<div dir="ltr"><div>@stian,</div><div>IMO<span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span> the first
thing to do is to encourage users to use a recent browser, especially if
they use tools that affect the security of their users.</span></span></div><div><span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span>And see if the number decrease.</span></span></div><div><span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span><br></span></span></div><div><span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span>@stan</span></span><br></div><div></div><div><span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span>5% of users for 30% more code and 30% more development time.</span> <span>Is not it important to bring value first to the remaining 99% before?</span></span></div><div><span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span>I mean, <span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span>for me it's
more important to release a version of patternfly-next quickly to get
feedback from the community than to manage all browsers just in
case.</span></span><br></span></span></div><div><span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span></span></span><span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-short_text" tabindex="-1" lang="en"><span>Of course this is only my opinion :)</span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers<br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:09 PM, Andres Galante <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:agalante@redhat.com" target="_blank">agalante@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I don't think there are <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">pollyfills for css variables the way we are using them or grids. But we can look into that.</span></div><div class="gmail-HOEnZb"><div class="gmail-h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Stan Silvert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ssilvert@redhat.com" target="_blank">ssilvert@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966moz-cite-prefix">On 5/22/2018 4:23 PM, Andres Galante
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Leslie has been meeting with different team to take
this decisions based on their requirements and roadmaps. She is
on vacation this week so we can probably continue this
discussing next week.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is my reasoning:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IE11 is a burden, not only because we can't use css
variables and grid among other modern CSS features but also
because it increases the time of development to write
fallbacks and testing and it makes the codebase harder to
maintain.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Patternfly next beta will out during the next 6 month-ish
and a stable version probably by the end of the year or
beginning of the next. By the time we have a stable version
and projects start adopting it, it's a safe assumption that
IE11 will be irrelevant.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Does it make sense?</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></span>
I think your reasoning makes perfect sense.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, we can't just ignore 2% to 7% of our user base.
Even if IE11 is down to 1% of the market, we will still need a
solution. If 1 out of 100 users can't use your web site then you
are in trouble.<br>
<br>
If there is an effective pollyfill available then I think that would
be good enough for us. <br><div><div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871h5">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Stan
Silvert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ssilvert@redhat.com" target="_blank">ssilvert@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297moz-cite-prefix">Maybe
we can load a polyfill when we detect IE11?<br>
<br>
Would this work for all the new features you plan to use
Andres?
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966h5"><br>
<br>
On 5/22/2018 3:31 PM, Stian Thorgersen wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">On <a href="http://keycloak.org" target="_blank">keycloak.org</a>
we have ~5% on IE11 this year. Of IE users 95% of
our users are on IE11.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at <a href="https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php" target="_blank">https://www.w3counter.com/g<wbr>lobalstats.php</a>
there's 2.81% for IE11. On <a href="http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide" target="_blank">http://gs.statcounter.com/b<wbr>rowser-market-share/desktop/wo<wbr>rldwide</a>
it says 7.17%, which I assume is mostly IE11.
They don't give details on individual versions
as far as I can see.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From my understanding there's still a lot of
folks on Windows XP in the world and a good
proportion has not updated to Edge. I remember
how long it took to get rid of IE6.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For RH-SSO and Keycloak we have login pages
as well as the account management console that
both should be available to most users.
Available is subjective of course, but if
there's CSS variables used which is not
supported at all on IE11 I would assume it would
look very bad on IE11?</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 22 May 2018 at 21:05,
Andres Galante <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:agalante@redhat.com" target="_blank">agalante@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Stian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How much of that IE traffic is IE11?</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297HOEnZb">
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 22,
2018 at 3:11 PM, Stian Thorgersen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sthorger@redhat.com" target="_blank">sthorger@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">According to <a href="http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide" target="_blank">http://gs.statcounter.com/b<wbr>rowser-market-share/desktop/wo<wbr>rldwide</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IE11 is still more popular
than Edge.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I get the same numbers from <a href="http://keycloak.org" target="_blank">keycloak.org</a>.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716HOEnZb">
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 22
May 2018 at 20:07, Stian
Thorgersen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sthorger@redhat.com" target="_blank">sthorger@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Is the
world really ready to
move on from IE11? For
admin facing apps I
don't see it as a
problem, but what about
end-user facing apps?</div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194HOEnZb">
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
18 May 2018 at
10:53, Guillaume
Vincent <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gvincent@redhat.com" target="_blank">gvincent@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">this
is a good
news, thank
you patternfly
!<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, May 17,
2018 at 1:22
PM, Andres
Galante <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:agalante@redhat.com" target="_blank">agalante@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi
Stan,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes! it
means we'll go
back to use
CSS variables
following the
same <a href="https://css-tricks.com/theming-with-variables-globals-and-locals/" target="_blank">2 tier variable system</a>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We'll
also be able
to use CSS
grids to build
layouts :)</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-HOEnZb">
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, May 17,
2018 at 8:14
AM, Stan
Silvert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ssilvert@redhat.com" target="_blank">ssilvert@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562m_-8522246855259496257moz-cite-prefix">I'm
quite happy to
ditch IE11.<br>
<br>
Does that mean
PatternFly
Next will use
CSS variables
instead of
preprocessor
variables?
Eliminating
the
preprocessor
will make me
double happy!<br>
<br>
For our app we
want to allow
an
administrator
to do simple
theme changes
from the admin
console. This
gets really
easy to
implement if
the app
doesn't need
preprocessing.
If we have to
use a
preprocessor
then it
becomes
extremely
complicated.<br>
<br>
Stan
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562h5"><br>
<br>
On 5/16/2018
4:55 PM,
Leslie Hinson
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562h5">
<div dir="ltr">Hey
Fliers
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the
last
PatternFly
Next update,
the topic of
IE11 browser
support came
up.
Specifically,
the question
on whether or
not we needed
to support it
moving
forward. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a
result, we
wanted to
follow up to
ensure we
understood
PatternFly
users' browser
support
roadmap. From
what we've
been able to
gather, we
learned that
the majority
of PatternFly
users that are
interested in
migrating to
PatternFly-Next
are
comfortable
proceeding
without IE11
support moving
forward. We
will continue
to have PF3
for any users
that still
require that
level of
support,
however we
don't believe
that IE11
support is
worth the cost
for this next
major
version. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks to
everyone that
raised this
concern as
well as those
that provided
input to help
us make this
decision. <br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562m_-8522246855259496257gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Leslie
Hinson</div>
<div dir="ltr">PatternFly
Lead, UXD </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562m_-8522246855259496257mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
PatternFly mailing list
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
PatternFly
mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PatternFly@redhat.com" target="_blank">PatternFly@redhat.com</a><br>
<a href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/patternfly</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
PatternFly
mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PatternFly@redhat.com" target="_blank">PatternFly@redhat.com</a><br>
<a href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/patternfly</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br>
<div class="gmail-m_468612432755572871m_4631666499504099966m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p style="font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Guillaume</span>
<span>Vincent</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Senior
FrontEnd
Engineer</span></p>
<span></span>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px"> <a style="color:rgb(0,136,206);font-size:10px;margin:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:"overpass",sans-serif" href="mailto:gvincent@redhat.com" target="_blank">gvincent@redhat.com</a>
</span> </p>
<table border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="100px"><a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank"> <img width="90" height="auto"></a> </td>
<td style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px">
<div><a href="https://redhat.com/trusted" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(204,0,0);font-weight:bold" target="_blank">TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.</a></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>
<p style="font-weight:bold;margin:0;padding:0;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase;margin-bottom:0"><span>Guillaume</span> <span>Vincent</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Senior FrontEnd Engineer</span></p><span></span>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px">
<a style="color:#0088ce;font-size:10px;margin:0;text-decoration:none;font-family:'overpass',sans-serif" href="mailto:gvincent@redhat.com" target="_blank">gvincent@redhat.com</a> </span>
</p>
<table border="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100px"><a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank"> <img src="https://www.redhat.com/files/brand/email/sig-redhat.png" height="auto" width="90"></a> </td>
<td style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px">
<div><a href="https://redhat.com/trusted" style="text-decoration:none;color:#c00;font-weight:bold" target="_blank">TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.</a></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>