Solaris 10 released, with accessibility built-in! Also FreeTTS 1.2 released. (fwd)

Wed Mar 23 04:54:40 UTC 2005

I was told by one of the people who worked with the earlier commercial 
versions of solaris that in order for this upgrade to install and work you 
have to have paid for and installed 10.0 on a machine.  If that's not the 
case and if I can get some kind of straight answer about the system's 
operating memory requirement I might download it and try it out.  I take 
it the accessibility install howto file is found on one of those install 
CD's?

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, david poehlman wrote:

> Yes, the lack of full support by windows to the console is a factor.  I
> would much rather use speak up than ssh from windows but I like being able
> to read all of the text and manipulate the full screen apps such as
> pine/pico and lynx through ssh from windows.  Yes, cut and paste are
> possible using ssh in windows and in fact, you can paste something from
> outside the shell into the shell.
>
> Johnnie Apple Seed
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenny Hitt" <kenny at hittsjunk.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list at redhat.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Solaris 10 released,with accessibility built-in! Also FreeTTS
> 1.2 released. (fwd)
>
>
> Hi.  Guess I should try to explain better.
>
>
> First, It's been almost 4 years since I've used Windows.  Whe you access
> a Linux system from Windows with (for example) ssh, the accessibility of
> the Windows ssh client plays an important role in the experience.  For
> me using a text console, there isn't any difference from a local log in
> or a ssh session.  I still see posts on lists from Windows users who are
> having problems that are caused by the Windows ssh client not being
> completely accessable.
> BTW, I know Windows users who know more about bash syntax than me
> because they spend more time at the shell while I spend more time
> running full screen dialog based apps.
>
> Also consider things like cutting and pasting text.  I know cut and
> paste is possible if you run screen on the remote system, but I find it
> much easier using speakup's cut and paste.  Do the Windows cut and paste
> functions work within the ssh client, or are you forced to use screen's
> cut and paste?
>
> One thing I forgot to add in my origional message was: when Gnome has
> cut and paste in a gnome-terminal and you can get the accessibility info
> from remote Gnome apps, I will have much less need for console access.
>
>          Kenny
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:39:03PM -0500, david poehlman wrote:
>> The accessibility through remote may be from windows, but since windows is
>> not serving it up except through special calls, we are actually using what
>> is provided on the host.
>>
>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kenny Hitt" <kenny at hittsjunk.net>
>> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list at redhat.com>
>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: Solaris 10 released,with accessibility built-in! Also FreeTTS
>> 1.2 released. (fwd)
>>
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 25, 2005 at 11:55:15AM -0800, Peter Korn wrote:
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> I am from Sun, so I don't qualify as the "non-Sun" person you are
>>> seeking.
>>> I also am sighted, so perhaps don't qualify as a sufficient authority by
>>> that measure.  However, I may have some useful information, so I'll
>>> chime
>>> in...
>>>
>>>
>>> The priority for our first release, as informed by the letter of the
>>> rules
>>> in Section 508, was a usable, accessible desktop for end-users.  This
>>> specifically meant that for the first release, accessible installation
>>> was
>>> a "nice to have", not a "must have".  Solaris, unlike Linux, doesn't
>>> have
>>> a
>>> notion of virtual text consoles in which you can run Speakup or BrlTTY.
>>> You can run BrlTTY on Solaris (we have been shipping them on the Solaris
>>> Companion CD for a little while now), but it doesn't run at as low a
>>> level
>>> in Solaris as they do in Linux.  See
>>> http://blogs.sun.com/roller/search/richb?q=Companion&c= for a blog entry
>>> from Rich Burridge on the contents of the Solaris Companion CD.
>>>
>>> GUI accessibility in Solaris 10 is very likely better than what most
>>> folks
>>> in the community have experienced.  This isn't because we've "held stuff
>>> back", or "added secret sauce".  Rather it is becaus there are a *lot*
>>> of
>>> components to put together to make this all work, and we've been
>>> building
>>> and testing the particular collection of versions for a while now in
>>> both
>>> Solaris and our upcoming Java Desktop System release 3 for Linux.  Many
>>> of
>>> the problems folks have encountered are due in part to older, or
>>> mis-matched versions of things. Web browsing in particular is
>>> significant
>>>  better using the Sun Mozilla branch (we've gotten about half of our
>>> accessibility patches put back to Mozilla trunk, with more going in
>>> every
>>> week; but the most accessible Mozilla on UNIX remains our branch, which
>>> is
>>> what we ship in Solaris 10).
>>>
>>
>> Are you still forced to read a web page line by line?  If so, anyone
>> using speech for output  will take much longer than they would with
>> lynx in a text console.  Even on pages that work well with Mozilla, I
>> find it much faster to read the page with lynx.
>>
>>> So Solaris 10 is probably "beyond what is available in Linux" from the
>>> point of view of what most people have put together in Linux.  But
>>> strictly
>>> speaking, *everything* we've done in Solaris 10 is "available" in
>>> Linux -
>>> you just have to do a bunch of work to put it together (and of course,
>>> that
>>> work is part of the value of going to a commercial, supported, UNIX
>>> distro
>>> and why many folks will pay Sun $50 for the retail edition of the Sun
>>> Java
>>> Desktop System).
>>>
>>> But... I wouldn't say that the shipping Solaris 10 is dramatically
>>> beyond
>>> what many have experienced on their own with Linux.  Perhaps others will
>>> disagree - I've spent very little time trying to roll my own stuff on
>>> top
>>> of Debian or Fedora or what-have-you.  Even so, this is a *first*
>>> release.
>>> Compared to outSPOKEN 1.0, or JAWS 1.0, I think this is far superior,
>>> and
>>> far more functional.  And I personally know a number of folks who were
>>> pretty successful with outSPOKEN 1.0 (and especially outSPOKEN 1.1).
>>> And
>>> certainly compared to the built-in GUI access options on Windows, there
>>> is
>>> no question as to how much more functional Solaris 10 is.  But we
>>> certainly
>>> have a good distance to go before we can rival JAWS 5.x, or ZoomText
>>> 8.x,
>>> or...  And a user who is very comfortable and productive in the Linux
>>> console will probably find they prefer that environment - at least for
>>>  many/most things.  One blind user data-point to counter that: someone
>>> on
>>> one of the GNOME accessibility mailing lists said he has moved over to
>>> Gnopernicus and Mozilla exclusively for web browsing now, and no longer
>>> uses lynx.  As they say, your mileage may vary...
>>>
>> I agree Gnome accessibility is better than what I had in Windows 3.11
>> and JFW 2.0 back in 1996.  I have switch to using Gnome for all my multi
>> media playback.  Totem rocks!
>>
>> I find some types of file management are easier in nautilus than
>> they would be using wild cards in a terminal.  I've also noticed I
>> usually have few problems with accessibility when I try a new gtk 2 app.
>> I have my system configured to boot to a gdm login and I always keep a
>> Gnome session running in addition to text consoles.
>> However, I still don't think it is possible for a blind person using
>> speech output to be productive using only Gnome and Gnopernicus.
>> I know that will eventually change, but it isn't there yet.
>>
>> You should be aware the person whoclames to be using Gnopernicus
>> and Mozilla instead of Lynx spends very little time running Linux.
>> Based on his mail headers and earlier posts from him, he spends
>> most of his time in MS Windows.  I believe he uses Windows for his job,
>> so his Linux experience  is only for short times on limited occasions.
>>
>> For accessibility purposes, I don't believe controlling a Linux box from
>> a Windows counts as Linux experience.  True you know Unix commands, but
>> the accessibility is still from Windows.
>>
>>
>>           Kenny
>>
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