<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 23 May 2018 at 15:23, Greg Sheremeta <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gshereme@redhat.com" target="_blank">gshereme@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 2:38 AM, Stian Thorgersen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sthorger@redhat.com" target="_blank">sthorger@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span>On 22 May 2018 at 22:23, Andres Galante <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:agalante@redhat.com" target="_blank">agalante@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Leslie has been meeting with different team to take this decisions based on their requirements and roadmaps. She is on vacation this week so we can probably continue this discussing next week.</div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I believe we're different as we provide pages exposed directly to end-users, not only to admins/developers. Look at Angular for example they still support IE9-11.</div><div><br></div><div>+1 Let's continue the discussion next week</div><span><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Here is my reasoning:<div><br></div><div>IE11 is a burden, not only because we can't use css variables and grid among other modern CSS features but also because it increases the time of development to write fallbacks and testing and it makes the codebase harder to maintain.</div><div><br></div><div>Patternfly next beta will out during the next 6 month-ish and a stable version probably by the end of the year or beginning of the next. By the time we have a stable version and projects start adopting it, it's a safe assumption that IE11 will be irrelevant.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I'm not sure when IE11 will be irrelevant. Remember how long IE6 stuck around after it was EOL? It was crazy. We even had a visit from IE6 (and IE5) on <a href="http://keycloak.org" target="_blank">keycloak.org</a> this year.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>"Hi kind person! Looks like you are using Bad Technology. Let us help you ... install this nice Firefox over here."</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>lol - we can just make a lil' javascript alert for those using IE11. I'd go for Chrome though ;)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>/problem</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Greg</div></font></span><div><div class="h5"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_-5991923676449010331h5"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><br></div><div>Does it make sense?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514HOEnZb"><div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Stan Silvert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ssilvert@redhat.com" target="_blank">ssilvert@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297moz-cite-prefix">Maybe we can load a polyfill when we
detect IE11?<br>
<br>
Would this work for all the new features you plan to use Andres?<div><div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082h5"><br>
<br>
On 5/22/2018 3:31 PM, Stian Thorgersen wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">On <a href="http://keycloak.org" target="_blank">keycloak.org</a> we have ~5% on IE11
this year. Of IE users 95% of our users are on IE11.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at <a href="https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php" target="_blank">https://www.w3counter.com/g<wbr>lobalstats.php</a>
there's 2.81% for IE11. On <a href="http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide" target="_blank">http://gs.statcounter.com/b<wbr>rowser-market-share/desktop/wo<wbr>rldwide</a>
it says 7.17%, which I assume is mostly IE11. They don't give
details on individual versions as far as I can see.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From my understanding there's still a lot of folks on
Windows XP in the world and a good proportion has not updated
to Edge. I remember how long it took to get rid of IE6.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For RH-SSO and Keycloak we have login pages as well as the
account management console that both should be available to
most users. Available is subjective of course, but if there's
CSS variables used which is not supported at all on IE11 I
would assume it would look very bad on IE11?</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 22 May 2018 at 21:05, Andres Galante
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:agalante@redhat.com" target="_blank">agalante@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Stian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How much of that IE traffic is IE11?</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:11
PM, Stian Thorgersen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sthorger@redhat.com" target="_blank">sthorger@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">According to <a href="http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide" target="_blank">http://gs.statcounter.com/b<wbr>rowser-market-share/desktop/wo<wbr>rldwide</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IE11 is still more popular than Edge.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I get the same numbers from <a href="http://keycloak.org" target="_blank">keycloak.org</a>.</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 22 May 2018 at
20:07, Stian Thorgersen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sthorger@redhat.com" target="_blank">sthorger@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Is the world really ready
to move on from IE11? For admin facing
apps I don't see it as a problem, but
what about end-user facing apps?</div>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 18 May
2018 at 10:53, Guillaume Vincent
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gvincent@redhat.com" target="_blank">gvincent@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">this is a good
news, thank you patternfly !<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, May 17, 2018 at
1:22 PM, Andres
Galante <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:agalante@redhat.com" target="_blank">agalante@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi
Stan,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes! it means
we'll go back to
use CSS
variables
following the
same <a href="https://css-tricks.com/theming-with-variables-globals-and-locals/" target="_blank">2 tier variable system</a>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We'll
also be able
to use CSS
grids to build
layouts :)</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, May 17,
2018 at 8:14
AM, Stan
Silvert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ssilvert@redhat.com" target="_blank">ssilvert@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562m_-8522246855259496257moz-cite-prefix">I'm
quite happy to
ditch IE11.<br>
<br>
Does that mean
PatternFly
Next will use
CSS variables
instead of
preprocessor
variables?
Eliminating
the
preprocessor
will make me
double happy!<br>
<br>
For our app we
want to allow
an
administrator
to do simple
theme changes
from the admin
console. This
gets really
easy to
implement if
the app
doesn't need
preprocessing.
If we have to
use a
preprocessor
then it
becomes
extremely
complicated.<br>
<br>
Stan
<div>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562h5"><br>
<br>
On 5/16/2018
4:55 PM,
Leslie Hinson
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562h5">
<div dir="ltr">Hey
Fliers
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the
last
PatternFly
Next update,
the topic of
IE11 browser
support came
up.
Specifically,
the question
on whether or
not we needed
to support it
moving
forward. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a
result, we
wanted to
follow up to
ensure we
understood
PatternFly
users' browser
support
roadmap. From
what we've
been able to
gather, we
learned that
the majority
of PatternFly
users that are
interested in
migrating to
PatternFly-Next
are
comfortable
proceeding
without IE11
support moving
forward. We
will continue
to have PF3
for any users
that still
require that
level of
support,
however we
don't believe
that IE11
support is
worth the cost
for this next
major
version. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks to
everyone that
raised this
concern as
well as those
that provided
input to help
us make this
decision. <br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562m_-8522246855259496257gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Leslie
Hinson</div>
<div dir="ltr">PatternFly
Lead, UXD </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail-m_3149855817943506562m_-8522246855259496257mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
<br>
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mailing list<br>
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</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
PatternFly mailing
list<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br>
<div class="m_-5991923676449010331m_-7138039189068151514m_-2665676532732090082m_-8500766420999206297m_-34860176911613716m_-8078423703574727194m_-526101669878332915m_-9080920863722428336gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p style="font-weight:bold;margin:0;padding:0;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase;margin-bottom:0"><span>Guillaume</span>
<span>Vincent</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Senior
FrontEnd
Engineer</span></p>
<span></span>
<p style="font-weight:normal;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px">
<a style="color:#0088ce;font-size:10px;margin:0;text-decoration:none;font-family:'overpass',sans-serif" href="mailto:gvincent@redhat.com" target="_blank">gvincent@redhat.com</a>
</span>
</p>
<table border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="100px"><a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank"> <img height="auto" width="90"></a> </td>
<td style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px">
<div><a href="https://redhat.com/trusted" style="text-decoration:none;color:#c00;font-weight:bold" target="_blank">TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.</a></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div></div></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><span class=""><div class="m_-5991923676449010331gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>GREG</span> <span>SHEREMETA</span></p><p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>SENIOR SOFTWARE ENGINEER - TEAM LEAD - RHV UX</span><span style="color:rgb(170,170,170);margin:0px"></span></p><p style="font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a href="https://www.redhat.com/" style="color:rgb(0,136,206);margin:0px" target="_blank">Red Hat NA<span><br><br></span></a></p><p style="font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px"><a href="mailto:gshereme@redhat.com" style="color:rgb(0,136,206);margin:0px" target="_blank">gshereme@redhat.com</a> </span> <span>IRC: <span>gshereme</span></span></p><table border="0" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium"><tbody><tr><td width="100px"><a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank"><img width="90" height="auto"></a></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</span></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>