Re: [K12OSN] We're promoting k12LTSP (continued......)

[BMan <bman bman is-a-geek org>]

Good stuff folks!  What I'm hearing, correct me if I'm wrong, is it's all
about teaching computer processes and not products.  Processes that build
schema and schema that can be transferred from computer to computer, OS to
OS and program to program.  Think of it this way, just about every program
I've seen has certain menus and functions that are the same in the gui's.
 For example to save a file in a word processor you select file then save
or saveas.  Any one know of an OS gui that does it different?  Note I said
gui so don't use vi as a buster please. ;)  I don't know of any gui that
doesn't use the same "Basics" if you will.  So isn't it safe to say that
teaching students the "Basic" processes is a safe and sound way to start
off things?  Don't get me wrong, I believe students must still see all OS's
since a lot of the processes are completely different when you move into
more complex processes.  Again the basics are basic even when you look at
the hardware industry.  Whether it is a Mac, Sun or Intel/AMD based it will
have memory, CPU, Hard Drive, etc.....  

I believe I said this in an earlier thread and breifly above, however, I
must reiterate it.  To teach a product is limiting our children.  It builds
nothing more than dependencies.  The truth of the matter is the folks who
say it's an Industry standard are wrong to a certian extent.  Let me put
this statement into context for you.  They have not taken an accurate sampling
from different areas.  

My guess is they looked around Central office and/or business offices and
concluded that windoze is on most desktops so that must be it.  Just because
this is all they see doesn't mean this is the "norm".  Pertaining only to
desktops then this is more the case but folks there is more than just desktops
out there.  Especially when you speak of the Internet.  If companies want
up time they don't put windoze boxes on the edge.  Internet space is ruled
by Unix and Linux Sendmail and Apache servers to name a few.  There is a
need for good computer programmers, administrators and/or engineers who know
these OS's.  If these same folks used surveys that depict the ratio of computers
and there OS's, I would be interested in seeing the break down of desktops
vs. servers.  I'm sure the final numbers would lean more towards windoze
but again look at how the sample is taken.  You have more desktops in a business
then servers generally.  So I would suggest everyone to do there own research
and break out the desktop and servers.  Why not sell it as; we teach students
server and/or Internet server environments and this space is owned by Unix
and Linux?

What is amazing to me is how often the schools or disconnected from Higher
education too.  If they really think this is the "norm" then ask them this.
 Why does higher education utilize so many Unix and Linux clusters and boxes
to do stats, graphics and other highly computational and processor intensive
tasks?  More good questions for them.  What OS was the movie Shrek rendered
on?  The answer is Linux Clusters.  How about Spirit?  Answer, Linux.  What
OS does a Tivo run?  Answer, Linux.  What OS does the Play Station 2 run?
 Answer, Linux.  What OS is Cisco starting to use on routers?  Answer, Linux.
 Shall I go on?  I can think of at least a dozen more......OK I'll stop preaching.
 :)  

Your thoughts?

Regards,
BMan


Brian Fahrlander wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:38, Bert Rolston wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'll use the KISS principle here.
> >
> > When a person learns to drive, are they taught to drive a particular
> > make and model of car, OR operate a motor vehicle?
> >
> > When we put fuel into a car do we have to buy special fuels for Honda,
> > Toyota, Chrysler, Ford, or GM?
> >
> > What is the difference when we are dealing with computers and software?
> >
> > That's my 2c worth.
> >   
>
>     Well, that'd be a value for the money :)  execpt they don't make
> Ford Gasoline...or tires built only for Chevys.  And you don't have to
> go to the Dodge school for Driving, and then spend another $2,000 to get
> the latest version to stay current.
>
>     The computer industry started in earnest.  It was all of us against
> the machine.  People were making it connect to weather vanes, home alarm
> systems, and later speech synthesis boxes.  In the times of the TRS-80
> and Commodore, we were all working towards problem solving and such in a
> fairly unfocused way.
>
>     So when DOS came out for the IBM, things looked great.  A great
> hardware manufacturer and this one thing, built from lessons of CP/M
> (and just another 'single user slice' of Unix that people can afford),
> development went great guns.
>
>     Until Win95, no software maker controlled the hardware.  And when
> Bill and company could go to the vendors and say "Hey, if you want to be
> on our train to profits, you'll give us drivers for your hardware,
> without question." that's when it all began to turn sour.
>
>     Since then it's all been about getting money from us, not solving
> problems.  Like....at all.  How many version of Word, Access, and Excel
> do they need to release without adding any new features?  It's all a
> scam.
>
>     And one day, after Sun is gone (which will be a shame) and the
> desktops are close enough that it comes down to a choice of:
>
>     A.  Install it once.  Use it.  Enjoy.  Repeat
>
>     B.  Install, pay for licensing. Struggle with bugs, repeat. 
>
>     OpenSource represent a chance for things to go back to the old
> nature of computing: all of us working to solve our own problems.
>
>     And directly in relation to this issue at hand:
>
>     If you learn Windows, you're stuck there.  Learning anything else is
> foreign.  If you learn Linux, you can learn anything else from there. 
> They're gonna GET Microsoft immersion once they get out.  
>
>      The same goes for programming: In Linux, you tend to lean towards
> ANSI C and standard programming, not proprietary development
> environments.  And you'll learn HOW the things work...not how the tools
> mask it for ya.  You'll know what a stack is, and why you don't crash
> it...ya know?