text browsers and current web standards

Tue Jun 27 16:36:18 UTC 2017

This is Janina ...

I'm the one who's involved in W3C/WAI.

Quick comment on this thread ...

1.)	It's great to see Lynx still being updated for what can
reasonably be supported. I say it that way because adding javascript
support would be a massive, and unending task, i.e. I can show you sites
where current Firefox and current Google Chrome don't work, but Chrome
Canary does work.

2.)	The W3C/WAI approach for making dynamic scripted content, i.e.
javascript accessible is ARIA:

http://www.w3.org/wai/aria

Adding aria support to lynx might be a reasonable addition for someone
to take on. It would be a much more achievable objective than supporting
all of javascript.

And, if the current expectations for next generation ARIA are realized,
we would have full aria analogs for all html 5.x elements. But, that's
in the planning stage only as of now, and would eventually become ARIA
version 1.2. At the moment, ARIA is heads down completing ARIA 1.1.

hth

Janina

Linux for blind general discussion writes:
> No I am not a member of that group.
> I will look into the latest lynx.
> By the sound of it there was some new development.
> Regards, Willem
> 
> 
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> 
> > The web standards are here.
> > www.w3c.org/wai
> > In the most current edition of lynx here on shellworld there is an
> > option, support html5.
> > even this one is older than the w2.8.9.dev14 or so that came out in mid June.
> > You are a member of the wAI interest  group of the w3c?
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 23 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> > 
> > > The problem we face with text-based browsers is that they do not get
> > > updated to support the current web standards.
> > > As much as I love and use lynx the cat, I no longer expect people to
> > > make their web sites accessible for use with a browser of which the
> > > support of the standards has fallen behind so much.
> > > IMHO, for a web browser to be seen as current, it must support at
> > > least html4, but preferably html5.
> > > The last update the lynx browser received was related to ssl in some way.
> > > I am gratefull for that as before that update, some sites became
> > > inaccessible, simply because the people running them had to update
> > > their security settings and ssl libraries.
> > > 
> > > I believe the practical approach to be the one taken by Kirk Reiser
> > > when it was decided to develope clifox.
> > > For those who do not know, clifox is basicly a console-only
> > > interface to firefox.
> > > Clifox is not out of alfa or at the best beta, but as long as
> > > firefox itself gets updated to support all the latest standards,
> > > clifox will remain usable.
> > > 
> > > Just my twenty cents or so.
> > > Regards, Willem van der Walt
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> > > 
> > > >  May i ask when wacg 2.0 changed to reflect your point?
> > > >  The success criteria requires a site to support all current and future
> > > >  tools. Lynx is current as of what two weeks ago?
> > > >  Links, and e-links are not actually text based, just text friendly.
> > > >  If developers are excluding populations, many in countries where Internet
> > > >  bondage is an issue use them as well, it is perhaps  because of plug &
> > > >  play blind person concepts. those perpetuated, more often than not, by
> > > >  those  who feel that  all blind people are the same using the
> > > > same tools.
> > > >  Chimes, let me go back and look at where Paul is sending you.
> > > >  Karen
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >  Well, I should note that text based browsers are usually no
> > > > longer > considered when trying to develop accessible websites,
> > > > so your mileage > will vary greatly when using a text-based
> > > > browser, even when a site can > be accessed with no trouble
> > > > using Firefox, Seamonkey or Chromium. For > example, whereas you
> > > > had problems accessing the links I posted earlier, > I had no
> > > > trouble at all accessing them in Firefox. I would copy and >
> > > > paste the information from the channel contact list I posted,
> > > > but this > relies on having a link to the contact or support
> > > > page for each channel > listed, and once you get there, even if
> > > > I was to be able to copy and > paste each link, the contact or
> > > > support page will likely be unfriendly > to text only browsers,
> > > > as they don't adhere to current HTML standards. > Sorry for the
> > > > trouble, it's just the way even the w3c handles things now > as
> > > > far as I can tell.
> > > > > >  After doing a rather thorough search for Roku accessibility
> > > > groups or >  blind Roku users, I find only a single post on a
> > > > blind tech list that > refers to what would appear to be an
> > > > early model Streaming Stick > available at Walmart last year. So
> > > > I'll likely start an e-mail list or > similar. Thoughts are
> > > > welcome, i.e. should this be specific to Roku > devices for the
> > > > most part, or should it cover all accessible TV devices >
> > > > including the latest cable box offerings? In answering this
> > > > question, it > is important to note that the Chromecast and
> > > > Android TV devices are on > topic on the eyes-free Android list,
> > > > and the Apple TV is on topic on > AppleVis. About the only thing
> > > > I can think of at this point that isn't > covered elsewhere is
> > > > the Amazon Fire TV line, including the Fire TV > Stick, the Fire
> > > > TV box and the up and coming Fire TV with Alexa, the one >
> > > > that's a complete TV that is said to be released in the coming
> > > > months, > not the device that connects to an existing TV. Of
> > > > course there are also > the LG and Samsung TV's that have
> > > > accessibility built into their high > end models, and they are
> > > > also not covered anywhere as far as I know, > although they have
> > > > varying levels of accessibility and different methods > of
> > > > accessing screen reader/audible guide features. In any case, if
> > > > a > general accessible TV list is most desirable, then a general
> > > > accessible > TV list it will be, although that will quickly go
> > > > all over the map, so > may be harder to manage, since too many
> > > > devices with too much variation > in features and methods of
> > > > access could become problematic.
> > > > > >  The next question would be the format. Is it to be an
> > > > e-mail list, a >  forum, a group on a social media platform,
> > > > ...? What type of moderation, >  if any, do we want? Should it
> > > > be a strictly on topic list or group, or >  should it be very
> > > > loose and relaxed? Just some starter thoughts. Feel >  free to
> > > > answer any questions or ask questions of your own.
> > > > > ~  Kyle
> > > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > >  Blinux-list mailing list
> > > > >  Blinux-list at redhat.com
> > > > >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > > > > >
> > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > >  Blinux-list mailing list
> > > >  Blinux-list at redhat.com
> > > >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
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-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina at rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa