From taw at redhat.com Thu Apr 1 00:36:24 2004 From: taw at redhat.com (Todd Warner) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:36:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OS:N:] collaborating to setup BitTorrent In-Reply-To: <37D5E4E0-8326-11D8-9401-000A95880F88@alum.calberkeley.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Robert Citek wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 31, 2004, at 09:04 AM, Chris Spencer wrote: > > Like Todd I haven't had a need...I think you should start by typing: > > man btmakemetafile > > > > That seems to be the appropriate thing. > > I've tried 'man bt...' for all the bt* commands. Unfortunately, they > are not very helpful. 'man {anything}' tends to be great once you know > what you are doing and need a reference, but not so great as an > introduction or tutorial. > > In summary: on Libranet, to install both client and server (tracker) > software: > > apt-get install bittorrent -t unstable > > Read the docs: > > zcat /usr/share/doc/bittorrent/README.txt.gz | less > > I also subscribed to the Yahoo!Groups lists for BitTorrent: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BitTorrent/ > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BitTorrent_help/ > > So far, I've gotten a tracker running and a .torrent file made. I now > just need to figure out how to modify my apache settings, "join" the > web server with the tracker, and modify my NAT/FW to allow connections > through. Where I'm stuck is that I'm not clear on how the tracker > knows where the ISO is. > > That'll be tonight's project. Again, if anyone wants to pair-up to > stumble through this together, I'm game. > > Regards, > - Robert http://dag.wieers.com/packages/bittorrent/ If you want you can plug up2date into his apt repo's: http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/apt/ Or just use apt-get on Fedora/RHEL... just be really really careful with what you download. Dunno how good his RPMs are. -- ____________ /odd Warner Bit Twiddler - Operation Cheetah Flip - Red Hat Inc. ---------------------gpg info in the message headers-------------------- "But when you think about it, it's mostly the bad decisions we make that change our lives. Good ones just get you home safely." -Chris Bliss From m.fioretti at inwind.it Thu Apr 1 09:56:49 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (Marco Fioretti) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:56:49 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education Message-ID: Greetings, I am writing an article about Open Source and education. For it, I need as many quotes as possible which point out how using open source software in place of black box solution is perfect, education-wise, because: it allows self learning it strenghtens characters and self reliance, making possible to improve the existing tools or build whole new ones if needed it gives an active, not passive attitude to young people it teaches the strenght of cooperation and friendship, by sharing efforts and results All kind of quotes are needed and welcome, ie both from famous people like Stallman, Linus, Eric Raymond, etc.... and normal, more or less unknown guys like you and me. I'd prefer, however, "public" quotes, ie something which already said/written on a web page or in some speech/presentation: the reason is to demonstrate that the OSS community is already aware of the issues above, and is already publicly working to bring OSS benefits to young people. Thank you in advance for any feedback. I'll let you know when the article is published (online!) Marco Fioretti From kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu Thu Apr 1 15:35:50 2004 From: kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu (Kevin Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:35:50 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040401153550.GA14181@gri.gallaudet.edu> On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 10:56:49AM +0100, Marco Fioretti wrote: > I am writing an article about Open Source and education. > For it, I need as many quotes as possible which point out how > using open source software in place of black box solution is > perfect, education-wise, because: I would refer you to high school teacher, co-webmaster of the "Open Book Project" and "Python Bibliotheca" sites, and author of "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist (Python Edition)", Jeff Elkner. His web site is: http://www.elkner.net/ He and his students are also responsible for Guido Van Robot (GvR) and the Yorktown High School Libre Users Group. He was a presenter at last week's PyCon 2004. (Links to all of the above as well as some papers and articles he's written are on the web page.) -- Kevin Cole | Key ID: 0xE6F332C7 Gallaudet University | WWW: http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/ Hall Memorial Bldg S-419 | V/TTY: (202) 651-5135 Washington, D.C. 20002-3695 | FAX: (202) 651-5746 "Using vi is not a sin. It's a penance." -- St. IGNUcious, Church of Emacs -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From m.fioretti at inwind.it Thu Apr 1 16:55:08 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (M. Fioretti) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:55:08 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040401165508.GB1083@inwind.it> Hello, first of all, thanks to Kevin and Cole for their suggestions. I realized that I should have been more specific though. In this article I will not touch at all courseware and how it should be licensed (maybe another time). I will focus only on the best way to really teach or (self) learn software, IT, how to program.... Ignoring completely also the cost/TCO/security issues. I "only" want to point out that studying and using _Free_ Software is the best possible to both: learn the specific subject (how to write/use SW) mature as a person, because, as I wrote, Free SW: allows (forces) self learning and thinking strenghtens character and self confidence, since it makes possible/encourages to share, improve the existing tools or build whole new ones if needed gives an active, not passive attitude ("OK, let's just push buttons till it's time to pay the next version") Now, for reasons that will be clear when you'll read the article (I'll post the URL, it should go online around Easter), I need to demonstrate that I'm not the first one to have seen this side of the coin. Specifically, that other FLOSS advocates, famous and not, have already publicly pointed out for years the advantages above. Again, ignoring courseware license, cost savings and so on. Just the "FLOSS is good for your brain and attitude" issue. Something like (from http://www.elkner.net/jeff/testFirst/, thanks to who posted this link): >The common thread that runs through each of these [Free SW] projects >is the ability of collaboration [...] to greatly enhance learning >opportunities I'm sure there are many more around, please help! Thanks again -- Marco Fioretti m.fioretti, at the server inwind.it Red Hat for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/en/ Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. it's the only thing that ever has. (read on /.) From kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu Thu Apr 1 16:51:31 2004 From: kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu (Kevin Cole) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:51:31 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education In-Reply-To: <20040401165508.GB1083@inwind.it> References: <20040401165508.GB1083@inwind.it> Message-ID: <20040401165131.GB14770@gri.gallaudet.edu> On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 06:55:08PM +0200, M. Fioretti wrote: > first of all, thanks to Kevin and Cole for their suggestions. You're welcome, from both of me. ;-) -- Kevin Cole | Key ID: 0xE6F332C7 Gallaudet University | WWW: http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/ Hall Memorial Bldg S-419 | V/TTY: (202) 651-5135 Washington, D.C. 20002-3695 | FAX: (202) 651-5746 "Using vi is not a sin. It's a penance." -- St. IGNUcious, Church of Emacs From m.fioretti at inwind.it Thu Apr 1 18:08:59 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (M. Fioretti) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:08:59 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education In-Reply-To: <20040401165131.GB14770@gri.gallaudet.edu> References: <20040401165508.GB1083@inwind.it> <20040401165131.GB14770@gri.gallaudet.edu> Message-ID: <20040401180859.GE1083@inwind.it> On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 11:51:31 AM -0500, Kevin Cole (kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu) wrote: > On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 06:55:08PM +0200, M. Fioretti wrote: > > > first of all, thanks to Kevin and Cole for their suggestions. > > You're welcome, from both of me. ;-) > Heck, is it my fault if you and Colin have similar names? Shame on you! :-) Ciao, Marco Fioretti -- Marco Fioretti m.fioretti, at the server inwind.it Red Hat for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/en/ ...the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. (Calvin) From jed at nersc.gov Thu Apr 1 22:52:36 2004 From: jed at nersc.gov (Jed Donnelley) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:52:36 -0800 Subject: [OS:N:] Open source article, quotes Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040401144553.022fd098@imap4.lbl.gov> >At 09:00 AM 4/1/2004, open-source-now-list-request at redhat.com wrote: >Message: 2 >Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:56:49 +0100 >From: "Marco Fioretti" >Subject: [OS:N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education >To: "open-source-now-list" >Cc: "m.fioretti" > >Greetings, > >I am writing an article about Open Source and education. >For it, I need as many quotes as possible which point out how >using open source software in place of black box solution is >perfect, education-wise, because: > >it allows self learning > >it strenghtens characters and self reliance, making possible to >improve the existing tools or build whole new ones if needed > >it gives an active, not passive attitude to young people >it teaches the strenght of cooperation and friendship, by sharing >efforts and results > >All kind of quotes are needed and welcome, ie both from famous people like >Stallman, Linus, Eric Raymond, etc.... and normal, more or less unknown >guys like you and me. > >I'd prefer, however, "public" quotes, ie something which already >said/written on a >web page or in some speech/presentation: the reason is to demonstrate that the >OSS community is already aware of the issues above, and is already publicly >working to bring OSS benefits to young people. > >Thank you in advance for any feedback. I'll let you know when the article >is published (online!) > >Marco Fioretti I think this quote from: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-solar/ is pretty compelling and of course already "published": ___________________________________________________________ Flexibility Linux source code is freely available. Any developer who has struggled with debugging a problem that involves someone else's proprietary code knows how much easier it is when you can actually see for yourself what that code is doing. And if you find a problem there or want a feature added, you can modify Linux, provided you follow the provisions of the GNU General Public License. You aren't forced to wait for an operating system supplier to work on your problem for you. This isn't just a theoretical advantage. Users such as business software vendor SAP have exercised the option of making modifications to the Linux source code and point to this valuable option as one of the reasons they support Linux. Find out more about how SAP is taking advantage of Linux in SAP's Linux Technology FAQ (see Resources for a link to this and many of the other sources mentioned in the following sections). ___________________________________________________________ Of course you may have to face the issue of IBM copyright on the above quote ;-) --Jed http://www.nersc.gov/~jed/ From buchan56 at msu.edu Fri Apr 2 15:40:04 2004 From: buchan56 at msu.edu (Kym Buchanan) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:40:04 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] RE: N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark- You might find this site useful: http://www.netc.org/openoptions/ Particularly these arguments: http://www.netc.org/openoptions/pros_cons/comparing.html And these quotes: http://www.netc.org/openoptions/examples/interviews.html -Kym (who helped create that site) -----Original Message----- From: open-source-now-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:open-source-now-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Marco Fioretti Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 4:57 AM To: open-source-now-list Cc: m.fioretti Subject: [OS:N:] Wanted: quotes on OSS and education Greetings, I am writing an article about Open Source and education. For it, I need as many quotes as possible which point out how using open source software in place of black box solution is perfect, education-wise, ---snip From jhogan at redhat.com Thu Apr 8 02:29:02 2004 From: jhogan at redhat.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:29:02 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Open source article, quotes In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040401144553.022fd098@imap4.lbl.gov> References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040401144553.022fd098@imap4.lbl.gov> Message-ID: <1081391342.3538.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> > >Greetings, > > > >I am writing an article about Open Source and education. > >For it, I need as many quotes as possible which point out how > >using open source software in place of black box solution is > >perfect, education-wise, because: Marco, Here's a great collection of .edu case studies which articulate a great many reasons why OSS is better for their environments. http://casestudy.seul.org/cgi-bin/caseview0.pl Also check out: http://www.k12linux.org/ Which lists a few reasons as well as links other sites devoted to F/OSS software and education. And good articles here: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1299/4_49/100608771/p1/article.jhtml And here: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/4216/1/ --jeremy From Matthew.Frye at rexhealth.com Mon Apr 12 17:06:25 2004 From: Matthew.Frye at rexhealth.com (Frye, Matthew) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:25 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] A Manifesto for Collaborative Tools Message-ID: <95796EEB962111468091DAAB4ABE934E03F1A03A@tinman3.rexhealth.com> As we think about open source advocacy, it's important to foster adoption/implementation at the most basic level: channeling development to match needs. An example of this is the way that open source has been used for collaboration, especially in academia and political campaigns/grass roots communities. The article "A Manifesto for Collaborative Tools" by Eugene Eric Kim , http://www.blueoxen.org/papers/0000D/, discusses the problems that collaboration tools currently face and some potential solutions. An excerpt: "The problem with usability is not a lack of good ideas; it's that most of these ideas never make it into real applications. There are many reasons for this, from organizational shortsightedness to the vagaries of the marketplace. As frustrating and as uncontrollable as these factors may be, the onus for changing the situation is on both the researchers who develop these ideas and the programmers who implement them. Open source software offers an excellent and underutilized avenue for disseminating innovations in user interface. Researchers should be writing plugins for widely-used open source applications, such as the Mozilla Web browser, instead of developing prototypes from scratch. Open source developers should be scouring academic publications for ideas, rather than simply duplicating the user interfaces in commercial products. " Hope it makes you think, Matt Frye ----- Confidentiality Notice ----- This e-mail and any attached documents contain confidential information belonging to the sending entity, Rex Healthcare, and is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity(s) associated with the recipient addresses listed in the message header. The authorized recipient of this information is prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken in reliance on the contents of the email and/or attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of this information. To report abuse or inappropriate use, please email abuse at rexhealth.com. From lesbell at lesbell.com.au Wed Apr 14 05:17:22 2004 From: lesbell at lesbell.com.au (Les Bell) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:17:22 +1000 Subject: [OS:N:] Free/Open Souce Software Implementation Survey Message-ID: As part of a study of Free and Open Source Software, we are conducting a survey on corporate/enterprise experience with implementation of systems using FOSS. A pilot study revealed that our original questionnaire was too long for most respondents, and so we have produced a new shorter questionnaire that should take only five minutes or so to complete (although the full-length questionnaire is still available for those who really want to help!). I'd like to invite you to take part in the survey. All respondents who provide contact details (email, particularly) will receive a short report detailing key findings. All data will be kept confidential, and although the questionnaire requests contact and demographic data, all data will be de-identified before use. The survey questionnaire can be found at http://www.lesbell.com.au/fosssrvy.nsf Thank you, Best, --- Les Bell, RHCE, CISSP [http://www.lesbell.com.au] From jhogan at redhat.com Wed Apr 14 17:15:48 2004 From: jhogan at redhat.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:15:48 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Unite and conquer Message-ID: <1081962948.3242.51.camel@dhcp55-216.rdu.redhat.com> Great article by Evan Leibovitch "A recent commentary by Robin Miller regarding squabbling within the free software and open source communities was a useful wake-up call. This bickering is having a detrimental effect on our ability to confront those who are trying to convince policy and opinion makers against the use of free and open source software (FOSS). These challenges are neither severe nor insurmountable, but they do require the parties understand the differences between internal and external debate." http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/04/12/1516240&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=150&tid=82 In an ironic twist, the behavior Roblimo was arguing against in the original commentary came out in spades in the thread. (Robin states the main difference in movements is "when I say GNU/Linux the open source crowd doesn't flame me"). --jeremy From m.fioretti at inwind.it Thu Apr 15 11:49:55 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (Marco Fioretti) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:49:55 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] Boy Scouts and Free Software Message-ID: Greetings, some weeks ago I said on this list "Wanted: quotes on OSS and education" (https://www.redhat.com/archives/open-source-now-list/2004-April/msg00001.html). Here is the reason: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7533 You are obviously welcome to pass it along to any Scout you know. The LJ editor also put very relaxed conditions on authorizing translations. If you can translate it (most Scouts worldwide don't speak english) please let me know off list. Thanks for your input, Marco Fioretti From cspencer at cait.org Thu Apr 15 13:52:34 2004 From: cspencer at cait.org (Chris Spencer) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:52:34 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Boy Scouts and Free Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1082037153.11832.6.camel@chriss2.cait.org> I'm an Eagle scout myself. I am happy to lend my voice whenever you need it. -Chris On Thu, 2004-04-15 at 06:49, Marco Fioretti wrote: > Greetings, > > some weeks ago I said on this list "Wanted: quotes on OSS and education" > (https://www.redhat.com/archives/open-source-now-list/2004-April/msg00001.html). > > Here is the reason: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7533 > > You are obviously welcome to pass it along to any Scout you know. > > The LJ editor also put very relaxed conditions on authorizing translations. > If you can translate it (most Scouts worldwide don't speak english) please > let me know off list. > > Thanks for your input, > > Marco Fioretti > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin From m.fioretti at inwind.it Thu Apr 15 13:58:33 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (Marco Fioretti) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:58:33 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] Boy Scouts and Free Software Message-ID: > I'm an Eagle scout myself. I am happy to lend my voice whenever you > need it. Thanks! Any specific comment about the article? If you agree with it, two ways to help may be: 1) Contact the central office of your Scout association, and ask them "So? Why aren't we doing this already?" 2) Post in the forum associated to the article an offer to help Scout groups in your area to migrate to Linux, so everybody will find it Any feedback is welcome! Ciao, Marco Fioretti From m.fioretti at inwind.it Thu Apr 15 14:00:38 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (Marco Fioretti) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:00:38 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] Boy Scouts and Free Software Message-ID: > I'm an Eagle scout myself. I am happy to lend my voice whenever you > need it. Oh, and of course another obvious way to help is to send an email to every Scout you know (if, how and when you think it proper, of course), which says "No, I don't have any million dollars in Nigerians account, but you should really have a look at this" :-) Ciao, Marco Fioretti From mike at linuxlink.com Thu Apr 15 15:16:28 2004 From: mike at linuxlink.com (Michael H. Collins) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:16:28 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Boy Scouts and Free Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407EA74C.7090600@linuxlink.com> Very nice. Thanks from a former Boy Scout. Marco Fioretti wrote: > Greetings, > > some weeks ago I said on this list "Wanted: quotes on OSS and education" > (https://www.redhat.com/archives/open-source-now-list/2004-April/msg00001.html). > > Here is the reason: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7533 > > You are obviously welcome to pass it along to any Scout you know. > > The LJ editor also put very relaxed conditions on authorizing translations. > If you can translate it (most Scouts worldwide don't speak english) please > let me know off list. > > Thanks for your input, > > Marco Fioretti > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > > > -- Michael H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy http://linuxlink.com http://www.gracklenews.com/ /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email x No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough. -- Mario Andretti From evan at lpi.org Sun Apr 18 19:33:06 2004 From: evan at lpi.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:33:06 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Unite and conquer In-Reply-To: <1081962948.3242.51.camel@dhcp55-216.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1081962948.3242.51.camel@dhcp55-216.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4082D7F2.7050508@lpi.org> Jeremy Hogan wrote: >Great article by Evan Leibovitch > > >http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/04/12/1516240&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=150&tid=82 > > Thanks for the nice words, Jeremy. It's totally exasperating to participate in events where FOSS supporters spend as much talking about each other than about the problems of the current proprietary-driven IT environment. I've been at two such events -- conferences in Capetown and Geneva -- and it's downright saddening to see the result. For better or worse, the old-time social development agencies (UNDP, World Bank) use the term "open source" in all of their policy documents. (I think that part of the reason for this is that the word "freedom" is a hot button term on the international scene whose ramifications are not universally considered positive). But rather than being applauded for taking baby steps away from the status-quo, they're being insulted for not going all the way and promoting a world without any proprietary software. Example -- at a recent UN-sponsored IT conference in Geneva at which LPI and FSF were the only two FOSS supporters given standing, the only accomplishment of the FSF was getting the words "open source" stricken from policy documents and replaced with "free software". They simply assumed that the conference would endorse free software, but it didn't happen. In the end, proprietary interests were able to eliminate *all* positive wording toward free software too -- it was simply noted as an alternative. LPI came too late to the game to affect that document but we won't let it happen again. At very least, we need to focus on the positive -- not the evils of whatever-approaches-we-don't-like, but the reasons why to support our own positions. It's one of the reasons I like the OSN list, which is generally positive in tone. I don't post here much, but I do my share of lurking ;-). "We have met the enemy, and he is us" -- Pogo, 1972 (I know that slogan shows up a lot but it's unfortunately _so_ appropriate) - Evan From ivh at georgetown.edu Wed Apr 21 06:07:47 2004 From: ivh at georgetown.edu (Ignatius Hsu) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:07:47 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Non Profits & Open Source In-Reply-To: <4082D7F2.7050508@lpi.org> References: <1081962948.3242.51.camel@dhcp55-216.rdu.redhat.com> <4082D7F2.7050508@lpi.org> Message-ID: <40860FB3.30503@georgetown.edu> Here's a good resource. Choosing and Using Open Source Software: A primer for nonprofits, published by NOSI (Nonprofit Open Source Initiative) http://nosi.net/primer/html For those that are in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, there will be a forum on the evening of April 22 at the Provisions Library on "Open Source/Open Technologies." http://www.provisionslibrary.org/nlw04.shtml#april22 About the event: ? Nonprofit Open Source Initiative - Michelle Murrain Michelle Murrain has been involved in software development, particularly as a tool for biomedical research and education, since 1979. Michelle has been involved in developing content and applications for the web, specifically for research and educational purposes, since 1994. In 1995, while Associate Professor of Biology at Hampshire College, Michelle started a consulting practice that serves the non-profit and educational sectors, primarily in the areas of developing database-driven web-sites, cross-platform networks and the implementation of Linux, and strategic technology planning. Michelle will talk about Open Source software, why nonprofit organizations and activists should care about it, not just for the cost-effective access to technology, but because of the underlying ethos of Open Source development. - Ignatius Hsu From m.fioretti at inwind.it Thu Apr 22 11:25:28 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (Marco Fioretti) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:25:28 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] Again on : Scouts and Free Software Message-ID: > some weeks ago I said on this list "Wanted: quotes on OSS and education" > Here is the reason:> > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7533 it's me again. The World Scout Bureau has answered, and things look good. To read what they say, look in the forum associated to the article. The two suggestions below become even more important now. Thank you in advance for any support. Yours in Scouting, Marco Fioretti .> > You are obviously welcome to pass it along to any Scout you know. > > The LJ editor also put very relaxed conditions on authorizing translations. > If you can translate it (most Scouts worldwide don't speak english) please > let me know off list. From m.fioretti at inwind.it Sat May 1 23:06:46 2004 From: m.fioretti at inwind.it (M. Fioretti) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 01:06:46 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] Sun considers GPL license for Solaris? Message-ID: <20040501230646.GB11441@inwind.it> http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/04/30/HNsolarisgpl_1.html Ciao, Marco Fioretti -- Marco Fioretti m.fioretti, at the server inwind.it Red Hat for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/en/ According to one popular definition, craziness is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Sat May 8 10:33:23 2004 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Rwcitek) Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 11:33:23 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] New changes Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Details.cpl Type: application/octet-stream Size: 21892 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Sat May 8 10:08:21 2004 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 05:08:21 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] forged header (was: New changes) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Saturday, May 8, 2004, at 05:33 US/Central, Rwcitek wrote: > Received: from mx3.redhat.com (mx3.redhat.com [172.16.48.32]) by > int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i489VKv26642 for > ; Sat, 8 May 2004 05:31:20 -0400 > Received: from B1-66ER.net (host20.saroch.net [80.188.58.20]) by > mx3.redhat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i489VEAY001561 for > ; Sat, 8 May 2004 05:31:15 -0400 Nothing like having a forged e-mail in your name. For those of you running non-Windows machines, the attachment is nothing but a bunch-o-bits. For those of you running Windows machines, you're probably running an OpenSource e-mail program like Mozilla or Sylpheed-Claws, both available from the GnuWinII collection, and so have less to worry about, right? :) Regards, - Robert From taw at redhat.com Wed May 12 16:30:16 2004 From: taw at redhat.com (Todd Warner) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OS:N:] Panel To Reopen Debate Over 'Fair Use,' Copyright Law Message-ID: For the life of me, I can't find the link to this. Anyway... *Panel To Reopen Debate Over 'Fair Use,' Copyright Law* by Sarah Lai Stirland The question of whether the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) eliminated the legal principle of "fair use" of copyrighted materials has animated the debate among key players in Hollywood and the technology community ever since the law's enactment in 1998. Law experts, tech researchers and some tech industry officials argue that the DMCA effectively eliminated fair-use rights and gave the entertainment industry total control over how consumers use digital products, while the entertainment and content industries argue that the statute strikes an appropriate balance between fair use and intellectual property protection. On Wednesday, members of the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade and Consumer Protection will revisit the issue when it considers a bill, H.R. 107 , that the sponsors say aims to restore fair-use rights. Specifically, the bill would make entertainment companies label compact discs and digital videodiscs that include technology to protect content. The measure also would exempt scientists from prosecution under DMCA language that makes it illegal to circumvent such technologies if they are cracking the code to do research, and anyone could bypass copy-protection mechanisms if they are doing so to copy content in ways that do not violate digital copyright law. Tech enthusiasts have complained that the anti-circumvention provisions prevent them from making back-up copies of software, videogames and other digital content. "If someone buys a DVD at a store and you want to bypass the advertisements and you knew how to do this [technically], you would be allowed to do it," bill sponsor *Rick Boucher* D-Va., said of his legislation. "But if you do it under current law, it's a federal crime." The content industries have tried to cast the debate in terms of intellectual property protection. But Boucher said his bill would do nothing to change the current penalties for digital piracy and instead would only restore consumers' fair-use rights. His bill is supported by technology giants like Intel, industry trade groups like the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA), library associations, digital-rights groups, high-speed Internet providers like SBC Communications and Verizon Communications, and smaller players like 321 Studios, which makes popular DVD-copying software for consumers. Software makers represented by the Business Software Alliance oppose the measure. "We think Congress found the right balance in '98," alliance counsel *Emery Simon* said. But *Michael Petricone*, CEA's vice president of technology policy, said the problem with the DMCA is that it focuses on the technology itself rather than the crime of piracy. Noting the Supreme Court decision 20 years ago in /Universal Studios v. Sony Betamax/, which reaffirmed consumers' rights to tape home movies on videocassette recorders, Petricone added that movie companies have benefited from technology. He said the /Betamax/ ruling enabled the birth of other consumer-friendly electronic entertainment products. "Hollywood now makes more money on recorded content than on box-office releases," he said, "so you would have thought they learned the lesson, but they haven't." From jkinz at kinz.org Thu May 13 03:10:43 2004 From: jkinz at kinz.org (Jeff Kinz) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:10:43 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Panel To Reopen Debate Over 'Fair Use,' Copyright Law In-Reply-To: ; from taw@redhat.com on Wed, May 12, 2004 at 12:30:16PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20040512231043.A9558@redline.comcast.net> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 12:30:16PM -0400, Todd Warner wrote: > For the life of me, I can't find the link to this. Anyway... here is one: http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=2901 I thought I saw this on /. but perhaps it was LWN. Anyway - Its good news that an attempt is being made to correct some of the overkill in the DMCA act > > > *Panel To Reopen Debate Over 'Fair Use,' Copyright Law* > by Sarah Lai Stirland > > The question of whether the Digital Millennium Copyright Act > (DMCA) eliminated the > legal principle of "fair use" of copyrighted materials has animated the > debate among key players in Hollywood and the technology community ever > since the law's enactment in 1998. "Remaindeer" snipped. .... >:> -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. "jkinz at kinz.org" is copyright 2004. Use is restricted. Any use is an acceptance of the offer at http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:0doocNSr1nMJ:www.kinz.org/policy.html+%22//www.kinz.org/policy.html%22&hl=en&lr=lang_en From jkinz at kinz.org Thu May 13 03:25:54 2004 From: jkinz at kinz.org (Jeff Kinz) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:25:54 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Gasp!, an Article on OSS, uses the "U" word! (Good article) Message-ID: <20040512232554.B9558@redline.comcast.net> Steven Weber has written a book called : "The Success of Open Source" (Ta da! ) This article is a short discussion with the author about some of the main points of the book. Author Steven Weber looks beyond the hype on Open Source. More than a self-governing utopia, it's a practical, sustainable way of organizing and innovating. Its methods may soon be applied successfully in other sectors. Plus, a "crazy" idea for Microsoft. http://www.acm.org/ubiquity/interviews/v5i11_weber.html -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. "jkinz at kinz.org" is copyright 2004. Use is restricted. Any use is an acceptance of the offer at www.kinz.org/policy.html From Paul.Sherman at med.va.gov Thu May 13 12:57:38 2004 From: Paul.Sherman at med.va.gov (Sherman, Paul (CEOSH)) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 05:57:38 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] RE: N:] Gasp!, an Article on OSS, uses the "U" word! (Good articl e) Message-ID: Actually, now that I think about it (and after reading the interview), there may be a similar model that's been in place for about 65 years. The twelve step recovery programs have operated using many similar principles to open source... -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kinz [mailto:jkinz at kinz.org] Subject: [OS:N:] Gasp!, an Article on OSS, uses the "U" word! (Good article) Steven Weber has written a book called : "The Success of Open Source" (Ta da! ) This article is a short discussion with the author about some of the main points of the book. Author Steven Weber looks beyond the hype on Open Source. More than a self-governing utopia, it's a practical, sustainable way of organizing and innovating. Its methods may soon be applied successfully in other sectors. Plus, a "crazy" idea for Microsoft. http://www.acm.org/ubiquity/interviews/v5i11_weber.html From fhkms at adelphia.net Fri May 28 09:36:12 2004 From: fhkms at adelphia.net (Will Hatch) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 5:36:12 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie Message-ID: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Hello all, I am a 7-12th grade teacher at a small alternative school in Vermont USA. When I took this job, I had no idea that in addition to being the special educator, I would be the computer administrator for the school. Our school is small, with 16 student max, and 4 teachers. My room just happens to be the computer lab. The other teachers, however competent with computers, are only interested in using them, not maintaining them. The lab was very cobbed together when I took over, with windows 98, xp home, and xp pro covering 8 computers on a network. Six of the computers are in the lab, of which one is mine. The other 2 are on teachers desks in other rooms. So, we basically have 3 teacher computers and 5 student computers. Being that I have different versions of windows on these computers, and that they were loaded with all kinds of games and other garbage when I took over, it has been hard to make them uniform. Plus, we have a modest budget and I am constantly playing the! game of trying to upgrade computers and windows systems. Its a total pain in the rear and i'm ready to try something new. I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm handy with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives and setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone help??? Thanks! From pc at pcable.net Fri May 28 10:55:43 2004 From: pc at pcable.net (Patrick Cable II) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 06:55:43 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <000901c444a2$52afcc20$6601a8c0@eccentricity> > Removing hard-drives and setting up a server scares me. Ah, yes. Do you have any computer handy friends? Perhaps you could have them around while you try out things just in case you get into a bind that you don't know how to get out of. But for the most part, as long as you don't drop anything the hardware end of things *should* be alright. But, the best advice is to just play with a computer. If you have a spare computer you can use, use it to experiment with. If not, see if you can get an older one to do just that with (My house server is an 800mhz pentium 3 with 256mb of ram - it works just fine) Good luck! - Patrick Cable II Media Technician, Dennett Elementary School From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Fri May 28 13:02:09 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:02:09 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> Will Hatch wrote: > I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm handy with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives and setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone help??? Thanks! About setting up the server, you did not mention if you have any familiarity with Linux. If you don't, the first thing you could do to give you some confidence is to install Linux on a spare computer. If possible, choose one that is not actively used so you could take your time to experiment. Don't worry with LTSP at this point, just try to grow some confidence and proficiency with Linux. When you feel more comfortable, you could try to tackle setting up your LTSP server. I do not think you _actually_ need to remove the hard drives. At first, you could leave the hard drives there (with Windows and all) and boot from a floppy to start an LTSP terminal. That way, if you ever need Windows again, you can just remove the floppy and boot into it. I suggest you look for some help to get you started. I would first look for a LUG (Linux User Group) in your area and ask on their mailing list or show up at one of their meeting. We Linux users love to help people solve problems, so I would not be surprised if you could find someone in your area to volunteer a little of his time to give you a hand. You could also ask the parents if one of them is familiar with Linux and/or working in IT. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mike at linuxlink.com Fri May 28 13:53:15 2004 From: mike at linuxlink.com (Michael H. Collins) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:53:15 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> Message-ID: <40B7444B.2030106@linuxlink.com> Etienne Goyer wrote: > Will Hatch wrote: > >> I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm >> handy with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives >> and setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone >> help??? Thanks! > > > About setting up the server, you did not mention if you have any > familiarity with Linux. If you don't, the first thing you could do to > give you some confidence is to install Linux on a spare computer. If > possible, choose one that is not actively used so you could take your > time to experiment. Don't worry with LTSP at this point, just try to > grow some confidence and proficiency with Linux. When you feel more > comfortable, you could try to tackle setting up your LTSP server. > > I do not think you _actually_ need to remove the hard drives. At first, > you could leave the hard drives there (with Windows and all) and boot > from a floppy to start an LTSP terminal. That way, if you ever need > Windows again, you can just remove the floppy and boot into it. > > I suggest you look for some help to get you started. I would first look > for a LUG (Linux User Group) in your area and ask on their mailing list > or show up at one of their meeting. We Linux users love to help people > solve problems, so I would not be surprised if you could find someone in > your area to volunteer a little of his time to give you a hand. I might add to that: Join the ltsp mail list and get on the #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net We are always there and ready to answer any and all questions. http://ltsp.org > > You could also ask the parents if one of them is familiar with Linux > and/or working in IT. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > -- mike at ltsp.org Michael H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy http://linuxlink.com /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email x No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) From fhkms at adelphia.net Fri May 28 14:09:47 2004 From: fhkms at adelphia.net (Will Hatch) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:09:47 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie Message-ID: <20040528140947.DGKF8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Thanks for the feedback Patrick. Playing with Linux in some capacity is probably a good idea. I actually have a few spare computers that I could load Linux onto, for demo purposes. But, I have tried to download a couple different systems and then burn them to cd, but I'm not doing something right because when I put the cd in and try to reboot it does not recognize the cd. I'm not sure what is being done wrong. I have roxy easy cd creator but i'm not sure its being burned right. - Will > > From: "Patrick Cable II" > Date: 2004/05/28 Fri AM 06:55:43 EDT > To: "Open source advocacy in education and government" > Subject: Re: [OS:N:] newbie > > > Removing hard-drives and setting up a server scares me. > > Ah, yes. > > Do you have any computer handy friends? Perhaps you could have them around > while you try out things just in case you get into a bind that you don't > know how to get out of. But for the most part, as long as you don't drop > anything the hardware end of things *should* be alright. > > But, the best advice is to just play with a computer. If you have a spare > computer you can use, use it to experiment with. If not, see if you can get > an older one to do just that with (My house server is an 800mhz pentium 3 > with 256mb of ram - it works just fine) > > Good luck! > - > Patrick Cable II > Media Technician, Dennett Elementary School > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > > From fhkms at adelphia.net Fri May 28 14:13:55 2004 From: fhkms at adelphia.net (Will Hatch) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:13:55 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie Message-ID: <20040528141355.DIEJ8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Thanks Etienne! Your suggestions will be very helpful. > > From: Etienne Goyer > Date: 2004/05/28 Fri AM 09:02:09 EDT > To: Open source advocacy in education and government > Subject: Re: [OS:N:] newbie > > -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ - For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Fri May 28 14:34:36 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:34:36 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528140947.DGKF8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> References: <20040528140947.DGKF8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <40B74DFC.6070701@linuxquebec.com> Will Hatch wrote: > Thanks for the feedback Patrick. Playing with Linux in some capacity is probably a good idea. I actually have a few spare computers that I could load Linux onto, for demo purposes. But, I have tried to download a couple different systems and then burn them to cd, but I'm not doing something right because when I put the cd in and try to reboot it does not recognize the cd. I'm not sure what is being done wrong. I have roxy easy cd creator but i'm not sure its being burned right. - Will When you browse the CD in Windows, do you see a single file called .iso, or you see multiple files ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Fri May 28 15:35:23 2004 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:35:23 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: Hello Will, On Friday, May 28, 2004, at 04:36 US/Central, Will Hatch wrote: > I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm > handy with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives > and setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone > help??? Thanks! First, what do you want to do with these computers, e.g. browse the web, write papers, e-mail, burn CDs, run specific software? Second, do you have an inventory of all the machines? That is, for each machine, what speed/type/number of CPUs, amount of RAM, size/number of hard drives, speed/type/number of network cards, IP address/name? Unfortunately, I don't know an easy way to find this information on Windows. Regards, - Robert From fhkms at adelphia.net Fri May 28 16:53:19 2004 From: fhkms at adelphia.net (Will Hatch) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:53:19 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie Message-ID: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Hi Robert, Thanks for your reply. My students use the computers for wordprocessing, browsing the web for research purposes (we do not have a library), and thats about it. Gaming is not necessary, although chess or something simple such as chess would be ok. They really do not have to be supersonic. My main goals are that each work station is identical, that there is nothing on the computers that is not educational, and that I can save money by having computers that do not need constant upgrading of microsoft products. As far as what each computer has for hardware, I could get that info. -Will > > From: Robert Citek > Date: 2004/05/28 Fri AM 11:35:23 EDT > To: Open source advocacy in education and government > Subject: Re: [OS:N:] newbie > > > Hello Will, > > On Friday, May 28, 2004, at 04:36 US/Central, Will Hatch wrote: > > I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm > > handy with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives > > and setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone > > help??? Thanks! > > First, what do you want to do with these computers, e.g. browse the > web, write papers, e-mail, burn CDs, run specific software? > > Second, do you have an inventory of all the machines? That is, for > each machine, what speed/type/number of CPUs, amount of RAM, > size/number of hard drives, speed/type/number of network cards, IP > address/name? Unfortunately, I don't know an easy way to find this > information on Windows. > > Regards, > - Robert > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > > From damiano at verzulli.it Fri May 28 16:57:10 2004 From: damiano at verzulli.it (Damiano Verzulli) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:57:10 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> Message-ID: <40B76F66.5020102@verzulli.it> Etienne Goyer wrote: > [...] > I suggest you look for some help to get you started. I would first look > for a LUG (Linux User Group) in your area and ask on their mailing list > or show up at one of their meeting. We Linux users love to help people > solve problems, so I would not be surprised if you could find someone in > your area to volunteer a little of his time to give you a hand. try also giving a look (and asking for support) to these links: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6349 http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7418 Finally, a look to these two sites: http://schoolforge.net/ http://www.seul.org/edu/ and to the SCHOOLFORGE mailing list: http://schoolforge.net/sfdiscuss.php could worth the efforts ;-) HTH. Bye, Damiano -- Damiano Verzulli e-mail: damiano at verzulli.it --- possible?ok:while(!possible){open_mindedness++} --- "...Science, after all, is ultimately an Open Source enterprise..." 'Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution' - Introduction [http://www.openresources.com/documents/open-sources/main.html] From jay at scherrer.com Fri May 28 17:06:07 2004 From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:06:07 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <200405281006.20088.jay@scherrer.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Why not start soft and setup a main Samba server? Connect your existing windows boxes through a router (Wired or wireless), connected to a Linux server. This setup would only require nics for the computers and a router to start. The kids would have fun Learning Samba. Jay On Friday 28 May 2004 02:36 am, Will Hatch wrote: > Hello all, > > I am a 7-12th grade teacher at a small alternative school in Vermont USA. > When I took this job, I had no idea that in addition to being the special > educator, I would be the computer administrator for the school. Our school > is small, with 16 student max, and 4 teachers. My room just happens to be > the computer lab. The other teachers, however competent with computers, > are only interested in using them, not maintaining them. The lab was very > cobbed together when I took over, with windows 98, xp home, and xp pro > covering 8 computers on a network. Six of the computers are in the lab, of > which one is mine. The other 2 are on teachers desks in other rooms. So, > we basically have 3 teacher computers and 5 student computers. Being that > I have different versions of windows on these computers, and that they were > loaded with all kinds of games and other garbage when I took over, it has > been hard to make them uniform. Plus, we have a modest budget and I am > constantly playing the! game of trying to upgrade computers and windows > systems. Its a total pain in the rear and i'm ready to try something new. > > I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm handy > with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives and > setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone help??? > Thanks! > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAt3GJ7+UFWg+1k3YRArhKAJ4xl6a355c8i8JR5ZRTlocU7d5M/QCeOMyN bUh/eDVQ3QJz+wugDhvsFKg= =FiMP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Fri May 28 17:15:04 2004 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:15:04 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <8F664483-B0CA-11D8-958B-000A95880F88@alum.calberkeley.org> On Friday, May 28, 2004, at 11:53 US/Central, Will Hatch wrote: > Thanks for your reply. My students use the computers for > wordprocessing, browsing the web for research purposes (we do not have > a library), and thats about it. Gaming is not necessary, although > chess or something simple such as chess would be ok. They really do > not have to be supersonic. My main goals are that each work station > is identical, that there is nothing on the computers that is not > educational, and that I can save money by having computers that do not > need constant upgrading of microsoft products. And how powerful are your machines that you have? I ask because a full install of Red Hat 9 or Fedora Core or most other Linux distros is going to take about 6 BG of space (including swap and all the goodies). Also if you wish to run a full-featured GUI desktop like Gnome or KDE, I would recommend a 800 MHZ CPU and a minimum 128 MB of RAM. Given that your XP machines are probably the newer/faster machines, what kind of hardware to they have? Regards, - Robert From jay at scherrer.com Fri May 28 17:28:25 2004 From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:28:25 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528140947.DGKF8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> References: <20040528140947.DGKF8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <200405281028.27434.jay@scherrer.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 28 May 2004 07:09 am, Will Hatch wrote: > Thanks for the feedback Patrick. Playing with Linux in some capacity is > probably a good idea. I actually have a few spare computers that I could > load Linux onto, for demo purposes. But, I have tried to download a couple > different systems and then burn them to cd, but I'm not doing something > right because when I put the cd in and try to reboot it does not recognize > the cd. I'm not sure what is being done wrong. I have roxy easy cd > creator but i'm not sure its being burned right. - Will > You have to make sure the cd your writing will be bootable. You can not just copy files and expect the cd to boot. Other wise you will need to create a boot disk (floppy) from the files located in the source cd. I think the command is rawwrite for dos, and look for the linux img file. The document source will explain. Jay -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAt3a57+UFWg+1k3YRAowTAJ937e6o7J7e74qOSLyZFU/mItIQBACdGn69 r78TzBRcXqn+qEqVBwY7K9w= =xOov -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nbs at sonic.net Fri May 28 19:00:46 2004 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:00:46 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20040528190046.GA6373@sonic.net> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 05:36:12AM -0400, Will Hatch wrote: > > I am a 7-12th grade teacher at a small alternative school in Vermont USA. > > I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm handy > with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives and > setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone help??? > Thanks! First off, make sure you're familiar with the numerous Linux-in-education projects out there, if you aren't already. Check out sites like: http://schoolforge.net/ http://seul.org/edu/ http://www.k12ltsp.org/ Secondly, you may be able to enlist help from local gurus (or people willing to learn :^) ). There apparently used to be a Linux Users Group in Vermont called "slug-vt" (Small Linux Users Group of Vermont), but their site seems to have vanished. An extremely quick Google search came up with these folks, though: VAGUE - Vermont Area Group of Unix Enthusiasts http://www.uvm.org/vague/ Depending on where in Vermont you are, there may be other LUGs or Unix UGs close-by, with people who can help out. See GLUE listings for the US: http://www.ssc.com:8080/glue/groups/us Good luck!!! -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com C is like an industrial strength http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ nail gun; if wielded improperly, New Breed Software it can cause untold carnage. From nbs at sonic.net Fri May 28 19:21:29 2004 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:21:29 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> Message-ID: <20040528192129.GB6373@sonic.net> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 09:02:09AM -0400, Etienne Goyer wrote: > About setting up the server, you did not mention if you have any > familiarity with Linux. If you don't, the first thing you could do to > give you some confidence is to install Linux on a spare computer. If > possible, choose one that is not actively used so you could take your > time to experiment. You can also hijack one 'temporarily' by either partitioning the existing drive so that you can dual-boot between Windows and Linux, or simply get a Knoppix disc (or say, Knoppix for Kids! :^) http://www.osef.org/ ) and boot the machine into Linux after-hours, or when classes aren't using the lab, so you can play around. That's not quite the same as getting used to setting up a server, but if you don't know Linux at ALL, it will let you get used to the environment, first from a desktop user's standpoint, and then as you play around with server and networking tools under the hood, you'll get a feel for the server side of things. (For example here where I work, we installed Debian Linux on some el-cheapo PC to run as a server; I didn't install a GUI environment on it at all, since it's only doing webserving and running some server software I'm developing in C.) Based on what I heard about Windows at a Linux user group meeting I attended last night, that's _way_ different from the Windows experience, where you can't even install a compiler to do software development if you have the so-called "Home Edition" of the XP Operating System. (That seems so arbitrary and stupid... but, I'm used to the free- and open-ness of Linux, I guess...?) > Don't worry with LTSP at this point, just try to > grow some confidence and proficiency with Linux. When you feel more > comfortable, you could try to tackle setting up your LTSP server. Burn copies of Knoppix (for Kids), one for each system in the room, and fire it up one day and let the kids play around with it. In the end, this is not the optimal Linux experience, since everything runs off of CDROM and out of RAM, so it's much slower than it would be on a normal, hard-drive-installed Linux box. (Not to mention Knoppix likes tons of eye-candy by default ;^) ) But, you'll get to see some of the software readily available for Linux, and maybe pick and choose what you'll want to install later down the road (either on each system separately, or on an LTSP server). > I suggest you look for some help to get you started. I would first look > for a LUG (Linux User Group) in your area and ask on their mailing list > or show up at one of their meeting. Also, there are some big LUGs in the world, and noone usually cares where you're from when you subscribe to their lists. :^) I was in Davis California, and active on the San Jose LUG (SVLUG.org) list. Now I'm in San Jose, but am still active with Davis (LUGOD.org), and surrounding area LUGs. Made a lot of friends through them. :^) Also, don't forget IRC! irc.freenode.net is a good starting place. Good luck! -bill! From nbs at sonic.net Fri May 28 19:24:01 2004 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:24:01 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B76F66.5020102@verzulli.it> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> <40B76F66.5020102@verzulli.it> Message-ID: <20040528192401.GC6373@sonic.net> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 06:57:10PM +0200, Damiano Verzulli wrote: > Finally, a look to these two sites: > > http://schoolforge.net/ > http://www.seul.org/edu/ Wow, I should really read the whole thread before posting a bunch of redundant stuff, huh? :) -bill! (too much coffee this morning) From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Fri May 28 19:46:17 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:46:17 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <8F664483-B0CA-11D8-958B-000A95880F88@alum.calberkeley.org> References: <8F664483-B0CA-11D8-958B-000A95880F88@alum.calberkeley.org> Message-ID: <40B79709.4000907@linuxquebec.com> Robert Citek wrote: > And how powerful are your machines that you have? I ask because a full > install of Red Hat 9 or Fedora Core or most other Linux distros is going > to take about 6 BG of space (including swap and all the goodies). Also > if you wish to run a full-featured GUI desktop like Gnome or KDE, I > would recommend a 800 MHZ CPU and a minimum 128 MB of RAM. Keep in mind that he want to use LTSP, thus use his PC as X terminal. In this scenario, hardware specs are irrevelant. Installing a full-blown distro on each PC may be an alternative to which there is advantage and drawback. On the advantage front, performance will probably be much better (especially for things like watching video), it will be easier to make use of peripheral such as CD-writer, etc. On the downside, the amount of system administration required will grow exponentially, the environnement may not be consistent, no centralized home directory (unless he mount /home over NFS), etc. I wish I was in his area; this sound like an interesting project. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Fri May 28 19:56:35 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:56:35 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528192129.GB6373@sonic.net> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <40B73851.501@linuxquebec.com> <20040528192129.GB6373@sonic.net> Message-ID: <40B79973.2040401@linuxquebec.com> Bill Kendrick wrote: > Based on what I heard about Windows at a Linux user group meeting I attended > last night, that's _way_ different from the Windows experience, where you > can't even install a compiler to do software development if you have the > so-called "Home Edition" of the XP Operating System. (That seems so > arbitrary and stupid... but, I'm used to the free- and open-ness of Linux, > I guess...?) The only limitation I know about XP Home Edition is that it can't join a domain (Active Directory or NT4 domain). Maybe Visual Studio will refuse to install on HE, but then I can't see how it could prevent the user from installing MinGW or some other [F|f]ree compiler. >>I suggest you look for some help to get you started. I would first look >>for a LUG (Linux User Group) in your area and ask on their mailing list >>or show up at one of their meeting. > > Also, there are some big LUGs in the world, and noone usually cares where > you're from when you subscribe to their lists. :^) What I was suggesting is more along the line of getting real, meatspace help. There's plenty of ressource on the Internet indeed, but nothing beat interacting with someone in person to get started. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nbs at sonic.net Fri May 28 20:00:46 2004 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:00:46 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 12:53:19PM -0400, Will Hatch wrote: > Thanks for your reply. My students use the computers for wordprocessing, OpenOffice.org, KOffice, AbiWord or others will probably be suitable. I typically prefer and suggest OpenOffice.org, since it runs on a variety of platforms (kid doesn't have OOo at home? give him/her a copy for their Windows box! it's free), seems to have reasonable support for import/export of MSOffice formats, and can export to PDF (great for publishing stuff to the web, emailing assignments, etc.) > browsing the web for research purposes (we do not have a library), Mozilla, FireFox or Konqueror are my favorites. Mozilla and kin are nice because they also run on a variety of platforms. Good website for research is WikiPedia ( http://www.wikipedia.org/ ) It's published under an 'Open Source' style license. (Creative Commons, if I recall correctly) > and thats about it. Gaming is not necessary, although chess or something > simple such as chess would be ok. Xboard. You can play on the Internet, too (like with FICS or ICC servers). Also lots of neat scientific and other educational stuff (again, see what's installed on Knoppix for Kids ;^) ). KStars is great, for example! > They really do not have to be supersonic. My main goals are that > each work station is identical, that there is nothing on the computers > that is not educational, and that I can save money by having computers > that do not need constant upgrading of microsoft products. I highly recommend Debian as a distro, since package management is a breeze. Others may suggest other distros. I've heard a lot of good things (and some bad ;^) ) about Gentoo for example. -bill! From walkerk at uchastings.edu Fri May 28 20:26:54 2004 From: walkerk at uchastings.edu (Kent Walker) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:26:54 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528140947.DGKF8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.n et> References: <20040528140947.DGKF8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040528131637.0340a2b8@pericles.uchastings.edu> Will, It doesn't look like you got an answer to the CD burning issue yet. If you downloaded an "iso" image, you don't use the usual method of burning files to a CD. Instead, go to the toolbar under "File" and select "Record CD from CD Image". Select a file type of "ISO image file" and navigate to the file you downloaded. The ISO image is a bit-for-bit copy of the CD image. If it's still not booting from the CD, you may need to change the boot device selection sequence in the BIOS; it may be set to boot from the hard drive first. As regards setting up your first Linux machine: As you have some spare computers, I strongly recommend using one as a dedicated Linux machine. Making a dual-boot machine having both Linux and Windows can create problems and you probably don't need that right now. Once your set of CDs is ready, boot from the first one and, when you arrive at the screen for formatting the hard drive, select the option which removes all volumes and data from the drive. Good luck! At 07:09 AM 5/28/2004, Will Hatch wrote: >Thanks for the feedback Patrick. Playing with Linux in some capacity is >probably a good idea. I actually have a few spare computers that I could >load Linux onto, for demo purposes. But, I have tried to download a >couple different systems and then burn them to cd, but I'm not doing >something right because when I put the cd in and try to reboot it does not >recognize the cd. I'm not sure what is being done wrong. I have roxy >easy cd creator but i'm not sure its being burned right. - Will > > > --- Kent Walker - Datatel Analyst Information Technology - U.C. Hastings College of the Law 415-565-4635 From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Fri May 28 20:47:20 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:47:20 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> Message-ID: <40B7A558.9020304@linuxquebec.com> Bill Kendrick wrote: > I highly recommend Debian as a distro, since package management is a breeze. > Others may suggest other distros. I've heard a lot of good things > (and some bad ;^) ) about Gentoo for example. Hopefully I will not turn this thread into a distribution flame-fest ;), but I would like to point out that most (all ?) major distribution now come with a package manager that match (more or less) Deabian's apt featureset. Fedora/RedHat -> yum (+/- up2date) Mandrake -> urpmi Gentoo -> emerge SuSE -> YaST (it does package management, right ?) etc ... Actually, I am an happy user of apt4rpm under Fedora. I do think, though, that the package management GUI of Mandrake is superior to the one shipped with Fedora or Synaptic. Automatic software installation (and package management) _is_ the Linux killer application, IMHO. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From anthonybaldwin at snet.net Fri May 28 21:12:31 2004 From: anthonybaldwin at snet.net (anthony baldwin) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:12:31 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <8F664483-B0CA-11D8-958B-000A95880F88@alum.calberkeley.org> References: <8F664483-B0CA-11D8-958B-000A95880F88@alum.calberkeley.org> Message-ID: <40B7AB3F.4040407@snet.net> Robert Citek wrote: > > On Friday, May 28, 2004, at 11:53 US/Central, Will Hatch wrote: > >> Thanks for your reply. My students use the computers for >> wordprocessing, browsing the web for research purposes (we do not have >> a library), and thats about it. Gaming is not necessary, although >> chess or something simple such as chess would be ok. They really do >> not have to be supersonic. My main goals are that each work station >> is identical, that there is nothing on the computers that is not >> educational, and that I can save money by having computers that do not >> need constant upgrading of microsoft products. > > > And how powerful are your machines that you have? I ask because a full > install of Red Hat 9 or Fedora Core or most other Linux distros is going > to take about 6 BG of space (including swap and all the goodies). Also > if you wish to run a full-featured GUI desktop like Gnome or KDE, I > would recommend a 800 MHZ CPU and a minimum 128 MB of RAM. > I've got a couple of 450mhz with only 96mb ram running RH8, and another machine, a Celeron 600mhz with 128mb ram running K12 3.1.2. The 450's are a bit slow, but the 600Celeron does fine. I've got a P100 running Damn Small Linux that runs great, too. (I'm giving these old junkers away to students, recall, except the Celeron which belongs to my daughter, turning 5 on Tuesday, who plays with GCompris, Tux Paint and other goodies all the time with it.) The 450's are in my classroom now and children use them for word processing and internet research, slide presentations, spreadsheets, drawings, and, sometimes I even let them get into the games. KBounce, KFouleggs and KAsteroids have all grown rather popular for Friday study hall time. These are standalone boxes, but they are on our mostly mac network sharing internet and printers. I haven't figured out how to get the children into their student filespace on the Mac servers, though, so we move things around via floppy or e-mail, sometimes. Also, I did have to lock them down so that a password is required to unlock the screen from kscreensaver, because they are bipassing the filtering software, and one day when I was out, a 7th grader got into some highly in appropriate websites (oops!). Now that their locked out without my password, they can only use the boxes with strict supervision. tony > Given that your XP machines are probably the newer/faster machines, what > kind of hardware to they have? > > Regards, > - Robert > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > -- Anthony Baldwin http://www.School-Library.net Freedom to Learn! -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From anthonybaldwin at snet.net Fri May 28 21:15:56 2004 From: anthonybaldwin at snet.net (anthony baldwin) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:15:56 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528190046.GA6373@sonic.net> References: <20040528093612.ZZYU8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528190046.GA6373@sonic.net> Message-ID: <40B7AC0C.7050807@snet.net> Bill Kendrick wrote: > On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 05:36:12AM -0400, Will Hatch wrote: > >>I am a 7-12th grade teacher at a small alternative school in Vermont USA. > > > >>I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm handy >>with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives and >>setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone help??? >>Thanks! > > > First off, make sure you're familiar with the numerous Linux-in-education > projects out there, if you aren't already. > > Check out sites like: > > http://schoolforge.net/ > http://seul.org/edu/ > http://www.k12ltsp.org/ Oh...I'm chopped liver, eh? There is a bit of info about various OSS projects for schools, various usefuls apps, etc., and lotso links to lots more at http://linux.school-library.net , too. Also, you can order CDs that are already burnt appropriately, if you continue to have issues creating them yourself. In fact, just reply with your address and I can send a k12 4.0.1 CD set along free of charge, just to get you started. How's that? tony -- Anthony Baldwin http://www.School-Library.net Freedom to Learn! -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From anthonybaldwin at snet.net Fri May 28 21:20:10 2004 From: anthonybaldwin at snet.net (anthony baldwin) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:20:10 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> Message-ID: <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> > > > I highly recommend Debian as a distro, since package management is a breeze. > Others may suggest other distros. I've heard a lot of good things > (and some bad ;^) ) about Gentoo for example. > Oh no! Let's not frighten off the newcomer with Debian! I've tried about 5 times to install Debian and every time has been a bust. I can never get te Xserver to run and Debian doesn't autodetect any hardware, it seems. Just installing K12 4.0.1 would be much simpler, even if he doesn't use the ltsp packages, and uses the machiens as standalone. The box on which I presently type is configured as such. I would never recommend a Deb install to a newbie... I have plenty of respect for their project and community, but, even with over 2 years using K12 and Redhat, I won't go near Debian, still. tony > > -bill! > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > -- Anthony Baldwin http://www.School-Library.net Freedom to Learn! -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From pc at pcable.net Sat May 29 02:20:41 2004 From: pc at pcable.net (Patrick Cable II) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:20:41 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net><20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> Message-ID: <001101c44523$8a2fd920$6601a8c0@eccentricity> > Oh no! Let's not frighten off the newcomer with Debian! Psh. My first distro was Slackware ;-) Patrick From mike at linuxlink.com Sat May 29 04:13:26 2004 From: mike at linuxlink.com (Michael H. Collins) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:13:26 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> Message-ID: <40B80DE6.9040906@linuxlink.com> > > Oh no! Let's not frighten off the newcomer with Debian! > I've tried about 5 times to install Debian and every time has been a > bust. I can never get te Xserver to run and Debian doesn't autodetect > any hardware, it seems. Just installing K12 4.0.1 would be much > simpler, even if he doesn't use the ltsp packages, and uses the machiens > as standalone. The box on which I presently type is configured as such. > I would never recommend a Deb install to a newbie... > I have plenty of respect for their project and community, but, even with > over 2 years using K12 and Redhat, I won't go near Debian, still. > > tony > >> >> -bill! >> > So true. Gentoo is easier than Debian i my opine. -- Michael H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy http://linuxlink.com /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email x No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) From fhkms at adelphia.net Sat May 29 10:39:57 2004 From: fhkms at adelphia.net (Will Hatch) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 6:39:57 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie Message-ID: <20040529103957.GQIU21898.mta11.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Tony, I am very pleased with the enthusiastic and friendly reception I've received from you all. This community is super helpful. I'm very excited about this project. Our agency will be better off without Bill Gates! If you want to send the k12 discs to me, please send to Vermont Achievement Center P.O. 6283 88 Park Street Rutland, VT 05702-6283 USA Attn: Will Hatch Thanks! > > From: anthony baldwin > Date: 2004/05/28 Fri PM 05:15:56 EDT > To: Open source advocacy in education and government > Subject: Re: [OS:N:] newbie > > Bill Kendrick wrote: > > On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 05:36:12AM -0400, Will Hatch wrote: > > > >>I am a 7-12th grade teacher at a small alternative school in Vermont USA. > > > > > > > >>I am interested in the k12 linux project. My problem is that i'm handy > >>with computers, but basically self-taught. Removing hard-drives and > >>setting up a server scares me. Where do I start? Can anyone help??? > >>Thanks! > > > > > > First off, make sure you're familiar with the numerous Linux-in-education > > projects out there, if you aren't already. > > > > Check out sites like: > > > > http://schoolforge.net/ > > http://seul.org/edu/ > > http://www.k12ltsp.org/ > > Oh...I'm chopped liver, eh? > There is a bit of info about various OSS projects for schools, various > usefuls apps, etc., and lotso links to lots more at > http://linux.school-library.net , too. > Also, you can order CDs that are already burnt appropriately, if you > continue to have issues creating them yourself. > In fact, just reply with your address and I can send a k12 4.0.1 CD set > along free of charge, just to get you started. How's that? > > tony > -- > Anthony Baldwin > http://www.School-Library.net > Freedom to Learn! > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ > PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > > From anthonybaldwin at snet.net Sat May 29 12:32:46 2004 From: anthonybaldwin at snet.net (anthony baldwin) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:32:46 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <001101c44523$8a2fd920$6601a8c0@eccentricity> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net><20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> <001101c44523$8a2fd920$6601a8c0@eccentricity> Message-ID: <40B882EE.8080007@snet.net> Patrick Cable II wrote: >>Oh no! Let's not frighten off the newcomer with Debian! > > > Psh. My first distro was Slackware ;-) > > Patrick You're a brave man... -- Anthony Baldwin http://www.School-Library.net Freedom to Learn! -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From anthonybaldwin at snet.net Sat May 29 12:36:11 2004 From: anthonybaldwin at snet.net (anthony baldwin) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:36:11 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B80DE6.9040906@linuxlink.com> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> <40B80DE6.9040906@linuxlink.com> Message-ID: <40B883BB.6010401@snet.net> Michael H. Collins wrote: > >> >> Oh no! Let's not frighten off the newcomer with Debian! >> I've tried about 5 times to install Debian and every time has been a >> bust. I can never get te Xserver to run and Debian doesn't autodetect >> any hardware, it seems. Just installing K12 4.0.1 would be much >> simpler, even if he doesn't use the ltsp packages, and uses the >> machiens as standalone. The box on which I presently type is >> configured as such. >> I would never recommend a Deb install to a newbie... >> I have plenty of respect for their project and community, but, even >> with over 2 years using K12 and Redhat, I won't go near Debian, still. >> >> tony >> >>> >>> -bill! >>> >> > So true. Gentoo is easier than Debian i my opine. > I've only tried Gentoo on my iBook with a Live CD. It wouldn't give me 1024x768 res, for some reason. I don't know if it had trouble with the LCD screen or what, but otherwise it works quite well. One thing I don't understand is, if these Debian based Knoppix discs can autodetect everything, and if Deb-based Xandros/Corel Linux and other Deb-based distros can have a nice graphical install, why hasn't Debian grown to to include these features? tony -- Anthony Baldwin http://www.School-Library.net Freedom to Learn! -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From anthonybaldwin at snet.net Sat May 29 12:41:18 2004 From: anthonybaldwin at snet.net (anthony baldwin) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:41:18 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <20040529103957.GQIU21898.mta11.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> References: <20040529103957.GQIU21898.mta11.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <40B884EE.8000508@snet.net> Will Hatch wrote: > Tony, > > I am very pleased with the enthusiastic and friendly reception I've received from you all. This community is super helpful. I'm very excited about this project. Our agency will be better off without Bill Gates! If you want to send the k12 discs to me, please send to > > Vermont Achievement Center > P.O. 6283 > 88 Park Street > Rutland, VT > 05702-6283 > USA > Attn: Will Hatch > > Thanks! > > No problem. I'll try to have them in the mail by Tuesday. Just wait, you're going to LOVE this project! I do! The software is GREAT and the people are pretty cool, too! If you haven't already done so, be sure to join the K12ltsp listserve, too: https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn Tell 'em tony sent you. >>In fact, just reply with your address and I can send a k12 4.0.1 CD set >>along free of charge, just to get you started. How's that? >> >>tony >>-- >>Anthony Baldwin >>http://www.School-Library.net >>Freedom to Learn! >> >>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- >>GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ >>PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? >>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >>- >>For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > -- Anthony Baldwin http://www.School-Library.net Freedom to Learn! -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From mike at linuxlink.com Sat May 29 15:38:17 2004 From: mike at linuxlink.com (Michael H. Collins) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:38:17 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B883BB.6010401@snet.net> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> <40B80DE6.9040906@linuxlink.com> <40B883BB.6010401@snet.net> Message-ID: <40B8AE69.6060906@linuxlink.com> > > I've only tried Gentoo on my iBook with a Live CD. > It wouldn't give me 1024x768 res, for some reason. I don't know if it > had trouble with the LCD screen or what, but otherwise it works quite > well. One thing I don't understand is, if these Debian based Knoppix > discs can autodetect everything, and if Deb-based Xandros/Corel Linux > and other Deb-based distros can have a nice graphical install, why > hasn't Debian grown to to include these features? > > tony As far as I can tell the debianistas think that "real men don't need no stinking autodetecting installers" I have been told that numerous times when trying to like debian. I like the debian philosophy but apparantly it gets in the way of ease of use. -- Michael H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy http://linuxlink.com /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email x No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) From anthonybaldwin at snet.net Sat May 29 15:42:28 2004 From: anthonybaldwin at snet.net (anthony baldwin) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:42:28 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B8AE69.6060906@linuxlink.com> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> <40B80DE6.9040906@linuxlink.com> <40B883BB.6010401@snet.net> <40B8AE69.6060906@linuxlink.com> Message-ID: <40B8AF64.8070509@snet.net> Michael H. Collins wrote: > >> >> I've only tried Gentoo on my iBook with a Live CD. >> It wouldn't give me 1024x768 res, for some reason. I don't know if it >> had trouble with the LCD screen or what, but otherwise it works quite >> well. One thing I don't understand is, if these Debian based Knoppix >> discs can autodetect everything, and if Deb-based Xandros/Corel Linux >> and other Deb-based distros can have a nice graphical install, why >> hasn't Debian grown to to include these features? >> >> tony > > As far as I can tell the debianistas think that "real men don't need no > stinking autodetecting installers" I have been told that numerous times > when trying to like debian. I like the debian philosophy but apparantly > it gets in the way of ease of use. > That's really a silly philosohpy when you consider that their pkg mgmt app is almost the best and easiest to use, some might argue that it is easiest. I like yum better, though...If real mean don't need no stinkin' gui stuff, why not manage all packages by dling and compiling sources? -- Anthony Baldwin http://www.School-Library.net Freedom to Learn! -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GED$/L/P/FA d? s: a C++ L++ W++ N++ K- w--- M+ PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP- t+ tv-- b++(b++++) D? G e++++ h++ r--- y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From mike at linuxlink.com Sat May 29 15:59:03 2004 From: mike at linuxlink.com (Michael H. Collins) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:59:03 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B8AF64.8070509@snet.net> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> <40B80DE6.9040906@linuxlink.com> <40B883BB.6010401@snet.net> <40B8AE69.6060906@linuxlink.com> <40B8AF64.8070509@snet.net> Message-ID: <40B8B347.2000508@linuxlink.com> anthony baldwin wrote: > Michael H. Collins wrote: > > That's really a silly philosohpy when you consider that their pkg mgmt > app is almost the best and easiest to use, some might argue that it is > easiest. I like yum better, though...If real mean don't need no > stinkin' gui stuff, why not manage all packages by dling and compiling > sources? > Exactly. -- Michael H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy http://linuxlink.com /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email x No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Sat May 29 18:04:22 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:04:22 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] newbie In-Reply-To: <40B882EE.8080007@snet.net> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net> <20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net> <001101c44523$8a2fd920$6601a8c0@eccentricity> <40B882EE.8080007@snet.net> Message-ID: <40B8D0A6.7010109@linuxquebec.com> anthony baldwin wrote: > Patrick Cable II wrote: > >>> Oh no! Let's not frighten off the newcomer with Debian! >> >> >> >> Psh. My first distro was Slackware ;-) >> >> Patrick > > > You're a brave man... Or an old fart ! I got my first try at Linux running Slackware 3.0 in 1997. Back then, Slackware was as user-friendly as Linux could get ... From x8784 at yahoo.com Sat May 29 23:37:07 2004 From: x8784 at yahoo.com (samar z) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OS:N:] slightly OT, windows Re: open-source-now-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <20040528211931.148E773AC8@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20040529233707.80593.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com> > > Based on what I heard about Windows at a Linux user group meeting I > attended > > last night, that's _way_ different from the Windows experience, > where you > > can't even install a compiler to do software development if you > have the > > so-called "Home Edition" of the XP Operating System. (That seems > so > > arbitrary and stupid... but, I'm used to the free- and open-ness of > Linux, > > I guess...?) > > The only limitation I know about XP Home Edition is that it can't > join a > domain (Active Directory or NT4 domain). Maybe Visual Studio will > refuse to install on HE, but then I can't see how it could prevent > the > user from installing MinGW or some other [F|f]ree compiler. First, am a happy user of Slackware, Gentoo and recently Gentoo and Fedora linuxes as well. Far be it from me to want to defend Gates and crew, but it is important to have the facts straight so I thought I should mention that my brother has Win XP Home on his machine and installed Visual Studio .net on it which works for standalone app development. IIS, however, will not run, so setting it up for web app development is non-trivial (I hesitate to say impossible bc I did not try very hard). Apologies if this is not of general interest, I just feel that zealousness for linux should not cause us to rely on incorrect information about MS products. That tends to be counterproductive IME. Samar __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From pc at pcable.net Sun May 30 00:36:32 2004 From: pc at pcable.net (Patrick Cable II) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 20:36:32 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: newbie References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net><20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net><001101c44523$8a2fd920$6601a8c0@eccentricity><40B882EE.8080007@snet.net> <40B8D0A6.7010109@linuxquebec.com> Message-ID: <000c01c445de$27ff3730$6601a8c0@eccentricity> > Or an old fart ! I got my first try at Linux running Slackware 3.0 in > 1997. Back then, Slackware was as user-friendly as Linux could get ... I started with 3.5 ;-) Redhat was at the 5.7-5.8 stages i believe. Patrick From pc at pcable.net Sun May 30 00:44:56 2004 From: pc at pcable.net (Patrick Cable II) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 20:44:56 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] OSS where I work/learn Message-ID: <003701c445df$544e55e0$6601a8c0@eccentricity> Hi list, A while ago i asked about exchange replacements. Well, they ended up going with exchange. So, by the end of summer, my qmail/vpopmail server goes to the bitbucket :-\ But the web will stay on the machine I set up. I tried to get them to use Asterisk for the VoIP but they're spending big bucks on Cisco stuff. Usually when I suggest OSS stuff i get "You and your Open Source stuff... it's so much easier when you can just blame a software company when it doesnt work." I get the impression that the person I work with doesn't take it too seriously. Maybe it's because a high school student is recommending it to him, but, i also have a job with one of the other schools in the same district, so i must be doing *something* right, hah. I'm not quite sure if i had a point with this note, but rather to vent some frustration to a list that probably shares it at times. Patrick (emailing using a smtp server with a 120 day uptime that he set up with qmail/vpopmail) From mike at linuxlink.com Sun May 30 18:58:35 2004 From: mike at linuxlink.com (Michael H. Collins) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:58:35 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: newbie In-Reply-To: <000c01c445de$27ff3730$6601a8c0@eccentricity> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net><20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net><001101c44523$8a2fd920$6601a8c0@eccentricity><40B882EE.8080007@snet.net> <40B8D0A6.7010109@linuxquebec.com> <000c01c445de$27ff3730$6601a8c0@eccentricity> Message-ID: <40BA2EDB.4030209@linuxlink.com> Patrick Cable II wrote: >>Or an old fart ! I got my first try at Linux running Slackware 3.0 in >>1997. Back then, Slackware was as user-friendly as Linux could get ... > > > I started with 3.5 ;-) Redhat was at the 5.7-5.8 stages i believe. > > Patrick > > > > Anyone remember ygdrassil? My first distro. -- Michael H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy http://linuxlink.com /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email x No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) From damiano at verzulli.it Mon May 31 08:42:20 2004 From: damiano at verzulli.it (Damiano Verzulli) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:42:20 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] OSS where I work/learn In-Reply-To: <003701c445df$544e55e0$6601a8c0@eccentricity> References: <003701c445df$544e55e0$6601a8c0@eccentricity> Message-ID: <40BAEFEC.50802@verzulli.it> Patrick Cable II wrote: > Hi list, > > A while ago i asked about exchange replacements. Well, they ended up > going with exchange. So, by the end of summer, my qmail/vpopmail server goes > to the bitbucket :-\ But the web will stay on the machine I set up. > I tried to get them to use Asterisk for the VoIP but they're spending > big bucks on Cisco stuff. > Usually when I suggest OSS stuff i get "You and your Open Source > stuff... it's so much easier when you can just blame a software company when > it doesnt work." I get the impression that the person I work with doesn't > take it too seriously. Dear Patrick, I spent most of the saturday morning of last 4/5 years trying to "push" FS/OSS software and technologies within a local High-School, here in Italy. I'll not bother you with my experience but.... it has been difficult, _VERY_ difficult, incredibly _very_ difficult to (try to) convince various teachers to "adopt" OSS not only troughout the school (as a web server, mail server, file server, etc.), but also as a "teaching tool" for their students (moving from teaching Visual**, Access, etc. to WebProgramming with PHP, Perl, Python, *SQL, etc.). I had very few successes. Probably the most important ones comes directly from the students (...and not from the teachers) but, at least for me, this is enough. And this alone still give me the "energy" needed to continue my "dissemination" process. Your position should be very different: you're "playing" on a totally different field as, contrary to me, you're a teacher and, so, you "play" from the inside of the school. Your voice, even if at the moment seem to be not listened, is much more powerful then mine (I act as an ex student and I'm not a teacher...). I think that you only need to "know your enemy". For example, you can study this resolution: http://orange.math.buffalo.edu/csc/resolution2_april2003_approved.html and get, from it, some very nice arguments to put on the table when your collegue will argue that "M$ is better...". You can also study a bit of history here: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/raymond.html http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/toc.html The web is plently of documents like these. You can also find other arguments when speaking about costs (just google aroung with "linux TCO"). There are also lot of other interesting things here: http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html Anyway, again, be prepared: it will be a very hard battle! (...but you can win, at least in a school!) Cheers, Damiano -- Damiano Verzulli e-mail: damiano at verzulli.it --- possible?ok:while(!possible){open_mindedness++} --- "...Science, after all, is ultimately an Open Source enterprise..." 'Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution' - Introduction [http://www.openresources.com/documents/open-sources/main.html] From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Mon May 31 13:18:35 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:18:35 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] slightly OT, windows Re: open-source-now-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <20040529233707.80593.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040529233707.80593.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40BB30AB.7020701@linuxquebec.com> samar z wrote: > Apologies if this is not of general interest, I just feel that > zealousness for linux should not cause us to rely on incorrect > information about MS products. That tends to be counterproductive IME. Indeed. I concur entirely. It is hard, however, to keep an up-to-date opinion on the state of Windows for those of us who don't use it, or use it very little. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Mon May 31 13:54:53 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:54:53 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] OSS where I work/learn In-Reply-To: <003701c445df$544e55e0$6601a8c0@eccentricity> References: <003701c445df$544e55e0$6601a8c0@eccentricity> Message-ID: <40BB392D.8030305@linuxquebec.com> Patrick Cable II wrote: > I tried to get them to use Asterisk for the VoIP but they're spending > big bucks on Cisco stuff. There are other cost in software deployement beside acquisition. They may feel that Cisco provide a better value when cost is amortized. Wheter this is true or not (probably not) is another discussion entirely, but the bottom line is that they did not thought Asterix provide a good value proposition. Actually, these kind of decision are not taken entirely on merit, so you must also consider other factor : office politic, job security, etc. This is especially true if you bring a disruptive solution to the table. > Usually when I suggest OSS stuff i get "You and your Open Source > stuff... it's so much easier when you can just blame a software company when > it doesnt work." Yep. You are facing the CYA (Cover Your A**) attitude. There is not much you can do about it because, apparently, people in charge have chosen not to take responsability for the IT solution they are supposed to provide. Doc Searl (a Linux Journal columnist) often talk about how Linux is making headway in DIY (Do It Youself) IT department. While I agree with him that Linux and OSS is very empowering for people willing to take their IT in their own hand, it must always be kept in mind that this attitude is not generalized. I would tend to believe there are more CYA IT shop than DIY one. Considering you seem to be of the DIY breed, I suggest you start looking for opportunity outside of your current employer. I understand that, as an high school student, you may not have much choice of employer. But at least keep in mind that there _is_ people taking IT in their own hand, and look for opportunity with these people. > I get the impression that the person I work with doesn't > take it too seriously. Maybe it's because a high school student is > recommending it to him, but, i also have a job with one of the other schools > in the same district, so i must be doing *something* right, hah. Your student status certainly does not help. Considering the handicap you start with, building credibility will be an uphill battle ... On the other hand, I am surprised to see an high-school student as eloquent and (apparently) capable with Linux. I'll hire you in a heart-beat (if I where in a position to hire, that is). :) Regarding your employer, I think the best way to introduce OSS in such an environment is to propose non-disruptive pilot project. The fact that OSS have no upfront acquisition cost make them ideal for these projects. Try to find where IT is currently lacking and propose to test a pilot to fix it. Insist on the fact that there is no cost involved beside some discarded hardware and your time. Also insist that you are taking full responsability for the well-being of the project. That way: 1. It will not be their problem (it will be yours), and 2. It will cost (next to) nothing, so why not ? Good luck with your advocacy. If you are willing to discuss specific projects, I am sure the list would love to hear about it. Maybe we can help make a better case for OSS in your organization. Regards, -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Mon May 31 14:07:11 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:07:11 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] [Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)] Message-ID: <40BB3C0F.8010009@linuxquebec.com> Sorry if I post this to the list, but I can't dig the administrative address for this list. Could an admin remove this guys from list ? I receive this error report every time I send a post to the list. Thanks ! -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: postmaster at omnisys.co.uk Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:50:29 +0100 Size: 10499 URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Mon May 31 14:10:11 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:10:11 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: newbie In-Reply-To: <000c01c445de$27ff3730$6601a8c0@eccentricity> References: <20040528165319.GDZW8065.mta10.adelphia.net@mail.adelphia.net><20040528200046.GD6373@sonic.net> <40B7AD0A.90908@snet.net><001101c44523$8a2fd920$6601a8c0@eccentricity><40B882EE.8080007@snet.net> <40B8D0A6.7010109@linuxquebec.com> <000c01c445de$27ff3730$6601a8c0@eccentricity> Message-ID: <40BB3CC3.1070902@linuxquebec.com> Patrick Cable II wrote: >>Or an old fart ! I got my first try at Linux running Slackware 3.0 in >>1997. Back then, Slackware was as user-friendly as Linux could get ... > > > I started with 3.5 ;-) Redhat was at the 5.7-5.8 stages i believe. Sorry for the nitpicking, but there never was a RedHat 5.7-5.8. IIRC, it got from 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, etc. For some RedHat flashback, check their FTP archive at ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/. It goes back to 1.0 ! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Mon May 31 16:53:12 2004 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:53:12 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] OSS where I work/learn In-Reply-To: <40BB392D.8030305@linuxquebec.com> Message-ID: <00E121F4-B323-11D8-9615-000A95880F88@alum.calberkeley.org> On Monday, May 31, 2004, at 08:54 US/Central, Etienne Goyer wrote: > Regarding your employer, I think the best way to introduce OSS in such > an environment is to propose non-disruptive pilot project. One way to go about creating a non-disruptive pilot project is to run Cooperative Linux, which is a virtual machine allowing you to run Linux under Windows (NT, 2k, XP). http://colinux.org CoLinux consists of two parts: the Windows binaries and a filesystem image, which you can download separately from the colinux site. I've created some prepackaged bundles which contain the binaries, a Debian-based filesystem, and some tweaks to enable TAP networking from the start. You can find instructions on how to get and install a bundle here: http://colinux.org/wiki/index.php/PreBuiltBundles You can also find notes on various setups that I have tried, including a few with X11 here: http://cwelug.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?CoLinux For a screenshot of my colinux environment: http://cwelug.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?X11_Colinux_Win2k_Osx > Good luck with your advocacy. If you are willing to discuss specific > projects, I am sure the list would love to hear about it. Maybe we > can help make a better case for OSS in your organization. One of the advantages of CoLinux is that you can have on-line installfests. See "On-line Installfest with CoLinux" at http://cwelug.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?CoLinux If anyone is up for one, e-mail this list or the colinux-users list. Regards, - Robert From derzhavets at hotmail.com Fri Jun 4 15:37:04 2004 From: derzhavets at hotmail.com (Boris Derzhavets) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:37:04 +0000 Subject: [OS:N:] Multithreaded RPC Servers for Linux.Thread-safe code writing Message-ID: This article is supposed to give a positive answer for the question 23.10 from [1] Chapter "RPC". Actually code published in [1] utilizes static variables what causes question 23.10 from [1] (about multhreaded implementation of RPC Server under Linux) to produce some confusion. Originally only two files are taken from [1]: rdict.x and rdict_srp.c. All business logic is implemented into rdict_client.c - file generated by command: $ rpcgen -a -M rdict.x Files rdict.c and rdict_cif.c (see [1] , Chapter "RPC") are taken out to highlight the core of RPC technology either "Sun" or "DCE" Remember -A option of rpcgen is not supported under Linux.Library calls providing by SunOS RPC to build Multithreaded RPC Server are unavailable under Linux as well. I've never got a chance to take a look at "Sun RPC" or "DCE RPC" libraries code My guess would be that code developed bellow could be very helpfull for Linux developers at this time. It gives just an example how to manage under Linux. Source of rdict.x: const MAXWORD=50; const DICTSIZ=100; struct example{ int exfield1; char exfield2; }; program RDICTPROG { version RDICTVERS { int INITW(void)=1; int INSERTW(string)=2; int DELETEW(string)=3; int LOOKUPW(string)=4; } =1; } =0x30090949; Source of rdict_srp.c : #include < rpc/rpc.h> #include < string.h> #include "rdict.h" char dict[DICTSIZ][MAXWORD+1]; static char snd[50]; static int lns; int nwords=0; int initw() { nwords=0; return 1; } int insertw(char *word) { strcpy(dict[nwords],word); nwords++; return nwords; } int deletew(char *word) { int i; for(i=0;i < nwords;i++) if(strcmp(word,dict[i])==0) { nwords--; strcpy(dict[i],dict[nwords]); return 1; } return 0; } int lookupw(char *word) { int i; for(i=0;i < nwords;i++) if(strcmp(word,dict[i])==0) return 1; return 0; } rdictprog_1_freeresult(SVCXPRT *transp,xdrproc_t xdr_result, caddr_t result) { xdr_free(xdr_result,result); return(1); } Call rpcgen to generate stubs ,header file rdict.h and rdict_xdr: $rpcgen -a -M rdict.x Modified files on server's side follows bellow: File rdict_sif.c contains thread-safe code instead of utilizing static variables for to return results to client. /* * rdict_sif.c (compare with file rdict_sif.c in [1] chapter "RPC") */ #include < rpc/rpc.h> #define RPC_SVC #include "rdict.h" int initw(void),insertw(char *),deletew(char *),lookupw(char *); bool_t insertw_1_svc(char **w,int *ptr_retcode,struct svc_req *rqstp) { *ptr_retcode=insertw(*(char **)w); return(TRUE); } bool_t initw_1_svc(void *w,int *ptr_retcode,struct svc_req *rqstp) { *ptr_retcode=initw(); return(TRUE); } bool_t deletew_1_svc(char **w,int *ptr_retcode,struct svc_req *rqstp) { *ptr_retcode=deletew(*(char **)w); return(TRUE); } bool_t lookupw_1_svc(char **w,int *ptr_retcode,struct svc_req *rqstp) { *ptr_retcode=lookupw(*(char **)w); return(TRUE); } Modified server's stub is file rdict_svc.c . Multithreaded version /* Modified rdict_svc.c * * Please do not edit this file. * It was generated using rpcgen. */ #include "rdict.h" #include < stdio.h> #include < stdlib.h> #include < rpc/pmap_clnt.h> #include < string.h> #include < memory.h> #include < sys/socket.h> #include < netinet/in.h> #ifndef SIG_PF #define SIG_PF void(*)(int) #endif pthread_t p_thread; pthread_attr_t attr; /* Procedure to be run by thread */ void * serv_request(void *data) { struct thr_data { struct svc_req *rqstp; SVCXPRT *transp; } *ptr_data; union { char *insertw_1_arg; char *deletew_1_arg; char *lookupw_1_arg; char *showupw_1_arg; char *getlenw_1_arg; } argument; union { int initw_1_res; int insertw_1_res; int deletew_1_res; int lookupw_1_res; char showupw_1_res; int getlenw_1_res; } result; bool_t retval; xdrproc_t _xdr_argument, _xdr_result; bool_t (*local)(char *, void *, struct svc_req *); ptr_data = (struct thr_data *)data; struct svc_req *rqstp = ptr_data-> rqstp; register SVCXPRT *transp = ptr_data-> transp; switch (rqstp-> rq_proc) { case NULLPROC: (void) svc_sendreply (transp, (xdrproc_t) xdr_void, (char *)NULL); return; case INITW: _xdr_argument = (xdrproc_t) xdr_void; _xdr_result = (xdrproc_t) xdr_int; local = (bool_t (*) (char *, void *, struct svc_req *))initw_1_svc; break; case INSERTW: _xdr_argument = (xdrproc_t) xdr_wrapstring; _xdr_result = (xdrproc_t) xdr_int; local = (bool_t (*) (char *, void *, struct svc_req *))insertw_1_svc; break; case DELETEW: _xdr_argument = (xdrproc_t) xdr_wrapstring; _xdr_result = (xdrproc_t) xdr_int; local = (bool_t (*) (char *, void *, struct svc_req *))deletew_1_svc; break; case LOOKUPW: _xdr_argument = (xdrproc_t) xdr_wrapstring; _xdr_result = (xdrproc_t) xdr_int; local = (bool_t (*) (char *, void *, struct svc_req *))lookupw_1_svc; break; default: svcerr_noproc (transp); return; } memset ((char *)&argument, 0, sizeof (argument)); if (!svc_getargs (transp, (xdrproc_t) _xdr_argument, (caddr_t) &argument)) { svcerr_decode (transp); return; } retval = (bool_t) (*local)((char *)&argument, (void *)&result, rqstp); if (retval > 0 && !svc_sendreply(transp, (xdrproc_t) _xdr_result, (char *)&result)) { svcerr_systemerr (transp); } if (!svc_freeargs (transp, (xdrproc_t) _xdr_argument, (caddr_t) &argument)) { fprintf (stderr, "%s", "unable to free arguments"); exit (1); } if (!rdictprog_1_freeresult (transp, _xdr_result, (caddr_t) &result)) fprintf (stderr, "%s", "unable to free results"); return; } /* New code for procedure rdictprog_1 , starting thread in response for each clients request to invoke remote procedure */ static void rdictprog_1(struct svc_req *rqstp, register SVCXPRT *transp) { struct data_str { struct svc_req *rqstp; SVCXPRT *transp; } *data_ptr=(struct data_str*)malloc(sizeof(struct data_str)); data_ptr-> rqstp = rqstp; data_ptr-> transp = transp; pthread_attr_setdetachstate(&attr,PTHREAD_CREATE_DETACHED); pthread_create(&p_thread,&attr,serv_request,(void *)data_ptr); } int main (int argc, char **argv) { register SVCXPRT *transp; pmap_unset (RDICTPROG, RDICTVERS); transp = svcudp_create(RPC_ANYSOCK); if (transp == NULL) { fprintf (stderr, "%s", "cannot create udp service."); exit(1); } if (!svc_register(transp, RDICTPROG, RDICTVERS, rdictprog_1, IPPROTO_UDP)) { fprintf (stderr, "%s", "unable to register (RDICTPROG, RDICTVERS, udp)."); exit(1); } transp = svctcp_create(RPC_ANYSOCK, 0, 0); if (transp == NULL) { fprintf (stderr, "%s", "cannot create tcp service."); exit(1); } if (!svc_register(transp, RDICTPROG, RDICTVERS, rdictprog_1, IPPROTO_TCP)) { fprintf (stderr, "%s", "unable to register (RDICTPROG, RDICTVERS, tcp)."); exit(1); } svc_run (); fprintf (stderr, "%s", "svc_run returned"); exit (1); /* NOTREACHED */ } Compile server: $ gcc -o ServerDT rdict_svc.c rdict_sif.c rdict_srp.c rdict_xdr.c -lpthread -lnsl Modified code of rdict_client.c with implemented business logic. Template has been already generated by "rpcgen -a -M rdict.x" /* File rdict_client.c versus rdict.c&rdict_cif from [1] chapter "RPC" * * This is sample code generated by rpcgen. * These are only templates and you can use them * as a guideline for developing your own functions. */ #include "rdict.h" #define MAXWORD 50 char buf[80]; void rdictprog_1(char *host) { CLIENT *clnt; enum clnt_stat retval_1; int result_1; char *initw_1_arg="0"; enum clnt_stat retval_2; int result_2; char * insertw_1_arg; enum clnt_stat retval_3; int result_3; char * deletew_1_arg; enum clnt_stat retval_4; int result_4; char * lookupw_1_arg; int ch; char cmd; char word[MAXWORD+1]; int wrdlen; #ifndef DEBUG clnt = clnt_create (host, RDICTPROG, RDICTVERS, "udp"); if (clnt == NULL) { clnt_pcreateerror (host); exit (1); } #endif /* DEBUG */ while(1) { wrdlen=nextin(&cmd,word); if(wrdlen < 0) exit(0); word[wrdlen]='\0'; switch(buf[0]) { case 'I': retval_1 = initw_1((void*)&initw_1_arg, &result_1, clnt); if (retval_1 != RPC_SUCCESS) { clnt_perror (clnt, "call failed"); } if (result_1 == 1) printf("Dictionary was initialized \n"); else printf("Dictionary failed to initialize \n"); break; case 'i': insertw_1_arg=word; retval_2 = insertw_1(&insertw_1_arg, &result_2, clnt); if (retval_2 != RPC_SUCCESS) { clnt_perror (clnt, "call failed"); } if (result_2 > 0 ) printf("Insert was done\n"); else printf("Insert failed\n"); break; case 'd': deletew_1_arg=word; retval_3 = deletew_1(&deletew_1_arg, &result_3, clnt); if (retval_3 != RPC_SUCCESS) { clnt_perror (clnt, "call failed"); } if (result_3 == 1 ) printf("Delete was done\n"); else printf("Delete failed\n"); break; case 'l': lookupw_1_arg=word; retval_4 = lookupw_1(&lookupw_1_arg, &result_4, clnt); if (retval_4 != RPC_SUCCESS) { clnt_perror (clnt, "call failed"); } if (result_4 == 1) printf("Word '%s' was found\n",word); else printf("Word '%s' was not found\n",word); break; case 'q': printf("Programm quits \n"); exit(0); default: printf("Command invalid\n"); break; } } #ifndef DEBUG clnt_destroy (clnt); #endif /* DEBUG */ } int nextin(char *cmd,char *word) { int i,ch; printf("\n"); printf("***** Make a choice ******\n"); printf("1. I(initialize dictionary)\n"); printf("2. i(inserting word) \n"); printf("3. l(looking for word)\n"); printf("4. d(deleting word)\n"); printf("5. q(quit)\n"); printf("***************************\n"); printf("Command prompt => \t"); ch=getc(stdin); while(isspace(ch)) ch=getc(stdin); if(ch==EOF) return -1; *cmd=(char)ch; sprintf(buf,"%s",cmd); if(buf[0] == 'q' || buf[0] == 'I') return 0; printf("*****************\n"); printf("Analysing Command\n"); printf("*****************\n"); if(buf[0]=='i' || buf[0]=='l'|| buf[0]=='d') { printf("Input word => \t"); } else { return 0; } ch=getc(stdin); while(isspace(ch)) ch=getc(stdin); if(ch==EOF) return -1; if(ch=='\n') return 0; i=0; while(!isspace(ch)) { if(++i> MAXWORD) { printf("Error word to long.\n"); exit(1); } *word++=ch; ch=getc(stdin); } return i; } int main (int argc, char *argv[]) { char *host; if (argc < 2) { printf ("usage: %s server_host\n", argv[0]); exit (1); } host = argv[1]; rdictprog_1 (host); exit (0); } Compile client: $ gcc -o CientDT rdict_client.c rdict_clnt.c rdict_xdr.c -lnsl Now we are ready for testing References. 1.Douglas E. Comer,David L. Stevens Internet Working with TCP/IP ,vol 3 Client-Server Programming and application Linux/Posix Socket Version, Prentice Hall,Inc. 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com Fri Jun 4 15:40:44 2004 From: etienne.goyer at linuxquebec.com (Etienne Goyer) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 11:40:44 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Multithreaded RPC Servers for Linux.Thread-safe code writing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40C097FC.5050808@linuxquebec.com> Boris Derzhavets wrote: > This article is supposed to give a positive answer for the question > 23.10 from [1] Chapter "RPC". Wrong list, I suppose. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mfioretti at mclink.it Mon Jun 7 11:36:41 2004 From: mfioretti at mclink.it (M. Fioretti) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:36:41 +0200 Subject: [OS:N:] The RULE project is back Message-ID: <20040607113641.GA2575@mclink.it> Greetings, I'm happy to announce that the RULE project (modern Free SW on donated HW, for schools, NGOs and everybody else) finally has a whole new website, hopefully much more helpful and easier to both use and update. It still has a _lot_ of broken links (please be patient, signal them to me off list), and no, we haven't updated the installer for FC2 yet, but at least now it should be clearer what we are trying to do and why. Hopefully, the new infrastructure will also help us to make faster the transition to FC2. To know more, just visit: http://www.rule-project.org/ Thank you in advance for any feedback Ciao, Marco Fioretti -- Marco Fioretti mfioretti, at the server mclink.it Red Hat for low memory http://www.rule-project.org/ They can't stop us... we're on a mission from God! -- The Blues Brothers From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Thu Jun 10 23:21:49 2004 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:21:49 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] collaborating to setup BitTorrent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, Mar 31, 2004, at 18:36 US/Central, Todd Warner wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Robert Citek wrote: >> So far, I've gotten a tracker running and a .torrent file made. I now >> just need to figure out how to modify my apache settings, "join" the >> web server with the tracker, and modify my NAT/FW to allow connections >> through. Where I'm stuck is that I'm not clear on how the tracker >> knows where the ISO is. >> >> That'll be tonight's project. Again, if anyone wants to pair-up to >> stumble through this together, I'm game. > > http://dag.wieers.com/packages/bittorrent/ I forgot to follow up on this. I wrote up a case study on how I installed a tracker to serve up BitTorrents on Red Hat Fedora Core 1: http://cwelug.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?BTonRHFC1 For a full list of available torrents, see: http://www.cwelug.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?Downloads and download statistics (since May 9th): http://www.cwelug.org:6969/ Thanks, Todd, for your pointer. Regards, - Robert From JKane at sbschools.net Thu Jun 10 23:23:02 2004 From: JKane at sbschools.net (Jake Kane) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:23:02 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] collaborating to setup BitTorrent (Vacation) Message-ID: Dear sender, I am out of the office until Monday June 14th. If you need help with service please contact 652-7050. Thanks, Jake >>> open-source-now-list 06/10/04 19:21 >>> On Wednesday, Mar 31, 2004, at 18:36 US/Central, Todd Warner wrote: > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Robert Citek wrote: >> So far, I've gotten a tracker running and a .torrent file made. I now >> just need to figure out how to modify my apache settings, "join" the >> web server with the tracker, and modify my NAT/FW to allow connections >> through. Where I'm stuck is that I'm not clear on how the tracker >> knows where the ISO is. >> >> That'll be tonight's project. Again, if anyone wants to pair-up to >> stumble through this together, I'm game. > > http://dag.wieers.com/packages/bittorrent/ I forgot to follow up on this. I wrote up a case study on how I installed a tracker to serve up BitTorrents on Red Hat Fedora Core 1: http://cwelug.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?BTonRHFC1 For a full list of available torrents, see: http://www.cwelug.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?Downloads and download statistics (since May 9th): http://www.cwelug.org:6969/ Thanks, Todd, for your pointer. Regards, - Robert _______________________________________________ Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ - For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: This email may contain information protected under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) or the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If this email contains confidential and/or privileged health or student information and you are not entitled to access such information under FERPA or HIPAA, federal regulations require that you destroy this email without reviewing it and you may not forward it to anyone.