From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sun Jan 6 12:27:05 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:27:05 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? Message-ID: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> Greetings, just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in Universities or schools of any type and level. Happy 2008, Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From phil.haynes at wachovia.com Sun Jan 6 17:05:55 2008 From: phil.haynes at wachovia.com (phil.haynes at wachovia.com) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:05:55 -0600 Subject: [OS:N:] I'm away from my desk... Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 01/03/2008 and will not return until 01/10/2008. I will be out of the office with limited access to voice and E-mail from Thursday, January 3 - Wednesday, January 9. I will return to the office on Thursday, January 10 and will address your communication as soon as possible. Thank you, Phil From markjensen at charter.net Mon Jan 7 00:43:56 2008 From: markjensen at charter.net (Mark Jensen) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 18:43:56 -0600 Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> References: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> Message-ID: <478175CC.3090607@charter.net> I don't think that there are many active here any more. I still monitor it, but there has not been much activity here at all. The occasional post, the occasional out-of-office auto-responder. While I would love to support promotion of Open Source in educational institutions, I have no experience in working with these sorts of bureaucracies. I would just be an enthusiastic volunteer. Mark From jbj at jbj.org Mon Jan 7 00:48:29 2008 From: jbj at jbj.org (Jeff Johnson) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:48:29 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> References: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> Message-ID: <3659DDEB-BDB0-4DCC-84C1-DBC4F1DF6470@jbj.org> On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:27 AM, M. Fioretti wrote: > Greetings, > > just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested > to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in > Universities or schools of any type and level. > FWIW, I'm still here (I created the O-S-N list many years ago). I haven't seen traffic for years though. 73 de Jeff From accessys at smart.net Mon Jan 7 01:54:23 2008 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:54:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <3659DDEB-BDB0-4DCC-84C1-DBC4F1DF6470@jbj.org> References: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> <3659DDEB-BDB0-4DCC-84C1-DBC4F1DF6470@jbj.org> Message-ID: I am also here, the stuff just runs so well nowdays that there apparently is no where near the need for assistance. would still keep the list idling in case though, it was a godsend to me in my early days of open source. Bob On Sun, 6 Jan 2008, Jeff Johnson wrote: > > On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:27 AM, M. Fioretti wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested > > to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in > > Universities or schools of any type and level. > > > > FWIW, I'm still here (I created the O-S-N list many years ago). > > I haven't seen traffic for years though. > > 73 de Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named From damiano at verzulli.it Mon Jan 7 07:57:26 2008 From: damiano at verzulli.it (Damiano Verzulli) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 08:57:26 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <3659DDEB-BDB0-4DCC-84C1-DBC4F1DF6470@jbj.org> References: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> <3659DDEB-BDB0-4DCC-84C1-DBC4F1DF6470@jbj.org> Message-ID: <4781DB66.6010803@verzulli.it> Jeff Johnson ha scritto: > > [...] > FWIW, I'm still here (I created the O-S-N list many years ago). > > I haven't seen traffic for years though. I'm still here, after my subscription back in 2001. Actually, POST from Marco is the first of 2008. In 2007 we had two posts. In 2006 we had 16 posts (4 threads). This is a pity as in 2002 and 2003 this list hosted lots of very interesting discussions. Bye, Damiano -- Damiano Verzulli e-mail: damiano at verzulli.it --- possible?ok:while(!possible){open_mindedness++} --- "...Science, after all, is ultimately an Open Source enterprise..." 'Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution' - Introduction [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/intro.html] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3367 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us Mon Jan 7 13:15:08 2008 From: mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> References: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> Message-ID: <47698.10.20.1.90.1199711708.squirrel@www.mail.haywood.k12.nc.us> Looks like there are a few people still hanging around. Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it for granted anymore. Michael Michael Williams Director of Technology Haywood County Schools (828) 627-8314 http://www.haywood.k12.nc.us > Greetings, > > just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested > to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in > Universities or schools of any type and level. > > Happy 2008, > Marco > -- > Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how > software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > From jbj at jbj.org Mon Jan 7 16:53:46 2008 From: jbj at jbj.org (Jeff Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:53:46 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <47698.10.20.1.90.1199711708.squirrel@www.mail.haywood.k12.nc.us> References: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> <47698.10.20.1.90.1199711708.squirrel@www.mail.haywood.k12.nc.us> Message-ID: <87301C65-86C0-444E-A2A5-7ACE0B03A675@jbj.org> Michael! Glad to hear from you! 73 de Jeff On Jan 7, 2008, at 8:15 AM, mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us wrote: > Looks like there are a few people still hanging around. > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > for > granted anymore. > > Michael > > Michael Williams > Director of Technology > Haywood County Schools > (828) 627-8314 > http://www.haywood.k12.nc.us > > >> Greetings, >> >> just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested >> to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in >> Universities or schools of any type and level. >> >> Happy 2008, >> Marco >> -- >> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend >> on how >> software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/ >> node/84 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Subscription and Archive: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >> - >> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/ > open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > From swider at earthlink.net Mon Jan 7 17:00:53 2008 From: swider at earthlink.net (Paul Swider) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:00:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: OLPC Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? Message-ID: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I've been on the list for several years and am glad it's still hear because maybe whoever is left can help me with a new problem. I'm now in journalism and working on a story about the OLPC and its effects. I'm curious, from the standpoint of both hardware and software, what people see has or think will happen to the industry as a result of this device. Will we see more flash-driven machines (I think we are)? Will we see more sw development for this machine/OS/GUI? Will the more commercial enterprises now recognize, as Intel and Microsoft appear to be doing, that there is a market even in developing countries for the right sized/priced computing product? Are there other downstream effects coming? If you want to respond to me off-list, you can send to this email or to pswider at sptimes.com, although I can see that this thread might be appropriate for the list. Thanks, Paul Swider -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Johnson >Sent: Jan 7, 2008 11:53 AM >To: Open source advocacy in education and government >Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? > >Michael! Glad to hear from you! > >73 de Jeff > >On Jan 7, 2008, at 8:15 AM, mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us wrote: > >> Looks like there are a few people still hanging around. >> >> Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it >> for >> granted anymore. >> >> Michael >> >> Michael Williams >> Director of Technology >> Haywood County Schools >> (828) 627-8314 >> http://www.haywood.k12.nc.us >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested >>> to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in >>> Universities or schools of any type and level. >>> >>> Happy 2008, >>> Marco >>> -- >>> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend >>> on how >>> software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/ >>> node/84 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Subscription and Archive: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >>> - >>> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/ >> open-source-now-list/ >> - >> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >- >For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > Paul Swider 727.776.9979 www.swider.net From pete at seul.org Mon Jan 7 17:36:13 2008 From: pete at seul.org (Peter D. St. Onge) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:36:13 -0500 Subject: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? Message-ID: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > for granted anymore. It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating installation of systems, management of networks and assets? Best, -- pete From orlando at engr.uconn.edu Mon Jan 7 17:39:16 2008 From: orlando at engr.uconn.edu (Orlando Echevarria) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:39:16 -0500 Subject: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> References: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> Message-ID: <478263C4.50803@engr.uconn.edu> Its mainstream where I am in the sense that it is our webserver, db server, faculty workstations for computing, etc. But again, this is my observation, and so far, no hitches or hiccups. We like it. O Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > -- Orlando Echevarria Programmer Analyst/Webmaster 261 Glenbrook Road, Unit 2237 School of Engineering University of Connecticut Storrs/Mansfield, CT 06269-2237 Email: orlando at engr.uconn.edu Phone: (860) 486-3698 Truth, justice, and patriotism unite in proclaiming that both sides fought and suffered for liberty as bequeathed by the Fathers--the one for liberty in the union of the States, the other for liberty in the independence of the States. -- John B. Gordon From alfred.hovdestad at usask.ca Mon Jan 7 17:51:32 2008 From: alfred.hovdestad at usask.ca (Alfred Hovdestad) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:51:32 -0600 Subject: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> References: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> Message-ID: <478266A4.4070407@usask.ca> Our biggest success has been using Red Hat for our Oracle database servers. The performance and price (h/w and s/w) are great selling points. We will be switching our web server (Apache) to Red Hat this year. We are also running our DNS servers (cisco) and our spam filter (Sophos Pure Message) on Red Hat. Our student/faculty/staff web server is running Red Hat and MySQL. Other servers include: network monitoring (nagios) Red Hat 3D graphical workstations Red Hat webmail (imp) Red Hat -- Alfred Hovdestad (RHCE) University of saskatchewan Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > From mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us Mon Jan 7 19:23:23 2008 From: mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us (Michael Williams) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:23:23 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <87301C65-86C0-444E-A2A5-7ACE0B03A675@jbj.org> References: <20080106122705.GK2913@mclink.it> <47698.10.20.1.90.1199711708.squirrel@www.mail.haywood.k12.nc.us> <87301C65-86C0-444E-A2A5-7ACE0B03A675@jbj.org> Message-ID: <47827C2B.9050008@haywood.k12.nc.us> Jeff Johnson wrote: > Michael! Glad to hear from you! > > 73 de Jeff > > On Jan 7, 2008, at 8:15 AM, mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us wrote: > >> Looks like there are a few people still hanging around. >> >> Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it for >> granted anymore. >> >> Michael >> >> Michael Williams >> Director of Technology >> Haywood County Schools >> (828) 627-8314 >> http://www.haywood.k12.nc.us >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested >>> to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in >>> Universities or schools of any type and level. >>> >>> Happy 2008, >>> Marco >>> -- >>> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on >>> how >>> software is used *around* you: >>> http://digifreedom.net/node/84 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Subscription and Archive: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >>> - >>> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Subscription and Archive: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >> - >> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > You too, Jeff. Long time no see. Michael From mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us Mon Jan 7 19:47:15 2008 From: mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us (Michael Williams) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:47:15 -0500 Subject: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> References: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> Message-ID: <478281C3.2070701@haywood.k12.nc.us> We run both RHEL and OpenSuse. (All the critical work is on the RHEL.) I still have one lab of 30 linux thin clients (k12lsp) that has run for 5 years now and all I've done is replace two power supplies in clients and one hard drive in the server. There are three other thin client labs in the works and we are planning on some thick client experiments later this year. It would be hard to find a teacher or staff member in our district that doesn't know about open source software resources, StarOffice, GIMP are loaded on every computer that comes into the district. We are evaluating the eeePC laptop and another one whose name escapes me right now. We use plone, moodle, wordpress for web and teacher sites. Network monitoring, etc..... All the "low hanging fruit" ! It is a nightmare trying to introduce change into the current public educational institutions, even from inside, so I've decided to take an early retirement next year and try a different approach, don't know exactly what yet but it's time for a change. ;-) Michael Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > From markjensen at charter.net Mon Jan 7 22:56:28 2008 From: markjensen at charter.net (Mark Jensen) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:56:28 -0600 Subject: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> References: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> Message-ID: <4782AE1C.2010501@charter.net> In schools here in Tennessee, Microsoft systems are the norm. Certainly on the clients, and I believe in the server arena, too. :-/ Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > From mfioretti at nexaima.net Tue Jan 8 05:53:42 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:53:42 +0100 Subject: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? In-Reply-To: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> References: <4782630D.9020905@seul.org> Message-ID: <20080108055342.GE2990@mclink.it> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 12:36:13 PM -0500, Peter D. St. Onge (pete at seul.org) wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question just > how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. I was going to write the same thing. It isn't mainstream in the sense of "adopted or supported widely enough to guarantee its survival", not at all the way I see it. Generally speaking, I am *very* concerned these days about the lack of effectiveness in communication from the FOSS community towards everybody else. Later I will post here some articles and proposals I wrote in the past on this very theme, as I believe they are very relevant to the charter of this list. Gotta go now, for the moment I'll just add "Hello everybody, I'm happy there are other people here and I hope we can work together!". Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From Zheng.Chen at bench.com Tue Jan 8 06:35:19 2008 From: Zheng.Chen at bench.com (Zheng.Chen at bench.com) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:35:19 +0800 Subject: [OS:N:] RE: open-source-now-list Digest, Vol 27, Issue 3 Message-ID: <7B40809ECFC7C546B10FA691F15C6D69011A66EF@ch-ex01.bench.com> I'm still alive.haha Best Regards, Chen Zheng Benchmark Electronics (Suzhou) Office Tel: 86-512-62835580#3388 Fax: 86-512-62839962 E-mail: zheng.chen at bench.com -----Original Message----- From: open-source-now-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:open-source-now-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of open-source-now-list-request at redhat.com Sent: 2008?1?8? 13:56 To: open-source-now-list at redhat.com Subject: open-source-now-list Digest, Vol 27, Issue 3 Send open-source-now-list mailing list submissions to open-source-now-list at redhat.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to open-source-now-list-request at redhat.com You can reach the person managing the list at open-source-now-list-owner at redhat.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of open-source-now-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. OLPC Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? (Paul Swider) 2. Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? (Peter D. St. Onge) 3. Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? (Orlando Echevarria) 4. Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? (Alfred Hovdestad) 5. Re: Is the Open Source Now list alive? (Michael Williams) 6. Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? (Michael Williams) 7. Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? (Mark Jensen) 8. Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? (M. Fioretti) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:00:53 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Swider Subject: OLPC Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: Open source advocacy in education and government Message-ID: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root at elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I've been on the list for several years and am glad it's still hear because maybe whoever is left can help me with a new problem. I'm now in journalism and working on a story about the OLPC and its effects. I'm curious, from the standpoint of both hardware and software, what people see has or think will happen to the industry as a result of this device. Will we see more flash-driven machines (I think we are)? Will we see more sw development for this machine/OS/GUI? Will the more commercial enterprises now recognize, as Intel and Microsoft appear to be doing, that there is a market even in developing countries for the right sized/priced computing product? Are there other downstream effects coming? If you want to respond to me off-list, you can send to this email or to pswider at sptimes.com, although I can see that this thread might be appropriate for the list. Thanks, Paul Swider -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Johnson >Sent: Jan 7, 2008 11:53 AM >To: Open source advocacy in education and government >Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? > >Michael! Glad to hear from you! > >73 de Jeff > >On Jan 7, 2008, at 8:15 AM, mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us wrote: > >> Looks like there are a few people still hanging around. >> >> Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it >> for >> granted anymore. >> >> Michael >> >> Michael Williams >> Director of Technology >> Haywood County Schools >> (828) 627-8314 >> http://www.haywood.k12.nc.us >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested >>> to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in >>> Universities or schools of any type and level. >>> >>> Happy 2008, >>> Marco >>> -- >>> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend >>> on how >>> software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/ >>> node/84 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Subscription and Archive: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >>> - >>> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/ >> open-source-now-list/ >> - >> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >- >For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > Paul Swider 727.776.9979 www.swider.net ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:36:13 -0500 From: "Peter D. St. Onge" Subject: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: open-source-now-list at redhat.com Message-ID: <4782630D.9020905 at seul.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > for granted anymore. It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating installation of systems, management of networks and assets? Best, -- pete ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:39:16 -0500 From: Orlando Echevarria Subject: Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: Open source advocacy in education and government Message-ID: <478263C4.50803 at engr.uconn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Its mainstream where I am in the sense that it is our webserver, db server, faculty workstations for computing, etc. But again, this is my observation, and so far, no hitches or hiccups. We like it. O Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > -- Orlando Echevarria Programmer Analyst/Webmaster 261 Glenbrook Road, Unit 2237 School of Engineering University of Connecticut Storrs/Mansfield, CT 06269-2237 Email: orlando at engr.uconn.edu Phone: (860) 486-3698 Truth, justice, and patriotism unite in proclaiming that both sides fought and suffered for liberty as bequeathed by the Fathers--the one for liberty in the union of the States, the other for liberty in the independence of the States. -- John B. Gordon ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:51:32 -0600 From: Alfred Hovdestad Subject: Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: Open source advocacy in education and government Message-ID: <478266A4.4070407 at usask.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Our biggest success has been using Red Hat for our Oracle database servers. The performance and price (h/w and s/w) are great selling points. We will be switching our web server (Apache) to Red Hat this year. We are also running our DNS servers (cisco) and our spam filter (Sophos Pure Message) on Red Hat. Our student/faculty/staff web server is running Red Hat and MySQL. Other servers include: network monitoring (nagios) Red Hat 3D graphical workstations Red Hat webmail (imp) Red Hat -- Alfred Hovdestad (RHCE) University of saskatchewan Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:23:23 -0500 From: Michael Williams Subject: Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: Open source advocacy in education and government Message-ID: <47827C2B.9050008 at haywood.k12.nc.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Jeff Johnson wrote: > Michael! Glad to hear from you! > > 73 de Jeff > > On Jan 7, 2008, at 8:15 AM, mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us wrote: > >> Looks like there are a few people still hanging around. >> >> Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it for >> granted anymore. >> >> Michael >> >> Michael Williams >> Director of Technology >> Haywood County Schools >> (828) 627-8314 >> http://www.haywood.k12.nc.us >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> just checking if there are any subscribers and if they are interested >>> to share experiences about teaching and using open source software in >>> Universities or schools of any type and level. >>> >>> Happy 2008, >>> Marco >>> -- >>> Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on >>> how >>> software is used *around* you: >>> http://digifreedom.net/node/84 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Subscription and Archive: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >>> - >>> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Subscription and Archive: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ >> - >> For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > You too, Jeff. Long time no see. Michael ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:47:15 -0500 From: Michael Williams Subject: Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: Open source advocacy in education and government Message-ID: <478281C3.2070701 at haywood.k12.nc.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed We run both RHEL and OpenSuse. (All the critical work is on the RHEL.) I still have one lab of 30 linux thin clients (k12lsp) that has run for 5 years now and all I've done is replace two power supplies in clients and one hard drive in the server. There are three other thin client labs in the works and we are planning on some thick client experiments later this year. It would be hard to find a teacher or staff member in our district that doesn't know about open source software resources, StarOffice, GIMP are loaded on every computer that comes into the district. We are evaluating the eeePC laptop and another one whose name escapes me right now. We use plone, moodle, wordpress for web and teacher sites. Network monitoring, etc..... All the "low hanging fruit" ! It is a nightmare trying to introduce change into the current public educational institutions, even from inside, so I've decided to take an early retirement next year and try a different approach, don't know exactly what yet but it's time for a change. ;-) Michael Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:56:28 -0600 From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: Open source advocacy in education and government Message-ID: <4782AE1C.2010501 at charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed In schools here in Tennessee, Microsoft systems are the norm. Certainly on the clients, and I believe in the server arena, too. :-/ Peter D. St. Onge wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question > just how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. How about a quick > show of hands for folks in educational institutions - how prevalent is > Linux (and which distro) in your neck of the woods? > > Moreover, are the local tech folks exploiting OSS ways in facilitating > installation of systems, management of networks and assets? > > Best, > > -- pete > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:53:42 +0100 From: "M. Fioretti" Subject: Re: Just how mainstream is it? Re: [OS:N:] Is the Open Source Now list alive? To: open-source-now-list at redhat.com Message-ID: <20080108055342.GE2990 at mclink.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 12:36:13 PM -0500, Peter D. St. Onge (pete at seul.org) wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:15:08 -0500 (EST), Michael Williams > (mwilliams at haywood.k12.nc.us) wrote: > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question just > how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. I was going to write the same thing. It isn't mainstream in the sense of "adopted or supported widely enough to guarantee its survival", not at all the way I see it. Generally speaking, I am *very* concerned these days about the lack of effectiveness in communication from the FOSS community towards everybody else. Later I will post here some articles and proposals I wrote in the past on this very theme, as I believe they are very relevant to the charter of this list. Gotta go now, for the moment I'll just add "Hello everybody, I'm happy there are other people here and I hope we can work together!". Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ open-source-now-list mailing list open-source-now-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list End of open-source-now-list Digest, Vol 27, Issue 3 *************************************************** From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sat Jan 12 20:44:32 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:44:32 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Databases of Digitally Free Schools and Teachers who fight the Digital Dangers Message-ID: <20080112204432.GP2926@mclink.it> Greetings, please have a look at the two pages mentioned above: http://digifreedom.net/node/55 http://digifreedom.net/node/100 and let me know your opinion. I welcome submissions for both those directories at any time, of course. Ciao, Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sat Jan 12 20:41:45 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:41:45 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Turn people who don't care into Free Software supporters Message-ID: <20080112204145.GO2926@mclink.it> On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 06:53:42 AM +0100, M. Fioretti (mfioretti at nexaima.net) wrote: > > > Since linux has become more mainstream, I guess people just take it > > > for granted anymore. > > It's "mainstream" in the sense that it is 'out there' but I question just > > how popular it is given the ongoing marketing. > > I was going to write the same thing. It isn't mainstream in the > sense of "adopted or supported widely enough to guarantee its > survival", not at all the way I see it. as a matter of fact, just a few days ago I received a request for help from a Free Software user concerned about his failure to convert anybody to Free Software, no matter how valid his arguments were. My suggestions are at http://digifreedom.net/node/103 Feedback is welcome. Should you like it, the link to digg the story is http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Turn_people_who_don_t_care_into_Free_Software_supporters/ Ciao, Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sat Jan 12 20:46:18 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:46:18 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Open letters to mothers about software Message-ID: <20080112204618.GQ2926@mclink.it> It's me again. Has any of you tried to promote FOSS in schools and to involve parents with the same arguments I put in this open letter: http://digifreedom.net/node/74 Ciao, Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sat Jan 12 21:33:08 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:33:08 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 12:00:53 PM -0500, Paul Swider (swider at earthlink.net) wrote: > I've been on the list for several years and am glad it's still hear > because maybe whoever is left can help me with a new problem. I'm > now in journalism and working on a story about the OLPC and its > effects. I'm curious, from the standpoint of both hardware and > software, what people see has or think will happen to the industry > as a result of this device. Personally, I believe that: the whole idea that using computers in basic education is overrated, and it is badly implemented most of times anyway, just because it's trendy. In this sense, I don't honestly feel the need for the OLPC or anything similar to be distributed and used in the same way (1) I am also concerned about the environmental impact of sending all these electronics to countries which can't manage them, and I'm not the only one (2) the OLPC, the ASUS EEE and similar devices are a very good thing from the technical point of view, in the sense that the related technological fall-out will hopefully make small, very energy efficient computers much cheaper and easier to buy (1) http://digifreedom.net/node/48 (2) see http://www.olpcnews.com/prototypes/olpc/one_environmental_laptop.html which I linked from http://digifreedom.net/node/81 > Will we see more sw development for this machine/OS/GUI? hopefully, they will make really efficient but user friendly Linux desktops easier to put together and use even in NORMAL, refurbished computers. The current alternatives, eg damnsmalllinux, are pretty useless as desktop or internet terminals for non-techies. And cool school related projects like LTSP12 have little value when _all_ the computers the school can afford are old machines, none of which powerful enough to serve the others. But if the distro on the OLPC could be easily put on the same computers, it would be great. In a nutshell: I believe we (including the many first world schools with sixth world budgets, to stay in topic on this list) may all benefit a lot from the OLPC and friends, even if in a pretty different way than preached by Negroponte. Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From cmacd at zeusprune.ca Sun Jan 13 02:04:08 2008 From: cmacd at zeusprune.ca (Charles MacDonald) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:04:08 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> Message-ID: <47897198.8030603@zeusprune.ca> M. Fioretti wrote: > Personally, I believe that: > > the whole idea that using computers in basic education is overrated, > and it is badly implemented most of times anyway, just because it's > trendy. In this sense, I don't honestly feel the need for the OLPC or > anything similar to be distributed and used in the same way (1) MY impression is that the MIT folks would like to see a generation of Kids in the third world have a jump to colaborative learning. The big technology in the OLPC unit is the mesh networking which allows an entire cloassroom to work on something together. Yes, techning basic literacy, math and such can be done quite nicely with quill and ink, but the effort been to be to put the classroom into the 2020 era, and then the kids will be ready to compete when the get out of school. As far as the e-waste issue, it is probaly less of a concern with the OLPC than with the more typical solution of providing "retired" business hardware. the OLPC units draw less power, and are probaly more friendly to dispose when the do break down. -- Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario cmacd at TelecomOttawa.net Just Beyond the Fringe http://www.TelecomOttawa.net/~cmacd/ No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail. From robert.citek at gmail.com Sun Jan 13 06:42:47 2008 From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:42:47 -0600 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> Message-ID: <4145b6790801122242j4a42de81r33ba5c920aa1625a@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 12, 2008 3:33 PM, M. Fioretti wrote: > hopefully, they will make really efficient but user friendly Linux > desktops easier to put together and use even in NORMAL, refurbished > computers. The current alternatives, eg damnsmalllinux, are pretty > useless as desktop or internet terminals for non-techies. What's your minimum spec for a refurbished computer? I ask because at ByteWorks[1] we refurbish donated computers, use them to teach computing to "at-risk" youth, and award them to the youth who have successfully completed the program. Our minimum spec for a desktop system is 400 MHz x86 with 128 MB RAM and a 6 GB HDD. For over the past year we have had no problem getting donations that meet or exceed those requirements. As for assembling the hardware, most is pretty standard COTS stuff, from the BIOS, to the mother board, to the peripheral cards. As for the software we use Debian Etch running KDE, which is very functional, although not the snappiest given the hardware. Using tested hardware we can routinely build complete systems in about 20 minutes. We use similar hardware and software for our classroom setup. The difference being that the machines can triple-boot: http://wiki.bworks.org/doku.php/classroom_computer_overview [1] http://byteworks.bworks.org/ Regards, - Robert From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sun Jan 13 10:08:30 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:08:30 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <47897198.8030603@zeusprune.ca> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> <47897198.8030603@zeusprune.ca> Message-ID: <20080113100830.GV2926@mclink.it> On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 21:04:08 PM -0500, Charles MacDonald (cmacd at zeusprune.ca) wrote: > MY impression is that the MIT folks would like to see a generation > of Kids in the third world have a jump to colaborative learning. > The big technology in the OLPC unit is the mesh networking which > allows an entire cloassroom to work on something together. I may be cynic, but if OLPC is just or mainly an experiment, they could have done it on a much smaller scale, maybe in the school behind the corner. And if mesh networking's unique use is within the classroom, maybe getting to each classroom a switch and a few meters of Ethernet cable would have done the job anyway, with much less fuss. > Yes, techning basic literacy, math and such can be done quite nicely > with quill and ink, but the effort been to be to put the classroom into > the 2020 era, and then the kids will be ready to compete when the get > out of school. assuming that collaborative learning is mandatory to be ready to compete, yes. I just have difficulty to get interested into it when I regularly read of high-school kids, and adults too, who still have problems with the three R's, in spite of having access to much more technology and resources than most OLPC recipients. > As far as the e-waste issue, it is probaly less of a concern with > the OLPC than with the more typical solution of providing "retired" > business hardware. I didn't think or mean that the OLPC pollutes more than standard refurbished hardware. I meant that using the OLPC pollutes more than not using any computer at all, so unless it's proven that its advantages are really significant, it may not be a good idea. Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sun Jan 13 10:18:22 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:18:22 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <4145b6790801122242j4a42de81r33ba5c920aa1625a@mail.gmail.com> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> <4145b6790801122242j4a42de81r33ba5c920aa1625a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080113101822.GW2926@mclink.it> On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 00:42:47 AM -0600, Robert Citek (robert.citek at gmail.com) wrote: > What's your minimum spec for a refurbished computer? we've been discussing that a lot at the RULE project (www.rule-project.org), even if it's idling these days. we define the minimum specs as "to not be a collection of buggy code not maintained anymore and to be useful to non-geeks who need it for basic office or study usage, cannot use it as a client because they don't have more powerful computers available, need plenty of valid documentation and support from an active online user community". Practically, this means that it must be able to manage opendocument files, HTML 4 websites with Javascript, IMAP email with digital signatures and a couple more things which escape me know (LateX or lynx aren't going to be useful to non-geeks). And must do all this with a Linux distro whose community tolerates newbies, is active, has has many docs as possible and is actively maintained. So, whatever hardware allows you to do all of the above is fine for us. Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From robert.citek at gmail.com Sun Jan 13 16:09:42 2008 From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:09:42 -0600 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <20080113101822.GW2926@mclink.it> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> <4145b6790801122242j4a42de81r33ba5c920aa1625a@mail.gmail.com> <20080113101822.GW2926@mclink.it> Message-ID: <4145b6790801130809q6b02125av78800fafd51665b8@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 13, 2008 4:18 AM, M. Fioretti wrote: > On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 00:42:47 AM -0600, Robert Citek (robert.citek at gmail.com) wrote: > > > What's your minimum spec for a refurbished computer? > > Practically, this means that it must be able to manage opendocument > files, HTML 4 websites with Javascript, IMAP email with digital > signatures and a couple more things which escape me know (LateX or > lynx aren't going to be useful to non-geeks). And must do all this > with a Linux distro whose community tolerates newbies, is active, has > has many docs as possible and is actively maintained. You can do all that with Firefox and a gmail account. If the hardware you can use supports KDE, I'd go with Kubuntu. If not, then probably go with Xubuntu and then add Firefox. The Ubuntu forums are very newbie friendly. Regards, - Robert From mfioretti at nexaima.net Sun Jan 13 19:29:01 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:29:01 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <4145b6790801130809q6b02125av78800fafd51665b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> <4145b6790801122242j4a42de81r33ba5c920aa1625a@mail.gmail.com> <20080113101822.GW2926@mclink.it> <4145b6790801130809q6b02125av78800fafd51665b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080113192901.GF17585@mclink.it> On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 10:09:42 AM -0600, Robert Citek (robert.citek at gmail.com) wrote: > On Jan 13, 2008 4:18 AM, M. Fioretti wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 00:42:47 AM -0600, Robert Citek (robert.citek at gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > What's your minimum spec for a refurbished computer? > > > > Practically, this means that it must be able to manage opendocument > > files, HTML 4 websites with Javascript, IMAP email with digital > > signatures and a couple more things which escape me know (LateX or > > lynx aren't going to be useful to non-geeks). And must do all this > > with a Linux distro whose community tolerates newbies, is active, has > > has many docs as possible and is actively maintained. > > You can do all that with Firefox and a gmail account. only if you can afford a flat-rate, broadband connection. Not granted at all in the use case discussed now. Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84 From damiano at verzulli.it Sun Jan 13 16:16:35 2008 From: damiano at verzulli.it (Damiano Verzulli) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:16:35 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> Message-ID: <478A3963.3060903@verzulli.it> M. Fioretti ha scritto: > [...] > the whole idea that using computers in basic education is overrated, > and it is badly implemented most of times anyway, just because it's > trendy. I really _DON'T_ think that MIT went for the OLPC project only because it's "trendy"! > In this sense, I don't honestly feel the need for the OLPC or > anything similar to be distributed and used in the same way... as have been already written (even by MIT itself), surely water, food, and lots of other "top-priority" things are needed much more than OLPC in the developing countries. But MIT does not deal with "water distribution", "agriculture and food creation" and so on. They deal with "science", with "teaching", with "ICT skills" and, ultimately, with "culture creation". So they thought they could be very smart in building a "culture enabler" tool and that's why OLPC, as a project, started. Does it increase the "pollution" risk in central africa or in south america? Sure. But I think that it is not only the right price to pay to have the related benefit, but also the minimum price to be paid. Do you have alternatives? Please.... tell us. OLPC can be used (with _zero_ marginal costs) not only as a "computer-science-teaching-box" but, mainly, as a tool to distribute texts (books, papers, articles), that without OLPC would _NEVER_ reach the OLPC target countries/people. Do you really think that it's easier to bring a physical book to each child in the developing countries? Will it be "simpler"/"cheaper"? I don't think so... The possibility to create ICT-skills, by the means of OLPC, comes as an added outcome of the tool, as the tool is _perfect_ (not only to read text that otherwise will never be available) but also to learn computer programming. But, again, it's _not_ the main benefit (in my opinion), at least in short time. Last, but not least, I wish the OLPC project as much distribution as possibile, even where it's _not_ needed.... as I'm sure that in a very short of time, if children will not have OLPC, they will "magically" receive another tool... with different software... with different hardware... with different "environmental impact"... promoted by companies much different than "MIT" and, ultimately, with a much higher "freedom" risk. Have you read about OLPC/Intel issue? If Intel tryed to push other platforms instead of OLPC, try to imagine what could happen with other players.... Long life to OLPC!!! Maybe "computer in education" is trendy in the so-called "developed countries" (like Italy, for example). And, in my opinion, this is one of the reason why OLPC target is _very_ different. I'm really sure that OLPC is _NOT_ a "computer in education" project. I see it as a "an education tool" project. A much more "broader" field... My 2 eurocent. Bye, Damiano -- Damiano Verzulli e-mail: damiano at verzulli.it --- possible?ok:while(!possible){open_mindedness++} --- "...Science, after all, is ultimately an Open Source enterprise..." 'Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution' - Introduction [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/intro.html] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3367 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From mfioretti at nexaima.net Mon Jan 14 09:14:24 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:14:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: [OS:N:] Re: OLPC In-Reply-To: <478A3963.3060903@verzulli.it> References: <10338663.1199725253359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20080112213308.GT2926@mclink.it> <478A3963.3060903@verzulli.it> Message-ID: <42163.194.237.142.7.1200302064.squirrel@nexaima.net> On Sun, January 13, 2008 5:16 pm, Damiano Verzulli wrote: > M. Fioretti ha scritto: >> [...] >> the whole idea that using computers in basic education is overrated, >> and it is badly implemented most of times anyway, just because it's >> trendy. > > I really _DON'T_ think that MIT went for the OLPC project only because > it's "trendy"! I said "the whole idea", not OLPC. > MIT does not deal with "water distribution", > "agriculture and food creation" and so on. but governments do. It's their responsibility, not MIT's, to check if any computer in basic school is a priority for them and a priority they can afford. Again, I have no real problem with OLPC, is the basic, general idea that leaves me perplexed. > So they thought they could be very smart in building a "culture enabler" > tool and that's why OLPC, as a project, started. Noting against the wish to create new things. Going straight for such a colossal and expensive project instead of a pilot ran with normal PCs in 1, 100, 1000 selected schools... seems unnecessary. > Does it increase the "pollution" risk in central africa or in south > america? For me, the fact that it increases pollution is bad not so much per se, but because I have problems to see the "related benefit" in the first place. > Do you have alternatives? Not really, because, _again_ I doubt if it's just a solution looking for a problem. If the general, underlying problem/need exists, then it's worth to look for alternatives. This goal, for example: > OLPC can be used (with _zero_ marginal costs)...as a tool to distribute > texts (books, papers, articles) is a great one which I approve, but any e-book device, even custom made, would have been much simpler to do, use and likely quite cheaper also. > Last, but not least, I wish the OLPC project as much distribution as > possibile, even where it's _not_ needed.... as I'm sure that in a very > short of time, if children will not have OLPC, they will "magically" > receive another tool... with different software... with different > hardware... with different "environmental impact"... promoted by > companies much different than "MIT" and, ultimately, with a much higher > "freedom" risk. This sounds like "since I MUST hurt myself in some way before the day ends, if I get drunk as soon as I can, I won't be able to buy drugs, which would be much worst for my health and wallet". If the original problem/need as envisioned by MIT (=grade school kids must have computers) exists and must be dealt with on that scale from the start, then there is no doubt that OLPC is the best solution, but only "if". That's where I am confused. > I'm really sure that OLPC is _NOT_ a "computer in education" project. I > see it as a "an education tool" project. A much more "broader" field... I agree, and I also agree that, in this context, usage by kids who have never seen any computer or game console before may be much more meaningful than in the first world - but in this case I still have the original question: was it really needed to make such a fanfare, instead of a pilot, however complex? Marco -- Help *everybody* love Free Standards and Software: http://digifreedom.net From jeffrey_lepage at yahoo.com Fri Feb 1 17:05:23 2008 From: jeffrey_lepage at yahoo.com (Jeffrey LePage) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:05:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [OS:N:] Matthew Szulik and the "Open Source Education Corporation" Message-ID: <393215.29848.qm@web36709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings, In 2002 Matthew Szulik proposed the creation of an "Open Source Education Corporation" to open up schools to FOSS and solve the growing technical education problem (http://www.linux-mag.com/id/972). I was wondering what became of this idea. Nearly 6 years after the original proposal, Googling "Open Source Education Corporation" brought up a mere 4 links. Things have changed a lot since 2002. OLPC is a reality, the state of Indiana is busily completing a rollout of 300,000 Linux based laptops to its high schools, and Vista is widely regarded as a flop. On the other hand, a lot of people in education are completely unaware of the existence of Linux and other FOSS projects. Perhaps it's time to re-introduce this idea? Mr. Szulik: are you listening? Sincerely, Jeff LePage www.jefflepage.com P.S. Who am I? I'm a long-time fan of Linux and Open Source. I also have two children in a public charter school (www.freehorizonmontessori.org). I recently installed 22 linux laptops at this school. I'd like to do much more, but I don't have the necessary resources. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From tony at mail.applog.com Tue Feb 5 19:09:02 2008 From: tony at mail.applog.com (Tony Nichols) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:09:02 -0500 Subject: [OS:N:] Matthew Szulik and the "Open Source Education Corporation" In-Reply-To: <393215.29848.qm@web36709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <393215.29848.qm@web36709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1202238542.4537.30.camel@linux-64.applog.com> Steve Haragon over at http://www.k12computers.com/Articles.asp?ID=123 has a handful of links. His group seems to be pretty active in the software and hardware side. t o n y On Fri, 2008-02-01 at 09:05 -0800, Jeffrey LePage wrote: > Greetings, > > In 2002 Matthew Szulik proposed the creation of an > "Open Source Education Corporation" to open up schools > to FOSS and solve the growing technical education > problem (http://www.linux-mag.com/id/972). > > I was wondering what became of this idea. Nearly 6 > years after the original proposal, Googling "Open > Source Education Corporation" brought up a mere 4 > links. > > Things have changed a lot since 2002. OLPC is a > reality, the state of Indiana is busily completing a > rollout of 300,000 Linux based laptops to its high > schools, and Vista is widely regarded as a flop. On > the other hand, a lot of people in education are > completely unaware of the existence of Linux and other > FOSS projects. Perhaps it's time to re-introduce this > idea? > > Mr. Szulik: are you listening? > > Sincerely, > Jeff LePage > www.jefflepage.com > > P.S. Who am I? I'm a long-time fan of Linux and Open > Source. I also have two children in a public > charter school (www.freehorizonmontessori.org). I > recently installed 22 linux laptops at this school. > I'd like to do much more, but I don't have the > necessary resources. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/ > - > For K12OS technical help join K12OSN: > > From mfioretti at nexaima.net Mon Feb 25 06:37:04 2008 From: mfioretti at nexaima.net (M. Fioretti) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 07:37:04 +0100 Subject: [OS:N:] OSS at Free Horizon school, was: Matthew Szulik and the "Open Source Education Corporation" In-Reply-To: <393215.29848.qm@web36709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <393215.29848.qm@web36709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080225063704.GA2731@nexaima.net> On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 09:05:23 AM -0800, Jeffrey LePage wrote: > P.S. Who am I? I'm a long-time fan of Linux and Open Source. I > also have two children in a public charter school > (www.freehorizonmontessori.org). I recently installed 22 linux > laptops at this school. I'd like to do much more, but I don't have > the necessary resources. I have mentioned Jeff's work at http://digifreedom.net/node/107 and at http://digifreedom.net/node/100 I always welcome pointers to other similar webpages to add to that directory and to http://digifreedom.net/node/55 Keep up the good work, Marco -- Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84