installing bsd with speech
Kelly Prescott
kprescott at coolip.net
Tue Mar 21 12:17:31 UTC 2017
I have just discovered that the updates to the kernel in archlinux makes
speakup not talk with the curses console output.
I have not had time to figure out why, but a work around is to use ssh
into the box you are running qemu on and that solves the problem.
kp
On Fri, 17 Mar 2017, Kelly Prescott wrote:
> Ok, there is not a link, here is what I do.
> Make sure you are logged into your system at a text console with speakup
> running.
> ***DO*** not do this in a X session or it will not work.
>
> I create a image file.
> qemu-img create -o size=16G -f raw openbsd.img
> Change to taste.
> Here is the qemu install command I use for the current release.
>
> qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -soundhw ac97 -machine type=pc,accel=kvm
> -curses -m 1024 -cdrom install60.iso -boot order=d openbsd.img
> Here is the command I use once the install is finished for normal booting.
> qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -soundhw ac97 -machine type=pc,accel=kvm
> -curses -m 1024 openbsd.img
>
> Remember, these commands are probably put on more than one line by the mailer
> software.
> This works on anything with a text-based install, freebsd, netbsd, openbsd,
> pfsense etc...
>
> Have fun.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Eric Oyen wrote:
>
>> ok, can you send me the link with how to do that? I would certainly
>> appreciate it a lot.
>>
>> -eric
>> from the central office of the Technomage Guild, Access technology
>> Division 6.
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:
>>
>> > I use BSD all the time.
>> > I use Qemu to set them up.
>> > This gives me the text consoles and I can install them and speakup does
>> > the work.
>> > I do NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD all that way.
>> > once they are installed, I just ssh to them.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Eric Oyen wrote:
>> >
>> > > that was one of the things I tried. I never could get it to work. Of
>> > > course, someone may have properly ported it since I last tried some 4
>> > > years ago.
>> > >
>> > > the only thing severely lacking in OpenBSD is braille/speech support
>> > > in the installation. I mean, seriously, its a text based console
>> > > environment so it should be rather easy to do, but getting Theo to see
>> > > that is like pulling Teeth!
>> > >
>> > > oh well, I will get a little sighted assistance here in the next few
>> > > days and get an image setup under vmware. then I can get the post
>> > > config done and actually be able to log into it. at that point, it
>> > > should be relatively easy to add the ports tree and compile BrlTTY.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > meanwhile, back to the actual issue at hand…. Does anyone here
>> > > remember openSuse? I spent more than a year trying to get them to make
>> > > their product accessible. Their version of Linux had some nice
>> > > features, but it wouldn't work with any screen readers and there were
>> > > no packages for such either. I kept asking on their forums and
>> > > eventually a developer chimed in and stated they had no interest in
>> > > making their product accessible (claiming too much work, etc. etc.).
>> > > That was 7 years ago and they are still not accessible. So, it isn't
>> > > just fedora that has an issue with us.
>> > >
>> > > so, my question is this: why is Vinux now merging with SONAR (a Fedora
>> > > based project) when Fedora is known to have little interest in our
>> > > needs? I don't know about the rest of you, but it seems to me that we
>> > > are being treated like the red headed step child here.
>> > >
>> > > -eric
>> > > from the central office of the Technomage Guild, access technology
>> > > division 6.
>> > >
>> > > On Mar 16, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi!
>> > > > I think you can build brltty for bsd.
>> > > > But i am not sure.
>> > > > And that requiers a braille display.
>> > > > /A
>> > > > > 16 mars 2017 kl. 21:57 skrev Eric Oyen <eric.oyen at icloud.com>:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > and now we see the crux of the issue. its called a lack of proper
>> > > > > attention to the problem.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > this is the biggest holdup to a lot of us blind folks, lack of
>> > > > > coherent information. It's most telling in the local activities
>> > > > > and events arena, but it shows up in technology as well. SOunds
>> > > > > like it's time to spread the news on FB, swarm, snap chat,
>> > > > > twitter, and any other social media outlet we can find. I might
>> > > > > even point this article at Theo De Raadt of OpenBSD and see if he
>> > > > > will actually consider it.. It would be nice to have a little
>> > > > > support from some of the big names behind alternative Operating
>> > > > > systems (like the BSD ecology or the Linux ecology). In fact, I
>> > > > > will cc this missive to them. I doubt it will get any sort of
>> > > > > useful response, but there is no harm in trying.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > btw, I was involved in trying to get a screen reader working in
>> > > > > OpenBSD. It was speakeasy and it failed rather ignominiously.
>> > > > > Since I am not a coder, I didn't exactly have the tools required
>> > > > > to properly port it. what I ended up with only partially worked.
>> > > > > Getting any help from the OpenBSD development corps was a lost
>> > > > > cause right from the outset. Here it is over 4 years later and I
>> > > > > have one since given up on ever getting some help from them.
>> > > > > Perhaps it's time that a bunch of us bug Theo directly. if he gets
>> > > > > enough emails on the subject, he might reconsider his position.
>> > > > > His developer email is Theo de Raadt <deraadt at cvs.openbsd.org>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > anyway, it also sounds like we need to get everyone else in the
>> > > > > community of the blind on board with this. that means hitting up
>> > > > > the various lighthouse organizations, the NFB, the ACB, and the
>> > > > > AFB as well as the world blind union. SInce I am also on a number
>> > > > > of technology lists dedicated to blind users and technology
>> > > > > (including almost all of the mac lists for the blind), it
>> > > > > shouldn't be that hard to get this information out. perhaps
>> > > > > partnering up with a few of the bigger blindness blogs wouldn't
>> > > > > hurt either.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -eric
>> > > > > from the central office of the Technomage Guild, access technology
>> > > > > division 6.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Mar 16, 2017, at 8:39 AM, John G Heim wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > It's funny you should say it's long overdue for there to be a
>> > > > > > blindness related non-profit. I was part of a group who created
>> > > > > > exactly that several years ago. After much discussion, we called
>> > > > > > ourselves The International Association Of Visually Impaired
>> > > > > > Technologists or IAVIT. See www.iavit.org.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > After creating the non-profit, the real problem has been lack of
>> > > > > > interest in using it's resources. We are incorporated as a 501c3
>> > > > > > in the USA so we can legally accept donations. We have a lawyer,
>> > > > > > a bank account, a paypal account at the non-profit rates,
>> > > > > > donated server space, etc. The entire infrastructure is there.
>> > > > > > We're just waiting for people to say, "Hey, I could use this or
>> > > > > > that."
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On 03/16/2017 07:53 AM, Tony Baechler wrote:
>> > > > > > > Be warned that my comments are most likely unpopular and
>> > > > > > > controversial.
>> > > > > > > See below. I'm not really interested in discussing this
>> > > > > > > further, so
>> > > > > > > don't expect a response.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On 3/15/2017 3:30 AM, Kyle wrote:
>> > > > > > > > Sonar merges with the Vinux Project.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Well, this is indeed unfortunate. First, it was never said
>> > > > > > > what "common
>> > > > > > > goals" were discussed. Granted I don't closely follow either
>> > > > > > > project,
>> > > > > > > but I'm disappointed and surprised to see Vinux heading
>> > > > > > > towards a Fedora
>> > > > > > > base. Red Hat has stated many, even numerous times, both in
>> > > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > inaction and in published docs on their sites, that they have
>> > > > > > > no or very
>> > > > > > > little interest in core accessibility. Yes, I realize this
>> > > > > > > list is
>> > > > > > > hosted by Red Hat, but honestly, anyone can host a mailing
>> > > > > > > list
>> > > > > > > nowadays, so to me, that doesn't count. Look at groups.io,
>> > > > > > > Yahoo Groups,
>> > > > > > > etc. Unlike Debian, Ubuntu and Slackware, to the best of my
>> > > > > > > knowledge,
>> > > > > > > Fedora has never made their installer accessible out of the
>> > > > > > > box. I
>> > > > > > > understand that now their installer talks with Orca, but I
>> > > > > > > think that's
>> > > > > > > more by accident than anything. Fedora does claim to have
>> > > > > > > accessibility
>> > > > > > > with the Gnome desktop though, but I don't think one can
>> > > > > > > easily use
>> > > > > > > Speakup and a text console to do the install. I could very
>> > > > > > > well be wrong
>> > > > > > > on this as I quit following Fedora years ago for the above
>> > > > > > > reasons.
>> > > > > > > There were projects like Speakup Modified (now dead I think),
>> > > > > > > but they
>> > > > > > > were community projects with no support from Fedora
>> > > > > > > developers.
>> > > > > > > Presumably, since Sonar is being folded in, they will use a
>> > > > > > > distro other
>> > > > > > > than Fedora. In the long term, I think Fedora would be a very
>> > > > > > > bad idea
>> > > > > > > for many reasons which I won't go into here.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I think it's a great idea for there to be an a11y, or even
>> > > > > > > blindness-specific nonprofit to be formed. I would even say
>> > > > > > > it's very
>> > > > > > > long overdue. If Apache, Mozilla, the Linux kernel and many
>> > > > > > > others can
>> > > > > > > do it, there is no reason why the blind community can't. I
>> > > > > > > would even
>> > > > > > > suggest moving this and other Linux lists to that
>> > > > > > > organization. Yes, I
>> > > > > > > realize that nonprofit and not-for-profit are different. I
>> > > > > > > would push to
>> > > > > > > make it a U.S based nonprofit. Start a Kickstarter or other
>> > > > > > > fundraising
>> > > > > > > compaign. I would donate to it. As much as Facebook doesn't
>> > > > > > > support
>> > > > > > > accessibility and generally is against the open source spirit,
>> > > > > > > a page on
>> > > > > > > there, Twitter, Tumblr, etc would be a very good idea. There
>> > > > > > > needs to be
>> > > > > > > a strong publicity team to write articles for both the
>> > > > > > > blindness
>> > > > > > > magazines (ACB Braille Forum, etc) and the mainstream Linux
>> > > > > > > magazines
>> > > > > > > like LWN. Amazingly, there has been almost no mention of
>> > > > > > > Speakup in the
>> > > > > > > mainstream Linux community at all. I think a fair number of
>> > > > > > > companies
>> > > > > > > and developers don't take us seriously because they don't know
>> > > > > > > we exist
>> > > > > > > and that blind people not only can and do use computers but in
>> > > > > > > fact can
>> > > > > > > and do use Linux on a regular basis. I just got an email from
>> > > > > > > someone
>> > > > > > > asking if I'm blind, how do I read and write? There is still a
>> > > > > > > huge
>> > > > > > > amount of ignorance out there. I realize this isn't strictly a
>> > > > > > > Linux
>> > > > > > > accessibility issue, but what leads to the next great
>> > > > > > > breakthrough might
>> > > > > > > be started by a developer seeing that blind people want an
>> > > > > > > accessible
>> > > > > > > desktop like everyone else. With an actual organization, KDE
>> > > > > > > could be
>> > > > > > > pushed for accessibility and developers from the organization
>> > > > > > > could
>> > > > > > > help. In other words, not only does it need to be a nonprofit
>> > > > > > > a11y
>> > > > > > > organization who works with other developers and develops
>> > > > > > > software, but
>> > > > > > > it also needs to be an advocacy and lobbyist group to demand
>> > > > > > > big and
>> > > > > > > small companies make their software accessible.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > However, I see a huge flaw in the merger. I think we're going
>> > > > > > > down the
>> > > > > > > same path as Windows screen readers. I'm not saying that Vinux
>> > > > > > > would go
>> > > > > > > commercial. What I'm saying is I fear they would end up like a
>> > > > > > > big
>> > > > > > > company who shall remain nameless. There are other screen
>> > > > > > > readers out
>> > > > > > > there such as NVDA, but very few people take them seriously
>> > > > > > > because this
>> > > > > > > big company has almost a monopoly. Granted, Linux is still far
>> > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > having a huge share of the market, but if it should reach the
>> > > > > > > 90% or
>> > > > > > > even 50% point some day, it would be very unfortunate for
>> > > > > > > rehab agencies
>> > > > > > > and employers to force people to use Vinux because that's the
>> > > > > > > only
>> > > > > > > specialized distro for the blind. What would be much better is
>> > > > > > > to work
>> > > > > > > with the mainstream distros like Debian and Ubuntu to fix
>> > > > > > > accessibility
>> > > > > > > problems. Ubuntu is the most popular distro on the desktop.
>> > > > > > > While
>> > > > > > > accessibility is good, it has problems. When 16.04 came out,
>> > > > > > > Orca was
>> > > > > > > broken. I believe there are only a small number (no more than
>> > > > > > > a few)
>> > > > > > > people on the accessibility team. Debian could also
>> > > > > > > desperately use
>> > > > > > > help. It would look much better for the blind community if an
>> > > > > > > organization donated their time and talents to auditing the
>> > > > > > > packages in
>> > > > > > > Debian and either fixing those with accessibility bugs which
>> > > > > > > could
>> > > > > > > easily be fixed or working with the upstream developers,
>> > > > > > > providing
>> > > > > > > patches and consulting with them to make their packages more
>> > > > > > > accessible.
>> > > > > > > To me, it seems like a huge waste of time to put a ton of
>> > > > > > > energy into
>> > > > > > > beating Fedora, Ubuntu or whatever distro into submission and
>> > > > > > > slapping a
>> > > > > > > "Vinux" or "Sonar" label on it when that same upstream distro
>> > > > > > > with very
>> > > > > > > few tweaks could be made that way out of the box. If you
>> > > > > > > absolutely must
>> > > > > > > modify packages, desktop settings, etc from the upstream
>> > > > > > > defaults, such
>> > > > > > > as for low vision users, create a Vinux repository instead or
>> > > > > > > work with
>> > > > > > > the Ubuntu community to create an official Ubuntu flavor
>> > > > > > > called Ubuntu
>> > > > > > > VI or something. There is already a Ubuntu MATE flavor, so why
>> > > > > > > not work
>> > > > > > > with them directly? While we're at it, what about Orca? I see
>> > > > > > > only one
>> > > > > > > main paid developer working on it. I'm sure she could use some
>> > > > > > > help, not
>> > > > > > > to mention thorough testing. Getting back to the Windows
>> > > > > > > screen readers,
>> > > > > > > I fear that blind people will not be given the choice of what
>> > > > > > > distro
>> > > > > > > they want and will be locked out of mainstream use because
>> > > > > > > there is
>> > > > > > > primarily one Vinux to rule them all.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > In conclusion, I will continue not recommending any
>> > > > > > > specialized distro
>> > > > > > > to my clients and other people. I think they are almost always
>> > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > mistake. As we have seen yet again, it does lead to
>> > > > > > > fragmentation and
>> > > > > > > generally bad luck for all concerned. I couldn't get any of
>> > > > > > > them (Sonar,
>> > > > > > > Vinux or Talking Arch) to work reliably on my 2009 machine
>> > > > > > > which runs XP
>> > > > > > > great and has a very old, well-supported standard sound card.
>> > > > > > > I had to
>> > > > > > > invent my own live / rescue CD because there wasn't anything
>> > > > > > > reliable.
>> > > > > > > Hopefully the official Debian rescue CD will have reliable
>> > > > > > > speech soon.
>> > > > > > > Something like a Vinux rescue CD would be a great idea, but
>> > > > > > > not a live
>> > > > > > > system with an unreliable graphical desktop, horrible speech
>> > > > > > > (ESpeak)
>> > > > > > > and an unreliable infrastructure which crashes for no obvious
>> > > > > > > reason
>> > > > > > > while the mainstream Debian and Ubuntu distros don't. All of
>> > > > > > > that said,
>> > > > > > > I wish both teams the best of luck and I guess we'll see what
>> > > > > > > happens. I
>> > > > > > > would only add that if you haven't taken the plunge and
>> > > > > > > actually tried
>> > > > > > > Linux, give Ubuntu MATE a try. It's fast, works well and can
>> > > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > installed independently by the blind in about an hour. It
>> > > > > > > does,
>> > > > > > > unfortunately, still use ESpeak. Getting a commercial company
>> > > > > > > to release
>> > > > > > > a decent synth as open source would be a great thing for a
>> > > > > > > nonprofit to
>> > > > > > > do, even if it required buying the rights.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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