The reason for not splitting up "Sound & Video" is becuase: where would VLC, MPlayer and Totem fit in, between audio and video ... For more single directed applications in the "consumer" group, it could of course have subcategories. In this approach, the "Pro" categories could also show up in the menu when Jack is installed. And as Jack most probably is a dependency to several Pro-targeted software packages, you get everything in place at once. Another thing for using the word "Pro" in these groups, is to emphasize that Linux is not just for geeks and amateurs, and that even less (Linux?) experienced pro-audio/video people will then catch the point - Linux might also be something for them. For marketing people in the Linux world, using the word "Pro" might be beneficial - as this description is still (I believe) heavily used in the music and video world today. But for a product to slip into the Pro-* groups, it really needs to be high-quality piece of product - or else it can easily backfire again and making Linux Pro-* effort a big joke. Just my few cents David S. From Christian.Iseli at unil.ch Mon May 18 14:49:53 2009 From: Christian.Iseli at unil.ch (Christian Iseli) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:49:53 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: <4A11475A.5030609@redhat.com> References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241537666.10785.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A11475A.5030609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090518164953.40c10289@ludwig-alpha.unil.ch> On Mon, 18 May 2009 13:32:42 +0200, David Sommerseth wrote: > Some software can be really difficult to categorise, especially if > aligned along these directions. I'm just thinking out loud here now, > please shoot these ideas down if they are useless. Just in case: nothing prevents you from putting one software package into several groups, e.g., kdepim and rpm-build are listed in 3 different groups in comps-f10.xml.in Cheers, Christian From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sun May 24 04:35:35 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 00:35:35 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea In-Reply-To: <4A102F4C.2040304@iinet.net.au> References: <1241387714.22535.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241537666.10785.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A102F4C.2040304@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: Hello folks, I updated the wiki page. Based on the feedback I got (especially David's opinions were quite inspiring) and stealing some ideas from planetccrma-menu package, I came up with this outline: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraStudio Note that this is by no means the final draft. Fell free to comment about it or even edit it yourself. Once (and if) we arrive at a general agreement here, I will bring the proposal into FESCo's attention. One thing you will notice in my categorization is: I didn't put any player in a subcategory. I thought that the players are the most commonly used application type and putting them directly in the Multimedia (Sound&Video in Gnome) group will make them easier to find. Let me know if you don't agree with me on this or on anything else. Cheers, Orcan From fermin at dilo.org Sun May 24 13:08:23 2009 From: fermin at dilo.org (Fermin Molina) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 15:08:23 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] LMMS Message-ID: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> Hi all, Any plan to include in fedora or in planetccrma this great app? I think that LMMS is a great music production app: http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ Cheers, /Fermin From mschwendt at gmail.com Sun May 24 13:29:20 2009 From: mschwendt at gmail.com (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 15:29:20 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] LMMS In-Reply-To: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> References: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> Message-ID: <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> On Sun, 24 May 2009 15:08:23 +0200, Fermin wrote: > Hi all, > > Any plan to include in fedora or in planetccrma this great app? > I think that LMMS is a great music production app: > > http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ It's included already: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=7120 From dtimms at iinet.net.au Sun May 24 14:32:15 2009 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 00:32:15 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] LMMS In-Reply-To: <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> References: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> Message-ID: <4A195A6F.50708@iinet.net.au> On 24/05/09 23:29, Michael Schwendt wrote: ... Michael, I wondered if you need to manually edit the reply to address so that a normal reply to fedora-music-list is sent back to the list. It seems that I do. Cheers. From mschwendt at gmail.com Sun May 24 15:18:17 2009 From: mschwendt at gmail.com (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 17:18:17 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] LMMS In-Reply-To: <4A195A6F.50708@iinet.net.au> References: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> <4A195A6F.50708@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <20090524171817.5c50f6a1@faldor.intranet> On Mon, 25 May 2009 00:32:15 +1000, David wrote: > Michael, I wondered if you need to manually edit the reply to address so > that a normal reply to fedora-music-list is sent back to the list. It > seems that I do. Cheers. Not with Claws Mail's "Reply" button as opposed to its "Sender" button. From fermin at dilo.org Sun May 24 15:23:04 2009 From: fermin at dilo.org (Fermin Molina) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 17:23:04 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] LMMS In-Reply-To: <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> References: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> Message-ID: <4A196658.6050508@dilo.org> Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Sun, 24 May 2009 15:08:23 +0200, Fermin wrote: > > >> Hi all, >> >> Any plan to include in fedora or in planetccrma this great app? >> I think that LMMS is a great music production app: >> >> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ >> > > It's included already: > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=7120 > Well... but it's not included in fedora 10 repos, because I can't find it using yum. Cheers, /Fermin From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sun May 24 15:31:50 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 11:31:50 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] LMMS In-Reply-To: <4A196658.6050508@dilo.org> References: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> <4A196658.6050508@dilo.org> Message-ID: On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Fermin Molina wrote: > Michael Schwendt wrote: >> On Sun, 24 May 2009 15:08:23 +0200, Fermin wrote: >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Any plan to include in fedora or in planetccrma this great app? >>> I think that LMMS is a great music production app: >>> >>> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ >>> >> >> It's included already: >> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=7120 >> > > Well... but it's not included in fedora 10 repos, because I can't find > it using yum. > > Cheers, > It is in the testing repo on F-10 for now. Feel free to test and report bugs. Orcan From fermin at dilo.org Sun May 24 15:36:38 2009 From: fermin at dilo.org (Fermin Molina) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 17:36:38 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-music-list] LMMS In-Reply-To: References: <4A1946C7.3090201@dilo.org> <20090524152920.2378629b@faldor.intranet> <4A196658.6050508@dilo.org> Message-ID: <4A196986.1070004@dilo.org> Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Fermin Molina wrote: > >> Michael Schwendt wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 24 May 2009 15:08:23 +0200, Fermin wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Any plan to include in fedora or in planetccrma this great app? >>>> I think that LMMS is a great music production app: >>>> >>>> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ >>>> >>>> >>> It's included already: >>> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=7120 >>> >>> >> Well... but it's not included in fedora 10 repos, because I can't find >> it using yum. >> >> Cheers, >> >> > > It is in the testing repo on F-10 for now. Feel free to test and report bugs. > Oh, thanx! I've found it now! -- Salut! /Fermin