From jason.waskiewicz at sendit.nodak.edu Fri Aug 1 22:25:20 2008 From: jason.waskiewicz at sendit.nodak.edu (Jason Waskiewicz) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:25:20 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 - Bad Image Message-ID: <48938D50.3000700@sendit.nodak.edu> I've been successfully using K12LTSP for several years. I always liked it because it just worked. I have updated to Fedora 9. I've now attempted to install LTSP twice. Both times, I get the same error when I attempt to run a client. It identifies itself and the server, it sees the DHCP. Then, when it should load the software, the client says that I have a bad image. It runs through this over and over with no success. Any advice out there? --Jason Waskiewicz Bowman County School From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sat Aug 2 03:24:20 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 23:24:20 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 - Bad Image In-Reply-To: <48938D50.3000700@sendit.nodak.edu> References: <48938D50.3000700@sendit.nodak.edu> Message-ID: <1217647460.23422.21.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Sounds like the PXE boot kernel image is corrupted. Check the status of the files with rpm -V ltsp-server If it shows as corrupted, rpm -e ltsp-server && yum install ltsp-server On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 16:25 -0600, Jason Waskiewicz wrote: > I've been successfully using K12LTSP for several years. I always liked > it because it just worked. > > I have updated to Fedora 9. I've now attempted to install LTSP twice. > Both times, I get the same error when I attempt to run a client. > > It identifies itself and the server, it sees the DHCP. Then, when it > should load the software, the client says that I have a bad image. It > runs through this over and over with no success. > > Any advice out there? > > --Jason Waskiewicz > Bowman County School > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From cfiaime at cfiaime.com Sun Aug 3 22:06:07 2008 From: cfiaime at cfiaime.com (jeff williams) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 16:06:07 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Default wallpaper for Gnome Message-ID: <200808031606.08126.cfiaime@cfiaime.com> Greetings... Although I have worked a lot with KDE, I have little background with Gnome. With that being said, I am looking for the instructions on setting the system wide default wallpaper for Gnome sessions. This is a new K12LTSP installation, and I am pretty low on the configuration learning curve. BTW, there is no discussion of this which I can find on the K12LTSP WiKi. Many thanks. -- jeff williams - cfiaime at cfiaime.com From SteveSings at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 02:24:37 2008 From: SteveSings at gmail.com (Stephen Crampton) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 22:24:37 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Proposed Curriculum for Open Source Lab Message-ID: I was asked to develop curriculum to support the institution of an Open Source lab at my middle school. I would appreciate any comments that anyone has on my draft, which I put here: http://www.stevec.org/map.pdf Thanks, Steve Crampton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Mon Aug 4 13:09:16 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 09:09:16 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Default wallpaper for Gnome In-Reply-To: <200808031606.08126.cfiaime@cfiaime.com> References: <200808031606.08126.cfiaime@cfiaime.com> Message-ID: <4896FF7C.9090009@biochemfluidics.com> If you log in as root, there will be an icon on the desktop that says "Set the default background image". I think you just double-click that, and it will make everybody's wallpaper be the same as root's current wallpaper. Note that this does not lock down the wallpaper settings. Users are still free to change it. In fact, if they have already changed it I think their wallpaper will not be affected by this. If you want to lock down the wallpaper settings, you need to use gconf or gconf-editor (GUI). Here's the easy way: Change root's wallpaper to the wallpaper you want all users to have. As root, go to Applications, System Tools, Configuration Editor. Go to desktop, gnome, background. Right-click on "picture_filename" and choose "Set as Mandatory" That should do it, but I haven't tested. If anybody sees any mistakes, please speak up. -Rob jeff williams wrote: > Greetings... > > Although I have worked a lot with KDE, I have little background with Gnome. > With that being said, I am looking for the instructions on setting the system > wide default wallpaper for Gnome sessions. > > This is a new K12LTSP installation, and I am pretty low on the configuration > learning curve. BTW, there is no discussion of this which I can find on the > K12LTSP WiKi. > > Many thanks. ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From SteveSings at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 19:13:40 2008 From: SteveSings at gmail.com (Stephen Crampton) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:13:40 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Proposal for Middle School Computer Lab Message-ID: Thanks so much for everyone who commented on my earlier draft! Based upon your comments, I have revised my draft. I also put my overview, hardware request, and curriculum into one document. It's here: http://www.stevec.org/proposal-part1.pdf http://www.stevec.org/proposal-part2.pdf The reason there are two pdfs is that the second part of the document is in landscape format. I would really appreciate any comments any of you might have. Thanks, Steve Crampton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karen at k12opened.com Tue Aug 5 16:03:00 2008 From: karen at k12opened.com (Karen Fasimpaur) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:03:00 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Open Dictionary Message-ID: <20080805160307.8CEAA2FB71@coal.k12handhelds.com> We have recently launched the first completely open kids dictionary (http://dictionary.k12opened.com) and are getting the word out to folks who might be interested in using or working on it. This dictionary is intended for kids, though it can certainly be used for adult learners as well. As words are completed, they will be reviewed for quality and appropriateness and ultimately "frozen" for export into a variety of formats, including text, PDF, ebooks, wikis, web, etc., for use on a variety of devices. This work is being licensed as a public domain resource that anyone can use for any purpose. We see this as a fundamental building block for many OER projects and hope that it will be used by teachers, students, publishers, hardware manufacturers, VARs, and others. We have just launched a build-your-own-glossary tool (which exports to rtf, pdf, and wikitext; more formats to come.) Over time, we will be adding other new features, such as audio pronunciations, pictures, support for additional languages, and a wide variety of export functions. This is a mass collaboration project, and we hope that many people around the world will jump in and add a definition or two. We would love to see you at the dictionary at http://dictionary.k12opened.com and hope that you will also spread the word to others. Thank you. Regards, Karen Fasimpaur K12 Open Ed From robark at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 09:15:42 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 02:15:42 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released Message-ID: Download it here http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/download.html Here are the detailed install instructions http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html I have not yet updated screenshots on my website. Please send bug reports to me. Thanks. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From peter at scheie.homedns.org Thu Aug 7 13:15:40 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:15:40 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <489AF57C.8050209@scheie.homedns.org> Attaboy Rob! Well done! You forgot to mention the hot new feature in this latest version: thumbnail images of the users' desktops (rather than just the list of users by name). This will make this much more intuitive for use by teachers, technophobes or otherwise. Thanks for all your work on this. I'll be taking it out for a spin tonight. Peter Robert Arkiletian wrote: > Download it here > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/download.html > > Here are the detailed install instructions > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html > > I have not yet updated screenshots on my website. > > Please send bug reports to me. Thanks. > From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Thu Aug 7 12:22:09 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:22:09 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1218111729.4554.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Awesome work, Robert!! On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 02:15 -0700, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > Download it here > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/download.html > > Here are the detailed install instructions > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html > > I have not yet updated screenshots on my website. > > Please send bug reports to me. Thanks. > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From henryhartley at westat.com Thu Aug 7 14:48:24 2008 From: henryhartley at westat.com (Henry Hartley) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 10:48:24 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Motherboard Manufacturer Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <403593359CA56C4CAE1F8F4F00DCFE7D07E2093A@MAILBE2.westat.com> Message-ID: <403593359CA56C4CAE1F8F4F00DCFE7D07E20A08@MAILBE2.westat.com> Henry Hartley wrote: >> >> I've burned CDs with 64-bit versions of both Fedora 9 and K12LTSP >> 5EL. I'll try F9 first but I understand that's not "done" yet with >> LTSP 5. I have CentOS 5 running (without the LTSP stuff) on a >> couple other machines and I'm pretty happy with it but it's always >> nice to show off the bleeding edge stuff. Anyway, it's worth a try. Back in town and finally following up on my own thread of a month ago. I got the machine put together and yesterday installed the CentOS 5 based K12LTSP. One small but significant problem and something to be aware of if you plan to use that package. The motherboard I got (Asus M2A-VM) includes a Realtec 8111/8168B gigabit Ethernet controller. Unfortunately, CentOS through version 5.1 does NOT support it. It is (I understand - see link below) mostly supported by version 5.2 but as the CDs I burned are 5.0, that's not much help. In general, that wouldn't be a problem since the normal procedure is to install 5.0 and then run yum update to get the latest and greatest. But when the Ethernet controller doesn't work, that's sort of hard. There are plenty of ways to get around this, so it's not a show stopper but it's something you should be aware of if your system uses this ethernet controller. In any case I decided, given this small road block, that I might as well give Fedora 9 and LTSP 5 a try. Fedora 9 recognized the 8168 controller as well as all other devices with no problems and seems to be working well (although I haven't gotten to the LTSP part yet). Still, looks good. Thanks again for all the help, for this list and (to those who actually write this stuff) for the software itself. It's brilliant. Realtek TRL8111B / RTL8168B NIC http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/HardwareList/RealTekRTL8111b -- Henry From carl at snarlnet.com Thu Aug 7 19:01:03 2008 From: carl at snarlnet.com (Carl Keil) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:01:03 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" Message-ID: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> Hey Folks, I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I have enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID 5. Anyway, when people say "software RAID" do they mean just setting up a RAID in LVM Manager? Or is the mdadm command the simpler, more robust, preferred way to do this? I never thought about using LVM for this before, but the last time I was in there I noticed some RAID options. This is for a Samba/LDAP/home directory server. Thanks, ck From microman at cmosnetworks.com Thu Aug 7 19:20:21 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:20:21 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> Carl Keil wrote: > Hey Folks, > > I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a > lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I > have enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID > 5. Anyway, when people say "software RAID" do they mean just setting > up a RAID in LVM Manager? Or is the mdadm command the simpler, more > robust, preferred way to do this? I never thought about using LVM for > this before, but the last time I was in there I noticed some RAID > options. This is for a Samba/LDAP/home directory server. > > Thanks, > > ck "Software RAID" is simply doing the RAID (striping, mirroring, parity, whatever) in the OS instead of on a dedicated card. Windows NT, from at least v3.50 (way back when), can do this, and Linux can do it as well. If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd avoid doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID card. Something like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If you do it in software, you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity calculations, so you definitely want to offload that. However, for just mirroring (say, RAID 1), you should be fine, because the CPU hit for mirroring is minimal. One advantage to using a RAID card is that your array then appears as one big disk. You don't have to go messing around with mdadm or anything else. Now, LVM is something else entirely and not really related to RAID. LVM is a way of partitioning disks that allows you to easily add or subtract space from what's called a "volume". A "volume" in an LVM setup appears to the OS as a disk partition. Windows NT calls this "volume groups". It works on individual disks as well as arrays. You can in fact take several disk arrays (say, three or four RAID 5's), throw all of them into one of these "volumes", and that entire volume appears as one partition-like entity to the OS. So, LVM is more of a SAN technology than a RAID technology. Hope this helps, --TP From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Thu Aug 7 19:51:10 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:51:10 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <1218138670.14832.33.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 15:20 -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > "Software RAID" is simply doing the RAID (striping, mirroring, parity, > whatever) in the OS instead of on a dedicated card. Windows NT, from at > least v3.50 (way back when), can do this, and Linux can do it as well. > > If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd avoid > doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID card. > Something like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If you do it in > software, you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity calculations, so you > definitely want to offload that. However, for just mirroring (say, RAID > 1), you should be fine, because the CPU hit for mirroring is minimal. > > One advantage to using a RAID card is that your array then appears as > one big disk. You don't have to go messing around with mdadm or > anything else. > > Now, LVM is something else entirely and not really related to RAID. LVM > is a way of partitioning disks that allows you to easily add or subtract > space from what's called a "volume". A "volume" in an LVM setup appears > to the OS as a disk partition. Windows NT calls this "volume groups". > It works on individual disks as well as arrays. You can in fact take > several disk arrays (say, three or four RAID 5's), throw all of them > into one of these "volumes", and that entire volume appears as one > partition-like entity to the OS. So, LVM is more of a SAN technology > than a RAID technology. > > Hope this helps, > > --TP To further elaborate: Software RAID is best used for mirrors and stripes only (RAID 1 & 0 ). The parity calculation is a performance drag on software RAID and is best done by dedicated hardware. The RedHat/Fedora/CEntOS (and others) have the ability to install using software raid for the target drives. You can use RAID to build a disk system that LVM then uses as a PV with logical volumes on the physical volume. It can get seemingly complicated but it allows ultimate flexibility. Picture this: You build a machine with 4 300GB drives. You can create a RAID5 array of 3+1 (3 active and 1 hot spare), RAID10 (mirrored pair, mirrored pair, striped across both for speed), or any other combo you can think of. I like mirrored pairs of same size but different brand drives. Now plop LVM on top of this: The RAID array is a physical volume group. It is logically subdivided into logical volumes for different mount points (/home is good to keep separate as is /var and /opt and /usr/local). With a setup like this the size is not as critical because the lv's can be resized non-destructively! Run out of room on /home? No problem! Shrink /opt and give the extra space to /home. Add a new drive? No Problem! Add the new drive to the PVG and attach it to what ever LV that needs extending. Is it more complicated? Absolutely! But with the gift of really expanded flexibility. For me, the huge advantage of software RAID is I can work the stack remotely with a live machine in nearly all cases. With many types of hardware RAID the machine must be in a non-running, at the bios console state and thus no users are on the machine. The advantage of hardware RAID is with the battery backup write buffers. You can get some good speed improvements from those write process that are buffered on the RAID card. -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Thu Aug 7 20:33:17 2008 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:33:17 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <994441ae0808071333h45511599k560265d4095d5b43@mail.gmail.com> Regardless of the tool you use, be sure you're comfortable with the process used to replace a disk. A clear downside to software RAID is that there are many commands involved; hardware RAID is usually just "yank and replace". -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Carl Keil wrote: > Hey Folks, > > I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a lot. > I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I have enough > disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID 5. Anyway, when > people say "software RAID" do they mean just setting up a RAID in LVM > Manager? Or is the mdadm command the simpler, more robust, preferred way to > do this? I never thought about using LVM for this before, but the last time > I was in there I noticed some RAID options. This is for a Samba/LDAP/home > directory server. > > Thanks, > > ck > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From rowens at ptd.net Fri Aug 8 00:13:05 2008 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:13:05 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 03:20:21PM -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Carl Keil wrote: > >Hey Folks, > > > >I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a > >lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I > >have enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID > >5. Anyway, when people say "software RAID" do they mean just setting > >up a RAID in LVM Manager? Or is the mdadm command the simpler, more > >robust, preferred way to do this? I never thought about using LVM for > >this before, but the last time I was in there I noticed some RAID > >options. This is for a Samba/LDAP/home directory server. > > > >Thanks, > > > >ck > > "Software RAID" is simply doing the RAID (striping, mirroring, parity, > whatever) in the OS instead of on a dedicated card. Windows NT, from at > least v3.50 (way back when), can do this, and Linux can do it as well. > > If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd avoid > doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID card. > Something like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If you do it in > software, you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity calculations, so you > definitely want to offload that. However, for just mirroring (say, RAID > 1), you should be fine, because the CPU hit for mirroring is minimal. > I hear lots of people talk about the CPU hit of software RAID. But how much hit is there really? Suppose for argument's sake I can get a hardware RAID card for $100. If I instead used software RAID and spent my $100 on a better CPU, wouldn't I be ahead of the game? -Rob From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Aug 8 00:35:11 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:35:11 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> Message-ID: <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> Rob Owens wrote: > On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 03:20:21PM -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > >> Carl Keil wrote: >> >>> Hey Folks, >>> >>> I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a >>> lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I >>> have enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID >>> 5. Anyway, when people say "software RAID" do they mean just setting >>> up a RAID in LVM Manager? Or is the mdadm command the simpler, more >>> robust, preferred way to do this? I never thought about using LVM for >>> this before, but the last time I was in there I noticed some RAID >>> options. This is for a Samba/LDAP/home directory server. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> ck >>> >> "Software RAID" is simply doing the RAID (striping, mirroring, parity, >> whatever) in the OS instead of on a dedicated card. Windows NT, from at >> least v3.50 (way back when), can do this, and Linux can do it as well. >> >> If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd avoid >> doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID card. >> Something like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If you do it in >> software, you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity calculations, so you >> definitely want to offload that. However, for just mirroring (say, RAID >> 1), you should be fine, because the CPU hit for mirroring is minimal. >> >> > I hear lots of people talk about the CPU hit of software RAID. But how much hit is there really? Suppose for argument's sake I can get a hardware RAID card for $100. If I instead used software RAID and spent my $100 on a better CPU, wouldn't I be ahead of the game? > > -Rob > No, I don't believe so. For one thing, as Dan Young put it, it's much easier to deal with swapping a failed disk out with a dedicated card. That by itself is a *BIG DEAL*. Additionally, if you do have a disk fail, your CPU will take an especially big hit, because then it's got to reconstruct data from the parity info for *all* disk accesses, not just writes. Oops.... Furthermore, you don't have to depend on the OS for reading your RAID. As long as it's a well-known FOSS-supported card, you can slap it into a FreeBSD, Net/OpenBSD, Linux, MS Windows, probably even Apple's Mac OS X. Much more flexibility. This has saved my butt before. If you're going to do RAID 5, then do it right and get a real RAID card. You'll be better off in the long run. --TP From sbarar at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 01:24:08 2008 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 06:54:08 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> [LOTS OF SNIPS] >>>> I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a >>>> lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I have >>>> enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID 5. Anyway, >>> >>> If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd avoid >>> doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID card. Something >>> like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If you do it in software, >>> you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity calculations, so you definitely want >>> to offload that. However, for just mirroring (say, RAID 1), you should be >>> fine, because the CPU hit for mirroring is minimal. >> >> I hear lots of people talk about the CPU hit of software RAID. But how >> much hit is there really? Suppose for argument's sake I can get a hardware >> RAID card for $100. If I instead used software RAID and spent my $100 on a >> better CPU, wouldn't I be ahead of the game? > > No, I don't believe so. For one thing, as Dan Young put it, it's much > easier to deal with swapping a failed disk out with a dedicated card. That > by itself is a *BIG DEAL*. Additionally, if you do have a disk fail, your > CPU will take an especially big hit, because then it's got to reconstruct > data from the parity info for *all* disk accesses, not just writes. > Oops.... > > Furthermore, you don't have to depend on the OS for reading your RAID. As > long as it's a well-known FOSS-supported card, you can slap it into a > FreeBSD, Net/OpenBSD, Linux, MS Windows, probably even Apple's Mac OS X. > Much more flexibility. This has saved my butt before. Hmm.. I have been using and advising software raids simply because I do not know of any FOSS programs / enabled cards that will monitor and report RAID status. Non-FOSS solutions run on Window$. So how do you know about RAID status? I find that pretty easy using mdadm and as Rob put it I hardly see any CPU overhead. Yes it is there when you are re-bulding arrays but I have done disk swap on a running machine and rebuilt RAID (level 1) without any user complaining of LTSP slow down. I would appreciate if a hardware RAID resource list can be compiled for RAID cards and monitoring software. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Fri Aug 8 02:00:21 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:00:21 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1218160821.14832.46.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 06:54 +0530, Sudev Barar wrote: > [LOTS OF SNIPS] > > No, I don't believe so. For one thing, as Dan Young put it, it's much > > easier to deal with swapping a failed disk out with a dedicated card. That > > by itself is a *BIG DEAL*. Additionally, if you do have a disk fail, your > > CPU will take an especially big hit, because then it's got to reconstruct > > data from the parity info for *all* disk accesses, not just writes. > > Oops.... > > > > Furthermore, you don't have to depend on the OS for reading your RAID. As > > long as it's a well-known FOSS-supported card, you can slap it into a > > FreeBSD, Net/OpenBSD, Linux, MS Windows, probably even Apple's Mac OS X. > > Much more flexibility. This has saved my butt before. > > Hmm.. I have been using and advising software raids simply because I > do not know of any FOSS programs / enabled cards that will monitor and > report RAID status. Non-FOSS solutions run on Window$. > > So how do you know about RAID status? I find that pretty easy using > mdadm and as Rob put it I hardly see any CPU overhead. Yes it is there > when you are re-bulding arrays but I have done disk swap on a running > machine and rebuilt RAID (level 1) without any user complaining of > LTSP slow down. > > I would appreciate if a hardware RAID resource list can be compiled > for RAID cards and monitoring software. Most current RAID card maker support Linux. They would be fools to do otherwise. Most have some sort of linux app (usually cli) that allows admin access to status info. Some have maintenance abilities as well. My take (which is different from Terrel's) is there is no compelling reason to use RAID5 any more. It was created during a time when hard drives were horribly expensive. With N drives you had N-1 storage. With RAID1 you only had N/2 storage. If you are using SCSI or SAS drives (expen$ive!) then RAID5 is a good idea to spread the cost around. But a 1TB SATA 300 drive is only $300. That will buy a single 300GB SCSI or a 500GB SAS. If the RAID card dies, it becomes hit or miss for data recover on replacement. If the card maker has changed something in the cad, you may or may not be able to recover the drives. I've been bit by this and it's why I don't use hardware RAID. With software RAID I can pull the drives out of a dead machine and they will work in a new machine. All I need o do is make sure the bootable drive is on a primary position for the BIOS. Enterprise class SATA 300 drives can be hot swapped by adding hot swap drive trays to a tower. It's really all about analizing your needs and choosing the best route from the data. -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Aug 8 02:00:37 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:00:37 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489BA8C5.6090601@cmosnetworks.com> Sudev Barar wrote: > [LOTS OF SNIPS] > >>>>> I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a >>>>> lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I have >>>>> enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID 5. Anyway, >>>>> >>>> If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd avoid >>>> doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID card. Something >>>> like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If you do it in software, >>>> you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity calculations, so you definitely want >>>> to offload that. However, for just mirroring (say, RAID 1), you should be >>>> fine, because the CPU hit for mirroring is minimal. >>>> >>> I hear lots of people talk about the CPU hit of software RAID. But how >>> much hit is there really? Suppose for argument's sake I can get a hardware >>> RAID card for $100. If I instead used software RAID and spent my $100 on a >>> better CPU, wouldn't I be ahead of the game? >>> >> No, I don't believe so. For one thing, as Dan Young put it, it's much >> easier to deal with swapping a failed disk out with a dedicated card. That >> by itself is a *BIG DEAL*. Additionally, if you do have a disk fail, your >> CPU will take an especially big hit, because then it's got to reconstruct >> data from the parity info for *all* disk accesses, not just writes. >> Oops.... >> >> Furthermore, you don't have to depend on the OS for reading your RAID. As >> long as it's a well-known FOSS-supported card, you can slap it into a >> FreeBSD, Net/OpenBSD, Linux, MS Windows, probably even Apple's Mac OS X. >> Much more flexibility. This has saved my butt before. >> > > Hmm.. I have been using and advising software raids simply because I > do not know of any FOSS programs / enabled cards that will monitor and > report RAID status. Non-FOSS solutions run on Window$. > > So how do you know about RAID status? I find that pretty easy using > mdadm and as Rob put it I hardly see any CPU overhead. Yes it is there > when you are re-bulding arrays but I have done disk swap on a running > machine and rebuilt RAID (level 1) without any user complaining of > LTSP slow down. > > I would appreciate if a hardware RAID resource list can be compiled > for RAID cards and monitoring software He wants RAID 5, not RAID 1. That calls for hardware RAID. And as for the monitoring, the LSI MegaRAID cards have two ways. The first method is a (binary-only) Linux program called "megarc" that will do that. Should come on the CD with your MegaRAID card. The second method is to check /proc/megaraid. This is how the Nagios plugin does it. On OpenBSD, I use the "bioctl" command to do everything. If you want hardware RAID on GNU/Linux or any other FOSS system, I say go with LSI. Unlike 3ware/Adaptec/others, LSI actually releases the programming specs for their cards, which is why they're supported by virtually every OS on the planet. The sole exception to that rule is the MegaRAID SAS 8200 series, which are cheap pieces of binary-blob-requiring crap. Every other MegaRAID card (150-x, 8300, 8400, 320SCSI, etc.) is fine. --TP From atmlogic at kmts.ca Fri Aug 8 03:31:15 2008 From: atmlogic at kmts.ca (Andrew @ ATM Logic) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:31:15 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <10C658A8298344E399E6C9956A76DC75@ATMLogic.local> You can take the advice of whoever you want... However I have posted to this list at least 3 to 4 time after FAILED software raid 5......... It puts you in an ugly spot, with little to no support.. Many will tell you to stick with a mirror if going software... Its simple, and it works, and hard to get hosed. I have been lucky and recovered from a few software raid 5 failures. SIMPLY PUT.... NEVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN.... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Buy bigger disks, and a mirror. SIMPLE. Failing that get some cash and go full hardware. Just my 43 Cents... ---Andrew > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com > [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Carl Keil > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 2:01 PM > To: k12osn at redhat.com > Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" > > Hey Folks, > > I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the > list a lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a > school and I have enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm > leaning towards RAID 5. > Anyway, when people say "software RAID" do they mean just > setting up a RAID in LVM Manager? Or is the mdadm command > the simpler, more robust, preferred way to do this? I never > thought about using LVM for this before, but the last time I > was in there I noticed some RAID options. > This is for a Samba/LDAP/home directory server. > > Thanks, > > ck > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From atmlogic at kmts.ca Fri Aug 8 03:33:51 2008 From: atmlogic at kmts.ca (Andrew @ ATM Logic) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:33:51 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489BA8C5.6090601@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com><489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com><774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> <489BA8C5.6090601@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com > [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Terrell Prude' Jr. > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:01 PM > To: Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" > > Sudev Barar wrote: > > [LOTS OF SNIPS] > > > >>>>> I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" > on the list > >>>>> a lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a > school and > >>>>> I have enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm > leaning towards > >>>>> RAID 5. Anyway, > >>>>> > >>>> If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd > >>>> avoid doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID > >>>> card. Something like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If > >>>> you do it in software, you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity > >>>> calculations, so you definitely want to offload that. > However, for > >>>> just mirroring (say, RAID 1), you should be fine, > because the CPU hit for mirroring is minimal. > >>>> > >>> I hear lots of people talk about the CPU hit of software > RAID. But > >>> how much hit is there really? Suppose for argument's > sake I can get > >>> a hardware RAID card for $100. If I instead used > software RAID and > >>> spent my $100 on a better CPU, wouldn't I be ahead of the game? > >>> > >> No, I don't believe so. For one thing, as Dan Young put it, it's > >> much easier to deal with swapping a failed disk out with a > dedicated > >> card. That by itself is a *BIG DEAL*. Additionally, if > you do have > >> a disk fail, your CPU will take an especially big hit, > because then > >> it's got to reconstruct data from the parity info for > *all* disk accesses, not just writes. > >> Oops.... > >> > >> Furthermore, you don't have to depend on the OS for reading your > >> RAID. As long as it's a well-known FOSS-supported card, > you can slap > >> it into a FreeBSD, Net/OpenBSD, Linux, MS Windows, > probably even Apple's Mac OS X. > >> Much more flexibility. This has saved my butt before. > >> > > > > Hmm.. I have been using and advising software raids simply > because I > > do not know of any FOSS programs / enabled cards that will > monitor and > > report RAID status. Non-FOSS solutions run on Window$. > > > > So how do you know about RAID status? I find that pretty easy using > > mdadm and as Rob put it I hardly see any CPU overhead. Yes > it is there > > when you are re-bulding arrays but I have done disk swap on > a running > > machine and rebuilt RAID (level 1) without any user complaining of > > LTSP slow down. > > > > I would appreciate if a hardware RAID resource list can be compiled > > for RAID cards and monitoring software > > He wants RAID 5, not RAID 1. That calls for hardware RAID. NO, Linux (and Windows) support software raid 5.... However... They are BOTH stupid, and DO NOT WORK WELL and leave you to hang and dry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > And as for the monitoring, the LSI MegaRAID cards have two > ways. The first method is a (binary-only) Linux program > called "megarc" that will do that. Should come on the CD > with your MegaRAID card. The second method is to check > /proc/megaraid. This is how the Nagios plugin does it. On > OpenBSD, I use the "bioctl" command to do everything. > > If you want hardware RAID on GNU/Linux or any other FOSS > system, I say go with LSI. Unlike 3ware/Adaptec/others, LSI > actually releases the programming specs for their cards, > which is why they're supported by virtually every OS on the > planet. The sole exception to that rule is the MegaRAID SAS > 8200 series, which are cheap pieces of binary-blob-requiring > crap. Every other MegaRAID card (150-x, 8300, 8400, 320SCSI, > etc.) is fine. > > --TP > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Aug 8 04:47:06 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:47:06 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com><489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com><774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> <489BA8C5.6090601@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <489BCFCA.9070207@cmosnetworks.com> Andrew @ ATM Logic wrote: > >> He wants RAID 5, not RAID 1. That calls for hardware RAID. >> > > NO, Linux (and Windows) support software raid 5.... However... They are > BOTH stupid, and DO NOT WORK WELL and leave you to hang and > dry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Umm...that's why I recommended hardware RAID. Please do read the original post. Oh, and calm down, too. --TP From onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca Fri Aug 8 05:05:36 2008 From: onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca (Onatawahtaw) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <106394.4320.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go with software RAID the linux installer will not install grub on all hard drives which can be a problem. I am planning myself to install a RAID 1 so I will have to make sure to install grub on both hard drives. I also heard that it is important not to put swap on RAID. But if you go with hardware RAID is swap still a problem? -Kevin From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Aug 8 05:15:10 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 01:15:10 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <106394.4320.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <106394.4320.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <489BD65E.5080906@cmosnetworks.com> Onatawahtaw wrote: > Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go with software RAID the linux installer will not install grub on all hard drives which can be a problem. I am planning myself to install a RAID 1 so I will have to make sure to install grub on both hard drives. I also heard that it is important not to put swap on RAID. But if you go with hardware RAID is swap still a problem? > > -Kevin > If you go with hardware RAID, then the mirror appears to the OS as a single disk. Thus, GRUB, swap, /, /usr/, /etc/, etc. is all automatically mirrored. That is, *anything* on the first disk is automatically put over to the second disk, and yes, booting works just fine if the first disk fails. As for putting swap on RAID, I'd say that depends on which RAID level you choose and specifically how you do your RAID. I'll use an admittedly extreme (by today's standards), but certainly common, mistake that folks would do not so many years ago. If you're doing, say, a mirror with both disks on the same PATA channel, then that's probably not so good for performance. But that's true regardless of what's on such a mirror; they really ought to be on separate disk channels, which SATA does. SCSI, being SCSI, doesn't really have any of those issues. --TP From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Fri Aug 8 05:37:24 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 01:37:24 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489BCFCA.9070207@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> <489BA8C5.6090601@cmosnetworks.com> <489BCFCA.9070207@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <1218173844.14832.54.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 00:47 -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Andrew @ ATM Logic wrote: > > > >> He wants RAID 5, not RAID 1. That calls for hardware RAID. > >> > > > > NO, Linux (and Windows) support software raid 5.... However... They are > > BOTH stupid, and DO NOT WORK WELL and leave you to hang and > > dry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > - Bear in mind: a two drive failure in RAID5 is very very bad. In many cases, recovery is from backups only. If the system is built with sequential serial numbered drives and a manufacturing defect is in one, it very well may spread to others in the array before the array can be rebuilt with the new drive in place. Been there, cursed about it. It doesn't matter if its hardware or software raid if 2 drives fail. Mirrors are easy and reliable. I've seen too many places that actually think RAID5 removes the need for backups! I have had good success with RAID5 recovery using tools from : http://www.runtime.org/ Very affordable and they worked well for me multiple times. They can even be embedded in a Barts PE disk setup to make a live Windows CD with recovery tools. Not that anyone _here_ would need a windows recovery tool... :-) > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From krsnendu108 at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 07:27:00 2008 From: krsnendu108 at gmail.com (Krsnendu dasa) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 19:27:00 +1200 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <1218173844.14832.54.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20808071824h66b82f12qf780a0e56afacc2e@mail.gmail.com> <489BA8C5.6090601@cmosnetworks.com> <489BCFCA.9070207@cmosnetworks.com> <1218173844.14832.54.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Ubuntu Raid still installs grub, but if you install lvm you get lilo instead. 2008/8/8 James P. Kinney III > On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 00:47 -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > > Andrew @ ATM Logic wrote: > > > > > >> He wants RAID 5, not RAID 1. That calls for hardware RAID. > > >> > > > > > > NO, Linux (and Windows) support software raid 5.... However... They > are > > > BOTH stupid, and DO NOT WORK WELL and leave you to hang and > > > dry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > - > Bear in mind: a two drive failure in RAID5 is very very bad. In many > cases, recovery is from backups only. If the system is built with > sequential serial numbered drives and a manufacturing defect is in one, > it very well may spread to others in the array before the array can be > rebuilt with the new drive in place. Been there, cursed about it. It > doesn't matter if its hardware or software raid if 2 drives fail. > > Mirrors are easy and reliable. I've seen too many places that actually > think RAID5 removes the need for backups! > > I have had good success with RAID5 recovery using tools from : > http://www.runtime.org/ > Very affordable and they worked well for me multiple times. They can > even be embedded in a Barts PE disk setup to make a live Windows CD with > recovery tools. > > Not that anyone _here_ would need a windows recovery tool... > :-) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > -- > James P. Kinney III > CEO & Director of Engineering > Local Net Solutions,LLC > http://www.localnetsolutions.com > > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) > > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Fri Aug 8 11:31:18 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:31:18 -0400 Subject: Software RAID 1 and grub -- was Re: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <106394.4320.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <106394.4320.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <489C2E86.3040702@biochemfluidics.com> I believe you are correct. With software RAID 1, grub only gets installed on one hard drive. I've read into this a bit, and there are fairly straightforward ways of working around it. For instance, you can manually copy the boot sector from one drive to another like this (from my "Knoppix Hacks" book): dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=446 count=1 Problem is that grub, in most cases, is set to boot from /dev/sda. If /dev/sda goes bad, you have to plug your second hard disk (the good one) into the first SATA port so that it will be recognized as /dev/sda. Another solution I read about was to add additional grub entries telling grub to boot from /dev/sdb (do this before copying the boot sector to the second drive). Then if /dev/sda fails, you can interact with grub at boot time to tell it to boot "kernel 2.6.xx on /dev/sdb" Does anybody else have any good suggestions? -Rob Onatawahtaw wrote: > Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go with software RAID the linux installer will not install grub on all hard drives which can be a problem. I am planning myself to install a RAID 1 so I will have to make sure to install grub on both hard drives. I also heard that it is important not to put swap on RAID. But if you go with hardware RAID is swap still a problem? > > -Kevin > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Fri Aug 8 11:37:13 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:37:13 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Rob Owens wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 03:20:21PM -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: >> >>> Carl Keil wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Folks, >>>> >>>> I hear people extolling the virtues of "software RAID" on the list a >>>> lot. I'm finally setting up a production server in a school and I >>>> have enough disks to play with to do RAID. I'm leaning towards RAID >>>> 5. Anyway, when people say "software RAID" do they mean just >>>> setting up a RAID in LVM Manager? Or is the mdadm command the >>>> simpler, more robust, preferred way to do this? I never thought >>>> about using LVM for this before, but the last time I was in there I >>>> noticed some RAID options. This is for a Samba/LDAP/home directory >>>> server. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> ck >>>> >>> "Software RAID" is simply doing the RAID (striping, mirroring, >>> parity, whatever) in the OS instead of on a dedicated card. Windows >>> NT, from at least v3.50 (way back when), can do this, and Linux can >>> do it as well. >>> >>> If you're thinking of RAID 5, which is my preferred level, I'd avoid >>> doing it in software and instead opt for a dedicated RAID card. >>> Something like an LSI MegaRAID 150-6 SATA controller. If you do it >>> in software, you'll eat up some CPU doing the parity calculations, so >>> you definitely want to offload that. However, for just mirroring >>> (say, RAID 1), you should be fine, because the CPU hit for mirroring >>> is minimal. >>> >>> >> I hear lots of people talk about the CPU hit of software RAID. But >> how much hit is there really? Suppose for argument's sake I can get a >> hardware RAID card for $100. If I instead used software RAID and >> spent my $100 on a better CPU, wouldn't I be ahead of the game? >> >> -Rob >> > > No, I don't believe so. For one thing, as Dan Young put it, it's much > easier to deal with swapping a failed disk out with a dedicated card. > That by itself is a *BIG DEAL*. Additionally, if you do have a disk > fail, your CPU will take an especially big hit, because then it's got to > reconstruct data from the parity info for *all* disk accesses, not just > writes. Oops.... > I realize the ease-of-use advantage of hardware RAID, but I really was talking about the performance hit only. Realistically, a hardware RAID costs about $300, and that could buy me a 2nd 4-core processor. I have to believe that a modern 4-core processor is way more capable of handling a RAID rebuild than whatever chip is onboard a hardware RAID controller. Of course, I haven't done any testing... Even though we've debated software vs. hardware RAID on this list many times, these discussions always hold my interest. -Rob ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Fri Aug 8 12:59:05 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:59:05 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> Message-ID: <1218200345.1690.13.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 07:37 -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > Realistically, a hardware RAID costs about $300, and that could buy me a > 2nd 4-core processor. I have to believe that a modern 4-core processor > is way more capable of handling a RAID rebuild than whatever chip is > onboard a hardware RAID controller. Of course, I haven't done any > testing... Most of the hardware RAID devices I have read full specs on use a PowerPC chip for their brain so they have some horsepower behind their abilities. The overhead for software RAID will depend very heavily on how the system is built and configured. A crappy chipset will give crappy performance. A chipset that can parallel-pipeline data through to multiple PCI busses will smoke the charts. But those chipsets will only be on the high-end server-class boards. But those are the boards you want to be using anyway. :-) Bear in mind that the real performance hit happens on the write. During a read you can actually get a speedup using multiple spindles (on multiple channels - single channel with multi-drive will be the speed of one drive). This holds true for both hardware and software RAID. The hardware RAID will be then limited by the bus speed of the slot it's plugged into. Software RAID might outperform here if the chipset is good and provides multiple lanes for sata socket traffic. Few boards do this. For LTSP use, with heavily shared hard drive space on a 100-seat server, the cpu's will be taxed at 100% load all the time. Go hardware on this set-up. If you have a classroom server with a single-chip, dual core athalon, go software. -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From lesmikesell at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 14:56:58 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:56:58 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> Message-ID: <489C5EBA.4050601@gmail.com> Rob Owens wrote: > >> >> No, I don't believe so. For one thing, as Dan Young put it, it's much >> easier to deal with swapping a failed disk out with a dedicated card. >> That by itself is a *BIG DEAL*. Additionally, if you do have a disk >> fail, your CPU will take an especially big hit, because then it's got >> to reconstruct data from the parity info for *all* disk accesses, not >> just writes. Oops.... >> > I realize the ease-of-use advantage of hardware RAID, but I really was > talking about the performance hit only. The performance hit mostly goes away if you use RAID1 instead of 5 (or the other direction - raid5 usually hurts performance unless you have 12 or more drives in the set), but then you lose disk space. > Realistically, a hardware RAID costs about $300, and that could buy me a > 2nd 4-core processor. I have to believe that a modern 4-core processor > is way more capable of handling a RAID rebuild than whatever chip is > onboard a hardware RAID controller. Of course, I haven't done any > testing... I'd think in terms of the difference in cost of software raid1 vs. hardware raid5 instead - that is, the extra disk space for full redundancy vs parity - and perhaps more drive bays in the server. If you have extra money in the mix, throwing in more RAM will almost always be a win in performance since it acts as a disk buffer and will eliminate the need for a lot of seeks and reads. > Even though we've debated software vs. hardware RAID on this list many > times, these discussions always hold my interest. The technology and pricing makes it a moving target. A lot of server-class machines will have hardware RAID on the motherboard so it may not even be an extra-cost item, and some of the newer ones will mix and match SAS and SATA so you can balance performance and cost on the same hot-swap backplane. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Fri Aug 8 15:47:02 2008 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:47:02 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> Message-ID: <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Rob Owens wrote: > I realize the ease-of-use advantage of hardware RAID, but I really was > talking about the performance hit only. > > Realistically, a hardware RAID costs about $300, and that could buy me a 2nd > 4-core processor. I have to believe that a modern 4-core processor is way > more capable of handling a RAID rebuild than whatever chip is onboard a > hardware RAID controller. Of course, I haven't done any testing... If you have a md on Linux running somewhere, try "dmesg | grep raid". You'll see that the kernel tests several checksum algorithms, some using SIMD ISA extensions: raid5: automatically using best checksumming function: pIII_sse pIII_sse : 2604.000 MB/sec raid5: using function: pIII_sse (2604.000 MB/sec) raid6: int32x1 312 MB/s raid6: int32x2 375 MB/s raid6: int32x4 351 MB/s raid6: int32x8 339 MB/s raid6: mmxx1 1023 MB/s raid6: mmxx2 1238 MB/s raid6: sse1x1 921 MB/s raid6: sse1x2 1261 MB/s raid6: using algorithm sse1x2 (1261 MB/s) -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Fri Aug 8 17:16:45 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:16:45 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> Dan Young wrote: > On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Rob Owens wrote: >> I realize the ease-of-use advantage of hardware RAID, but I really was >> talking about the performance hit only. >> >> Realistically, a hardware RAID costs about $300, and that could buy me a 2nd >> 4-core processor. I have to believe that a modern 4-core processor is way >> more capable of handling a RAID rebuild than whatever chip is onboard a >> hardware RAID controller. Of course, I haven't done any testing... > > If you have a md on Linux running somewhere, try "dmesg | grep raid". > You'll see that the kernel tests several checksum algorithms, some > using SIMD ISA extensions: > > raid5: automatically using best checksumming function: pIII_sse > pIII_sse : 2604.000 MB/sec > raid5: using function: pIII_sse (2604.000 MB/sec) > raid6: int32x1 312 MB/s > raid6: int32x2 375 MB/s > raid6: int32x4 351 MB/s > raid6: int32x8 339 MB/s > raid6: mmxx1 1023 MB/s > raid6: mmxx2 1238 MB/s > raid6: sse1x1 921 MB/s > raid6: sse1x2 1261 MB/s > raid6: using algorithm sse1x2 (1261 MB/s) > I don't see any of that info on my systems with software RAID 1. What do those values mean? Are they read speads? Write speeds? Thanks in advance for educating me. -Rob ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Fri Aug 8 17:24:02 2008 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:24:02 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> Message-ID: <994441ae0808081024n2beb20c8gcdd6b21a256d147c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Rob Owens wrote: > Dan Young wrote: >> >> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Rob Owens >> wrote: >>> >>> I realize the ease-of-use advantage of hardware RAID, but I really was >>> talking about the performance hit only. >>> >>> Realistically, a hardware RAID costs about $300, and that could buy me a >>> 2nd >>> 4-core processor. I have to believe that a modern 4-core processor is >>> way >>> more capable of handling a RAID rebuild than whatever chip is onboard a >>> hardware RAID controller. Of course, I haven't done any testing... >> >> If you have a md on Linux running somewhere, try "dmesg | grep raid". >> You'll see that the kernel tests several checksum algorithms, some >> using SIMD ISA extensions: >> >> raid5: automatically using best checksumming function: pIII_sse >> pIII_sse : 2604.000 MB/sec >> raid5: using function: pIII_sse (2604.000 MB/sec) >> raid6: int32x1 312 MB/s >> raid6: int32x2 375 MB/s >> raid6: int32x4 351 MB/s >> raid6: int32x8 339 MB/s >> raid6: mmxx1 1023 MB/s >> raid6: mmxx2 1238 MB/s >> raid6: sse1x1 921 MB/s >> raid6: sse1x2 1261 MB/s >> raid6: using algorithm sse1x2 (1261 MB/s) >> > I don't see any of that info on my systems with software RAID 1. There's no parity calculation for RAID 1, it's just a mirror copy. > What do > those values mean? Are they read speads? Write speeds? I would presume it's the speed at which the processor can XOR your data. -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 From lesmikesell at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 19:24:03 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:24:03 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> Message-ID: <489C9D53.5050201@gmail.com> Rob Owens wrote: > >> raid5: automatically using best checksumming function: pIII_sse >> pIII_sse : 2604.000 MB/sec >> raid5: using function: pIII_sse (2604.000 MB/sec) > I don't see any of that info on my systems with software RAID 1. Raid1 doesn't do any calculations - it just tells the hardware to write twice and reads from whichever copy is faster. Any performance hit comes from CPU involvement during writes (not much unless you are on old IDE or USB connections) or overloading the PCI bus. > What > do those values mean? Are they read speads? Write speeds? That's the math to compute the parity that needs to be written along with the data. And if you have a failed drive in the set it will do a similar computation to reconstruct the data in degraded mode (where raid1 just reads the other copy at full speed). -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From nadavkav at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 19:48:36 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:48:36 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: <1218111729.4554.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <1218111729.4554.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808081248m578f008w4f2207d14300fe69@mail.gmail.com> is there utf-8 support in fltk ? On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:22 PM, James P. Kinney III < jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote: > Awesome work, Robert!! > > On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 02:15 -0700, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > > Download it here > > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/download.html > > > > Here are the detailed install instructions > > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html > > > > I have not yet updated screenshots on my website. > > > > Please send bug reports to me. Thanks. > > > > -- > > Robert Arkiletian > > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > -- > James P. Kinney III > CEO & Director of Engineering > Local Net Solutions,LLC > http://www.localnetsolutions.com > > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) > > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 21:08:39 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:08:39 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: <4219988b0808081248m578f008w4f2207d14300fe69@mail.gmail.com> References: <1218111729.4554.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808081248m578f008w4f2207d14300fe69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2008/8/8 Nadav Kavalerchik : > is there utf-8 support in fltk ? > 1.1.9 (stable) does not and will never 1.3 (under dev) currently does not but will in the future 2.0 (under dev) currently does but is unstable plus my code is written in 1.x (API) see this http://www.fltk.org/articles.php?L825 for a comparison but there are people working on utf8 support. Here is a recent snip from such a person ========== Use a patched version of fltk-1.1.x that knows about Unicode (encoded as UTF-8) and load a Unicode font that supports the Cyrillic glyphs. Many fonts have names like "something-LGC.ttf" for example, where the LGC means that the font has support for the Latin, Greek and Cyrillic Unicode pages. (Very few Unicode fonts are "pan-fonts", i.e. including all the Unicode font pages, because they become huge...) My patched version of fltk-1.1.8 is at: http://www.9edgedown.talktalk.net/fltk/fltk118-utf8-2008-02-24.tar.bz2 ============ -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From nadavkav at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 13:17:52 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:17:52 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: References: <1218111729.4554.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808081248m578f008w4f2207d14300fe69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808090617u13d2c5dflb89d4bee40b4dcf@mail.gmail.com> i got lost in fltk site. (trying to figure which version got utf-8 support) thank you so much, for making that clear :-) i have already started to port your fl_teachertool to fltk 2.0dev if i am successful, i will send it back to you :-) On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 12:08 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > 2008/8/8 Nadav Kavalerchik : > > is there utf-8 support in fltk ? > > > > 1.1.9 (stable) does not and will never > 1.3 (under dev) currently does not but will in the future > 2.0 (under dev) currently does but is unstable plus my code is written > in 1.x (API) > > see this http://www.fltk.org/articles.php?L825 > for a comparison > > but there are people working on utf8 support. Here is a recent snip > from such a person > > ========== > Use a patched version of fltk-1.1.x that knows about Unicode > (encoded as UTF-8) and load a Unicode font that supports the Cyrillic > glyphs. Many fonts have names like "something-LGC.ttf" for example, > where the LGC means that the font has support for the Latin, Greek and > Cyrillic Unicode pages. (Very few Unicode fonts are "pan-fonts", i.e. > including all the Unicode font pages, because they become huge...) > > My patched version of fltk-1.1.8 is at: > > http://www.9edgedown.talktalk.net/fltk/fltk118-utf8-2008-02-24.tar.bz2 > ============ > > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 13:19:28 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 09:19:28 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489C9D53.5050201@gmail.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> <489C9D53.5050201@gmail.com> Message-ID: I"ve enjoyed reading this thread, but have a question: I thought one of the reasons to continue using RAID 5 vs RAID 1 was speed. Tests on my systems show that the RAID 5 I/O is at least 3x the speed of RAID 1. I have hardware based RAID (either 3ware SATA controllers (large disks) or Adaptec SCSI). I put the OS on a RAID 1, and all data (e.g. /home) is on a RAID 5. I know I could get very cheap SATA drives and my controllers support mirroring so perhaps that is the next step. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: > Rob Owens wrote: >> >>> raid5: automatically using best checksumming function: pIII_sse >>> pIII_sse : 2604.000 MB/sec >>> raid5: using function: pIII_sse (2604.000 MB/sec) > >> I don't see any of that info on my systems with software RAID 1. > > Raid1 doesn't do any calculations - it just tells the hardware to write > twice and reads from whichever copy is faster. Any performance hit comes > from CPU involvement during writes (not much unless you are on old IDE or > USB connections) or overloading the PCI bus. > >> What >> >> do those values mean? Are they read speads? Write speeds? > > That's the math to compute the parity that needs to be written along with > the data. And if you have a failed drive in the set it will do a similar > computation to reconstruct the data in degraded mode (where raid1 just reads > the other copy at full speed). > > -- > Les Mikesell > lesmikesell at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 17:08:55 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 10:08:55 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: <4219988b0808090617u13d2c5dflb89d4bee40b4dcf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1218111729.4554.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808081248m578f008w4f2207d14300fe69@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808090617u13d2c5dflb89d4bee40b4dcf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2008/8/9 Nadav Kavalerchik : > i got lost in fltk site. (trying to figure which version got utf-8 support) > thank you so much, for making that clear :-) > > i have already started to port your fl_teachertool to fltk 2.0dev > if i am successful, i will send it back to you :-) > Did this version not work? >> ========== >> Use a patched version of fltk-1.1.x that knows about Unicode >> (encoded as UTF-8) and load a Unicode font that supports the Cyrillic >> glyphs. Many fonts have names like "something-LGC.ttf" for example, >> where the LGC means that the font has support for the Latin, Greek and >> Cyrillic Unicode pages. (Very few Unicode fonts are "pan-fonts", i.e. >> including all the Unicode font pages, because they become huge...) >> >> My patched version of fltk-1.1.8 is at: >> >> http://www.9edgedown.talktalk.net/fltk/fltk118-utf8-2008-02-24.tar.bz2 >> ============ the guy that did it is one of the fltk devs. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From balmquist at mindfirestudios.com Sat Aug 9 17:31:14 2008 From: balmquist at mindfirestudios.com (Almquist Burke) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:31:14 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> <489C9D53.5050201@gmail.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Aug 9, 2008, at 8:19 AM, David Hopkins wrote: > I"ve enjoyed reading this thread, but have a question: I thought one > of the reasons to continue using RAID 5 vs RAID 1 was speed. Tests on > my systems show that the RAID 5 I/O is at least 3x the speed of RAID > 1. How many disks in the RAID 5? And are they all the same size/speed? I'm actually fond of RAID 10 (Striping across multiple mirrors) on SATA drives. The downside is that you still loose half your disk space, as you would in any RAID 1 array (although SATA drives are so big now I don't worry about that). On the upside, it's easy to do in software, and gives you better redundancy than 4 disks in RAID 5. IMHO having 4 or 6 7200 SATA disks in RAID 10 should be pretty fast and costs less and stores more than 4 SCSI disks in RAID 5. RAID 5 is more efficient with disk space, and that's the only reason to prefer it to RAID 1 or 10, I don't worry about RAID 5 with SATA drives, but SCSI drives of the same size are so much more expensive, so if you are using those fast SCSI drives then a RAID 5 makes sense to preserve your (relatively) expensive disk space. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkid1GIACgkQxWV7OPa/g5ErWwCfc7P3gLTedGxpTYgmB7SreMWK jYkAniS95hC2blFmx2eMq61f8ZpDr3Ts =mDaJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nadavkav at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 18:35:25 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 21:35:25 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: References: <1218111729.4554.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808081248m578f008w4f2207d14300fe69@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808090617u13d2c5dflb89d4bee40b4dcf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808091135v4e92dc7ew11777560750ebf83@mail.gmail.com> it worked fine ! bless you ! :-) i made an hebrew translation and it did not display it properly so i was playing around trying to make it work (port) with fltk 2dev (not finished , yet) i will try the patched version you mentioned and report to you too. thanks :-) On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > 2008/8/9 Nadav Kavalerchik : > > i got lost in fltk site. (trying to figure which version got utf-8 > support) > > thank you so much, for making that clear :-) > > > > i have already started to port your fl_teachertool to fltk 2.0dev > > if i am successful, i will send it back to you :-) > > > Did this version not work? > > > >> ========== > >> Use a patched version of fltk-1.1.x that knows about Unicode > >> (encoded as UTF-8) and load a Unicode font that supports the Cyrillic > >> glyphs. Many fonts have names like "something-LGC.ttf" for example, > >> where the LGC means that the font has support for the Latin, Greek and > >> Cyrillic Unicode pages. (Very few Unicode fonts are "pan-fonts", i.e. > >> including all the Unicode font pages, because they become huge...) > >> > >> My patched version of fltk-1.1.8 is at: > >> > >> http://www.9edgedown.talktalk.net/fltk/fltk118-utf8-2008-02-24.tar.bz2 > >> ============ > > the guy that did it is one of the fltk devs. > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gotthin at gmail.com Sat Aug 9 20:23:48 2008 From: gotthin at gmail.com (Jim Anderson) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:23:48 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] problem starting squid In-Reply-To: <1215901519.5582.7.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <1215901519.5582.7.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <1315fcd60808091323m26ec29es3832d496285988ae@mail.gmail.com> I'm back at the computer lab running k12ltsp. I've added a line to the /etc/hosts file that says "192.168.5.254 squidhost.server.ltsp squidhost" I've added to the /etc/squid.conf file the line "visible_host=squidhost.server.ltsp" When I try to restart squid in services I get the following in the status: squid is stopped 2008/08/09 16:13:10| parseConfigFile: line 1 unrecognized: 'visible_hostname=squidhost.server.ltsp' 2008/08/09 16:13:10| parseConfigFile: line 53 unrecognized: 'Default:' squid: ERROR: No running copy Can you help me out? I won't be back to the lab for another month. Jim Anderson On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 6:25 PM, James P. Kinney III < jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 17:02 -0400, Julius Szelagiewicz wrote: > > > Or better yet, make sure that there is fully qualified name of this > server > > in the /etc/hosts file, say: > > 192.168.mmm.nnn squidhost.mydomain.com squidhost > > > Should always do that! But squid will still require the visible_hostname > setting in the config file. This is for squid use so the logs make sense > as squid can be clustered. > -- > James P. Kinney III > CEO & Director of Engineering > Local Net Solutions,LLC > http://www.localnetsolutions.com > > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) > > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 9 21:05:06 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:05:06 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> <489C9D53.5050201@gmail.com> Message-ID: <489E0682.7020805@cmosnetworks.com> Almquist Burke wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > On Aug 9, 2008, at 8:19 AM, David Hopkins wrote: > >> I"ve enjoyed reading this thread, but have a question: I thought one >> of the reasons to continue using RAID 5 vs RAID 1 was speed. Tests on >> my systems show that the RAID 5 I/O is at least 3x the speed of RAID >> 1. > > How many disks in the RAID 5? And are they all the same > size/speed? I'm actually fond of RAID 10 (Striping across multiple > mirrors) on SATA drives. The downside is that you still loose half > your disk space, as you would in any RAID 1 array (although SATA > drives are so big now I don't worry about that). On the upside, it's > easy to do in software, and gives you better redundancy than 4 disks > in RAID 5. IMHO having 4 or 6 7200 SATA disks in RAID 10 should be > pretty fast and costs less and stores more than 4 SCSI disks in RAID 5. > RAID 5 is more efficient with disk space, and that's the only > reason to prefer it to RAID 1 or 10, I don't worry about RAID 5 with > SATA drives, but SCSI drives of the same size are so much more > expensive, so if you are using those fast SCSI drives then a RAID 5 > makes sense to preserve your (relatively) expensive disk space. I use RAID 5 in 14-disk arrays at work. We find the speed excellent, and the savings in disk space is enormous. Say you have fourteen 500GB disks, be they SATA or SCSI. With RAID 10, your storage would be 14 disks * 500GB / 2, which is 3.5TB. With RAID 5, you'd have (14 disks - 1 for parity) * 500GB = 13 * 500GB = 6.5TB. I'll take the extra 3TB any day! --TP From monteslu at cox.net Sun Aug 10 01:41:30 2008 From: monteslu at cox.net (Luis Montes) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:41:30 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap Message-ID: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> Anyone know the status of the smbldap installer for centos 5 or edubuntu 8.04 ? Luis From balmquist at mindfirestudios.com Sun Aug 10 02:00:55 2008 From: balmquist at mindfirestudios.com (Almquist Burke) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 21:00:55 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <489E0682.7020805@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B4AF5.4010905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080808001305.GB20371@junker.owens.net> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> <489C9D53.5050201@gmail.com> <489E0682.7020805@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <27ADC4EE-9B43-4658-8EDF-EAB4F40AA217@mindfirestudios.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Aug 9, 2008, at 4:05 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > I use RAID 5 in 14-disk arrays at work. We find the speed > excellent, and the savings in disk space is enormous. Say you have > fourteen 500GB disks, be they SATA or SCSI. With RAID 10, your > storage would be 14 disks * 500GB / 2, which is 3.5TB. With RAID > 5, you'd have (14 disks - 1 for parity) * 500GB = 13 * 500GB = > 6.5TB. I'll take the extra 3TB any day! > > --TP > This is true, although in an array that big you might consider RAID 6 instead. RAID 5 cannot handle more that one disk failure at once. Whereas a RAID 10 with 14 disks could lose one disk in each pair and still not fail (up to 7 in this case). But like you said, the downside is lost disk space. It's just that disk space is so cheep these days, especially with LVM, that I don't worry much about giving it up. A pair of 6 disk Raid 10 arrays in LVM would be pretty outstanding I think. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkieS9cACgkQxWV7OPa/g5F7uACfbjnFMTjkuspI5fMbYuHBxy/y WhQAnRZA64ipbolrZPWYVzgM2ZW0rj7O =SGqK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sun Aug 10 02:37:44 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:37:44 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] problem starting squid In-Reply-To: <1315fcd60808091323m26ec29es3832d496285988ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <1215901519.5582.7.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <1315fcd60808091323m26ec29es3832d496285988ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1218335864.8845.4.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Hi Jim, Try: visible_hostname squidhost.server.ltsp Squid config doesn't use name=value style. On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 16:23 -0400, Jim Anderson wrote: > I'm back at the computer lab running k12ltsp. I've added a line to > the /etc/hosts file that says "MailScanner warning: numerical links > are often malicious: 192.168.5.254 squidhost.server.ltsp squidhost" > I've added to the /etc/squid.conf file the line > "visible_host=squidhost.server.ltsp" > > When I try to restart squid in services I get the following in the > status: > > squid is stopped > 2008/08/09 16:13:10| parseConfigFile: line 1 unrecognized: > 'visible_hostname=squidhost.server.ltsp' > 2008/08/09 16:13:10| parseConfigFile: line 53 unrecognized: 'Default:' > squid: ERROR: No running copy > > Can you help me out? I won't be back to the lab for another month. > > Jim Anderson > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 6:25 PM, James P. Kinney III > wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 17:02 -0400, Julius Szelagiewicz wrote: > > > Or better yet, make sure that there is fully qualified name > of this server > > in the /etc/hosts file, say: > > 192.168.mmm.nnn squidhost.mydomain.com squidhost > > > > Should always do that! But squid will still require the > visible_hostname > setting in the config file. This is for squid use so the logs > make sense > as squid can be clustered. > -- > James P. Kinney III > CEO & Director of Engineering > Local Net Solutions,LLC > http://www.localnetsolutions.com > > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) > > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C > 6CA7 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > > > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 10 06:22:08 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:22:08 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 Message-ID: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> Hey folks, Below is a LiveUSB or LiveDVD image containing Fedora 9 LTSP server and the client chroot pre-installed and pre-configured. This is the easiest way to get started with Fedora LTSP5, or to try it without installing onto your hard drive. Simply boot this Live image and follow the simple README, and you can within minutes demo serving of thin clients. You can also install onto a hard drive to create a permanent server. It is all surprisingly self-explanatory once you have booted to the Desktop. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ LTSP on Fedora 9 w/ Updates is currently considered to be production ready, and development of improved features continues rapidly. Check out our homepage for the latest news and updated instructions. Download ======== http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/beta1/i686/ This image is based on Fedora 9 w/ Updates as of August 8th, 2008. It seems to work great for me in limited tests. How to Use LiveUSB? =================== https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator * From Windows you can use LiveUSB creator to make a USB stick bootable containing this Live image. From Linux, within the ISO is the livecd-iso-to-disk script which you can use in Linux to make a bootable USB stick. It is highly recommended that you use a persistent overlay file of at least 900MB because this reduces the amount of memory needed for your demo. For this reason you should have at least 2GB free on your USB stick (~920MB image + 900MB overlay). * LiveDVD works, but is not recommended unless you have at least 2GB RAM for your demo. * Be warned that serving clients from a Live image will eat up your overlay and RAM rapidly, causing the demo to eventually fail. It should be fine for a number of client logins. You should install to your hard drive if you want to do more than just a quick demo. FAQ === 1) Why is this not called K12LTSP? It is the plan for Fedora LTSP5 technology to be the successor of Eric Harrison's highly successful K12LTSP distribution. However we had planned on changing the name to "K12Linux" to be friendlier sounding and easier to pronounce when people explain it at educator conferences. Unfortunately the naming issue remains a bit uncertain because we have not yet received ownership of k12linux domains from the current owner. Warren's fault for getting busy and forgetting to follow up in past months. 2) Is this the only way to install a Fedora LTSP5 server? This Live LTSP Server image is only a convenient way for new users to get started with Fedora LTSP5. Note that it is always possible to enable LTSP5 on any existing Fedora 9 server by following the instructions on the above homepage. 3) Why not LiveCD? LiveCD was not possible because we simply cannot fit Server, Client and apps onto a single disc. If all you have is a CD drive then your hardware is unlikely powerful enough to serve as a LTSP server. In any case you should be able to install from the LiveUSB without dealing with discs at all. Release Plan for Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server ========================================== If we do not run into any serious problems, I plan on doing a Release Candidate ISO spin on Thursday, August 21st. If no problems are found with the RC image, then it will be redubbed as "final" without any changes. I hope to get Fedora branding onto the login screen, and the naming issue straightened out before this release. Delays in the final release may occur due to this branding stuff. In the mean time, this Beta 1 spin seems to work well for me. Please give it a try and let me know. https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list Please send questions or comments to the k12linus-devel-list. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From nils at breun.nl Sun Aug 10 08:06:33 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:06:33 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> Warren Togami wrote: > FAQ > === > 1) Why is this not called K12LTSP? > It is the plan for Fedora LTSP5 technology to be the successor of Eric > Harrison's highly successful K12LTSP distribution. However we had > planned on changing the name to "K12Linux" to be friendlier sounding > and > easier to pronounce when people explain it at educator conferences. > Unfortunately the naming issue remains a bit uncertain because we have > not yet received ownership of k12linux domains from the current owner. > Warren's fault for getting busy and forgetting to follow up in past > months. It's nice to see the continued development of K12LTSP, but does this also mean that there will be no more K12LTSP EL-style releases based on CentOS? Fedora is nice, but its lifecycle is a bit short for my taste. I'd rather not have to upgrade my LTSP server's OS every 13 months just to keep my server patched. Nils Breunese. From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 10 14:32:04 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:32:04 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> Message-ID: <489EFBE4.9060907@redhat.com> Nils Breunese wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: > >> FAQ >> === >> 1) Why is this not called K12LTSP? >> It is the plan for Fedora LTSP5 technology to be the successor of Eric >> Harrison's highly successful K12LTSP distribution. However we had >> planned on changing the name to "K12Linux" to be friendlier sounding and >> easier to pronounce when people explain it at educator conferences. >> Unfortunately the naming issue remains a bit uncertain because we have >> not yet received ownership of k12linux domains from the current owner. >> Warren's fault for getting busy and forgetting to follow up in past >> months. > > It's nice to see the continued development of K12LTSP, but does this > also mean that there will be no more K12LTSP EL-style releases based on > CentOS? Fedora is nice, but its lifecycle is a bit short for my taste. > I'd rather not have to upgrade my LTSP server's OS every 13 months just > to keep my server patched. > > Nils Breunese. K12LTSP EL-5 I suppose can be continued to be maintained for folks who don't mind using the ancient version, but people understand it to be clearly legacy and it will never fix client bugs. The existence of two parallel distributions will be confusing for folks. In the medium-term, this is looking to be in very good shape for EL-6. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/RHEL5Server RHEL5 server support for LTSP5 mostly works today with a few broken parts and a few limitations that cannot be worked around. Due to RHEL5 limitations, I made Fedora 9 as the client chroot, which should be fine until RHEL6. RHEL5 based server has not been a huge priority because of the long list of features and polish that we are trying to achieve with modern LTSP5 that RHEL5 will never be able to do with backports. Fixing the remaining problems actually would not be very difficult, but we seriously need help from other people to make this happen. I'm literally doing 95% of the work myself. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ http://ltsp.org/ http://k12linux.org/ http://k12ltsp.org/ I feel kind of overwhelmed by the large amount of stuff that needs to get done. One important way that people could be very helpful without software development would be to help clean up the confusing mess about LTSP scattered across these various sites. We need a coherent story, with redundancy moved, obsolete information either removed or marked as such. In some places information is plain incorrect. I do not have the time to do development and to fix information on scattered sites that I myself do not control. Help? =) Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From nadavkav at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 14:33:48 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:33:48 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> Message-ID: <4219988b0808100733i74cdee04lee6a4c0fdbde238a@mail.gmail.com> after installing it on a 2GB usb i booted the k12linux it all seems ok. i followed the (clear) instructions all seems ok (some of the PATH core directories are not set in root mode and it was a little hassle to find some of the commands. but i found them :-) now, booting a terminal i get:: "172.31.100.100/ltsp/i386/vmlinux.ltsp ... error: not a valid image unable to load file." i checked all the config files and they seem ok. any ideas ? :-) On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 4:06 AM, Nils Breunese wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: > > FAQ >> === >> 1) Why is this not called K12LTSP? >> It is the plan for Fedora LTSP5 technology to be the successor of Eric >> Harrison's highly successful K12LTSP distribution. However we had >> planned on changing the name to "K12Linux" to be friendlier sounding and >> easier to pronounce when people explain it at educator conferences. >> Unfortunately the naming issue remains a bit uncertain because we have >> not yet received ownership of k12linux domains from the current owner. >> Warren's fault for getting busy and forgetting to follow up in past >> months. >> > > It's nice to see the continued development of K12LTSP, but does this also > mean that there will be no more K12LTSP EL-style releases based on CentOS? > Fedora is nice, but its lifecycle is a bit short for my taste. I'd rather > not have to upgrade my LTSP server's OS every 13 months just to keep my > server patched. > > Nils Breunese. > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 10 14:38:07 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:07 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <4219988b0808100733i74cdee04lee6a4c0fdbde238a@mail.gmail.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> <4219988b0808100733i74cdee04lee6a4c0fdbde238a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489EFD4F.8010703@redhat.com> Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: > after installing it on a 2GB usb i booted the k12linux > it all seems ok. i followed the (clear) instructions > all seems ok (some of the PATH core directories are not set in root mode > and it was a little hassle to find some of the commands. but i found > them :-) > > now, > booting a terminal i get:: "172.31.100.100/ltsp/i386/vmlinux.ltsp > ... error: not a valid > image unable to load file." > Is this client not PXE capable? It doesn't work on coreboot or ancient NBI-only clients yet. I could use help to add this. We already have the tools in Fedora. Otherwise I can't think of any other reason for this error message. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From nadavkav at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 14:40:31 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:40:31 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <489EFD4F.8010703@redhat.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> <4219988b0808100733i74cdee04lee6a4c0fdbde238a@mail.gmail.com> <489EFD4F.8010703@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808100740x2edcbb7bncbc8ad6535492989@mail.gmail.com> it is etherboot. (rtl8139 + etherboot chip i got from disklessworkstation) what can i do to help in this ? On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Warren Togami wrote: > Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: > >> after installing it on a 2GB usb i booted the k12linux >> it all seems ok. i followed the (clear) instructions >> all seems ok (some of the PATH core directories are not set in root mode >> and it was a little hassle to find some of the commands. but i found them >> :-) >> >> now, >> booting a terminal i get:: "172.31.100.100/ltsp/i386/vmlinux.ltsp < >> http://172.31.100.100/ltsp/i386/vmlinux.ltsp> ... error: not a valid >> image unable to load file." >> >> > Is this client not PXE capable? It doesn't work on coreboot or ancient > NBI-only clients yet. I could use help to add this. We already have the > tools in Fedora. > > Otherwise I can't think of any other reason for this error message. > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mel at melwade.com Sun Aug 10 14:46:59 2008 From: mel at melwade.com (Mel Wade) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:46:59 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <489EFBE4.9060907@redhat.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> <489EFBE4.9060907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43080f460808100746v11778ddbm9f26fa6cf2d1a1a6@mail.gmail.com> https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ http://ltsp.org/ http://k12linux.org/ http://k12ltsp.org/ I feel kind of overwhelmed by the large amount of stuff that needs to get done. One important way that people could be very helpful without software development would be to help clean up the confusing mess about LTSP scattered across these various sites. We need a coherent story, with redundancy moved, obsolete information either removed or marked as such. In some places information is plain incorrect. I do not have the time to do development and to fix information on scattered sites that I myself do not control. Why not choose the most accurate site and merge everything into it and then point all the domains to the same site. Even the fedorahosted could be redirected. -- Mel Wade "The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner http://www.melwade.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 10 14:51:47 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:51:47 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <43080f460808100746v11778ddbm9f26fa6cf2d1a1a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> <489EFBE4.9060907@redhat.com> <43080f460808100746v11778ddbm9f26fa6cf2d1a1a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489F0083.40204@redhat.com> Mel Wade wrote: > > https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ > http://ltsp.org/ > http://k12linux.org/ > http://k12ltsp.org/ > I feel kind of overwhelmed by the large amount of stuff that needs to > get done. One important way that people could be very helpful without > software development would be to help clean up the confusing mess about > LTSP scattered across these various sites. We need a coherent story, > with redundancy moved, obsolete information either removed or marked as > such. In some places information is plain incorrect. I do not have the > time to do development and to fix information on scattered sites that I > myself do not control. > > > Why not choose the most accurate site and merge everything into it and > then point all the domains to the same site. Even the fedorahosted > could be redirected. I don't control all the sites. ltsp.org is the upstream site that is supposed to contain only general information about the organization, then to point to the individual distro pages (Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, K12Linux, etc.) k12linux.org currently has little to do with any of these sites. I hope we can use this domain as the easy to find homepage for the Fedora/EL-based LTSP5. Then we can phase out k12ltsp.org, and the fedorahosted.org site will be all redirects to k12linux.org. Aside from the redirects, what I need more help doing is to organize the information and point out where content does not match our overall plan. I can't follow all of this myself and still make any progress on development. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca Sun Aug 10 20:05:10 2008 From: onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca (Onatawahtaw) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Software RAID-1 with 3 Disks? In-Reply-To: <27ADC4EE-9B43-4658-8EDF-EAB4F40AA217@mindfirestudios.com> Message-ID: <207176.10926.qm@web30503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings, I also am researching the issue of RAID. I am wondering if it is possible to setup RAID-1 across 3 Disks. From what I've read I've heard some people say that it is not possible. That Raid 1 requires pairs of disks, but that a third could be used as a hot spare. However, other people are claiming to be using RAID-1 with 3 Disks. Is this possible? Also, I'm trying to understand exactly what a hot spare is. From what I am understanding so far, a hot spare starts out empty. If one of the two disks in a RAID-1 configuration becomes corrupted, the good disk then starts copying itself to the hot spare. It then uses the hot spare as its mirror. Is this a correct understanding of it? Thanks, -Kevin From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 10 20:24:27 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:24:27 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <4219988b0808100740x2edcbb7bncbc8ad6535492989@mail.gmail.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> <4219988b0808100733i74cdee04lee6a4c0fdbde238a@mail.gmail.com> <489EFD4F.8010703@redhat.com> <4219988b0808100740x2edcbb7bncbc8ad6535492989@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <489F4E7B.8080504@redhat.com> Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: > it is etherboot. (rtl8139 + etherboot chip i got from disklessworkstation) > > what can i do to help in this ? > Any idea what version of Etherboot? What is its vendor-class-identifier? I just committed the attached to ltsp-trunk. This should work on anything reporting itself as "Etherboot-5.4" in the DHCP request. If your Etherboot is older though, it becomes a bit difficult to handle automatically. This is because older Etherboot reported itself as "Etherboot", where some versions supported only NBI while others were capable of ELF. I tried mknbi-linux just now and the resulting NBI seems to just fail. I cannot prioritize looking further at NBI given how old it is. If somebody else figures out a way to improve this situation for older Etherboot I'm willing to review patches. Anyhow, give this a try. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ELF-etherboot.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 2454 bytes Desc: not available URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Aug 10 20:37:28 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:37:28 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Software RAID-1 with 3 Disks? In-Reply-To: <207176.10926.qm@web30503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <207176.10926.qm@web30503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <489F5188.4020005@cmosnetworks.com> Onatawahtaw wrote: > Greetings, > > I also am researching the issue of RAID. I am wondering if it is possible to setup RAID-1 across 3 Disks. From what I've read I've heard some people say that it is not possible. That Raid 1 requires pairs of disks, but that a third could be used as a hot spare. However, other people are claiming to be using RAID-1 with 3 Disks. Is this possible? > Yep, but only with one of the disks as a hot spare. A RAID 1 is by definition a mirror involving two disks. > Also, I'm trying to understand exactly what a hot spare is. From what I am understanding so far, a hot spare starts out empty. If one of the two disks in a RAID-1 configuration becomes corrupted, the good disk then starts copying itself to the hot spare. It then uses the hot spare as its mirror. Is this a correct understanding of it? > > Thanks, > > -Kevin > Yep, that's how hot spares work. --TP From krsnendu108 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 21:00:09 2008 From: krsnendu108 at gmail.com (Krsnendu dasa) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:00:09 +1200 Subject: [K12OSN] Software RAID-1 with 3 Disks? In-Reply-To: <489F5188.4020005@cmosnetworks.com> References: <207176.10926.qm@web30503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <489F5188.4020005@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: 2008/8/11 Terrell Prude' Jr. > Onatawahtaw wrote: > >> Greetings, >> >> I also am researching the issue of RAID. I am wondering if it is possible >> to setup RAID-1 across 3 Disks. From what I've read I've heard some people >> say that it is not possible. That Raid 1 requires pairs of disks, but that a >> third could be used as a hot spare. However, other people are claiming to be >> using RAID-1 with 3 Disks. Is this possible? >> >> > > Yep, but only with one of the disks as a hot spare. A RAID 1 is by > definition a mirror involving two disks. > I have heard someone (Les Mikesell?) mirroring onto 3 drives, with the third a usb removable drive. He then takes the third drive elsewhere as a backup. So it is possible. Writes are done to all three drives. Reads from the fastest drive. This way two drives can fail and the show still goes on. > > > Also, I'm trying to understand exactly what a hot spare is. From what I am >> understanding so far, a hot spare starts out empty. If one of the two disks >> in a RAID-1 configuration becomes corrupted, the good disk then starts >> copying itself to the hot spare. It then uses the hot spare as its mirror. >> Is this a correct understanding of it? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -Kevin >> >> > Yep, that's how hot spares work. > > --TP > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sun Aug 10 22:34:13 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:34:13 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Software RAID-1 with 3 Disks? In-Reply-To: References: <207176.10926.qm@web30503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <489F5188.4020005@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <1218407653.8845.7.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 09:00 +1200, Krsnendu dasa wrote: > > I have heard someone (Les Mikesell?) mirroring onto 3 drives, with the > third a usb removable drive. He then takes the third drive elsewhere > as a backup. So it is possible. Writes are done to all three drives. > Reads from the fastest drive. This way two drives can fail and the > show still goes on. I believe reads are spread across all available disks. This is why multi-disk systems are fast on reads. > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sun Aug 10 22:42:41 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:42:41 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1218408161.8845.16.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Excellent work! Thanks for the notice. K12Linux is a good name. :-) I see from the site the inherent issues with ltsp5 and RHEL5+. How far off base would it be to compile the missing libs to /opt location for ltsp5 use? Fuse would still be an issue due to needed kernel mods. What about using a xen kernel in the interim? It would cost a bit of performance but would be more RH'ish. I am working on some additional tool chain stuff here (thinking large scale deployments and issues with favorite items like teachertool being used in an entirely new distributed environment and supporting local-app control, etc) that I probably need to document better and get the design ideas public earlier rather than later. On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 02:22 -0400, Warren Togami wrote: > Hey folks, > > Below is a LiveUSB or LiveDVD image containing Fedora 9 LTSP server and > the client chroot pre-installed and pre-configured. This is the easiest > way to get started with Fedora LTSP5, or to try it without installing > onto your hard drive. > > Simply boot this Live image and follow the simple README, and you can > within minutes demo serving of thin clients. You can also install onto > a hard drive to create a permanent server. It is all surprisingly > self-explanatory once you have booted to the Desktop. > > https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ > LTSP on Fedora 9 w/ Updates is currently considered to be production > ready, and development of improved features continues rapidly. Check > out our homepage for the latest news and updated instructions. > > Download > ======== > http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/beta1/i686/ > This image is based on Fedora 9 w/ Updates as of August 8th, 2008. It > seems to work great for me in limited tests. > > How to Use LiveUSB? > =================== > https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator > * From Windows you can use LiveUSB creator to make a USB stick bootable > containing this Live image. From Linux, within the ISO is the > livecd-iso-to-disk script which you can use in Linux to make a bootable > USB stick. It is highly recommended that you use a persistent overlay > file of at least 900MB because this reduces the amount of memory needed > for your demo. For this reason you should have at least 2GB free on > your USB stick (~920MB image + 900MB overlay). > * LiveDVD works, but is not recommended unless you have at least 2GB RAM > for your demo. > * Be warned that serving clients from a Live image will eat up your > overlay and RAM rapidly, causing the demo to eventually fail. It should > be fine for a number of client logins. You should install to your hard > drive if you want to do more than just a quick demo. > > FAQ > === > 1) Why is this not called K12LTSP? > It is the plan for Fedora LTSP5 technology to be the successor of Eric > Harrison's highly successful K12LTSP distribution. However we had > planned on changing the name to "K12Linux" to be friendlier sounding and > easier to pronounce when people explain it at educator conferences. > Unfortunately the naming issue remains a bit uncertain because we have > not yet received ownership of k12linux domains from the current owner. > Warren's fault for getting busy and forgetting to follow up in past months. > > 2) Is this the only way to install a Fedora LTSP5 server? > This Live LTSP Server image is only a convenient way for new users to > get started with Fedora LTSP5. Note that it is always possible to > enable LTSP5 on any existing Fedora 9 server by following the > instructions on the above homepage. > > 3) Why not LiveCD? > LiveCD was not possible because we simply cannot fit Server, Client and > apps onto a single disc. If all you have is a CD drive then your > hardware is unlikely powerful enough to serve as a LTSP server. In any > case you should be able to install from the LiveUSB without dealing with > discs at all. > > Release Plan for Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server > ========================================== > If we do not run into any serious problems, I plan on doing a Release > Candidate ISO spin on Thursday, August 21st. If no problems are found > with the RC image, then it will be redubbed as "final" without any changes. > > I hope to get Fedora branding onto the login screen, and the naming > issue straightened out before this release. Delays in the final release > may occur due to this branding stuff. In the mean time, this Beta 1 > spin seems to work well for me. Please give it a try and let me know. > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list > Please send questions or comments to the k12linus-devel-list. > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 23:27:33 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:27:33 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Linux "Software RAID" In-Reply-To: <27ADC4EE-9B43-4658-8EDF-EAB4F40AA217@mindfirestudios.com> References: <489B466F.2050602@snarlnet.com> <489B94BF.30904@cmosnetworks.com> <489C2FE9.3050206@biochemfluidics.com> <994441ae0808080847w87c14e3x76cc49349a6f3f40@mail.gmail.com> <489C7F7D.8090703@biochemfluidics.com> <489C9D53.5050201@gmail.com> <489E0682.7020805@cmosnetworks.com> <27ADC4EE-9B43-4658-8EDF-EAB4F40AA217@mindfirestudios.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Almquist Burke wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2008, at 4:05 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: >> >> I use RAID 5 in 14-disk arrays at work. We find the speed excellent, and >> the savings in disk space is enormous. Say you have fourteen 500GB disks, >> be they SATA or SCSI. With RAID 10, your storage would be 14 disks * 500GB >> / 2, which is 3.5TB. With RAID 5, you'd have (14 disks - 1 for parity) * >> 500GB = 13 * 500GB = 6.5TB. I'll take the extra 3TB any day! >> >> --TP >> > > This is true, although in an array that big you might consider RAID 6 > instead. RAID 5 cannot handle more that one disk failure at once. Whereas a > RAID 10 with 14 disks could lose one disk in each pair and still not fail > (up to 7 in this case). But like you said, the downside is lost disk space. > It's just that disk space is so cheep these days, especially with LVM, that > I don't worry much about giving it up. A pair of 6 disk Raid 10 arrays in > LVM would be pretty outstanding I think. My users don't really use a lot of disk space. I can get by with just about 1TB of disk without any issues. I have found that adding more disks to my RAID 5 increases performance until I reach the throughput of the controller itself? I know there is a lot more that goes into this than just that, but for my small arrays (5 SATA drives, 250GB each in a RAID 5) it seems to be true. I also tend not to use LVM and instead use ext3. I've never actually needed to extend an array where I didn't have the time to add a drive and recover (via rsync) from my backup system. In a worst case scenario, I have actually had to switch /home to the backup array temporarily when my main fileserver flipped out. Then, it was just a matter of letting users run on the backup system while rsync rebuilt the main fileserver and switching /home back the next morning after a 'second' rsync to pick up any last minute files that changed. I also have another near-line hard disk backup (single enclosure 1TB box). Can never be too paranoid about data loss. I take the adage "that there are two types of people in the world: those that have lost data and those that are going to" very much to heart. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 23:29:32 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:29:32 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap In-Reply-To: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> References: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> Message-ID: I got it working on my CentOS 5 install, but will have to go back to the school and see if I can find my notes on what changes I made. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Luis Montes wrote: > Anyone know the status of the smbldap installer for centos 5 or edubuntu > 8.04 ? > > > Luis > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From monteslu at cox.net Mon Aug 11 01:41:04 2008 From: monteslu at cox.net (Luis Montes) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:41:04 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap In-Reply-To: References: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> Message-ID: <489F98B0.6020806@cox.net> Did you use the "smbldap ldapclient" to point an ltsp server at it? Luis David Hopkins wrote: > I got it working on my CentOS 5 install, but will have to go back to > the school and see if I can find my notes on what changes I made. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > > On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Luis Montes wrote: > >> Anyone know the status of the smbldap installer for centos 5 or edubuntu >> 8.04 ? >> >> >> Luis >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 03:18:26 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:18:26 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap In-Reply-To: <489F98B0.6020806@cox.net> References: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> <489F98B0.6020806@cox.net> Message-ID: Actually, I just used the authentication gui (from the menu) to enable ldap on the ltsp servers. I'll be at the school tomorrow working on updating our authentication servers and will try to get any information you want then. On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Luis Montes wrote: > Did you use the "smbldap ldapclient" to point an ltsp server at it? > > Luis > > > David Hopkins wrote: >> >> I got it working on my CentOS 5 install, but will have to go back to >> the school and see if I can find my notes on what changes I made. >> >> Sincerely, >> Dave Hopkins >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Luis Montes wrote: >> >>> >>> Anyone know the status of the smbldap installer for centos 5 or edubuntu >>> 8.04 ? >>> >>> >>> Luis >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From massonpj at delhi.edu Mon Aug 11 03:32:16 2008 From: massonpj at delhi.edu (massonpj at delhi.edu) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Patrick Masson is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting Sun 08/10/2008 and will not return until Mon 08/25/2008. From dtrask at vcsvikings.org Mon Aug 11 18:52:27 2008 From: dtrask at vcsvikings.org (David Trask) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:52:27 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap In-Reply-To: References: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> Message-ID: If you post your notes for Centos....I can try to incorporate them into the wiki David N. Trask Technology Teacher/Director Vassalboro Community School dtrask at vcsvikings.org (207)923-3100 From ascensiontech at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 20:03:33 2008 From: ascensiontech at gmail.com (Peter Hartmann) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:03:33 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] icewm on k12ltsp EL5 Message-ID: <9bd317560808111303q666fdf6ave94595c21cd47ad6@mail.gmail.com> Has anybody encountered problems with icewm on K12ltsp EL5 where the kde menu items don't render at all? Also Scribus won't show using this: menuprog "Office" gnome-applications icewm-menu-gnome2 --list "/usr/share/desktop-directories/Office.directory" Also Gimp doesn't show up with: menuprog "Graphics" gnome-graphics icewm-menu-gnome2 --list "/usr/share/desktop-directories/Graphics.directory" Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'm not looking forward to maintaining specialized menus every time I install a program. Thanks, Peter From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 03:19:04 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:19:04 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap In-Reply-To: References: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> Message-ID: Well ... this evening did not go well ... as I was checking my notes for centos, the ldap server crashed on me (actually, it is just acting very flaky with ldap or smb or ncsd randomly dying). I can only guess that is is somehow related to the upgrade I ran a couple of days ago to go from 5.0 to 5.2. Anyhow, I had used the CentOS 4.4 template (by Ben King) and manually located and loaded the rpms that it had used. I guess I didn't get it quite right. Since I only have the evenings to work on it, it'll take a couple of more days to try again. Sorry, Dave Hopkins On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 2:52 PM, David Trask wrote: > If you post your notes for Centos....I can try to incorporate them into > the wiki > > > David N. Trask > Technology Teacher/Director > Vassalboro Community School > dtrask at vcsvikings.org > (207)923-3100 > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From monteslu at cox.net Tue Aug 12 05:51:34 2008 From: monteslu at cox.net (Luis Montes) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:51:34 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap In-Reply-To: References: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> Message-ID: <48A124E6.2070304@cox.net> This stuff isn't easy. I spent most of Sunday connecting an 8.04 edubuntu server to my old smbldap server and things still aren't quite right. I'm authenticating but, sudo is acting funny and segfaulting half the time. I don't think the root account / group/ directory whatever is mapped correctly. Really makes you appreciate the work that David Trask and Matt Oquist put in over the years. Luis David Hopkins wrote: > Well ... this evening did not go well ... as I was checking my notes > for centos, the ldap server crashed on me (actually, it is just acting > very flaky with ldap or smb or ncsd randomly dying). I can only guess > that is is somehow related to the upgrade I ran a couple of days ago > to go from 5.0 to 5.2. Anyhow, I had used the CentOS 4.4 template (by > Ben King) and manually located and loaded the rpms that it had used. I > guess I didn't get it quite right. Since I only have the evenings to > work on it, it'll take a couple of more days to try again. > > Sorry, > Dave Hopkins > > On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 2:52 PM, David Trask wrote: > >> If you post your notes for Centos....I can try to incorporate them into >> the wiki >> >> >> David N. Trask >> Technology Teacher/Director >> Vassalboro Community School >> dtrask at vcsvikings.org >> (207)923-3100 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Tue Aug 12 12:10:21 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:10:21 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] smbldap In-Reply-To: <48A124E6.2070304@cox.net> References: <489E474A.3020504@cox.net> <48A124E6.2070304@cox.net> Message-ID: <1218543021.3448.7.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 22:51 -0700, Luis Montes wrote: > This stuff isn't easy. It really is bordering on rocket science. That is something that many schools don't understand: there is no "magic application". They all require a bit of futzing (i.e. - someone has to figure it out). I've seen schools and business thinking $11/hr for support is what will do the job. That gets a tech who knows how to plug in a mouse cable and hit the caps-lock key so the passwords work again :-) ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7193470719293309352 ). Administering a complex Linux server(s) requires years of experience and a some extreme dedication (and coffee, lots of coffee!). So here's to those that have figured out some of the really hard stuff and shared it with everyone or made it easier! **YAY!** > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 13:52:06 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:52:06 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Firefox 3 downgrade Message-ID: I have upgraded most of my systems to CentOS 5.2 which includes upgradiing FF to 3.01. But ... FF3 is incredibly slow, much slower than my sole remaining FF2 system which is running an older version of Fedora. Browsing the mozilla forum, it seems that this is being observed by others. One option is to figure out why it is so slow. Another is to downgrade. I'd select downgrade but I get lots of unresolved dependencies (using CentOS). Has anyone else on the list had issues with FF3? Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From nils at breun.nl Wed Aug 13 14:04:23 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:04:23 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Firefox 3 downgrade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E7D68EB-1116-4B88-B536-AD64D97EFDF1@breun.nl> David Hopkins wrote: > I have upgraded most of my systems to CentOS 5.2 which includes > upgradiing FF to 3.01. But ... FF3 is incredibly slow, much slower > than my sole remaining FF2 system which is running an older version of > Fedora. Browsing the mozilla forum, it seems that this is being > observed by others. One option is to figure out why it is so slow. > Another is to downgrade. I'd select downgrade but I get lots of > unresolved dependencies (using CentOS). Has anyone else on the list > had issues with FF3? CentOS 5.2's Firefox 3 works fine on our (K12LTSP 5EL 64-bit) server AFAIK. Nils Breunese. From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 14:21:42 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:21:42 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Firefox 3 downgrade In-Reply-To: <5E7D68EB-1116-4B88-B536-AD64D97EFDF1@breun.nl> References: <5E7D68EB-1116-4B88-B536-AD64D97EFDF1@breun.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Nils Breunese wrote: > David Hopkins wrote: > >> I have upgraded most of my systems to CentOS 5.2 which includes >> upgradiing FF to 3.01. But ... FF3 is incredibly slow, much slower >> than my sole remaining FF2 system which is running an older version of >> Fedora. Browsing the mozilla forum, it seems that this is being >> observed by others. One option is to figure out why it is so slow. >> Another is to downgrade. I'd select downgrade but I get lots of >> unresolved dependencies (using CentOS). Has anyone else on the list >> had issues with FF3? > > CentOS 5.2's Firefox 3 works fine on our (K12LTSP 5EL 64-bit) server AFAIK. > That is part of the problem ... it works fine for some and is dismal for others. It is taking 30-40 secs just to load pages like ccn.com, msnbc.com. If I click on another tab, wait a second, and click back, then it loads the page much more quickly. I just re-installed it on one of my 32bit systems and it installed 30+ language packs as well. I am posting this email from a fresh install of CentOS 5.2 x86_64 without a single plugin and it is still slow. I have tried deleting the .mozilla directory and that didn't change the behavior at all. The other behavior I've noticed is that if I uninstall the package, the overall system performance improves (like file copies, loading other apps) but once I install the rpm, it slows down again. Very very strange. I'd like to go back to FF2 but can't seem to find a repository that has that version. I can download the rpm and then I get unresolved dependencies (like system-bookmarks). I have a new x86_64 server that I need to install, so I'll try that with the latest k12ltsp EL version and see what happens. Thanks Dave Hopkins From microman at cmosnetworks.com Wed Aug 13 15:20:54 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:20:54 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Firefox 3 downgrade In-Reply-To: References: <5E7D68EB-1116-4B88-B536-AD64D97EFDF1@breun.nl> Message-ID: <48A2FBD6.4050601@cmosnetworks.com> David Hopkins wrote: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Nils Breunese wrote: > >> David Hopkins wrote: >> >> >>> I have upgraded most of my systems to CentOS 5.2 which includes >>> upgradiing FF to 3.01. But ... FF3 is incredibly slow, much slower >>> than my sole remaining FF2 system which is running an older version of >>> Fedora. Browsing the mozilla forum, it seems that this is being >>> observed by others. One option is to figure out why it is so slow. >>> Another is to downgrade. I'd select downgrade but I get lots of >>> unresolved dependencies (using CentOS). Has anyone else on the list >>> had issues with FF3? >>> >> CentOS 5.2's Firefox 3 works fine on our (K12LTSP 5EL 64-bit) server AFAIK. >> >> > > That is part of the problem ... it works fine for some and is dismal > for others. It is taking 30-40 secs just to load pages like ccn.com, > msnbc.com. If I click on another tab, wait a second, and click back, > then it loads the page much more quickly. I just re-installed it on > one of my 32bit systems and it installed 30+ language packs as well. > I am posting this email from a fresh install of CentOS 5.2 x86_64 > without a single plugin and it is still slow. I have tried deleting > the .mozilla directory and that didn't change the behavior at all. The > other behavior I've noticed is that if I uninstall the package, the > overall system performance improves (like file copies, loading other > apps) but once I install the rpm, it slows down again. Very very > strange. I'd like to go back to FF2 but can't seem to find a > repository that has that version. I can download the rpm and then I > get unresolved dependencies (like system-bookmarks). > > I have a new x86_64 server that I need to install, so I'll try that > with the latest k12ltsp EL version and see what happens. > > Thanks > Dave Hopkins > RPM repositories aren't always the answer. You could do it the same way I do it on some of my systems (CentOS, Slackware, etc.). Just download the Firefox 2 tarball (not the "installer" package, I mean the other one, it's about 9.3MB), un-tar it into, say, the "/usr/local/firefox2" directory, and symlink /usr/bin/firefox to /usr/local/firefox2/firefox. Boom, you should be good to go. Here's how I do it, step by step: 1.) Download Firefox 2.x to some directory (we'll say /home/temporary for this example). 2.) Become root. 3.) cd /usr/local 4.) tar -xvzf /home/temporary/firefox-2.0.0.x.tar.gz 5.) ls -l (you should see a "firefox" directory now) 6.) mv firefox firefox2.0.0.x (this is just for you to remember which version of FF it is) 7.) ln -s /usr/local/firefox2.0.0.x /usr/local/firefox (just a symlink to make it slightly easier to upgrade later, not required) 8.) cd /usr/bin 9.) mv firefox firefox.bak 10.) ln -s /usr/local/firefox/firefox And then, give 'er a spin. You should be able to click on any of the "Firefox Web Browser" icons and have v2.0.0.x come up. --TP From vthai61 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 18:57:47 2008 From: vthai61 at gmail.com (Vi Thai) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:57:47 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] 5.0 EL repos dead/outdated? In-Reply-To: <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <54915.216.24.126.66.1208264509.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> Hello. I tried this suggestion but it still cannot update. The error I am getting is: Error: failure: 5.2/libgcj-4.1.2-42.el5.i386.rpm from k12ltsp: [Errno 256] No more mirrors to try. Someone had suggested a firewall issue and that may be my problem. Does anyone know which port yum uses to update? Thanks, Vi On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Eric Harrison wrote: > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Barry Cisna wrote: >> Hello List, >> >> Still wrangling with my yum problems on my new install of 5 EL K12LTSP. I >> am thinking now it is possibly a firewall problem. I have done many >> installs of K12LTSP from here at school with no problems behind our >> firewall. Yesterday I did try and add in the Network Proxy setting of our >> school's firewall( which I have never had to do in the past) in >> preferences. This did not help any. WHen I try and yum install ( from a >> terminal) the rpm tries to download but I always get " Header not >> complete" I've heard of these in serveral posts,but do not really know >> how to troubleshoot it? I can of course download rpms manually but I am >> trying to install vlc, and there are dependencies as long as your arm to >> get this to install!Should I be able to telnet on port whatever to say >> mesd/k12ltsp download site to see if i get a response? Anyone have any >> ideas? >> >> Tahnks, >> >> Barry Cisna >> > > You may want to try changing the repos to point to ftp rather than http. > > Edit /etc/yum.repos.d/k12ltsp.repo > > and change: > > mirrorlist=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch > > to: > > baseurl=ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-$basearch > > > -Eric > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From k12osn at deltacfax.com Wed Aug 13 19:12:25 2008 From: k12osn at deltacfax.com (Tim Born) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:12:25 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] 5.0 EL repos dead/outdated? In-Reply-To: <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <54915.216.24.126.66.1208264509.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A33219.3070309@deltacfax.com> Vi - RPM repositories can be ftp or http (for the most part). If you have a look at /etc/yum.repos.d/*.repo you will see files that control the various repositories available to you. If the file has 'enabled=1', it is considered. The actual location of the repository is found in the 'baseurl= ...' line. That is a direct pointer to a repository. Larger repos often have mirrors, which are controlled by a mirror list. This shows up in the *.repo on the 'mirrorlist= ...' line. good luck -tim Vi Thai wrote: >Hello. I tried this suggestion but it still cannot update. The error >I am getting is: >Error: failure: 5.2/libgcj-4.1.2-42.el5.i386.rpm from k12ltsp: [Errno >256] No more mirrors to try. >Someone had suggested a firewall issue and that may be my problem. >Does anyone know which port yum uses to update? Thanks, > >Vi > >On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Eric Harrison wrote: > > >>On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Barry Cisna wrote: >> >> >>>Hello List, >>> >>> Still wrangling with my yum problems on my new install of 5 EL K12LTSP. I >>> am thinking now it is possibly a firewall problem. I have done many >>> installs of K12LTSP from here at school with no problems behind our >>> firewall. Yesterday I did try and add in the Network Proxy setting of our >>> school's firewall( which I have never had to do in the past) in >>> preferences. This did not help any. WHen I try and yum install ( from a >>> terminal) the rpm tries to download but I always get " Header not >>> complete" I've heard of these in serveral posts,but do not really know >>> how to troubleshoot it? I can of course download rpms manually but I am >>> trying to install vlc, and there are dependencies as long as your arm to >>> get this to install!Should I be able to telnet on port whatever to say >>> mesd/k12ltsp download site to see if i get a response? Anyone have any >>> ideas? >>> >>> Tahnks, >>> >>> Barry Cisna >>> >>> >>> >>You may want to try changing the repos to point to ftp rather than http. >> >>Edit /etc/yum.repos.d/k12ltsp.repo >> >>and change: >> >> mirrorlist=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch >> >>to: >> >> baseurl=ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-$basearch >> >> >>-Eric >> >>_______________________________________________ >>K12OSN mailing list >>K12OSN at redhat.com >>https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>For more info see >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >K12OSN mailing list >K12OSN at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >For more info see > > From vthai61 at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 20:14:02 2008 From: vthai61 at gmail.com (Vi Thai) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:14:02 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] 5.0 EL repos dead/outdated? In-Reply-To: <48A33219.3070309@deltacfax.com> References: <54915.216.24.126.66.1208264509.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> <48A33219.3070309@deltacfax.com> Message-ID: <26c4defe0808131314nc171910q6263857f9d95a60e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Tim. Each of my .repo files have "enabled=1". Just to see if it would update from another site I brought my server home. It's currently downloading the updates. I did nothing different with the update process, just opened up the terminal and typed in "yum update" and started downloading the headers and is installing without a hitch. The only difference is the site. I was at school with it gave me an error that there were no mirrors to try and at home it's downloading the updates just fine. Our school connects to a school and library network that has a firewall. If anyone knows which firewall port should be turned off so that I can call and have them temporarily allow the port to be opened, I won't have to drag the other three k12ltsp servers home! :) Thanks. Vi On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Tim Born wrote: > Vi - > > RPM repositories can be ftp or http (for the most part). If you have a look > at /etc/yum.repos.d/*.repo you will see files that control the various > repositories available to you. If the file has 'enabled=1', it is > considered. The actual location of the repository is found in the 'baseurl= > ...' line. That is a direct pointer to a repository. Larger repos often > have mirrors, which are controlled by a mirror list. This shows up in the > *.repo on the 'mirrorlist= ...' line. > > good luck > -tim > > > Vi Thai wrote: > >> Hello. I tried this suggestion but it still cannot update. The error >> I am getting is: >> Error: failure: 5.2/libgcj-4.1.2-42.el5.i386.rpm from k12ltsp: [Errno >> 256] No more mirrors to try. >> Someone had suggested a firewall issue and that may be my problem. >> Does anyone know which port yum uses to update? Thanks, >> >> Vi >> >> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Eric Harrison >> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Barry Cisna >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hello List, >>>> >>>> Still wrangling with my yum problems on my new install of 5 EL K12LTSP. >>>> I >>>> am thinking now it is possibly a firewall problem. I have done many >>>> installs of K12LTSP from here at school with no problems behind our >>>> firewall. Yesterday I did try and add in the Network Proxy setting of >>>> our >>>> school's firewall( which I have never had to do in the past) in >>>> preferences. This did not help any. WHen I try and yum install ( from a >>>> terminal) the rpm tries to download but I always get " Header not >>>> complete" I've heard of these in serveral posts,but do not really know >>>> how to troubleshoot it? I can of course download rpms manually but I am >>>> trying to install vlc, and there are dependencies as long as your arm to >>>> get this to install!Should I be able to telnet on port whatever to say >>>> mesd/k12ltsp download site to see if i get a response? Anyone have any >>>> ideas? >>>> >>>> Tahnks, >>>> >>>> Barry Cisna >>>> >>>> >>> >>> You may want to try changing the repos to point to ftp rather than http. >>> >>> Edit /etc/yum.repos.d/k12ltsp.repo >>> >>> and change: >>> >>> >>> mirrorlist=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch >>> >>> to: >>> >>> baseurl=ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-$basearch >>> >>> >>> -Eric >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Wed Aug 13 20:26:31 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:26:31 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] 5.0 EL repos dead/outdated? In-Reply-To: <26c4defe0808131314nc171910q6263857f9d95a60e@mail.gmail.com> References: <54915.216.24.126.66.1208264509.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> <48A33219.3070309@deltacfax.com> <26c4defe0808131314nc171910q6263857f9d95a60e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1218659192.3448.140.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:14 -0400, Vi Thai wrote: > Thanks, Tim. Each of my .repo files have "enabled=1". Just to see if > it would update from another site I brought my server home. It's > currently downloading the updates. I did nothing different with the > update process, just opened up the terminal and typed in "yum update" > and started downloading the headers and is installing without a hitch. > The only difference is the site. I was at school with it gave me an > error that there were no mirrors to try and at home it's downloading > the updates just fine. Our school connects to a school and library > network that has a firewall. If anyone knows which firewall port > should be turned off so that I can call and have them temporarily > allow the port to be opened, I won't have to drag the other three > k12ltsp servers home! :) It's not a port issue as yum works over web port 80. The firewall probably also has content filtering in place. Many commercial products I've seen are blocking repository sites and calling them "forum" sites. Many repo sites also host forums and thus get blocked. Grr. You can use a removable drive and mirror a site at home, bring the drive to the school and have the mount point as a local repo mirror. Clunky but it works. It will probably work better than getting the mirror list "approved" as many places don't actually look at the content filters blocked lists. > > Thanks. > > Vi > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Tim Born wrote: > > Vi - > > > > RPM repositories can be ftp or http (for the most part). If you have a look > > at /etc/yum.repos.d/*.repo you will see files that control the various > > repositories available to you. If the file has 'enabled=1', it is > > considered. The actual location of the repository is found in the 'baseurl= > > ...' line. That is a direct pointer to a repository. Larger repos often > > have mirrors, which are controlled by a mirror list. This shows up in the > > *.repo on the 'mirrorlist= ...' line. > > > > good luck > > -tim > > > > > > Vi Thai wrote: > > > >> Hello. I tried this suggestion but it still cannot update. The error > >> I am getting is: > >> Error: failure: 5.2/libgcj-4.1.2-42.el5.i386.rpm from k12ltsp: [Errno > >> 256] No more mirrors to try. > >> Someone had suggested a firewall issue and that may be my problem. > >> Does anyone know which port yum uses to update? Thanks, > >> > >> Vi > >> > >> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Eric Harrison > >> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Barry Cisna > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Hello List, > >>>> > >>>> Still wrangling with my yum problems on my new install of 5 EL K12LTSP. > >>>> I > >>>> am thinking now it is possibly a firewall problem. I have done many > >>>> installs of K12LTSP from here at school with no problems behind our > >>>> firewall. Yesterday I did try and add in the Network Proxy setting of > >>>> our > >>>> school's firewall( which I have never had to do in the past) in > >>>> preferences. This did not help any. WHen I try and yum install ( from a > >>>> terminal) the rpm tries to download but I always get " Header not > >>>> complete" I've heard of these in serveral posts,but do not really know > >>>> how to troubleshoot it? I can of course download rpms manually but I am > >>>> trying to install vlc, and there are dependencies as long as your arm to > >>>> get this to install!Should I be able to telnet on port whatever to say > >>>> mesd/k12ltsp download site to see if i get a response? Anyone have any > >>>> ideas? > >>>> > >>>> Tahnks, > >>>> > >>>> Barry Cisna > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> You may want to try changing the repos to point to ftp rather than http. > >>> > >>> Edit /etc/yum.repos.d/k12ltsp.repo > >>> > >>> and change: > >>> > >>> > >>> mirrorlist=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch > >>> > >>> to: > >>> > >>> baseurl=ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-$basearch > >>> > >>> > >>> -Eric > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> K12OSN mailing list > >>> K12OSN at redhat.com > >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >>> For more info see > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> K12OSN mailing list > >> K12OSN at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >> For more info see > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From robark at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 07:16:31 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:16:31 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 screenshots Message-ID: Finally got them up http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/screenshot.html -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Thu Aug 14 11:17:12 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:17:12 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] 5.0 EL repos dead/outdated? In-Reply-To: <26c4defe0808131314nc171910q6263857f9d95a60e@mail.gmail.com> References: <54915.216.24.126.66.1208264509.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> <48A33219.3070309@deltacfax.com> <26c4defe0808131314nc171910q6263857f9d95a60e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A41438.4090300@biochemfluidics.com> Does your school use a proxy server to get to the internet? You may have to tell yum to use the proxy server: http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_system_administration/managing_software_with_yum_guide/sn-yum-proxy-server.html -Rob Vi Thai wrote: > Thanks, Tim. Each of my .repo files have "enabled=1". Just to see if > it would update from another site I brought my server home. It's > currently downloading the updates. I did nothing different with the > update process, just opened up the terminal and typed in "yum update" > and started downloading the headers and is installing without a hitch. > The only difference is the site. I was at school with it gave me an > error that there were no mirrors to try and at home it's downloading > the updates just fine. Our school connects to a school and library > network that has a firewall. If anyone knows which firewall port > should be turned off so that I can call and have them temporarily > allow the port to be opened, I won't have to drag the other three > k12ltsp servers home! :) > > Thanks. > > Vi > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Tim Born wrote: >> Vi - >> >> RPM repositories can be ftp or http (for the most part). If you have a look >> at /etc/yum.repos.d/*.repo you will see files that control the various >> repositories available to you. If the file has 'enabled=1', it is >> considered. The actual location of the repository is found in the 'baseurl= >> ...' line. That is a direct pointer to a repository. Larger repos often >> have mirrors, which are controlled by a mirror list. This shows up in the >> *.repo on the 'mirrorlist= ...' line. >> >> good luck >> -tim >> >> >> Vi Thai wrote: >> >>> Hello. I tried this suggestion but it still cannot update. The error >>> I am getting is: >>> Error: failure: 5.2/libgcj-4.1.2-42.el5.i386.rpm from k12ltsp: [Errno >>> 256] No more mirrors to try. >>> Someone had suggested a firewall issue and that may be my problem. >>> Does anyone know which port yum uses to update? Thanks, >>> >>> Vi >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Eric Harrison >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Barry Cisna >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello List, >>>>> >>>>> Still wrangling with my yum problems on my new install of 5 EL K12LTSP. >>>>> I >>>>> am thinking now it is possibly a firewall problem. I have done many >>>>> installs of K12LTSP from here at school with no problems behind our >>>>> firewall. Yesterday I did try and add in the Network Proxy setting of >>>>> our >>>>> school's firewall( which I have never had to do in the past) in >>>>> preferences. This did not help any. WHen I try and yum install ( from a >>>>> terminal) the rpm tries to download but I always get " Header not >>>>> complete" I've heard of these in serveral posts,but do not really know >>>>> how to troubleshoot it? I can of course download rpms manually but I am >>>>> trying to install vlc, and there are dependencies as long as your arm to >>>>> get this to install!Should I be able to telnet on port whatever to say >>>>> mesd/k12ltsp download site to see if i get a response? Anyone have any >>>>> ideas? >>>>> >>>>> Tahnks, >>>>> >>>>> Barry Cisna >>>>> >>>>> >>>> You may want to try changing the repos to point to ftp rather than http. >>>> >>>> Edit /etc/yum.repos.d/k12ltsp.repo >>>> >>>> and change: >>>> >>>> >>>> mirrorlist=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch >>>> >>>> to: >>>> >>>> baseurl=ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-$basearch >>>> >>>> >>>> -Eric >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Thu Aug 14 12:26:04 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:26:04 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] 5.0 EL repos dead/outdated? In-Reply-To: <48A41438.4090300@biochemfluidics.com> References: <54915.216.24.126.66.1208264509.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> <48A33219.3070309@deltacfax.com> <26c4defe0808131314nc171910q6263857f9d95a60e@mail.gmail.com> <48A41438.4090300@biochemfluidics.com> Message-ID: I'll just second this as a very possible cause. The quick fix is just to add proxy=httpd:your.proxy.server:proxy_port to the yum.conf file which will let yum and yumex work. The http_proxy option is required for wget to work correctly which is what the add additional software scripts use. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Rob Owens wrote: > Does your school use a proxy server to get to the internet? You may have to > tell yum to use the proxy server: > > http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_system_administration/managing_software_with_yum_guide/sn-yum-proxy-server.html > > -Rob > > > Vi Thai wrote: >> >> Thanks, Tim. Each of my .repo files have "enabled=1". Just to see if >> it would update from another site I brought my server home. It's >> currently downloading the updates. I did nothing different with the >> update process, just opened up the terminal and typed in "yum update" >> and started downloading the headers and is installing without a hitch. >> The only difference is the site. I was at school with it gave me an >> error that there were no mirrors to try and at home it's downloading >> the updates just fine. Our school connects to a school and library >> network that has a firewall. If anyone knows which firewall port >> should be turned off so that I can call and have them temporarily >> allow the port to be opened, I won't have to drag the other three >> k12ltsp servers home! :) >> >> Thanks. >> >> Vi >> >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Tim Born wrote: >>> >>> Vi - >>> >>> RPM repositories can be ftp or http (for the most part). If you have a >>> look >>> at /etc/yum.repos.d/*.repo you will see files that control the various >>> repositories available to you. If the file has 'enabled=1', it is >>> considered. The actual location of the repository is found in the >>> 'baseurl= >>> ...' line. That is a direct pointer to a repository. Larger repos often >>> have mirrors, which are controlled by a mirror list. This shows up in >>> the >>> *.repo on the 'mirrorlist= ...' line. >>> >>> good luck >>> -tim >>> >>> >>> Vi Thai wrote: >>> >>>> Hello. I tried this suggestion but it still cannot update. The error >>>> I am getting is: >>>> Error: failure: 5.2/libgcj-4.1.2-42.el5.i386.rpm from k12ltsp: [Errno >>>> 256] No more mirrors to try. >>>> Someone had suggested a firewall issue and that may be my problem. >>>> Does anyone know which port yum uses to update? Thanks, >>>> >>>> Vi >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Eric Harrison >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Barry Cisna >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello List, >>>>>> >>>>>> Still wrangling with my yum problems on my new install of 5 EL >>>>>> K12LTSP. >>>>>> I >>>>>> am thinking now it is possibly a firewall problem. I have done many >>>>>> installs of K12LTSP from here at school with no problems behind our >>>>>> firewall. Yesterday I did try and add in the Network Proxy setting of >>>>>> our >>>>>> school's firewall( which I have never had to do in the past) in >>>>>> preferences. This did not help any. WHen I try and yum install ( from >>>>>> a >>>>>> terminal) the rpm tries to download but I always get " Header not >>>>>> complete" I've heard of these in serveral posts,but do not really know >>>>>> how to troubleshoot it? I can of course download rpms manually but I >>>>>> am >>>>>> trying to install vlc, and there are dependencies as long as your arm >>>>>> to >>>>>> get this to install!Should I be able to telnet on port whatever to say >>>>>> mesd/k12ltsp download site to see if i get a response? Anyone have any >>>>>> ideas? >>>>>> >>>>>> Tahnks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Barry Cisna >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> You may want to try changing the repos to point to ftp rather than >>>>> http. >>>>> >>>>> Edit /etc/yum.repos.d/k12ltsp.repo >>>>> >>>>> and change: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> mirrorlist=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch >>>>> >>>>> to: >>>>> >>>>> baseurl=ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-$basearch >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -Eric >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>>> For more info see >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > ******************************************************** > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, > copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in > error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as > information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or > incomplete, or contain viruses. > The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions > in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail > transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy > version. > > ******************************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From jones_yeates at hotmail.com Thu Aug 14 20:46:44 2008 From: jones_yeates at hotmail.com (jones yeates) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:46:44 +0000 Subject: [K12OSN] ipxripd for CentOS5 Message-ID: Hi, I just upgraded my server to CentOS 5 and I tried to do a yum install ipxripd, which worked in FC and it doesn't work. It said it had nothing to do and the program isn't installed on my server. Can someone help me out? I need it to work for the clients to be able to authenticate their users on the Novell server. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ From nils at breun.nl Thu Aug 14 21:11:19 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:11:19 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] ipxripd for CentOS5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B6A854-A76A-4AF2-8547-2E2849FC9486@breun.nl> jones yeates wrote: > I just upgraded my server to CentOS 5 and I tried to do a yum > install ipxripd, which worked in FC and it doesn't work. It said it > had nothing to do and the program isn't installed on my server. > > Can someone help me out? I need it to work for the clients to be > able to authenticate their users on the Novell server. There is no ipxripd package in the official CentOS repositories, so that is why yum doesn't do anything. I don't know if any third party repository carries it, but otherwise you can try rebuilding Fedora's source package on CentOS yourself. Nils Breunese. From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Thu Aug 14 21:21:28 2008 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:21:28 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] ipxripd for CentOS5 In-Reply-To: <40B6A854-A76A-4AF2-8547-2E2849FC9486@breun.nl> References: <40B6A854-A76A-4AF2-8547-2E2849FC9486@breun.nl> Message-ID: <994441ae0808141421w517fa238r4083a504006f6f00@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Nils Breunese wrote: > jones yeates wrote: > >> I just upgraded my server to CentOS 5 and I tried to do a yum install >> ipxripd, which worked in FC and it doesn't work. It said it had nothing to >> do and the program isn't installed on my server. >> >> Can someone help me out? I need it to work for the clients to be able to >> authenticate their users on the Novell server. > > There is no ipxripd package in the official CentOS repositories, so that is > why yum doesn't do anything. I don't know if any third party repository > carries it, but otherwise you can try rebuilding Fedora's source package on > CentOS yourself. The RHEL kernel (and thus the CentOS) kernel doesn't include the ipx kernel module, so you'd need to install the kernel from the centosplus repository for the router daemon to do much good. -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 From opensource at whitenitro.com Fri Aug 15 03:04:17 2008 From: opensource at whitenitro.com (Bryant Patten) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:04:17 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Showing TeacherTool at the Open Minds Conference? In-Reply-To: <20080814160036.3AF5B61A4C3@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20080814160036.3AF5B61A4C3@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <922BD2F4-73B9-4DDC-BC60-9230D6AD7180@whitenitro.com> Robert - Any chance I can talk you into coming to the national Open Source and Education Conference - Open Minds - next month to give a presentation on TeacherTool? Here is the URL - http://www.k12openminds.org/conference/call-for-speakers I think it would be a big hit at the conference. All the best, Bryant Patten Co-Chair - Open Minds Conference & Executive Director National Center for Open Source and Education www.ncose.org On Aug 14, 2008, at 12:00 PM, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:16:31 -0700 > From: "Robert Arkiletian" > Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 screenshots > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Finally got them up > > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/screenshot.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 06:47:51 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:47:51 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Showing TeacherTool at the Open Minds Conference? In-Reply-To: <922BD2F4-73B9-4DDC-BC60-9230D6AD7180@whitenitro.com> References: <20080814160036.3AF5B61A4C3@hormel.redhat.com> <922BD2F4-73B9-4DDC-BC60-9230D6AD7180@whitenitro.com> Message-ID: 2008/8/14 Bryant Patten : > Robert - > Any chance I can talk you into coming to the national Open Source and > Education Conference - Open Minds - next month to give a presentation on > TeacherTool? Here is the URL Thanks for the invite Bryant. I will call you tomorrow at the number listed on the Open Minds site. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From sbarar at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 09:40:35 2008 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:10:35 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Showing TeacherTool at the Open Minds Conference? In-Reply-To: <922BD2F4-73B9-4DDC-BC60-9230D6AD7180@whitenitro.com> References: <20080814160036.3AF5B61A4C3@hormel.redhat.com> <922BD2F4-73B9-4DDC-BC60-9230D6AD7180@whitenitro.com> Message-ID: <774593a20808150240n5eae74b4gb87b6b6f76b21534@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/15 Bryant Patten : > Robert - > Any chance I can talk you into coming to the national Open Source and > Education Conference - Open Minds - next month to give a presentation on > TeacherTool? Here is the URL > - http://www.k12openminds.org/conference/call-for-speakers > I think it would be a big hit at the conference. > All the best, > Bryant Patten > Co-Chair - Open Minds Conference & Bryant That was brilliant. I am not in US or in education but your open invite to Robert is an excellent recognition of his hard work. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From vceder at canterburyschool.org Fri Aug 15 16:24:49 2008 From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:24:49 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Showing TeacherTool at the Open Minds Conference? In-Reply-To: <922BD2F4-73B9-4DDC-BC60-9230D6AD7180@whitenitro.com> References: <20080814160036.3AF5B61A4C3@hormel.redhat.com> <922BD2F4-73B9-4DDC-BC60-9230D6AD7180@whitenitro.com> Message-ID: <48A5ADD1.6060208@canterburyschool.org> Let me follow up on Bryant's post with a more general reminder that the K12 Open Minds conference is approaching. See http://www.k12openminds.org for more details - this is one of the few conferences devoted to Free and Open Source Software in K-12 education, so if that's an area of interest please come and consider presenting. There are two updates worth mentioning. First, the deadline for rooms at the conference rate of $97 a night is August 25. After that, the room rate will increase dramatically. So if you are planning to attend, booking a room now (see "Hotels" on the main site) would be a good idea. Second, we have extended the deadline for speaking proposals to Friday, August 22, so please consider submitting a talk. While all proposals are welcome, talks focussed on FOSS at the classroom level, either teaching or technical, would be welcomed. Cheers, Vern Ceder Bryant Patten wrote: > Robert - > > Any chance I can talk you into coming to the national Open Source and > Education Conference - Open Minds - next month to give a presentation on > TeacherTool? Here is the URL > - http://www.k12openminds.org/conference/call-for-speakers > > I think it would be a big hit at the conference. > > All the best, > > Bryant Patten > Co-Chair - Open Minds Conference & > Executive Director > National Center for Open Source and Education > www.ncose.org > > On Aug 14, 2008, at 12:00 PM, k12osn-request at redhat.com > wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:16:31 -0700 >> From: "Robert Arkiletian" > >> Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 screenshots >> To: "Support list for open source software in schools." >> > >> Message-ID: >> > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Finally got them up >> >> http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/screenshot.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 From jones_yeates at hotmail.com Fri Aug 15 16:38:18 2008 From: jones_yeates at hotmail.com (jones yeates) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:38:18 +0000 Subject: [K12OSN] ipxripd for CentOS5 In-Reply-To: <994441ae0808141421w517fa238r4083a504006f6f00@mail.gmail.com> References: <40B6A854-A76A-4AF2-8547-2E2849FC9486@breun.nl> <994441ae0808141421w517fa238r4083a504006f6f00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Nils and Dan. I have downloaded the files and I will try to install them on Monday. > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:21:28 -0700> From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us> To: k12osn at redhat.com> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] ipxripd for CentOS5> > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Nils Breunese wrote:> > jones yeates wrote:> >> >> I just upgraded my server to CentOS 5 and I tried to do a yum install> >> ipxripd, which worked in FC and it doesn't work. It said it had nothing to> >> do and the program isn't installed on my server.> >>> >> Can someone help me out? I need it to work for the clients to be able to> >> authenticate their users on the Novell server.> >> > There is no ipxripd package in the official CentOS repositories, so that is> > why yum doesn't do anything. I don't know if any third party repository> > carries it, but otherwise you can try rebuilding Fedora's source package on> > CentOS yourself.> > The RHEL kernel (and thus the CentOS) kernel doesn't include the ipx> kernel module, so you'd need to install the kernel from the centosplus> repository for the router daemon to do much good.> > --> Dan Young > Multnomah ESD - Technology Services> 503-257-1562> > _______________________________________________> K12OSN mailing list> K12OSN at redhat.com> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn> For more info see _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca Sat Aug 16 05:56:35 2008 From: onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca (Onatawahtaw) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Software RAID-1 with 3 Disks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <192199.93048.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Krsnendu dasa wrote: > > > I have heard someone (Les Mikesell?) mirroring onto 3 > drives, with the third > a usb removable drive. He then takes the third drive > elsewhere as a backup. > So it is possible. Writes are done to all three drives. > Reads from the > fastest drive. This way two drives can fail and the show > still goes on. > > So would it be better to mirror all 3 drives in RAID-1, or set the third up as a hot spare? From lesmikesell at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 06:11:21 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:11:21 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Software RAID-1 with 3 Disks? In-Reply-To: <192199.93048.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <192199.93048.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48A66F89.8030401@gmail.com> Onatawahtaw wrote: > --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Krsnendu dasa wrote: > >> I have heard someone (Les Mikesell?) mirroring onto 3 >> drives, with the third >> a usb removable drive. He then takes the third drive >> elsewhere as a backup. >> So it is possible. Writes are done to all three drives. >> Reads from the >> fastest drive. This way two drives can fail and the show >> still goes on. >> >> > > So would it be better to mirror all 3 drives in RAID-1, or set the third up as a hot spare? The only reason to run all 3 drives mirrored would be if you periodically swap one out to keep as a backup. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Aug 16 13:36:57 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:36:57 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? Message-ID: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. However, the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be invalid. I suspect it is supposed to be k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, which does exist. The k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist file at http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is the incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, incorrect because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you look at this? Or am I misunderstanding something? Peter From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 15:01:35 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:01:35 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 6:36 AM, Peter Scheie wrote: > I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version of > fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is mesa-libGL-devel if people have problems with installing fltk manually just use the fltk and fltk-devel packages that come with the distro (ie install with yum) The version that comes with k12ltsp 5EL is 1.1.7. It should be okay. But you may have to install libpng-devel libjpeg-devel libXpm-devel before compiling fl-tt. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Aug 16 15:35:50 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:35:50 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48A6F3D6.9080702@scheie.homedns.org> Further, while k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/ is not available over http, it is available via ftp (but that does yum no good). It would be nice if the path were the same for both protocols. Peter Peter Scheie wrote: > I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version of > fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is > mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from > http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. However, > the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be invalid. I > suspect it is supposed to be k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, which > does exist. The k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist file at > http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in this > case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is the > incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, incorrect > because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you look at this? > Or am I misunderstanding something? > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Aug 16 15:49:06 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:49:06 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A6F3D6.9080702@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> <48A6F3D6.9080702@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48A6F6F2.3050703@scheie.homedns.org> Upon closer examination, it appears the path http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/ has changed to http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.2/ but yum doesn't seem to know it. Peter Peter Scheie wrote: > Further, while k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/ is not available > over http, it is available via ftp (but that does yum no good). It > would be nice if the path were the same for both protocols. > > Peter > > > Peter Scheie wrote: >> I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version >> of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is >> mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. However, >> the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be invalid. I >> suspect it is supposed to be k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, >> which does exist. The k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist >> file at >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in >> this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is the >> incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, incorrect >> because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you look at >> this? Or am I misunderstanding something? >> >> Peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sat Aug 16 17:22:13 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:13 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A6F6F2.3050703@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> <48A6F3D6.9080702@scheie.homedns.org> <48A6F6F2.3050703@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <1218907333.25284.10.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Check in /etc for a file called k12ltsp-version (I think that's the name) and bump the version number to 5.2 That _should_ be done by a full yum update run anyway. On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 10:49 -0500, Peter Scheie wrote: > Upon closer examination, it appears the path > http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/ has changed to > http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.2/ but yum doesn't seem > to know it. > > Peter > > Peter Scheie wrote: > > Further, while k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/ is not available > > over http, it is available via ftp (but that does yum no good). It > > would be nice if the path were the same for both protocols. > > > > Peter > > > > > > Peter Scheie wrote: > >> I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version > >> of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is > >> mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from > >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. However, > >> the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be invalid. I > >> suspect it is supposed to be k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, > >> which does exist. The k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist > >> file at > >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in > >> this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is the > >> incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, incorrect > >> because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you look at > >> this? Or am I misunderstanding something? > >> > >> Peter > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> K12OSN mailing list > >> K12OSN at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >> For more info see > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Aug 16 19:11:45 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:11:45 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <1218907333.25284.10.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> <48A6F3D6.9080702@scheie.homedns.org> <48A6F6F2.3050703@scheie.homedns.org> <1218907333.25284.10.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <48A72671.8050504@scheie.homedns.org> Do you mean /etc/k12ltsp-release? That's the only k12ltsp* file in /etc. It just shows 'K12LTSP release 5.0.0EL-0.2'; I tried changing the 5.0.0 to 5.2.0 but it made no difference. I did a yum update, had some problems, ran yum update again, and then the update ran to completion. However, it appears the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us site is down: when I try to install fltk-devel I'm now getting this: Loading "fastestmirror" plugin Loading "priorities" plugin Repository rpmforge is listed more than once in the configuration Determining fastest mirrors * macromedia: macromedia.mplug.org * rpmforge: fr2.rpmfind.net * adobe-linux-i386: linuxdownload.adobe.com Could not retrieve mirrorlist http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-i386 error was [Errno 12] Timeout: Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: k12ltsp Ideas? Peter James P. Kinney III wrote: > Check in /etc for a file called k12ltsp-version (I think that's the > name) and bump the version number to 5.2 > > That _should_ be done by a full yum update run anyway. > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 10:49 -0500, Peter Scheie wrote: >> Upon closer examination, it appears the path >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/ has changed to >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.2/ but yum doesn't seem >> to know it. >> >> Peter >> >> Peter Scheie wrote: >>> Further, while k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/ is not available >>> over http, it is available via ftp (but that does yum no good). It >>> would be nice if the path were the same for both protocols. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> Peter Scheie wrote: >>>> I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version >>>> of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is >>>> mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from >>>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. However, >>>> the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be invalid. I >>>> suspect it is supposed to be k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, >>>> which does exist. The k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist >>>> file at >>>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in >>>> this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is the >>>> incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, incorrect >>>> because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you look at >>>> this? Or am I misunderstanding something? >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 16 20:23:22 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:23:22 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A72671.8050504@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> <48A6F3D6.9080702@scheie.homedns.org> <48A6F6F2.3050703@scheie.homedns.org> <1218907333.25284.10.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <48A72671.8050504@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48A7373A.2050507@cmosnetworks.com> Try looking in /etc/yum.repos.d/k12ltsp.repo and see if that file has the correct path info in it. On my system (K12LTSP 4.2EL), it reads as follows. Note that the path is version-specific. [microman at takhisis yum.repos.d]$ more k12ltsp.repo [k12ltsp] name=K12LTSP mirrorlist=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-4.2EL-32bit gpgkey=http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP-GPG-KEY enabled=1 gpgcheck=1 [microman at takhisis yum.repos.d]$ --TP Peter Scheie wrote: > Do you mean /etc/k12ltsp-release? That's the only k12ltsp* file in > /etc. It just shows 'K12LTSP release 5.0.0EL-0.2'; I tried changing > the 5.0.0 to 5.2.0 but it made no difference. I did a yum update, had > some problems, ran yum update again, and then the update ran to > completion. However, it appears the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us site is > down: when I try to install fltk-devel I'm now getting this: > > Loading "fastestmirror" plugin > Loading "priorities" plugin > Repository rpmforge is listed more than once in the configuration > Determining fastest mirrors > * macromedia: macromedia.mplug.org > * rpmforge: fr2.rpmfind.net > * adobe-linux-i386: linuxdownload.adobe.com > Could not retrieve mirrorlist > http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-i386 error was > [Errno 12] Timeout: > Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: k12ltsp > > Ideas? > > Peter > > James P. Kinney III wrote: >> Check in /etc for a file called k12ltsp-version (I think that's the >> name) and bump the version number to 5.2 >> That _should_ be done by a full yum update run anyway. >> >> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 10:49 -0500, Peter Scheie wrote: >>> Upon closer examination, it appears the path >>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/ has >>> changed to >>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.2/ but yum >>> doesn't seem to know it. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> Peter Scheie wrote: >>>> Further, while k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/ is not >>>> available over http, it is available via ftp (but that does yum no >>>> good). It would be nice if the path were the same for both protocols. >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> Peter Scheie wrote: >>>>> I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new >>>>> version of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its >>>>> dependencies is mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from >>>>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. >>>>> However, the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be >>>>> invalid. I suspect it is supposed to be >>>>> k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, which does exist. The >>>>> k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist file at >>>>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in >>>>> this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is >>>>> the incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, >>>>> incorrect because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you >>>>> look at this? Or am I misunderstanding something? >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 16 20:26:29 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:26:29 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48A737F5.4030204@cmosnetworks.com> Peter Scheie wrote: > I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version > of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is > mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from > http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. However, > the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be invalid. I > suspect it is supposed to be k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, > which does exist. The k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist > file at > http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in > this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is the > incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, incorrect > because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you look at > this? Or am I misunderstanding something? > > Peter Hey...I just tried "yum update" with my K12LTSP 4.2EL box. I get the same error message! Yes, "yum update" and "yum upgrade" both used to work on this box. This issue, therefore, seems to not be specific to version 5EL. Could there be a more general issue at the repository level? --TP From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Aug 16 20:56:35 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:56:35 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A737F5.4030204@cmosnetworks.com> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> <48A737F5.4030204@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48A73F03.80007@scheie.homedns.org> I think there was, but it seems to be working now. Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Peter Scheie wrote: >> I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version >> of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is >> mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. However, >> the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be invalid. I >> suspect it is supposed to be k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, >> which does exist. The k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist >> file at >> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in >> this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is the >> incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, incorrect >> because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you look at >> this? Or am I misunderstanding something? >> >> Peter > > Hey...I just tried "yum update" with my K12LTSP 4.2EL box. I get the > same error message! Yes, "yum update" and "yum upgrade" both used to > work on this box. This issue, therefore, seems to not be specific to > version 5EL. > > Could there be a more general issue at the repository level? > > --TP > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Aug 16 21:04:56 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:04:56 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] fl_teachertool-0.60 fails at make step Message-ID: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> I'm trying to install Robert's latest fl_teachertool, 0.60. Following the instructions at http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html, when I get to the step of untarring the fl_tt tar file, (changing into the directory), and running make, I get this error: g++ `fltk-config --use-images --ldflags` -lXpm -Wall -g `fltk-config --cxxflags` -D FL_CONFIG=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/fl_teachertool.conf\" -D FL_MACLIST=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/fl_teachertool.maclist\" -D HOSTINFOFILE=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/HOST_INFO_FILE\" -D VNCREFLECTOR=\"/usr/bin/vncreflector\" -D TIGHTVNCVIEWER=\"/usr/bin/teachertool-vncviewer\" -D VNCSNAPSHOT=\"/usr/bin/vncsnapshot\" -D CONVERT=\"/usr/bin/convert\" -D REALVNCVIEWER=\"/usr/bin/vncviewer\" -D FLTTMESSAGE=\"/usr/local/bin/fl_ttmessage\" -D BINDIR=\"/usr/local/bin\" -D SBINDIR=\"/usr/local/sbin\" fl_teachertool.o -o fl_teachertool /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpng collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [fl_teachertool] Error 1 What does this mean? For the record, I do have libX11-devel, libXext-devel, libXpm-devel, and libXft-devel installed. But it looks like I'm missing something. Peter From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 16 21:11:57 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:11:57 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] broken link in k12ltsp.repo? In-Reply-To: <48A73F03.80007@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A6D7F9.1070900@scheie.homedns.org> <48A737F5.4030204@cmosnetworks.com> <48A73F03.80007@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48A7429D.1010101@cmosnetworks.com> Yep, working for me now, too. --TP Peter Scheie wrote: > I think there was, but it seems to be working now. > > Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: >> Peter Scheie wrote: >>> I'm trying to install libX11-devel (to test out Robert's new version >>> of fl_teachertool) on k12ltsp-5EL. One of its dependencies is >>> mesa-libGL-devel which it tries to get from >>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit/5.1/. >>> However, the k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP path appears to be >>> invalid. I suspect it is supposed to be >>> k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP, which does exist. The >>> k12ltsp.repo simply points to the mirrorlist file at >>> http://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/mirrors/k12ltsp-5.0EL-$basearch; in >>> this case, $basearch is i386, and the path that this points to is >>> the incorrect k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/K12LTSP/5.0.0-EL-32bit, >>> incorrect because of the missing /pub/ part. Dan or Eric, can you >>> look at this? Or am I misunderstanding something? >>> >>> Peter >> >> Hey...I just tried "yum update" with my K12LTSP 4.2EL box. I get the >> same error message! Yes, "yum update" and "yum upgrade" both used to >> work on this box. This issue, therefore, seems to not be specific to >> version 5EL. >> >> Could there be a more general issue at the repository level? >> >> --TP >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Aug 16 21:17:01 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:17:01 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] fl_teachertool-0.60 fails at make step In-Reply-To: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48A743CD.5030408@scheie.homedns.org> Never mind, I was just missing libpng-devel. Peter Scheie wrote: > I'm trying to install Robert's latest fl_teachertool, 0.60. Following > the instructions at > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html, > when I get to the step of untarring the fl_tt tar file, (changing into > the directory), and running make, I get this error: > > g++ `fltk-config --use-images --ldflags` -lXpm -Wall -g `fltk-config > --cxxflags` -D > FL_CONFIG=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/fl_teachertool.conf\" -D > FL_MACLIST=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/fl_teachertool.maclist\" -D > HOSTINFOFILE=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/HOST_INFO_FILE\" -D > VNCREFLECTOR=\"/usr/bin/vncreflector\" -D > TIGHTVNCVIEWER=\"/usr/bin/teachertool-vncviewer\" -D > VNCSNAPSHOT=\"/usr/bin/vncsnapshot\" -D CONVERT=\"/usr/bin/convert\" -D > REALVNCVIEWER=\"/usr/bin/vncviewer\" -D > FLTTMESSAGE=\"/usr/local/bin/fl_ttmessage\" -D BINDIR=\"/usr/local/bin\" > -D SBINDIR=\"/usr/local/sbin\" fl_teachertool.o -o fl_teachertool > /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpng > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > make: *** [fl_teachertool] Error 1 > > What does this mean? For the record, I do have libX11-devel, > libXext-devel, libXpm-devel, and libXft-devel installed. But it looks > like I'm missing something. > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From spowers at inlandlakes.org Sat Aug 16 23:36:33 2008 From: spowers at inlandlakes.org (Shawn Powers) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:36:33 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Wrong night to install? :D Message-ID: <247FA3BC-9633-4041-AA8F-5999DD6876B9@inlandlakes.org> There seem to be lots of issues with the mesd repositories today. I guess I picked the wrong Saturday to reinstall my servers! Anyone on the inside know if these are planned issues, and if so, when the plan is over? :) -Shawn From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sun Aug 17 00:50:46 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:50:46 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] fl_teachertool-0.60 fails at make step In-Reply-To: <48A743CD.5030408@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> <48A743CD.5030408@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <48A775E6.8010203@scheie.homedns.org> Oh, this is just too cool! After the little hiccup mentioned below, the rest of the steps were a walk in the park. The new version looks great--especially the thumbnail screens! Well done, Robert! Peter Peter Scheie wrote: > Never mind, I was just missing libpng-devel. > > Peter Scheie wrote: >> I'm trying to install Robert's latest fl_teachertool, 0.60. Following >> the instructions at >> http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html, >> when I get to the step of untarring the fl_tt tar file, (changing into >> the directory), and running make, I get this error: >> >> g++ `fltk-config --use-images --ldflags` -lXpm -Wall -g `fltk-config >> --cxxflags` -D >> FL_CONFIG=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/fl_teachertool.conf\" -D >> FL_MACLIST=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/fl_teachertool.maclist\" -D >> HOSTINFOFILE=\"/usr/local/etc/fl_teachertool/HOST_INFO_FILE\" -D >> VNCREFLECTOR=\"/usr/bin/vncreflector\" -D >> TIGHTVNCVIEWER=\"/usr/bin/teachertool-vncviewer\" -D >> VNCSNAPSHOT=\"/usr/bin/vncsnapshot\" -D CONVERT=\"/usr/bin/convert\" >> -D REALVNCVIEWER=\"/usr/bin/vncviewer\" -D >> FLTTMESSAGE=\"/usr/local/bin/fl_ttmessage\" -D >> BINDIR=\"/usr/local/bin\" -D SBINDIR=\"/usr/local/sbin\" >> fl_teachertool.o -o fl_teachertool >> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpng >> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status >> make: *** [fl_teachertool] Error 1 >> >> What does this mean? For the record, I do have libX11-devel, >> libXext-devel, libXpm-devel, and libXft-devel installed. But it looks >> like I'm missing something. >> >> Peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Sun Aug 17 02:28:53 2008 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:28:53 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Wrong night to install? :D In-Reply-To: <247FA3BC-9633-4041-AA8F-5999DD6876B9@inlandlakes.org> References: <247FA3BC-9633-4041-AA8F-5999DD6876B9@inlandlakes.org> Message-ID: <994441ae0808161928p6a8d479foeae830884e9aa8d6@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, we had a long day doing some router / load balancer changes. Should be working now. -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Shawn Powers wrote: > There seem to be lots of issues with the mesd repositories today. I guess I > picked the wrong Saturday to reinstall my servers! > > Anyone on the inside know if these are planned issues, and if so, when the > plan is over? :) > > -Shawn > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From robark at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 03:27:15 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:27:15 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] fl_teachertool-0.60 fails at make step In-Reply-To: <48A775E6.8010203@scheie.homedns.org> References: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> <48A743CD.5030408@scheie.homedns.org> <48A775E6.8010203@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Peter Scheie wrote: > Oh, this is just too cool! After the little hiccup mentioned below, the > rest of the steps were a walk in the park. The new version looks > great--especially the thumbnail screens! Well done, Robert! > Thanks Peter. You deserve some credit too as you were the one who requested this feature and helped me realize it was possible. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 01:06:16 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:06:16 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] fl_teachertool-0.60 fails at make step In-Reply-To: References: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> <48A743CD.5030408@scheie.homedns.org> <48A775E6.8010203@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: Wow! This is definitely very very very cool. The step-by-step guide is excellent. My only issue is I didn't see the 16bit 800x600 line in my vncts file. So I didn't worry about it. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Peter Scheie wrote: >> Oh, this is just too cool! After the little hiccup mentioned below, the >> rest of the steps were a walk in the park. The new version looks >> great--especially the thumbnail screens! Well done, Robert! >> > > Thanks Peter. You deserve some credit too as you were the one who > requested this feature and helped me realize it was possible. > > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From moon at smbis.com Mon Aug 18 03:00:58 2008 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:00:58 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors Message-ID: Hello, I downloaded both the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD. First, the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit DVD will not burn using CentOS 5.2 or using MagicISO or Nero on WinXP platform. The file is simply too large. I then tried installing using the 8 K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs on an ABIT AV8 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ based school server. The installation terminates after running through disk 8 with no discernable error message other than there was an error and gives me a reboot button. I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 workstation and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit using the DVD with success. Can you advise if there will be an updated K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD to correct these issues? Please advise. Thank you, Charlie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Mon Aug 18 03:37:57 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:37:57 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A8EE95.9090200@cmosnetworks.com> Moon wrote: > > Hello, I downloaded both the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD. > First, the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit DVD will not burn using CentOS 5.2 or > using MagicISO or Nero on WinXP platform. The file is simply too > large. I then tried installing using the 8 K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs on an > ABIT AV8 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ based school server. The installation > terminates after running through disk 8 with no discernable error > message other than there was an error and gives me a reboot button. > > > > I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 > workstation and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit > using the DVD with success. > > > > Can you advise if there will be an updated K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and > 64bit DVD to correct these issues? > > > > Please advise. > Have you tried doing network installs from that 64-bit DVD image? My preferred method is to use either NFS or FTP installs. Way faster than CD's or even DVD's if you're on 100Mbps. --TP From k12ltsp at rwcinc.net Mon Aug 18 03:56:20 2008 From: k12ltsp at rwcinc.net (Patrick Fleming) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:56:20 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A8F2E4.2070405@rwcinc.net> Where did you download the files from? I haven't heard any complaints on the ISOs that are hosted on bittorrent and I've been hosting them for some time. I even have used the DVD ISO to force upgrade packages by mounting the image as a loopback - I have not tried burning them yet. Moon wrote: > Hello, I downloaded both the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD. First, the > K12LTSP 5EL 64bit DVD will not burn using CentOS 5.2 or using MagicISO or > Nero on WinXP platform. The file is simply too large. I then tried > installing using the 8 K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs on an ABIT AV8 AMD Athlon 64 > 3700+ based school server. The installation terminates after running through > disk 8 with no discernable error message other than there was an error and > gives me a reboot button. > > > > I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 workstation > and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit using the DVD with > success. > > > > Can you advise if there will be an updated K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit > DVD to correct these issues? > > > > Please advise. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Charlie > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From warren at togami.com Mon Aug 18 04:04:00 2008 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:04:00 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48A8F4B0.5010304@togami.com> Are people giving this a try? This is THE successor of K12LTSP so I really expect people to try it and give me feedback. Even "Hey it works great!" is more helpful than silence. I am also interested in suggestions to improve the README file that the user is faced with. Since releasing Beta 1, I fixed a pile of bugs and added some missing features like making Etherboot clients boot automatically. Due to the many fixes there will be a Beta 2 image soon before the planned release candidate. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From robark at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 05:23:45 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:23:45 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] fl_teachertool-0.60 fails at make step In-Reply-To: References: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> <48A743CD.5030408@scheie.homedns.org> <48A775E6.8010203@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:06 PM, David Hopkins wrote: > Wow! This is definitely very very very cool. The step-by-step guide > is excellent. My only issue is I didn't see the 16bit 800x600 line in > my vncts file. So I didn't worry about it. You don't have to change the broadcast window size. But by default it's 800x600. I find most people (including me) run the clients at 1024x768. So it's nice if the broadcast window fits the whole screen. Here is the line I modified in /etc/xinetd.d/vncts. Remember to restart xinetd service vnc-800x600x16 { disable = no socket_type = stream wait = no user = nobody group = tty server = /usr/bin/vncts # server_args = -geometry 800x600 -depth 16 server_args = -geometry 1024x768 -depth 16 } -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From moon at smbis.com Mon Aug 18 05:29:08 2008 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:29:08 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <48A8F4B0.5010304@togami.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <48A8F4B0.5010304@togami.com> Message-ID: <1C3A12B6B4D84460952963BA34E77501@acerpc> Warren, I did download the Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 to play around with. I will get you some feedback as soon as I get a breath from getting the school going for this year. I spent a great deal of time working on the Edubuntu LTSP over the last one and a half years and was running it up through release 7.10. However, with the new 8.04 release it is just too buggy especially around networking. I finally gave up in frustration due to limited response and very confusing documentation. I am now on the K12LTSP RHEL5 version, which has some issues with the 64 bit CD 8 and the 64 bit DVD ISO's. Since the 64 bit has ISO problems I am rolling out the 32 bit K12LTSP RHEL5 version for the school labs as I have to have them up and working ASAP. In the interim I will be trying to get the 64 bit version resolved as I need long term support for the schools as I do this work for them for free. I actually spend anywhere from 8 to 16 hours per week working on their computer systems, network, and phone system. I should be able to get some lab time over the next week to play with Fedora 9 LTSP. Thanks Charlie -----Original Message----- From: Warren Togami [mailto:warren at togami.com] Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:04 AM To: Support list for open source software in schools. Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 Are people giving this a try? This is THE successor of K12LTSP so I really expect people to try it and give me feedback. Even "Hey it works great!" is more helpful than silence. I am also interested in suggestions to improve the README file that the user is faced with. Since releasing Beta 1, I fixed a pile of bugs and added some missing features like making Etherboot clients boot automatically. Due to the many fixes there will be a Beta 2 image soon before the planned release candidate. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From robark at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 05:56:00 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:56:00 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2008/8/17 Moon : > I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 workstation > and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit using the DVD with > success. Not sure what the issue is with the 64bit isos but it is possible to address over 4G with the 32bit version using a PAE kernel. If, your hardware supports PAE. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From nils at breun.nl Mon Aug 18 07:33:25 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:33:25 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <48A8F4B0.5010304@togami.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <48A8F4B0.5010304@togami.com> Message-ID: <97B974E4-1232-4B09-9267-44B80AFA37AE@breun.nl> Warren Togami wrote: > Are people giving this a try? > > This is THE successor of K12LTSP so I really expect people to try it > and give me feedback. Even "Hey it works great!" is more helpful > than silence. I am also interested in suggestions to improve the > README file that the user is faced with. > > Since releasing Beta 1, I fixed a pile of bugs and added some > missing features like making Etherboot clients boot automatically. > Due to the many fixes there will be a Beta 2 image soon before the > planned release candidate. I really appreciate all the work you've put into this K12LTSP successor, but as long as it's Fedora-based it's not really an interesting option for us. Let me explain: until this was released the CentOS-based K12LTSP 5EL was the only supported K12LTSP release (since the last Fedora-based release was based on Fedora Core 6 which reached EOL some time ago) and since we're running LTSP servers in places that have no on site support staff and where volunteers are using the computers I'd rather not go and install a Fedora-based distribution. I like Fedora for a personal/development desktop, but these are places where everything has to just work and keep on working for longer periods of time. With the amount of updates coming out for Fedora and the much shorter lifecycle (13 months for Fedora versus 7 years for CentOS) it's just not something I look forward to installing in production. I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I'd just like to let you know. Again, I do appreciate all the hard work. Nils Breunese. From nils at breun.nl Mon Aug 18 07:34:52 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:34:52 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] fl_teachertool-0.60 fails at make step In-Reply-To: References: <48A740F8.5090907@scheie.homedns.org> <48A743CD.5030408@scheie.homedns.org> <48A775E6.8010203@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: <678C322F-7572-40BA-BE59-CE8531E3CAD3@breun.nl> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > You don't have to change the broadcast window size. But by default > it's 800x600. I find most people (including me) run the clients at > 1024x768. So it's nice if the broadcast window fits the whole screen. > Here is the line I modified in /etc/xinetd.d/vncts. Remember to > restart xinetd > > service vnc-800x600x16 > { > disable = no > socket_type = stream > wait = no > user = nobody > group = tty > server = /usr/bin/vncts > # server_args = -geometry 800x600 -depth 16 > server_args = -geometry 1024x768 -depth 16 > } For consistency's sake it might be nice to also change the service name accordingly? :o) Nils Breunese. From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Mon Aug 18 11:53:34 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:53:34 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219060414.25284.19.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 23:00 -0400, Moon wrote: > Hello, I downloaded both the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD. > First, the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit DVD will not burn using CentOS 5.2 or > using MagicISO or Nero on WinXP platform. The file is simply too > large. I then tried installing using the 8 K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs on an > ABIT AV8 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ based school server. The installation > terminates after running through disk 8 with no discernable error > message other than there was an error and gives me a reboot button. > You must use a double-layer DVD for the burn for the 64-bit image. Then it works OK. The 64-bit OS has many more libs than the 32 as it must also support 32-bit applications. Thus the larger size. By the time the LTSP and school applications are added, it simply won't fit on a single layer DVD. Try installing from the network install process. Burn a CD of the image.iso file from the images directory and make the loop-back mounted DVD image available through a NFS or HTTP share process. Make sure when using any home burned CD/DVD that the image files have their MD5/SHA1 checksum verified and then the first time they are used it is best to do the disk check process on each disk to verify the burn was accurate. > > > I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 > workstation and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit > using the DVD with success. > > > > Can you advise if there will be an updated K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and > 64bit DVD to correct these issues? > > > > Please advise. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Charlie > > > > > > > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk Mon Aug 18 13:12:11 2008 From: brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk (Brian Chivers) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:12:11 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors In-Reply-To: <1219060414.25284.19.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <1219060414.25284.19.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <48A9752B.6030004@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> I downloaded & installed the 64Bit CD's the other day without issue. Used Nero to burn the iso's. Brian James P. Kinney III wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 23:00 -0400, Moon wrote: >> Hello, I downloaded both the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD. >> First, the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit DVD will not burn using CentOS 5.2 or >> using MagicISO or Nero on WinXP platform. The file is simply too >> large. I then tried installing using the 8 K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs on an >> ABIT AV8 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ based school server. The installation >> terminates after running through disk 8 with no discernable error >> message other than there was an error and gives me a reboot button. >> > > You must use a double-layer DVD for the burn for the 64-bit image. Then > it works OK. The 64-bit OS has many more libs than the 32 as it must > also support 32-bit applications. Thus the larger size. By the time the > LTSP and school applications are added, it simply won't fit on a single > layer DVD. Try installing from the network install process. Burn a CD of > the image.iso file from the images directory and make the loop-back > mounted DVD image available through a NFS or HTTP share process. > > Make sure when using any home burned CD/DVD that the image files have > their MD5/SHA1 checksum verified and then the first time they are used > it is best to do the disk check process on each disk to verify the burn > was accurate. >> >> >> I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 >> workstation and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit >> using the DVD with success. >> >> >> >> Can you advise if there will be an updated K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and >> 64bit DVD to correct these issues? >> >> >> >> Please advise. >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> >> Charlie >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily the views of Portsmouth College From microman at cmosnetworks.com Mon Aug 18 13:33:53 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:33:53 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <97B974E4-1232-4B09-9267-44B80AFA37AE@breun.nl> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <48A8F4B0.5010304@togami.com> <97B974E4-1232-4B09-9267-44B80AFA37AE@breun.nl> Message-ID: <48A97A41.8000108@cmosnetworks.com> Nils Breunese wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: > >> Are people giving this a try? >> >> This is THE successor of K12LTSP so I really expect people to try it >> and give me feedback. Even "Hey it works great!" is more helpful >> than silence. I am also interested in suggestions to improve the >> README file that the user is faced with. >> >> Since releasing Beta 1, I fixed a pile of bugs and added some missing >> features like making Etherboot clients boot automatically. Due to >> the many fixes there will be a Beta 2 image soon before the planned >> release candidate. > > I really appreciate all the work you've put into this K12LTSP > successor, but as long as it's Fedora-based it's not really an > interesting option for us. Let me explain: until this was released the > CentOS-based K12LTSP 5EL was the only supported K12LTSP release (since > the last Fedora-based release was based on Fedora Core 6 which reached > EOL some time ago) and since we're running LTSP servers in places that > have no on site support staff and where volunteers are using the > computers I'd rather not go and install a Fedora-based distribution. I > like Fedora for a personal/development desktop, but these are places > where everything has to just work and keep on working for longer > periods of time. > > With the amount of updates coming out for Fedora and the much shorter > lifecycle (13 months for Fedora versus 7 years for CentOS) it's just > not something I look forward to installing in production. I don't know > if I'm alone in this, but I'd just like to let you know. > > Again, I do appreciate all the hard work. > > Nils Breunese. No, you're hardly alone, Nils. I run into the same thing you do. When I've done LTSP workshops, I've used K12LTSP, and it's great! But when my workshop attendees learn that they have to upgrade their OS's every year, they balk...until I mention K12LTSP EL. Then they start smiling again. I know of five Windows-to-K12LTSP conversions that happened for exactly this reason. And then, especially in the USA, you have the scared school administrators and army of hostile (read: scared) MCSE's. 'Nuff said there. That said, I will happily use Fedora-based K12LTSP for my workshops and also my personal desktop. Fedora's desktop is gorgeous--practically a work of art--and the new features are a great hook for snagging folks teetering on the fence. I've been swamped with house construction for the last several months. Soon as I get it to a usable state, I'll jump in and test as well. --TP From scott at steibel.org Mon Aug 18 14:56:43 2008 From: scott at steibel.org (Scott Steibel) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:43 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] searching archives Message-ID: <48A98DAB.1000102@steibel.org> How do I search the archives of this listserve. I can get to them here https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/ But how do I all of them without going into each month thanks From mel at melwade.com Mon Aug 18 15:02:43 2008 From: mel at melwade.com (Mel Wade) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:02:43 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43080f460808180802j3271e402kec364261c929b501@mail.gmail.com> Any word on when this will be included in the K12LTSP-EL5 repos so we can yum update? On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:15 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > Download it here > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/download.html > > Here are the detailed install instructions > http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/installation.html > > I have not yet updated screenshots on my website. > > Please send bug reports to me. Thanks. > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- Mel Wade "The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner http://www.melwade.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nils at breun.nl Mon Aug 18 15:06:30 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:06:30 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] searching archives In-Reply-To: <48A98DAB.1000102@steibel.org> References: <48A98DAB.1000102@steibel.org> Message-ID: <2D805F1A-E36A-4EA2-8BAE-D662D194EC32@breun.nl> Scott Steibel wrote: > How do I search the archives of this listserve. I can get to them > here > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/ > > But how do I all of them without going into each month Mailman doesn't provide a search function. You could use Google: site:www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn your search terms Or maybe there is some site that mirrors the list archives and does provide a search function. Nils Breunese. From thewhitmers at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 15:09:47 2008 From: thewhitmers at gmail.com (David Whitmer) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:09:47 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] searching archives In-Reply-To: <48A98DAB.1000102@steibel.org> References: <48A98DAB.1000102@steibel.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Scott Steibel wrote: > How do I search the archives of this listserve. I can get to them here > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/ > > But how do I all of them without going into each month > > thanks > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > Scott, What I do is search on Google using: "whatever-I'm-searching-on [K12OSN] site:redhat.com" Including the "[K12OSN]" helps to eliminate from the search results anything unrelated to this list. I hope this helps! David Whitmer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warren at togami.com Mon Aug 18 15:11:03 2008 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:03 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <48A97A41.8000108@cmosnetworks.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <48A8F4B0.5010304@togami.com> <97B974E4-1232-4B09-9267-44B80AFA37AE@breun.nl> <48A97A41.8000108@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48A99107.8040309@togami.com> Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > > No, you're hardly alone, Nils. I run into the same thing you do. When > I've done LTSP workshops, I've used K12LTSP, and it's great! But when > my workshop attendees learn that they have to upgrade their OS's every > year, they balk...until I mention K12LTSP EL. Then they start smiling > again. I know of five Windows-to-K12LTSP conversions that happened for > exactly this reason. > > And then, especially in the USA, you have the scared school > administrators and army of hostile (read: scared) MCSE's. 'Nuff said > there. > > That said, I will happily use Fedora-based K12LTSP for my workshops and > also my personal desktop. Fedora's desktop is gorgeous--practically a > work of art--and the new features are a great hook for snagging folks > teetering on the fence. Even if you are not going to use it in production yet, I seriously need feedback on it to be sure we're not missing things when people upgrade from LTSP4.2 to LTSP5. And as far as the upgrade cycle goes, it is likely that if you deploy an upcoming (a few months) Fedora 10 based LTSP5, you are only one upgrade cycle away from an EL6 based LTSP5. Given that the technology is much better there than EL5 with ancient LTSP4.2, it might be worth the one-time pain of upgrading. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Mon Aug 18 17:04:32 2008 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:04:32 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] searching archives In-Reply-To: <48A98DAB.1000102@steibel.org> References: <48A98DAB.1000102@steibel.org> Message-ID: <994441ae0808181004mee0c3c4w50e93f64e8ff338b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Scott Steibel wrote: > How do I search the archives of this listserve. I can get to them here > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/ > > But how do I all of them without going into each month Gmane has a search box: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.k12osn Markmail is pretty neat too: http://markmail.org/browse/com.redhat.k12osn -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Aug 19 05:35:09 2008 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:35:09 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. Message-ID: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Is anyone interested in helping make Sugar[1] available on the k12ltsp? We have recently spun off development of Sugar from One Laptop Per Child to Sugar Labs in an effort to make Sugar more widely available. I am currently working on 'getting Sugar into the classroom' outreach. The main concern I am hearing from educators is the importance of easy to install and maintain Sugar distributions. I have been working with the distributions to include Sugar packages in their upcoming releases. We are making particularly good progress at Fedora with the help of Gregdek. Does this sound like an interesting and useful project? Does it align with the technical and social goals of k12ltsp? If so, please feel free to contact me here or at the k-12 Open Minds conference[2]. . thanks dfarning 1. http://sugarlabs.org/go/Main_Page 2. http://www.k12openminds.org/ From nils at breun.nl Tue Aug 19 06:43:05 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:43:05 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> David Farning wrote: > Is anyone interested in helping make Sugar[1] available on the > k12ltsp? > > We have recently spun off development of Sugar from One Laptop Per > Child > to Sugar Labs in an effort to make Sugar more widely available. > > I am currently working on 'getting Sugar into the classroom' outreach. > The main concern I am hearing from educators is the importance of easy > to install and maintain Sugar distributions. > > I have been working with the distributions to include Sugar packages > in > their upcoming releases. We are making particularly good progress at > Fedora with the help of Gregdek. > > Does this sound like an interesting and useful project? Does it align > with the technical and social goals of k12ltsp? If so, please feel > free > to contact me here or at the k-12 Open Minds conference[2]. > . Correct me if I'm wrong, but the successor to K12LTSP (and the previous non-EL K12LTSP releases) are based on Fedora, so doesn't that automatically make Sugar available? Nils Breunese. From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Aug 19 07:01:08 2008 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 02:01:08 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> Message-ID: <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 08:43 +0200, Nils Breunese wrote: > David Farning wrote: > > > Is anyone interested in helping make Sugar[1] available on the > > k12ltsp? > > > > We have recently spun off development of Sugar from One Laptop Per > > Child > > to Sugar Labs in an effort to make Sugar more widely available. > > > > I am currently working on 'getting Sugar into the classroom' outreach. > > The main concern I am hearing from educators is the importance of easy > > to install and maintain Sugar distributions. > > > > I have been working with the distributions to include Sugar packages > > in > > their upcoming releases. We are making particularly good progress at > > Fedora with the help of Gregdek. > > > > Does this sound like an interesting and useful project? Does it align > > with the technical and social goals of k12ltsp? If so, please feel > > free > > to contact me here or at the k-12 Open Minds conference[2]. > > . > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but the successor to K12LTSP (and the > previous non-EL K12LTSP releases) are based on Fedora, so doesn't that > automatically make Sugar available? > > Nils Breunese. Yes, the desktop packages themselves will be available soon in Fedora. We need to solve the 'Full, turnkey install for use in schools' part before we are widely accepted in schools. thanks dfarning From Steven at SimplyCircus.com Tue Aug 19 11:45:04 2008 From: Steven at SimplyCircus.com (Steven Santos) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:45:04 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the successor to K12LTSP (and the >> previous non-EL K12LTSP releases) are based on Fedora, so doesn't that >> automatically make Sugar available? >> >> Nils Breunese. > Yes, the desktop packages themselves will be available soon in Fedora. > We need to solve the 'Full, turnkey install for use in schools' part > before we are widely accepted in schools. Meaning what, exactly? --- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven at SimplyCircus.com Mail: 14 Pierrepont Road Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 617-527-0667 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Aug 19 16:04:20 2008 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:04:20 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: <1219161860.7224.408.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 07:45 -0400, Steven Santos wrote: > >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the successor to K12LTSP (and the > >> previous non-EL K12LTSP releases) are based on Fedora, so doesn't that > >> automatically make Sugar available? > >> > >> Nils Breunese. > > > Yes, the desktop packages themselves will be available soon in Fedora. > > > We need to solve the 'Full, turnkey install for use in schools' part > > before we are widely accepted in schools. > > Meaning what, exactly? > We don't really know yet. That's why thought I would ask you guys;) Seriously, the question of what can we do to use technology to help kids learn is still open. At Sugar Labs, we are taking the approach that learning benefits from a exploratory and collaborative approach. The OLPC approach is to provide an entire educational 'stack'. The stack includes hardware, software, and content. There are certain advantages to that approach. At Sugar Labs, we are trying to modularize the stack so consumers can pick and chose which hardware, software, (desktop, server, and, activities), and content they want to implement. Our first phase had been to increase the number of platforms that support the Sugar desktop. There are active groups building packages for Fedora, Debian, and Ubuntu. Educational SIGS are taking the packages and rolling them into Sugar spins and liveCDs. We are working with embedded groups to help them port Sugar to various devices. The second phase is to start developing various Sugar server setups that can take advantage of the collaborative element of the desktop. Then make these server setups available to educators for feedback about what work and what does not work. It seems the the k12ltsp is a good match for developing such a server setup. thanks dfarning From carl at snarlnet.com Tue Aug 19 20:26:41 2008 From: carl at snarlnet.com (Carl Keil) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:26:41 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? Message-ID: <48AB2C81.1090506@snarlnet.com> Hey, Can someone point me to a current samba/ldap how to? This is my first foray into ldap. Is there any prep I should do before I start? Is it way easier to start off with a list of all users? What format should that be in, etc. Or is it easy to add later? What decisions should I make before I start. Thanks a lot, ck From microman at cmosnetworks.com Tue Aug 19 20:56:51 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:56:51 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors In-Reply-To: <6488EC96F15D4253B06EE2A7C7C53268@acerpc> References: <48A8EE95.9090200@cmosnetworks.com> <6488EC96F15D4253B06EE2A7C7C53268@acerpc> Message-ID: <48AB3393.8050504@cmosnetworks.com> Well, you've got to remember that this list is specifically focused on Free Software in K-12 environments, unlike the Ubuntu list which is more general and tends to focus more on home users. Not a slam on them, just a different focus. For historical reasons, we're mostly K12LTSP, yes, since K12LTSP was all there was at first. But we've also been known to answer Edubuntu and even SkoleLinux questions, since some of us run those as well. Here's some documentation, with screenshots, on how to do NFS installs with RHEL/CentOS (Google was my friend, hint hint). Though these instructions are for RHEL/CentOS 4.x, they work equally well with any other version of RHEL/CentOS and Fedora (and thus, K12LTSP). http://bashcurescancer.com/centos_rhel_nfs_install_text.html The FTP install is very similar, except that you use an FTP daemon on the "source" server instead of the NFS daemon. --TP Moon wrote: > Hadn't tried the network install from a DVD image. To be honest, I have > never done an install that way. I had been using Edubuntu in a local school > I provide free support to. The Edubuntu LTSP server v7.10 has never been > very robust and seems to perform slowly since I set it up last fall. I tried > upgrading to the Edubuntu LTSP server 8.04.1 version recently but found > additional networking issues as well as other items that cropped up since > they changed from LTSP 4.2 base to the newer 5.0 platform. I decided to dump > Edubuntu LTSP server and go with K12LTSP, but now have run into this problem > with the 64 bit images. I will look into network install of the DVD as soon > as I can figure it out. Right now I have to go ahead and get the server back > up by tomorrow afternoon as there will be a special class offered on > OpenOffice.org then. If you have any documentation or a link to point me to > for the network install procedure it would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks for the feedback. I have to say, I never got this quick of a response > before in any of the Ubuntu forums, especially related to Edubuntu LTSP. > > Thank again > > Charlie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terrell Prude' Jr. [mailto:microman at cmosnetworks.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:38 PM > To: moon at smbis.com; Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors > > Moon wrote: > >> Hello, I downloaded both the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD. >> First, the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit DVD will not burn using CentOS 5.2 or >> using MagicISO or Nero on WinXP platform. The file is simply too >> large. I then tried installing using the 8 K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs on an >> ABIT AV8 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ based school server. The installation >> terminates after running through disk 8 with no discernable error >> message other than there was an error and gives me a reboot button. >> >> >> >> I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 >> workstation and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit >> using the DVD with success. >> >> >> >> Can you advise if there will be an updated K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and >> 64bit DVD to correct these issues? >> >> >> >> Please advise. >> >> > > Have you tried doing network installs from that 64-bit DVD image? My > preferred method is to use either NFS or FTP installs. Way faster than > CD's or even DVD's if you're on 100Mbps. > > --TP > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Tue Aug 19 20:59:00 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:59:00 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors In-Reply-To: <6488EC96F15D4253B06EE2A7C7C53268@acerpc> References: <48A8EE95.9090200@cmosnetworks.com> <6488EC96F15D4253B06EE2A7C7C53268@acerpc> Message-ID: <48AB3414.6010501@cmosnetworks.com> Here's another one. This is Red Hat's own documentation and what I myself used to learn how to do it. Again, Google was my friend. --TP http://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/Installation_Guide-en-US/ch-guimode-x86.html Moon wrote: > Hadn't tried the network install from a DVD image. To be honest, I have > never done an install that way. I had been using Edubuntu in a local school > I provide free support to. The Edubuntu LTSP server v7.10 has never been > very robust and seems to perform slowly since I set it up last fall. I tried > upgrading to the Edubuntu LTSP server 8.04.1 version recently but found > additional networking issues as well as other items that cropped up since > they changed from LTSP 4.2 base to the newer 5.0 platform. I decided to dump > Edubuntu LTSP server and go with K12LTSP, but now have run into this problem > with the 64 bit images. I will look into network install of the DVD as soon > as I can figure it out. Right now I have to go ahead and get the server back > up by tomorrow afternoon as there will be a special class offered on > OpenOffice.org then. If you have any documentation or a link to point me to > for the network install procedure it would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks for the feedback. I have to say, I never got this quick of a response > before in any of the Ubuntu forums, especially related to Edubuntu LTSP. > > Thank again > > Charlie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terrell Prude' Jr. [mailto:microman at cmosnetworks.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:38 PM > To: moon at smbis.com; Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12LTSP RHEL 5 64 Bit Install Errors > > Moon wrote: > >> Hello, I downloaded both the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and 64bit DVD. >> First, the K12LTSP 5EL 64bit DVD will not burn using CentOS 5.2 or >> using MagicISO or Nero on WinXP platform. The file is simply too >> large. I then tried installing using the 8 K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs on an >> ABIT AV8 AMD Athlon 64 3700+ based school server. The installation >> terminates after running through disk 8 with no discernable error >> message other than there was an error and gives me a reboot button. >> >> >> >> I have used this same hardware platform to run 64bit CentOS 5.2 >> workstation and server previously. I then installed K12LTSP 5EL 32bit >> using the DVD with success. >> >> >> >> Can you advise if there will be an updated K12LTSP 5EL 64bit CDs and >> 64bit DVD to correct these issues? >> >> >> >> Please advise. >> >> > > Have you tried doing network installs from that 64-bit DVD image? My > preferred method is to use either NFS or FTP installs. Way faster than > CD's or even DVD's if you're on 100Mbps. > > --TP > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 23:32:32 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:32:32 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: <43080f460808180802j3271e402kec364261c929b501@mail.gmail.com> References: <43080f460808180802j3271e402kec364261c929b501@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2008/8/18 Mel Wade : > Any word on when this will be included in the K12LTSP-EL5 repos so we can > yum update? I found a bug so I'm going to release a 0.61 sometime in the next few days. But I'm hoping it will be available with yum by Sept when school starts. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From moon at smbis.com Tue Aug 19 23:52:25 2008 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:52:25 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released In-Reply-To: References: <43080f460808180802j3271e402kec364261c929b501@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: School already started in a lot of places here in the USA... One of the schools I support started over a week ago with others starting this week... Thanks for your hard work and dedication; it is greatly appreciated. We need this application in schools to help the teachers with class instruction. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Arkiletian [mailto:robark at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 07:33 PM To: Support list for open source software in schools. Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.60 for K12LTSP 5EL Released 2008/8/18 Mel Wade : > Any word on when this will be included in the K12LTSP-EL5 repos so we can > yum update? I found a bug so I'm going to release a 0.61 sometime in the next few days. But I'm hoping it will be available with yum by Sept when school starts. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 00:06:40 2008 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:06:40 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] 5.0 EL repos dead/outdated? In-Reply-To: <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <54915.216.24.126.66.1208264509.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> <9e29091b0804161458x2ff7b307ucceff2001920f3f4@mail.gmail.com> <26c4defe0808131157o6601f76fhca12ef3934a364b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48AB6010.3080009@gmail.com> Vi Thai wrote: > Hello. I tried this suggestion but it still cannot update. The error > I am getting is: > Error: failure: 5.2/libgcj-4.1.2-42.el5.i386.rpm from k12ltsp: [Errno > 256] No more mirrors to try. > Someone had suggested a firewall issue and that may be my problem. > Does anyone know which port yum uses to update? Thanks, I use the Untangle software for our router/firewall and was having the exact same issue. The Virus scan was messing up yum, after turning it off I was able to update without issues. Check your firewall and see if it is scanning all files for downloads, and see if you can either exempt your machine or turn off the virus scan while you update. -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca Wed Aug 20 02:02:33 2008 From: onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca (Onatawahtaw) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? In-Reply-To: <48AB2C81.1090506@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <345143.87747.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Heya Carl, Interesting you should ask. I am looking for the same thing myself. Anyhow, here are some of the better resources I came up with today. Still haven't tried anything out as it is still a bit of a grey area to me, and am still looking. So if you come across something, or if any of these links help you, let me know. http://download.gna.org/smbldap-tools/docs/samba-ldap-howto/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_(for_Linux_and_Windows) http://www.linuxscrew.com/2008/07/04/openldap-samba-domain-controller-on-debian-or-ubuntu/ http://www.howtoforge.com/openldap-samba-domain-controller-ubuntu7.10 http://www.scribd.com/doc/2205916/Samba-And-Ldap-On-Debian Thanks, -Kevin --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Carl Keil wrote: > From: Carl Keil > Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? > To: k12osn at redhat.com > Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 3:26 PM > Hey, > > Can someone point me to a current samba/ldap how to? This > is my first > foray into ldap. Is there any prep I should do before I > start? Is it > way easier to start off with a list of all users? What > format should > that be in, etc. Or is it easy to add later? What > decisions should I > make before I start. > > Thanks a lot, > > ck > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 03:59:21 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:59:21 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? In-Reply-To: <345143.87747.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <48AB2C81.1090506@snarlnet.com> <345143.87747.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A good place to start is with the installer that David Trask and Matt Oquist put together https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmbLdapInstaller Also, in the mail archives for this list there are numerous discussions of ldap and some of the common pitfalls involved. The list has saved my bacon a few times and I am quite thankful for this resource. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins . On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Onatawahtaw wrote: > Heya Carl, > > Interesting you should ask. I am looking for the same thing myself. Anyhow, here are some of the better resources I came up with today. Still haven't tried anything out as it is still a bit of a grey area to me, and am still looking. So if you come across something, or if any of these links help you, let me know. > > http://download.gna.org/smbldap-tools/docs/samba-ldap-howto/ > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_(for_Linux_and_Windows) > > http://www.linuxscrew.com/2008/07/04/openldap-samba-domain-controller-on-debian-or-ubuntu/ > > http://www.howtoforge.com/openldap-samba-domain-controller-ubuntu7.10 > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/2205916/Samba-And-Ldap-On-Debian > > Thanks, > > -Kevin > > > --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Carl Keil wrote: > >> From: Carl Keil >> Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? >> To: k12osn at redhat.com >> Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 3:26 PM >> Hey, >> >> Can someone point me to a current samba/ldap how to? This >> is my first >> foray into ldap. Is there any prep I should do before I >> start? Is it >> way easier to start off with a list of all users? What >> format should >> that be in, etc. Or is it easy to add later? What >> decisions should I >> make before I start. >> >> Thanks a lot, >> >> ck >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca Wed Aug 20 05:21:10 2008 From: onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca (Onatawahtaw) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? In-Reply-To: <345143.87747.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <604817.20590.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here is an update to the article I originally gave you. I have started to work through it myself, so wish me luck. :) These articles were written by a guy named Richard Maloley II. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=640760 and http://www.rrcomputerconsulting.com/articles.php -Kevin --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Onatawahtaw wrote: > > http://www.howtoforge.com/openldap-samba-domain-controller-ubuntu7.10 > From Patrick.Healy at dsusd.us Thu Aug 21 06:46:46 2008 From: Patrick.Healy at dsusd.us (Healy, Patrick) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:46:46 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 Message-ID: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CA@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 Warren Togami wrote: Even if you are not going to use it in production yet, I seriously need feedback on it to be sure we're not missing things when people upgrade from LTSP4.2 to LTSP5. ----------- Wow, Warren this is great. I'd planned on trying Ubuntu or Centos on a new installation for fall. But this works now. Out of the box. Server: Intel Q6600 (2.4 GHz quad core) 8 GB Ram (PAE) Gigabyte P35 Motherboard (image installed to hard drive, and updated to PAE kernel) Thin Client Test Results follow (all PXE) Works fine on medium power thin client Celeron 366 MHz, 128 MB Ram, i810 graphics and sound OK 1'20" boot time 0'16" login time (no noticeable difference with 256 MB Ram) Barely acceptable on ebox 2300 SiS 200 MHz, 64 MB Ram plus 64 MB for onboard graphics Sound OK (but visualization needed to be off to play music in Totem) 3'20" boot time 1'10" login time Worked well on old Fujitsu laptop but no sound PIII 1 GHz, 256 MB Ram, ATI Mach 64 graphics Yamaha AC-XG sound (inoperative, but it didn't work on LTSP4.2 either) 0'35" boot time 0'12" login time Here's some random feedback: The README file on the desktop was great (there was one typo in the spelling of "persistent") It lists the homepage as k12linux.fedorahosted.org, but I believe you'd want to reference https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux I thought that the network changes I performed would persist on install to hard drive, but they needed to be redone. My live USB booted on my laptop but not on my server, even after trying lots of different BIOS settings. So I burned the iso to DVD for the server trial, and that worked fine. Questions: Will there be a 64-bit edition? Will there be Java and Flash and other non-free magic install scripts from k12ltsp? If I install the server at home, then move it to school, what files (resolv.conf etc) will I have to edit to not have nameserver problems? Is Fedora 10 just around the corner? Thanks for all your dedication. Patrick Healy, Palm Desert High School From wtogami at redhat.com Thu Aug 21 07:06:51 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:06:51 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CA@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> References: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CA@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> Message-ID: <48AD140B.5090304@redhat.com> Healy, Patrick wrote: > On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 Warren Togami wrote: > > Even if you are not going to use it in production yet, I seriously need feedback on it to be sure we're not missing things when people upgrade from LTSP4.2 to LTSP5. > ----------- > > Wow, Warren this is great. > I'd planned on trying Ubuntu or Centos on a new installation for fall. > But this works now. Out of the box. Thanks for the detailed report. Some replies below. > > Server: Intel Q6600 (2.4 GHz quad core) > 8 GB Ram (PAE) Gigabyte P35 Motherboard > (image installed to hard drive, and updated to PAE kernel) > > Thin Client Test Results follow (all PXE) > > Works fine on medium power thin client > Celeron 366 MHz, 128 MB Ram, > i810 graphics and sound OK > 1'20" boot time > 0'16" login time > (no noticeable difference with 256 MB Ram) > > Barely acceptable on ebox 2300 > SiS 200 MHz, 64 MB Ram plus 64 MB for onboard graphics > Sound OK (but visualization needed to be off to play music in Totem) > 3'20" boot time > 1'10" login time I have one of these. I can agree that performance is barely acceptable. This is a pretty terrible machine. I did get boot down to 42 seconds late last year when the Fedora client chroot had a lot less stuff (most features including sound, local devices were broken) and with NBD boot instead of NFS. I hear from LTSP 4.2 users that performance was a lot better with the ancient kernel and X of that client chroot. I don't know exactly what was different back then or if it would be possible to "fix" anything in modern software to reclaim some performance. How many of these clients do you have? I'm 90% to making NBD boot a standard option (but not default) of Fedora LTSP5. It should be an option in the next LTSP update that should be in the Live Beta 2. > > Here's some random feedback: > > The README file on the desktop was great (there was one typo in the spelling of "persistent") Thanks. Petre is working on a revamped HTML version of the README with screenshots for Beta 2. Petre, could you post those at a URL when you have a draft so folks here can peer review it? > > It lists the homepage as k12linux.fedorahosted.org, but I believe you'd want to reference > https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux Both work... although I hope to secure k12linux.org before the final ISO is released, and we would use that instead. Or if we cannot obtain k12linux.org, then the name of the project will have to change. Creating the logo and custom login screen for LDM is held up on finalizing the name as well. > > I thought that the network changes I performed would persist on install to hard drive, but they needed to be redone. Yeah, this is a limitation of Fedora Live's design in general. People have to realize that using the Live runtime is ONLY A DEMO or to install, but not a mix of the two. > > My live USB booted on my laptop but not on my server, even after trying lots of different BIOS settings. So I burned the iso to DVD for the server trial, and that worked fine. USB boot is not very well standardized. Most modern BIOS can handle USB boot, but only one of two incompatible ways. Some machines can boot only if you install it to the first partition of the USB disk. Other machines can boot only if you install directly to the disk itself without partitions. Then you have to get the bootloader setup properly for that particular target. > > > Questions: > > Will there be a 64-bit edition? I suppose I can do this for Beta 2. > > Will there be Java and Flash and other non-free magic install scripts from k12ltsp? Fedora can distribute only 100% Free and Open Source Software. I think we can include links though from the new and improved HTML readme's. > > If I install the server at home, then move it to school, > what files (resolv.conf etc) will I have to edit to not have nameserver problems? This is very network dependent and there is no single answer unfortunately. > > Is Fedora 10 just around the corner? Beta freeze is soon. Fedora 10 release is within a few months. I don't remember the schedule off the top of my head. Fedora LTSP release schedules have little to do with Fedora distribution release schedules. We can do these Live LTSP Server spins whenever we feel it is in good shape. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From sbarar at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 07:33:11 2008 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:03:11 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <48AD140B.5090304@redhat.com> References: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CA@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> <48AD140B.5090304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <774593a20808210033n41e2f994w1bd9f728092f93e7@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/21 Warren Togami : > Healy, Patrick wrote: >> >> Barely acceptable on ebox 2300 >> SiS 200 MHz, 64 MB Ram plus 64 MB for onboard graphics >> Sound OK (but visualization needed to be off to play music in Totem) >> 3'20" boot time >> 1'10" login time > > I have one of these. I can agree that performance is barely acceptable. > This is a pretty terrible machine. I did get boot down to 42 seconds late > last year when the Fedora client chroot had a lot less stuff (most features > including sound, local devices were broken) and with NBD boot instead of > NFS. I hear from LTSP 4.2 users that performance was a lot better with the > ancient kernel and X of that client chroot. I don't know exactly what was > different back then or if it would be possible to "fix" anything in modern > software to reclaim some performance. > I have not tried this out but are you working with IceWm or full Gnome desktop? -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From Steven at SimplyCircus.com Thu Aug 21 13:59:17 2008 From: Steven at SimplyCircus.com (Steven Santos) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:59:17 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <48AD140B.5090304@redhat.com> References: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CA@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> <48AD140B.5090304@redhat.com> Message-ID: >> Questions: >> Will there be Java and Flash and other non-free magic install scripts from k12ltsp? > Fedora can distribute only 100% Free and Open Source Software. I think > we can include links though from the new and improved HTML readme's. Just remember that these magical scripts were one of the most important things in terms of making K12LTSP as user friendly, and as friendly to the non-techie community as it is. Loosing this functionality would be taking a hit. Would it make more sense to see if someone would host these scripts in a related repository? From Steven at SimplyCircus.com Thu Aug 21 14:09:07 2008 From: Steven at SimplyCircus.com (Steven Santos) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:09:07 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <1219161860.7224.408.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <1219161860.7224.408.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: > > > We need to solve the 'Full, turnkey install for use in schools' part > > > before we are widely accepted in schools. > > Meaning what, exactly? > We don't really know yet. That's why thought I would ask you guys;) OK... > Seriously, the question of what can we do to use technology to help kids > learn is still open. > Our first phase had been to increase the number of platforms that > support the Sugar desktop. There are active groups building packages > for Fedora, Debian, and Ubuntu. Educational SIGS are taking the > packages and rolling them into Sugar spins and liveCDs. > The second phase is to start developing various Sugar server setups that > can take advantage of the collaborative element of the desktop. Then > make these server setups available to educators for feedback about what > work and what does not work. > It seems the the k12ltsp is a good match for developing such a server > setup. Let me see if I can help you with this at all... First, this group has a LOT of experience with tech in education, so I think this is a good place to go for help. But this is also a group of very overworked folks, so we don't have tons of time either. The first thing I would recommend you do is download and install the Live USB install, and make sure the Sugar packages with it. Once we know that they work (install and run without crashing things), the next thing to do is ask folks on this list for feedback and suggestions. From tom.hoffman at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 15:00:10 2008 From: tom.hoffman at gmail.com (Tom Hoffman) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:00:10 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: <92de6c880808210800g67a4ed5q2ad89ee0338e2428@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:35 AM, David Farning wrote: > Does this sound like an interesting and useful project? Does it align > with the technical and social goals of k12ltsp? If so, please feel free > to contact me here or at the k-12 Open Minds conference[2]. I would say the main issues would be making sure that Sugar acts in ways that make sense in a multi-user environment. That is, you can log into a Sugar session from GDM like you would another window manager. Once logged in, the collaborative features developed to be used over a local wireless mesh should work exactly the same for children sharing the same server, or other servers on the local wired network, except hopefully, way faster and more stably. You'd also have to decide where your Jabber server and other server infrastructure fits in. --Tom From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Thu Aug 21 15:05:34 2008 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:05:34 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <1219161860.7224.408.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: <1219331134.7212.51.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 10:09 -0400, Steven Santos wrote: > First, this group has a LOT of experience with tech in education, so I think > this is a good place to go for help. But this is also a group of very > overworked folks, so we don't have tons of time either. That is exactly the experience I hope to engage. From my perspective, Sugar Labs and OLPC are still pretty heavy on theory and vision. > The first thing I would recommend you do is download and install the Live > USB install, and make sure the Sugar packages with it. Once we know that > they work (install and run without crashing things), the next thing to do is > ask folks on this list for feedback and suggestions. > Ok. We are currently building communities to help package Sugar for Fedora, Debian, and Ubuntu. We should have stable packages in a couple of weeks. LiveCD and Sugar spins will take a bit longer. Each distro has an education variant, but except for skoleLinux they don't currently have a lot of momentum. I'll follow up on this thread when we have packages that 'just work'. thanks dfarning From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Thu Aug 21 17:15:27 2008 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:15:27 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <92de6c880808210800g67a4ed5q2ad89ee0338e2428@mail.gmail.com> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <92de6c880808210800g67a4ed5q2ad89ee0338e2428@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1219338927.7212.154.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 11:00 -0400, Tom Hoffman wrote: > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:35 AM, David Farning wrote: > > > Does this sound like an interesting and useful project? Does it align > > with the technical and social goals of k12ltsp? If so, please feel free > > to contact me here or at the k-12 Open Minds conference[2]. > > I would say the main issues would be making sure that Sugar acts in > ways that make sense in a multi-user environment. That is, you can > log into a Sugar session from GDM like you would another window > manager. In progress. > Once logged in, the collaborative features developed to be used over a > local wireless mesh should work exactly the same for children sharing > the same server, or other servers on the local wired network, except > hopefully, way faster and more stably. Agreed. > You'd also have to decide where your Jabber server and other server > infrastructure fits in. This is the part that I am trying to figure out. In the original implementation, the desktop was so closely tied to the hardware that working on it required a significant amount of os and hardware knowledge. The learning curve was too steep to engage new developers. As an effect of splitting sugar development from XO development, we are establishing an abstracting layer between the two. My thoughts are to establish a similar abstraction barrier between the XS hardware and the top layer services. thanks dfarning From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 17:20:42 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:20:42 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? Message-ID: An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to libraries. Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers just logging in. Students show up next week. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From tom.hoffman at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 17:26:58 2008 From: tom.hoffman at gmail.com (Tom Hoffman) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:26:58 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <1219338927.7212.154.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <92de6c880808210800g67a4ed5q2ad89ee0338e2428@mail.gmail.com> <1219338927.7212.154.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: <92de6c880808211026q762990c6hc5efaba5ba51de45@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 1:15 PM, David Farning wrote: >> You'd also have to decide where your Jabber server and other server >> infrastructure fits in. > > This is the part that I am trying to figure out. In the original > implementation, the desktop was so closely tied to the hardware that > working on it required a significant amount of os and hardware > knowledge. The learning curve was too steep to engage new developers. > > As an effect of splitting sugar development from XO development, we are > establishing an abstracting layer between the two. > > My thoughts are to establish a similar abstraction barrier between the > XS hardware and the top layer services. I haven't been keeping up with XS development. It used to be relatively hardware independent. How is it tied to hardware now? What's the status of Jabber server installation with the necessary plug-ins for Sugar collaboration? Are there RPMs that work? --Tom From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Thu Aug 21 17:37:26 2008 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:37:26 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <92de6c880808211026q762990c6hc5efaba5ba51de45@mail.gmail.com> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <92de6c880808210800g67a4ed5q2ad89ee0338e2428@mail.gmail.com> <1219338927.7212.154.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <92de6c880808211026q762990c6hc5efaba5ba51de45@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1219340246.7212.175.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 13:26 -0400, Tom Hoffman wrote: > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 1:15 PM, David Farning wrote: > > >> You'd also have to decide where your Jabber server and other server > >> infrastructure fits in. > > > > This is the part that I am trying to figure out. In the original > > implementation, the desktop was so closely tied to the hardware that > > working on it required a significant amount of os and hardware > > knowledge. The learning curve was too steep to engage new developers. > > > > As an effect of splitting sugar development from XO development, we are > > establishing an abstracting layer between the two. > > > > My thoughts are to establish a similar abstraction barrier between the > > XS hardware and the top layer services. > > I haven't been keeping up with XS development. It used to be > relatively hardware independent. How is it tied to hardware now? > > What's the status of Jabber server installation with the necessary > plug-ins for Sugar collaboration? Are there RPMs that work? > > --Tom I'll get back to you shortly about these question. thanks From henryhartley at westat.com Thu Aug 21 17:55:04 2008 From: henryhartley at westat.com (Henry Hartley) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:55:04 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] RE: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <48AD140B.5090304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507AB37A51F@EX-CMS01.westat.com> Warren Togami >> >> Healy, Patrick wrote: >> > Barely acceptable on ebox 2300 >> > SiS 200 MHz, 64 MB Ram plus 64 MB for onboard graphics >> > Sound OK (but visualization needed to be off to play music in Totem) >> > 3'20" boot time >> > 1'10" login time >> >> I have one of these. I can agree that performance is barely >> acceptable. This is a pretty terrible machine.... >> How many of these clients do you have? I have an eBox 2300 that I bought for testing. It has the advantage over recycled computers of being very small, having no fan, and of being new equipment. At $106 each, it has an advantage over purchased thin clients of being nearly half the price or less of its competitors. It would be great if it worked and worked well. If it doesn't, it doesn't and I won't buy any more but I think it's a shame. I guess I'll go with recycled Pentium-IIs and IIIs instead. They are certainly easy to come by. -- Henry From robark at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 18:22:51 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:22:51 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:20 AM, David Hopkins wrote: > > Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers > just logging in. Students show up next week. Try Opera they just released 9.52 today. It is very easy to setup system wide defaults too. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From nils at breun.nl Thu Aug 21 17:58:33 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:58:33 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1AE92360-138A-4AEF-9DE8-2FB2CBB2A855@breun.nl> David Hopkins wrote: > An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a > server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe > Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around > 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ > (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home > directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with > 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. > I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. > I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the > google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is > using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather > upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to > untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to > libraries. We used Firefox 2 from a tarball for a while when CentOS 5 still had Firefox 1.5. We're on Firefox 3 now since CentOS 5.2 comes with that. Both work fine for us, but we have just 10 seats. Can you see what contributes most to the load? System, user, iowait, etc.? Nils Breunese. From wtogami at redhat.com Thu Aug 21 18:00:46 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:00:46 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Firefox performance options for LTSP Message-ID: <48ADAD4E.7000605@redhat.com> general.smoothScroll browser.safebrowsing.enabled These options likely will help performance of the entire server by reducing CPU consumption. But then you need to force these options upon the user with a global config file. Anyone know how to do this? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Thu Aug 21 17:41:36 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:41:36 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48ADA8D0.2060704@redhat.com> David Hopkins wrote: > An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a > server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe > Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around > 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ > (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home > directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with > 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. > I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. > I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the > google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is > using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather > upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to > untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to > libraries. > > Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers > just logging in. Students show up next week. > There was a bug in FF3 that shipped with the original 5.2 that caused major CPU spikes. Did you install all the updates after installing 5.2? Warren From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 18:47:38 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:47:38 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1AE92360-138A-4AEF-9DE8-2FB2CBB2A855@breun.nl> References: <1AE92360-138A-4AEF-9DE8-2FB2CBB2A855@breun.nl> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Nils Breunese wrote: > David Hopkins wrote: > >> An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a >> server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe >> Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around >> 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ >> (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home >> directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with >> 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. >> I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. >> I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the >> google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is >> using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather >> upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to >> untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to >> libraries. > > We used Firefox 2 from a tarball for a while when CentOS 5 still had Firefox > 1.5. We're on Firefox 3 now since CentOS 5.2 comes with that. Both work fine > for us, but we have just 10 seats. Can you see what contributes most to the > load? System, user, iowait, etc.? > Unfortunately, I can't at the moment. But ... tonight I am going to stress test the system thanks to the wonderful package called fl_teachertool and the Run option it has. I'll login all the systems in the tech lab (32 systems) and then launch FF against some flash-heavy site for all accounts, launch staroffice for some more, etc. I have 0.6 installed, and I think this will let me finally have a way to stress test. Not sure why I didn't think of this earlier. I'll also try downloading Opera and seeing if it is transparent enough for the teachers. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 18:49:27 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:49:27 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Firefox performance options for LTSP In-Reply-To: <48ADAD4E.7000605@redhat.com> References: <48ADAD4E.7000605@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Warren Togami wrote: > general.smoothScroll > browser.safebrowsing.enabled > > These options likely will help performance of the entire server by reducing > CPU consumption. But then you need to force these options upon the user > with a global config file. Anyone know how to do this? > I have just edited the firefox.js file in /usr/lib/firefox-xx/defaults/preferences. It seems to set the values globally. (I might have that path off a bit, but ...) Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From Patrick.Healy at dsusd.us Thu Aug 21 19:30:51 2008 From: Patrick.Healy at dsusd.us (Healy, Patrick) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:30:51 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] RE: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 Message-ID: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CC@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> Warren Togami wrote: >> >> Healy, Patrick wrote: >> > Barely acceptable on ebox 2300 >> > SiS 200 MHz, 64 MB Ram plus 64 MB for onboard graphics >> > Sound OK (but visualization needed to be off to play music in Totem) >> > 3'20" boot time >> > 1'10" login time >> >> I have one of these. I can agree that performance is barely >> acceptable. This is a pretty terrible machine.... >> How many of these clients do you have? I've got two of them in service at school (using LTSP 4.2 on FC6) plus eight more that I was going to install. I just tested one at home with a similar setup, and got a 45 second boot and an 8 second login to Gnome. Sound didn't work at home, but it's working at school with different drivers using IceWM. Performance is just OK with that setup, during school, the kids have occasionally noticed some lag from those two stations, compared with the Celeron 366 machines, even on the LTSP 4.2 version using IceWM. But with the LTSP5 on FC9, the lag is quite noticable. Programs are slower to open, and even scrolling down a page in the browser is jumpy and delayed. I'd only use these clients in an emergency with the new system. But they're still better now, than under the Ubuntu LTSP I was trying them with at the beginning of summer (as I recall, that took five minutes to boot the ebox 2300, and just moving the mouse caused music playback to skip). I have over twenty of the Celeron 366 machines, and only bought the ebox's as replacements, since some of my client's power supplies are failing, and the ebox's cost was similar to a power supply (...oh, and they look cool). The boot time isn't critical, as I can leave them on, since they draw so little power. But the usage lag is limiting, and not much can be done about that, I suspect. But I'm very pleased with the performance of the Celeron clients, and haven't even tried IceWM with them yet, as it wasn't on the live image. I'd say that machine (Celeron 366 MHz, 128 MB Ram, i810 graphics and sound) is a good "entry level" client for LTSP5 on FC9. But I'm confused on one thing: Warren Togami wrote: I'm 90% to making NBD boot a standard option (but not default) of Fedora LTSP5. It should be an option in the next LTSP update that should be in the Live Beta 2. I thought I was using NBD boot on this beta. Was it NFS? And what of the ssh login, or was that just under Ubuntu? Thanks again. Patrick Healy Palm Desert High School From wtogami at redhat.com Thu Aug 21 19:46:16 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:46:16 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] RE: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CC@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> References: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CC@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> Message-ID: <48ADC608.3070500@redhat.com> Healy, Patrick wrote: > > Warren Togami wrote: > I'm 90% to making NBD boot a standard option (but not default) of Fedora LTSP5. It should be an option in the next LTSP update that should be in the Live Beta 2. > > I thought I was using NBD boot on this beta. Was it NFS? And what of the ssh login, or was that just under Ubuntu? > The beta uses NFS. Future Fedora LTSP5 will use NFS by default as well. NBD will be an option if you want faster boot. Fedora LTSP5 and anything that uses LDM does logins via ssh. Fedora is different from the others though that we default to LDM_DIRECTX=yes which means X goes unencrypted over the network after the initial username and password which is encrypted. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From sbarar at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 23:20:31 2008 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:50:31 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] RE: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507AB37A51F@EX-CMS01.westat.com> References: <48AD140B.5090304@redhat.com> <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507AB37A51F@EX-CMS01.westat.com> Message-ID: <774593a20808211620k6a40a9f6v51c8068779592b74@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/21 Henry Hartley : > I have an eBox 2300 that I bought for testing. It has the advantage over recycled computers of being very small, having no fan, and of being new equipment. At $106 each, it has an advantage over purchased thin clients of being nearly half the price or less of its competitors. It would be great if it worked and worked well. If it doesn't, it doesn't and I won't buy any more but I think it's a shame. I guess I'll go with recycled Pentium-IIs and IIIs instead. They are certainly easy to come by. > > -- The next gen EBox/Micro Client Sr. http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcsr/index.html have enough processing power within same form factor but pricing goes for a toss. I have one unit as trial and found additional support of USB2 useful for local scanner etc. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Aug 22 04:36:34 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:36:34 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] RE: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <48ADC608.3070500@redhat.com> References: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750A53A5CC@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> <48ADC608.3070500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48AE4252.5050303@redhat.com> Warren Togami wrote: > Healy, Patrick wrote: >> >> Warren Togami wrote: >> I'm 90% to making NBD boot a standard option (but not default) of >> Fedora LTSP5. It should be an option in the next LTSP update that >> should be in the Live Beta 2. >> >> I thought I was using NBD boot on this beta. Was it NFS? And what of >> the ssh login, or was that just under Ubuntu? >> > > The beta uses NFS. Future Fedora LTSP5 will use NFS by default as well. > NBD will be an option if you want faster boot. > > Fedora LTSP5 and anything that uses LDM does logins via ssh. Fedora is > different from the others though that we default to LDM_DIRECTX=yes > which means X goes unencrypted over the network after the initial > username and password which is encrypted. > Now I'm 99% to NBD root. All the code except a script to generate the NBD images is written and pushed to ltsp-trunk upstream. I sent another revision of necessary mkinitrd changes to pjones for code review. Once both pieces are set, I will release ltsp-5.1.20 which supports NBD root boot. I could use some help to write docs at that point. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Fri Aug 22 04:48:20 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:48:20 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1219380500.4029.11.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Take off the flash plugin and see if the load drops. If a bunch of people all use the same web page built with M$ web tools (Designed for IE is a clue!) firefox must work like mad to render it. If it has a mess of flash wiggly things, it _EATS_ cpu time. It doesn't matter if it firefox 2 or 3 or anything. Some things just perform poorly in a heavy multi-user environment. Be sure to use noatime and good swappiness values. Where did you get FF3 for Centos? It doesn't ship with FF3, but FF2 instead. On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 13:20 -0400, David Hopkins wrote: > An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a > server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe > Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around > 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ > (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home > directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with > 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. > I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. > I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the > google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is > using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather > upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to > untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to > libraries. > > Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers > just logging in. Students show up next week. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Fri Aug 22 04:52:01 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:52:01 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1219380500.4029.11.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <1219380500.4029.11.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <1219380721.4029.13.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 00:48 -0400, James P. Kinney III wrote: > Take off the flash plugin and see if the load drops. > > If a bunch of people all use the same web page built with M$ web tools > (Designed for IE is a clue!) firefox must work like mad to render it. If > it has a mess of flash wiggly things, it _EATS_ cpu time. It doesn't > matter if it firefox 2 or 3 or anything. Some things just perform poorly > in a heavy multi-user environment. Be sure to use noatime and good > swappiness values. > > Where did you get FF3 for Centos? It doesn't ship with FF3, but FF2 > instead. My bad. I blinked and didn't notice the change with 5.2. Need sleep... Be sure to upgrade ASAP on the firefox. The beta version was OK for single user but slow for multi-user. > > On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 13:20 -0400, David Hopkins wrote: > > An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a > > server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe > > Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around > > 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ > > (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home > > directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with > > 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. > > I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. > > I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the > > google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is > > using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather > > upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to > > untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to > > libraries. > > > > Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers > > just logging in. Students show up next week. > > > > Sincerely, > > Dave Hopkins > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > -- > James P. Kinney III > CEO & Director of Engineering > Local Net Solutions,LLC > http://www.localnetsolutions.com > > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) > > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 > > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From william at fragakis.com Fri Aug 22 16:35:35 2008 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:35:35 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> Hi, FF3 under certain situations can devote a decent amount of cpu when the history sidebar is open. Also, if anyone knows how to install the adblock plugin across all the users, that'd be helpful in cutting down flash ads and unnecessary graphics. Regards, William On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:20:42 -0400 > From: "David Hopkins" > Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a > server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe > Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around > 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ > (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home > directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with > 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. > I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. > I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the > google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is > using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather > upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to > untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to > libraries. > > Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers > just logging in. Students show up next week. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > From brcisna at eazylivin.net Fri Aug 22 22:03:03 2008 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:03:03 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Samba ADS home folder automatically created Message-ID: <1219442583.30808.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello List, Just curious if anyone can direct me to a link that has a recipe for Samba - w- home folders -ADS / Windows clients,that will automatically create a home folder for each domain user that logs into a dedicated Samba file server with the users home folders residing on it? We have used this setup for 6 years now, but,, I always have to manually add the users H: drive via their profile in AD( on the domain controller).I'm used to this setup,but would like to cut out the having to add the user both on the Windows Domain controller as well as the actual file server. I have seen MANY posts on this " how to" EX: the K12LTSP WIKI,but have never had any of them actually work in the real world.That is,, without adding the user to the Samba file server for the users to log into with their home folder already generated,by having had them added to the Samba server. We are using EL5 K12LTSP. Hope this is clear as mud? Take Care, Barry Cisna From dtrask at vcsvikings.org Fri Aug 22 22:53:10 2008 From: dtrask at vcsvikings.org (David Trask) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:53:10 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? In-Reply-To: References: <48AB2C81.1090506@snarlnet.com> < > <345143.87747.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I recommend installing Version 3.1.1 on Feisty Server....that combination works fantastic! (http://www.majen.net/smbldap/archive/smbldap-installer-3.1.1.tgz) David N. Trask Technology Teacher/Director Vassalboro Community School dtrask at vcsvikings.org (207)923-3100 From einfeldt at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 01:52:58 2008 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:52:58 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] FOSS music composition software for school? Message-ID: <4b5781040808221852k48b279eas53ed13fcb5cf0245@mail.gmail.com> hi I am currently experimenting with GNU Denemo for schools. Please ping me if you know of good Free Software composing music for schools. thx! -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sat Aug 23 12:34:36 2008 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 07:34:36 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] anyone here tried likewise open? Message-ID: <1219494876.1416.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello list, Just curious if anyone here has tried Likewise Open for integrating Samba and Winders AD? Looks like it may be a good tool for us trench people trying to make Linux and Winders AD play together. If anyone has any actual seat time driving this I'd be interested in hearing all of the caveats to it. Looks like the rpm available they have for download is for 2.4 kernel. :( Thanks, Barry Cisna From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sat Aug 23 13:38:59 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:38:59 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Hi William! Try installing adblock at the proxy filter instead. http://notes.ozmonet.com/index.php?title=Network-Wide_Adblock This will use the adblock filter list and squid/squidguard to block the adds for the network. I may have to look at making that a default plugin for squidguard installs :-) On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 12:35 -0400, William Fragakis wrote: > Hi, > FF3 under certain situations can devote a decent amount of cpu when the > history sidebar is open. > > Also, if anyone knows how to install the adblock plugin across all the > users, that'd be helpful in cutting down flash ads and unnecessary > graphics. > Regards, > William > > On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:20:42 -0400 > > From: "David Hopkins" > > Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? > > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a > > server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe > > Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around > > 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ > > (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home > > directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with > > 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. > > I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. > > I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the > > google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is > > using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather > > upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to > > untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to > > libraries. > > > > Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers > > just logging in. Students show up next week. > > > > Sincerely, > > Dave Hopkins > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Aug 23 14:09:44 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:09:44 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? Message-ID: <48B01A28.80406@redhat.com> Hey folks. Have you found manufacturers selling Intel Atom based thin clients? URL's please. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 14:25:48 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:25:48 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the suggestions. Thursday and Friday I had a chance to stress test the server. What I did was log into the 32 systems in the Tech Lab and then I used TeacherTool to automatically launch FF3 on all the logged in accounts against different sites. I also launched quite a few other packages as well. FF3 (with its plugins) by itself would drive the load average way up, and also kept the %idle time on the server near zero. This made the system very sluggish. Following Terrell's instructions, I installed FF2 instead along with all of the same plug-ins that FF3 had installed. Launching FF2 the same way also spiked the load average but the big difference is that after the initial launch, the load average dropped back down to something very reasonable, and the %idle stayed at around 30% (or so). The system stayed responsive to user input, and didn't appear to be hanging or sluggish. I had downgraded the flash plugin to the .48 version instead of the latest version for both FF3 and FF2. Final note: The systems have enough memory that swap was never used in any of the testing. Reports from the Tech Dir said the system had also hung when teachers looked at pdf files. So, I launched acroread for 8 accounts. The load average immediately jumped sky high, and the acroread processes continuously consumed 70% plus of the cpu each. %idle went to 0, and stayed there. Not sure about exactly what this means except it is very repeatable. Using acroread (or the nppdf.so plugin) causes issues. I looked around to try and locate xpdf in a yum repository to use instead, but didn't find it. I'll try and install from downloaded rpm's instead. I am seriously thinking about using one of my servers as an application server and just setting up some of the 'problem' apps to load from it via a ssh session. At least that way the LTS server should stay responsive. I just don't think I can get the plug-ins to behave the same way so it might not work, especially as I need sound to work as well. I am going back into the school today to make sure that all my servers are now 'identical' at CentOS 5. with the same apps and such. I need to add a second ethernet connection for the authentication servers using 'bond with fail-over' to make sure they stay online. And I need to get transparent proxying working since I have a few Windows-based PC's that have to boot from the thin client network. (either that or find a way to run a new line through a concrete floor) :) Again, thanks for all the help. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 9:38 AM, James P. Kinney III wrote: > Hi William! > > Try installing adblock at the proxy filter instead. > http://notes.ozmonet.com/index.php?title=Network-Wide_Adblock > This will use the adblock filter list and squid/squidguard to block the > adds for the network. > > I may have to look at making that a default plugin for squidguard > installs :-) > > On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 12:35 -0400, William Fragakis wrote: >> Hi, >> FF3 under certain situations can devote a decent amount of cpu when the >> history sidebar is open. >> >> Also, if anyone knows how to install the adblock plugin across all the >> users, that'd be helpful in cutting down flash ads and unnecessary >> graphics. >> Regards, >> William >> >> On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:20:42 -0400 >> > From: "David Hopkins" >> > Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? >> > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." >> > >> > Message-ID: >> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> > >> > An interesting (some might say irrititating) problem. Rebuilt a >> > server with CentOS EL5, upgraded to 5.2 Users are running FF3, Adobe >> > Acrobat Reader, and StarOffice. Things work well until reach around >> > 28 users. Then, it just crawls and the load average shoots up to 20+ >> > (this is a 4 processor box with 15Krpm SCSI drives in a RAID 1, home >> > directories are on a dedicated file server). It was running FC6 with >> > 40+ users without issues last year, but I decided to move to CentOS. >> > I have no idea why the system would suddenly become so unresponsive. >> > I want to 'guess' that it is FF related, especially based on the >> > google searches concerning FF3 and performance. Also, FF is using is >> > using 50%+ of the cpu per user. I have to admit that I am rather >> > upset at the moment with FF3, and when I tried the simple approach to >> > untarring a build of FF2, I get all sort of errors related to >> > libraries. >> > >> > Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but this is happening with the teachers >> > just logging in. Students show up next week. >> > >> > Sincerely, >> > Dave Hopkins >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > -- > James P. Kinney III > CEO & Director of Engineering > Local Net Solutions,LLC > http://www.localnetsolutions.com > > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) > > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From nils at breun.nl Sat Aug 23 15:05:46 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:05:46 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: David Hopkins wrote: > Reports from the Tech Dir said the system had also hung when teachers > looked at pdf files. So, I launched acroread for 8 accounts. The load > average immediately jumped sky high, and the acroread processes > continuously consumed 70% plus of the cpu each. %idle went to 0, and > stayed there. Not sure about exactly what this means except it is > very repeatable. Using acroread (or the nppdf.so plugin) causes > issues. I looked around to try and locate xpdf in a yum repository to > use instead, but didn't find it. I'll try and install from downloaded > rpm's instead. I'd try evince instead of acroread or xpdf. Nils Breunese. From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sat Aug 23 15:11:28 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:11:28 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Firefox performance options for LTSP In-Reply-To: <48ADAD4E.7000605@redhat.com> References: <48ADAD4E.7000605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219504288.15657.17.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 14:00 -0400, Warren Togami wrote: > general.smoothScroll > browser.safebrowsing.enabled > > These options likely will help performance of the entire server by > reducing CPU consumption. But then you need to force these options upon > the user with a global config file. Anyone know how to do this? Other than setting that in the master prefs file before creating users, all I can see is to script out the addition to the user.js file for each user if it's not already there. That file is never written to my the userspace about:config process. It is read-only. I don't know if it can be root-owned, global read or not. For that matter a link to a master version may be good, too. http://www.mozilla.org/unix/customizing.html#prefs > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From nadavkav at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 16:03:03 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:03:03 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <489F4E7B.8080504@redhat.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <9923A91E-2C2F-4A94-A1F1-6F4CD67F5220@breun.nl> <4219988b0808100733i74cdee04lee6a4c0fdbde238a@mail.gmail.com> <489EFD4F.8010703@redhat.com> <4219988b0808100740x2edcbb7bncbc8ad6535492989@mail.gmail.com> <489F4E7B.8080504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808230903s366487fai78e9ec4d868ce832@mail.gmail.com> thank you for the patch it works ! :-) i also generated an image for it: wraplinux -E -i initrd.ltsp -p "rw selinux=0 verbose noquiet sysrq=1" -o wrap.ltsp vmlinuz.ltsp i have old etherboot chips on r8139 NIC so i also changed: # Etherboot NBI (older clients) elsif substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "Etherboot" { filename "/ltsp/i386/wrap.ltsp"; #filename "/ltsp/i386/wraplinux-nbi.ltsp"; } :-) 2008/8/10 Warren Togami > Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: > >> it is etherboot. (rtl8139 + etherboot chip i got from disklessworkstation) >> >> what can i do to help in this ? >> >> > Any idea what version of Etherboot? What is its vendor-class-identifier? > > I just committed the attached to ltsp-trunk. This should work on anything > reporting itself as "Etherboot-5.4" in the DHCP request. If your Etherboot > is older though, it becomes a bit difficult to handle automatically. This > is because older Etherboot reported itself as "Etherboot", where some > versions supported only NBI while others were capable of ELF. > > I tried mknbi-linux just now and the resulting NBI seems to just fail. I > cannot prioritize looking further at NBI given how old it is. If somebody > else figures out a way to improve this situation for older Etherboot I'm > willing to review patches. > > Anyhow, give this a try. > > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 16:51:03 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:51:03 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? In-Reply-To: <48B01A28.80406@redhat.com> References: <48B01A28.80406@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 7:09 AM, Warren Togami wrote: > Hey folks. Have you found manufacturers selling Intel Atom based thin > clients? URL's please. This is the asus eee box. The Linux version has yet to be released. http://www.ncixus.com/products/32440/EBXB202-BK-X0023/ASUS/ -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Aug 23 16:57:56 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:57:56 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: NBI and ELF images in Fedora In-Reply-To: <4219988b0808230900s4098ab97t90f0c7b154f20669@mail.gmail.com> References: <48A4EBB3.4050109@redhat.com> <48A4EEA6.2020707@McQuil.com> <4219988b0808230900s4098ab97t90f0c7b154f20669@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B04194.1030906@redhat.com> Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: > since i had no elf.ltsp or wraplinux-nbi.ltsp i used : > > wraplinux -E -i initrd.ltsp -p "rw selinux=0 verbose noquiet sysrq=1" -o > wrap.ltsp vmlinuz.ltsp > > to generate one. > > and then i used > > # Etherboot NBI (older clients) > elsif substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "Etherboot" > { > #filename "/ltsp/i386/wraplinux-nbi.ltsp"; > filename "/ltsp/i386/wrap.ltsp"; > } > > to make it work :-) > This will work automatically with ltsp-server-5.1.20 soon to be released, if you use ltsp-build-client and start with a fresh new dhcpd.conf. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From warren at togami.com Sat Aug 23 16:59:46 2008 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:59:46 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? In-Reply-To: References: <48B01A28.80406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48B04202.1080004@togami.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 7:09 AM, Warren Togami wrote: >> Hey folks. Have you found manufacturers selling Intel Atom based thin >> clients? URL's please. > > This is the asus eee box. The Linux version has yet to be released. > > http://www.ncixus.com/products/32440/EBXB202-BK-X0023/ASUS/ > Hmm, too bad there is no model without a hard drive. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 17:50:33 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:50:33 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 7:25 AM, David Hopkins wrote: > All, > > Thanks for the suggestions. Thursday and Friday I had a chance to > stress test the server. What I did was log into the 32 systems in the > Tech Lab and then I used TeacherTool to automatically launch FF3 on > all the logged in accounts against different sites. I also launched Hi David, I'm wondering how Opera would fair in this test? I know Opera is not Open Source but it has been the only browser that has allowed me to continue teaching with the same old server. Two nice thing are you can force the manual proxy setting for all users easily plus all flash plugins run by default at nice 19. You can download rpm's for it, just get the Red Hat 5 rpm if your using centos 5. > quite a few other packages as well. FF3 (with its plugins) by itself > would drive the load average way up, and also kept the %idle time on > the server near zero. This made the system very sluggish. Following > Terrell's instructions, I installed FF2 instead along with all of the > same plug-ins that FF3 had installed. Launching FF2 the same way also > spiked the load average but the big difference is that after the > initial launch, the load average dropped back down to something very > reasonable, and the %idle stayed at around 30% (or so). The system > stayed responsive to user input, and didn't appear to be hanging or > sluggish. I had downgraded the flash plugin to the .48 version > instead of the latest version for both FF3 and FF2. Final note: The > systems have enough memory that swap was never used in any of the > testing. > > Reports from the Tech Dir said the system had also hung when teachers > looked at pdf files. So, I launched acroread for 8 accounts. The load > average immediately jumped sky high, and the acroread processes > continuously consumed 70% plus of the cpu each. %idle went to 0, and I had this problem too. It was okay with Acroread 7 but 8 was ridiculous. So I am using xpdf now which is fine. But you might want to try evince. I cannot because I'm on k12ltsp 4el. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 18:51:59 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:51:59 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: > I'm wondering how Opera would fair in this test? I know Opera is not > Open Source but it has been the only browser that has allowed me to > continue teaching with the same old server. Two nice thing are you can > force the manual proxy setting for all users easily plus all flash > plugins run by default at nice 19. You can download rpm's for it, just > get the Red Hat 5 rpm if your using centos 5. I'll try installing it, but I've learned that teachers can be very resistant to new things right at the start of the school year. I have few that volunteer to test, so ... I can install Opera and then push some desktop launchers to them. Aside: I don't know if anyone does this, but I am using the skel.groups approach to making sure certain icons appear. I just have scripts in profile.d that run specifically for each group. If a person is in the group, they get the script which checks their desktop and adds/removes icons. So, for my volunteer group, I just have to put a launcher in their 'group' directory. > I had this problem too. It was okay with Acroread 7 but 8 was > ridiculous. So I am using xpdf now which is fine. But you might want > to try evince. I cannot because I'm on k12ltsp 4el. > With 2 votes, I'll try evince instead. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From austinsr at uindy.edu Sat Aug 23 22:10:18 2008 From: austinsr at uindy.edu (Shawn R. Austin) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? In-Reply-To: <48B04202.1080004@togami.com> Message-ID: <1673832010.1780801219529418056.JavaMail.root@merry.is.uindy.edu> There is barebones MSI Wind desktop with no hard drive available at newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-Barebone+Systems-_-MSI-_-56167032 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren Togami" To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:59:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 7:09 AM, Warren Togami wrote: >> Hey folks. Have you found manufacturers selling Intel Atom based thin >> clients? URL's please. > > This is the asus eee box. The Linux version has yet to be released. > > http://www.ncixus.com/products/32440/EBXB202-BK-X0023/ASUS/ > Hmm, too bad there is no model without a hard drive. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From robark at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 00:35:53 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:35:53 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? In-Reply-To: <1673832010.1780801219529418056.JavaMail.root@merry.is.uindy.edu> References: <48B04202.1080004@togami.com> <1673832010.1780801219529418056.JavaMail.root@merry.is.uindy.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Shawn R. Austin wrote: > There is barebones MSI Wind desktop with no hard drive available at newegg. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-Barebone+Systems-_-MSI-_-56167032 I didn't know this even existed! What a super buy for LTSP labs. At $150 it will make an excellent thin client. All you need is some ram. For an extra $20 you can pop in 1GB of ram. Definitely enough for local apps and the atom 1.6 cpu has the power to run a browser. Nice! The motherboard costs $80 alone http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121342 so they are charging $70 for the case and power supply. Not bad. I especially like the external brick PS since it's silent. I just wonder if the rtl8111c nic is supported yet? If anyone buys this please report back to the list as I think many would be interested. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Sun Aug 24 02:51:38 2008 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:51:38 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? In-Reply-To: References: <48B04202.1080004@togami.com> <1673832010.1780801219529418056.JavaMail.root@merry.is.uindy.edu> Message-ID: <994441ae0808231951k41a274f7ve8c8e8dd4f71b677@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > so they are charging $70 for the case and power supply. Not bad. I > especially like the external brick PS since it's silent. I just wonder > if the rtl8111c nic is supported yet? The r8169 driver source mentions that model. FWIW, the 8111C in my new box works fine in the F10 alpha (2.6.27). -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 24 05:12:25 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:12:25 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? In-Reply-To: References: <48B04202.1080004@togami.com> <1673832010.1780801219529418056.JavaMail.root@merry.is.uindy.edu> Message-ID: <48B0EDB9.6070506@redhat.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121342 > > so they are charging $70 for the case and power supply. Not bad. I > especially like the external brick PS since it's silent. I just wonder > if the rtl8111c nic is supported yet? > > If anyone buys this please report back to the list as I think many > would be interested. > http://wtogami.livejournal.com/27915.html I wrote some notes here about three different Intel Atom based clients that I've seen out there based upon analysis of their specifications. NOTE: Although it is not mentioned in the specs, this MSI Wind machine seems to have a fan. 26 dba sound (very quiet but not silent) is mentioned which is likely a fan. Fan has the drawback of being a moving part that has the potential to break. My notes talk about a competitor's thin client that explicitly has no fan. The entire case sounds to be a heatsink, which is a good thing. I really wish we could find something like the TranquilPC T7 Thin Client sold in America. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From robark at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 07:35:49 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 00:35:49 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Intel Atom thin clients? In-Reply-To: <48B0EDB9.6070506@redhat.com> References: <48B04202.1080004@togami.com> <1673832010.1780801219529418056.JavaMail.root@merry.is.uindy.edu> <48B0EDB9.6070506@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Warren Togami wrote: > > http://wtogami.livejournal.com/27915.html > I wrote some notes here about three different Intel Atom based clients that > I've seen out there based upon analysis of their specifications. Nice write up Warren. > > NOTE: Although it is not mentioned in the specs, this MSI Wind machine seems > to have a fan. 26 dba sound (very quiet but not silent) is mentioned which > is likely a fan. Fan has the drawback of being a moving part that has the > potential to break. My notes talk about a competitor's thin client that > explicitly has no fan. The entire case sounds to be a heatsink, which is a > good thing. I think you might be able to get away with disabling the fan on the MSI box. But you can also purchase the MB and case separately here are a couple of possible cases http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154089 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154090 -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From ckollars9 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 24 17:47:03 2008 From: ckollars9 at yahoo.com (Chuck Kollars) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Fans - quiet vs. failure? Message-ID: <145260.19375.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Does anybody have a couple years experience with fanless clients? There's a clear advantage in the much lower noise level. But I suspect the other side of the tradeoff is a very high cost in increased failure rate. I'm old enough to remember when demotivated users caused hardware failures simply by putting a piece of paper over vent holes - I suspect students would accidentally cover vent holes frequently. The last time I stacked up a bunch of Ethernet hubs, all but the bottom one failed within three weeks. And shortly after I rotated a DSL modem so the vent holes were on the sides instead of top and bottom, it failed. Am I just worrying about something that's no longer a problem, or are high failure rates and susceptibility to misuse still big issues? -Chuck Kollars From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Aug 24 17:57:10 2008 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 12:57:10 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Fans - quiet vs. failure? Message-ID: <1219600630.22629.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Chuck, I've used the Ebox2300 for the last three years,at home as well as at school. I wouldn't have anything else. I'm always looking at new hardware that is simple as can be. It has a nice cast finned case. NO fan. Plenty adequate for most any user.There are lots of other small thin clients that will work sweet as well but most have fans.. This simply screws on the back of the LCD with the 4 provided screws.Out of sight out of mind.Put your hand on the case and it is barley warm. Kids cant trash it.USB ports on top to shove a usb stick into.Fits in the palm of your hand. Zero noise,YEAH! Pull it out of the box, screw it on the back of an existing LCD, you have, plug in your K12LTSP network wire,enable PXE in bios,and you are up and running!$106 plus shipping.People at wdlsystems will actually return your phone calls. http://www.wdlsystems.com Take Care Barry Cisna From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Aug 24 18:21:02 2008 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:21:02 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] iperf- jperf network performance monitoring Message-ID: <1219602062.22629.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello list, Just thought this may be of some value to someone here. In troubleshooting a point to point wireless 7 mile link between two of our school buildings, I have used iperf & jperf to try and troubleshoot,what turned out to be water getting into one the of the cat5e cables. These two( jperf is simlpy a GUI for iperf) utils really worked sweet.Worth putting into your toolkit!:).If anyone would like rpm,of jperf,not a biggie,i have built it,for EL5 as well as src.rpm you can build for your particular distro. Just an FYI. Take Care, Barry Cisna From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sun Aug 24 19:11:42 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:11:42 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fans - quiet vs. failure? In-Reply-To: <1219600630.22629.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1219600630.22629.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1219605102.15657.24.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> It's bigger brother (or sister) is looking good as well. http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_services.cgi?r=list_aisle.plate&aisle_id=1040 I have a similar board product but the case does not bolt to the vesa mount holes on a monitor. Currently working to make it "plug-n-play" in K12ltsp-5EL and a modified v. 5 LTSP/Centos 5.2 setup. On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 12:57 -0500, Barry R Cisna wrote: > Chuck, > > I've used the Ebox2300 for the last three years,at home as well as at > school. I wouldn't have anything else. I'm always looking at new > hardware that is simple as can be. It has a nice cast finned case. NO > fan. Plenty adequate for most any user.There are lots of other small > thin clients that will work sweet as well but most have fans.. This > simply screws on the back of the LCD with the 4 provided screws.Out of > sight out of mind.Put your hand on the case and it is barley warm. Kids > cant trash it.USB ports on top to shove a usb stick into.Fits in the > palm of your hand. Zero noise,YEAH! Pull it out of the box, screw it on > the back of an existing LCD, you have, plug in your K12LTSP network > wire,enable PXE in bios,and you are up and running!$106 plus > shipping.People at wdlsystems will actually return your phone calls. > > http://www.wdlsystems.com > > Take Care > > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From nadavkav at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 19:36:33 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:36:33 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> if you are using KDE you can try KIOSK ADMIN TOOL for assigning "desktop settings" profiles for groups and users. i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and takes less memory try the http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2090 (sunspider test) to see. also, a little old but nice to know: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html and btw ! fedora core 6 + ltsp 4.2 is faster then all the other distributions (centos , fc9 + ltsp5 , ubuntu ) do not know why. i did not dive into it. it just is. maybe one day i will have the time to figure it out. On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 9:51 PM, David Hopkins wrote: > > I'm wondering how Opera would fair in this test? I know Opera is not > > Open Source but it has been the only browser that has allowed me to > > continue teaching with the same old server. Two nice thing are you can > > force the manual proxy setting for all users easily plus all flash > > plugins run by default at nice 19. You can download rpm's for it, just > > get the Red Hat 5 rpm if your using centos 5. > > I'll try installing it, but I've learned that teachers can be very > resistant to new things right at the start of the school year. I have > few that volunteer to test, so ... I can install Opera and then push > some desktop launchers to them. > > Aside: I don't know if anyone does this, but I am using the > skel.groups approach to making sure certain icons appear. I just have > scripts in profile.d that run specifically for each group. If a > person is in the group, they get the script which checks their desktop > and adds/removes icons. So, for my volunteer group, I just have to > put a launcher in their 'group' directory. > > > > I had this problem too. It was okay with Acroread 7 but 8 was > > ridiculous. So I am using xpdf now which is fine. But you might want > > to try evince. I cannot because I'm on k12ltsp 4el. > > > > With 2 votes, I'll try evince instead. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moon at smbis.com Sun Aug 24 19:39:02 2008 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:39:02 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] iperf- jperf network performance monitoring In-Reply-To: <1219602062.22629.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1219602062.22629.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <88428C57D9E4435CAC693D31EA3F6949@acerpc> Yes, I would. Please send the link info or just email to me. Thanks, Charlie -----Original Message----- From: Barry R Cisna [mailto:brcisna at eazylivin.net] Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 02:21 PM To: K12LTSP Subject: [K12OSN] iperf- jperf network performance monitoring Hello list, Just thought this may be of some value to someone here. In troubleshooting a point to point wireless 7 mile link between two of our school buildings, I have used iperf & jperf to try and troubleshoot,what turned out to be water getting into one the of the cat5e cables. These two( jperf is simlpy a GUI for iperf) utils really worked sweet.Worth putting into your toolkit!:).If anyone would like rpm,of jperf,not a biggie,i have built it,for EL5 as well as src.rpm you can build for your particular distro. Just an FYI. Take Care, Barry Cisna _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 19:53:42 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:53:42 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and takes less > memory On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As mentioned, I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 system. Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know why, but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some points I'll try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things ready for the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From nadavkav at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 20:01:26 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 23:01:26 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> in one word : Opera On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53 PM, David Hopkins wrote: > > i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and takes less > > memory > > On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As mentioned, > I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no > plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 system. > Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know why, > but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some points I'll > try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things ready for > the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Aug 24 20:07:34 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:07:34 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> A better word: Konqueror It comes with the distro already, is quite a fine browser, and works with the FF plugins. It is my main Internet browser for that reason. --TP Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: > in one word : > Opera > > On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53 PM, David Hopkins > > wrote: > > > i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and > takes less > > memory > > On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As mentioned, > I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no > plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 system. > Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know why, > but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some points I'll > try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things ready for > the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 20:26:20 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:26:20 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: Thanks! I'll try Opera with some test users (anything else will get me 'shot' by teachers). In the meantime, I have query about k12ltsp repos ... are they down again? yum is failing with a metadata mismatch, and yum clean metadata or yum clean all isn't correcting it. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > A better word: > Konqueror > > It comes with the distro already, is quite a fine browser, and works with > the FF plugins. It is my main Internet browser for that reason. > > --TP > > Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: >> >> in one word : >> Opera >> >> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53 PM, David Hopkins > > wrote: >> >> > i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and >> takes less >> > memory >> >> On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As mentioned, >> I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no >> plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 system. >> Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know why, >> but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some points I'll >> try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things ready for >> the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. >> >> Sincerely, >> Dave Hopkins >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From monteslu at cox.net Sun Aug 24 20:29:31 2008 From: monteslu at cox.net (Luis Montes) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:29:31 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: xterminator In-Reply-To: <20070903213700.GA4056@majen.net> References: <20070903160022.2BB21735DF@hormel.redhat.com> <20070903213700.GA4056@majen.net> Message-ID: <48B1C4AB.6070701@cox.net> Matt, I see a gutsy & intrepid folder in the repo. Any chance of a hardy build? Luis Matt Oquist wrote: > I've written a program named 'xterminator' to provide the > functionality of purge_user in edubuntu. This is ready for *testing* > now, so if you want to help me test it please add the following two > lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list file: > > ------------------------------------------ > deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/moquist/ubuntu feisty universe > deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/moquist/ubuntu feisty universe > ------------------------------------------ > This package will work fine on gutsy as well; just use these same two > lines. The following commands will add those lines to the right file: > > $ sudo echo deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/moquist/ubuntu feisty universe >> /etc/apt/sources.list > $ sudo echo deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/moquist/ubuntu feisty universe >> /etc/apt/sources.list > > Then: > $ sudo apt-get update > $ sudo apt-get install xterminator > > xterminator kills ALL of a user's [other] processes when she first > starts an X session. After she terminates her X session, there is > a short delay and all her remaining processes are killed, and then > xterminator exits. > > All this killing of processes is logged in /var/log/syslog. > > I would like to add a config file that lets the administrator specify > whether the killing should happen only at login, only after logout, or > both. But that's not done yet. > > Note the following: > * If you have this on your system, each user can only have one login > session at a time. If you have kids sharing usernames & passwords > then they'll be kicking each other out. (This is part of why the > syslogging is important; it provides more data about what may be > happening when your users complain that their computers crash...) > * If your users depend on cron jobs, ssh sessions, or any other type > of persistent process that runs before, after, or outside > a graphical login session, then xterminator will kill those > processes, too. In fact, a good addition to the config file might be > a list of process names *NOT* to kill, ever. > * If the effective UID of an xterminator process is 0 (i.e., if root > runs 'xterminator', it exits immediately. Oh...but the message it > prints should be to stderr, not stdout. One more thing to fix... > * If you execute xterminator on the command line, it will work there, > too. i.e., it will kill all your processes except your shell and > its ancestors, and after you exit your shell it will clean up all > your other processes on the system. > > --matt > > -- > Open Source Software Engineering Consultant > http://majen.net/ > > From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Aug 24 21:28:12 2008 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:28:12 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] iperf- jperf network performance monitoring Message-ID: <1219613292.733.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Link to jperf.rpm Note: you will need to have iperf installed for jperf to work. iperf is also in the same link provided here. There are both iperf and jperf rpm's for El5 as well as .src.rpm's of each that can be rebuilt to your particular distro. Also, there is a pgp key if you so wish to import into your yum repo.Not necessary,though.( If you do not import the gpg key into your yum repo. you will get the "RPM is not signed" warning.when installing jperf). I have simply built the rpm's from source at the fine folks at jperf.org as there were no rpm's avaiable. jperf is simply a nice GUI for iperf. Once installed simply click the ,>Applications,>System Tools,>JPerf icon,,,:) ftp://eazylivin.net/server/jperf/ Take care, Barry Cisna From pfaffman at relaxpc.com Sun Aug 24 21:38:41 2008 From: pfaffman at relaxpc.com (Jay Pfaffman) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:38:41 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <932609800808241438w76970271x58f67b4aa36ed253@mail.gmail.com> I think it works (the only client I have to test with seems to have an unsupported network card), though it wasn't smart enough to save my Ubuntu boot info, but I suppose I should have known better. The instructions for configuring the network work, though for some of our target audience " As root, edit /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ethX. " won't mean anything. I was also unclear why it was preferable to create a new device rather than just disable the old one. The show-stopper for me is that there is no support for PPC clients. Several schools that I'm working with have piles of old iMacs that work acceptably as clients & having those machines go from unusable, un-upgradable machines that cannot print to a network printer into fast clients is pretty compelling. (OTOH, not compelling enough for the last school that I tried it in to keep using them.) PPC client suport seems important. On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:22 AM, Warren Togami wrote: > Hey folks, > > Below is a LiveUSB or LiveDVD image containing Fedora 9 LTSP server and > the client chroot pre-installed and pre-configured. This is the easiest > way to get started with Fedora LTSP5, or to try it without installing > onto your hard drive. > > Simply boot this Live image and follow the simple README, and you can > within minutes demo serving of thin clients. You can also install onto > a hard drive to create a permanent server. It is all surprisingly > self-explanatory once you have booted to the Desktop. > > https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ > LTSP on Fedora 9 w/ Updates is currently considered to be production > ready, and development of improved features continues rapidly. Check > out our homepage for the latest news and updated instructions. > > Download > ======== > http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/beta1/i686/ > This image is based on Fedora 9 w/ Updates as of August 8th, 2008. It > seems to work great for me in limited tests. > > How to Use LiveUSB? > =================== > https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator > * From Windows you can use LiveUSB creator to make a USB stick bootable > containing this Live image. From Linux, within the ISO is the > livecd-iso-to-disk script which you can use in Linux to make a bootable > USB stick. It is highly recommended that you use a persistent overlay > file of at least 900MB because this reduces the amount of memory needed > for your demo. For this reason you should have at least 2GB free on > your USB stick (~920MB image + 900MB overlay). > * LiveDVD works, but is not recommended unless you have at least 2GB RAM > for your demo. > * Be warned that serving clients from a Live image will eat up your > overlay and RAM rapidly, causing the demo to eventually fail. It should > be fine for a number of client logins. You should install to your hard > drive if you want to do more than just a quick demo. > > FAQ > === > 1) Why is this not called K12LTSP? > It is the plan for Fedora LTSP5 technology to be the successor of Eric > Harrison's highly successful K12LTSP distribution. However we had > planned on changing the name to "K12Linux" to be friendlier sounding and > easier to pronounce when people explain it at educator conferences. > Unfortunately the naming issue remains a bit uncertain because we have > not yet received ownership of k12linux domains from the current owner. > Warren's fault for getting busy and forgetting to follow up in past months. > > 2) Is this the only way to install a Fedora LTSP5 server? > This Live LTSP Server image is only a convenient way for new users to > get started with Fedora LTSP5. Note that it is always possible to > enable LTSP5 on any existing Fedora 9 server by following the > instructions on the above homepage. > > 3) Why not LiveCD? > LiveCD was not possible because we simply cannot fit Server, Client and > apps onto a single disc. If all you have is a CD drive then your > hardware is unlikely powerful enough to serve as a LTSP server. In any > case you should be able to install from the LiveUSB without dealing with > discs at all. > > Release Plan for Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server > ========================================== > If we do not run into any serious problems, I plan on doing a Release > Candidate ISO spin on Thursday, August 21st. If no problems are found > with the RC image, then it will be redubbed as "final" without any changes. > > I hope to get Fedora branding onto the login screen, and the naming > issue straightened out before this release. Delays in the final release > may occur due to this branding stuff. In the mean time, this Beta 1 > spin seems to work well for me. Please give it a try and let me know. > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list > Please send questions or comments to the k12linus-devel-list. > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > -- Jay Pfaffman http://learn.occ.utk.edu/ +1-865-974-0497 From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sun Aug 24 21:57:58 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:57:58 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <932609800808241438w76970271x58f67b4aa36ed253@mail.gmail.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <932609800808241438w76970271x58f67b4aa36ed253@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B1D966.4050207@scheie.homedns.org> Jay Pfaffman wrote: > The instructions for configuring the network work, though for some of > our target audience > > " As root, edit /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ethX. " > > won't mean anything. I've posted the first draft of an HTML version of the README, complete with lots of screenshots, at http://petre.homedns.org/README-LIVE-LTSP-SERVER-SETUP/README-LIVE-LTSP-SERVER-SETUP.html It's slightly different from the plaintext README in some areas, including using the graphical gedit to find and edit ifcfg-ethX. Have alook at it, let me know what you think. Peter From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 24 22:10:57 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:10:57 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <932609800808241438w76970271x58f67b4aa36ed253@mail.gmail.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <932609800808241438w76970271x58f67b4aa36ed253@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B1DC71.8020709@redhat.com> Jay Pfaffman wrote: > > The show-stopper for me is that there is no support for PPC clients. > Several schools that I'm working with have piles of old iMacs that > work acceptably as clients & having those machines go from unusable, > un-upgradable machines that cannot print to a network printer into > fast clients is pretty compelling. (OTOH, not compelling enough for > the last school that I tried it in to keep using them.) > > PPC client suport seems important. I personally have no PPC hardware. The code contains some untested (and most assuredly incomplete) support for PPC. It took John Ellson a very small amount of work to get x86_64 client installs working and booting. Someone else could work on the same for PPC, except they would need a PPC machine running Fedora 9 to do so. If the work is put into making PPC ltsp-build-client work, then we could put the /opt/ltsp/ppc into a tarball. That should theoretically be made bootable after copying to a i386/x86_64 LTSP server and running a few scripts. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From moon at smbis.com Mon Aug 25 00:15:49 2008 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:15:49 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] iperf- jperf network performance monitoring In-Reply-To: <1219613292.733.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1219613292.733.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <71009698113D42A3910F1994A16B9312@acerpc> Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Barry R Cisna [mailto:brcisna at eazylivin.net] Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 05:28 PM To: K12LTSP Subject: [K12OSN] iperf- jperf network performance monitoring Link to jperf.rpm Note: you will need to have iperf installed for jperf to work. iperf is also in the same link provided here. There are both iperf and jperf rpm's for El5 as well as .src.rpm's of each that can be rebuilt to your particular distro. Also, there is a pgp key if you so wish to import into your yum repo.Not necessary,though.( If you do not import the gpg key into your yum repo. you will get the "RPM is not signed" warning.when installing jperf). I have simply built the rpm's from source at the fine folks at jperf.org as there were no rpm's avaiable. jperf is simply a nice GUI for iperf. Once installed simply click the ,>Applications,>System Tools,>JPerf icon,,,:) ftp://eazylivin.net/server/jperf/ Take care, Barry Cisna _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Aug 25 02:58:13 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:58:13 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Release: ltsp-5.1.21 for Fedora 9 Message-ID: <48B21FC5.3090300@redhat.com> http://togami.com/~k12linux-temporary/fedora/9/ I just pushed ltsp-5.1.21 and ldm-2.0.12 to my temporary repo. It should hit Fedora updates later this week. This is likely going to be the basis of the Fedora Live LTSP Server Beta2. (I am still working on the branding issue.) This update contains many bug fixes and additional features over ltsp-5.1.15 currently in Fedora 9 updates. * NBI and ELF netboot (generally Etherboot) is now fully supported. Images are generated automatically, and the new dhcpd.conf should automatically serve the right image to a client. You may need to install your /opt/ltsp/i386 chroot fresh with ltsp-build-client and update your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf from ltsp-server to benefit from this new support. * NBD swap by default actually works now! (Except it is disabled if the server is running from a Live image in order to conserve memory.) * John Ellson fixed a few bugs to get x86_64 clients installable and working. Still requires a bit manual configuration but it should work now. * Old kernels and images are safely clenaed from the tftpboot directory if they are no longer installed in the client chroots. * (ADVANCED USERS: Most users don't really need this.) NBD root is now supported as an option. Default is still NFS root. Update your dhcpd.conf to the latest version from ltsp-server. It contains example syntax to switch your clients from NFS root to NBD root. ltsp-update-image will generate a NBD root image from /opt/ltsp/i386 and drop it into /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img. Note: This requires the patched mkinitrd also in the k12linux-temporary repo to be installed in the client chroot. This will go into Fedora 10 and Fedora 9 updates in a few weeks. I really need to write documentation for this on the Wiki. * (ADVANCED USERS: Tech preview status) Working Local Apps support, requires openssh-server-5.1 on the ltsp-server side, available in Fedora updates-testing. I will write up some docs for this on the Wiki soon. I tested all this pretty vigorously, but please let me know if you run into any problems. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Aug 25 04:04:05 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:04:05 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server, Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <932609800808241438w76970271x58f67b4aa36ed253@mail.gmail.com> References: <489E8910.70900@redhat.com> <932609800808241438w76970271x58f67b4aa36ed253@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B22F35.9080704@redhat.com> Jay Pfaffman wrote: > I think it works (the only client I have to test with seems to have an > unsupported network card), though it wasn't smart enough to save my > Ubuntu boot info, but I suppose I should have known better. What do you mean by "save my Ubuntu boot info"? > > The instructions for configuring the network work, though for some of > our target audience > > " As root, edit /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ethX. " > > won't mean anything. I was also unclear why it was preferable to > create a new device rather than just disable the old one. An old one actually existed prior to adding it in system-config-network? I checked earlier when I wrote that README and it didn't seem to exist yet (there were no ifcfg-ethX files). In any case what we really need is a simple GUI chooser that allows picking an interface to attach to the ltspbr0 bridge. I talked with Red Hat's DHCP maintainer, and he gave some suggestions of how to write a DHCP detector so the chooser could refuse to attach to an interface if it detected a DHCP server already on that network. Unfortunately the work required to write all this may be too much for me. I am very slow at writiting GUI interfaces and I've never programmed for low-level network protocols before. Even without a GUI chooser, isn't all these steps significantly easier than all other LTSP distributions? You cannot escape the difficult and potentially *dangerous* step of network setup. At least with Fedora Live that is the ONLY step. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Mon Aug 25 13:12:14 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:12:14 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fans - quiet vs. failure? In-Reply-To: <145260.19375.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <145260.19375.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48B2AFAE.7090305@biochemfluidics.com> I only have about half a year experience w/ fanless clients, but I don't see how they could overheat. I'm currently using an LTSP Term 1000 and some SYM1112 units and they only use about 6 watts of power. It seems to me that they just don't make enough heat for ventilation to ever be a problem. -Rob Chuck Kollars wrote: > Does anybody have a couple years experience with fanless clients? > > There's a clear advantage in the much lower noise level. > > But I suspect the other side of the tradeoff is a very high cost in increased failure rate. > > I'm old enough to remember when demotivated users caused hardware failures simply by putting a piece of paper over vent holes - I suspect students would accidentally cover vent holes frequently. The last time I stacked up a bunch of Ethernet hubs, all but the bottom one failed within three weeks. And shortly after I rotated a DSL modem so the vent holes were on the sides instead of top and bottom, it failed. > > Am I just worrying about something that's no longer a problem, or are high failure rates and susceptibility to misuse still big issues? > > -Chuck Kollars > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Mon Aug 25 13:14:40 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:14:40 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] anyone here tried likewise open? In-Reply-To: <1219494876.1416.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1219494876.1416.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <48B2B040.2000502@biochemfluidics.com> I've tried it, but I don't use it in production. It worked, and it was fairly easy to set up. I didn't like that users need to log in as DOMAIN\username, although I didn't put much effort into investigating configuration options that may avoid that. -Rob Barry R Cisna wrote: > Hello list, > > Just curious if anyone here has tried Likewise Open for integrating > Samba and Winders AD? Looks like it may be a good tool for us trench > people trying to make Linux and Winders AD play together. If anyone has > any actual seat time driving this I'd be interested in hearing all of > the caveats to it. Looks like the rpm available they have for download > is for 2.4 kernel. :( > > Thanks, > > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From lewis at pcc.com Mon Aug 25 13:27:44 2008 From: lewis at pcc.com (Lewis Holcroft) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:27:44 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Fans - quiet vs. failure? In-Reply-To: <145260.19375.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <145260.19375.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chuck, We have been using fan-less clients for over 5 years. We have had no failures as a result of overheating. We have had a few DOA units. We provided a few of our clients backup units just incase they had a failure. They truth is their Windows based PC's died more frequently and they swapped thin clients into place and never went back. Lewis On Aug 24, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Chuck Kollars wrote: > Does anybody have a couple years experience with fanless clients? > > There's a clear advantage in the much lower noise level. > > But I suspect the other side of the tradeoff is a very high cost in > increased failure rate. > > I'm old enough to remember when demotivated users caused hardware > failures simply by putting a piece of paper over vent holes - I > suspect students would accidentally cover vent holes frequently. The > last time I stacked up a bunch of Ethernet hubs, all but the bottom > one failed within three weeks. And shortly after I rotated a DSL > modem so the vent holes were on the sides instead of top and bottom, > it failed. > > Am I just worrying about something that's no longer a problem, or > are high failure rates and susceptibility to misuse still big issues? > > -Chuck Kollars > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com Mon Aug 25 13:30:21 2008 From: rob.owens at biochemfluidics.com (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:30:21 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <1219161860.7224.408.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <1219161860.7224.408.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> Message-ID: <48B2B3ED.8080409@biochemfluidics.com> David Farning wrote: > Seriously, the question of what can we do to use technology to help kids > learn is still open. > One of the things that specifically concerns LTSP use is the way the software uses RAM. I'm not an expert, but I've heard it mentioned on this list many times that Firefox, for instance, does not share RAM in a multi-user situation as well as other software packages. If a software package uses 50MB of RAM for the first user, it should not (for a good LTSP experience) use another 50MB for the second user. It should use maybe 5MB for the second user, and 5MB for each additional user, while "sharing" 45MB of information from the first user. I realize that's not really what you were asking about, but I think it's pretty important if you are targeting LTSP users. -Rob ******************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy version. ******************************************************** From lewis at pcc.com Mon Aug 25 13:38:39 2008 From: lewis at pcc.com (Lewis Holcroft) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:38:39 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> David, We are having this FF3 slowness issue also. We found the workstations that use the vesa driver create much more load that those that use other video drivers. Lewis On Aug 24, 2008, at 4:26 PM, David Hopkins wrote: > Thanks! I'll try Opera with some test users (anything else will get > me 'shot' by teachers). In the meantime, I have query about k12ltsp > repos ... are they down again? yum is failing with a metadata > mismatch, and yum clean metadata or yum clean all isn't correcting it. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > > On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. > wrote: >> A better word: >> Konqueror >> >> It comes with the distro already, is quite a fine browser, and >> works with >> the FF plugins. It is my main Internet browser for that reason. >> >> --TP >> >> Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: >>> >>> in one word : >>> Opera >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53 PM, David Hopkins >> > wrote: >>> >>>> i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and >>> takes less >>>> memory >>> >>> On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As >>> mentioned, >>> I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no >>> plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 >>> system. >>> Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know >>> why, >>> but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some >>> points I'll >>> try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things >>> ready for >>> the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Dave Hopkins >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From lewis at pcc.com Mon Aug 25 13:38:39 2008 From: lewis at pcc.com (Lewis Holcroft) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:38:39 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> David, We are having this FF3 slowness issue also. We found the workstations that use the vesa driver create much more load that those that use other video drivers. Lewis On Aug 24, 2008, at 4:26 PM, David Hopkins wrote: > Thanks! I'll try Opera with some test users (anything else will get > me 'shot' by teachers). In the meantime, I have query about k12ltsp > repos ... are they down again? yum is failing with a metadata > mismatch, and yum clean metadata or yum clean all isn't correcting it. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > > On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. > wrote: >> A better word: >> Konqueror >> >> It comes with the distro already, is quite a fine browser, and >> works with >> the FF plugins. It is my main Internet browser for that reason. >> >> --TP >> >> Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: >>> >>> in one word : >>> Opera >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53 PM, David Hopkins >> > wrote: >>> >>>> i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and >>> takes less >>>> memory >>> >>> On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As >>> mentioned, >>> I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no >>> plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 >>> system. >>> Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know >>> why, >>> but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some >>> points I'll >>> try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things >>> ready for >>> the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Dave Hopkins >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From ernie_hudson at snowlineschools.com Mon Aug 25 13:55:23 2008 From: ernie_hudson at snowlineschools.com (Ernie Hudson) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:55:23 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] anyone here tried likewise open? In-Reply-To: <1219494876.1416.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1219494876.1416.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I am currently using it on a k125el server, have tried it with ubuntu and with fc9 with ltsp. It is working very well and has eliminated the need for the teachers in the INTECH lab (required course) to have to enter any users.After all the students have logged in and the home folders have been created all you need to do is run a simple script on the directory to change the permissions so the savvy students can not copy and submit another students work as their own. Ernie Hudson -----Original Message----- From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Barry R Cisna Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 5:35 AM To: K12LTSP Subject: [K12OSN] anyone here tried likewise open? Hello list, Just curious if anyone here has tried Likewise Open for integrating Samba and Winders AD? Looks like it may be a good tool for us trench people trying to make Linux and Winders AD play together. If anyone has any actual seat time driving this I'd be interested in hearing all of the caveats to it. Looks like the rpm available they have for download is for 2.4 kernel. :( Thanks, Barry Cisna _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From microman at cmosnetworks.com Mon Aug 25 15:29:32 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:29:32 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> Message-ID: <48B2CFDC.7030308@cmosnetworks.com> Tell me, folks: since David's looking at changing browsers *anyway* and thus changing the "look and feel" substantially *anyway*, what's bad about using Konqueror? It already comes with K12LTSP! Works great with shared memory/libraries, too. --TP Lewis Holcroft wrote: > David, > > We are having this FF3 slowness issue also. > > We found the workstations that use the vesa driver create much more > load that those that use other video drivers. > > Lewis > > On Aug 24, 2008, at 4:26 PM, David Hopkins wrote: > >> Thanks! I'll try Opera with some test users (anything else will get >> me 'shot' by teachers). In the meantime, I have query about k12ltsp >> repos ... are they down again? yum is failing with a metadata >> mismatch, and yum clean metadata or yum clean all isn't correcting it. >> >> Sincerely, >> Dave Hopkins >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. >> wrote: >>> A better word: >>> Konqueror >>> >>> It comes with the distro already, is quite a fine browser, and works >>> with >>> the FF plugins. It is my main Internet browser for that reason. >>> >>> --TP >>> >>> Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: >>>> >>>> in one word : >>>> Opera >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53 PM, David Hopkins >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and >>>> takes less >>>>> memory >>>> >>>> On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As >>>> mentioned, >>>> I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no >>>> plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 >>>> system. >>>> Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know why, >>>> but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some points >>>> I'll >>>> try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things >>>> ready for >>>> the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Dave Hopkins >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 15:42:24 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:42:24 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> Message-ID: Lewis, Thanks, another clue to the puzzle. I use the mini-itx boards which were based on the VIA Epia 533 Eden. This uses the Vesa driver it seems. And attempts to force it use something else have not been successful. But .. all these little pieces are useful. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Lewis Holcroft wrote: > David, > > We are having this FF3 slowness issue also. > > We found the workstations that use the vesa driver create much more load > that those that use other video drivers. > > Lewis > > On Aug 24, 2008, at 4:26 PM, David Hopkins wrote: > >> Thanks! I'll try Opera with some test users (anything else will get >> me 'shot' by teachers). In the meantime, I have query about k12ltsp >> repos ... are they down again? yum is failing with a metadata >> mismatch, and yum clean metadata or yum clean all isn't correcting it. >> >> Sincerely, >> Dave Hopkins >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. >> wrote: >>> >>> A better word: >>> Konqueror >>> >>> It comes with the distro already, is quite a fine browser, and works with >>> the FF plugins. It is my main Internet browser for that reason. >>> >>> --TP >>> >>> Nadav Kavalerchik wrote: >>>> >>>> in one word : >>>> Opera >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53 PM, David Hopkins >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> i tested firefox 3 and it is almos 3 times faster then v2 and >>>> >>>> takes less >>>>> >>>>> memory >>>> >>>> On my EL5 systems, this has not been the case at all :( As mentioned, >>>> I tested the load that launching each creates on the system (no >>>> plugins and with plugins) and FF3 just crushes my K12LTSP EL5 system. >>>> Doesn't matter if it is a 32bit or 64bit system. I don't know why, >>>> but v2 performs much much better than v3. Perhaps at some points I'll >>>> try and dig deeper, but right now I just have to have things ready for >>>> the school which starts tomorrow morning at 7:30. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Dave Hopkins >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 15:48:14 2008 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:48:14 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <48B2CFDC.7030308@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <48B2CFDC.7030308@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Tell me, folks: since David's looking at changing browsers *anyway* and > thus changing the "look and feel" substantially *anyway*, what's bad about > using Konqueror? It already comes with K12LTSP! Works great with shared > memory/libraries, too. > Personally, there isn't anything wrong. I just have to make sure that the teachers 'buy' into it and it works with the State 'browser-based' (as opposed to web-based) programs. This environment is rather different from anything else they see. The more comfortable they are, the less pushback. Today was the first day and we had some serious issues with a conflict between the state SIS which we are required to use and FF. It literally brought my new 2 Dual quad-core boxes down to zero responsiveness resulting in 50 upset teachers. By getting the teachers to use our Windows TS which we have specifically for compatibility with State programs that in essence require IE, things are back to normal, but it glitches like this that just raise havoc with acceptance. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From william at fragakis.com Mon Aug 25 17:24:59 2008 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:24:59 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <20080825160251.06C6B61B116@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20080825160251.06C6B61B116@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219685099.5831.105.camel@server.ltsp> We had some similar boards that required the via driver be specified in lts.conf as the auto option would not correctly select it. You may want to give it a shot. Regards, William On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 12:02 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:42:24 -0400 > From: "David Hopkins" > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Lewis, > > Thanks, another clue to the puzzle. I use the mini-itx boards which > were based on the VIA Epia 533 Eden. This uses the Vesa driver it > seems. And attempts to force it use something else have not been > successful. But .. all these little pieces are useful. > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Lewis Holcroft wrote: > > David, > > > > We are having this FF3 slowness issue also. > > > > We found the workstations that use the vesa driver create much more > load > > that those that use other video drivers. > > From ascensiontech at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 17:13:41 2008 From: ascensiontech at gmail.com (Peter Hartmann) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:13:41 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sugar desktop. In-Reply-To: <48B2B3ED.8080409@biochemfluidics.com> References: <1219124109.7224.359.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <492031F3-98AC-4599-9640-1F133640D9F0@breun.nl> <1219129268.7224.376.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <1219161860.7224.408.camel@dfarning.desktop.org> <48B2B3ED.8080409@biochemfluidics.com> Message-ID: <9bd317560808251013q7fbdacf4r45073b36fc2f20@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone here successfully built sugar on Centos 5 with the instructions for FC6? Having some trouble getting it to start and thought I'd sound you out. Peter On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Rob Owens wrote: > David Farning wrote: > >> Seriously, the question of what can we do to use technology to help kids >> learn is still open. >> > > One of the things that specifically concerns LTSP use is the way the > software uses RAM. I'm not an expert, but I've heard it mentioned on > this list many times that Firefox, for instance, does not share RAM in a > multi-user situation as well as other software packages. If a software > package uses 50MB of RAM for the first user, it should not (for a good > LTSP experience) use another 50MB for the second user. It should use > maybe 5MB for the second user, and 5MB for each additional user, while > "sharing" 45MB of information from the first user. > > I realize that's not really what you were asking about, but I think it's > pretty important if you are targeting LTSP users. > > -Rob > ******************************************************** > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, > copying, distribution, or other dissemination or use of this transmission in > error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this e-mail. > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as > information could be intercepted, corrupted lost, destroyed, arrive late or > incomplete, or contain viruses. > The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions > in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail > transmission. If verification is required please request a hard copy > version. > > ******************************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From nils at breun.nl Mon Aug 25 19:54:09 2008 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:54:09 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <48B2CFDC.7030308@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <1219422935.5831.26.camel@server.ltsp> <1219498739.15657.12.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <48B2CFDC.7030308@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <73C727F7-7A8B-4466-8426-EE0C6C3496AE@breun.nl> Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Tell me, folks: since David's looking at changing browsers *anyway* > and thus changing the "look and feel" substantially *anyway*, what's > bad about using Konqueror? It already comes with K12LTSP! Works > great with shared memory/libraries, too. Both Konqueror and Opera have pros and cons. Konqueror means KDE dependencies and I personally don't like KDE programs in a Gnome desktop. Konqueror is open source though and can be installed through yum. Opera is only free as in beer and you'll need to download an RPM. I'd say any suggestions are great and David can see what he likes and what works for him. Nils Breunese. From einfeldt at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:48:23 2008 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:48:23 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> Message-ID: <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> hi On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 6:38 AM, Lewis Holcroft wrote: > David, > > We are having this FF3 slowness issue also. > We are also having this same problem in San Francisco, California, in a public middle school running ff 3 on Hardy Ubuntu with Hardy Xubuntu clients. Our lab is run entirely by volunteers, as the school has no money for a tech guy for kids' needs, only teacher needs! (This is a _very_ poor inner city school in SF). Here are the Firefox (ff) issues: ff seemed to hand for about 90 seconds or so. The kids logged in. Clicked on ff. Nothing happened. The ff start-up ball spun around, indicating that it was starting, then it just failed. We made sure to tell the kids to click once and once only, and generally they complied with that request. Ff hung for about 90 seconds. I then asked the kids to click one more time on ff. Ff then hung for another 15 seconds or so, and then produced an error message saying that "Another copy of Ff is currently running. Please quit that copy of Ff first by clicking Okay when you are ready" or something similar. I had the kids click Okay, which almost always caused Ff to finally appear after about 10 seconds. So the total time to launch ff was about 90 seconds + 15 second + 10 seconds = about 1 minute 55 seconds or so. It is worth noting this problem occurs _only_ when the kids are all launching ff simultaneously. It does _not_ occur when I am sitting alone in the lab, as I am now. My copy of ff launched quickly. Here's what our local guru volunteer just told me. (I am a level one volunteer support guy who actually practices law for a living). I had suggested a reboot, but here's what he said: "No, a reboot won't fix it. It's probably the local web server that's serving up the automatic proxy config, the proxy server or the DNS server. One or more of them are getting overwhelmed by 31 simultaneous connection attempts. "We can bump the number of threads on the proxy server so that it can handle more concurrent requests. We can set the Firefox proxy settings in the local config files so that Firefox doesn't need to hit the web server when they start. And we can install local DNS caches on each machine so that the DNS server load is lightened a bit." Maybe this will help someone else here? c u -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:50:11 2008 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:50:11 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b5781040808251550m50814eefv6902aaa5eefcccf4@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 6:38 AM, Lewis Holcroft wrote: > >> David, >> >> We are having this FF3 slowness issue also. >> > > We are also having this same problem in San Francisco, California, in a > public middle school running ff 3 on Hardy Ubuntu with Hardy Xubuntu > clients. > Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention: we are using LDAP, not LTSP, so our clients are hybrid clients, not thin clients, nor are they standalone workstations. -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:51:51 2008 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:51:51 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <4b5781040808251550m50814eefv6902aaa5eefcccf4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> <4b5781040808251550m50814eefv6902aaa5eefcccf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b5781040808251551u26c3b440v5fe58cfdb5242d46@mail.gmail.com> hi And one other thing I forgot to mention: Ff is lightning fast for us once it launches. It is only _launching_ where we experience slowness. Sorry for the multiple posts. -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mel at melwade.com Mon Aug 25 23:35:15 2008 From: mel at melwade.com (Mel Wade) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:35:15 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Login Testing Message-ID: <43080f460808251635v3c8e6033n6fd70994df190d8d@mail.gmail.com> I'm using AD for authentication. I've read somewhere of a command you can run from the console to login that tests the login as shows the process. Can someone refresh my memory. -- Mel Wade "The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner http://www.melwade.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lesmikesell at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 02:07:41 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:07:41 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B3656D.2080506@gmail.com> Christian Einfeldt wrote: > > "No, a reboot won't fix it. It's probably the local web server that's > serving up the automatic proxy config, the proxy server or the DNS > server. One or more of them are getting overwhelmed by 31 simultaneous > connection attempts. > > "We can bump the number of threads on the proxy server so that it can > handle more concurrent requests. We can set the Firefox proxy settings > in the local config files so that Firefox doesn't need to hit the web > server when they start. And we can install local DNS caches on each > machine so that the DNS server load is lightened a bit." > > Maybe this will help someone else here? None of that sounds likely to be a bottleneck to me. 31 is not a large number for typical DNS/web/proxy servers to handle concurrently. If these aren't thin LTSP clients, does each have its own local copy of the executable? If not, is it being loaded via NFS over a link they all share? -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 02:55:32 2008 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:55:32 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <48B3656D.2080506@gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> <48B3656D.2080506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b5781040808251955j3dc790aaq6f7edd2acf41fd9@mail.gmail.com> hi On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: > > If these aren't thin LTSP clients, does each have its own local copy of the > executable? Yes. But they are pulling their config files from the server. -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ascensiontech at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 03:23:47 2008 From: ascensiontech at gmail.com (Peter Hartmann) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:23:47 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] esddsp audacity Message-ID: <9bd317560808252023v63a38620tc27d475c6eff7a96@mail.gmail.com> Hey Nadav, Did you ever solve your problem of audacity playing at half speed through esd? I noticed your post on the audacity forum. Thanks, Peter From lesmikesell at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 03:53:02 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:53:02 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <4b5781040808251955j3dc790aaq6f7edd2acf41fd9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> <48B3656D.2080506@gmail.com> <4b5781040808251955j3dc790aaq6f7edd2acf41fd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B37E1E.3030409@gmail.com> Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: > >> If these aren't thin LTSP clients, does each have its own local copy of the >> executable? > > > Yes. But they are pulling their config files from the server. But 31 is not a big number of files for a web server to deliver. If that is the problem the server must be seriously crippled or you have network problems between it and the clients. -- Les Mikesell lesmiksell at gmail.com From rmiller at seminole.k12.ga.us Tue Aug 26 14:52:58 2008 From: rmiller at seminole.k12.ga.us (Ronnie Miller) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [K12OSN] CUPS stopping after printing one job Message-ID: <51336.10.10.100.1.1219762378.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> I'm having an issue with cups printing in my k12ltsp labs. Both are running Centos 5 with all updates applied. My problem is that when a class is printing to the lab printer, the first job or two prints and the rest never get printed. It's as if the print service hangs up on the second or third job. Usually, I have to clear previous jobs using http://localhost:631 and the CUPS admin screens to get the printer working for them to print in the first place. Both are set up as IP printers. Is there something simple I'm missing? Any help is always appreciated. -- Ronnie Miller Technology Specialist Seminole County Schools 800 S. Woolfork Ave. Donalsonville, GA 39845 229.524.5235 Ext. 227 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From sonjag at comcast.net Tue Aug 26 15:07:51 2008 From: sonjag at comcast.net (sonjag at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:07:51 +0000 Subject: [K12OSN] CUPS stopping after printing one job Message-ID: <082620081507.8849.48B41C46000F20B1000022912200760180090E0602019C@comcast.net> Hi Ronnie-- I had similar problems with a different set up, but might apply. The issue for me turned out to be fonts that the printer didn't like. If a file stopped the printer once it would stop it again, but if you change the font (make sure you select all to make sure you change all of the characters) to a known good (like Times, for me), it would usually stop offending the printer. And then you can delete the font sets that don't work well with your printers. HTH-- Sonja -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Ronnie Miller" > I'm having an issue with cups printing in my k12ltsp labs. Both are > running Centos 5 with all updates applied. My problem is that when a class > is printing to the lab printer, the first job or two prints and the rest > never get printed. It's as if the print service hangs up on the second or > third job. > > Usually, I have to clear previous jobs using http://localhost:631 and the > CUPS admin screens to get the printer working for them to print in the > first place. Both are set up as IP printers. Is there something simple I'm > missing? > > Any help is always appreciated. > > > -- > Ronnie Miller > Technology Specialist > Seminole County Schools > 800 S. Woolfork Ave. > Donalsonville, GA 39845 > 229.524.5235 Ext. 227 > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From ascensiontech at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 15:34:30 2008 From: ascensiontech at gmail.com (Peter Hartmann) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:34:30 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] gcompris guesses wrong screen res Message-ID: <9bd317560808260834u3e070294s8806765b1931ca63@mail.gmail.com> In fullscreen mode gcompris chooses a resolution that is larger than the monitor (CRT) is displaying. The viewing area changes as you move the mouse. Is there a fix for this or do I need windowed mode? Thanks, Peter From steve.hargadon at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 20:02:24 2008 From: steve.hargadon at gmail.com (Steve Hargadon) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:02:24 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K-12 Open Minds Conference Sign-up Reminder (Open Source Software, Open Content, & Open Technologies) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The K12 Open Minds Conference, Sept. 25 - 27, in Indianapolis, Indiana is approaching fast! This is just a quick reminder to encourage those who interested in the conference to sign up and to make travel arrangements quickly. If you do so, you can take advantage of some great airfare and hotel rates currently available: flights from California (and elsewhere) to Indianapolis are currently as low as $195 round trip (Orbitz.com), and if you make reservations at the downtown Marriott from the K-12 Open Minds website (www.k12openminds.org) before September 2, rooms are only $97/night (over 50% off). K-12 Open Minds is one of the few conferences devoted to Free and Open Source Software in K-12 education--see http://www.k12openminds.org for more details. Accepted concurrent sessions are going to start being posted on the website this week (we are holding a few provisional sessions open for those who weren't able to meet the submission deadline). As well, there will be a combined .org and student-showcase pavilion. Interested parties should contact me for details. The keynote speakers for the conference are: - Donna Benjamin - Executive Director of Creative Contingencies and board member of Open Source Industry Australia; - Alex Inman -- Director of Technology at Whitfield School, St. Louis, MO - an Essential School using Open Source; - Chris Lehman -- Principal of the Science Leadership Academy in Philadelphia, PA; - Dr. David Thornburg - Director of Global Operations for the Thornburg Center and author of several books including, When the Best is Free; - Bradley C. Wheeler, Ph.D. -- Vice President for Information Technology & CIO and Professor of Information Systems, IU Kelley School of Business K-12 Open Minds is an unparalleled opportunity to talk with teachers, administrators and technology staff from around the U.S. and the world who are discovering the benefits of Open-Source Software. In Indiana alone, over 150,000 students use Open-Source Software every day. Not only does Open-Source Software save money, it allows schools to extend essential educational software to students' homes and into after-school programs, providing extended learning opportunities at no cost. We expect more than 600 attendees, from the US, Europe, Asia and North and South America. Dozens of sessions that address teaching and learning, leadership and technical issues related to open technologies make this conference a "must attend" event. We hope that you will pass this email along to your colleagues and post it to any appropriate email lists. If you have any questions please contact me (see below), Brant Patten at 802.785.3160 / bmp at ncose.org, or Mike Huffman at 317.232.6672 / mhuffman at doe.in.gov Steve Steve Hargadon K-12 Open Minds Organizing Committee steve at hargadon.com 916-899-1400 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Tue Aug 26 21:58:55 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:58:55 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1219787935.13830.4.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 15:48 -0700, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > "We can bump the number of threads on the proxy server so that it can > handle more concurrent requests. We can set the Firefox proxy settings > in the local config files so that Firefox doesn't need to hit the web > server when they start. And we can install local DNS caches on each > machine so that the DNS server load is lightened a bit." > > Maybe this will help someone else here? > > c u It also helps if the server can launch an instance of FF when it starts up. Set up a vncserver account and have that account autostart firefox to a internal page. This will preload the binary and libs and make the server feel much faster. It is possible that the slowness is 30 simultaneous launches tha all see they are solo-instances. FF supports shared libs and binary. But there must be one fully running to work. > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Tue Aug 26 22:01:16 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:01:16 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] CUPS stopping after printing one job In-Reply-To: <51336.10.10.100.1.1219762378.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> References: <51336.10.10.100.1.1219762378.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> Message-ID: <1219788076.13830.7.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> If a student is printing a web page with flash and the error handling is set to halt printer instead of abort job.... I hate flash. horrid, closed-source garbage. grr. On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 10:52 -0400, Ronnie Miller wrote: > I'm having an issue with cups printing in my k12ltsp labs. Both are > running Centos 5 with all updates applied. My problem is that when a class > is printing to the lab printer, the first job or two prints and the rest > never get printed. It's as if the print service hangs up on the second or > third job. > > Usually, I have to clear previous jobs using http://localhost:631 and the > CUPS admin screens to get the printer working for them to print in the > first place. Both are set up as IP printers. Is there something simple I'm > missing? > > Any help is always appreciated. > > > -- > Ronnie Miller > Technology Specialist > Seminole County Schools > 800 S. Woolfork Ave. > Donalsonville, GA 39845 > 229.524.5235 Ext. 227 > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From toddobryan at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 02:29:58 2008 From: toddobryan at gmail.com (Todd O'Bryan) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:29:58 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] How to handle groups with multiple servers Message-ID: <904774730808261929y2be34de2hca79ee50f8b89758@mail.gmail.com> Here's my setup: thirty clients two app servers a file server for /home that also has LDAP/Kerberos login info I'm using Ubuntu 8.04 with the LTSP packages, so to use local devices, students have to be part of the fuse and audio groups. Unfortunately, the gids of those groups are different on the different servers. Should I put those two groups in LDAP as posixGroups? If so, what gid should I use, and what should I do with the local versions of those groups? If anybody has a HOWTO for this kind of situation, I'd really appreciate a link. Todd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Wed Aug 27 04:46:29 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:46:29 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] CUPS stopping after printing one job In-Reply-To: <51336.10.10.100.1.1219762378.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> References: <51336.10.10.100.1.1219762378.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> Message-ID: <48B4DC25.3040802@cmosnetworks.com> Ronnie Miller wrote: > I'm having an issue with cups printing in my k12ltsp labs. Both are > running Centos 5 with all updates applied. My problem is that when a class > is printing to the lab printer, the first job or two prints and the rest > never get printed. It's as if the print service hangs up on the second or > third job. > > Usually, I have to clear previous jobs using http://localhost:631 and the > CUPS admin screens to get the printer working for them to print in the > first place. Both are set up as IP printers. Is there something simple I'm > missing? > > Any help is always appreciated. > My Dad ran into a similar issue just today. Here's how I fixed it for him. I did an "lpq -P MyCaseSensitivePrinterName" at a terminal window. I saw a bunch of jobs, preceded by this message: printer is not ready If you see that, then take a look at the /etc/cups/printers.conf and look for the following: State Stopped StateMessage /usr/lib/cups/backend/lpd failed What you do to fix this is as follows. Edit /etc/cups/printers.conf, delete both of those lines, and replace them with this: State idle and restart the CUPS daemon (as root) with "/sbin/service cups restart". That ought to get your jobs printing again. But this could happen again and again, you say! Will I have to do this every time?? The answer is no, you won't. What's happening here is that, for whatever reason, CUPS is timing out in talking to the printer and thus administratively downs the printer. What it *should* do, ideally, is simply try again (maybe the printer cable got kicked, or it was powered off, or whatever). And we can, indeed, make that happen! Again, in /etc/cups/printers.conf, replace the following line ErrorPolicy stop-printer with this ErrorPolicy retry-job and things should be just peachy from here out. Remember to restart the CUPS daemon after this change as well so that it takes effect. --TP From microman at cmosnetworks.com Wed Aug 27 04:54:35 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:54:35 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] CUPS stopping after printing one job In-Reply-To: <48B4DC25.3040802@cmosnetworks.com> References: <51336.10.10.100.1.1219762378.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> <48B4DC25.3040802@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48B4DE0B.8020900@cmosnetworks.com> Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Ronnie Miller wrote: >> I'm having an issue with cups printing in my k12ltsp labs. Both are >> running Centos 5 with all updates applied. My problem is that when a >> class >> is printing to the lab printer, the first job or two prints and the rest >> never get printed. It's as if the print service hangs up on the >> second or >> third job. >> >> Usually, I have to clear previous jobs using http://localhost:631 and >> the >> CUPS admin screens to get the printer working for them to print in the >> first place. Both are set up as IP printers. Is there something >> simple I'm >> missing? >> >> Any help is always appreciated. >> > > My Dad ran into a similar issue just today. Here's how I fixed it for > him. > > I did an "lpq -P MyCaseSensitivePrinterName" at a terminal window. I > saw a bunch of jobs, preceded by this message: > > printer is not ready > > > If you see that, then take a look at the /etc/cups/printers.conf and > look for the following: > > > State Stopped > StateMessage /usr/lib/cups/backend/lpd failed > > > What you do to fix this is as follows. > > Edit /etc/cups/printers.conf, delete both of those lines, and replace > them with this: > > State idle > > and restart the CUPS daemon (as root) with "/sbin/service cups > restart". That ought to get your jobs printing again. > > But this could happen again and again, you say! Will I have to do > this every time?? The answer is no, you won't. What's happening here > is that, for whatever reason, CUPS is timing out in talking to the > printer and thus administratively downs the printer. What it *should* > do, ideally, is simply try again (maybe the printer cable got kicked, > or it was powered off, or whatever). And we can, indeed, make that > happen! > > Again, in /etc/cups/printers.conf, replace the following line > > ErrorPolicy stop-printer > > with this > > ErrorPolicy retry-job > > and things should be just peachy from here out. Remember to restart > the CUPS daemon after this change as well so that it takes effect. > > --TP Slight edit: The line should be "State Idle" instead of "State idle" above. This may indeed be case sensitive. Hey, I'm a little tired. :-) --TP From robark at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 06:40:37 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:40:37 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Fl_TeacherTool 0.62 released Message-ID: This is a bug fix release. If you previously installed 0.60, please update to 0.62. To update from 0.60 you don't need to go through all the install steps again. Simply re-compile and install with make make install http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/download.html Enjoy! -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From nadavkav at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 06:57:22 2008 From: nadavkav at gmail.com (Nadav Kavalerchik) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:57:22 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Sky high load average with FF and CentOS? In-Reply-To: <1219787935.13830.4.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <20080822160036.28F5361A21E@hormel.redhat.com> <4219988b0808241236kc1011e2ka33f64b35de41afb@mail.gmail.com> <4219988b0808241301i41f3b954qc12e7efff25dc1d0@mail.gmail.com> <48B1BF86.5020204@cmosnetworks.com> <1B09B259-02BB-4FC2-92AE-F510B0E1D4A9@pcc.com> <4b5781040808251548q5e149f3bx5ba593fce0a36bfd@mail.gmail.com> <1219787935.13830.4.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <4219988b0808262357t4787ba03pc7f3281e887f9f2e@mail.gmail.com> something is wrong with your server's setup. we have 60-70 terminals - PIII 233GHz + 64MB RAM almost simultaneously lunch FF3 and we have a Squid proxy (for the entire school, not just for the linux terminals) on the ltsp server + some web applications (mediawiki, moodle, drupal) running on the server + Samba file shares for 150 Machines (at least). it is an old fc6 + ltsp 4.2 on quad core 1.8GHz + 4GB RAM. we point FF to use the server's proxy. i have noticed, on some computer labs (in other schools), that firefox takes it's time when it can not find a proxy (even when it is set to automatic detect proxy) i filed a bug report about it. (a while ago, when it was in beta) and i remember it was fixed. now, we also use konqueror and opera because we are using KDE desktops and it is much faster to response when users click it. (and opera is extremely fast surfing the web !) unfortunately, we have severe issues with hebrew content web sites that are not coded according to standards which forces us to use FF + grease-monky extension + many fixes we write on own to make these sites accessible. (Opera supports grease monky code but Konqueror do not) On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:58 AM, James P. Kinney III < jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote: > On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 15:48 -0700, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > > > "We can bump the number of threads on the proxy server so that it can > > handle more concurrent requests. We can set the Firefox proxy settings > > in the local config files so that Firefox doesn't need to hit the web > > server when they start. And we can install local DNS caches on each > > machine so that the DNS server load is lightened a bit." > > > > Maybe this will help someone else here? > > > > c u > > It also helps if the server can launch an instance of FF when it starts > up. Set up a vncserver account and have that account autostart firefox > to a internal page. This will preload the binary and libs and make the > server feel much faster. > > It is possible that the slowness is 30 simultaneous launches tha all see > they are solo-instances. FF supports shared libs and binary. But there > must be one fully running to work. > > > -- > James P. Kinney III > CEO & Director of Engineering > Local Net Solutions,LLC > http://www.localnetsolutions.com > > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) > > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 20:44:50 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:44:50 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux branding ideas Message-ID: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> Hey folks, We may soon have ownership of k12linux.* domains. We need to decide how we will use the K12Linux brand name. In the tradition of K12LTSP, perhaps we should call the installable media spins K12Linux. K12Linux Live Server F9 Beta 2 K12Linux Live Server F9 K12Linux Live Server F10 K12linux Live Server EL6 I suspect LTSP-4.2 based K12LTSP media will survive until EL6 makes a fully functional LTSP5 on long-term supportable EL-base possible. Thereafter K12LTSP will be considered legacy. Folks could continue to use K12LTSP EL5 if they have not yet upgraded to K12Linux, or if their clients are just too old/slow to work with LTSP5. Any better ideas? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From lesmikesell at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 21:15:45 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:15:45 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux branding ideas In-Reply-To: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> References: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48B5C401.3060002@gmail.com> Warren Togami wrote: > Hey folks, > > We may soon have ownership of k12linux.* domains. We need to decide how > we will use the K12Linux brand name. > > In the tradition of K12LTSP, perhaps we should call the installable > media spins K12Linux. > > K12Linux Live Server F9 Beta 2 > K12Linux Live Server F9 > K12Linux Live Server F10 > K12linux Live Server EL6 > > I suspect LTSP-4.2 based K12LTSP media will survive until EL6 makes a > fully functional LTSP5 on long-term supportable EL-base possible. > Thereafter K12LTSP will be considered legacy. Folks could continue to > use K12LTSP EL5 if they have not yet upgraded to K12Linux, or if their > clients are just too old/slow to work with LTSP5. > > Any better ideas? Is this domain going to be capable of and willing to host something with push-button icons to install flash, realplayer, java, etc.? -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 21:50:54 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:50:54 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux branding ideas In-Reply-To: <48B5C401.3060002@gmail.com> References: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> <48B5C401.3060002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B5CC3E.9020506@redhat.com> Les Mikesell wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: >> Hey folks, >> >> We may soon have ownership of k12linux.* domains. We need to decide >> how we will use the K12Linux brand name. >> >> In the tradition of K12LTSP, perhaps we should call the installable >> media spins K12Linux. >> >> K12Linux Live Server F9 Beta 2 >> K12Linux Live Server F9 >> K12Linux Live Server F10 >> K12linux Live Server EL6 >> >> I suspect LTSP-4.2 based K12LTSP media will survive until EL6 makes a >> fully functional LTSP5 on long-term supportable EL-base possible. >> Thereafter K12LTSP will be considered legacy. Folks could continue to >> use K12LTSP EL5 if they have not yet upgraded to K12Linux, or if their >> clients are just too old/slow to work with LTSP5. >> >> Any better ideas? > > Is this domain going to be capable of and willing to host something with > push-button icons to install flash, realplayer, java, etc.? > I don't know. That would require: 1) More than just me working on stuff. I can't be solely responsible for fixing bugs and also working on content. 2) Need to get it cleared by legal. It is possible though. Warren From lesmikesell at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 22:42:43 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:42:43 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux branding ideas In-Reply-To: <48B5CC3E.9020506@redhat.com> References: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> <48B5C401.3060002@gmail.com> <48B5CC3E.9020506@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48B5D863.2000908@gmail.com> Warren Togami wrote: > >> Is this domain going to be capable of and willing to host something >> with push-button icons to install flash, realplayer, java, etc.? >> > > I don't know. That would require: > > 1) More than just me working on stuff. I can't be solely responsible > for fixing bugs and also working on content. > > 2) Need to get it cleared by legal. It is possible though. I'm just raising the question because it was very nice to have those features in the k12ltsp spins and if they can't be included it might make more sense to just have some kind of meta-package for yum to install on top of a base fedora/centos because there will be some extra setup anyway. Some of the packages in that 'install additional software' folder are pulled from 3rd party repositories, some are hosted or mirrored on the k12ltsp site. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From peter at scheie.homedns.org Thu Aug 28 16:37:43 2008 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:37:43 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux branding ideas In-Reply-To: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> References: <48B5BCC2.9080409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48B6D457.6050000@scheie.homedns.org> Will there be any non-Live Server versions? IOW, is the 'Live Server' part of the name superfluous, since that's the only form it comes in? Or do you envision an 'alternative install' version? OTOH, the fact that it comes almost-ready-to-run out of the box via Live IS a big flashy selling point in my mind, so from a marketing standpoint, it may make sense to have that in there. Peter Warren Togami wrote: > Hey folks, > > We may soon have ownership of k12linux.* domains. We need to decide how > we will use the K12Linux brand name. > > In the tradition of K12LTSP, perhaps we should call the installable > media spins K12Linux. > > K12Linux Live Server F9 Beta 2 > K12Linux Live Server F9 > K12Linux Live Server F10 > K12linux Live Server EL6 > > I suspect LTSP-4.2 based K12LTSP media will survive until EL6 makes a > fully functional LTSP5 on long-term supportable EL-base possible. > Thereafter K12LTSP will be considered legacy. Folks could continue to > use K12LTSP EL5 if they have not yet upgraded to K12Linux, or if their > clients are just too old/slow to work with LTSP5. > > Any better ideas? > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From rmiller at seminole.k12.ga.us Thu Aug 28 19:05:36 2008 From: rmiller at seminole.k12.ga.us (Ronnie Miller) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Re: CUPS stopping after printing one job Message-ID: <55548.10.10.100.1.1219950336.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> I tried this and the response is: "E214LaserPrinter is ready and printing" Same thing when I look at CUPS. The problem is that a job will hang for no apparent reason and sit there until I eventually clear it. It's a random thing with no rhyme or reason that I can see. I'll admit it - I'm confused. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * From: "Terrell Prude' Jr." * To: "Support list for open source software in schools." * Subject: Re: [K12OSN] CUPS stopping after printing one job * Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:54:35 -0400 Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: Ronnie Miller wrote: I'm having an issue with cups printing in my k12ltsp labs. Both are running Centos 5 with all updates applied. My problem is that when a class is printing to the lab printer, the first job or two prints and the rest never get printed. It's as if the print service hangs up on the second or third job. Usually, I have to clear previous jobs using http://localhost:631 and the CUPS admin screens to get the printer working for them to print in the first place. Both are set up as IP printers. Is there something simple I'm missing? Any help is always appreciated. My Dad ran into a similar issue just today. Here's how I fixed it for him. I did an "lpq -P MyCaseSensitivePrinterName" at a terminal window. I saw a bunch of jobs, preceded by this message: printer is not ready If you see that, then take a look at the /etc/cups/printers.conf and look for the following: State Stopped StateMessage /usr/lib/cups/backend/lpd failed What you do to fix this is as follows. Edit /etc/cups/printers.conf, delete both of those lines, and replace them with this: State idle and restart the CUPS daemon (as root) with "/sbin/service cups restart". That ought to get your jobs printing again. But this could happen again and again, you say! Will I have to do this every time?? The answer is no, you won't. What's happening here is that, for whatever reason, CUPS is timing out in talking to the printer and thus administratively downs the printer. What it *should* do, ideally, is simply try again (maybe the printer cable got kicked, or it was powered off, or whatever). And we can, indeed, make that happen! Again, in /etc/cups/printers.conf, replace the following line ErrorPolicy stop-printer with this ErrorPolicy retry-job and things should be just peachy from here out. Remember to restart the CUPS daemon after this change as well so that it takes effect. --TP Slight edit: The line should be "State Idle" instead of "State idle" above. This may indeed be case sensitive. Hey, I'm a little tired. :-) --TP -- Ronnie Miller Technology Specialist Seminole County Schools 800 S. Woolfork Ave. Donalsonville, GA 39845 229.524.5235 Ext. 227 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From k12ltsp at hermon.net Thu Aug 28 20:53:11 2008 From: k12ltsp at hermon.net (k12ltsp) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:53:11 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] KDM Message-ID: Hi everyone, When we were on FC6, at the Elem. school, we used KDM and configured the KDMRC file so that terminals located in K-4 classrooms would login automatically to accounts made for the particular terminals. Since switching over to CentOS 5, we noticed that editing the KDMRC file (located at a different location) and turning it on via the /etc/sysconfig/desktop file only causes an X on the terminals. (It loads on the server, meaning KDM is in fact installed) Some comments in the list suggest that XDMCP needs to be turned on. I looked at the configuration file and it noted that this is on by default. Nonetheless, I defined this as true, but it doesn't make a difference. Some possible noteworthy information: The KDMRC file doesn't exist at /etc/X11/xdm/kdmrc , and the xdm folder didn't exist under /etc/X11 . I'm not sure if we are missing a package or if the process may have changed to turn on KDM in LTSP? Any help would be appreciated! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Alan Owen Assistant to the Director of Information Services Hermon Information Services/Hermon School Department "Using Technology to Empower All Students to Succeed in a Changing World." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Automatic Notice: Emails of a private nature from this account may not be shared to any third-party. Sharing confidential information from this account may construe a breach of confidence under state law. All messages from this account are written and sent from the State of Maine. From SteveSings at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 10:16:17 2008 From: SteveSings at gmail.com (Stephen Crampton) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:16:17 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm trying to get a thin-client lab up and running. Currently, I have a dual-processor AMD CPU with 4 GB of RAM as my server. The server has a 1 GB Ethernet card. The server is connected to a 1 GB 8-port Ethernet switch. I have 7 clients attached. They have Intel motherboards and are about 1 year old. They have 512 MB of memory. They have 100 Mbps Ethernet cards. Performance is sluggish, which surprises me. When my students are running something very lightweight such as kbruch, the machines run fine, however, if one of them opens up TuxMath or TuxTyping or some other applications, everything slows way down. I noticed that there are parameters that can be tuned in lts.conf. I reduced the screen resolution to 800x600 and the color depth to 8 bits. Does anyone have any suggestions for other parameters that might make my system a little more responsive? Also, I've been reading wiki pages and mailing list entries regarding fattening thin clients. There seem to be two ways of doing it: (1) building a new ltsp system "fati386" or (2) writing scripts that execute particular programs on the client and direct the display to the client's Xwindows server. I've spent a number of hours on both approaches without success. Before I invest a lot more time, could someone recommend one approach or the other? Thanks, Steve > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caldodge at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 13:32:53 2008 From: caldodge at gmail.com (Calvin Dodge) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:32:53 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <824a5f7a0808290632nb9385f5iecd85d11d812ad78@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/29 Stephen Crampton : > I'm trying to get a thin-client lab up and running. > > Currently, I have a dual-processor AMD CPU with 4 GB of RAM as my server. > The server has a 1 GB Ethernet card. > > The server is connected to a 1 GB 8-port Ethernet switch. > > I have 7 clients attached. They have Intel motherboards and are about 1 > year old. They have 512 MB of memory. They have 100 Mbps Ethernet cards. > > Performance is sluggish, which surprises me. When my students are running > something very lightweight such as kbruch, the machines run fine, however, > if one of them opens up TuxMath or TuxTyping or some other applications, > everything slows way down. What brand of NIC is on the server? When everything slows to a crawl, what's the actual network usage (MB/s) at the server? CPU usage at that time? Does "cat /proc/net/dev" show many errors or dropped packets during peak network usage? Calvin From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Aug 29 14:51:33 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:51:33 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B80CF5.8060802@redhat.com> Stephen Crampton wrote: > I'm trying to get a thin-client lab up and running. > You failed to state exactly what type of server software you are running? Warren From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Aug 29 16:04:59 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:04:59 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: CUPS stopping after printing one job In-Reply-To: <55548.10.10.100.1.1219950336.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> References: <55548.10.10.100.1.1219950336.squirrel@mail.seminole.k12.ga.us> Message-ID: <48B81E2B.9010707@cmosnetworks.com> Try it again when that job hangs. --TP Ronnie Miller wrote: > I tried this and the response is: > > "E214LaserPrinter is ready and printing" > > Same thing when I look at CUPS. The problem is that a job will hang for no > apparent reason and sit there until I eventually clear it. It's a random > thing with no rhyme or reason that I can see. > > I'll admit it - I'm confused. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > * From: "Terrell Prude' Jr." > * To: "Support list for open source software in schools." redhat com> > * Subject: Re: [K12OSN] CUPS stopping after printing one job > * Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:54:35 -0400 > > Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > > Ronnie Miller wrote: > > I'm having an issue with cups printing in my k12ltsp labs. Both are > > running Centos 5 with all updates applied. My problem is that when > a class > > is printing to the lab printer, the first job or two prints and > the rest > > never get printed. It's as if the print service hangs up on the > second or > > third job. > > > Usually, I have to clear previous jobs using http://localhost:631 > and the > > CUPS admin screens to get the printer working for them to print in > the > > first place. Both are set up as IP printers. Is there something > simple I'm > > missing? > > Any help is always appreciated. > > My Dad ran into a similar issue just today. Here's how I fixed it for > him. > > I did an "lpq -P MyCaseSensitivePrinterName" at a terminal window. I > saw a bunch of jobs, preceded by this message: > > printer is not ready > > > > If you see that, then take a look at the /etc/cups/printers.conf and > look for the following: > > > State Stopped > StateMessage /usr/lib/cups/backend/lpd failed > > > What you do to fix this is as follows. > > > Edit /etc/cups/printers.conf, delete both of those lines, and replace > them with this: > > State idle > > > and restart the CUPS daemon (as root) with "/sbin/service cups > restart". That ought to get your jobs printing again. > > But this could happen again and again, you say! Will I have to do this > every time?? The answer is no, you won't. What's happening here is > that, for whatever reason, CUPS is timing out in talking to the > printer and thus administratively downs the printer. What it *should* > do, ideally, is simply try again (maybe the printer cable got kicked, > or it was powered off, or whatever). And we can, indeed, make that > happen! > > Again, in /etc/cups/printers.conf, replace the following line > > ErrorPolicy stop-printer > > with this > > ErrorPolicy retry-job > > > and things should be just peachy from here out. Remember to restart > the CUPS daemon after this change as well so that it takes effect. > > --TP > > Slight edit: The line should be "State Idle" instead of "State idle" > above. This may indeed be case sensitive. Hey, I'm a little tired. :-) > > --TP > > > > > From SteveSings at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 20:38:10 2008 From: SteveSings at gmail.com (Stephen Crampton) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:38:10 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance Message-ID: I'm using the latest version of Edubuntu. I'm not sure how to check the CPU or network load. Could someone tell me the most efficient way? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caldodge at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 21:01:32 2008 From: caldodge at gmail.com (Calvin Dodge) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:01:32 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <824a5f7a0808291401g12cca74ep92bffb09b4e36089@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/29 Stephen Crampton : > I'm using the latest version of Edubuntu. > > I'm not sure how to check the CPU or network load. Could someone tell me > the most efficient way? IMHO, gkrellm is probably the simplest way. It displays moving graphs of server metrics, including CPU usage and network bandwidth. If it's not installed, I'm pretty sure it's readily available for your distro. /sbin/lspci will tell you what hardware is installed, so you can tell us the make and model of the server's NIC. Meanwhile, my wild guess is that it's a network issue - either the NIC, or the switch. That's why you want to "cat /proc/net/dev" after running Tuxtype and such - it will tell you if packet errors or drops are significant contributors to the problem. Calvin From aahodson at episd.org Fri Aug 29 21:37:31 2008 From: aahodson at episd.org (Alan Hodson) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:37:31 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos 5.2: how to... In-Reply-To: <20080829160030.C333F619E55@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20080829160030.C333F619E55@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <48B81496.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> After having my "fav_tips" cleaned out from my Groupwise box (we are switching to Zimbra) I could not find the reference I had linked where one of our gurus explained how to add the LTSP thin client (or was it the k12ltsp?) module to the standard Centos 5.2 install, and my googling skills appear to be defective... Anybody out there can help me with the proper link? Have a safe and restful weekend y'all alan El Paso ISD, TX -=o=- From toddobryan at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 21:48:39 2008 From: toddobryan at gmail.com (Todd O'Bryan) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:48:39 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <824a5f7a0808291401g12cca74ep92bffb09b4e36089@mail.gmail.com> References: <824a5f7a0808291401g12cca74ep92bffb09b4e36089@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <904774730808291448r6108f036k1e7ac388e558960e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Calvin Dodge wrote: > 2008/8/29 Stephen Crampton : > > I'm using the latest version of Edubuntu. > > > > I'm not sure how to check the CPU or network load. Could someone tell me > > the most efficient way? > > IMHO, gkrellm is probably the simplest way. It displays moving graphs > of server metrics, including CPU usage and network bandwidth. If it's > not installed, I'm pretty sure it's readily available for your distro. > > /sbin/lspci will tell you what hardware is installed, so you can tell > us the make and model of the server's NIC. Meanwhile, my wild guess is > that it's a network issue - either the NIC, or the switch. That's why > you want to "cat /proc/net/dev" after running Tuxtype and such - it > will tell you if packet errors or drops are significant contributors > to the problem. > > Calvin > To follow on with this, we noticed that our server that was running wonderfully last year on the 64-bit kernel was having lots of problems on the 32-bit server kernel. It turns out that the 32-bit server kernel and the driver for the onboard NIC don't play so well together and we'd keep getting dropped connection errors. I spent $25 on a new NIC and the speed went back up. The moral--sometimes the weirdest things can cause issues. And--in my case--it's really good to have a smart student who knows how to check the syslog. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caldodge at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 22:11:21 2008 From: caldodge at gmail.com (Calvin Dodge) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:11:21 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <904774730808291448r6108f036k1e7ac388e558960e@mail.gmail.com> References: <824a5f7a0808291401g12cca74ep92bffb09b4e36089@mail.gmail.com> <904774730808291448r6108f036k1e7ac388e558960e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <824a5f7a0808291511i56e26ae4xb81ab8b444373769@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/29 Todd O'Bryan : > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Calvin Dodge wrote: > To follow on with this, we noticed that our server that was running > wonderfully last year on the 64-bit kernel was having lots of problems on > the 32-bit server kernel. It turns out that the 32-bit server kernel and the > driver for the onboard NIC don't play so well together and we'd keep getting > dropped connection errors. I spent $25 on a new NIC and the speed went back > up. I was thinking of mentioning getting a new NIC - I guess I really should have (wanted to see what he had, first). If you decide to try this, Stephen, I strongly suggest getting an Intel NIC. Calvin From monteslu at cox.net Fri Aug 29 22:22:37 2008 From: monteslu at cox.net (monteslu at cox.net) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:22:37 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> ---- Stephen Crampton wrote: > I'm using the latest version of Edubuntu. > > I'm not sure how to check the CPU or network load. Could someone tell me > the most efficient way? Edit the default section of lts.conf and add this: LDM_DIRECTX = True reboot your thin clients and you'll see dramatic improvement in performance. I know it's less secure, but having it defaulted to false is unusable for most hardware. Luis From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Aug 29 22:41:28 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:41:28 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> Message-ID: <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> monteslu at cox.net wrote: > ---- Stephen Crampton wrote: > >> I'm using the latest version of Edubuntu. >> >> I'm not sure how to check the CPU or network load. Could someone tell me >> the most efficient way? >> > > Edit the default section of lts.conf and add this: > LDM_DIRECTX = True > > reboot your thin clients and you'll see dramatic improvement in performance. > > I know it's less secure, but having it defaulted to false is unusable for most hardware. > > Luis You're right, it is somewhat less secure, no question. However, the INFOSEC engineer in me classes this under "acceptable risk". Here's why. 1.) What matters most, in most K-12 thin client environments, is that the credentials are encrypted. Remember that most data on MS Windows-based networks (e. g. file copies, MS Exchange email, etc.) is not encrypted, but the login credentials most certainly are. 2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're running, at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you really should be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, and B.) you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point out that yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. But in God's name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) prevent that! 3.) The data that most K12-based LTSP deployments have to worry about isn't mission-critical. Only if you're dealing with the Student Information System (SIS) or something similar does that change. In this latter case, you might want to reconsider the setting of LDM_DIRECTX, depending on your environment. 4.) Even if you're running LTSP to hit your SIS, though, remember that this is a switched, wired network. Wardrivers by definition aren't going to be an issue. Most shops, including mine, who run SASIxp, do so on a vanilla 10/100 Cat 5 network. That's not how we get cracked. We get cracked because teachers and administrators routinely walk away from terminals without locking them. Or worse, they're insane enough to--yes--let a "trusted" student do grade entries! DUH! For these reasons, I don't see a real-world problem with that setting. --TP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 23:01:57 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:01:57 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: 2008/8/29 Terrell Prude' Jr. : > 2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're running, > at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you really should > be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, and B.) > you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other > peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point out that > yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. But in God's > name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) prevent that! Please enlighten me Terrell. I don't understand how having access to the server is a vulnerability in terms of sniffing packets. One must have root access to be able to use a program like tcpdump or wireshark to capture packets. So if they don't have root how can they sniff? -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From Patrick.Healy at dsusd.us Sat Aug 30 01:24:49 2008 From: Patrick.Healy at dsusd.us (Healy, Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:24:49 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Release: ltsp-5.1.21 for Fedora 9 Message-ID: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750DE0CFD1@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> Warren Togami wrote: > I just pushed ltsp-5.1.21 and ldm-2.0.12 to my temporary repo. How does one enable this repo in yum? I'd like to update the Live LTSP Server Beta 1 install I made to the hard drive to this new version, but not sure what I need to enter as a .repo file. Is the Live LTSP able to be updated -- I'd like to put something into production this weekend for start of school on Tuesday, and then update it as needed. I this not a good idea? Thanks. Patrick Healy Palm Desert High School From toddobryan at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 01:45:03 2008 From: toddobryan at gmail.com (Todd O'Bryan) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:45:03 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > 2008/8/29 Terrell Prude' Jr. : > > 2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're > running, > > at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you really > should > > be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, and > B.) > > you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other > > peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point out > that > > yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. But in > God's > > name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) prevent > that! > > Please enlighten me Terrell. I don't understand how having access to > the server is a vulnerability in terms of sniffing packets. One must > have root access to be able to use a program like tcpdump or wireshark > to capture packets. So if they don't have root how can they sniff? > Oooh, oooh...One of my students just told me this one. At least on Ubuntu (and I'd guess on other Linuxes), you can start the server in safe mode in case you broke something. If you do that, you get this lovely command-line interface with root access. Since he showed me that, I've been much more careful about keeping the server closet locked. Todd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 02:54:38 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:54:38 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2008/8/29 Todd O'Bryan : > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: >> >> 2008/8/29 Terrell Prude' Jr. : >> > 2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're >> > running, >> > at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you really >> > should >> > be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, and >> > B.) >> > you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other >> > peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point out >> > that >> > yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. But in >> > God's >> > name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) prevent >> > that! >> >> Please enlighten me Terrell. I don't understand how having access to >> the server is a vulnerability in terms of sniffing packets. One must >> have root access to be able to use a program like tcpdump or wireshark >> to capture packets. So if they don't have root how can they sniff? > > Oooh, oooh...One of my students just told me this one. At least on Ubuntu > (and I'd guess on other Linuxes), you can start the server in safe mode in > case you broke something. If you do that, you get this lovely command-line > interface with root access. You can protect against that by setting a password in grub or lilo. But that's not what I mean. Here is my question: Since X traffic is sent unencrypted how is someone suppose to intercept the packets (containing keyboard input) if using a switch that only sends packets to their destination. So you can only sniff yourself. (Hmm, did I just say that?) IF you are sitting at the server ALL local traffic goes through eth0. BUT you need root access to read those packets, don't you? So again how is direct X traffic a vulnerability? The only way I can think is if, as Terrell said, you have control of the switch and you enable port mirroring. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From balmquist at mindfirestudios.com Sat Aug 30 03:23:28 2008 From: balmquist at mindfirestudios.com (Almquist Burke) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:23:28 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Aug 29, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > Here is my question: > > Since X traffic is sent unencrypted how is someone suppose to > intercept the packets (containing keyboard input) if using a switch > that only sends packets to their destination. So you can only sniff > yourself. (Hmm, did I just say that?) IF you are sitting at the > server ALL local traffic goes through eth0. BUT you need root access > to read those packets, don't you? So again how is direct X traffic a > vulnerability? > > The only way I can think is if, as Terrell said, you have control of > the switch and you enable port mirroring. > ARP poisoning? All they need is access to the network on a machine with raw socket capabilities. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAki4vTAACgkQxWV7OPa/g5HZXACdFzB4kuGz/2gR1KnH4VZL5LbB 854An3CYTYlu4Ra4zIyQJ/tWcgOQAv1W =rvvK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 03:41:06 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:41:06 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Almquist Burke wrote: > > ARP poisoning? All they need is access to the network on a machine with raw > socket capabilities. Okay basically MAC spoofing eth0 on the server. But if they do this won't it kill all the X sessions running on the clients? Plus won't the switch get confused as to which port to send the data to since it will now have 2 ports claiming the same MAC address? -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 03:41:42 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:41:42 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > 2008/8/29 Terrell Prude' Jr. : > >> 2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're running, >> at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you really should >> be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, and B.) >> you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other >> peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point out that >> yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. But in God's >> name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) prevent that! >> > > Please enlighten me Terrell. I don't understand how having access to > the server is a vulnerability in terms of sniffing packets. One must > have root access to be able to use a program like tcpdump or wireshark > to capture packets. So if they don't have root how can they sniff? > Easy. Say you're a "curious" kid. :-) Just insert your own switch (yes, they're available on eBay) in between the server and its network drop. On your switch, mirror the port to your laptop (laptop HD's are pretty big nowadays). Boom, you've done it, and no, it ain't that hard to do. I do this sort of thing regularly at work as part of my network engineer duties when troubleshooting certain problems. However, if the server's physically secured, then very likely its network drop is also physically secured, if it's a standard building. Thus, it becomes, obviously, much more difficult to insert any gear in between the LTSP server and its network drop. --TP From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 03:48:08 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:48:08 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> Message-ID: <48B8C2F8.6060805@cmosnetworks.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Almquist Burke > wrote: > >> ARP poisoning? All they need is access to the network on a machine with raw >> socket capabilities. >> > > Okay basically MAC spoofing eth0 on the server. But if they do this > won't it kill all the X sessions running on the clients? Plus won't > the switch get confused as to which port to send the data to since it > will now have 2 ports claiming the same MAC address? > Yeah, it could kill the X sessions, but the switch itself likely won't get confused. It'll simply use the last entry that was made in the CAM table, assuming that it has enough CPU to keep its CAM tables updated fast enough (two boxes saying, "aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff is over here!" "Oops, aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff is over *here* now!" and so on). Remember that bridges are not very complicated; the logic's pretty simple. What *will* get confused is any X11 sessions that are expecting certain packets to arrive, and those packets don't, and that's how the sessions get degraded, then killed. --TP From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 04:00:10 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:00:10 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> Message-ID: <48B8C5CA.6070308@cmosnetworks.com> Almquist Burke wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > On Aug 29, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: >> Here is my question: >> >> Since X traffic is sent unencrypted how is someone suppose to >> intercept the packets (containing keyboard input) if using a switch >> that only sends packets to their destination. So you can only sniff >> yourself. (Hmm, did I just say that?) IF you are sitting at the >> server ALL local traffic goes through eth0. BUT you need root access >> to read those packets, don't you? So again how is direct X traffic a >> vulnerability? >> >> The only way I can think is if, as Terrell said, you have control of >> the switch and you enable port mirroring. >> > > ARP poisoning? All they need is access to the network on a machine > with raw socket capabilities. That's what port security is for, which most managed switches do support. Just tell your switch to allow the LTSP server's MAC address only from that one port. Any yahoo that comes along that tries any monkey business like that will get his port shut down right then and there. If your switch supports it, you can tell it to just disable the port for, say, two hours, and then have it re-enable the port after that period. --TP From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 04:03:27 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:03:27 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > > Easy. Say you're a "curious" kid. :-) Just insert your own switch (yes, > they're available on eBay) in between the server and its network drop. On > your switch, mirror the port to your laptop (laptop HD's are pretty big > nowadays). Boom, you've done it, and no, it ain't that hard to do. I do > this sort of thing regularly at work as part of my network engineer duties > when troubleshooting certain problems. Thanks Terrell I get it now. Still bringing in a laptop+switch and connecting it all isn't likely to happen with a teacher in the room. I still feel safe using direct X. And let me remind people that if teachers use the server itself as a workstation this kind of sniffing will NOT work. It could only work for other thin clients. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From robark at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 04:08:13 2008 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:08:13 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B8C5CA.6070308@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> <48B8C5CA.6070308@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Almquist Burke wrote: >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> On Aug 29, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: >>> >>> Here is my question: >>> >>> Since X traffic is sent unencrypted how is someone suppose to >>> intercept the packets (containing keyboard input) if using a switch >>> that only sends packets to their destination. So you can only sniff >>> yourself. (Hmm, did I just say that?) IF you are sitting at the >>> server ALL local traffic goes through eth0. BUT you need root access >>> to read those packets, don't you? So again how is direct X traffic a >>> vulnerability? >>> >>> The only way I can think is if, as Terrell said, you have control of >>> the switch and you enable port mirroring. >>> >> >> ARP poisoning? All they need is access to the network on a machine with >> raw socket capabilities. > > That's what port security is for, which most managed switches do support. > Just tell your switch to allow the LTSP server's MAC address only from that > one port. Any yahoo that comes along that tries any monkey business like > that will get his port shut down right then and there. If your switch > supports it, you can tell it to just disable the port for, say, two hours, > and then have it re-enable the port after that period. > Cool that's a good idea. But in any case, even without managed switches, if everyone all of sudden loses their X sessions what's the point of sniffing? -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 16:38:20 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:38:20 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> <48B8C5CA.6070308@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48B9777C.4070302@cmosnetworks.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. > wrote: > >> Almquist Burke wrote: >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> >>> On Aug 29, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: >>> >>>> Here is my question: >>>> >>>> Since X traffic is sent unencrypted how is someone suppose to >>>> intercept the packets (containing keyboard input) if using a switch >>>> that only sends packets to their destination. So you can only sniff >>>> yourself. (Hmm, did I just say that?) IF you are sitting at the >>>> server ALL local traffic goes through eth0. BUT you need root access >>>> to read those packets, don't you? So again how is direct X traffic a >>>> vulnerability? >>>> >>>> The only way I can think is if, as Terrell said, you have control of >>>> the switch and you enable port mirroring. >>>> >>>> >>> ARP poisoning? All they need is access to the network on a machine with >>> raw socket capabilities. >>> >> That's what port security is for, which most managed switches do support. >> Just tell your switch to allow the LTSP server's MAC address only from that >> one port. Any yahoo that comes along that tries any monkey business like >> that will get his port shut down right then and there. If your switch >> supports it, you can tell it to just disable the port for, say, two hours, >> and then have it re-enable the port after that period. >> >> > > Cool that's a good idea. But in any case, even without managed > switches, if everyone all of sudden loses their X sessions what's the > point of sniffing? > Sniffing's a different discussion. ARP spoofing's more of a man-in-the-middle and/or denial-of-service attack. --TP From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 16:41:54 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:41:54 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48B97852.5040308@cmosnetworks.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. > wrote: > >> Easy. Say you're a "curious" kid. :-) Just insert your own switch (yes, >> they're available on eBay) in between the server and its network drop. On >> your switch, mirror the port to your laptop (laptop HD's are pretty big >> nowadays). Boom, you've done it, and no, it ain't that hard to do. I do >> this sort of thing regularly at work as part of my network engineer duties >> when troubleshooting certain problems. >> > > Thanks Terrell I get it now. Still bringing in a laptop+switch and > connecting it all isn't likely to happen with a teacher in the room. I > still feel safe using direct X. And let me remind people that if > teachers use the server itself as a workstation this kind of sniffing > will NOT work. It could only work for other thin clients. > Well, that's my point. That LDM_DIRECTX setting is what I'd call "acceptable risk"...assuming that you've physically secured your server, which folks should always be doing anyway. You *are* doing that, right? :-) --TP From rowens at ptd.net Sat Aug 30 20:44:38 2008 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:44:38 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <20080830204438.GD380@junker.owens.net> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:41:42PM -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Robert Arkiletian wrote: > >2008/8/29 Terrell Prude' Jr. : > > > >>2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're running, > >>at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you really > >>should > >>be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, and B.) > >>you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other > >>peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point out > >>that > >>yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. But in > >>God's > >>name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) prevent > >>that! > >> > > > >Please enlighten me Terrell. I don't understand how having access to > >the server is a vulnerability in terms of sniffing packets. One must > >have root access to be able to use a program like tcpdump or wireshark > >to capture packets. So if they don't have root how can they sniff? > > > > Easy. Say you're a "curious" kid. :-) Just insert your own switch > (yes, they're available on eBay) in between the server and its network > drop. On your switch, mirror the port to your laptop (laptop HD's are > pretty big nowadays). Boom, you've done it, and no, it ain't that hard > to do. I do this sort of thing regularly at work as part of my network > engineer duties when troubleshooting certain problems. > Or even easier (well, at least cheaper) is to throw a hub in between the server and the main switch. A hub mirrors all ports -- at least that's how I understand it. Anyway, I've tried it and it works. -Rob From lesmikesell at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 21:15:26 2008 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:15:26 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B9777C.4070302@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> <48B8C5CA.6070308@cmosnetworks.com> <48B9777C.4070302@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48B9B86E.20306@gmail.com> Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > >> >> Cool that's a good idea. But in any case, even without managed >> switches, if everyone all of sudden loses their X sessions what's the >> point of sniffing? >> > > Sniffing's a different discussion. ARP spoofing's more of a > man-in-the-middle and/or denial-of-service attack. > There are variations where you spoof a MAC address to the switch so it sends you some packets intended for a different port, but TCP retries will soon send another copy that keep the original destination from noticing that anything is wrong. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 21:16:43 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:16:43 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <20080830204438.GD380@junker.owens.net> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080830204438.GD380@junker.owens.net> Message-ID: <48B9B8BB.7080101@cmosnetworks.com> Rob Owens wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:41:42PM -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > >> Robert Arkiletian wrote: >> >>> 2008/8/29 Terrell Prude' Jr. : >>> >>> >>>> 2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're running, >>>> at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you really >>>> should >>>> be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, and B.) >>>> you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other >>>> peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point out >>>> that >>>> yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. But in >>>> God's >>>> name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) prevent >>>> that! >>>> >>>> >>> Please enlighten me Terrell. I don't understand how having access to >>> the server is a vulnerability in terms of sniffing packets. One must >>> have root access to be able to use a program like tcpdump or wireshark >>> to capture packets. So if they don't have root how can they sniff? >>> >>> >> Easy. Say you're a "curious" kid. :-) Just insert your own switch >> (yes, they're available on eBay) in between the server and its network >> drop. On your switch, mirror the port to your laptop (laptop HD's are >> pretty big nowadays). Boom, you've done it, and no, it ain't that hard >> to do. I do this sort of thing regularly at work as part of my network >> engineer duties when troubleshooting certain problems. >> >> > > Or even easier (well, at least cheaper) is to throw a hub in between the server and the main switch. A hub mirrors all ports -- at least that's how I understand it. Anyway, I've tried it and it works. > > -Rob > > Yep, that'll certainly do it, too. The problem with that approach is that it'd be much more noticeable from a performance standpoint. Collisions will slow down LTSP to a crawl, and further, you'll slow the server's NIC down to 100Mbps (Gig-E switches don't exist--fortunately). Therefore, naturally, someone'll investigate sooner than if you used a managed 10/100/1000 switch to do the same thing. --TP From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 21:20:49 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:20:49 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B9B86E.20306@gmail.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <904774730808291845i5eb3f0f9nbd022eaa8d07a6f9@mail.gmail.com> <0C19273C-C74D-4A4C-B9B5-6325951437DC@mindfirestudios.com> <48B8C5CA.6070308@cmosnetworks.com> <48B9777C.4070302@cmosnetworks.com> <48B9B86E.20306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B9B9B1.3090702@cmosnetworks.com> Les Mikesell wrote: > Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: >> >> >>> Cool that's a good idea. But in any case, even without managed >>> switches, if everyone all of sudden loses their X sessions what's the >>> point of sniffing? >>> >> >> Sniffing's a different discussion. ARP spoofing's more of a >> man-in-the-middle and/or denial-of-service attack. >> > > There are variations where you spoof a MAC address to the switch so it > sends you some packets intended for a different port, but TCP retries > will soon send another copy that keep the original destination from > noticing that anything is wrong. > True. That's what I meant about degrading the X11 connection earlier, due to the TCP retries. It is effectively a "somewhat nicer" DoS attack. You'll probably notice it more if you're playing something like TuxType. Port security on the switch can help deal with this issue if it becomes a problem operationally. Personally, that's what I like to do when Layer 8 lets me do it--physically secure the LTSP server, and do port security on the switch ports to help mitigate this sort of thing. --TP From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Aug 30 21:21:39 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:21:39 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B9B8BB.7080101@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> <20080830204438.GD380@junker.owens.net> <48B9B8BB.7080101@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <48B9B9E3.4060103@cmosnetworks.com> Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Rob Owens wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:41:42PM -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: >> >>> Robert Arkiletian wrote: >>> >>>> 2008/8/29 Terrell Prude' Jr. : >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2.) If you're running LTSP of any sort, it's assumed that you're >>>>> running, >>>>> at a minimum, a switched 10/100 environment (if not, then you >>>>> really should >>>>> be!). Unless A.) it's a managed switch capable of port mirroring, >>>>> and B.) >>>>> you control said switch, you can sniff *your* traffic, but not other >>>>> peoples. To keep the Les Mikesells of the world happy, I'll point >>>>> out that >>>>> yes, you could sniff the server if it's physically accessible. >>>>> But in God's >>>>> name, I hope you have it secured physically so's to (largely) >>>>> prevent that! >>>>> >>>> Please enlighten me Terrell. I don't understand how having access to >>>> the server is a vulnerability in terms of sniffing packets. One must >>>> have root access to be able to use a program like tcpdump or wireshark >>>> to capture packets. So if they don't have root how can they sniff? >>>> >>>> >>> Easy. Say you're a "curious" kid. :-) Just insert your own switch >>> (yes, they're available on eBay) in between the server and its >>> network drop. On your switch, mirror the port to your laptop >>> (laptop HD's are pretty big nowadays). Boom, you've done it, and >>> no, it ain't that hard to do. I do this sort of thing regularly at >>> work as part of my network engineer duties when troubleshooting >>> certain problems. >>> >>> >> >> Or even easier (well, at least cheaper) is to throw a hub in between >> the server and the main switch. A hub mirrors all ports -- at least >> that's how I understand it. Anyway, I've tried it and it works. >> >> -Rob >> >> > > Yep, that'll certainly do it, too. The problem with that approach is > that it'd be much more noticeable from a performance standpoint. > Collisions will slow down LTSP to a crawl, and further, you'll slow > the server's NIC down to 100Mbps (Gig-E switches don't > exist--fortunately). Therefore, naturally, someone'll investigate > sooner than if you used a managed 10/100/1000 switch to do the same > thing. > > --TP 'Scuze me...I meant "Gig-E *HUBS* don't exist--fortunately." Geez.... --TP From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sat Aug 30 22:28:19 2008 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:28:19 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] wpkg for Samba Message-ID: <1220135299.24492.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello List, This is very much so Samba related but I'm sure there are several people here this would relate to. wpkg is a nice add on to Samba that allows you to mass install Windows software to Windows clients machines as they log onto a Samba server. It works very similar to OCSInventory NG,other than wpkg does no inventory of actual hardware/software. Today's offerings. I have made a simple binary rpm that installs all of the needed files for both server and client. Thought this may be of some good to someone here. If there is any interest, I'll post the url to download from. I know most folks here like to roll their own. It's worth checking into for admin trench diggers, like me:). Take Care, Barry Cisna From onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca Sun Aug 31 00:22:26 2008 From: onatawahtaw at yahoo.ca (Onatawahtaw) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? In-Reply-To: <48AB2C81.1090506@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <40013.17944.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Carl, I just succeeded in setting up an LDAP server, I put some notes here if you are interested: http://chcn.ca/server - I'm not an expert, but let me know if I can be of assistance. -Kevin --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Carl Keil wrote: > From: Carl Keil > Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? > To: k12osn at redhat.com > Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 3:26 PM > Hey, > > Can someone point me to a current samba/ldap how to? This > is my first > foray into ldap. Is there any prep I should do before I > start? Is it > way easier to start off with a list of all users? What > format should > that be in, etc. Or is it easy to add later? What > decisions should I > make before I start. > > Thanks a lot, > > ck > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Aug 31 01:40:31 2008 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 21:40:31 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Release: ltsp-5.1.21 for Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750DE0CFD1@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> References: <8DA4240136DC0E4F942F49709C8D0B750DE0CFD1@ds-mx2.dsusd.k12.ca.us> Message-ID: <48B9F68F.7030902@redhat.com> Healy, Patrick wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: >> I just pushed ltsp-5.1.21 and ldm-2.0.12 to my temporary repo. > > How does one enable this repo in yum? I'd like to update the Live LTSP Server Beta 1 > install I made to the hard drive to this new version, but not sure what I need to > enter as a .repo file. Is the Live LTSP able to be updated -- I'd like to put > something into production this weekend for start of school on Tuesday, and then > update it as needed. I this not a good idea? Thanks. These are heading to official fedora updates soon. Meanwhile, grab the ltsp-server from the repo and upgrade it on your server side manually. Grab the ltsp-client, put it into /opt/ltsp/i386/tmp, then chroot into /opt/ltsp/i386 and upgrade ltsp-client manually. If you want until it hits Fedora updates, you can run "yum update" in the client and server and update each. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From carl at snarlnet.com Sun Aug 31 03:43:40 2008 From: carl at snarlnet.com (Carl Keil) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:43:40 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? In-Reply-To: <40013.17944.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <40013.17944.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48BA136C.30602@snarlnet.com> Wow thanks. Those notes are very thorough. I'll be back at it on Monday, so I'll try to walk through your notes then. I think I have everything installed and maybe even configured using the smbldap-configure script. I finally got it to run through without errors on Centos5 I picked Centos44 in the install and then worked through the error messages. I'm going to try adding a student group and student and start working from there. Thanks again. I really appreciate you thinking of me to share your notes with. ck Onatawahtaw wrote: > Hi Carl, > > I just succeeded in setting up an LDAP server, I put some notes here if you are interested: http://chcn.ca/server - I'm not an expert, but let me know if I can be of assistance. > > -Kevin > > > > --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Carl Keil wrote: > > >> From: Carl Keil >> Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP howto? >> To: k12osn at redhat.com >> Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 3:26 PM >> Hey, >> >> Can someone point me to a current samba/ldap how to? This >> is my first >> foray into ldap. Is there any prep I should do before I >> start? Is it >> way easier to start off with a list of all users? What >> format should >> that be in, etc. Or is it easy to add later? What >> decisions should I >> make before I start. >> >> Thanks a lot, >> >> ck >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > > > > > From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sun Aug 31 14:14:19 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:14:19 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1220192059.8535.9.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 06:16 -0400, Stephen Crampton wrote: > I'm trying to get a thin-client lab up and running. > > Currently, I have a dual-processor AMD CPU with 4 GB of RAM as my > server. The server has a 1 GB Ethernet card. > > The server is connected to a 1 GB 8-port Ethernet switch. > > I have 7 clients attached. They have Intel motherboards and are about > 1 year old. They have 512 MB of memory. They have 100 Mbps Ethernet > cards. > > Performance is sluggish, which surprises me. When my students are > running something very lightweight such as kbruch, the machines run > fine, however, if one of them opens up TuxMath or TuxTyping or some > other applications, everything slows way down. Both of these apps are _VERY_ data throughput intensive. They send lots of pixel data across the network. There are some tricks you can do. 1. Make sure the server is connected to a Gb port on the switch (multiple ports is better using bonding). An 800x600 tuxmath uses 460,800,000 bits per second just for screen drawing at 60Hz refresh and only 16 bit color (that's 56.25 MB/s!). I love tuxmath for it's teaching ability, the fun math practice time and the kids love it. But it is a hog. > > I noticed that there are parameters that can be tuned in lts.conf. I > reduced the screen resolution to 800x600 and the color depth to 8 > bits. Does anyone have any suggestions for other parameters that > might make my system a little more responsive? > > Also, I've been reading wiki pages and mailing list entries regarding > fattening thin clients. There seem to be two ways of doing it: (1) > building a new ltsp system "fati386" or (2) writing scripts that > execute particular programs on the client and direct the display to > the client's Xwindows server. Tuxmath and tuxtype are prime candidates for local-app status. That solves the network load issues nicely. Firefox and streaming multimedia are local-app candidates for memory hogging and cpu hogging reasons. > > I've spent a number of hours on both approaches without success. > Before I invest a lot more time, could someone recommend one approach > or the other? > > Thanks, > Steve > > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Sun Aug 31 14:24:57 2008 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:24:57 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <1220192697.8535.17.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 23:41 -0400, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Easy. Say you're a "curious" kid. :-) Just insert your own switch > (yes, they're available on eBay) in between the server and its network > drop. On your switch, mirror the port to your laptop (laptop HD's are > pretty big nowadays). Boom, you've done it, and no, it ain't that hard > to do. I do this sort of thing regularly at work as part of my network > engineer duties when troubleshooting certain problems. > > However, if the server's physically secured, then very likely its > network drop is also physically secured, if it's a standard building. > Thus, it becomes, obviously, much more difficult to insert any gear in > between the LTSP server and its network drop. It is pretty easy to insert a switch between the upstream feed side in a classroom and the classroom switch itself. But that only gets the traffic in the classroom. If the setup is using a classroom server model (teacher sits at the server console, thin clients for the kids), then only traffic between the server and back-end storage server (and web crap, etc) is available. The fun part is: an kid smart enough to know how to get the right switch that support port mirroring, and can pull this off, should be working for the school immediately! This does 2 things: sends a message that smart, clever people are actually good (Yay! Education!) and most importantly the school now has a bit of oversight on the student with excellent hacking skills. Getting them involved in a positive way helps deter the "turn to the darkside" that getting in trouble will encourage. -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Aug 31 18:30:47 2008 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:30:47 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Tuning LTSP Performance In-Reply-To: <1220192697.8535.17.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <20080829182237.AM4M4.32094.imail@fed1rmwml25> <48B87B18.9040008@cmosnetworks.com> <48B8C176.9030905@cmosnetworks.com> <1220192697.8535.17.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: <48BAE357.3040303@cmosnetworks.com> James P. Kinney III wrote: > It is pretty easy to insert a switch between the upstream feed side in a > classroom and the classroom switch itself. But that only gets the > traffic in the classroom. If the setup is using a classroom server model > (teacher sits at the server console, thin clients for the kids), then > only traffic between the server and back-end storage server (and web > crap, etc) is available. > > Agreed. The only time that I'd consider that a major concern is if staff members are accessing their Student Information System (SIS) from the LTSP thin clients. In that case, SSH encryption becomes a very good thing. > The fun part is: an kid smart enough to know how to get the right switch > that support port mirroring, and can pull this off, should be working > for the school immediately! This does 2 things: sends a message that > smart, clever people are actually good (Yay! Education!) and most > importantly the school now has a bit of oversight on the student with > excellent hacking skills. Getting them involved in a positive way helps > deter the "turn to the darkside" that getting in trouble will encourage. > There's a lot of truth to that. My district is blessed to have a magnet school, Thomas Jefferson HS for Science and Technology, in it, and thus I get to see what they do in their Systems Lab. At TJHSST, the students are the sysadmins for the school's Internet and "intranet" presence. Yep, the students. Sure, there's an adult advisor of the Systems Lab, where all that stuff's done, but about the only thing the kids *don't* run is the SIS (it uses separate authentication). They handle everything else. These kids run a very tight ship, for exactly the reasons that James specified above. Anybody tries cracking that network, the student sysadmin team members consider that absolutely unacceptable ("hey, this is *our* network, and it's for *everyone* to use, not just you!"), and they go into Sherlock Holmes mode. The offender(s) are then swiftly and severely dealt with by the school administration--and that includes any misbehaving teachers, not just other kids. Remember, since this is a magnet school, 15% of whose kids go on to MIT, these kids are basically all geniuses. BTW, their choice of distro is Debian GNU/Linux. That's largely because they can easily run it on their PMac and SPARC boxes, too (they've got several of those). --TP From carl at snarlnet.com Sun Aug 31 21:14:12 2008 From: carl at snarlnet.com (Carl Keil) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:14:12 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Time based content filtering Message-ID: <48BB09A4.1090301@snarlnet.com> Hi Folks, I remember seeing this discussed on this list before. (IIRC) Has anyone figured out how to make DansGuardian do it's blocking business only at certain times? Or, better, is there a way to tie content filtering to certain LDAP logins? So that little kids are filtered and older students and staff aren't? Any thoughts, scripts, pointers or URL's would be appreciated. Thanks, ck From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Aug 31 21:51:34 2008 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:51:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [K12OSN] Time based content filtering Message-ID: <44561.192.168.1.1.1220219494.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net> Carl, What we do for this situation is in firefox change the prefs globally, then just have the "teachers" take out the setting in their browser. Trying to do the time thing is usually a nightmare to actually work in the real world.Even though hardcoding the prefs in globally it can be taken out by any user,if they know how to get to Firefox's preferences in the file menu. It's worth a shot this way to see if it works for you. The up side is this is very simple/quick to get setup and actually work. Simply go to; /usr/lib/firefox/greprefs/all.js go down to about line # 703 pref("network.proxy.http", change the "" to "proxyserveripnumber" pref("network.proxy.http_port", change the "" to "80" or "8080" #whicherver port # your proxy server listens on. Close firefox,open firefox, go to preferences,You will see your settings in Firefox. The proxy ntlm authentication logons we tried as well and wound up being a maintenence nightmare.If you have a couple of students that likes to keep entering usernames/passwords,for this this may work for you . Take Care, Barry Cisna