From news at siddall.name Thu Apr 4 01:34:49 2013 From: news at siddall.name (Jeff Siddall) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 21:34:49 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] kwin crashing Message-ID: <515CD8B9.2000705@siddall.name> Recently I have been getting "Kwin is unstable it seems to have crashed several times in a row." when logging in with session set to KDE, and as expected no WM. However, a dialog pops up that offers to try another window manager, and if you select metacity it does work. Subsequently running "kwin --replace" results in kwin crashing and no WM again. Any ideas what might be causing this and how to get kwin working again? There did not appear to be any updates to kde or X installed recently so I am puzzled. One perhaps related strange thing is that, regardless of whether metacity is running or even with no WM at all, clicking the "Desktop" icon in the systemsettings app causes the app to crash. This makes me think it may be related to desktop effects, but it could also be unlreated. Removing ~/.kde does not prevent the problem. System is running SL6. Thanks, Jeff From cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us Mon Apr 8 12:50:48 2013 From: cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us (Barry Cisna) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 07:50:48 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] kwin crashing Message-ID: <1365425448.7697.1.camel@localhost> Jeff, Others appear to be experiencing this as well. These is OpenSuse http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/applications/478265-kwin-crashes.html Barry From jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be Tue Apr 9 07:33:44 2013 From: jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be (Johan Vermeulen) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:33:44 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update Message-ID: <5163C458.9060300@cawdekempen.be> Dear All, I saw on Facebook that there was an update on 17th of March ( I am not subscribed to the announcement list ) I have k12linux repo enabled on some machines and I'm trying to run yum update, that doesn't seem to work. How to update this? My current version : [root at deveder yum.repos.d]# rpm -qa | grep ltsp ltsp-server-5.2.17-1.el6.i686 ltspfs-0.8-2.el6.i686 Thanks for any advise. greetings, J. Opensource Software is the future. From enslaver at enslaver.com Tue Apr 9 16:39:55 2013 From: enslaver at enslaver.com (Joshua Trimm) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 11:39:55 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: <5163C458.9060300@cawdekempen.be> References: <5163C458.9060300@cawdekempen.be> Message-ID: <5164445B.6000901@enslaver.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be Wed Apr 10 07:26:41 2013 From: jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be (Johan Vermeulen) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:26:41 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: <5164445B.6000901@enslaver.com> References: <5163C458.9060300@cawdekempen.be> <5164445B.6000901@enslaver.com> Message-ID: <51651431.1030303@cawdekempen.be> Hello Joshua, i've tested this; this seems to work. rpm -Uvh http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm gave me Retrieving http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found fout: skipping http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm - transfer failed but I downloaded the rpm from the site. After that yum update seems to work : ================================================================================ Package Arch Version Repository Size ================================================================================ Updating: coreutils i686 8.4-19.el6_4.1 updates 3.0 M epel-release noarch 6-8 ltsp 14 k ldminfod i686 2.2.11-3.el6 ltsp 11 k lsof i686 4.82-4.el6 base 315 k ltsp-server i686 5.4.5-17.el6 ltsp 158 k ltspfs i686 1.1-7.el6 ltsp 33 k net-tools i686 1.60-110.el6_2 base 265 k procps i686 3.2.8-25.el6 base 210 k Installing for dependencies: createrepo noarch 0.9.9-17.el6 base 94 k deltarpm i686 3.5-0.5.20090913git.el6 base 73 k dialog i686 1.1-9.20080819.1.el6 base 196 k fuse-devel i686 2.8.3-4.el6 base 32 k ldm i686 2.2.11-3.el6 ltsp 133 k libXaw i686 1.0.11-2.el6 base 190 k mock noarch 1.1.28-1.el6 ltsp 205 k nc i686 1.84-22.el6 base 56 k pigz i686 2.2.5-1.el6 ltsp 38 k python-decoratortools noarch 1.7-4.1.el6 base 27 k python-deltarpm i686 3.5-0.5.20090913git.el6 base 27 k xorg-x11-xdm i686 1:1.1.6-14.1.el6 base 126 k Transaction Summary ================================================================================ Install 12 Package(s) Upgrade 8 Package(s) Total download size: 5.1 M ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ But I didn't actually do the update because I'm currently on vacation. Thanks you very much for the help. Greetings, J. Op 09-04-13 18:39, Joshua Trimm schreef: > Hello Johan, i've written up some very basic instructions to help get > started at: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/EL6Status the rpm's > are also being pushed to stable in EPEL. I have also started on some > documents that will help guide you through the process that should be > included in the latest RPM's, the files are called README.rpminstall > and QuickInstall-el6. The important thing to note about this upgrade > is that k12linux is become more tightly integrated with ltsp therefore > the repo's are different for the newer versions. 5.2.17 will possibly > remain at http://mplug.org/~k12linux/rpm/el6/ while the newer repo is > located at http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/. So here is > some preliminary (untested) instructions for upgrading. > > 1. rpm -e k12linux-release > 2. rpm --import > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/RPM-GPG-KEY-ltsp > 3. rpm -Uvh > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm > 4. yum clean all > 5. yum update > > Note: iptables/selinux is the reason for most people's issues, disable > those first temporarily to get everything setup. > > That should offer to upgrade your ltsp-server, ltspfs, ldm and other > packages required. I have this tested on EL6.3 and 6.4 with CentOS, > Red Hat and Scientific Linux. If you have any issues feel free to > contact me or shout out to all of us in #ltsp on irc freenode. > > On 4/9/13 2:33 AM, Johan Vermeulen wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> I saw on Facebook that there was an update on 17th of March ( I am >> not subscribed to the announcement list ) >> >> I have k12linux repo enabled on some machines and I'm trying to run >> yum update, that doesn't seem to work. >> >> How to update this? >> >> My current version : >> >> [root at deveder yum.repos.d]# rpm -qa | grep ltsp >> ltsp-server-5.2.17-1.el6.i686 >> ltspfs-0.8-2.el6.i686 >> >> Thanks for any advise. >> >> greetings, J. >> >> Opensource Software is the future. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us Thu Apr 11 18:52:27 2013 From: cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us (Barry Cisna) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 13:52:27 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] IPv6 Message-ID: <1365706347.7697.12.camel@localhost> Hello All, Wanted to find out if anyone on list is running a full blown IPv6 network? I am thinking at this point we should be getting out of the stone age,and attempting an IPv6 network topology for our school. If anyone has implemented this what are the Gotcha's in a real world setting? Thanks, Barry From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Apr 11 19:51:02 2013 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:51:02 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] IPv6 In-Reply-To: <1365706347.7697.12.camel@localhost> References: <1365706347.7697.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Before you go down than (long, dark, twisting, confusing) road (very, very alone), be sure to hit Hurricane Electric and go through the IPv6 training course (free) http://ipv6.he.net/ A long-time colleague who teaches IPv6 security HIGHLY recommends their certification course to get people ready to make sense of IPv6. On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Barry Cisna wrote: > Hello All, > > Wanted to find out if anyone on list is running a full blown IPv6 > network? I am thinking at this point we should be getting out of the > stone age,and attempting an IPv6 network topology for our school. > If anyone has implemented this what are the Gotcha's in a real world > setting? > > Thanks, > Barry > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- -- James P. Kinney III * *Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain * http://electjimkinney.org http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Thu Apr 18 08:48:56 2013 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 04:48:56 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? Message-ID: Hello everyone, I hope you are all doing well today. So every few years the issue of "shouldn't we be running a Windows network?" pops up. It very recently came up again and I'm looking for help on how to tackle it. This is the first time it nearly was mandated and I'd like to be ready with a response. This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The question is coming from the administration -- they have been using Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration of it would be too much effort I fear. I'm looking for any stories, presentations, charts/data/graphs, white papers, case studies, etc. -- Anything you'd use to convince the administration that LTSP is a better choice than Windows / Apple for us. This is a crucial issue so I apologize for cross-posting to the different LTSP-based mailing lists. Thanks very much, Joseph From jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be Thu Apr 18 09:35:16 2013 From: jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be (Johan Vermeulen) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:35:16 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <516FBE54.1050901@cawdekempen.be> Hello Joseph, I work in an organization that runs shelters for the homeless, refuge houses for abused women and so on. We have about 160 people. It was recently calculated that for us, should we be about 300 people, we would gain about 100.000 Euros a year because we are on Linux. Here is your first reason for being on Linux. Further I always like to present it this way: * we have our own 2 servers for our 160 guys, running as mailserver, webserver, database server and ldap server and we have our own guys working on it, some in conjunction with other jobs. We also have volunteers, like yourself That's cheaper than renting servers and services from another group that will maybe give you good or maybe crappy service. * off course we run Linux on those servers, why would we pay for licenses? * it's all downhill from there. Why would you set up Samba to connect with Windows machines when it's much easier to use ssh to communicate with Linux Desktops? I also migrated our admin department, that wasn't easy. I have to say that before I came into the organization, they were already running OpenOffice, which is a big obstacle to take. I convinced them with * expanding the life of there Windows Xp machines, instead of having to buy new ones with Vista. * better and safer backups to the already existing Linux machines. * safer and better sharing of files with the rest of the groups, who were alreay on Linux. Joseph, I really hope this is of some help to you. Let me know how it goes. Greetings, J. Op 18-04-13 10:48, Joseph Bishay schreef: > Hello everyone, > > I hope you are all doing well today. > > So every few years the issue of "shouldn't we be running a Windows > network?" pops up. It very recently came up again and I'm looking for > help on how to tackle it. This is the first time it nearly was > mandated and I'd like to be ready with a response. > > This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The > question is coming from the administration -- they have been using > Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of > inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to > continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration > of it would be too much effort I fear. > > I'm looking for any stories, presentations, charts/data/graphs, white > papers, case studies, etc. -- Anything you'd use to convince the > administration that LTSP is a better choice than Windows / Apple for > us. > > This is a crucial issue so I apologize for cross-posting to the > different LTSP-based mailing lists. > > Thanks very much, > Joseph > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From phanh at canby.k12.or.us Thu Apr 18 15:53:05 2013 From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 08:53:05 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01CE9B22-9DD9-44D6-AD3D-161CF8E2A5A1@canby.k12.or.us> Hello, Joseph We implemented LTSP about 6 years ago when our Windows computer lab became too old. At that time, we either have to spend $40,000 for the desktops plus other necessary equipments to monitor and manage the lab. At the end, we decided to go with LTSP because we can reuse the workstations. We bought two Dell PowerEdge 1950 and have 50 clients boot from them. Benefits: 1. Cost: we spend $10,000 vs ~$50,000 2. Simplified management: one central point to manage user accounts and profiles. Our environment is mostly Mac so the Windows systems were managed manually. This is a great advantage for us. In your case, it going to depend on how comfortable the admin will be in switching to Linux and whether the place already has a system in place to manage Windows systems. 3. Less repair and support: the majority of the work is from the servers, less demand on the workstations. So less breakdown. 4. Replacement: a lot easier to get old donated equipments vs asking to purchase a brand new system. On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:48 AM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I hope you are all doing well today. > > So every few years the issue of "shouldn't we be running a Windows > network?" pops up. It very recently came up again and I'm looking for > help on how to tackle it. This is the first time it nearly was > mandated and I'd like to be ready with a response. > > This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The > question is coming from the administration -- they have been using > Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of > inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to > continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration > of it would be too much effort I fear. > > I'm looking for any stories, presentations, charts/data/graphs, white > papers, case studies, etc. -- Anything you'd use to convince the > administration that LTSP is a better choice than Windows / Apple for > us. > > This is a crucial issue so I apologize for cross-posting to the > different LTSP-based mailing lists. > > Thanks very much, > Joseph > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From william at fragakis.com Fri Apr 19 17:43:55 2013 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 13:43:55 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1366393435.32469.98.camel@server.ltsp> > > This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The > > question is coming from the administration -- they have been using > > Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of > > inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to > > continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration > > of it would be too much effort I fear. > > Joseph, I've been involved with K12LTSP/K12Linux since Fedora 5 (what year was that?) - from a primary school conversion to, today, running my wife's medical practice on K12Linux running Scientific Linux. Stories like mine are pretty common. In reading your post, I'm guessing something else is up than just considering costs, etc. The administration is not only used to Windows but used to the old desktop model of computing. Word processor, a few apps and a browser to look at "educational sites". This reminds me of the resistance we encountered because "everybody uses MS Office at work and kids will need to learn it to get jobs". What people could see was only in their near experience. They'd forgotten how Office supplanted Word Perfect and couldn't imagine something like Writely/Google Docs or even how Office would change it's own interface significantly in future versions. Desktops still have their place but our kids are moving into a world where the "cloud" is their desktop - everything from Google docs to online apps and web sites that do much of the processing done by desktops in the past. Intel's Chromebooks, smart phones, smart TVs and tablets are examples of devices that enable users in the new environment. In my mind, the move to the cloud has made LTSP more, not less, relevant. What is important today is to have an inexpensive web/network-enabled device that is easily configured, supported and managed. LTSP does that; it does it very well. Many of the barriers we had to overcome in the past simply are going away. Proprietary technologies like Flash and Silverlight are dying or dead as the move to smart phones has forced providers to adapt HTML 5 whether they like it or not. Good luck, William From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Apr 19 17:59:50 2013 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 13:59:50 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: <1366393435.32469.98.camel@server.ltsp> References: <1366393435.32469.98.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: To add a concept to Williams experience, LTSP _IS_ a cloud computing environment for schools. It's completely cutting-edge technology that Microsoft wishes it could replicate. And it was invented in 1970. :-) On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 1:43 PM, William Fragakis wrote: > > > > This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The > > > question is coming from the administration -- they have been using > > > Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of > > > inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to > > > continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration > > > of it would be too much effort I fear. > > > > > Joseph, > I've been involved with K12LTSP/K12Linux since Fedora 5 (what year was > that?) - from a primary school conversion to, today, running my wife's > medical practice on K12Linux running Scientific Linux. > > Stories like mine are pretty common. In reading your post, I'm guessing > something else is up than just considering costs, etc. The > administration is not only used to Windows but used to the old desktop > model of computing. Word processor, a few apps and a browser to look at > "educational sites". > > This reminds me of the resistance we encountered because "everybody uses > MS Office at work and kids will need to learn it to get jobs". What > people could see was only in their near experience. They'd forgotten how > Office supplanted Word Perfect and couldn't imagine something like > Writely/Google Docs or even how Office would change it's own interface > significantly in future versions. > > Desktops still have their place but our kids are moving into a world > where the "cloud" is their desktop - everything from Google docs to > online apps and web sites that do much of the processing done by > desktops in the past. Intel's Chromebooks, smart phones, smart TVs and > tablets are examples of devices that enable users in the new > environment. > > In my mind, the move to the cloud has made LTSP more, not less, > relevant. What is important today is to have an inexpensive > web/network-enabled device that is easily configured, supported and > managed. LTSP does that; it does it very well. Many of the barriers we > had to overcome in the past simply are going away. Proprietary > technologies like Flash and Silverlight are dying or dead as the move to > smart phones has forced providers to adapt HTML 5 whether they like it > or not. > > Good luck, > William > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- -- James P. Kinney III * *Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain * http://electjimkinney.org http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Sun Apr 21 19:16:40 2013 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:16:40 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: <516FBE54.1050901@cawdekempen.be> References: <516FBE54.1050901@cawdekempen.be> Message-ID: Hello Johan, Thank you for your reply. How did you calculate that you would save about 100,000 Euros? I'd like to make that same sort of calculation for our own situation. Thanks Joseph On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Johan Vermeulen wrote: > Hello Joseph, > > I work in an organization that runs shelters for the homeless, refuge houses > for abused women and so on. > We have about 160 people. > It was recently calculated that for us, should we be about 300 people, we > would gain about 100.000 Euros a year because we are on Linux. > > Here is your first reason for being on Linux. > > Further I always like to present it this way: > > * we have our own 2 servers for our 160 guys, running as mailserver, > webserver, database server and ldap server and we have our own guys working > on it, some in conjunction with other jobs. We also have volunteers, like > yourself > That's cheaper than renting servers and services from another group that > will maybe give you good or maybe crappy service. > > * off course we run Linux on those servers, why would we pay for licenses? > > * it's all downhill from there. Why would you set up Samba to connect with > Windows machines when it's much easier to use ssh to communicate with Linux > Desktops? > > I also migrated our admin department, that wasn't easy. > I have to say that before I came into the organization, they were already > running OpenOffice, which is a big obstacle to take. > > I convinced them with > > * expanding the life of there Windows Xp machines, instead of having to buy > new ones with Vista. > * better and safer backups to the already existing Linux machines. > * safer and better sharing of files with the rest of the groups, who were > alreay on Linux. > > > Joseph, I really hope this is of some help to you. > > Let me know how it goes. > > Greetings, J. > > > > Op 18-04-13 10:48, Joseph Bishay schreef: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I hope you are all doing well today. >> >> So every few years the issue of "shouldn't we be running a Windows >> network?" pops up. It very recently came up again and I'm looking for >> help on how to tackle it. This is the first time it nearly was >> mandated and I'd like to be ready with a response. >> >> This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The >> question is coming from the administration -- they have been using >> Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of >> inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to >> continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration >> of it would be too much effort I fear. >> >> I'm looking for any stories, presentations, charts/data/graphs, white >> papers, case studies, etc. -- Anything you'd use to convince the >> administration that LTSP is a better choice than Windows / Apple for >> us. >> >> This is a crucial issue so I apologize for cross-posting to the >> different LTSP-based mailing lists. >> >> Thanks very much, >> Joseph >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Sun Apr 21 19:28:27 2013 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:28:27 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: <01CE9B22-9DD9-44D6-AD3D-161CF8E2A5A1@canby.k12.or.us> References: <01CE9B22-9DD9-44D6-AD3D-161CF8E2A5A1@canby.k12.or.us> Message-ID: Good day, Thank you for your reply. We are in a lucky situation in that we just received 60 workstations for free. These are Core 2 Duo machines with 4 GB RAM each and 80 GB drives. So the administration is thinking "well we just saved a lot of money on the hardware, so we can now afford Windows". I tried out the machines and they work perfectly with LTSP but even so that's not going to eliminate this line of reasoning. The other reasons you mentioned are great ones -- especially the centralized management. We don't have any administrators other than myself, and I'm a volunteer. Thanks Joseph On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Hung Phan wrote: > Hello, Joseph > > We implemented LTSP about 6 years ago when our Windows computer lab became too old. At that time, we either have to spend $40,000 for the desktops plus other necessary equipments to monitor and manage the lab. At the end, we decided to go with LTSP because we can reuse the workstations. We bought two Dell PowerEdge 1950 and have 50 clients boot from them. > > Benefits: > 1. Cost: we spend $10,000 vs ~$50,000 > 2. Simplified management: one central point to manage user accounts and profiles. Our environment is mostly Mac so the Windows systems were managed manually. This is a great advantage for us. In your case, it going to depend on how comfortable the admin will be in switching to Linux and whether the place already has a system in place to manage Windows systems. > 3. Less repair and support: the majority of the work is from the servers, less demand on the workstations. So less breakdown. > 4. Replacement: a lot easier to get old donated equipments vs asking to purchase a brand new system. > > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:48 AM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > >> Hello everyone, >> >> I hope you are all doing well today. >> >> So every few years the issue of "shouldn't we be running a Windows >> network?" pops up. It very recently came up again and I'm looking for >> help on how to tackle it. This is the first time it nearly was >> mandated and I'd like to be ready with a response. >> >> This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The >> question is coming from the administration -- they have been using >> Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of >> inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to >> continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration >> of it would be too much effort I fear. >> >> I'm looking for any stories, presentations, charts/data/graphs, white >> papers, case studies, etc. -- Anything you'd use to convince the >> administration that LTSP is a better choice than Windows / Apple for >> us. >> >> This is a crucial issue so I apologize for cross-posting to the >> different LTSP-based mailing lists. >> >> Thanks very much, >> Joseph >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Sun Apr 21 19:41:24 2013 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:41:24 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: <1366393435.32469.98.camel@server.ltsp> References: <1366393435.32469.98.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: Hello William, I'm happy to say I've been running LTSP since K12LTSP prior to version 4.2 based on Fedora Core 3 and it's been phenomenal. I'm starting to wonder if I've been inadvertently shielding everyone from how amazing it is because it's just plug and play so they think a Windows network would be the same. I mean my first machines were so old they were scraping the bottom of the barrel and the CRT monitors had the burned ghost image from their bank software. What a long road it's been! You are right that it's more than just money. I feel there's some sort of concern that LibreOffice isn't compatible 'enough' with MS Office. I know when it comes to report cards for the kids part of the issue is that the teachers are transferring back and forth and the report cards are losing their formatting causing everyone grief. I created standard templates to try to resolve this but it seems like some of the teachers were still breaking it. I'm not sure what else -- the idea 'kids need Word to succeed' as you said is also being floated around. Clearly that's no longer true. Joseph On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 1:43 PM, William Fragakis wrote: > >> > This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The >> > question is coming from the administration -- they have been using >> > Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of >> > inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to >> > continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration >> > of it would be too much effort I fear. >> > > > Joseph, > I've been involved with K12LTSP/K12Linux since Fedora 5 (what year was > that?) - from a primary school conversion to, today, running my wife's > medical practice on K12Linux running Scientific Linux. > > Stories like mine are pretty common. In reading your post, I'm guessing > something else is up than just considering costs, etc. The > administration is not only used to Windows but used to the old desktop > model of computing. Word processor, a few apps and a browser to look at > "educational sites". > > This reminds me of the resistance we encountered because "everybody uses > MS Office at work and kids will need to learn it to get jobs". What > people could see was only in their near experience. They'd forgotten how > Office supplanted Word Perfect and couldn't imagine something like > Writely/Google Docs or even how Office would change it's own interface > significantly in future versions. > > Desktops still have their place but our kids are moving into a world > where the "cloud" is their desktop - everything from Google docs to > online apps and web sites that do much of the processing done by > desktops in the past. Intel's Chromebooks, smart phones, smart TVs and > tablets are examples of devices that enable users in the new > environment. > > In my mind, the move to the cloud has made LTSP more, not less, > relevant. What is important today is to have an inexpensive > web/network-enabled device that is easily configured, supported and > managed. LTSP does that; it does it very well. Many of the barriers we > had to overcome in the past simply are going away. Proprietary > technologies like Flash and Silverlight are dying or dead as the move to > smart phones has forced providers to adapt HTML 5 whether they like it > or not. > > Good luck, > William > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au Mon Apr 22 00:47:16 2013 From: pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au (Paul Mulroney) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 08:47:16 +0800 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joshua, I have a CentOS 6.4 server that was running LTSP 5.2.17(?) successfully. I ran yum update, and didn't notice that it upgraded LTSP to 5.4.5. Now the diskless workstations won't login to the server. They boot and get to a login screen, but when the user puts in their credentials they get a "no response from server, restarting". In trying to resolve this issue I have followed these instructions below, and now the ltsp-build-client fails with some sort of python error. I also setup a test system, did a fresh install of Cent OS 6.4 and then followed your instructions below, and ltsp-build-client still fails with the same error. I'm not sure where to start with debugging this, can you offer any suggestions? Regards, Paul. On 11/04/2013, at 12:00 AM, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Hello Joshua, > > i've tested this; this seems to work. > > rpm -Uvh > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm > > gave me > > Retrieving > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm > curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found > fout: skipping > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm - > transfer failed > > but I downloaded the rpm from the site. Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes. (Geeky One Line Jokes http://bit.ly/XU8lFD) -- Paul W. Mulroney Logical Developments pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au 86 Coolgardie Street www.logicaldevelopments.com.au BENTLEY WA 6102 Ph: +61 8 9458 3889 Fax: +61 8 9458 2169 From william at fragakis.com Mon Apr 22 17:05:59 2013 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 13:05:59 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1366650359.32469.190.camel@server.ltsp> Joseph Not to detract from the wonderfulness that is LTSP, I hope you are also aware of this: DRBL http://drbl.sourceforge.net/ Last thing (and I know I'm preaching to the converted): One thing school (non-technical) administrators forget is that the Windows license is just for the OS. At the point you have an empty toolbox and pricey one at that. There are no tools. Each tool in the Windows world, typically, has it's own license that must be paid for. Compare that bare Windows box with a full-featured Linux desktop box with Libre Office, GIMP, Stellarium, Celestia, LMMS, Audacity, Childsplay, GCompris, Tux Paint, Blender, etc. Then most traditionalists will spend for Symantec bloatware and some proprietary firewall (which in our case was a $2000 box actually running Fedora underneath). Now, price in all the administration tools - authentication servers, web servers, mail servers, database servers, firewalls. Sure, there are Windows versions of many of these programs (e.g. LibreOffice) but why pay for Windows to run the same program you can run on Linux? For those who insist on Microsoft Word as a mandatory requirement, you might kiddingly ask them how the students are ever going to learn how to use Google Docs for when they do a collaborative project in college. Having 60 workstations with 60 hard drives means a lot of possible points for hardware failure. Small hard drives are still ridiculously expensive (a 160gb HD and 1 TB aren't that much different in price) compared to other hardware and 3-5 yr old hard drives are just waiting to throw bad sectors if they aren't already failing SMART tests. You have to manage 60 software installs - that's always a lot of fun (no, it's not) when you install a new program and very expensive in terms of time. All the best, William On Mon, 2013-04-22 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > From: Joseph Bishay > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Good day, > > Thank you for your reply. > > We are in a lucky situation in that we just received 60 workstations > for free. These are Core 2 Duo machines with 4 GB RAM each and 80 GB > drives. So the administration is thinking "well we just saved a lot > of money on the hardware, so we can now afford Windows". > > I tried out the machines and they work perfectly with LTSP but even so > that's not going to eliminate this line of reasoning. > > The other reasons you mentioned are great ones -- especially the > centralized management. We don't have any administrators other than > myself, and I'm a volunteer. > > Thanks > Joseph From enslaver at enslaver.com Mon Apr 22 17:21:05 2013 From: enslaver at enslaver.com (Joshua Trimm) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:21:05 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51757181.6050803@enslaver.com> Paul, The website instructions are undergoing a bit of a change-around while I get everything organized. The most up to date installation instructions will always be found at this link: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Category:Fedora On 4/21/13 7:47 PM, Paul Mulroney wrote: > Hi Joshua, > > I have a CentOS 6.4 server that was running LTSP 5.2.17(?) successfully. I ran yum update, and didn't notice that it upgraded LTSP to 5.4.5. Now the diskless workstations won't login to the server. They boot and get to a login screen, but when the user puts in their credentials they get a "no response from server, restarting". > > In trying to resolve this issue I have followed these instructions below, and now the ltsp-build-client fails with some sort of python error. > > I also setup a test system, did a fresh install of Cent OS 6.4 and then followed your instructions below, and ltsp-build-client still fails with the same error. > > I'm not sure where to start with debugging this, can you offer any suggestions? > > Regards, > Paul. > > > On 11/04/2013, at 12:00 AM, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > >> Hello Joshua, >> >> i've tested this; this seems to work. >> >> rpm -Uvh >> http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm >> >> gave me >> >> Retrieving >> http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm >> curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found >> fout: skipping >> http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm - >> transfer failed >> >> but I downloaded the rpm from the site. > > Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes. > (Geeky One Line Jokes http://bit.ly/XU8lFD) From jessemcdonnell at verizon.net Mon Apr 22 22:26:57 2013 From: jessemcdonnell at verizon.net (Jesse McDonnell) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 18:26:57 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] asus netbook as fat client? Message-ID: <20130422182657.4eaa0696.jessemcdonnell@verizon.net> I've been running a Term 150 as a client with a Centos 5.3 LTSP server for some years now and it has worked very well. But, I'm getting the itch to upgrade and intend to use an Asus 1000HE with a USB keyboard and mouse as a fat client hooked up to a 19" LCD. Is PXE booting for the Atheros NIC supported in the LTSP 5? I tried it with my setup (version 4.2) but the nic doesn't appear to be supported - it gives a kernel panic even even after specifying the chipset (AR8121) in dhcp.conf. Anyone using a netbook? Anything to watch out for? Jesse From cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us Tue Apr 23 12:36:42 2013 From: cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us (Barry Cisna) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 07:36:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] asus netbook as fat client? Message-ID: <1366720603.21733.5.camel@localhost> Jesse, Yes the Asus Netbooks will work with ltsp 5 / SL6 out of the box. The (newer) ltsp5 / SL6 has support for many of the newer onboard nics,on various mobo's. Take Care, Barry From jomegat at jomegat.com Tue Apr 23 13:24:14 2013 From: jomegat at jomegat.com (Jomegat) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:24:14 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51768B7E.5000707@jomegat.com> I ran into that a couple of years ago. I too am a volunteer sysadmin, and the only one doing it for our school. I do not know how to maintain a Windows network, and I told them so. If they wanted to go with Windows, they were going to have to find another volunteer - not because I hated Windows (which I do) but because I did not possess the necessary competence to maintain it. I also told them the task would be much more difficult: *Maintain individual workstations+hard drives vs a single server *Software updates would be N times as much work, where N=number of workstations. *Malware - kids are not great at resisting even the most rudimentary social engineering tricks. "I was the millionth visitor to the website? Cool! Click!" We've never had a single instance of malware at our school, except for the teacher's personal Windows laptop. I asked if there was anyone on the school board who had not been hit by malware themselves, and there were none. The argument was that if savvy adults such as themselves were unable to thwart malware, what chance did the kids have? In spite of my arguments, they had a consultant come in and price what it would cost to switch us out. It was way more money than we had, and I suppose that's what saved the day in the end. They also realized that switching would not give them any advantages or capabilities they did not already have for free. Another thing to consider is that Windows 8 has driven PC sales through the floor. People are abandoning Windows in droves, so why would you want to switch to a sinking ship? http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/research-firm-pc-sales-plunge-windows-flops-18926235#.UWX6sRlAv1I The world is moving away from the desktop and towards the cloud. THAT is the wave of the future, and LTSP has been riding that wave for at least 15 years (probably more - I've been using it for 15 years). I hope this helps. It's very disconcerting to watch people try to disassemble all the free work you've done for them for years. On 04/18/2013 04:48 AM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I hope you are all doing well today. > > So every few years the issue of "shouldn't we be running a Windows > network?" pops up. It very recently came up again and I'm looking for > help on how to tackle it. This is the first time it nearly was > mandated and I'd like to be ready with a response. > > This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The > question is coming from the administration -- they have been using > Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of > inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to > continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration > of it would be too much effort I fear. > > I'm looking for any stories, presentations, charts/data/graphs, white > papers, case studies, etc. -- Anything you'd use to convince the > administration that LTSP is a better choice than Windows / Apple for > us. > > This is a crucial issue so I apologize for cross-posting to the > different LTSP-based mailing lists. > > Thanks very much, > Joseph > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- Jim Thomas (a.k.a. J Omega T) jomegat at jomegat.com If your knees aren't green by the end of the day, you ought to seriously re-examine your life. - Calvin From jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be Tue Apr 23 15:45:53 2013 From: jvermeulen at cawdekempen.be (Johan Vermeulen) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:45:53 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Any LTSP/Linux ideas? In-Reply-To: References: <516FBE54.1050901@cawdekempen.be> Message-ID: <5176ACB1.5030904@cawdekempen.be> Hello Joseph, over here every legal district has it's own social benefit organization, so far we all choose our own it-path. Because there is a merge of one district that uses Linux and ltsp with two districts that use Windows, the calculation was made how much it would cost for the new org the Windows way or the Linux way. I guess the calculation was made by the Linux -side and is subjective. But the Linux-boys made it. I think the big difference in the cost is doing-it-all-yourself (with the help of volunteers ) vs renting-someone-to-solve-your-problems and some rent complete networks from a provider or Dell, while we use OpenVpn to connect different locations. I think this discussion is very interesting and refreshing. I certainly have much less experience than a lot of people on the list. I too would have to pack it in if my group would switch to Windows, because I don't have the knowledge. I always assumed that there was a Windows ltsp alternative that I didn't know about. Reading the different posts I guess there isn't. Which is a good thing. Greetings, J. Op 21-04-13 21:16, Joseph Bishay schreef: > Hello Johan, > > Thank you for your reply. > > How did you calculate that you would save about 100,000 Euros? I'd > like to make that same sort of calculation for our own situation. > > Thanks > Joseph > > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Johan Vermeulen > wrote: >> Hello Joseph, >> >> I work in an organization that runs shelters for the homeless, refuge houses >> for abused women and so on. >> We have about 160 people. >> It was recently calculated that for us, should we be about 300 people, we >> would gain about 100.000 Euros a year because we are on Linux. >> >> Here is your first reason for being on Linux. >> >> Further I always like to present it this way: >> >> * we have our own 2 servers for our 160 guys, running as mailserver, >> webserver, database server and ldap server and we have our own guys working >> on it, some in conjunction with other jobs. We also have volunteers, like >> yourself >> That's cheaper than renting servers and services from another group that >> will maybe give you good or maybe crappy service. >> >> * off course we run Linux on those servers, why would we pay for licenses? >> >> * it's all downhill from there. Why would you set up Samba to connect with >> Windows machines when it's much easier to use ssh to communicate with Linux >> Desktops? >> >> I also migrated our admin department, that wasn't easy. >> I have to say that before I came into the organization, they were already >> running OpenOffice, which is a big obstacle to take. >> >> I convinced them with >> >> * expanding the life of there Windows Xp machines, instead of having to buy >> new ones with Vista. >> * better and safer backups to the already existing Linux machines. >> * safer and better sharing of files with the rest of the groups, who were >> alreay on Linux. >> >> >> Joseph, I really hope this is of some help to you. >> >> Let me know how it goes. >> >> Greetings, J. >> >> >> >> Op 18-04-13 10:48, Joseph Bishay schreef: >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I hope you are all doing well today. >>> >>> So every few years the issue of "shouldn't we be running a Windows >>> network?" pops up. It very recently came up again and I'm looking for >>> help on how to tackle it. This is the first time it nearly was >>> mandated and I'd like to be ready with a response. >>> >>> This is a school environment with about 60 desktop computers. The >>> question is coming from the administration -- they have been using >>> Windows since the 3.11 days and so I believe it's just a matter of >>> inertia. I am also a volunteer and I'm not really sure if I'd like to >>> continue as a volunteer if they do switch over -- the administration >>> of it would be too much effort I fear. >>> >>> I'm looking for any stories, presentations, charts/data/graphs, white >>> papers, case studies, etc. -- Anything you'd use to convince the >>> administration that LTSP is a better choice than Windows / Apple for >>> us. >>> >>> This is a crucial issue so I apologize for cross-posting to the >>> different LTSP-based mailing lists. >>> >>> Thanks very much, >>> Joseph >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au Wed Apr 24 01:26:48 2013 From: pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au (Paul Mulroney) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:26:48 +0800 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joshua Thanks for your email. I was able to roll back to 5.2.17 and they're up and running again. When I get a chance, I'll try the instructions below as per the wiki: > rpm --import http://ltsprepo.s3.amazonaws.com/rpm/RPM-GPG-KEY-ltsp > > rpm -Uvh > http://ltsprepo.s3.amazonaws.com/rpm/el6/x86_64/ltsp-release-5-9.el6.noarch.rpm > > yum install ltsp-server > Edit config files in /etc/ltsp/ > ltsp-build-client > Read the docs!! Regards, Paul. On 24/04/2013, at 12:00 AM, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Paul, > The website instructions are undergoing a bit of a change-around > while I get everything organized. The most up to date installation > instructions will always be found at this link: > > http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Category:Fedora > > > On 4/21/13 7:47 PM, Paul Mulroney wrote: >> Hi Joshua, >> >> I have a CentOS 6.4 server that was running LTSP 5.2.17(?) successfully. I ran yum update, and didn't notice that it upgraded LTSP to 5.4.5. Now the diskless workstations won't login to the server. They boot and get to a login screen, but when the user puts in their credentials they get a "no response from server, restarting". >> >> In trying to resolve this issue I have followed these instructions below, and now the ltsp-build-client fails with some sort of python error. >> >> I also setup a test system, did a fresh install of Cent OS 6.4 and then followed your instructions below, and ltsp-build-client still fails with the same error. >> >> I'm not sure where to start with debugging this, can you offer any suggestions? >> >> Regards, >> Paul. "Beware of half truths... you may get the wrong half." @funnyoneliners on twitter -- Paul W. Mulroney Logical Developments pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au 86 Coolgardie Street www.logicaldevelopments.com.au BENTLEY WA 6102 Ph: +61 8 9458 3889 Fax: +61 8 9458 2169 From v21networks at gmail.com Wed Apr 24 02:51:08 2013 From: v21networks at gmail.com (Eddie Bonifacio Yanguas-Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 22:51:08 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joshua, I thought it was just I having the issue LTSP. Look forward to the responses. I did not get the error for LTSP until I solved the DNS issue first. All this after a major yum update after from 6.3 to 6.4. Ed On Apr 21, 2013 8:51 PM, "Paul Mulroney" < pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au> wrote: > Hi Joshua, > > I have a CentOS 6.4 server that was running LTSP 5.2.17(?) successfully. > I ran yum update, and didn't notice that it upgraded LTSP to 5.4.5. Now > the diskless workstations won't login to the server. They boot and get to > a login screen, but when the user puts in their credentials they get a "no > response from server, restarting". > > In trying to resolve this issue I have followed these instructions below, > and now the ltsp-build-client fails with some sort of python error. > > I also setup a test system, did a fresh install of Cent OS 6.4 and then > followed your instructions below, and ltsp-build-client still fails with > the same error. > > I'm not sure where to start with debugging this, can you offer any > suggestions? > > Regards, > Paul. > > > On 11/04/2013, at 12:00 AM, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > > > Hello Joshua, > > > > i've tested this; this seems to work. > > > > rpm -Uvh > > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm > > > > gave me > > > > Retrieving > > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm > > curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found > > fout: skipping > > http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm - > > transfer failed > > > > but I downloaded the rpm from the site. > > > Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes. > (Geeky One Line Jokes http://bit.ly/XU8lFD) > -- > Paul W. Mulroney > Logical Developments > pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au 86 Coolgardie Street > www.logicaldevelopments.com.au BENTLEY WA 6102 > Ph: +61 8 9458 3889 Fax: +61 > 8 9458 2169 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From redtex at mail.ru Wed Apr 24 07:07:20 2013 From: redtex at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?V2FkaW0gSW5jb2duaXRv?=) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 11:07:20 +0400 Subject: [K12OSN] =?utf-8?q?howto_update?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru> Hi Paul. I've run in such issue, and the solution is to update chroot (/opt/ltsp/i386) to CentOS 6.4 After that, the problem with login is gone. Regards, Vadim. ???????????, 22 ?????? 2013, 8:47 +08:00 ?? Paul Mulroney : >Hi Joshua, > >I have a CentOS 6.4 server that was running LTSP 5.2.17(?) successfully. I ran yum update, and didn't notice that it upgraded LTSP to 5.4.5. Now the diskless workstations won't login to the server. They boot and get to a login screen, but when the user puts in their credentials they get a "no response from server, restarting". > >In trying to resolve this issue I have followed these instructions below, and now the ltsp-build-client fails with some sort of python error. > >I also setup a test system, did a fresh install of Cent OS 6.4 and then followed your instructions below, and ltsp-build-client still fails with the same error. > >I'm not sure where to start with debugging this, can you offer any suggestions? > >Regards, >Paul. > > >On 11/04/2013, at 12:00 AM, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > >> Hello Joshua, >> >> i've tested this; this seems to work. >> >> rpm -Uvh >> http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm >> >> gave me >> >> Retrieving >> http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm >> curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found >> fout: skipping >> http://mirror.ancl.hawaii.edu/~k12linux/rpm/ltsp-release-5.noarch.rpm - >> transfer failed >> >> but I downloaded the rpm from the site. > > >Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes. >(Geeky One Line Jokes http://bit.ly/XU8lFD ) >-- >Paul W. Mulroney Logical Developments >pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au 86 Coolgardie Street >www.logicaldevelopments.com.au BENTLEY WA 6102 >Ph: +61 8 9458 3889 Fax: +61 8 9458 2169 > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >K12OSN mailing list >K12OSN at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >For more info see < http://www.k12os.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From enslaver at enslaver.com Wed Apr 24 13:44:50 2013 From: enslaver at enslaver.com (Joshua Trimm) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:44:50 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru> References: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <5177E1D2.4070304@enslaver.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drknght at excite.com Wed Apr 24 17:21:53 2013 From: drknght at excite.com (Michael G. Tracey) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:21:53 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] How do I get to the english site if there is one??? Message-ID: <20130424132153.8568@web003.roc2.bluetie.com> How do I get to the english site if there is one??? I have been on the site and attempted to change character encoding to no effect. MGT From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Apr 24 18:10:06 2013 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 14:10:06 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] How do I get to the english site if there is one??? In-Reply-To: <20130424132153.8568@web003.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20130424132153.8568@web003.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: That looks like the domain has an issue that needs immediate attention. That is NOT the k12os.org site! dig k12os.org ; <<>> DiG 9.3.6-P1-RedHat-9.3.6-20.P1.el5_8.5 <<>> k12os.org ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 19323 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;k12os.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: k12os.org. 3600 IN A 219.94.129.179 ;; Query time: 261 msec ;; SERVER: 170.140.1.1#53(170.140.1.1) ;; WHEN: Wed Apr 24 14:08:50 2013 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 43 dig -x 219.94.129.179 ; <<>> DiG 9.3.6-P1-RedHat-9.3.6-20.P1.el5_8.5 <<>> -x 219.94.129.179 ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6906 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;179.129.94.219.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR ;; ANSWER SECTION: 179.129.94.219.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN PTR www1139.sakura.ne.jp. ;; Query time: 467 msec ;; SERVER: 170.140.1.1#53(170.140.1.1) ;; WHEN: Wed Apr 24 14:08:59 2013 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 79 whois k12os.org [Querying whois.publicinterestregistry.net] [whois.publicinterestregistry.net] Access to .ORG WHOIS information is provided to assist persons in determining the contents of a domain name registration record in the Public Interest Registry registry database. The data in this record is provided by Public Interest Registry for informational purposes only, and Public Interest Registry does not guarantee its accuracy. This service is intended only for query-based access. You agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to: (a) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission by e-mail, telephone, or facsimile of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations to entities other than the data recipient's own existing customers; or (b) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that send queries or data to the systems of Registry Operator, a Registrar, or Afilias except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or modify existing registrations. All rights reserved. Public Interest Registry reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting this query, you agree to abide by this policy. Domain ID:D164758308-LROR Domain Name:K12OS.ORG Created On:19-Feb-2012 14:30:35 UTC Last Updated On:20-Aug-2012 08:20:11 UTC Expiration Date:19-Feb-2014 14:30:35 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR) Status:OK Registrant ID:5f25544b471d2f04 Registrant Name:Whois Privacy Protection Service by VALUE-DOMAIN Registrant Organization:Whois Privacy Protection Service by VALUE-DOMAIN Registrant Street1:Chuo-ku Minamisenba 3-1-8 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Osaka Registrant State/Province:Osaka Registrant Postal Code:542-0081 Registrant Country:JP Registrant Phone:+81.662416585 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX:+81.662416586 Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:whoisproxy at value-domain.com Admin ID:5f25544b471d2f04 Admin Name:Whois Privacy Protection Service by VALUE-DOMAIN Admin Organization:Whois Privacy Protection Service by VALUE-DOMAIN Admin Street1:Chuo-ku Minamisenba 3-1-8 Admin Street2: Admin Street3: Admin City:Osaka Admin State/Province:Osaka Admin Postal Code:542-0081 Admin Country:JP Admin Phone:+81.662416585 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX:+81.662416586 Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:whoisproxy at value-domain.com Tech ID:5f25544b471d2f04 Tech Name:Whois Privacy Protection Service by VALUE-DOMAIN Tech Organization:Whois Privacy Protection Service by VALUE-DOMAIN Tech Street1:Chuo-ku Minamisenba 3-1-8 Tech Street2: Tech Street3: Tech City:Osaka Tech State/Province:Osaka Tech Postal Code:542-0081 Tech Country:JP Tech Phone:+81.662416585 Tech Phone Ext.: Tech FAX:+81.662416586 Tech FAX Ext.: Tech Email:whoisproxy at value-domain.com Name Server:NS1.DNS.NE.JP Name Server:NS2.DNS.NE.JP Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: DNSSEC:Unsigned On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Michael G. Tracey wrote: > How do I get to the english site if there is one??? > > I have been on the site and attempted to change character encoding to no > effect. > > MGT > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- -- James P. Kinney III * *Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain * http://electjimkinney.org http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jessemcdonnell at verizon.net Thu Apr 25 09:50:01 2013 From: jessemcdonnell at verizon.net (Jesse McDonnell) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 05:50:01 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] asus netbook as fat client? In-Reply-To: <1366720603.21733.5.camel@localhost> References: <1366720603.21733.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20130425055001.2d5bfb8b.jessemcdonnell@verizon.net> On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 07:36:42 -0500 Barry Cisna wrote: > Jesse, > > Yes the Asus Netbooks will work with ltsp 5 / SL6 out of the box. > The (newer) ltsp5 / SL6 has support for many of the newer onboard > nics,on various mobo's. Barry, That's good to hear. I upgraded the netbook to Lubunto 12.10 and it runs pretty good. At the moment, I'm thinking of setting up nxserver and nomachine on the netbook - it will give fat client local apps and thin client access and the fact that it will also work over wireless is a huge plus in terms of convenience. Best regards, Jesse McDonnell From news at siddall.name Thu Apr 25 19:38:05 2013 From: news at siddall.name (Jeff Siddall) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:38:05 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] howto update In-Reply-To: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru> References: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <5179861D.3020707@siddall.name> On 04/24/2013 03:07 AM, Wadim Incognito wrote: > Hi Paul. > > I've run in such issue, and the solution is to update chroot > (/opt/ltsp/i386) to CentOS 6.4 After that, the problem with login is gone. I did a full update on my chroot _except_ for ltsp-client, which is still at ltsp-client-5.2.17-1.el6.i686 However, even after running ltsp-update-sshkeys I still cannot get logged in. LDM reports "no response from server". So it appears there is something bad in ldm-2.2.11-3.el6.i686 which I believe came from epel. I also noticed most of the session choices disappeared from that version of LDM. Reverting to ldm-2.2.4-1.el6.i686 from the old k12linux repo seems to have fixed it and I can login again. I should point out I did _not_ upgrade the ltsp-server package. Joshua, Is this something you are working on? It is a bad thing to have a serious regression in a package that is part of widely used repositories so removing that for now would probably be wise. Thanks, Jeff From donais at telupton.com Sat Apr 27 04:16:33 2013 From: donais at telupton.com (Michel Donais) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 00:16:33 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] lost my graphical login References: <1358308227.32325.23.camel@server1.eazylivin.net> Message-ID: <2DE1543BEB134789AA80D24A589648CD@IBM5864489F0F4> server Centos 5.9 When I setted up the server I was able to login graphical. Ltsp 4.2 have been installed to night and now it's impossible to login graphical, even if in/etc/inittab runlevel is set to 5 on an other end the server was running KDE it's now running Gnome and no way in the preference i see the possibility to switch KDE. Any iea to solve the ituation? --- Michel Donais From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sat Apr 27 04:56:14 2013 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 00:56:14 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] lost my graphical login In-Reply-To: <2DE1543BEB134789AA80D24A589648CD@IBM5864489F0F4> References: <1358308227.32325.23.camel@server1.eazylivin.net> <2DE1543BEB134789AA80D24A589648CD@IBM5864489F0F4> Message-ID: You need the kdm package instead of gnome gdm. Also look at the switchdesk tool to change between kde and gnome desktop. On Apr 27, 2013 12:47 AM, "Michel Donais" wrote: > server Centos 5.9 > When I setted up the server I was able to login graphical. > Ltsp 4.2 have been installed to night and now it's impossible to login > graphical, even if in/etc/inittab runlevel is set to 5 > on an other end the server was running KDE it's now running Gnome and no > way in the preference i see the possibility to switch KDE. > > Any iea to solve the ituation? > > > --- > Michel Donais > ______________________________**_________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/**mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donais at telupton.com Sat Apr 27 06:00:50 2013 From: donais at telupton.com (Michel Donais) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 02:00:50 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] lost my graphical login References: <1358308227.32325.23.camel@server1.eazylivin.net><2DE1543BEB134789AA80D24A589648CD@IBM5864489F0F4> Message-ID: >You need the kdm package instead of gnome gdm. Also look at the switchdesk >tool to change between kde and gnome desktop. Thank's Jim, I succeded to switch back to KDE But I'm still looking to the following problem: When I setted up the server I was able to login graphical. Ltsp 4.2 have been installed to night and now it's impossible to login graphical, even if in/etc/inittab runlevel is set to 5 --- Michel Donais From donais at telupton.com Sat Apr 27 06:24:02 2013 From: donais at telupton.com (Michel Donais) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 02:24:02 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] iptables References: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru> <5179861D.3020707@siddall.name> Message-ID: Centos 5.9 I'm setting up a server with 10 thin clients who will have to access internet. I'm stuck with iptables Actually, the thin clients and the server can communicate; in between. the server can go to the wan but not the thin clients. lan address 192.168.0.100 to 109 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.0.254 server: lan nic 192.168.0.254 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.0.254 server: wan nic 192.168.2.210 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.2.1 router: 192.168.2.1 255.255.255.0 gw our fix addres Can somebody gives some clues. --- Michel Donais From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sat Apr 27 12:33:05 2013 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 08:33:05 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] iptables In-Reply-To: References: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru> <5179861D.3020707@siddall.name> Message-ID: echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipc4/ip_forward and edit /etc/sysctl.conf and make the change permanent there with a setting of 1 for ip_forward. On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Michel Donais wrote: > Centos 5.9 > I'm setting up a server with 10 thin clients who will have to access > internet. > I'm stuck with iptables > Actually, the thin clients and the server can communicate; in between. > the server can go to the wan but not the thin clients. > > lan address 192.168.0.100 to 109 255.255.255.0 > gw 192.168.0.254 > server: lan nic 192.168.0.254 255.255.255.0 gw > 192.168.0.254 > server: wan nic 192.168.2.210 255.255.255.0 gw > 192.168.2.1 > router: 192.168.2.1 255.255.255.0 gw > our fix addres > > > Can somebody gives some clues. > > > --- > Michel Donais > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/**mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- -- James P. Kinney III * *Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain * http://electjimkinney.org http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donais at telupton.com Sat Apr 27 15:33:47 2013 From: donais at telupton.com (Michel Donais) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:33:47 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] iptables References: <1366787240.559559309@f432.i.mail.ru><5179861D.3020707@siddall.name> Message-ID: Thanks Jim to care my request, echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipc4/ip_forward I don't have /proc/sys/net/ipc4/ip_forward but ipv_4 instead in /etc/sysctl.conf net.ipv4.ipv_forward is already at 1 and it's not working --- Michel Donais From burke at thealmquists.net Sat Apr 27 15:43:11 2013 From: burke at thealmquists.net (burke at thealmquists.net) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 10:43:11 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] iptables Message-ID: Isn't there a service that turns this on and off? Michel Donais wrote: >Thanks Jim to care my request, > >echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipc4/ip_forward > >I don't have /proc/sys/net/ipc4/ip_forward but ipv_4 instead > >in /etc/sysctl.conf net.ipv4.ipv_forward is already at 1 > >and it's not working > > > >--- >Michel Donais > > >_______________________________________________ >K12OSN mailing list >K12OSN at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >For more info see From donais at telupton.com Sat Apr 27 15:44:51 2013 From: donais at telupton.com (michel) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:44:51 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] iptables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201304271144.51879.donais@telupton.com> On Saturday 27 April 2013 11:33, Michel Donais wrote: > Thanks Jim to care my request, Here is my iptables -L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:domain ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:domain ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:bootps ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:bootps ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:domain ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:domain ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:bootps ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:bootps RH-Firewall-1-INPUT all -- anywhere anywhere Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT all -- anywhere 192.168.122.0/24 state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT all -- 192.168.122.0/24 anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere REJECT all -- anywhere anywhere reject-with icmp-port-unreachable REJECT all -- anywhere anywhere reject-with icmp-port-unreachable ACCEPT all -- anywhere 192.168.122.0/24 state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT all -- 192.168.122.0/24 anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere REJECT all -- anywhere anywhere reject-with icmp-port-unreachable REJECT all -- anywhere anywhere reject-with icmp-port-unreachable RH-Firewall-1-INPUT all -- anywhere anywhere Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination Chain RH-Firewall-1-INPUT (2 references) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT icmp -- anywhere anywhere icmp any ACCEPT esp -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT ah -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT udp -- anywhere 224.0.0.251 udp dpt:mdns ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:ipp ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ipp ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere state NEW tcp dpt:ssh REJECT all -- anywhere anywhere reject-with icmp-host-prohibited ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Michel Donais From donais at telupton.com Sat Apr 27 15:53:19 2013 From: donais at telupton.com (michel) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:53:19 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] iptables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201304271153.19578.donais@telupton.com> On Saturday 27 April 2013 11:43, burke at thealmquists.net wrote: > Isn't there a service that turns this on and off? net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1 in /etc/sysctl.conf tur on packet forwarding at boot /sbin/sysctl net.ipv4.ip_forward net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1 tell it's on -- Michel Donais From me at todhackett.com Mon Apr 29 19:38:45 2013 From: me at todhackett.com (me) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:38:45 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] iptables In-Reply-To: <201304271144.51879.donais@telupton.com> References: <201304271144.51879.donais@telupton.com> Message-ID: <20130429192621.M52475@todhackett.com> On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:44:51 -0400, michel wrote > On Saturday 27 April 2013 11:33, Michel Donais wrote: > > Thanks Jim to care my request, > > Here is my iptables -L [snip] 192.168.0.100 - 192.168.0.109 needs to be masqueraded or dnat'd through 192.168.2.210 If you are worried about people on your local wan ( 192.168.2.210 ) getting to the TC's or terminal server then keep your current rules ( but add Masq, or Dnat ). If you are not worried, set everything: input -i eth? -j ACCEPT forward -i eth? -j ACCEPT output -o eth? -j ACCEPT to keep stuff simple. You just need to add a 'prerouting' statement. -t nat -A PREROUTING -o eth(192.168.2.210 is on ) -j MASQUERADE I don't remember the dnat syntax just now. www.netfilter.com for syntax -- Todd Hackett Chief Bottle Washer PoBox 1168 Libby, MT 59923 406.291.6241