From David.Messer at RelayHealth.com Mon Jan 14 17:03:28 2008 From: David.Messer at RelayHealth.com (Messer, David) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:03:28 -0800 Subject: Hello, Anyone Home Message-ID: Based on the scarcity of posts in the archives, I wonder, is there anyone on this list? If yes, Hello. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bdevouge at redhat.com Mon Jan 14 17:11:50 2008 From: bdevouge at redhat.com (Boris Devouge) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:11:50 +0000 Subject: Hello, Anyone Home In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478B97D6.6020002@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Messer, David wrote: | Based on the scarcity of posts in the archives, I wonder, is there | anyone on this list? Hi ... i am ... but as you said pretty quiet .... Regards. - -- Boris Devouge Senior Solution Architect mobile: +44 7921 700937 Red Hat UK -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHi5fWCUiVLVh62cERAhMkAJ4/EAkU8GRRmzIkkq2SjXS9n7xL2ACeO7cS QO9bedeEAhtbfl1kdSWkgTA= =Uyjo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From David.Messer at RelayHealth.com Mon Jan 14 17:27:13 2008 From: David.Messer at RelayHealth.com (Messer, David) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:27:13 -0800 Subject: Hello, Anyone Home In-Reply-To: <478B97D6.6020002@redhat.com> References: <478B97D6.6020002@redhat.com> Message-ID: I'm hope that's an indication that the installation and running is smooth and straight forward. :) David -----Original Message----- From: amd64-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:amd64-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Boris Devouge -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Messer, David wrote: | Based on the scarcity of posts in the archives, I wonder, is there | anyone on this list? Hi ... i am ... but as you said pretty quiet .... Regards. - -- Boris Devouge Senior Solution Architect mobile: +44 7921 700937 Red Hat UK -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHi5fWCUiVLVh62cERAhMkAJ4/EAkU8GRRmzIkkq2SjXS9n7xL2ACeO7cS QO9bedeEAhtbfl1kdSWkgTA= =Uyjo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- amd64-list mailing list amd64-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/amd64-list From David.Messer at RelayHealth.com Mon Jan 14 17:28:14 2008 From: David.Messer at RelayHealth.com (Messer, David) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:28:14 -0800 Subject: Hello, Anyone Home In-Reply-To: References: <7ec9371e0801140915p6bb33663y94846d7ba5e93219@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Meant to send this to the list... Weather here in the greater Phoenix area is 58 F and clear. How is it where you are? David -----Original Message----- From: Tom Weniger [mailto:trweniger at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:16 AM > > Based on the scarcity of posts in the archives, I wonder, is there anyone on > this list? > If yes, Hello. > David > Greetings Dave, How's the weather? -- Virtually, Tom W RLU# 243493 From David.Messer at RelayHealth.com Mon Jan 14 21:49:12 2008 From: David.Messer at RelayHealth.com (Messer, David) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:49:12 -0800 Subject: Build or Buy Built Message-ID: How do you buy your machines? Select components and put them together or buy an off the shelf machine such as a Dell? I've put together components - motherboard I think I like from ASUS, an AMD 64 X2, DDR2 ram that the ram manufacturer said would work with the motherboard, and a case that proved to have too little air flow. Still waiting for more fans by mail. I've put MS windows on it to try to get a feel for how well it's going to run as I'm not up to speed on Linux benchmarking. I'm hoping it will work when I try to put RHEL5 on it. Its purpose is to give me a place to learn Linux - it's a home machine. Thanks, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bdevouge at redhat.com Mon Jan 14 22:29:00 2008 From: bdevouge at redhat.com (Boris Devouge) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:29:00 +0000 Subject: Build or Buy Built In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478BE22C.8020400@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Messer, David wrote: | How do you buy your machines? Select components and put them together | or buy an off the shelf machine such as a Dell? | | I?ve put together components ? motherboard I think I like from ASUS, an | AMD 64 X2, DDR2 ram that the ram manufacturer said would work with the | motherboard, and a case that proved to have too little air flow. Still | waiting for more fans by mail. I?ve put MS windows on it to try to get | a feel for how well it?s going to run as I?m not up to speed on Linux | benchmarking. I?m hoping it will work when I try to put RHEL5 on it. | Its purpose is to give me a place to learn Linux - it?s a home machine. | Thanks, | | David | I will generally prefer to build my own from some quality components i have come across over the years. Specifically, i am mentioning them below. Your mileage may vary, but essentially those have been a great experience/rewarding purchase for me : Cases: Prefer well built aluminum cases. They help to stay cool, do not vibrate and provide lots of airflow, have no sharp edges, usually already setup with dual 120mm case fans. One name: Lian Li. They are sure expensive, but IMHO really worth the cost. http://www.lian-li.com/product/product.php Power supply : Tagan : Quiet, powerful enough and really reliable http://www.tagan.com/ Motherboards: usually Asus, Abit or Gigabyte. Ram: Do not believe the hype and buy expensive low latency ram that barely nobody could see the difference. Rather, get some Kingston dimms as they are guarantee for life ! http://www.kingston.com/ CPU fan / cooler : Zalman coolers are big, but they are sure effective. They will bring your processor temperature way down compare to the stock fans, but do not hesitate to invest into some very good thermal paste to put between your cooler and the CPU. Artic Silver is a good option. http://www.zalman.co.kr/ http://www.arcticsilver.com/ Again, all those are my personal preferences and experiences over the year building many boxes. If you want to learn linux on it, any box really will do, but the components i have highlighted, they will sure provide a durable and reliable machine. Do not under estimate the value of the case, as it is a easy upgrade, and really makes wonder when hosting the hardware. Of course this comes at a price, so starting with a Dell solution and slowly upgrading components is a good solution to spread cost over some length of time. Hope this helps. - -- Boris Devouge Senior Solution Architect mobile: +44 7921 700937 Red Hat UK -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHi+IsCUiVLVh62cERAlBCAJwLmJoBNMLUe8kFr/lctt5oK+OwMgCfd5FF TkhuF2DREwfrEk0N1r0spEg= =SaEY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From David.Messer at RelayHealth.com Tue Jan 15 05:17:32 2008 From: David.Messer at RelayHealth.com (Messer, David) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:17:32 -0800 Subject: Build or Buy Built In-Reply-To: <478BE22C.8020400@redhat.com> References: <478BE22C.8020400@redhat.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Boris, I appreciate the detail. I'd say the big lesson RE hardware I learned in my current project is the importance of the case. It came with two fans, but they were 80mm size and moved very little air. At 17-20 $US per fan (in the 70 cfm range), adding three fans easily doubled what I spent on the case. Even with a large household fan blowing into the open case the duel core runs on the high side of 50C at full load. ~DM -----Original Message----- From: amd64-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:amd64-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Boris Devouge From cochranb at speakeasy.net Wed Jan 16 02:44:37 2008 From: cochranb at speakeasy.net (Robert L Cochran) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:44:37 -0500 Subject: Quad Cores Message-ID: <478D6F95.8060907@speakeasy.net> I'd like to build a quad core machine for my wife, either AMD or Intel, but quad core. What motherboard and CPU combination will yield really good performance? Bob Cochran From David.Messer at RelayHealth.com Wed Jan 16 06:42:13 2008 From: David.Messer at RelayHealth.com (Messer, David) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:42:13 -0800 Subject: Quad Cores In-Reply-To: <478D6F95.8060907@speakeasy.net> References: <478D6F95.8060907@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: I found these interesting: http://techreport.com/articles.x/11964 http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/19/the_spider_weaves_its_web/page42. html The Wikipedia article indicates there is a shortcoming in the initial Phenom chips that may be fixed in the near future: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_(processor) ~David -----Original Message----- From: amd64-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:amd64-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Robert L Cochran Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:45 PM To: amd64-list at redhat.com Subject: Quad Cores I'd like to build a quad core machine for my wife, either AMD or Intel, but quad core. What motherboard and CPU combination will yield really good performance? Bob Cochran -- amd64-list mailing list amd64-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/amd64-list From wam at hiwaay.net Tue Jan 15 13:08:04 2008 From: wam at hiwaay.net (William A. Mahaffey III) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:08:04 -0600 Subject: Quad Cores In-Reply-To: <478D6F95.8060907@speakeasy.net> References: <478D6F95.8060907@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <478CB034.7060809@hiwaay.net> Robert L Cochran wrote: > I'd like to build a quad core machine for my wife, either AMD or > Intel, but quad core. What motherboard and CPU combination will yield > really good performance? > > Bob Cochran > 1st hand: Gigabyte 965P-DS3, Q6600 (Intel), 8 GB of RAM. *FAST*. However .... I am using it (under FC7) in runlevel 3 (as a poor-man's server), so can't comment on gfx performance, etc. We also have a Gigabyte P35-DS3 at work, runlevel 5 w/ FC7, 8 GB RAM, but a mundane gfx card (nVidia, PCIE-16X, 32 MB RAM, 6600 (I think)), works AOK, *FAST* CPU. I like AMD fine & dandy, but right now Intel has 'em for raw speed/performance .... -- William A. Mahaffey III ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war ever devised by man." -- Gen. George S. Patton Jr. From D.Mierzejewski at icm.edu.pl Thu Jan 17 14:25:55 2008 From: D.Mierzejewski at icm.edu.pl (Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:25:55 +0100 Subject: Quad Cores In-Reply-To: <478CB034.7060809@hiwaay.net> References: <478D6F95.8060907@speakeasy.net> <478CB034.7060809@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <20080117142555.GL2956@ws-rathann.icm.edu.pl> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 07:08:04AM -0600, William A. Mahaffey III wrote: > Robert L Cochran wrote: >> I'd like to build a quad core machine for my wife, either AMD or Intel, >> but quad core. What motherboard and CPU combination will yield really good >> performance? >> >> Bob Cochran >> > > 1st hand: Gigabyte 965P-DS3, Q6600 (Intel), 8 GB of RAM. *FAST*. However > .... I am using it (under FC7) in runlevel 3 (as a poor-man's server), so > can't comment on gfx performance, etc. We also have a Gigabyte P35-DS3 at > work, runlevel 5 w/ FC7, 8 GB RAM, but a mundane gfx card (nVidia, > PCIE-16X, 32 MB RAM, 6600 (I think)), works AOK, *FAST* CPU. I like AMD > fine & dandy, but right now Intel has 'em for raw speed/performance .... AMD beats Intel hands-down in power consumption, though: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/16/nnanda_benchmark_amd_and_intel_quad_cores/ 41% less watts (when idle) is much better than a few percent more speed in my book. Of course, if you're crunching numbers day and night, it might still be worth to buy Intel. Regards, R. -- Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski | LAN Staff Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and Computational Modelling Warsaw University | http://www.icm.edu.pl | tel. +48 (22) 5540810 From cochranb at speakeasy.net Thu Jan 17 21:13:17 2008 From: cochranb at speakeasy.net (Robert L Cochran) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: Freeing Seized/Frozen Laptop Screws Message-ID: <478FC4ED.5000901@speakeasy.net> I know this isn't exactly an AMD64 question, but I assume we all build boxes and along the way accumulated some expertise...anyhow, I have a Compaq Presario V5120NR laptop computer. The memory access door has two screws in it. One of these is captive and comes out part of the way. But the other one is in a recessed hole and it seems to be frozen solidly in there. My screwdriver is stripping some of the head off as I attempt to twist the screw out. I know, I shouldn't do that. Is there a way to get the screw unfrozen? Is there an ESD-safe version of WD40...or a lubricant that is safe for the electronics underneathe? Thanks Bob From bill at cse.ucdavis.edu Fri Jan 18 01:17:52 2008 From: bill at cse.ucdavis.edu (Bill Broadley) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:17:52 -0800 Subject: Quad Cores In-Reply-To: <20080117142555.GL2956@ws-rathann.icm.edu.pl> References: <478D6F95.8060907@speakeasy.net> <478CB034.7060809@hiwaay.net> <20080117142555.GL2956@ws-rathann.icm.edu.pl> Message-ID: <478FFE40.5010804@cse.ucdavis.edu> Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > AMD beats Intel hands-down in power consumption, though: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/16/nnanda_benchmark_amd_and_intel_quad_cores/ I saw this, looks like the typical biased marketing that is very common. Who paid for the research? > 41% less watts (when idle) is much better than a few percent more speed > in my book. Of course, if you're crunching numbers day and night, it > might still be worth to buy Intel. FB dimms are hot, that's not news. If you want more power efficiency buy intel systems that use DDR-II. Not to mention 2GB dimms instead of 1GB. Not to mention 45nm CPUs. Granted AMD enjoys advantages are higher dimm counts as well as higher socket counts. Then again intel is shipping quads and for the most part it seems like AMD isn't. From David.Messer at RelayHealth.com Fri Jan 18 17:06:23 2008 From: David.Messer at RelayHealth.com (Messer, David) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:06:23 -0800 Subject: Build or Buy Built In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the reply, Mark. Good point about vendors and custom parts, I'm sufficiently unwilling to pay for such parts that it wasn't on my radar. I can't really agree with you about cases being cheap, the singe core version of the chip I got was ~$60, the duel core version was ~$160. The case, IIRC, was ~$80. With fans and power supply, they easily run $200. I want four way quad core machines with fiber channel connected storage - these are conservative parts. ;-> ~David -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hahn [mailto:hahn at mcmaster.ca] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:13 PM To: Messer, David Cc: amd64-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: Build or Buy Built > How do you buy your machines? I usually build my home machines, but that's mainly for fun. buying from a known vendor is mainly useful when you don't want to spend your own time on the build or fixing problems, either because the number of machines is too large or just to improve your quality-of-life.) > Select components and put them together > or buy an off the shelf machine such as a Dell? there is not that much, technically, to gain from DIY - vendors are not stupid. sometimes, if you've chosen a particular vendor, they may not offer a config you really want. and vendors like Dell or HP almost always are pushing custom parts - not boxes that you can upgrade with generic parts 3 years from now. but then again, it's not all that common to actually replace motherboards anymore, and the window on upgrading a processor is sometimes only a year or two. > I've put together components - motherboard I think I like from ASUS, an > AMD 64 X2, DDR2 ram that the ram manufacturer said would work with the > motherboard, and a case that proved to have too little air flow. Still fortunately, cases are cheap. to me, a lot of airflow usually means that too-hot parts were chosen. if your goal is everything high-end (esp video cards, but also top-clocked cpus, etc), they you have to expect to need a case that mounts an obscene racket of fans. the good thing is that an integrated MB, low-volt midrange CPU can live happily in a case with very modest airflow... > Its purpose is to give me a place to learn Linux - it's a home machine. sounds like more conservative/low-end parts might have served you better... regards, mark hahn. From bdevouge at redhat.com Sat Jan 19 00:58:52 2008 From: bdevouge at redhat.com (Boris Devouge) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:58:52 +0000 Subject: Freeing Seized/Frozen Laptop Screws In-Reply-To: <478FC4ED.5000901@speakeasy.net> References: <478FC4ED.5000901@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <47914B4C.9070702@redhat.com> Robert L Cochran wrote: > I know this isn't exactly an AMD64 question, but I assume we all build > boxes and along the way accumulated some expertise...anyhow, I have a > Compaq Presario V5120NR laptop computer. The memory access door has two > screws in it. One of these is captive and comes out part of the way. But > the other one is in a recessed hole and it seems to be frozen solidly in > there. My screwdriver is stripping some of the head off as I attempt to > twist the screw out. I know, I shouldn't do that. Is there a way to get > the screw unfrozen? Is there an ESD-safe version of WD40...or a > lubricant that is safe for the electronics underneathe? > > Thanks > > Bob Tried Break Free CLP ? http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=840573