From henryhartley at westat.com Tue Sep 2 12:31:33 2008 From: henryhartley at westat.com (Henry Hartley) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 08:31:33 -0400 Subject: HTML version of README for Live USB In-Reply-To: <48B8D050.4060906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507AB37A541@EX-CMS01.westat.com> Warren Togami wrote >> >> Peter Scheie wrote: >> >> >> >> The GIMP should theoretically be able to do all this? >> > >> > Because I'm a command line kinda person at heart. ;-) I was just >> > thinking I could do a 'for' loop in the directory with all the >> > image files to reduce them to 16-bit color. Yes, one can script >> > things with the Gimp, but I've never done it, but I have done >> > some looping things with ffmpeg for some videos, and was just >> > looking for something similar. >> >> Image manipulation is really a less reasonable thing to use command >> line tools upon unless you are doing mass automatic batch >> processing. In the case of image manipulation where you are trying >> to achieve small file sizes without dramatic reductions in quality, >> it makes a WHOLE LOT more sense to use something like GIMP where >> you can adjust parameters and instantly see (without saving) how >> much it degrades the image? As a photographer who uses either GIMP or Photoshop to make very subtle adjustments to images, I agree in general. The thing is that you need to make slightly different adjustments to each image. For instance, the changes to "Levels" between two almost identical images is going to be very slightly different. When converting images from one bit depth to another, however, there aren't really any "settings" other than the target bit depth and in this case, that setting will be the same for all images. ImageMagick is quite good at doing this sort of thing and I'd just loop through the files feeding them into this in some form. convert -depth 16 old.png new.png To be honest, I often make adjustments to large batches of images using command line tools. Then, when I've found the few images I want to turn into enlargements or whatever, I go back to the originals and do everything by hand for those few images. It's just too time consuming to do that with every image. In this case, the images are all pretty similar in terms of size, color palette and contrast, etc. I would guess that you could find (manually) the adjustments that work for one image and apply them to all images fairly safely. You might need to go through the process two or three times to get things just right but you've still done less work than editing every image manually. -- Henry From peter at scheie.homedns.org Fri Sep 5 00:49:31 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:49:31 -0500 Subject: HTML Readme for K12Linux Live F9 Beta 2 draft 3 Message-ID: <48C0821B.3050900@scheie.homedns.org> At William Fragakis's suggestion, I converted the REAMDE png files to jpg (using the commandline ImageMagick in a for-loop -- fast & easy! To my surprise, the files came out at about 33% of their original size and looking quite good. Not as small at the 8-bit png files, but nearly so, and not so distorted looking. Have a look at draft3-jpg at http://petre.homedns.org/f9-ltsp/. BTW, in step 15, running the ifdown command produced the error "device eth0 is not a slave of ltspbr0" for me; can this be ignored? I did, and it didn't seem to cause any problems. I put a sentence in the README to that effect just so it doesn't freak people out. But it would be good if someone could verify that it is inconsequential. Peter From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Sep 5 03:57:06 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 23:57:06 -0400 Subject: HTML Readme for K12Linux Live F9 Beta 2 draft 3 In-Reply-To: <48C0821B.3050900@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48C0821B.3050900@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48C0AE12.2030802@redhat.com> Peter Scheie wrote: > At William Fragakis's suggestion, I converted the REAMDE png files to > jpg (using the commandline ImageMagick in a for-loop -- fast & easy! To > my surprise, the files came out at about 33% of their original size and > looking quite good. Not as small at the 8-bit png files, but nearly so, > and not so distorted looking. Have a look at draft3-jpg at > http://petre.homedns.org/f9-ltsp/. Great job. I'll review this fully soon. I like the look of the graphics now. > > BTW, in step 15, running the ifdown command produced the error "device > eth0 is not a slave of ltspbr0" for me; can this be ignored? I did, and > it didn't seem to cause any problems. I put a sentence in the README to > that effect just so it doesn't freak people out. But it would be good > if someone could verify that it is inconsequential. > > Peter Yes, you can safely ignore this. BTW, could you please send the .desktop file of that README that appears on the desktop of the screenshots? Warren From peter at scheie.homedns.org Fri Sep 5 13:02:51 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:02:51 -0500 Subject: HTML Readme for K12Linux Live F9 Beta 2 draft 3 In-Reply-To: <48C0821B.3050900@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48C0821B.3050900@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48C12DFB.5010106@scheie.homedns.org> And for the record, draft 1, using unmodified png files, is 1228K; draft 2, using 8-bit png files, is 276K; and draft 3, using png files converted to jpg files, is 420K. Peter Scheie wrote: > At William Fragakis's suggestion, I converted the REAMDE png files to > jpg (using the commandline ImageMagick in a for-loop -- fast & easy! To > my surprise, the files came out at about 33% of their original size and > looking quite good. Not as small at the 8-bit png files, but nearly so, > and not so distorted looking. Have a look at draft3-jpg at > http://petre.homedns.org/f9-ltsp/. > > BTW, in step 15, running the ifdown command produced the error "device > eth0 is not a slave of ltspbr0" for me; can this be ignored? I did, and > it didn't seem to cause any problems. I put a sentence in the README to > that effect just so it doesn't freak people out. But it would be good > if someone could verify that it is inconsequential. > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > K12Linux-devel-list mailing list > K12Linux-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list > From PNelson at nwresd.k12.or.us Fri Sep 5 15:14:35 2008 From: PNelson at nwresd.k12.or.us (Paul Nelson) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 08:14:35 -0700 Subject: FW: What else do we need to fix to make K12Linux production ready Message-ID: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFDB5@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> I sent this message last June and got no reply. I still think that many of these "little" issues/features are what made K12LTSP so school friendly. I understand that the devel-list is working on larger issues but I encourage you to consider the whole package in setting goals for your final product. We're installing three K12Linux/FC9 labs this week and next. I'll try to document as much of this as I can in the walk-through at http://k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/FC9-LTSP5_walk-through. Reel free to contribute to the wiki with your own tips and answers. ;-) Paul ======================================================== Paul Nelson - Instructional Technology Specialist NWRESD Office (503)614-1478 - Cell (503)432-6238 pnelson at nwresd.k12.or.us - http://www.nwresd.k12.or.us Mission: Make things better. http://edtech.nwresd.org -----Original Message----- From: Paul Nelson Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:41 PM To: k12linux-devel-list at redhat.com Subject: What else do we need to fix to make K12Linux production ready Hello Folks, I'm excited about how easy K12Linux was to setup in FC9. I've been thinking a lot about what it needs to be complete. Network defaults ready for use in schools: K12Linux is often installed by teachers experimenting with Linux and thin-clients in their classrooms. It's important to understand these folks as customers when making decisions about how to configure K12Linux. The two network card setup worked so well because these servers could be isolated from the network and could at the same time, create a network in a classroom or lab. Out of the box they had DNS, DHCPD and NAT working so the K12linux box would act as a gateway to the rest of the network and at the same time, create a rational, usable network inside the school or classroom (usable for other PCs too). I think it's important that the kind of scripting that Eric did in earlier releases finds its way into K12Linux for Fedora 9 as well. We also need to be sure we have answers for questions like: * Schools love to put their own graphics up on the welcome screens. We just need to make sure that the documentation is clear on stuff like that. * I want to have two servers, how do I do that and only have one /home and one authentication server? * I want to change the default settings for browsers to be sure they go through our Internet filter and I don't want the kids to change the settings * I want an easy way to reset a single user's settings and another script to do all user settings. * I want to have schooltool working so users can see my desktop and I can see theirs. Is there a way I can automatically put the link to something like that on every user's desktop? * I want to set defaults for things like Adobe PDF, Flash, OO default file saving format, and we want a common set of bookmarks * Kids need a shared folder space where they can put files and collaborate * We need an easy way to install the non-standard applications like Adobe Reader, Flash, java, etc.. * What about other cool education applications and stuff like Kedu? * and the #1 question ( I kid you not...) What typing programs are there for Linux? Harder issues: * How do I add a video driver for my xyz card that is supported in Xorg but isn't included in the default K12Linux install? * What are those scripts that you have to run to change the settings sometimes when installing K12Kinux or after making network changes? * Since these servers are used in schools, do we also install Moodle? I'm not trying to overwhelm you, it's just that these are the day-to-day issues that need to be addressed when using Linux in schools. Trust me, I know. There are other little things that will get you too, like xsane can go haywire and start filling a user's home folder with xsession errors, errors that include high-res image data. And then what happens when /home quietly fills up? That was a fun one. So you need apps like durep that will help admins quickly see who's using up disk space. If you can address all of the above then five years after moving to Linux on the desktop, you'll ask your teachers if they want to change back to Windows and you'll get the same answer I got, a resounding, 100% NO! Stay with Linux! We like it. ;-) Paul From PNelson at nwresd.k12.or.us Fri Sep 5 18:21:29 2008 From: PNelson at nwresd.k12.or.us (Paul Nelson) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:21:29 -0700 Subject: Adding K12LTSP rpms for F9 Message-ID: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFE0D@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> Hello Folks, Over the years, Eric created meta-packages that were installed with K12ltsp. One example is: ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/6.0.0-32bit/i386/Fedora/RPMS/k12ltsp-education-grades-6-12-6.0.0-2.noarch.rpm ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/SRPMS/k12ltsp/k12ltsp-education-grades-6-12-6.0.0-2.src.rpm How can we get these included with F9/K12Linux? I'm willing to help but I would need to know more about the process. Before F9/K12Linux, I would take Eric out to breakfast and we'd had over to our lab and I'd say things like, "Wouldn't it be nice if K12LTSP came with..." Then I'd leave Eric alone for an hour or so and usually he'd have it figured out. My goal is to continue helping so we can have an "it just works" version of K12LTSP based on Fedora. How can I best help with this? ;-) Paul ======================================================== Paul Nelson - Instructional Technology Specialist NWRESD Office (503)614-1478 - Cell (503)432-6238 pnelson at nwresd.k12.or.us - http://www.nwresd.k12.or.us Mission: Make things better. http://edtech.nwresd.org From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Sep 5 18:38:57 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:38:57 -0400 Subject: Adding K12LTSP rpms for F9 In-Reply-To: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFE0D@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> References: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFE0D@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> Message-ID: <48C17CC1.50801@redhat.com> Paul Nelson wrote: > > How can we get these included with F9/K12Linux? > > I'm willing to help but I would need to know more about the process. > > Before F9/K12Linux, I would take Eric out to breakfast and we'd had > over to our lab and I'd say things like, "Wouldn't it be nice if > K12LTSP came with..." Then I'd leave Eric alone for an hour or so and > usually he'd have it figured out. > > My goal is to continue helping so we can have an "it just works" > version of K12LTSP based on Fedora. How can I best help with this? Throwing things into the repo was "easier" in the past, but it created a situation where you have nothing tracked in source control, where it is difficult for others to follow what is happening and collaboratively contribute to further improvement. Indeed this is the key reason I didn't contribute anything to K12LTSP in past years. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/Join K12Linux being a Fedora Project, we can only ship RPMS that are included into Fedora. New packages can be added to Fedora fairly quickly if you follow the steps here. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Sep 6 00:17:09 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 19:17:09 -0500 Subject: HTML Readme for K12Linux Live F9 Beta 2 draft 3 In-Reply-To: <48C0AE12.2030802@redhat.com> References: <48C0821B.3050900@scheie.homedns.org> <48C0AE12.2030802@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48C1CC05.3070506@scheie.homedns.org> Here's the .desktop file for the README: [Desktop Entry] Encoding=UTF-8 Version=1.0 Type=Application Terminal=false Icon[en_US]=/usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/48x48/filesystems/gtk-network.png Name[en_US]=README LTSP Server Setup Exec=firefox /usr/share/ltsp-server-setupdoc/readme-ltsp-server-setup.html Name=README LTSP Server Setup Icon=/usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/48x48/filesystems/gtk-network.png Peter Warren Togami wrote: > Peter Scheie wrote: >> At William Fragakis's suggestion, I converted the REAMDE png files to >> jpg (using the commandline ImageMagick in a for-loop -- fast & easy! >> To my surprise, the files came out at about 33% of their original size >> and looking quite good. Not as small at the 8-bit png files, but >> nearly so, and not so distorted looking. Have a look at draft3-jpg at >> http://petre.homedns.org/f9-ltsp/. > > Great job. I'll review this fully soon. I like the look of the > graphics now. > >> >> BTW, in step 15, running the ifdown command produced the error "device >> eth0 is not a slave of ltspbr0" for me; can this be ignored? I did, >> and it didn't seem to cause any problems. I put a sentence in the >> README to that effect just so it doesn't freak people out. But it >> would be good if someone could verify that it is inconsequential. >> >> Peter > > Yes, you can safely ignore this. > > BTW, could you please send the .desktop file of that README that appears > on the desktop of the screenshots? > > Warren > > _______________________________________________ > K12Linux-devel-list mailing list > K12Linux-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list > From robark at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 19:03:27 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:03:27 -0700 Subject: FW: What else do we need to fix to make K12Linux production ready In-Reply-To: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFDB5@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> References: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFDB5@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Paul Nelson wrote: > Network defaults ready for use in schools: > K12Linux is often installed by teachers experimenting with Linux and thin-clients in their classrooms. It's important to understand these folks as customers when making decisions about how to configure K12Linux. The two network card setup worked so well because these servers could be isolated from the network and could at the same time, create a network in a classroom or lab. Out of the box they had DNS, DHCPD and NAT working so the K12linux box would act as a gateway to the rest of the network and at the same time, create a rational, usable network inside the school or classroom (usable for other PCs too). I think it's important that the kind of scripting that Eric did in earlier releases finds its way into K12Linux for Fedora 9 as well. I agree with this Paul. I think we are going to be getting a lot of people frustrated with the virtual bridge networking configuration. I prefered it the way it was in k12ltsp. As far as I understand it there where 2 reasons for using ltspbr0 1) it's easy to connect vm's to test ltsp 2) people won't accidentally broadcast dhcp by connecting eth0 to the wan I don't really feel these are valid reasons because: 1) people who are going to test with vm's are going to be ltsp dev's, not the average teacher who wants to run a lab. Dev's have the ability to set this up themselves, they don't need it to be defualt. We need to make it easy for most people, not dev's. So it adds unneccessary complexity. 2) once the bridge connects to a real eth device (which you need if you are going to boot real clients) you can still accidentally broadcast dhcp So I'm not sure I understand why we are doing things this way. Second, apparently I understand that F9 + ltsp5 cannot provide an ip (via dhcp) to other stand alone OS's on the clients and act as a gateway. This used to work with k12ltsp. If this does not work it's a real problem because the only way I was able to get approval for my ltsp lab was that I could still boot Windows from the local HD's. Is this ability really gone? I tried testing last night but for some reason my F9 ltsp had it's ltsp-dhcpd service off and I couldn't get it to start again. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From dtrask at vcsvikings.org Sat Sep 6 19:37:35 2008 From: dtrask at vcsvikings.org (David Trask) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:37:35 -0400 Subject: An authentication setup that will work in a school Message-ID: The question has been asked about what can be done to make K12LTSP more production-ready. One thing that I feel is notoriously missing from all of the "education" linux distributions is the lack of a central authentication "server". Many folks use Windows Active Directory....a few use Mac OS X server. I happen to use Samba/LDAP server. Many of you in the K12LTSP world know about the smbldap-installer created by Matt Oquist...with a little input from me. Having something like smbldap-installer allows a school to break free of the chains of proprietary OS's when it comes to authentication and home directories. I'd love to see K12LTSP take up the charge of giving school this "advantage". The smbldap-installer is stalled at the moment as Matt no longer has the time...and he'd like others to pick it up and run with it. The files are all open source and can be found here http://www.majen.net/smbldap Am I way off base here? Whaddya' think? Imagine...easy centralized authentication for multiple K12LTSP servers...as well as other OS's. David N. Trask Technology Teacher/Director Vassalboro Community School dtrask at vcsvikings.org (207)923-3100 From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Sep 6 19:29:16 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:29:16 -0400 Subject: FW: What else do we need to fix to make K12Linux production ready In-Reply-To: References: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFDB5@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> Message-ID: <48C2DA0C.3060402@redhat.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Paul Nelson wrote: >> Network defaults ready for use in schools: >> K12Linux is often installed by teachers experimenting with Linux and thin-clients in their classrooms. It's important to understand these folks as customers when making decisions about how to configure K12Linux. The two network card setup worked so well because these servers could be isolated from the network and could at the same time, create a network in a classroom or lab. Out of the box they had DNS, DHCPD and NAT working so the K12linux box would act as a gateway to the rest of the network and at the same time, create a rational, usable network inside the school or classroom (usable for other PCs too). I think it's important that the kind of scripting that Eric did in earlier releases finds its way into K12Linux for Fedora 9 as well. > > > I agree with this Paul. I think we are going to be getting a lot of > people frustrated with the virtual bridge networking configuration. I > prefered it the way it was in k12ltsp. > > As far as I understand it there where 2 reasons for using ltspbr0 > > 1) it's easy to connect vm's to test ltsp > 2) people won't accidentally broadcast dhcp by connecting eth0 to the wan > > I don't really feel these are valid reasons because: > > 1) people who are going to test with vm's are going to be ltsp dev's, > not the average teacher who wants to run a lab. Dev's have the ability > to set this up themselves, they don't need it to be defualt. We need > to make it easy for most people, not dev's. So it adds unneccessary > complexity. > > 2) once the bridge connects to a real eth device (which you need if > you are going to boot real clients) you can still accidentally > broadcast dhcp I think there is an understanding disconnect here. The bridge does make it convenient to test it with the VM, but that isn't the primary purpose for the bridge. It is perfectly possible with a combination of iptables rules, an actual DNS server (K12Linux currently doesn't run one by default), and dhcpd.conf options to do everything desired above, in a similar manner to K12LTSP. Including iptables rules by default is not straight forward because they can easily conflict with any existing rules from /etc/sysconfig/iptables, from libvirt and other sources. There is unfortunately far too many ways one could configure iptables. I suppose we could ship a basic config that should work for most people, but disabled by default. I think we should ship a DNS server pre-configured for ltspbr0. This is straight forward and relatively easy to do. I just haven't done it yet because it isn't needed for thin clients and nobody asked for it until now. > > So I'm not sure I understand why we are doing things this way. > > Second, apparently I understand that F9 + ltsp5 cannot provide an ip > (via dhcp) to other stand alone OS's on the clients and act as a > gateway. This used to work with k12ltsp. If this does not work it's a > real problem because the only way I was able to get approval for my > ltsp lab was that I could still boot Windows from the local HD's. Is > this ability really gone? I tried testing last night but for some > reason my F9 ltsp had it's ltsp-dhcpd service off and I couldn't get > it to start again. This is only a limitation of the current dhcpd.conf. It is perfectly capable of serving IP's to non-thin clients on that network segment if the dhcpd.conf is setup properly. If someone is willing to point out exactly what dhcpd.conf changes are needed, I am willing to test it and include it in the default dhcpd.conf. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From Steven at SimplyCircus.com Mon Sep 8 02:16:41 2008 From: Steven at SimplyCircus.com (Steven Santos) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 22:16:41 -0400 Subject: FW: What else do we need to fix to make K12Linux production ready In-Reply-To: <48C2DA0C.3060402@redhat.com> References: <9E7E50F82F3AFF48AD491FDEF0ACE2440FFDB5@wsc-mail-04.intra.nwresd.k12.or.us> <48C2DA0C.3060402@redhat.com> Message-ID: Warren, > Including iptables rules by default is not straight forward because > they can easily conflict with any existing rules from > /etc/sysconfig/iptables, from libvirt and other sources. There is > unfortunately far too many ways one could configure iptables. I > suppose we could ship a basic config that should work for most people, but > disabled by default. I think this is an excellent idea, but I would recommend enabling this by default, given how people use these systems. > I think we should ship a DNS server pre-configured for ltspbr0. This > is straight forward and relatively easy to do. I just haven't done it yet > because it isn't needed for thin clients and nobody asked for it until > now. ... > This is only a limitation of the current dhcpd.conf. It is perfectly > capable of serving IP's to non-thin clients on that network segment if > the dhcpd.conf is setup properly. If someone is willing to point out > exactly what dhcpd.conf changes are needed, I am willing to test it and > include it in the default dhcpd.conf. Thank you, these will make a big difference. From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Sep 8 16:08:55 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:08:55 -0400 Subject: K12Linux branding ideas In-Reply-To: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> References: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48C54E17.4070001@redhat.com> Warren Togami wrote: > Hey folks, > > We may soon have ownership of k12linux.* domains. We need to decide how > we will use the K12Linux brand name. > > In the tradition of K12LTSP, perhaps we should call the installable > media spins K12Linux. > > K12Linux Live Server F9 Beta 2 > K12Linux Live Server F9 > K12Linux Live Server F10 > K12linux Live Server EL6 > Hmm, I'm also considering: K12Linux Live LTSP Server F9 Beta 2 K12Linux Live LTSP Server F9 K12Linux Live LTSP Server F10 K12Linux Live LTSP Server EL6 You think folks would be confused with the lack of "LTSP" in the name? Or is "Live" important to include in the name? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Sep 8 16:50:02 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:50:02 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: K12Linux branding ideas In-Reply-To: References: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> <48C54E17.4070001@redhat.com> <200809081220.26256.microman@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48C557BA.8000201@redhat.com> How about: K12Linux Terminal Server F9 Beta 2 K12Linux Terminal Server F9 K12Linux Terminal Server F10 K12Linux Terminal Server EL6 Warren From henryhartley at westat.com Mon Sep 8 17:17:40 2008 From: henryhartley at westat.com (Henry Hartley) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:17:40 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: K12Linux branding ideas In-Reply-To: <48C557BA.8000201@redhat.com> Message-ID: <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507AD056C19@EX-CMS01.westat.com> Warren Togami wrote: >> >> How about: >> K12Linux Terminal Server F9 Beta 2 >> K12Linux Terminal Server F9 >> K12Linux Terminal Server F10 >> K12Linux Terminal Server EL6 For people "in the know" LTSP is fine because it means something very specific. The problem is that when talking to people who know a little less, I end up having to expand LTSP. "K12Linux Linux Terminal Server Project" is too long and just sounds funny. So, I like "K12Linux Termainal Server..." -- Henry From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Sep 8 18:30:37 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:30:37 -0400 Subject: K12Linux Logo Ideas Message-ID: <48C56F4D.6090802@redhat.com> http://people.redhat.com/duffy/tmp/k12ideas.png Maureen Duffy, leader of the Fedora Art team and Interaction Designer at Red Hat worked on these mockups for a new K12Linux logo. This would be for the LDM login screen, with an attractive but subtle blue background behind it. How do people feel about the different options here? http://people.redhat.com/duffy/tmp/k12-white_bg_ex.png Here is an example of the same logo with a white background, for the Trac top-left logo and print on paper. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From robark at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 19:13:58 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:13:58 -0700 Subject: rpm for ISO-8859-1 locale Message-ID: Does anyone know the rpm package that provides ISO-8859-1 Latin character set locale for K12LTSP 5EL? I'm trying to include support for international characters in fl_teachertool. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Sep 8 19:19:43 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:19:43 -0400 Subject: rpm for ISO-8859-1 locale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48C57ACF.20205@redhat.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > Does anyone know the rpm package that provides ISO-8859-1 Latin > character set locale for K12LTSP 5EL? > > I'm trying to include support for international characters in fl_teachertool. > What kind of files would this contain? Does this exist on other distros or something? Warren From robark at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 19:42:50 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:42:50 -0700 Subject: rpm for ISO-8859-1 locale In-Reply-To: <48C57ACF.20205@redhat.com> References: <48C57ACF.20205@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 9/8/08, Warren Togami wrote: > Robert Arkiletian wrote: > > > Does anyone know the rpm package that provides ISO-8859-1 Latin > > character set locale for K12LTSP 5EL? > > > > I'm trying to include support for international characters in > fl_teachertool. > > > > > > What kind of files would this contain? that's what I'm trying to figure out. Unfortunately, fltk (the gui toolkit I use for fl_teachertool) does not currently support utf-8. But iso-8859-1 locale supports most european and north/south american languages. So I want to figure out the rpm package name to instruct people to install it. Here is a message I received from a person who is adding internationalization to fl_teachertool ------snip----- The second problem which I encountered is that FLTK doesn't support Unicode. I see on the FLTK website that Unicode support will come in the future with version 1.3. The problem is that most people now-a-days set their locale to use the UTF-8 character set, so gettext will send unicode characters to fl_teachertool. This causes all the international characters to show up as question marks or garbly-gook. I tried to write a function which would detect if using UTF-8 and switch the locale to ISO-8859-1, but many users don't have the ISO-8859-1 locale defined on their systems. Do you know how to get around this problem? -----snip------ > > Does this exist on other distros or something? > No. I'm only concerned with k12ltsp 5EL for now since that's what fl_teachertool works with right now. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Sep 8 20:04:14 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:04:14 -0400 Subject: rpm for ISO-8859-1 locale In-Reply-To: References: <48C57ACF.20205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48C5853E.5080509@redhat.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: >>> >> What kind of files would this contain? > > that's what I'm trying to figure out. Unfortunately, fltk (the gui > toolkit I use for fl_teachertool) does not currently support utf-8. > But iso-8859-1 locale supports most european and north/south american > languages. So I want to figure out the rpm package name to instruct > people to install it. Here is a message I received from a person who > is adding internationalization to fl_teachertool > > ------snip----- > The second problem which I encountered is that FLTK > doesn't support Unicode. I see on the FLTK website > that Unicode support will come in the future with > version 1.3. The problem is that most people > now-a-days set their locale to use the UTF-8 character > set, so gettext will send unicode characters to > fl_teachertool. This causes all the international > characters to show up as question marks or > garbly-gook. I tried to write a function which would > detect if using UTF-8 and switch the locale to > ISO-8859-1, but many users don't have the ISO-8859-1 > locale defined on their systems. Do you know how to > get around this problem? > -----snip------ Yikes. Red Hat began doing UTF-8 by default ~5 years ago. And no, I don't think there is a supported non-UTF-8 locale, nor have we shipped any files to support it for a very long time. Warren Togami wtogami at edhat.com From robark at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 05:11:25 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:11:25 -0700 Subject: rpm for ISO-8859-1 locale In-Reply-To: <48C5853E.5080509@redhat.com> References: <48C57ACF.20205@redhat.com> <48C5853E.5080509@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Warren Togami wrote: > > Yikes. Red Hat began doing UTF-8 by default ~5 years ago. And no, I don't > think there is a supported non-UTF-8 locale, nor have we shipped any files > to support it for a very long time. > After some googling I just checked Fedora 8. $ locale -a |grep iso88591$|wc -l 83 there are 83 locales supported for iso-88591 by default. So I don't need any rpm. But I still have to check K12LTSP5EL. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Sep 9 05:22:27 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:22:27 -0400 Subject: rpm for ISO-8859-1 locale In-Reply-To: References: <48C57ACF.20205@redhat.com> <48C5853E.5080509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48C60813.3000405@redhat.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Warren Togami wrote: >> Yikes. Red Hat began doing UTF-8 by default ~5 years ago. And no, I don't >> think there is a supported non-UTF-8 locale, nor have we shipped any files >> to support it for a very long time. >> > > After some googling I just checked Fedora 8. > > $ locale -a |grep iso88591$|wc -l > 83 > > there are 83 locales supported for iso-88591 by default. So I don't > need any rpm. But I still have to check K12LTSP5EL. > [warren at newcaprica pkgs]$ locale -a |wc -l 702 The vast majority of these locales are not supported at all. They are only listed here because glibc knows about them internally. I am afraid your only options are either to wait until FLTK supports UTF-8, or port teachertool to an entirely different widget toolkit. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Sep 9 19:23:08 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:23:08 -0400 Subject: K12Linux Logos Round 2 Message-ID: <48C6CD1C.2000305@redhat.com> Hey folks, http://people.redhat.com/duffy/tmp/k12ideas2.png K12Linux Logos Round 2 Maureen Duffy read through all the suggestions and created this updated page of K12Linux logo options. Please provide further opinions here. One possible consideration for the logo is cultural considerations. We might want to steer away from logos with four people because in Asian cultures "four" is an unlucky number with similar pronunciation and association with "death". I asked the nearest Japanese guy to my desk and he thinks it isn't a problem. OTOH I asked a Taiwanese-American and she thought it could possibly be a problem. A sample size of two remains inconclusive. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Sep 9 21:57:15 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:57:15 -0400 Subject: K12Linux Logo Proofs (Round 3) Message-ID: <48C6F13B.30302@redhat.com> http://people.redhat.com/duffy/tmp/logoproofs.png Here is the third round. This time are a few options and variations for different types of media (monochrome, vertical, and text only.) We could still revisit ideas from Round 2 if there is particular demand. Opinions? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From robark at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 04:25:17 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:25:17 -0700 Subject: A new direction for LTSP: Diskless Remote Boot Message-ID: Hello list, I know local app support is in the works BUT I'm wondering if anyone else is thinking it would be a good idea to have an option (or even a distro) which runs EVERYTHING on the client. Much like DRBL http://drbl.sourceforge.net/. The reason for my suggestion is that I feel the days of Terminal Servers are numbered. With the advent of Intel Atom like cpus, it now becomes possible to retain the energy efficiency of previous generation thin clients AND have enough cpu muscle to run a full desktop. As time goes on these cpus are only going to get faster. They are already fast enough and very affordable. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032 The benefits of LTSP are ease of administration, maintenance, affordability and energy efficiency. With Diskless remote booting these advantages are retained. But the traditional problems and difficulties in development of LTSP: remote sound, local devices (ltspfs), cpu hogs (flash), full screen video (network bottlenecks and sound sync), security (ssh tunnels, X latency), X caching pixmaps in local ram (firefox, OOo killing X).... they ALL disappear. One new problem does arise. The time to initially launch an app may be slightly increased. Since the app must be loaded from a remote disk, the network replaces the SATA cable. However, ram is so cheap, if you stick in 1GB on a client ($20), the 2.6 Linux kernel utilizes most of the ram by caching app memory. So if you launch FF, close it, then launch it again, it is much faster second time around. The slowest and most demanding event in a DRB lab would be boot time. However, this can be scheduled in a cron job (with WOL) to occur just before school opens in the morning. Problem solved. Fortunately, these new little boxes are shipping with 1000Mbps nics. In addition, full gigabit port switches are much more affordable than when they first came out. So for the future, as network switches get upgraded, this issue should dissapear. FAST disks on the server and a fat pipe to the switch would be optimal. SSD drives in the future may hold promise. The setup I describe above has been successfully implemented for an entire school district. Here http://www.sd73.bc.ca/district-operations.php/page/linux-in-education/ LTSP was a solution for a problem that existed 10 years ago. Most people who started using LTSP did so by re-using old computers (I still use PII's) as make shift thin clients. The cost of upgrading an entire lab was ONLY 1 server. It made sense. I still happily use K12LTSP today. But look at hardware technology/affordability today. I am in line for funding at the end of this school year. I am most likely going to buy a whole lab of Atom based systems much like the one linked above (hopefully the next gen). I wish I could install a Fedora or Ubuntu DRB distro. I hope LTSP developers and distros see this perspective. If others on this list agree or disagree please speak up as I want the general consensus to be known. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From robark at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 04:41:32 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:41:32 -0700 Subject: A new direction for LTSP: Diskless Remote Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > > LTSP was a solution for a problem that existed 10 years ago. Most I don't feel the line above is true, but I forgot to delete it. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From Steven at SimplyCircus.com Wed Sep 10 05:22:08 2008 From: Steven at SimplyCircus.com (Steven Santos) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:22:08 -0400 Subject: A new direction for LTSP: Diskless Remote Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Robert, I have the utmost respect for you and the work you have done, and all that you have contributed to the community. And while I can't speak for anyone else, I will say that if this was written by almost anyone else, I wouldn't even have bothered to finish reading it, let alone answer it. But it WAS written by you, and I have far too much respect for you not to answer it. Eventually, I think you will be right, and that LTSP will eventually migrate more and more towards the fundamentals of how DRBL works, while still supporting older systems, but I am not sure loading everything locally is the best answer either, at least not with networking tech being where it is now. Who knows, maybe one day we will see bittorrent-esque method of distributing the local apps / disk images / whatever that will make the server and disk bottleneck go away. But for today, I don't think the networks would stand up to it, at least not acceptably for most users and configs. --- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven at SimplyCircus.com Mail: 14 Pierrepont Road Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 617-527-0667 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com From abnormaliti at clivepeeters.com.au Wed Sep 10 05:26:41 2008 From: abnormaliti at clivepeeters.com.au (Ben) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:26:41 +1000 Subject: A new direction for LTSP: Diskless Remote Boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48C75A91.5050901@clivepeeters.com.au> Robert, I couldn't agree more. I developed a "Diskless fat client" using fc4 some years ago, which is still widely used in house, but it was a lot of hacking and unmaintainable. Recently a need to provide a new client based on an up-to-date distro was highlighted and I was disappointed to see Fedora/RedHat stateless[1] support had all but died. So i looked elsewhere and found it was easy to add LTSP "workstation"[2] support to Ubuntu. The Ubuntu LTSP solution is not entirely suitable for my needs because i run RHEL5 servers. This lead me to look at Ubuntu's initramfs which is soooo much more powerful and easier to customizable than Fedora/RedHat's. nash is really weak. It is as easy as installing and configuring a "golden client", installing aufs from their repos and adding some scripts to the mkinitramfs configuration. Copy the golden client to a nfs server, make the custom (easily reproducible on kernel update) initramfs, copy the kernel and initramfs to a TFTP server and boot your diskless client. Having said all this i would give my left nut to have all this in Fedora/RHEL cause i still don't really like Ubuntu so much. RHEL serving Fedora LTSP fat clients would be ideal. Note: I haven't taken a close look at F9 yet, so forgive me if Stateless actually works in it. Ben [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/StatelessLinux [2] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Sep 12 04:09:00 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:09:00 -0400 Subject: LTSP-5 on RHEL-5 questions In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080910133528.03ff7d48@llnl.gov> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20080910133528.03ff7d48@llnl.gov> Message-ID: <48C9EB5C.2090104@redhat.com> REDACTED wrote: > Hi Warren, > > I hope you don't mind a few questions on LTSP-5. I work at REDACTED > REDACTED REDACTED ORG and have been tasked with investigating > using LSTP-5 clients on a network for scientists and > engineers who have some applications that require 3-D visualization. We > can deploy thick clients, but thin is easier to manage. At any rate, > clients are required to be diskless. Also, we are limited to using Red > Hat Enterprise Linux version 5. You do understand that due to limitations of RHEL5 combined with extremely limited time resources, the client operating systems you are booting by following those instructions is Fedora 9 right? > > That said, I followed the instructions that you outline for LTSP 5 on > RHEL 5. It works. I can get clients to boot and can get an LDM session > on the server. It's been fun learning and experimenting. I have some > questions. I realize you must get a lot of these types of e-mails. > Again, I hope you don't mind my imposition. Please understand that any work I do on RHEL5 is entirely on my spare time. I am really burning myself out trying to achieve goals for Fedora 10 and eventually RHEL6 official support for all this. Very behind schedule on the software deliverables, and especially documentation for all this. The version of ltsp built in my repository there and the F9 chroot tarball is 10 upstream versions ago. I began fixing bugs to make it possible to build the latest versions on RHEL5 again. I will try to test new builds of this to bring it up to a modern version this weekend. > > 1) My LDM session comes up fine. However, if I switch to another > virtual console (ctrl-alt-f5) for example to get a local shell and then > switch back to the console running the LDM session, the entire LDM > display shifts to off center by about half the width on the monitor. > Have you or anybody else seen this behavior? Can you suggest a fix or > way to troubleshoot it? Sounds like an X video driver bug. This is all nv video? I have personally not used nvidia hardware for ~7 years now because they have been the least convenient for Linux driver support, so I do not have any recommendations of a fix. You may want to report a bug against xorg-x11-drv-nv for Fedora 9. > > 2) We will be deploying some fairly high end client hardware - at least > a gigabyte of memory per client and an nvidia GEforce 8000 class video > card. Is there a way to configure LTSP clients to do more of the video > processing locally on these more capable video cards to speed up the > graphics? For example, I run "glxgears" on a server, displaying to the > console of a diskfull client. When I display it on an LTSP client, the > performance is much slower than the diskfull client. Note, that I am > using the nv driver and glx libraries that came in your LTSP 5 root tar > package. Right. nv has no 3D acceleration, so it would be significantly slower than real hardware acceleration. Please keep in mind that NVIDIA drivers are completely unsupported by Red Hat and the Fedora Project. They are closed source so we cannot possibly support it. That being said the following advice might be helpful. Also know that 3D over the network, while possible, is much slower than the application and X display on the same physical machine. > 2a - If I were to download the driver install package from nvidia and > install that, would my performance improve? > 2b - I actually tried to install the drivers from the nvidia install > package. It was a daunting task. I was not successful, since the > kernel and LTSP root for RHEL 5 are different from the RHEL 5 server's > kernel and root filesystem. I must have gotten the wrong location for > the nvidia glx library, because it broke glx. Basically, I tried > running the nvidia install script as: > > sh ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-173.14.12-pkg1.run > --x-module-path=/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/xorg/ > --x-library-path=/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib \ > --x-prefix=/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/X11R6 > --utility-prefix=/opt/ltsp/i386/usr > --kernel-source-path=/usr/src/kernels/2.6.25.10-86.fc9.i586 \ > --kernel-install-path=/opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.25.10-86.fc9.i586/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia > --kernel-name=2.6.25.10-86.fc9.i586 \ > --no-runlevel-check --no-x-check > http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/ You are essentially booting Fedora 9 read-only roots on your thin clients. Your best bet is to use Livna to get NVIDIA rpms of the kernel module and X drivers for a matching Fedora 9 kernel in your chroot. Luckily it appears that their repo has i586 kernel module builds to match the i586 kernel in the LTSP chroot. Another issue that you will run into: The LTSP clients with read-only root have no xorg.conf by default. Normally X autodetects what video card you have and uses a matching driver for your card. But since nvidia is a non-standard driver, it cannot be autodetected and autoconfigured in this manner. There is a workaround for this. lts.conf has an option X_CONF where you can specify the path of an alternate xorg.conf file. You could create something like /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg-nvidia.conf and have lts.conf point at it. That config file could have only the minimum necessary sections to specify the nvidia driver, and it can attempt to autodetect everything else like monitor resolution and input devices. > > Would I also need to add the NVIDIA kernel module to the initrd image? > Does "ltsp-update-kernels" do that, or does it simply copy the kernel > and initrd from /opt/ltsp/i386/boot? ltsp-update-kernels will only copy the initrd images from /boot of the client chroot into the tftpboot directory that is used during PXE booting. AFAIK, nvidia kernel modules are not needed in the initrd. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Sep 14 01:10:09 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:10:09 -0400 Subject: Regarding K12Linux Meetings Message-ID: <48CC6471.2060206@redhat.com> Hi folks, I soon enter major surgery and will likely available at a greatly diminished capacity for a few weeks, then I have a few weeks of heavy travel after that. So the weekly K12Linux development meetings (currently Saturday's at 10:30AM eastern) will need to be cancelled for a while. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/Meetings That is unless, somebody else wants to be the driver of the meetings and responsible for writing notes on the Wiki? Under the multiple pressures that I am under I have failed to write a few of the weeks minutes after meetings. This is totally an example where others can contribute a little to spread the burden of this multi-faceted project beyond just Warren. In any case, I will not be at the meeting on September 14th. I might be back early November. I will respond to important e-mail irregularly and try to make a few key improvements to LTSP and get K12Linux F9 final out the door as well. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From robark at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 02:25:36 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:25:36 -0700 Subject: Regarding K12Linux Meetings In-Reply-To: <48CC6471.2060206@redhat.com> References: <48CC6471.2060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Warren Togami wrote: > Hi folks, > > I soon enter major surgery and will likely available at a greatly diminished Quick recovery Warren. I hope you are okay. I know this is not the place to discuss personal issues so don't feel like you need to reply. All the Best. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Sep 14 03:24:02 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:24:02 -0400 Subject: Regarding K12Linux Meetings In-Reply-To: <48CC6471.2060206@redhat.com> References: <48CC6471.2060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48CC83D2.8030204@redhat.com> Warren Togami wrote: > Hi folks, > > I soon enter major surgery and will likely available at a greatly > diminished capacity for a few weeks, then I have a few weeks of heavy > travel after that. So the weekly K12Linux development meetings > (currently Saturday's at 10:30AM eastern) will need to be cancelled for > a while. > Oops. Sundays. Anyway I hope someone else can lead these meetings so they don't have to be cancelled. Warren From dtrask at vcsvikings.org Sun Sep 14 05:10:22 2008 From: dtrask at vcsvikings.org (David Trask) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:10:22 -0400 Subject: Regarding K12Linux Meetings In-Reply-To: <48CC6471.2060206@redhat.com> References: <48CC6471.2060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: Godspeed Warren.....I hope your recovery goes well. We'll all be thinking of you. :-) Development discussion of K12Linux writes: >Hi folks, > >I soon enter major surgery and will likely available at a greatly >diminished capacity for a few weeks, then I have a few weeks of heavy >travel after that. So the weekly K12Linux development meetings >(currently Saturday's at 10:30AM eastern) will need to be cancelled for >a while. > >https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/Meetings >That is unless, somebody else wants to be the driver of the meetings and >responsible for writing notes on the Wiki? > >Under the multiple pressures that I am under I have failed to write a >few of the weeks minutes after meetings. This is totally an example >where others can contribute a little to spread the burden of this >multi-faceted project beyond just Warren. > >In any case, I will not be at the meeting on September 14th. I might be >back early November. I will respond to important e-mail irregularly and >try to make a few key improvements to LTSP and get K12Linux F9 final out >the door as well. > >Warren Togami >wtogami at redhat.com > >_______________________________________________ >K12Linux-devel-list mailing list >K12Linux-devel-list at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list David N. Trask Technology Teacher/Director Vassalboro Community School dtrask at vcsvikings.org (207)923-3100 From odin at gnuskole.no Mon Sep 22 07:36:04 2008 From: odin at gnuskole.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Odin_N=F8sen?=) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:36:04 +0200 Subject: Keyboard stops working after updating the ldm-client Message-ID: <20080922073346.M21290@gnuskole.no> After a $ chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 $ mount /proc $ yum update the keyboard stops working in GUI on the thin clients. Saved myself with an "old" tar-backup I had. Please help me... :-) Odin From andrew at mobileitsolutions.co.uk Mon Sep 22 17:28:33 2008 From: andrew at mobileitsolutions.co.uk (Andrew Osborne) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:28:33 +0100 Subject: Keyboard stops working after updating the ldm-client In-Reply-To: <20080922073346.M21290@gnuskole.no> References: <20080922073346.M21290@gnuskole.no> Message-ID: <6befb72f0809221028i724e7e80p52bc875903d7192b@mail.gmail.com> yes, I have the same problem after doing a clean install from Fedora 9 DVD 2008/9/22 Odin N?sen > After a > $ chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 > $ mount /proc > $ yum update > > the keyboard stops working in GUI on the thin clients. Saved myself with an > "old" > tar-backup I had. > > Please help me... :-) > > > Odin > > _______________________________________________ > K12Linux-devel-list mailing list > K12Linux-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From odin at gnuskole.no Mon Sep 22 17:36:21 2008 From: odin at gnuskole.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Odin_N=F8sen?=) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:36:21 +0200 Subject: Keyboard stops working after updating the ldm-client In-Reply-To: <6befb72f0809221028i724e7e80p52bc875903d7192b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080922073346.M21290@gnuskole.no> <6befb72f0809221028i724e7e80p52bc875903d7192b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080922173537.M57538@gnuskole.no> It updates the Xorg-x11-common from 1.4.99 to 1.5.0 - so I guess there is something fishy in the new Xorg release. Odin On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:28:33 +0100, Andrew Osborne wrote > yes, I have the same problem after doing a clean install from Fedora 9 DVD > > 2008/9/22 Odin N?sen > > > After a > > $ chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 > > $ mount /proc > > $ yum update > > > > the keyboard stops working in GUI on the thin clients. Saved myself with an > > "old" > > tar-backup I had. > > > > Please help me... :-) > > > > > > Odin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12Linux-devel-list mailing list > > K12Linux-devel-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list > > From eharrison at mesd.k12.or.us Mon Sep 22 17:41:40 2008 From: eharrison at mesd.k12.or.us (Eric Harrison) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:41:40 -0700 Subject: Keyboard stops working after updating the ldm-client In-Reply-To: <20080922073346.M21290@gnuskole.no> References: <20080922073346.M21290@gnuskole.no> Message-ID: <9e29091b0809221041jfd582d3r1d34fecb296f742a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Odin N?sen wrote: > After a > $ chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 > $ mount /proc > $ yum update > > the keyboard stops working in GUI on the thin clients. Saved myself with an "old" > tar-backup I had. > > Please help me... :-) > > > Odin > It is a bug, obviously ;-) I *think* installing this package into the chroot will fix it: xorg-x11-drv-evdev The fixed xorg-x11-server packages are in the update queue. You can fetch them here: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=63479 Here is the bug report, if want to see the details: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=462606 -Eric From odin at gnuskole.no Mon Sep 22 19:29:15 2008 From: odin at gnuskole.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Odin_N=F8sen?=) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:29:15 +0200 Subject: Keyboard stops working after updating the ldm-client In-Reply-To: <9e29091b0809221041jfd582d3r1d34fecb296f742a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080922073346.M21290@gnuskole.no> <9e29091b0809221041jfd582d3r1d34fecb296f742a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080922191649.M31897@gnuskole.no> > I *think* installing this package into the chroot will fix it: > xorg-x11-drv-evdev Nope :-) The yum update installs: xorg-x11-drv-evdev i386 2.0.4-1.fc9 updates-newkey 15 k xorg-x11-server-Xorg i386 1.5.0-1.fc9 updates-newkey 1.5 M xorg-x11-server-common i386 1.5.0-1.fc9 updates-newkey 70 k > The fixed xorg-x11-server packages are in the update queue. You can > fetch them here: > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=63479 Thnx! At our school we made a try at Ubuntu 8.04 this summer and everything when really bad when all the pupils began at school in August (680 pupils with 350 clients on 9 terminal servers :-). Clearly Ubuntu wasn't made for a massive multiuser environment. Dead PIDs everywhere (gnome-watchdog helped) and it seems that Ubuntu doesn't like to talk NFS with CentOS 5. We have had some strange file locking problems that weren't there when we rolled every TS over to Fedora9. We're never going to leave the safe haven of Fedora/RedHat/CentOS again ;-) We've had a good and stable year with K12LTSP 5EL, so the Ubuntu-start this autumn was a shock. Kudos to you, Eric Harrison, for all the good work on K12LTSP! We're going to follow the K12Linux-prosject... and we're looking forward to "LOCAL_APPS = true". Odin From odin at gnuskole.no Thu Sep 25 12:01:55 2008 From: odin at gnuskole.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Odin_N=F8sen?=) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:01:55 +0200 Subject: The never-dying Message-ID: <20080925115128.M4660@gnuskole.no> After each time a use logs off a thin client in Fedora9 w/LTSP this prosess lingers: /usr/libexec//gvfs-fuse-daemon /home/odinn/.gvfs ...for every time a user logs off. So if user odinn on and off 3 times - there are 3 prosesses with gvfs-fuse-daemon What can I do to avoid them? In the thin cklient there seems to be script that is supposed to clean this up: ... ; /usr/sbin/ltspfsmount all cleanup ; ... But there is no command in /usr/sbin with this name - there is ltspfs_mount and ltspfs_umount. And... with 15 users logged on the login time is to long - and it seems to be connectet to gconfd. After a user inputs the correct username and passord - there client seems to be waiting. No user prosesses is startet on the TS - and after 1-3 minutes the user "suddently" logs on - with normal messages in /var/log/messages on the TS: gconfd (odinn-32250): starter (versjon 2.22.0), pid 32250 bruker ?odinn? I can't find anything wrong in log files or on the network... Odin