"Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
Linux for blind general discussion
blinux-list at redhat.com
Thu Aug 18 15:03:10 UTC 2022
You are quite correct.
what began as a discussion on how Fedora is, and is not, actually
addressing accessibility has dissolved into something entirely
less productive.
I apologize for my part in that aspect.
Best,
Karen
On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Might I ask what the firetruck this has to do w/Linux accessibility, &
> why this branch of the discussion is allowed to persist, except, of
> course, for the fact there's no moderator.
>
> Come on, yall--this is normally a productive list--it's now nothing
> more than a dumpster fire. Can yall *please* QUIT!
>
> On 8/17/22, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list at redhat.com> wrote:
>> Glen,
>> I have no reason to follow up on anything. The role of a commission, and
>> the duty of a rehab system employee are two different things.
>> that you state you work for a nfb philosophy rehab office speaks volumes
>> for your integrity.
>> clearly your staff simply tell this commission what they want to hear, or
>> they exist in name only.
>> nothing changes your description of your state.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>
>>> I knew you wouldn't follow up on it, they would just laugh at you.
>>> Glenn
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb at shellworld.net>; "John G. Heim"
>>> <jheim at wisc.edu>;
>>> <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>> Glen,
>>> why would I bother?
>>> your own words as a seasoned employee speak for themselves.
>>> Nebraska is an NFB philosophy state.
>>> Were you here in Ontario, that could be a human rights violation, since
>>> here the code establishes that claiming everyone sharing a label
>>> accommodates the same is a violation of the individual's human rights.
>>> No wonder the state of new York supported my professional move, if rehab
>>> systems like yours are Nfb puppets.
>>> The commission is not the individual rehab staffer, who states he makes
>>> decisions using a NFB dictionary.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Karen,
>>>> Start out at the web site for
>>>> Nebraska Commission for the Blind.
>>>> There are links to communicate with all the board members, who are
>>>> appointed
>>>> by the governor.
>>>> Glenn
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb at shellworld.net>; "John G. Heim"
>>>> <jheim at wisc.edu>;
>>>> <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do what?
>>>> where I am it is actually a violation of vendor contract to tell someone
>>>> they must use a certain tool.
>>>> give them the chance in an office to try several things yes.
>>>> Force jaws down their throat like rehab does no.
>>>> I said I wished I knew someone in Nebraska media not that I
>>>> did...although
>>>> perhaps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb at shellworld.net>; "John G. Heim"
>>>>> <jheim at wisc.edu>;
>>>>> <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 3:46 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Glen,
>>>>> you are missing the point.
>>>>> A commission board, at least if constructed with integrity serves as a
>>>>> watchdog for your organization's activities.
>>>>> Making sure that you act, objectively, and above influence with
>>>>> government
>>>>> funding.
>>>>> That role differs from a public servant, like yourself.
>>>>> In fact that the commission has members from both organizations is
>>>>> exactly why you should not be a member.
>>>>> if, as you said, the state has an Nfb philosophy, I wonder just how
>>>>> above
>>>>> influence that commission actually is, lip service attendance does not
>>>>> translate to the statement you freely made.
>>>>> Honestly, i wish I knew someone with Nebraska public radio. there is a
>>>>> investigative, data journalism piece right here, exploring how
>>>>> objective
>>>>> your office is in fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Karen,
>>>>>> In Nebraska, the commission board attends both consumer groups' state
>>>>>> conventions.
>>>>>> So there is total transparency within the consumer groups.
>>>>>> The agency sends clients to both conventions for educational purposes.
>>>>>> Some can go to either national convention on the state.
>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb at shellworld.net>; "John G. Heim"
>>>>>> <jheim at wisc.edu>;
>>>>>> <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 2:06 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>> Your first duty is to those clients You serve. as illustrated here
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Nfb
>>>>>> used their ability to reach insiders to influence policy to the
>>>>>> detriment
>>>>>> of the broader community...same can clearly be said for freedom
>>>>>> scientific.
>>>>>> That you stated clearly that your rehab system runs on an nfb
>>>>>> philosophy
>>>>>> illustrates my point perfectly.
>>>>>> There are countless legal terms for such conflicts of interest, I
>>>>>> dare
>>>>>> say if you were serving any other clientele your government watchdog
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> put a stop to the practice.
>>>>>> allows the organization to have undue almost antitrust influence on
>>>>>> people's lives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think so, we are people first, and being a government
>>>>>>> employee
>>>>>>> should not preclude personal rights.
>>>>>>> Besides, I attended the conventions for CEU credits, but I never
>>>>>>> joined
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> dues.
>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>>>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb at shellworld.net>; "John G. Heim"
>>>>>>> <jheim at wisc.edu>;
>>>>>>> <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:36 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> speaking personally?
>>>>>>> No government employee should be a member of the NfB. ethical
>>>>>>> conflict
>>>>>>> of interest personified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, I had been to a state NFBN convention that year and did the
>>>>>>>> PAC
>>>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>>> Then when the NFB did that, I called up the state treasurer for the
>>>>>>>> NFBN
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> cancelled my PAC plan.
>>>>>>>> I told them that they don't care if I can read my money, then they
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> need any from me.
>>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "Butch Bussen" <butchb at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>> Cc: "John G. Heim" <jheim at wisc.edu>; "K0LNY_Glenn"
>>>>>>>> <glenn at ervin.email>;
>>>>>>>> <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>>>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:18 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My personal favorite is the rejection of money that could be
>>>>>>>> identified
>>>>>>>> by touch. never mind that for honestly thousands of years the
>>>>>>>> practice
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> been common so those with limited education could still engage in
>>>>>>>> commerce.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, Butch Bussen wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I remember that. And what about their oposition to
>>>>>>>>> descriptive
>>>>>>>>> video,
>>>>>>>>> even filed a law sute to get the law thrown out, which it was at
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>> Butch
>>>>>>>>> WA0VJR
>>>>>>>>> Node 3148
>>>>>>>>> Wallace, ks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Holy cow! Are you aware that the NFB once asked Microsoft to
>>>>>>>>>> *NOT*
>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>> Narrator to the point where it would compete with Jaws? If you
>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> NFB is incapable of forcing choices on people, you are very sadly
>>>>>>>>>> mistaken.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/22 09:36, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> This sort of thing would never happen in Nebraska, or any state
>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> agency staff is of the NFB philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>>> Say what you want about the NFB, no organization is without its
>>>>>>>>>>> problems,
>>>>>>>>>>> but it is the core philosophy that formed the NFB that knows
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> society
>>>>>>>>>>> has low expectations of the Blind, and this is why the NFB
>>>>>>>>>>> believes
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> skills and high expectations.
>>>>>>>>>>> And with that, comes giving respect to the Blind, like the
>>>>>>>>>>> respect
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah I know about the information of recent about NFB abuse,
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> organizational issues, unrelated to the philosophy. In fact,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> it has come up demonstrates that the NFB is no different than
>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> organization in interpersonal staff issues.
>>>>>>>>>>> And choice does not mean training center choices.
>>>>>>>>>>> Choice isn't always an option, just like if you took a
>>>>>>>>>>> vocational
>>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> college, there are things you have to take, so to me, the lack
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> choice
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> this regard is different than computer software, where all the
>>>>>>>>>>> choices
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> reach the same end result.
>>>>>>>>>>> In states where the NFB philosophy is embraced, if a client
>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> use a Mac, or I want Window Eyes, then that is what they would
>>>>>>>>>>> get,
>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>> questions asked.
>>>>>>>>>>> They would not have to fight to get it.
>>>>>>>>>>> I simply cannot imagine a counselor saying that someone has to
>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> software that the counselor wants them to have.
>>>>>>>>>>> When I hear that stuff, I almost cannot believe it, but I know
>>>>>>>>>>> Butch
>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>> enough to know he wouldn't make that up.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Butch Bussen" <butchb at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>;
>>>>>>>>>>> <speakup at linux-speakup.org>;
>>>>>>>>>>> "Milan
>>>>>>>>>>> Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>; <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:18 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are right. In Nevada, freedom pushed jaws to the rehab
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> took them out for steak diners and so forth. I fought like
>>>>>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> them to buy window-eyes.
>>>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>>>> Butch
>>>>>>>>>>> WA0VJR
>>>>>>>>>>> Node 3148
>>>>>>>>>>> Wallace, ks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2022, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And where do these employers learn about jaws?
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, provide if you do not mind an example of how this
>>>>>>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly.
>>>>>>>>>>>> after all, unless I am incorrect, these employers are not
>>>>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>> users, meaning someone they trust continues to sell them on an
>>>>>>>>>>>> expensive
>>>>>>>>>>>> program instead of a largely free one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most employers don't want NVDA, and will only allow Jaws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Nebraska, if an employer said put on whatever works, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> counselors
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use NVDA, because of the cost of Jaws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If some of the clients in a call center already use Jaws,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA, the counselor will use Jaws, because the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clients
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn one of the two.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it's all choice, but in the workplace, it depends on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> employer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will allow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, sometimes scripts need to be made, and there are more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scripters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> available than there are NVDA add-on writers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this perception that Jaws is forced by rehab, from my 31
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business I can say is rubbish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, if a counselor did not know how to use NVDA, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chosen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rehab counselor is able to select the one that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> counselor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feels
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best for the student and for the counselor's teaching.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to part B moneys, which is used for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-vocational
>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchases,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where a lot of Jaws purchases come from, it is in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> agency's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to spend as little as possible, because that doesn't come
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like VR
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expenditures do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The challenge with that example is that, as one often gets
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rehab systems track record for facilitating employment for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clients
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is quite poor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With a high percentage of unemployment among our clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Making,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaking personally, your buying Jaws for personal use not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflecting how the system would respond to an alternative
>>>>>>>>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now if someone from organized rehab said, okay freedom
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scientific, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> creating an employment program where our clients will train
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> needing a solid screen reader solution for the system. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> give you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusive development contract for s millions to create the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fs would likely say where do we sign?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True enough, but largely, rehab people typically use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably at home, but they need to cater to the needs of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> client.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If a client used Linux, I doubt that any rehab counselor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advocate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the client switch to Windows, unless that was needed for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Nebraska, we purchased Jaws much more for personal use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work related situations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if FS made a JFL, and people were using Linux, rehab
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase a JFL product.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there was an interesting discussion a month or so back on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinux
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about how long it took completing tasks in the gui as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command line, the comments were quite informative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, fs has never marketed largely to the end user.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the American rehab community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much market research has the rehab community done to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for choices?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many rehab counselors support training in Linux?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one comment made by the subject of this thread about poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speech
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a fine one...out of the box Linux has few speech
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brings their needs to the table there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you want to get fs to care about Linux, you need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money for them there, from their main source of income.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well since Orca seems to work on so many distros, I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be able to do the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If Jaws users could switch into Linux, it would be a real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think with lots more Blind Linux users, we would start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessibility in Linux not being a second thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <speakup at linux-speakup.org>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <pdm at zamazal.org>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well technically freedom scientific does not exist any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer, being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by another company.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, I can respect why they, or nvda have not created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is because as I understand it, Linux is quite like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clay. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mold a distribution into almost anything. there are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personifications of the system, all sorts of ways and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for creativity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however adaptive tools are often extensions of physical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characteristics,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands, eyes, ears, brains, combinations of these.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To build solid assistive tools one must have a solid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were. that is part of why there have needed to be so few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inclusion, they created with, and then created in-house
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adaptive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for various populations that were built into the system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although Microsoft did not bother until much later, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consistency of windows is what makes it possible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gw micro or nvda to create something that can in theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Floor for the furniture is somewhat solid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to see Freedom Scientific make a Jaws For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JFL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd certainly pay the yearly rental fee for it, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would bring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users into Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FS could, with its resources, possibly make it more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> robust
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Milan Zamazal" <pdm at zamazal.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <speakup at linux-speakup.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <Blinux-list at redhat.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 12:08 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "KL" == Karen Lewellen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <klewellen at shellworld.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> What bothers me most are his lack of actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualifications,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> absolute dismissal of what he has not experienced..as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> defines Linux usage for everyone. That attitude is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> dangerous,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> because he is educating those outside of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> experiences, who will believe his ignorance is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> to be expert, it is his job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Karen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Lukas personally and I admire his skills and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualifications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also know first hand that he is open to constructive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe heâ?Td be happy to be corrected about possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccuracies in the interview. It may be also a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out whatâ?Ts possibly missing in making anybody
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> informed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for â?oabsolute dismissal of what he has not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiencedâ?�,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable free software alternatives to a less or more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Orca and a software synthesizer can you see for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who needs to use a fully working web browser, to read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, to be compatible with other computer users,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And letâ?Ts be realistic. We celebrate every single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve accessibility. This tells something about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matters. We cannot expect that a single person will fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of accessibility problems in all the environments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lukas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job focusing on certain areas currently seen there as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> urgent ones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate this opportunity. Anybody else seeing a need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other areas is welcome to contribute to whatever sees
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fit,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Milan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list at redhat.com
>> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Scam victim? Tell your story at www.scam911.org/surviving-the-scam
> Also check out brightstarsweb.com and mysitesbeenhacked.com
> Jackie McBride
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list at redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
More information about the Blinux-list
mailing list