From jay at scherrer.com Sat Jul 9 21:47:05 2005 From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:47:05 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] IP indemnification Message-ID: <1120945625.3017.44.camel@gimly.scherco.local> Lists, Just coming from an eye opening discussion at GSLUG covering the still threatening legal issues concerning Open source software and Linux. I got what I call a "Bulletin". I had just gotten home and checked my US mail. Microsoft had sent me a copy of their indemnification policy. Probably other persons on this list have received one also. My question as a struggling open software consultant, how do we counteract with this type of negative advertisement against Open source software. Below are snippets of the enclosed letter titled: Insufficient intellectual property rights could be putting your company at risk. As you may be aware, end-user customers can be sued for their "unauthorized" use of intellectual property (IP) rights contained in software and operating systems products. Then the letter goes on to discus Open Source Software: "Discuss this issue with your IT staff to see if your company has deployed "Open Source" software. Open Source software vendors provide no , or very limited , IP indemnification. Deploying open source software that your organization downloads or copies free of charge typically means your organization receives no indemnification at all." The letter then points to a links at www.getthefacts.com/report and www.getthefacts.com/protect Included with this is a brief document explaining Microsoft's commitment to the end user. Jay Scherrer From jkinz at kinz.org Sun Jul 10 01:19:24 2005 From: jkinz at kinz.org (Jeff Kinz) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 21:19:24 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] IP indemnification In-Reply-To: <1120945625.3017.44.camel@gimly.scherco.local>; from jay@scherrer.com on Sat, Jul 09, 2005 at 02:47:05PM -0700 References: <1120945625.3017.44.camel@gimly.scherco.local> Message-ID: <20050709211924.A2287@redline.comcast.net> On Sat, Jul 09, 2005 at 02:47:05PM -0700, Jay Scherrer wrote: > Lists, > > Just coming from an eye opening discussion at GSLUG covering the still > threatening legal issues concerning Open source software and Linux. I > got what I call a "Bulletin". > > I had just gotten home and checked my US mail. Microsoft had sent me a > copy of their indemnification policy. Probably other persons on this > list have received one also. My question as a struggling open software > consultant, how do we counteract with this type of negative > advertisement against Open source software. SCO is doing an excellent job of counteracting the intellectual property rights FUD around Linux. : see http://www.groklaw.com Also some of the statements you snipped from Microsoft's stuff can be shown to be substantially false. For example the idea that open source vendors provide no IP indemnification or only limited IP indemnification , is totally laughable. This is made very clear by looking at IBM and Hewlett-Packard. In 2004 IBM made $96 billion dollars and HP made $80 Billion dollars for a total of $176 Billion dollars. In 2004 Microsoft made $36.84 Billion, much less than either and only a fraction of the combined companies. OK, so shat? So both IBM and HP provide total IP indemnification for any Linux products their customers buy. Clearly Microsoft's statements in this area have little to no contact with reality and they're (MS) statements are not to be at all trusted in this area. So what is the final take away from all this? Knowledgeable companies, many times larger than Microsoft, with years of experience in intellectual property matters, (IBM is one of the most prolific companies with regards to technology patents, in the world), already know that Linux is "IP safe". The people who created Linux know that too. As many of us have already noticed, the GNU organization, and people like Linus Torvalds have complete confidence and faith in the processes and they used to create the open source software so many of us are using today. More to the point some open source software like that created by the GNU organization or the open BSD versions of UNIX have been widely used by many commercial entities so if there is intellectual property contamination of the software it is most likely that the open source intellectual property has been leaking into proprietary software and not the other way around. > > Below are snippets of the enclosed letter titled: Insufficient > intellectual property rights could be putting your company at risk. > > As you may be aware, end-user customers can be sued for their > "unauthorized" use of intellectual property (IP) rights contained in > software and operating systems products. > > Then the letter goes on to discus Open Source Software: > > "Discuss this issue with your IT staff to see if your company has > deployed "Open Source" software. Open Source software vendors provide > no , or very limited , IP indemnification. Deploying open source > software that your organization downloads or copies free of charge > typically means your organization receives no indemnification at all." > > The letter then points to a links at www.getthefacts.com/report and > www.getthefacts.com/protect > > Included with this is a brief document explaining Microsoft's commitment > to the end user. > > > > Jay Scherrer > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > -- speech recognition software was used in the composition of this e-mail Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. From jay at scherrer.com Thu Jul 14 03:03:35 2005 From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:03:35 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: [SLL] IP indemnification In-Reply-To: <20050711231355.164c7983.hgibson@eol.ca> References: <1120945625.3017.44.camel@gimly.scherco.local> <20050711231355.164c7983.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <1121310215.3079.37.camel@gimly.scherco.local> On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 23:13 -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:47:05 -0700 > Jay Scherrer wrote: > > > Lists, > > > > Just coming from an eye opening discussion at GSLUG covering the still > > threatening legal issues concerning Open source software and Linux. I > > got what I call a "Bulletin". > > > > I had just gotten home and checked my US mail. Microsoft had sent me a > > copy of their indemnification policy. Probably other persons on this > > list have received one also. My question as a struggling open software > > consultant, how do we counteract with this type of negative > > advertisement against Open source software. > > Jay, > > This has come up on Slashdot. > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/05/007214&tid=163&tid=187&tid=109&tid=98&tid=106 > > Here is the letter in question. attached: page1.jpg It's funny how they leave out embedded systems, probably one day more prolific then desktops. Jay Scherrer -- "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have." -Ronald Reagan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: page1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 444195 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu Thu Jul 14 14:57:21 2005 From: kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu (Kevin Cole) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:57:21 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: [SLL] IP indemnification In-Reply-To: <1121310215.3079.37.camel@gimly.scherco.local> References: <1120945625.3017.44.camel@gimly.scherco.local> <20050711231355.164c7983.hgibson@eol.ca> <1121310215.3079.37.camel@gimly.scherco.local> Message-ID: <42D67D51.4030409@gri.gallaudet.edu> Ask Microsoft which closed-source operating system (other than Windows) that they recommend. ;-) ____________________________________________________________ [This message is digitally signed with the GNU Privacy Guard (GPG). See http://www.gnupg.org/ for more info.] ____________________________________________________________ -- Kevin Cole | Key ID: 0xE6F332C7 Gallaudet University | WWW: http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/ Hall Memorial Bldg S-419 | V/TTY: (202) 651-5135 Washington, D.C. 20002-3695 | FAX: (202) 651-5746 "Using vi is not a sin. It's a penance." -- St. IGNUcious, Church of Emacs -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kjcole.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 651 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fmacunha at infranetsp.com.br Thu Jul 14 16:13:46 2005 From: fmacunha at infranetsp.com.br (Fábio Mendonça Albuquerque Cunha) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 13:13:46 -0300 Subject: [OS:N:] Problems to restore a backup from AIT Tape Drive w/ RH8.0 Message-ID: <20050714161347.3797.qmail@hm101.locaweb.com.br> Hello, I use RH 8.0, with Adaptec 19160 Ultra 160 and Sony AIT-2 to do my backups. Everything was fine, but yesterday I have to restore a file and I can?t. I can see what I have inside my tape, using #tar -tvf /dev/st0 but when I try to extract my backup using #tar -xvf /dev/st0 somedirectory/somesubdirectory/myfile I get this error messages from my /var/log/messages 90 minutes later I typed the command : Jul 14 11:27:53 servarq kernel: (scsi0:A:0:0): Unexpected busfree in Data-in phase Jul 14 11:27:53 servarq kernel: SEQADDR == 0x8c Jul 14 11:27:53 servarq kernel: st0: Error 70000 (sugg. bt 0x0, driver bt 0x0, host bt 0x7). Jul 14 11:27:53 servarq kernel: st0: Error 10000 (sugg. bt 0x0, driver bt 0x0, host bt 0x1). Jul 14 11:27:56 servarq last message repeated 9 times Jul 14 11:27:56 servarq kernel: st0: Error with sense data: Info fld=0x40, Current st09:00: sense key Unit Attention Jul 14 11:27:56 servarq kernel: Additional sense indicates Power on,reset,or bus device reset occurred Jul 14 11:27:56 servarq kernel: st0: Error with sense data: Current st09:00: sense key Not Ready Jul 14 11:27:56 servarq kernel: Additional sense indicates Medium not present I am completely lost ... Somebody could help me or simply give an idea on what is happening ???? Regards. InfraNet Tecnologia F?bio M. A. Cunha (55 11) 5542-0941 ramal 22 (55 11) 8456-5283 www.infranetsp.com.br www.fsf.org From kyle at foobox.homelinux.net Fri Jul 15 04:39:05 2005 From: kyle at foobox.homelinux.net (Kyle Liddell) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:39:05 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Problems to restore a backup from AIT Tape Drive w/ RH8.0 In-Reply-To: <20050714161347.3797.qmail@hm101.locaweb.com.br> References: <20050714161347.3797.qmail@hm101.locaweb.com.br> Message-ID: <1121402345.8836.1.camel@athlon> I would ask your question somewhere else, as this isn't really a technical discussion forum. You might try the #linuxhelp, #linux, #linpeople, or #redhat channels on irc.freenode.net, or ask on one of the redhat support mailing lists, or post to a Linux help newsgroup or forum. Kyle Liddell On Thu, 2005-07-14 at 13:13 -0300, F?bio Mendon?a Albuquerque Cunha wrote: > Hello, > I use RH 8.0, with Adaptec 19160 Ultra 160 and Sony AIT-2 to do my backups. Everything was fine, but yesterday I have to restore a file and I can?t. From pnelson at riverdale.k12.or.us Tue Aug 2 22:33:44 2005 From: pnelson at riverdale.k12.or.us (Paul Nelson) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:33:44 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] OSCON K20 Gathering - Thursday, Aug. 4th Message-ID: <42EFF4C8.7070305@riverdale.k12.or.us> I'm forwarding this invite along to any interested in open source and education: From Thor: Seeing that the 2005 O'Reilly Open Source Conference (OSCON) is taking place this week in Portland, Oregon, it's a fitting occasion for an informal gathering of local educators (K12 and HigherEd) and open source software developers. It's a chance to meet, greet, and talk with others about the needs of education for customized open source solutions that can overcome the challenges faced in today's educational environment. Clarity Innovations will host the gathering with some pizza and a few pitchers of beer. We're hoping that this discussion will yield a number of possible open-source projects which can help technology better meet the needs of education. Join us this Thursday, August 4th, 5pm PDT at Old Town Pizza Co. (www.oldtownpizza.com) It's one block west from the Old Town/Chinatown MAX station in Fareless Square, just 15 minutes from the Oregon Convention Center (where OSCON is taking place). If you have any questions, please feel free to email Thor Prichard (tprichard at clarity-innovations.com). Also, given the last-minute nature of this announcement, please feel free to forward this to other like-minded individuals. Thank you! -- Yours in Cyberspace, R. Thor Prichard Clarity Innovations, Inc. Matching promising technologies with the needs of education. tprichard at clarity-innovations.com voice 877 683-3187 x15 fax 503 224-4987 www.clarity-innovations.com -- ====================================================================== Paul Nelson - Make things better. http://pnelson.us From vlmorgan100 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 8 08:24:49 2005 From: vlmorgan100 at hotmail.com (Vicki Morgan) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 08:24:49 +0000 Subject: [OS:N:] New Member Message-ID: Greetings! I'm new to the list, so just a short introduction. Small school, recently migrated to an open source platform, on the learn-as-you-go plan. With the help of the awesome Fedora Bible I was able to build the system myself. Server works great (DHCP, NFS, and print services- no Windows machines here!). We began using open source applications a few years back, so those are familiar, although I'm still learning installation. If only it were all as easy as yum install. (Ironically I can't get gcompris running, even though it worked fine on Windows). Budget was a prime factor in migration, but I like Fedora Core so much I'm now using it on my personal machine at home. Cheers. From vlmorgan100 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 12 07:37:52 2005 From: vlmorgan100 at hotmail.com (Vicki Morgan) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:37:52 +0000 Subject: [OS:N:] Virus Protection? Message-ID: Coming from a Windows world, you would think the need for virus protection would have occurred to me earlier. FC4 on Server and Workstations; no mail or web server. Do we need protection? If yes, what? Thanks, Vicki Morgan From sampln at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 12 17:41:27 2005 From: sampln at sbcglobal.net (Lincoln Peters) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 10:41:27 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] Virus Protection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200508121041.28206.sampln@sbcglobal.net> On Friday 12 August 2005 12:37 am, Vicki Morgan wrote: > Coming from a Windows world, you would think the need for virus protection > would have occurred to me earlier. FC4 on Server and Workstations; no mail > or web server. Do we need protection? If yes, what? I use clamav. It's free, open-source, and it can detect Windows viruses as well as the rare Linux virus. I don't know if it can actually clean a virus out of an infected system, but for most server applications, I think you'd be better off just deleting the infected files. You can probably integrate clamav into your systems so that, e.g. you could automatically scan incoming mail, downloaded files, removable media, etc., but I haven't looked into this in any real detail. Furthermore, such real-time virus protection seems to take a significant toll on the performance of a Windows PC, and I don't know how it would affect the performance of a Linux PC (I suspect the effect would be less severe but still there). -- Lincoln Peters Paranoid schizophrenics outnumber their enemies at least two to one. From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Thu Aug 18 01:28:55 2005 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:28:55 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Copyright pre-registration requires Internet Explorer Message-ID: <7E68C975-2B3B-46AF-98FB-9D6E73D031EC@alum.calberkeley.org> Does anyone have a problem with IE being the only browser used to pre- register copyrighted material? From http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2005/70fr44878.html : "Today's notice seeks information as to whether persons filing the electronic-only preregistration form prescribed by the Copyright Office will experience difficulties if it is necessary to use Microsoft's Internet Explorer web browser in order to preregister a work. ... Comments are due no later than August 22, 2005. Reply comments are due no later than September 7, 2005." If so, let them know within 5 days from today. Also, you need to address these questions in your response: 1) Would you have difficulties using Internet Explorer (version 5.1 or higher) to file preregistration claims? Why? 2) Do you anticipate preregistering a claim on the electronic-only form? 3) Would you not be able to use Internet Explorer? Why not? 4) Will you choose not to preregister if it is necessary to use Internet Explorer? You may want to include some questions of your own for the copyright office, such as: Why create a non-standard method of submitting information to a public entity? Why not use a W3C standards-compliant method for submitting information[1]? Amazon.com can do it. eBay.com can do it. My bank and credit card company can do it. Why not the Copyright office? You may want to include a copy to your local congressperson[2,3]. If sent by mail, an original and five copies of any comment should be printed (yes, good old-fashioned paper) and addressed to: Copyright GC/ I&R P.O. Box 70400 Southwest Station, Washington, DC 20024-0400. If you send it by mail, do so ASAP. It will probably take five days to get there by snail mail. [1] http://www.w3.org/ [2] http://www.house.gov/writerep/ [3] http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm Regards, - Robert http://www.cwelug.org/downloads Help others get OpenSource software. Distribute FLOSS for Windows, Linux, *BSD, and MacOS X with BitTorrent From mark.weisler at comcast.net Thu Aug 18 03:50:24 2005 From: mark.weisler at comcast.net (mweisler) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:50:24 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] Copyright pre-registration requires Internet Explorer In-Reply-To: <7E68C975-2B3B-46AF-98FB-9D6E73D031EC@alum.calberkeley.org> References: <7E68C975-2B3B-46AF-98FB-9D6E73D031EC@alum.calberkeley.org> Message-ID: <200508172050.24630.mark.weisler@comcast.net> Dear Open Source Now List, Peter Garrett, and other lists, As a matter of fact I _do_ have a problem with the U.S. Government requiring that Microsoft's Internet Explorer web browser be used to preregister a copyrighted work. (See below.) Thanks for the alert. I will be writing the "authorities" and my congress people suggesting that standards based technology instead of proprietary products be used by the Government. Mark Weisler On Wednesday 17 August 2005 18:28, Robert Citek wrote: > Does anyone have a problem with IE being the only browser used to pre- > register copyrighted material? > > From http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2005/70fr44878.html : > > > "Today's notice seeks information as to whether persons filing the > electronic-only preregistration form prescribed by the Copyright > Office will experience difficulties if it is necessary to use > Microsoft's Internet Explorer web browser in order to preregister a > work. > ... > Comments are due no later than August 22, 2005. Reply comments are > due no later than September 7, 2005." > > > If so, let them know within 5 days from today. Also, you need to > address these questions in your response: > > 1) Would you have difficulties using Internet Explorer (version 5.1 > or higher) to file preregistration claims? Why? > 2) Do you anticipate preregistering a claim on the electronic-only form? > 3) Would you not be able to use Internet Explorer? Why not? > 4) Will you choose not to preregister if it is necessary to use > Internet Explorer? > > You may want to include some questions of your own for the copyright > office, such as: > > Why create a non-standard method of submitting information to a > public entity? Why not use a W3C standards-compliant method for > submitting information[1]? Amazon.com can do it. eBay.com can do > it. My bank and credit card company can do it. Why not the > Copyright office? > > You may want to include a copy to your local congressperson[2,3]. > > If sent by mail, an original and five copies of any comment should be > printed (yes, good old-fashioned paper) and addressed to: > > Copyright GC/ I&R > P.O. Box 70400 > Southwest Station, Washington, DC 20024-0400. > > If you send it by mail, do so ASAP. It will probably take five days > to get there by snail mail. > > [1] http://www.w3.org/ > [2] http://www.house.gov/writerep/ > [3] http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm > > Regards, > - Robert > http://www.cwelug.org/downloads > Help others get OpenSource software. Distribute FLOSS > for Windows, Linux, *BSD, and MacOS X with BitTorrent > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > From Bridger987 at rcn.com Thu Aug 18 19:32:20 2005 From: Bridger987 at rcn.com (Bridger Buller) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:32:20 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Copyright pre-registration requires Internet Explorer In-Reply-To: <7E68C975-2B3B-46AF-98FB-9D6E73D031EC@alum.calberkeley.org> References: <7E68C975-2B3B-46AF-98FB-9D6E73D031EC@alum.calberkeley.org> Message-ID: <4304E244.8030104@rcn.com> There was an article on Slashdot about that...they just sort of randomly made their site 'IE Only'. From sree.knowledgebase at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 11:42:29 2005 From: sree.knowledgebase at gmail.com (sree hari) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:12:29 +0530 Subject: [OS:N:] introduction to rehat community Message-ID: <9ca875d105081904423f7c70df@mail.gmail.com> Hi red hat community, This is sreehari.I am a programmer at accenture and had just got in to the road of open source.I hope i could celebrate my future days in my career with this nice community.Thanks in advance to all,helping me in my way. i could be reached at : sree.knowledgebase at gmail.com Sreehari From Kapara at worldbank.org Fri Aug 19 18:32:54 2005 From: Kapara at worldbank.org (Kapara at worldbank.org) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:32:54 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Leave Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 19/08/2005 and will not return until 09/09/2005. I'll read my mails from time to time From sujitsugathan2002 at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 01:41:04 2005 From: sujitsugathan2002 at gmail.com (sujit sugathan) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:11:04 +0530 Subject: [OS:N:] hi there Message-ID: <9f3e578105082118417ef1e28@mail.gmail.com> hi everyone. i'm sujit & i'm new to linux.i've just installed FC4 on my system but i dont know how to install new softwares. please help me out with your valuable solutions.please mail me. i can be reached at sujitsugathan2002 at gmail.com From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 14:28:29 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:28:29 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] hi there In-Reply-To: <9f3e578105082118417ef1e28@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f3e578105082118417ef1e28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <556f970a050823072860977dd5@mail.gmail.com> Sujit, Welcome! You can find a lot of information on Fedora at: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ http://fedoranews.org/mediawiki/index.php/Fedora_News_Archives http://www.fedorafaq.org/ http://www.linuxquestions.org/ --jeremy On 8/21/05, sujit sugathan wrote: > hi everyone. > i'm sujit & i'm new to linux.i've just installed FC4 on my system but > i dont know how to install new softwares. please help me out with > your valuable solutions.please mail me. > > i can be reached at sujitsugathan2002 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > From y_alem at hotmail.co.uk Tue Aug 23 17:07:51 2005 From: y_alem at hotmail.co.uk (Yousef Alem) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:07:51 +0000 Subject: [OS:N:] hi there In-Reply-To: <556f970a050823072860977dd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 19:33:31 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:33:31 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] hi there In-Reply-To: References: <556f970a050823072860977dd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <556f970a05082312336a043fb@mail.gmail.com> On 8/23/05, Yousef Alem wrote: > > > > people i'm trying to unsubscribe of this mailing list dose any one know > how??? ___________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ Go here and unsubscribe yourself ------^ --jeremy From chris at forevergalleries.com Thu Aug 25 14:24:00 2005 From: chris at forevergalleries.com (Chris Spencer) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:24:00 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Virus Protection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1124979840.3090.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've been offline for a bit and just noticed your message. Linux users have no use for virus protection other than where it is serving the Windows world. When there is a bug someone with a vested interest fixes it. Now that doesn't mean that we aren't vulnerable to attacks. Certainly if you are running a system on the net without a firewall their are avenues of attack and likely something exists that would be exploitable (known, maybe not - unknown, almost certainly). Good common sense will tell you to run a firewall that blocks everything and explicitly allows only those things you are sharing out. Even then it's a good idea, when possible, to use tcp wrappers and/or firewall rules to limit the locations from which the system may be accessed. Also make sure you get the security updates regularly. IMHO if you want to be lazy about updates then automate them so they happen everyday without your interaction and take the risk that it might break something. That's lazy of course, not the best way to do it. Still the vast majority of the time you will be better off for doing it that way than missing the updates. Thanks, -Chris On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 07:37 +0000, Vicki Morgan wrote: > Coming from a Windows world, you would think the need for virus protection > would have occurred to me earlier. FC4 on Server and Workstations; no mail > or web server. Do we need protection? If yes, what? > Thanks, > Vicki Morgan > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > From jay at scherrer.com Thu Aug 25 16:36:49 2005 From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:36:49 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] Virus Protection? In-Reply-To: <1124979840.3090.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1124979840.3090.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1124987809.3125.35.camel@gimly.scherco.local> On Thu, 2005-08-25 at 09:24 -0500, Chris Spencer wrote: > I've been offline for a bit and just noticed your message. > > Linux users have no use for virus protection other than where it is > serving the Windows world. > > When there is a bug someone with a vested interest fixes it. > > Now that doesn't mean that we aren't vulnerable to attacks. Certainly > if you are running a system on the net without a firewall their are > avenues of attack and likely something exists that would be exploitable > (known, maybe not - unknown, almost certainly). > > Good common sense will tell you to run a firewall that blocks everything > and explicitly allows only those things you are sharing out. Even then > it's a good idea, when possible, to use tcp wrappers and/or firewall > rules to limit the locations from which the system may be accessed. > > Also make sure you get the security updates regularly. IMHO if you want > to be lazy about updates then automate them so they happen everyday > without your interaction and take the risk that it might break > something. That's lazy of course, not the best way to do it. Still the > vast majority of the time you will be better off for doing it that way > than missing the updates. > > Thanks, > -Chris > > > On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 07:37 +0000, Vicki Morgan wrote: > > Coming from a Windows world, you would think the need for virus protection > > would have occurred to me earlier. FC4 on Server and Workstations; no mail > > or web server. Do we need protection? If yes, what? > > Thanks, > > Vicki Morgan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > > - > > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > Linux has been designed with security in mind. But don't let that catch you off guard. One of my Windows users tells me that the reason Windows has more viruses is because Windows is more popular over Linux. If that is true, we should always be ready, just in case Linux starts getting more popular. There have been several viruses unleashed against Linux such as rootkit, where these are designed to attack via sudo. The best practice is to watch your logs and possibly use a file logger like bastille, or tripwire. One area of security are core files. Core files are created when a program or daemon crashes do to some unexpected operation or bug. This core file is used for debugging and can contain information about your system and even your passwords. A Cracker might try to crash any number of programs such as Apache or Sendmail, just to get a hold of a core file. There are many scripts available that can check file directories for core dumps and zero length files. A good source for learning about Linux security is the book "Hack Proofing Linux" by James Stanger and Patrick Lane. This discusses everything from the common tools you can use to how to protect against packet sniffers, Those pesky little programs that watch your every key stroke over the web. Jay Scherrer From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 20:39:41 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:39:41 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Virus Protection? In-Reply-To: <1124987809.3125.35.camel@gimly.scherco.local> References: <1124979840.3090.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1124987809.3125.35.camel@gimly.scherco.local> Message-ID: <556f970a05082613395890a781@mail.gmail.com> On 8/25/05, Jay Scherrer wrote: > Linux has been designed with security in mind. But don't let that catch > you off guard. One of my Windows users tells me that the reason Windows > has more viruses is because Windows is more popular over Linux. If that > is true, we should always be ready, just in case Linux starts getting > more popular. You should always be ready. Period. But I should point out that UNIX has been around longer than Windows, and people have had plenty of opportunity to hack it. Good hackers and bad hackers. Linux is built like UNIX in many ways, and is just plain old not as vulnerable. The *real* reason Windows is attacked more often is that it is easy. Do more people dig tunnels under Fort Knox, or steal candy bars from the local store? The majority of WIndows attackes are written to exploit design issues not present in Linux, but more importantly are spread by "script kiddies" who are the 'Nets equivalent of Halloween pranksters. They're not smart, they're bored and easily amused. Point them at a box where they have to think about it, and they're quickly swept off. > There have been several viruses unleashed against Linux > such as rootkit, where these are designed to attack via sudo. The best > practice is to watch your logs and possibly use a file logger like > bastille, or tripwire. One area of security are core files. Core files > are created when a program or daemon crashes do to some unexpected > operation or bug. This core file is used for debugging and can contain > information about your system and even your passwords. A Cracker might > try to crash any number of programs such as Apache or Sendmail, just to > get a hold of a core file. There are many scripts available that can > check file directories for core dumps and zero length files. Once a hacker is on your machine, they can run all sorts of nasty stuff. And if you run as root and execute programs you can be tricked into installing every little chigger they rolled into it. This is not a flaw of either system in and of itself so much as a by product of "crunchy on th eoutside, soft and gooey on the inside" security policies. The big distinction is that on a Linux machine, darn little can be done to root processes with a breached user account, and an even bigger distinction is can the virus/worm propagate itself without user intervention. In the past a hacker has been able to have an easier time escalating their privileges within a "ring" of access, due to what's called "discretionary access control". Under SELinux, for example, it's "mandatory access control" and the rings are cut into slices, so gaining access to Apache, does not mean you can get access to anything at Apache's access level. If the service does not ever need to read a file, you can never read taht file if you are running as that service, same for writing, etc. > A good source for learning about Linux security is the book "Hack > Proofing Linux" by James Stanger and Patrick Lane. This discusses > everything from the common tools you can use to how to protect against > packet sniffers, Those pesky little programs that watch your every key > stroke over the web. Also check out "Hacking Linux Exposed", stop running Windows, and get a firewall. --jeremy From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Fri Sep 2 02:44:20 2005 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:44:20 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Switching from Microsoft to Linux References: Message-ID: Hello all, I got this message yesterday from a network manager at a company with offices on both coasts. If anyone is interested in talking with this person, please e-mail me and I'll forward your name on the network manager. Begin forwarded message: > Switching from Microsoft to Linux > > The owner of our small manufacturing business, {name elided}, is > very-very interested in switching from Microsoft to an open source > Linux. > > He/she would like to speak with anyone who has successfully > switched from MS to Linux, especially if they are also a > manufacturer. He/she is interested in the negative side as well as > the positive side. I have found many success stories online, but he/ > she wants to "talk" to an actual person. > > We have a few servers (File, E-mail, SQL, Application, etc.) and > 100 PCs. We are primarily Windows XP with Office 2003. We do have a > 3D solid modeling system which would have to stay Windows or move > to Unix until the Linux version is released in Q4 2006. 85% of our > servers and clients are basic "Microsoft Office" PCs. The machine > tools which are Windows-based will remain so since the proprietary > software they run cannot be converted to Linux. > > Our owner, {name elided}, is looking for reassurance that we should > continue with research on how to implement the switch, and in the > process answer the question "should we implement the switch?". > Specifically he/she wants to hear about the drawbacks, advantages > and challenges of moving away from Microsoft. > > Could you recommend anyone who might be willing to spend a few > minutes on the phone via a conference call sharing their experience? > > Thank you for your consideration! > > Regards, - Robert http://www.cwelug.org/downloads Help others get OpenSource software. Distribute FLOSS for Windows, Linux, *BSD, and MacOS X with BitTorrent From rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org Fri Sep 2 02:47:19 2005 From: rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org (Robert Citek) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:47:19 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Software Freedom Day Message-ID: Saw this on another list and thought people here might be interested: http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/ "Software Freedom Day is a global, grassroots effort to educate the public about the virtues and availability of Free and Open Source Software. Over 200 teams are registered so far, and they have plans to celebrate Free Software at schools, universities, parks, and many other public places." Regards, - Robert http://www.cwelug.org/downloads Help others get OpenSource software. Distribute FLOSS for Windows, Linux, *BSD, and MacOS X with BitTorrent From tek at pervasivenetwerks.com Fri Sep 2 11:26:48 2005 From: tek at pervasivenetwerks.com (Timothy Tuck) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 04:26:48 -0700 Subject: [OS:N:] Switching from Microsoft to Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200509020426.48486.tek@pervasivenetwerks.com> On Thursday 01 September 2005 07:44 pm, Robert Citek wrote: > Hello all, > > I got this message yesterday from a network manager at a company with > offices on both coasts. If anyone is interested in talking with this > person, please e-mail me and I'll forward your name on the network > manager. I have done windows to linux migrations for a few companies and am also a co-author of the book, Windows to Linux Migration Toolkit by Syngress Press Contact me offlist and we will see how i might be able to help you. Email address: tek at pervasivenetwerks.com Timothy Tuck > > Begin forwarded message: > > Switching from Microsoft to Linux > > > > The owner of our small manufacturing business, {name elided}, is > > very-very interested in switching from Microsoft to an open source > > Linux. > > > > He/she would like to speak with anyone who has successfully > > switched from MS to Linux, especially if they are also a > > manufacturer. He/she is interested in the negative side as well as > > the positive side. I have found many success stories online, but he/ > > she wants to "talk" to an actual person. > > > > We have a few servers (File, E-mail, SQL, Application, etc.) and > > 100 PCs. We are primarily Windows XP with Office 2003. We do have a > > 3D solid modeling system which would have to stay Windows or move > > to Unix until the Linux version is released in Q4 2006. 85% of our > > servers and clients are basic "Microsoft Office" PCs. The machine > > tools which are Windows-based will remain so since the proprietary > > software they run cannot be converted to Linux. > > > > Our owner, {name elided}, is looking for reassurance that we should > > continue with research on how to implement the switch, and in the > > process answer the question "should we implement the switch?". > > Specifically he/she wants to hear about the drawbacks, advantages > > and challenges of moving away from Microsoft. > > > > Could you recommend anyone who might be willing to spend a few > > minutes on the phone via a conference call sharing their experience? > > > > Thank you for your consideration! > > Regards, > - Robert > http://www.cwelug.org/downloads > Help others get OpenSource software. Distribute FLOSS > for Windows, Linux, *BSD, and MacOS X with BitTorrent > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > From tony at mail.applog.com Fri Sep 2 18:21:52 2005 From: tony at mail.applog.com (Tony Nichols) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:21:52 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Ohio LinuxFest Message-ID: <1125685312.6024.147.camel@tony64.alsicorp.com> Noticed this today.... Deploying Open Source Software in Schools Kim Brand, Managing Partner, Server Partners, LLC As school budgets tighten, open source software can make a big difference. Kim Brand has deployed file servers, mail servers and thin client solutions in public and private Indiana schools successfully for the past seven years. Volunteers will learn where open source software makes the most sense and how they can help effectively. IT organizations hoping to serve the school market will learn about how to present the open source value proposition, key factors for project success and solutions to the challenges they might encounter. Kim J. Brand is a Managing Partner of Server Partners, LLC; inventor of the FileEngine GNU/Linux based file server appliance. You can find details for the free event at: http://www.ohiolinux.org/ -- Tony Nichols Appalachian Log Structures Inc. From kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu Thu Sep 8 16:20:33 2005 From: kjcole at gri.gallaudet.edu (Kevin Cole) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:20:33 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Washington, DC area (09/10): Software Freedom Day event Message-ID: <20050908162033.GF5958@gri.gallaudet.edu> Know any folks in the Washington, DC area who are interested in Linux but afraid to try it (or who don't know where to get their hands on a distribution)? Send them to the "Free Books, Free Software" event at the Mount Rainier Public Library. Original "press release" below: WHAT: Free Books and Free Software! WHEN: Saturday, September 10, 2005. 10:00 AM - 5:00 PM WHERE: Mount Rainier Public Library 3409 Rhode Island Avenue (just east of the traffic circle) Mount Rainier, Maryland 20712-2002 WHO: Friends of Mount Rainier Library (FOL), Capital PC User Group (CPCUG), Young Hackers and Scholars Libre Users Group (YHSLUG) FREE BOOKS!! Friends of Mount Rainier Library (FOL, http://mtrainierfol.org/) will be giving away books, including hundreds graciously donated by the former Riverdale Bookstore. We have mysteries, classics, popular novels, nonfiction, and much more. FOL seeks further donations, especially children's books and books in Spanish. Everyone, especially those who may not find everything they want, are strongly encouraged to get a FREE county library card that day and get the rest of their favorite books through the Mount Rainier Public Library for FREE! FREE SOFTWARE!! As a celebration of Software Freedom Day (http://softwarefreedomday.org/), FOL (led by Board Member Jeff Elkner), in collaboration with the Capital PC User Group (CPCUG, http://www.cpcug.org/) and the Young Hackers and Scholars Libre Users Group (YHSLUG, http://yhslug.tux.org/) will be giving away free CDs with Edubuntu Linux for Personal Computers (including those with AMD64 processors) and Macintosh Computers! There will also be free educational software for Edubuntu and Windows systems that should be of interest to students and teachers! What is Edubuntu? Edubuntu is an "Ubuntu" version of the Linux operating system software that is designed especially for classroom use. "Ubuntu" is an ancient African word, meaning "humanity to others." Ubuntu also means "I am what I am because of who we all are." The Ubuntu Linux software is free to the public and, thus, brings the spirit of Ubuntu to all software users. Edubuntu is part of the Ubuntu free software project. Information about Ubuntu is available on the web at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ What are the Goals for Edubuntu? As a simpler form of Ubuntu, Edubuntu is specifically designed to help enable teachers with limited time, money, and technical skills to set up computer labs and online learning environments that are amazingly easy to use. Information about Edubuntu is available on the web at http://www.edubuntu.org/ Who is using Edubuntu? Colin Applegate and Jeff Elkner at Yorktown High School in Arlington County, Virginia, are developing and using the first USA prototype of Edubuntu. The Shuttleworth Foundation's tuXlabs are using an early version of Edubuntu called Skubuntu, which is operating in 50 schools of South Africa, with planned expansion to 200 schools by March 2006. The first major public release of Edubuntu is slated for October 2005 to coincide with the release of Ubuntu version 5.10. Watch the Edubuntu Wiki (http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/) for news updates. -- Kevin Cole | Key ID: 0xE6F332C7 Gallaudet University | WWW: http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/ Hall Memorial Bldg S-419 | V/TTY: (202) 651-5135 Washington, D.C. 20002-3695 | FAX: (202) 651-5746 "Using vi is not a sin. It's a penance." -- St. IGNUcious, Church of Emacs From yurekli_sitki at yahoo.com Thu Sep 15 19:51:57 2005 From: yurekli_sitki at yahoo.com (Sitki Yurekli) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OS:N:] Virus Protection? In-Reply-To: <556f970a05082613395890a781@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050915195157.6467.qmail@web30409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry for this late coming points ahead, but; As Jeremy points out, Linux designed in a different way of thinking and with a strange kind of understanding about "why does an operating-system exist and for whom?". It was strange as those who really try to wrestling with all these technical specs of different hardwares and standarts that shape these, beside, think about the user (even for the novice) and trying to keep this stream on shape, are all volunteers (ok, some of them earning pretty good but not for the "secrets" that they're keeping in their mind or any other place (that nobody can access it except in case "permission granted"), just for their "knowledge" that they build up on about something easily accessible for everybody, "ability to solve problems" and probably for their own dedication to this stream. And I think and believe that such kind of proffesionals or "amateurs" also work for Microsoft, It's just a matter of choice, isn't it? So, if you take the case like that, I think, it's really easy to understand why those try to "hack" or "damage" windows. It's not it's popularity, it's a matter of being open to everybody or "hidened" from everyone, I think. I'm thinking like that, If some-thing/body is open to everybody, immediately loses the point of attractivity (There should be some though reasoning beyond this but I'm not this one who can analyse it :)) Respect to this point, If everybody can know and learn about something which is easilly and fully accesible to all, it is not as much attactive as the one which's been hidened from everyone.. As a daily matter of life-experience, which one is right and attractive for you? (and possibly the right one and the attractive one can come to in a contraversial state) - He/she declares ownself without any secrets and misorientations or - The one who tries to hide everything in order to exist???? and, guess for which one of these you can be a "virus", which means malicious for its being??? So, cheers, Sitki --- Jeremy Hogan wrote: > On 8/25/05, Jay Scherrer wrote: > > Linux has been designed with security in mind. But > don't let that catch > > you off guard. One of my Windows users tells me > that the reason Windows > > has more viruses is because Windows is more > popular over Linux. If that > > is true, we should always be ready, just in case > Linux starts getting > > more popular. > > You should always be ready. Period. But I should > point out that UNIX > has been around longer than Windows, and people have > had plenty of > opportunity to hack it. Good hackers and bad > hackers. Linux is built > like UNIX in many ways, and is just plain old not as > vulnerable. > > The *real* reason Windows is attacked more often is > that it is easy. > Do more people dig tunnels under Fort Knox, or steal > candy bars from > the local store? > > The majority of WIndows attackes are written to > exploit design issues > not present in Linux, but more importantly are > spread by "script > kiddies" who are the 'Nets equivalent of Halloween > pranksters. They're > not smart, they're bored and easily amused. Point > them at a box where > they have to think about it, and they're quickly > swept off. > > > There have been several viruses unleashed against > Linux > > such as rootkit, where these are designed to > attack via sudo. The best > > practice is to watch your logs and possibly use a > file logger like > > bastille, or tripwire. One area of security are > core files. Core files > > are created when a program or daemon crashes do to > some unexpected > > operation or bug. This core file is used for > debugging and can contain > > information about your system and even your > passwords. A Cracker might > > try to crash any number of programs such as Apache > or Sendmail, just to > > get a hold of a core file. There are many scripts > available that can > > check file directories for core dumps and zero > length files. > > Once a hacker is on your machine, they can run all > sorts of nasty > stuff. And if you run as root and execute programs > you can be tricked > into installing every little chigger they rolled > into it. This is not > a flaw of either system in and of itself so much as > a by product of > "crunchy on th eoutside, soft and gooey on the > inside" security > policies. > > The big distinction is that on a Linux machine, darn > little can be > done to root processes with a breached user account, > and an even > bigger distinction is can the virus/worm propagate > itself without user > intervention. In the past a hacker has been able to > have an easier > time escalating their privileges within a "ring" of > access, due to > what's called "discretionary access control". Under > SELinux, for > example, it's "mandatory access control" and the > rings are cut into > slices, so gaining access to Apache, does not mean > you can get access > to anything at Apache's access level. If the service > does not ever > need to read a file, you can never read taht file if > you are running > as that service, same for writing, etc. > > > A good source for learning about Linux security is > the book "Hack > > Proofing Linux" by James Stanger and Patrick Lane. > This discusses > > everything from the common tools you can use to > how to protect against > > packet sniffers, Those pesky little programs that > watch your every key > > stroke over the web. > > Also check out "Hacking Linux Exposed", stop running > Windows, and get > a firewall. > > --jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jkinz at kinz.org Fri Sep 16 13:43:54 2005 From: jkinz at kinz.org (Jeff Kinz) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:43:54 -0400 Subject: [OS:N:] Virus Protection? In-Reply-To: <20050915195157.6467.qmail@web30409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>; from yurekli_sitki@yahoo.com on Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 12:51:57PM -0700 References: <556f970a05082613395890a781@mail.gmail.com> <20050915195157.6467.qmail@web30409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050916094354.A2132@redline.comcast.net> Sitki try for 72 chars wide - (using Yahoo mail dilutes your message :) Thank god for par! On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 12:51:57PM -0700, Sitki Yurekli wrote: > > As Jeremy points out, Linux designed in a different way of thinking >.........SNIPPED > So, if you take the case like that, I think, it's really easy to > understand why those try to "hack" or "damage" windows. It's not it's > popularity, it's a matter of being open to everybody or "hidened" from > everyone, I think. > > I'm thinking like that, If some-thing/body is open to everybody, > immediately loses the point of attractivity (There should be some > though reasoning beyond this but I'm not this one who can analyse > it :)) Respect to this point, If everybody can know and learn about > something which is easilly and fully accesible to all, it is not as > much attactive as the one which's been hidened from everyone.. In summary, I think what Sitki is saying here is that people desire to hack Windows rather than Linux because Windows is "Hidden" and "Secret". In other words people want to do it because its "not permitted" or Naughty and therefore attractive. And he claims this explains why Windows has so many more people/tools attacking it compared to Linux? IFF my understanding of what Sitki has written is correct then then what Rick Moen has written here: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus is something should be read, especially this passage: Questioner: Isn't Microsoft Corporation's market dominance, making Linux an insignificant target, the only reason it doesn't have a virus problem? Rick response: Not at all. This question is virus pundits' pons asinorum: If they can't think past this fallacy, don't even try to reason with them, as they're hopelessly mired in rationalisation. The speaker's supposition is that virus writers will (like himself/herself) ignore anything the least bit unfamiliar, and attack only the most-common user software and operating systems, thus explaining why Unix viruses are essentially unknown in the field. This is doubly fallacious: 1. It ignores Unix's dominance in a number of non-desktop specialties, including Web servers and scientific workstations. A virus/trojan/worm author who successfully targeted specifically Apache httpd Linux/x86 Web servers would both have an extremely target-rich environment and instantly earn lasting fame, and yet it doesn't happen. 2. Even aside from that, it completely fails to account for observed fact: Assume that only 1% of Internet-reachable hosts run x86 Linux (a conservative figure). Assume that only one virus writer out of 1000 targets Unixes. Then, given the near-instant communication across the Net that at this writing is blitzing my Linux Web server with dozens of futile probes for the Microsoft "Nimda" vulnerability per second, the product of that one virus writer's work should be a nagging problem on Linux machines everywhere ? and he/she will be working very hard to achieve that, given the bragging rights he/she would gain. Yet, it's not there. Where is it? The answer is that, for various reasons discussed in prior essays, such code is very easy to write, but ? given minimally competent system maintenance (including the automated kind, cited below) ? completely impractical to propagate. And likely to remain so. Questioner: But how can you say there's no virus problem, when there have been several dozen Linux viruses? Rick response: First of all, that's not what I said. (People keep failing to heed what these essays actually say.) I said that Linux systems' architecture and culture, by design, resist such petty nuisances, and create sufficient default protections that anyone careless enough to be exposed to Linux "malware" (viruses and such) has bigger and more fundamental worries: By and large, you can be hit at all only by being really dumb. By and large, you can suffer system (root) compromise from malware only by being mind-bogglingly dumb. End of passage I realize this does not directly address what I think is Sitki's point. Sitki's point has some merit (I Think), but it applies equally well to both Win and Linux - People are motivated to break security on ALL platforms because of the challenge. This actually equally to Win and Lin, but Win is simply much easier to break into. This is similar to why so many more people climb Mt Marcy than climb Mt Everest. (Marcy Elevation: 5,344 ft , Everest Elevation: 29,035 feet) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Marcy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt_Everest > > As a daily matter of life-experience, which one is right and > attractive for you? (and possibly the right one and the attractive one > can come to in a contraversial state) > > - He/she declares ownself without any secrets and misorientations > > or > > - The one who tries to hide everything in order to exist???? > > and, guess for which one of these you can be a "virus", which means > malicious for its being??? > > So, cheers, > > Sitki > > > --- Jeremy Hogan wrote: > > > On 8/25/05, Jay Scherrer wrote: > > Linux has > been designed with security in mind. But > don't let that catch > > > you off guard. One of my Windows users tells me > that the reason > Windows > > has more viruses is because Windows is more > popular over > Linux. If that > > is true, we should always be ready, just in case > > Linux starts getting > > more popular. > > You should always be > ready. Period. But I should > point out that UNIX > has been around > longer than Windows, and people have > had plenty of > opportunity > to hack it. Good hackers and bad > hackers. Linux is built > like > UNIX in many ways, and is just plain old not as > vulnerable. > > > The *real* reason Windows is attacked more often is > that it is > easy. > Do more people dig tunnels under Fort Knox, or steal > candy > bars from > the local store? > > The majority of WIndows attackes > are written to > exploit design issues > not present in Linux, but > more importantly are > spread by "script > kiddies" who are the > 'Nets equivalent of Halloween > pranksters. They're > not smart, > they're bored and easily amused. Point > them at a box where > they > have to think about it, and they're quickly > swept off. > > > There > have been several viruses unleashed against > Linux > > such as > rootkit, where these are designed to > attack via sudo. The best > > > practice is to watch your logs and possibly use a > file logger like > > > bastille, or tripwire. One area of security are > core files. > Core files > > are created when a program or daemon crashes do to > > some unexpected > > operation or bug. This core file is used for > > debugging and can contain > > information about your system and > even your > passwords. A Cracker might > > try to crash any number > of programs such as Apache > or Sendmail, just to > > get a hold of > a core file. There are many scripts > available that can > > check > file directories for core dumps and zero > length files. > > Once a > hacker is on your machine, they can run all > sorts of nasty > stuff. > And if you run as root and execute programs > you can be tricked > > into installing every little chigger they rolled > into it. This > is not > a flaw of either system in and of itself so much as > a > by product of > "crunchy on th eoutside, soft and gooey on the > > inside" security > policies. > > The big distinction is that on a > Linux machine, darn > little can be > done to root processes with a > breached user account, > and an even > bigger distinction is can the > virus/worm propagate > itself without user > intervention. In the > past a hacker has been able to > have an easier > time escalating > their privileges within a "ring" of > access, due to > what's called > "discretionary access control". Under > SELinux, for > example, it's > "mandatory access control" and the > rings are cut into > slices, > so gaining access to Apache, does not mean > you can get access > > to anything at Apache's access level. If the service > does not > ever > need to read a file, you can never read taht file if > you > are running > as that service, same for writing, etc. > > > A good > source for learning about Linux security is > the book "Hack > > > Proofing Linux" by James Stanger and Patrick Lane. > This discusses > > > everything from the common tools you can use to > how to protect > against > > packet sniffers, Those pesky little programs that > > watch your every key > > stroke over the web. > > Also check out > "Hacking Linux Exposed", stop running > Windows, and get > a firewall. > > > --jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > > Subscription and Archive: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ Subscription and > Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > -- speech recognition software was used in the composition of this e-mail Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. ??Ya no mas!