From notting at redhat.com Thu Feb 19 02:09:24 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:09:24 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 2 test release 1 now available! In-Reply-To: References: <20040212151518.GA9186@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20040219020924.GA31958@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Brent J. Nordquist (b-nordquist at bethel.edu) said: > > - Fedora Core 2 test 1 is currently only available for i386-compatible > > architectures. x86_64 will appear in a later test release. > > Is test 2 the plan? (/me crosses fingers) That's the plan, yes. Bill From dstewart at atl.lmco.com Fri Feb 20 15:38:21 2004 From: dstewart at atl.lmco.com (Doug Stewart) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:38:21 -0500 Subject: Archives unavailable? Message-ID: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Howdy all, I'm new to this list and was looking to get caught up on prior discussions, but the archives seem to be inaccessible. Any idea when they might be coming back? I've got some questions re: feasability of Oracle 9i on an Opteron box and I need answers fairly soon, as I have to make a purchasing recommendation, and I'd rather not sell management on a Sun system, just because Oracle _definitely_ runs on it. - -- - ---------- Doug Stewart Systems Administrator/Web Applications Developer Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Labs Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFANintN50Q8DVvcvkRAjpPAJ0fIcrOvwPX5iRMhkZKXngPMHVppQCdFXbv RaDxhw6tdhioMCXXnwQqzgM= =pnJF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gene at czarc.net Fri Feb 20 15:46:57 2004 From: gene at czarc.net (Gene Czarcinski) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:46:57 -0500 Subject: Archives unavailable? In-Reply-To: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> References: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> Message-ID: <200402201046.57013.gene@czarc.net> On Friday 20 February 2004 10:38, Doug Stewart wrote: > Howdy all, > I'm new to this list and was looking to get caught up on prior > discussions, but the archives seem to be inaccessible. Any idea when > they might be coming back? I am not having any problem accessing https://www.redhat.com/archives/amd64-list/ Gene From dstewart at atl.lmco.com Fri Feb 20 15:47:17 2004 From: dstewart at atl.lmco.com (Doug Stewart) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:47:17 -0500 Subject: Archives unavailable? In-Reply-To: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> References: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> Message-ID: <40362C05.3060409@atl.lmco.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Or, rather, I should say, searchable. They're browsable, but I haven't the time to go looking for answers at the moment. Also, is there a reason that the Reply-To: header isn't set for this list, as it is for most of the other RedHat lists? - -- - ---------- Doug Stewart Systems Administrator/Web Applications Developer Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Labs Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFANiwFN50Q8DVvcvkRAiKjAJ9BOxopFe1048k1TGLwOWZ+UkOAogCeO0mO l0snqDguADac58M3ujuj2vc= =faL1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From knuffie at xs4all.nl Fri Feb 20 15:55:28 2004 From: knuffie at xs4all.nl (Seth Mos) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:55:28 +0100 Subject: Archives unavailable? In-Reply-To: <40362C05.3060409@atl.lmco.com> References: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040220165424.01c85f28@pop.xs4all.nl> At 10:47 20-2-2004 -0500, Doug Stewart wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Or, rather, I should say, searchable. They're browsable, but I haven't >the time to go looking for answers at the moment. Did you try http://marc.theaimsgroup.com ? They have a lot of list archives there. Cheers -- Seth I don't make sense, I don't pretend to either. Questions? From mwill at penguincomputing.com Mon Feb 23 21:41:35 2004 From: mwill at penguincomputing.com (Michael Will) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Archives unavailable? References: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> Message-ID: In article <403629ED.90807 at atl.lmco.com>, Doug Stewart wrote: > I've got some questions re: feasability of Oracle 9i on an Opteron box > and I need answers fairly soon, as I have to make a purchasing > recommendation, and I'd rather not sell management on a Sun system, just > because Oracle _definitely_ runs on it. What were the questions? Oracle and SuSE seem to partner on supporting oracle on the opteron 64bit platform. http://www.suse.de/en/business/certifications/certified_software/oracle/matrix.html Also, OCFS is supported by Redhat AS and SuSE SLES8 according to http://otn.oracle.com/tech/linux/htdocs/ocfs_faq_031103.html If you need some technical answers, don't hesitate to call in :-) Michael Will -- Michael Will, Linux Sales Engineer NEWS: We have moved to a larger iceberg :-) NEWS: 300 California St., San Francisco, CA. Tel: 415-954-2822 Toll Free: 888-PENGUIN Fax: 415-954-2899 www.penguincomputing.com From dstewart at atl.lmco.com Tue Feb 24 21:38:58 2004 From: dstewart at atl.lmco.com (Doug Stewart) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:38:58 -0500 Subject: Archives unavailable? In-Reply-To: References: <403629ED.90807@atl.lmco.com> Message-ID: <403BC472.1010809@atl.lmco.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Michael Will wrote: | In article <403629ED.90807 at atl.lmco.com>, Doug Stewart wrote: | |>I've got some questions re: feasability of Oracle 9i on an Opteron box |>and I need answers fairly soon, as I have to make a purchasing |>recommendation, and I'd rather not sell management on a Sun system, just |>because Oracle _definitely_ runs on it. | | | What were the questions? | | Oracle and SuSE seem to partner on supporting oracle | on the opteron 64bit platform. | | http://www.suse.de/en/business/certifications/certified_software/oracle/matrix.html | | Also, OCFS is supported by Redhat AS and SuSE SLES8 according to | | http://otn.oracle.com/tech/linux/htdocs/ocfs_faq_031103.html | | If you need some technical answers, | don't hesitate to call in :-) | | Michael Will Not looking for ocfs here, unfortunately. I want an x86_64-ready version of Oracle 9i for RHAS/EL, since we've comitted to that, and not SuSE here at our site. The introduction of a SuSE box would be more trouble than it was worth, methinks. There's a developer's edition, but I don't think management will go for deploying that on the db server that will be hosting our payroll data... - -- - ---------- Doug Stewart Systems Administrator/Web Applications Developer Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Labs Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAO8RyN50Q8DVvcvkRAmeHAJ9mXGtJwLBir88jGSpDJmAQBLM2UACeJ8MC kiD4aDGhxuOr78jgYq1von0= =C6sv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From amd64 at purple.dropbear.id.au Fri Feb 27 04:46:17 2004 From: amd64 at purple.dropbear.id.au (Ashley Gittins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:46:17 +1000 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? Message-ID: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> Greetings all, I'm several days away from ordering my amd64 3400+ system, and wanted to know if there are any known gotchyas with my intended purchase. I decided to go with the K8T800 chipset after seeing both the hypertransport rates and general issues seen with the NF3 chipset with drivers etc. I understand most of those issues are well on their way to being resolved but I would feel more comfortable getting something that has worked for a while. I'm looking at getting the MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R motherboard, as it seems to be a decent performer, and is capable of driving most ram configs at DDR400. I expect I will have driver issues with the Lan interface, and possibly the audio, but I plan to use an existing SBLive and e100pro nic, so I'm not going to be too concerned if that's the case. Are there any specific issues with the SATA interface on these mainboards, or anything else I should look out for which might affect my purchasing decision? I'm planning on booting my main system from SATA, with secondary storage on PATA. I'm planning on getting 2 x 512MB Corsair XMS3200LL (low latency) sticks, under the assumption that I'll be able to run tighter memory timings with these units. I've trawled the archives a bit and seen some reports of ide problems with the msi board, but with conflicting accounts from some. Has anyone here had experience with this model board? If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or another chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using Fedora for my day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, graphics) and will be dual-booting with XP purely for games. I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't mind being able to start out with something proven, and sit back on the bit where the bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) -- Regards, Ashley Gittins web: http://www.purple.dropbear.id.au jabber: agittins at purple.dropbear.id.au From jkeating at j2solutions.net Fri Feb 27 05:03:40 2004 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:03:40 -0800 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> Message-ID: <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 26 February 2004 20:46, Ashley Gittins wrote: > If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or another > chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using Fedora for my > day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, graphics) and will > be dual-booting with XP purely for games. > > I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't mind > being able to start out with something proven, and sit back on the bit > where the bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) We (Pogo Linux) sold a customer a MSI K8T when they first came out, with the understanding that we hadn't done any R&D on it and the customer was going to be testing it out. The customer had horrible results, and basically an unusable system in 64bit Linux. However, recent purchasers of this board report that no problems are found. Most likely it's due to an early revision that bios flashing cannot repair. We (Pogo again) have since moved on and selected the Asus K8V Deluxe systemboard for our Athlon64 system. This board offers a 3com GigE nic that works w/ Linux (sk98lin), two sets of SATA ports that work with Linux (sata_promise, sata_via), audio that works with Alsa, and a very fast platform. The price isn't all that much different from the MSI K8T-Neo. Thats my $0.02. - -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAPs+x4v2HLvE71NURAnqPAKCbd50Phwf+suyVJqOOk5msVij9IQCfeNKQ LVRckssIkw4OMI4Gqcsh1pI= =0lYS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From guichaz at yahoo.fr Fri Feb 27 16:05:35 2004 From: guichaz at yahoo.fr (Guillaume Chazarain) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:05:35 +0100 Subject: Backward Compatibility Message-ID: As I understand it the lib64/ thing is for old 32 bit binary apps to run flawlessly side by side with x86_64 apps. Does Fedora Core intent to provide 32 bit libs for each package ? I understand it raises some packaging problems but otherwise it defeats the compatibility advantage. OTOH, if we assume there are really few 32 bit apps that will survive in an 64 bit installation, then why not keeping lib/ for 64 bit libs and installing 32 bit stuff in /usr/i386-pc-linux-gnu/{bin,lib,...} ? I may have missed something since I don't currently own an amd64, just anticipating. Guillaume From mark at harddata.com Fri Feb 27 16:13:00 2004 From: mark at harddata.com (Mark) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:13:00 -0700 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <200402270913.00372.mark@harddata.com> On February 26, 2004 10:03 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 26 February 2004 20:46, Ashley Gittins wrote: > > If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or another > > chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using Fedora for my > > day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, graphics) and will > > be dual-booting with XP purely for games. > > > > I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't mind > > being able to start out with something proven, and sit back on the bit > > where the bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) We have sold one and haven't heard any complaints but personally I would look at getting a Tyan S2875S instead. It takes the S940 Opteron 14x series or Athlon64 FX processors. It comes with AC97 sound that works under linux, GigE, SIL3114 4 Port SATA RAID (Much better than promise and linux support now exists). It uses an AMD chipset which is well supported. The only complaint we have is that you need to remove the audio connectors to fit it in a 1U case. -- Mark Lane, CET mailto:mark at harddata.com Hard Data Ltd. http://www.harddata.com T: 01-780-456-9771 F: 01-780-456-9772 11060 - 166 Avenue Edmonton, AB, Canada, T5X 1Y3 --> Ask me about our Excellent 1U Systems! <-- From scott_coppen at yahoo.com Fri Feb 27 16:24:52 2004 From: scott_coppen at yahoo.com (Scott Coppen) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:24:52 -0500 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> Message-ID: <200402271124.52603.scott_coppen@yahoo.com> Go with a SI311* based SATA controller. I had to buy a SI3112 PCI card as my onboard Promise controller is not supported. Also, I don't know if the new distro installs use a 2.6 kernel, so you may have to do some fiddling to get your system to boot off the SATA drive if your planning to use a new 2.6 (highly recommended). On Thursday 26 February 2004 23:46, Ashley Gittins wrote: > Greetings all, > I'm several days away from ordering my amd64 3400+ system, and > wanted to know if there are any known gotchyas with my intended > purchase. > > I decided to go with the K8T800 chipset after seeing both the > hypertransport rates and general issues seen with the NF3 chipset > with drivers etc. I understand most of those issues are well on > their way to being resolved but I would feel more comfortable > getting something that has worked for a while. > > I'm looking at getting the MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R motherboard, as it > seems to be a decent performer, and is capable of driving most ram > configs at DDR400. I expect I will have driver issues with the Lan > interface, and possibly the audio, but I plan to use an existing > SBLive and e100pro nic, so I'm not going to be too concerned if > that's the case. > > Are there any specific issues with the SATA interface on these > mainboards, or anything else I should look out for which might > affect my purchasing decision? I'm planning on booting my main > system from SATA, with secondary storage on PATA. > > I'm planning on getting 2 x 512MB Corsair XMS3200LL (low latency) > sticks, under the assumption that I'll be able to run tighter > memory timings with these units. > > I've trawled the archives a bit and seen some reports of ide > problems with the msi board, but with conflicting accounts from > some. Has anyone here had experience with this model board? > > If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or > another chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using > Fedora for my day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, > graphics) and will be dual-booting with XP purely for games. > > I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't > mind being able to start out with something proven, and sit back on > the bit where the bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) > > -- > Regards, > Ashley Gittins > web: http://www.purple.dropbear.id.au > jabber: agittins at purple.dropbear.id.au -- Scott W. Coppen scott_coppen at yahoo.com From jkeating at j2solutions.net Fri Feb 27 16:30:29 2004 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:30:29 -0800 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402270913.00372.mark@harddata.com> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> <200402270913.00372.mark@harddata.com> Message-ID: <200402270830.29297.jkeating@j2solutions.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 27 February 2004 08:13, Mark wrote: > We have sold one and haven't heard any complaints but personally I would > look at getting a Tyan S2875S instead. It takes the S940 Opteron 14x > series or Athlon64 FX processors. It comes with AC97 sound that works > under linux, GigE, SIL3114 4 Port SATA RAID (Much better than promise > and linux support now exists). It uses an AMD chipset which is well > supported. The only complaint we have is that you need to remove the > audio connectors to fit it in a 1U case. The original poster was buying an Athlon64 3400+, which will not fit in this board. This Tyan board is for Opteron and AthlonFX only. - -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAP3Cl4v2HLvE71NURAg+3AJ0b+jNp3MehOnluFJRdZJzD/LoitgCgtKJP 60+J8JbrcBKOPhiZldvDHDk= =W1rx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mcr2z at cs.virginia.edu Fri Feb 27 16:33:54 2004 From: mcr2z at cs.virginia.edu (Mark Reis) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:33:54 -0500 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402270913.00372.mark@harddata.com> Message-ID: <200402271633.i1RGXtGI029488@ares.cs.Virginia.EDU> As long as everyone is putting in their 2c, I would give a word of caution about Tyan. This comes from two recent bad experiences with their motherboards. 1) We have >20 machines in a cluster all running dual Athlon MPs and they started out with 4GB of ECC ram. To make along story short, there was absolutely no way to make these machines stable with 4 sticks of memory. We had to sell back, at a lost, the extra 1GB DIMMS. 2) Bad RMA support. Another Tyan dual proc board, in a different system, failed within the warranty period from Tyan. Trying to RMA the board was a Herculean effort and did not go well. We've had respectable luck our MSI Opteron boards K8D Master FTs. -Mark Reis UVa CS Department -----Original Message----- From: amd64-list-admin at redhat.com [mailto:amd64-list-admin at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:13 AM To: amd64-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? On February 26, 2004 10:03 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 26 February 2004 20:46, Ashley Gittins wrote: > > If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or another > > chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using Fedora for my > > day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, graphics) and will > > be dual-booting with XP purely for games. > > > > I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't mind > > being able to start out with something proven, and sit back on the bit > > where the bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) We have sold one and haven't heard any complaints but personally I would look at getting a Tyan S2875S instead. It takes the S940 Opteron 14x series or Athlon64 FX processors. It comes with AC97 sound that works under linux, GigE, SIL3114 4 Port SATA RAID (Much better than promise and linux support now exists). It uses an AMD chipset which is well supported. The only complaint we have is that you need to remove the audio connectors to fit it in a 1U case. -- Mark Lane, CET mailto:mark at harddata.com Hard Data Ltd. http://www.harddata.com T: 01-780-456-9771 F: 01-780-456-9772 11060 - 166 Avenue Edmonton, AB, Canada, T5X 1Y3 --> Ask me about our Excellent 1U Systems! <-- -- amd64-list mailing list amd64-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/amd64-list From mark at harddata.com Fri Feb 27 16:42:41 2004 From: mark at harddata.com (Mark) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:42:41 -0700 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402270830.29297.jkeating@j2solutions.net> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402270913.00372.mark@harddata.com> <200402270830.29297.jkeating@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <200402270942.41323.mark@harddata.com> On February 27, 2004 09:30 am, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 27 February 2004 08:13, Mark wrote: > > We have sold one and haven't heard any complaints but personally I would > > look at getting a Tyan S2875S instead. It takes the S940 Opteron 14x > > series or Athlon64 FX processors. It comes with AC97 sound that works > > under linux, GigE, SIL3114 4 Port SATA RAID (Much better than promise > > and linux support now exists). It uses an AMD chipset which is well > > supported. The only complaint we have is that you need to remove the > > audio connectors to fit it in a 1U case. > > The original poster was buying an Athlon64 3400+, which will not fit in > this board. This Tyan board is for Opteron and AthlonFX only. > It did mention that it takes different processors > >It takes the S940 Opteron 14x > > series or Athlon64 FX processors -- Mark Lane, CET mailto:mark at harddata.com Hard Data Ltd. http://www.harddata.com T: 01-780-456-9771 F: 01-780-456-9772 11060 - 166 Avenue Edmonton, AB, Canada, T5X 1Y3 --> Ask me about our Excellent 1U Systems! <-- From robert.goshko at axis-dev.ca Fri Feb 27 16:52:08 2004 From: robert.goshko at axis-dev.ca (Robert Goshko) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:52:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> Message-ID: <41543.129.42.208.182.1077900728.squirrel@mail.axis-dev.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In a message prior to this message, Ashley Gittins wrote: > I'm looking at getting the MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R motherboard, as it seems to > be a > decent performer, and is capable of driving most ram configs at DDR400. I > expect I will have driver issues with the Lan interface, and possibly the > audio, but I plan to use an existing SBLive and e100pro nic, so I'm not > going to be too concerned if that's the case. I have the MSI K8T board (purchased 1 month ago) and the only issue I have is the on-board audio, the Linux driver is a little flaky (get static some times) but I knew this going in. I have no trouble with the on-board networking, USB2 or 1394. > Are there any specific issues with the SATA interface on these mainboards, > or > anything else I should look out for which might affect my purchasing > decision? I'm planning on booting my main system from SATA, with secondary > storage on PATA. I installed Mandrake 9.2 (x86) with 0 problems, it picked up the S-ATA drive and all of the other on-board components no problem. I also have an IDE DVD-RW drive that works great via SCSI emulation for burning. > I'm planning on getting 2 x 512MB Corsair XMS3200LL (low latency) sticks, > under the assumption that I'll be able to run tighter memory timings with > these units. I have the Corsair 2x512 matched pair CL2 chips and they work great. > I've trawled the archives a bit and seen some reports of ide problems with > the > msi board, but with conflicting accounts from some. Has anyone here had > experience with this model board? I looked at the Asus and MSI, and from all of the reviews I read, the MSI came out slightly more ahead of the ASUS board. I have heard stories from both sides. > If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or another > chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using Fedora for my > day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, graphics) and will be > dual-booting with XP purely for games. I have mine dual boot with 2000 and it was more of a pain to install than Linux. XP may be a little better, but you will still need the S-ATA driver on a floppy to install. Soon I'll have a tri-boot with Mandrake 9.2 (x86-64) that will be finished download in another 27 hours.... ;) > I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't mind being > able to start out with something proven, and sit back on the bit where the > bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) - From the Linux side, I only have issues with my graphics card (ATI Radeon 9600XT) for full 64 bit compatiplity as the drivers are closed sourced, but other than that, the MSI board has been very stable. - From the Windows side, what 64 bit comparability, the tech at the shop where I got mine said they had a beta of Win64 and it was no where near read for prime time, said it was closer to an alpha release. - -- ...Rob - -- "Never under estimate the power of the schwartz." -- Yogurt (Spaceballs) ==================================================================== Robert Goshko Axis Computer Consulting Services, Inc President Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada http://www.axis-dev.ca/ Supporting the Revolution In Your World ==================================================================== Registered Linux User #260513 GNU/Linux i686 2.4.22-26mdkenterprise Mandrake Linux 9.2 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ 09:37:03 up 1 day, 16:11, 3 users, load average: 1.02, 1.01, 1.00 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAP3W0OPQK/00PPkERAj1wAKCQNSfzY2TbHv8mlF/KaYWnZfWqtgCg4p5T WnU/oWF51Zxv+OBAT8YUki4= =c/S0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at harddata.com Fri Feb 27 17:04:53 2004 From: mark at harddata.com (Mark) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:04:53 -0700 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402271633.i1RGXtGI029488@ares.cs.Virginia.EDU> References: <200402271633.i1RGXtGI029488@ares.cs.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <200402271004.53592.mark@harddata.com> On February 27, 2004 09:33 am, Mark Reis wrote: > As long as everyone is putting in their 2c, I would give a word of caution > about Tyan. This comes from two recent bad experiences with their > motherboards. 1) We have >20 machines in a cluster all running dual Athlon > MPs and they started out with 4GB of ECC ram. To make along story short, > there was absolutely no way to make these machines stable with 4 sticks of > memory. We had to sell back, at a lost, the extra 1GB DIMMS. The reseller should have told you about this. You can't access All 4 Gigs of Memory even if it could be made to work. (It can with the right memory but we still recommend against it.) The Memory bus is 32bit and can access 4GB of Memory but the PCI bus is memory mapped not i/o mapped so it takes away about the top 256MB of Memory Addresses. > 2) Bad RMA > support. Another Tyan dual proc board, in a different system, failed within > the warranty period from Tyan. Trying to RMA the board was a Herculean > effort and did not go well. We've had respectable luck our MSI Opteron > boards K8D Master FTs. Again the reseller should of helped you with this. We have not problem dealing with Tyan though I have heard rumors that end users do sometimes. Even if it was out of our system warranty we would still help setup an RMA for a customer. Not that it matters Most of our systems sold less than 3 years ago would still be under warranty so the customers would be coming back to us for replacement. Like most manufacturer's, Tyan prefers to work with the Resellers and distributors for RMAs. regards, -- Mark Lane, CET mailto:mark at harddata.com Hard Data Ltd. http://www.harddata.com T: 01-780-456-9771 F: 01-780-456-9772 11060 - 166 Avenue Edmonton, AB, Canada, T5X 1Y3 --> Ask me about our Excellent 1U Systems! <-- From jgriffin at v1data.com Fri Feb 27 17:21:00 2004 From: jgriffin at v1data.com (John Griffin) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:21:00 -0800 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? References: <200402271633.i1RGXtGI029488@ares.cs.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <001801c3fd56$12630580$0500a8c0@laptop2> What worked for us (for what it's worth): We selected MSI K8D Master-F, dual Opterons (244), 2g ECC, Adaptec's 39320a-r SCSI, and IBM Ultrastar 320 drives. We utilized a triple redundant 600w 4u chassis (SC742) by Supermicro- even though they're an Intel shop- it works great after we made extensions to a power cord. MSI's response time and inaccurate troubleshooting was a disheartening experience (JPWR2 is not "optional" as stated in the manual or to us in email). Honestly though, good_technical_customer_service + motherboard_manufacturer are two things we've not ever been able to compile. Also had to snatch a driver from Adaptec. Our combination works with 32bit apps and we're working on a migration strategy toward 64bit kernel and modules. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Reis" To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:33 AM Subject: RE: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? > As long as everyone is putting in their 2c, I would give a word of caution > about Tyan. This comes from two recent bad experiences with their > motherboards. 1) We have >20 machines in a cluster all running dual Athlon > MPs and they started out with 4GB of ECC ram. To make along story short, > there was absolutely no way to make these machines stable with 4 sticks of > memory. We had to sell back, at a lost, the extra 1GB DIMMS. 2) Bad RMA > support. Another Tyan dual proc board, in a different system, failed within > the warranty period from Tyan. Trying to RMA the board was a Herculean > effort and did not go well. We've had respectable luck our MSI Opteron > boards K8D Master FTs. > > -Mark Reis > UVa CS Department > > -----Original Message----- > From: amd64-list-admin at redhat.com [mailto:amd64-list-admin at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Mark > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:13 AM > To: amd64-list at redhat.com > Subject: Re: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? > > On February 26, 2004 10:03 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Thursday 26 February 2004 20:46, Ashley Gittins wrote: > > > If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or another > > > chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using Fedora for my > > > day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, graphics) and will > > > be dual-booting with XP purely for games. > > > > > > I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't mind > > > being able to start out with something proven, and sit back on the bit > > > where the bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) > > We have sold one and haven't heard any complaints but personally I would > look > at getting a Tyan S2875S instead. It takes the S940 Opteron 14x series or > Athlon64 FX processors. It comes with AC97 sound that works under linux, > GigE, SIL3114 4 Port SATA RAID (Much better than promise and linux support > now exists). It uses an AMD chipset which is well supported. The only > complaint we have is that you need to remove the audio connectors to fit it > in a 1U case. > > > -- > Mark Lane, CET mailto:mark at harddata.com > Hard Data Ltd. http://www.harddata.com > T: 01-780-456-9771 F: 01-780-456-9772 > 11060 - 166 Avenue Edmonton, AB, Canada, T5X 1Y3 > --> Ask me about our Excellent 1U Systems! <-- > > > -- > amd64-list mailing list > amd64-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/amd64-list > > > -- > amd64-list mailing list > amd64-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/amd64-list From redhat64 at foo21.com Fri Feb 27 17:32:24 2004 From: redhat64 at foo21.com (Eric Varsanyi) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:32:24 -0600 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402271633.i1RGXtGI029488@ares.cs.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <20040227173224.GG9576@srv.foo21.com> I'll add my .02 as well: Our company makes a product that embeds tyan and supermicro motherboards. It took our H/W guys months to make the Tyan boards (these were P3 boards, S1568 I think, the supermicro's are the P4's) stable with 4G of RAM, basically Tyan support didn't help at all but our memory vendor was willing to experiment (due to the large volumes) and found that the Tyan boards required slightly different timings programmed into the SPD's and a slightly different configuration of decoupling caps on the sticks. Once we had memory that worked with these boards they were rock solid. We went thru a similar but much less painful dance trying to get 8G working on the P4 Supermicro boards (P4DPE), I think it went faster because Supermicro gave us better support and worked with the memory vendor. I have 1 test Opteron system from last year with 8G on it, but since the memory is distributed and the memory controllers are in the CPU's I had no problems at all using standard registered gig sticks from the outset. -Eric On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 11:33:54AM -0500, Mark Reis wrote: > As long as everyone is putting in their 2c, I would give a word of caution > about Tyan. This comes from two recent bad experiences with their > motherboards. 1) We have >20 machines in a cluster all running dual Athlon > MPs and they started out with 4GB of ECC ram. To make along story short, > there was absolutely no way to make these machines stable with 4 sticks of > memory. We had to sell back, at a lost, the extra 1GB DIMMS. 2) Bad RMA > support. Another Tyan dual proc board, in a different system, failed within > the warranty period from Tyan. Trying to RMA the board was a Herculean > effort and did not go well. We've had respectable luck our MSI Opteron > boards K8D Master FTs. > > -Mark Reis > UVa CS Department > > -----Original Message----- > From: amd64-list-admin at redhat.com [mailto:amd64-list-admin at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Mark > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:13 AM > To: amd64-list at redhat.com > Subject: Re: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? > > On February 26, 2004 10:03 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Thursday 26 February 2004 20:46, Ashley Gittins wrote: > > > If there are good reasons why I should look at another board, or another > > > chipset altogether, I'd love to hear them. I'll be using Fedora for my > > > day-to-day work (general desktop stuff, some devel, graphics) and will > > > be dual-booting with XP purely for games. > > > > > > I don't expect a completely smoth ride on AMD64, but I wouldn't mind > > > being able to start out with something proven, and sit back on the bit > > > where the bleeding edge has just started to congeal :-) > > We have sold one and haven't heard any complaints but personally I would > look > at getting a Tyan S2875S instead. It takes the S940 Opteron 14x series or > Athlon64 FX processors. It comes with AC97 sound that works under linux, > GigE, SIL3114 4 Port SATA RAID (Much better than promise and linux support > now exists). It uses an AMD chipset which is well supported. The only > complaint we have is that you need to remove the audio connectors to fit it > in a 1U case. > > > -- > Mark Lane, CET mailto:mark at harddata.com > Hard Data Ltd. http://www.harddata.com > T: 01-780-456-9771 F: 01-780-456-9772 > 11060 - 166 Avenue Edmonton, AB, Canada, T5X 1Y3 > --> Ask me about our Excellent 1U Systems! <-- > > > -- > amd64-list mailing list > amd64-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/amd64-list > > > -- > amd64-list mailing list > amd64-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/amd64-list ----- End forwarded message ----- From amd64 at purple.dropbear.id.au Fri Feb 27 17:38:15 2004 From: amd64 at purple.dropbear.id.au (Ashley Gittins) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:38:15 +1000 Subject: Now Asus K8V Deluxe, was: [Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R?] In-Reply-To: <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <200402280338.15910.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 03:03 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > We (Pogo Linux) sold a customer a MSI K8T when they first came out, with > the understanding that we hadn't done any R&D on it and the customer was > going to be testing it out. The customer had horrible results, and > basically an unusable system in 64bit Linux. However, recent purchasers > of this board report that no problems are found. Most likely it's due to > an early revision that bios flashing cannot repair. > > We (Pogo again) have since moved on and selected the Asus K8V Deluxe > systemboard for our Athlon64 system. This board offers a 3com GigE nic > that works w/ Linux (sk98lin), two sets of SATA ports that work with Linux > (sata_promise, sata_via), audio that works with Alsa, and a very fast > platform. The price isn't all that much different from the MSI K8T-Neo. Thanks for the pointers Jesse and Robert. Thanks also to those letting me know their opteron/FX configs - some useful info on vendor support if not for my chosen cpu. Yes, here in Australia the k8v is only $14 more. As to speed, all the benchmarks I've seen place them neck and neck, but having gigE and a supported onboard sound chip, plus confirmed sata support all sound pretty good to me. Nice also is the wifi riser, which I can get here as an add-on for AU$30 or so - not that i've seen any evidence of linux support for it yet. Robert, your point about static on the via sound chip was one thing that had me planning to use my SBLive in the new system - my previous experience with via sound chips had me a little worried about the whole via thing. Hopefully it's only an issue with (some of?) their sound codecs. I've since found some comments that indicate the corsair DDR400 low-latency ram works well on the k8v, which was my only remaining reservation on the asus board. As such I think you've convinced me, Jesse :-) Unless of course anyone has some dire warnings about the k8v _socket754_ board.... -- Regards, Ashley Gittins web: http://www.purple.dropbear.id.au jabber: agittins at purple.dropbear.id.au From gene at czarc.net Fri Feb 27 17:44:35 2004 From: gene at czarc.net (Gene Czarcinski) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:44:35 -0500 Subject: Backward Compatibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402271244.35733.gene@czarc.net> On Friday 27 February 2004 11:05, Guillaume Chazarain wrote: > As I understand it the lib64/ thing is for old 32 bit > binary apps to run flawlessly side by side with x86_64 > apps. Does Fedora Core intent to provide 32 bit libs > for each package ? I understand it raises some packaging > problems but otherwise it defeats the compatibility > advantage. > > OTOH, if we assume there are really few 32 bit apps that > will survive in an 64 bit installation, then why not > keeping lib/ for 64 bit libs and installing 32 bit stuff > in /usr/i386-pc-linux-gnu/{bin,lib,...} ? > > I may have missed something since I don't currently own > an amd64, just anticipating. Agreed to standards say that /lib64 and /usr/lib64 are for 64 bit applications. This applies to other architectures such as the sparc64 as well as the x86_64. There is a small number of applications that will be 32 bit only for right now (openoffice.org). There are some packages such as glibc which are both 64 bit and 32 bit. There is a basic development environment which will support compiling 32 bit applications under the 64 bit OS and not a lot of them. The problem is that installing them post system installations is more than a bit tricky since a lot of "library" packages include files in /usr/bin, etc. and those directory trees contain both 32 bit and 64 bit applications. Gene From gene at czarc.net Fri Feb 27 17:48:36 2004 From: gene at czarc.net (Gene Czarcinski) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:48:36 -0500 Subject: Now Asus K8V Deluxe, was: [Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R?] In-Reply-To: <200402280338.15910.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> <200402280338.15910.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> Message-ID: <200402271248.36947.gene@czarc.net> On Friday 27 February 2004 12:38, Ashley Gittins wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 03:03 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > > We (Pogo Linux) sold a customer a MSI K8T when they first came out, with > > the understanding that we hadn't done any R&D on it and the customer was > > going to be testing it out. The customer had horrible results, and > > basically an unusable system in 64bit Linux. However, recent purchasers > > of this board report that no problems are found. Most likely it's due to > > an early revision that bios flashing cannot repair. > > > > We (Pogo again) have since moved on and selected the Asus K8V Deluxe > > systemboard for our Athlon64 system. This board offers a 3com GigE nic > > that works w/ Linux (sk98lin), two sets of SATA ports that work with > > Linux (sata_promise, sata_via), audio that works with Alsa, and a very > > fast platform. The price isn't all that much different from the MSI > > K8T-Neo. > > Thanks for the pointers Jesse and Robert. Thanks also to those letting me > know their opteron/FX configs - some useful info on vendor support if not > for my chosen cpu. > > Yes, here in Australia the k8v is only $14 more. As to speed, all the > benchmarks I've seen place them neck and neck, but having gigE and a > supported onboard sound chip, plus confirmed sata support all sound pretty > good to me. Nice also is the wifi riser, which I can get here as an add-on > for AU$30 or so - not that i've seen any evidence of linux support for it > yet. > > Robert, your point about static on the via sound chip was one thing that > had me planning to use my SBLive in the new system - my previous experience > with via sound chips had me a little worried about the whole via thing. > Hopefully it's only an issue with (some of?) their sound codecs. > > I've since found some comments that indicate the corsair DDR400 low-latency > ram works well on the k8v, which was my only remaining reservation on the > asus board. As such I think you've convinced me, Jesse :-) > > Unless of course anyone has some dire warnings about the k8v _socket754_ > board.... I have an ASUS SK8V which supports the Opteron and Athlon64 FX and am very pleased with it. I believe that the K8V is similar except that it supports the Athlon64. Gene From rob.myers at gtri.gatech.edu Fri Feb 27 18:42:14 2004 From: rob.myers at gtri.gatech.edu (Rob Myers) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:42:14 -0500 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <200402271124.52603.scott_coppen@yahoo.com> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402271124.52603.scott_coppen@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1077907334.966.89.camel@dungeness.stl.gtri.gatech.edu> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 11:24, Scott Coppen wrote: > Go with a SI311* based SATA controller. I had to buy a SI3112 PCI > card as my onboard Promise controller is not supported. Also, I > don't know if the new distro installs use a 2.6 kernel, so you may > have to do some fiddling to get your system to boot off the SATA > drive if your planning to use a new 2.6 (highly recommended). i havent tested kernel 2.6.3, but i had problems[1] with the sil3114 libata patches with kernel 2.6.2 and kernel 2.6.1 when using with more than 4gb of ram. the siimage ide driver works fine for me in larger memory configurations. has anyone tested these drivers in the latest kernels? rob. [1] failures using http://people.redhat.com/dledford/memtest.html From mark at harddata.com Fri Feb 27 18:48:51 2004 From: mark at harddata.com (Mark) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:48:51 -0700 Subject: Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R? In-Reply-To: <1077907334.966.89.camel@dungeness.stl.gtri.gatech.edu> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402271124.52603.scott_coppen@yahoo.com> <1077907334.966.89.camel@dungeness.stl.gtri.gatech.edu> Message-ID: <200402271148.51262.mark@harddata.com> On February 27, 2004 11:42 am, Rob Myers wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 11:24, Scott Coppen wrote: > > Go with a SI311* based SATA controller. I had to buy a SI3112 PCI > > card as my onboard Promise controller is not supported. Also, I > > don't know if the new distro installs use a 2.6 kernel, so you may > > have to do some fiddling to get your system to boot off the SATA > > drive if your planning to use a new 2.6 (highly recommended). > > i havent tested kernel 2.6.3, but i had problems[1] with the sil3114 > libata patches with kernel 2.6.2 and kernel 2.6.1 when using with more > than 4gb of ram. the siimage ide driver works fine for me in larger > memory configurations. has anyone tested these drivers in the latest > kernels? > I haven't tried libata drivers yet. We have the siimage drivers working with a modified 2.4.22-1.2174 kernel though. I know that Jeff Garzik released a patch recently to add support for all 4 ports in Libata driver so he is working on getting the SIL3114 to working properly. You may want to report the problem to him. -- Mark Lane, CET mailto:mark at harddata.com Hard Data Ltd. http://www.harddata.com T: 01-780-456-9771 F: 01-780-456-9772 11060 - 166 Avenue Edmonton, AB, Canada, T5X 1Y3 --> Ask me about our Excellent 1U Systems! <-- From robert.goshko at axis-dev.ca Fri Feb 27 18:54:55 2004 From: robert.goshko at axis-dev.ca (Robert Goshko) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:54:55 -0700 Subject: Now Asus K8V Deluxe, was: [Any issues with MSI K8T-NEO-FIS2R?] In-Reply-To: <200402280338.15910.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> References: <200402271446.17574.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> <200402262103.45208.jkeating@j2solutions.net> <200402280338.15910.amd64@purple.dropbear.id.au> Message-ID: <403F927F.9030709@axis-dev.ca> Ashley Gittins wrote: > Robert, your point about static on the via sound chip was one thing that had > me planning to use my SBLive in the new system - my previous experience with > via sound chips had me a little worried about the whole via thing. Hopefully > it's only an issue with (some of?) their sound codecs. Under W2K I don't notice it so I am guessing it is a driver issue, I have a Via sound chip in my Compaq laptop and I never have this problem. Over all I am happy with the MSI board. I did replace the stock heatsink/fan with a ThermalTake Venus 12, and running flat out (100%) it does keep the CPU 1-2 deg C cooler. -- ...Rob -- "They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1706-1790 ===================================================================== Robert Goshko Axis Computer Consulting Services, Inc President Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada http://www.axis-dev.ca/ Supporting the Revolution In Your World ===================================================================== Registered Linux User #260513 GNU/Linux i686 2.4.22-26mdk-725ca Mandrake Linux 9.2 mobile AMD Athlon(tm) 4 1500+ 11:45:01 up 2:56, 1 user, load average: 0.04, 0.12, 0.17 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 242 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mharris at redhat.com Sat Feb 28 00:38:59 2004 From: mharris at redhat.com (Mike A. Harris) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:38:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Backward Compatibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Guillaume Chazarain wrote: >As I understand it the lib64/ thing is for old 32 bit >binary apps to run flawlessly side by side with x86_64 >apps. Does Fedora Core intent to provide 32 bit libs >for each package ? I understand it raises some packaging >problems but otherwise it defeats the compatibility >advantage. > >OTOH, if we assume there are really few 32 bit apps that >will survive in an 64 bit installation, then why not >keeping lib/ for 64 bit libs and installing 32 bit stuff >in /usr/i386-pc-linux-gnu/{bin,lib,...} ? > >I may have missed something since I don't currently own >an amd64, just anticipating. 'lib64' is used on AMD64, PPC64, and s390x as an official standard of where those architectures 64bit libraries exist. This is not a Red Hat specific thing, but is a global standard. You should be able to install Fedora Core x86 rpms on your AMD64 OS installation to get 32bit compatibility. No recompilation should be required, just install the 32bit libs, and you should be able to run 32bit apps. -- Mike A. Harris ftp://people.redhat.com/mharris OS Systems Engineer - XFree86 maintainer - Red Hat