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Re: Reworking the Keyboard spoke



On Thu, 2014-01-23 at 18:54 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2014-01-23 at 21:38 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> > On 01/23/2014 09:12 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2014-01-23 at 20:50 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> > >
> > >> Okay. I'm not sure if I understand the first problem - can one layout
> > >> only be listed under one language/locale? And the Belgian layout was
> > >> only shown under Dutch instead of Belgian?
> > >
> > > There isn't a language called 'Belgian', but there is a Belgian keyboard
> > > layout. (This isn't the only example).
> > 
> > Oh hm. Would organizing via locales rather than languages help?
> 
> I haven't investigated in entirely sufficient detail to answer that
> authoritatively, but what I suspect is that there are cases where either
> will lead to an unexpected result. (At present, the code falls back on
> associating a layout with a locale only if it has no associated
> language).
There are some layouts that have no associated language but have an
associated country. So we will probably have to end up mixing languages
and countries in the list.

> 
> >  Is that 
> > what Vratislav's mockup is doing?
> 
> I believe instead it's about making it more feasible to list layouts as
> associated with multiple languages. In the mockup the 'Crimean Tatar;
> Crimean Turkish' and 'Divehi; Dhivehi; Maldivian' entries are intended
> to illustrate this, I *think*.
Those are the "official" names of the languages from the iso-codes
package not multiple languages concatenated on our side. But yes, with
two-level selection it is more feasible to find the layout where you are
looking for it.

> 
> If I'm right, now I consider it, I have two criticisms to offer:
> 
> 1. Belgian people probably don't think of their layout as being
> associated with any particular language. That's the *point* of the
> Belgian layout, after all, I guess - to be appropriate (or at least
> usable) for inputting either or both of Belgium's national languages
> (French and Dutch). So I would hazard a guess that Belgian people would
> consider the Belgian layout as associated with the country Belgium, not
> with any of the three languages xkeyboard-config denotes it as being
> associated with. Displaying its association with all three languages
> rather than just one is probably *less bad*, and less potentially
> divisive, but probably still not *the best possibility*. Of course,
> we're well aware that achieving the 'best possibility' for every damn
> case here, without special databases, is damn hard. :)
> 
> (FWIW, I did 5 minutes of Google research and found the Belgian layout
> is pretty similar to French and may be considered rather more useful for
> typing French than Dutch...but if any Belgians are reading, do chip in.
> If you want to A/B French and Belgian layouts, see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_France.svg and
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Belgian_pc_keyboard.svg )
Still there are complains (and you've found those bugs) that people are
searching for "Belgian" in our list of available layouts.

> 
> 2. If you're looking for a language which is part of one of these
> 'multiple' entries and isn't the first one, how are you going to find
> it? 
Explained above -- those are not 'multiple' entries on our side, but
language names coming from the iso-codes package.

-- 
Vratislav Podzimek

Anaconda Rider | Red Hat, Inc. | Brno - Czech Republic


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