<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8"> <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="GtkHTML/3.16.3"> </HEAD> <BODY> Wasn't meant to insult, only point out the facts as I see them, and obviously as others see them, reference the original web link comments. As I said in my original message, show me an SBS "equivalent" or one that even comes close that works out of the box and I'll eat my words. Don't tell me what you think, tell me which one is as good or better than SBS out of the box. BTW, I'm aware of SME Server, ClarkConnect, eBox, SUSE's rendition, and a host of other talk about SBS, like that on Ubuntu. But again, show me one, just one that works out of the box. While you are at it, show me an equivalent to Visio in Linux, one that even comes close, please... This application is the most popular voice/data network documentation tool used in the IT industry. The best that Linux has is DIA? On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 11:25 -0600, David L. Willson wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <PRE> ... > obviously not basing their opinion on fact. Pretty insulting language, there. I think Linux is as ready for the desktop as say, MacOS, and I'm basing that on fact, AFAIK. > I have been using Linux exclusively as my desktop platform for the > past two years (willing to work through and around Linux desktop's > shot comings) and can tell you honestly that there are a lot of > shortcomings in Linux as a desktop client. Note that I have used > CentOS, Fedora, and Ubuntu for the last four plus releases, as well as > deployed K12LTSP and K12Linux in school labs for the past two plus > years, so I have had extensive experience with the usability as well > as issues with Linux. Same here, but longer. > Continuing to blindly favor and praise Linux desktop solely because of > ones prejudices against Microsoft is foolishness ... Again, pretty insulting language. Isn't there a guide somewhere to intelligently dissenting without insulting? > cause Linux to not address it's weaknesses and enhance it's usability > for desktop users. Out of the box experience, what 90% of the > computing user world experiences, determines their preferences, and if > they have to go through Linux setup/configuration Hell to do it, guess > what, they won't. Look at the statistics for the number of returned > Linux based Netbook PCs vs Windows XP based Netbook PCs, that alone > should tell us something. 'that people want a McComputer? That's what I get from it. And, where are those statistics, so that I can look at them? And what Linux setup/configuration Hell are you talking about? Do people build their own Windows PCs, and it's easier, or something? I've done both many, many, many times, and they seem pretty similar in terms of complexity. Linux compensates for the fact that Windows is on the box already, Windows destroys Linux's ability to boot. Which is more Hellish? > It is in Linux best interest to seriously tune and optimize their > desktop offerings. Secondly, Linux seriously needs a Small Business > Server platform that competes with Microsoft's SBS. Continuing to > ignore these two key areas will continue to be Linux Achilles heel to > wider adoption. Linux has no best interest. The Linux community, or Free software community, if you prefer, is a bunch of people and groups, each with their own drivers. Many, but not all, of those people, are interested in the things you infer that "Linux" is interested in, and they are doing exactly what you suggest already. Read Shuttleworth's blog or the Ubuntu weekly news or the Fedora weekly news or the OpenSUSE equivalent. You'll see. Others in the community couldn't care less whether new users make the switch; they only care about the quality of Linux, not it's attractive-ness to Joe or Jane Windows-user as a design goal. I think that's where Red Hat is. They're happy serving Linux users, and staying true to the Free software thing, and being profitable, and that seems to be enough to worry about. Have you checked out Zimbra? And, I think there a Linux SBS project out there somewhere, and Ubuntu/eBox/et al really are doing a lot to commoditize the more common server functions... > On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 10:00 -0600, David L. Willson wrote: > > I resemble that. For my part, I think Linux is completely ready for > the desktop, but I'm not sure that the users are ready and I'm not > sure that IT people are as ready as they think they are. So, my > general-purpose advice is this: Go ahead and pilot Linux on the > desktop, with an eye toward full deployment, but make darn sure you > have a safety net: a Windows Terminal Server, a Virtual Machine, or a > dual-boot handy for anything you might have overlooked. Working > without a net is bad geekery. It scares users, and it should. Be > humble. Serve the users that feed you. Study as hard as you can. > Never, ever attack people, even when they're being "stupid" and > "deserve it". --David ----- "Terrell Prude' Jr." < > <A HREF="mailto:microman@cmosnetworks.com">microman@cmosnetworks.com</A> > wrote: > He's only done part of his > homework. And some of those "points" are > just plain wrong. I smell > an MCSE at work there.... > > --TP > > Alan Hodson wrote: > > Check > out Tashkinov's article: > > <A HREF="http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.html">http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.html</A> > > > Serious food for thought! > > > > > > Alan A Hodson MEd. > > > Instructional Applications Analyst > > El Paso Independent School > District > > oF: 915-887-6871 > > fX: 915-772-4016 > > > Nxt:915-892-0389 > > <A HREF="mailto:aahodson@episd.org">aahodson@episd.org</A> > > <A HREF="http://links.episd.org/">http://links.episd.org/</A> > > > Open Source Grokker > > <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/3e4sh8">http://tinyurl.com/3e4sh8</A> > > > > Life is > not measured by the number of breaths we take, > > but by the moments > that take our breath away > > -=o=- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing > list > > <A HREF="mailto:K12OSN@redhat.com">K12OSN@redhat.com</A> > > > <A HREF="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</A> > > For more info see < > <A HREF="http://www.k12os.org">http://www.k12os.org</A> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > > <A HREF="mailto:K12OSN@redhat.com">K12OSN@redhat.com</A> > <A HREF="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</A> > > For more info see < <A HREF="http://www.k12os.org">http://www.k12os.org</A> > > _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list > <A HREF="mailto:K12OSN@redhat.com">K12OSN@redhat.com</A> <A HREF="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</A> For > more info see < <A HREF="http://www.k12os.org">http://www.k12os.org</A> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > <A HREF="mailto:K12OSN@redhat.com">K12OSN@redhat.com</A> > <A HREF="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</A> > For more info see <<A HREF="http://www.k12os.org">http://www.k12os.org</A>> _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list <A HREF="mailto:K12OSN@redhat.com">K12OSN@redhat.com</A> <A HREF="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn</A> For more info see <<A HREF="http://www.k12os.org">http://www.k12os.org</A>> </PRE> </BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML>