How did people here learn GUIs
janina at rednote.net
Tue Jul 19 18:11:09 UTC 2016
I think as a general rule, Cheryl is quite correct. Support for the
terminal in Voice Over, and in every gui screen reader I know is frankly
subpar. We got to the point in DOS where the screen readers, especially
asap and vocal-eyes, were powerful and able to change configurations on
the fly to deal with different screens properly. Even Speakup can't do
that like they did, though I use Speakup far more than any gui, even
Gnome and Orca.
Cheryl Homiak writes:
> I think this is really a pretty complex issue. It really depends to some extent on how people started out. Those of us who started out with DOS and linux and didn't quickly go the Windows route I believe often prefer or at least like the command line. Those who never did DOS or linux or went straight from DOS to Windows probably do prefer the gui. For Mac users who didn't come from a linux/Unix background, because voiceover isn't as friendly in the terminal, the gui appears usually to be the preference. I still use the command-line every single day and I use brltty on my Mac in terminal and only use Apple braille for the gui. It makes me sad to hear people say, as several did in a class i took recently, that they hate using or are uncomfortable using the terminal; the training guide I have for certification as a support professional repeatedly admits there are things that can be done in terminal that can't be done easily or can't be done at all from the gui yet it appears that Apple requires less and less knowledge of command-line usage and understanding of the Unix underpinnings than used to be required. I very much enjoy the gui and wouldn't want to go back to command-line only but neither do I want to lose my command-line skills. I think the fact that I really have very little skill in the gui in linux has to do mostly with the fact that I began using the Mac when Voiceover was introduced. I still use linux though right at this moment I don't have a linux installation, but I've never really gone to the effort of learning the gui in linux because I mostly meet my needs as far as gui with Mac OS. Probably I should work on mastering the gui in linux also, but I honestly don't know whether I will ever do that, at least as long as I can use Mac OS and i-devices and even a Kindle fire.
> > On Jul 18, 2016, at 11:53 AM, John J. Boyer <john.boyer at abilitiessoft.org> wrote:
> > My experience is that most blind people like a GUI with a screen reader
> > better than the command line. Those who have teouble with GUIs, like me,
> > seem to be decidedly in the minority.
> > John
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 12:29:39AM +0200, Anders Holmberg wrote:
> >> Hi!
> >> Thats intresting.
> >> I am the total oposit guy.
> >> I had and have no problems learning gui’s but for me the command line is to hard.
> >> Although i began with a debian command line system 16 years ago and gave that up for windows a couple of years.
> >> Now i am back to vinux and a mac with osx.
> >> I whish i was patient enough to learn command line.
> >> Maybe i am to dum or maybe i am lazy.
> >> /A
> >>> On 17 Jul 2016, at 22:57, Sam Hartman <hartmans at mit.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> "John" == John J Boyer <john.boyer at abilitiessoft.org> writes:
> >>> John> I';ve been trying to get a feel for GUIs for years. Sighted
> >>> John> colleagues are no help. They only tell me how they use the
> >>> John> mouse. They won't use a keyboard shourcut even when it is much
> >>> John> simpler. For example, they will scroll down a long document
> >>> John> instead of using ctrl+f to find something. i've tried
> >>> John> unsuccessfully tpo find a Jaws trainer. After I reinstalled
> >>> John> Windows 7 recently Jaws wouldn't install. I'm now using NVDA
> >>> John> and I don't think I'll go back to Jaws.
> >>> This is really interesting, because now I'm realizing that I don't know
> >>> how to teach someone GUIs on modern equipment at all.
> >>> I don't know if I can find a solution, but I'll see if I can toss the
> >>> question around.
> >>> I hear your frustration completely about people who know one way of
> >>> doing something and who aren't even great at articulating that.
> >>> I started to say "well, understanding the mouse at least well enough to
> >>> get your screen reader to click places and stuff is worth knowing.
> >>> That's true of course, although I just realized that most of the screen
> >>> readers I use these days actually wouldn't let me click usefully on a
> >>> scroll bar if I wanted to.
> >>> So, even if you wanted to be incredibly slow, you can't get work done
> >>> just understanding the mouse operations.
> >>> Thanks for helping me understand an interesting challenge; I'll let you
> >>> know if I come up with anything that might help at all.
> >>> --Sam
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blinux-list mailing list
> >>> Blinux-list at redhat.com
> >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blinux-list mailing list
> >> Blinux-list at redhat.com
> >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > --
> > John J. Boyer; President,
> > AbilitiesSoft, Inc.
> > Email: john.boyer at abilitiessoft.org
> > Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
> > Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit
> > Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
> > Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with
> > disabilities which are available at no cost.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list at redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list at redhat.com
Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net
Email: janina at rednote.net
Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
More information about the Blinux-list