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Re: Speak now, or...

Al Longyear writes:
>I was just asking how much you wanted to change the PAM implementation on   
>Linux away from the standard.

And I'm saying that the change isn't away from the standard at all.
It's just defining something that the standard leaves undefined so
that all of us can work together.

>If you are willing to do one thing, then   
>why not others? Is it a good thing to change one item and not another?


>This sort of logic is what causes schisms in developments. It would be a   
>shame to have this cause two different implementations of PAM for Linux.

I assume you are talking about the login sticking around to close the

If you can find a reliable way to do it through init, more power to you.
Remember that not all invocations of login get cleaned up after by init.
If you make something that
 a) really works reliably
 b) works for all systems, including those which need sessions
    closed reliably in all cases (like Kerberos)
 c) works for cases where init doesn't inherit the processes
    started by login
we'll certainly consider replacing our solution with yours.

Solutions which require that login only be called by init in order
for sessions to be processed correctly are a far worse violation of
the Unix ideal than leaving the login process to wait for a child...
Login is used elsewhere as well...

Currently, we aren't causing a schism in development, if only because
no one else has implemented a free pamified login...  And our goals
in working with this list and trying to document what we do and ask
for comment is to avoid schism.  However, I won't be paralyzed by
trying to achieve 100% consensus.  Since early in the PAM project,
Ted Ts'o was designated as project leader, and as far as I know, is
still the project leader (Andrew being the release coordinator), I've
been taking his decisions as the ones to follow to avoid schism.


"Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?"

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