[Container-tools] Atomic CLI + Atomicapp workflow

Daniel J Walsh dwalsh at redhat.com
Sat Nov 7 05:17:27 UTC 2015


I think we need to discuss this carefully before we make this decision. 
I also want other parties involved, including Daniel Riek and Subhendu.



On 11/06/2015 10:42 AM, Vaclav Pavlin wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:55 AM, Daniel J Walsh <dwalsh at redhat.com
> <mailto:dwalsh at redhat.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 11/05/2015 06:45 PM, Carl Trieloff wrote:
>     > On 11/05/2015 01:53 AM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
>     >> On 11/04/2015 01:38 PM, Dusty Mabe wrote:
>     >>> On 11/04/2015 06:25 AM, Lalatendu Mohanty wrote:
>     >>>> On 11/04/2015 07:15 AM, Dusty Mabe wrote:
>     >>>>> Hi all,
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> I've had conversations over the past few weeks with many of you
>     >>>>> about atomicapp and running it through Atomic CLI. Basically the
>     >>>>> problem is that the INSTALL/RUN/STOP labels are a bit
>     fragile and we
>     >>>>> have seen breakage a few times as a result. In the
>     discussions we
>     >>>>> have talked about better alternatives and I think this is
>     what we'd
>     >>>>> like to go with in the future:
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> 1 - the only case where atomic cli needs to work is for running
>     >>>>> `atomic run <appname>` any other piece of the puzzle WILL be
>     handled
>     >>>>> by the atomicapp cli (excludes openshift use case)
>     >>>>> 2 - people can use the atomicapp cli to do
>     >>>>> unpack/install/run/uninstall/etc... whatever the tool
>     supports they
>     >>>>> can do it
>     >>>>> 3 - people can use atomicapp cli from an installed rpm OR
>     from an
>     >>>>> alias that runs a docker container to run the cli
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> An example of the alias would be:
>     >>>>> alias atomicapp='docker run -it --rm  --privileged -v
>     >>>>> $(pwd):/atomicapp -v /run:/run -v /:/host --net=host --name
>     >>>>> atomicapp projectatomic/atomicapp:latest'
>     >>>>> OR in the future may be:
>     >>>>> alias atomicapp='atomic run projectatomic/atomicapp'
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> The idea is that you would use the alias just like if
>     atomicapp were
>     >>>>> installed on the system:
>     >>>>> atomicapp install dusty/helloapache
>     >>>>> cd /var/lib/atomicapp/dusty-helloapache-9cb2a3704f1d
>     >>>>> atomicapp run --provider docker ./
>     >>>>> curl localhost
>     >>>>> atomicapp stop ./
>     >>>>>
>     >>>> From a user point of view, just using atomic command wold be
>     >>>> relatively easy thing. As it is part of atomic hosts.  What
>     is the
>     >>>> possibility of improvement in atomic  command line labels in
>     future?
>     >>>> So if it improves in future, should we again consider using
>     it for
>     >>>> other labels.
>     >>>>
>     >>> Well the thing is that Atomic CLI assumes some things about the
>     >>> arguments you are passing it. For example 'atomic stop'
>     assumes you
>     >>> are passing it the name of a running container and tries to
>     detect if
>     >>> the container is running and gives an error if not. This doesn't
>     >>> really work for us and I anticipate stuff like this will crop
>     up in
>     >>> the future as Atomic CLI gets more features.
>     >>>
>     >>> _______________________________________________
>     >>> Container-tools mailing list
>     >>> Container-tools at redhat.com <mailto:Container-tools at redhat.com>
>     >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/container-tools
>     >> What does atomicapp expect to happen when  you do an atomic
>     stop?  You
>     >> want the STOP label to run even if there is no container?  You
>     don't
>     >> want to specify a container?
>
>
> Interesting..we already had this discussion here
> https://github.com/projectatomic/atomic/pull/54
>
> and it got solved here https://github.com/projectatomic/atomic/pull/56
>
> Did it break again? 
>
>     >>
>     >> My fear now is that we are breaking this up to where atomic and
>     >> atomicapp will compete against each other.  And users will need
>     to know
>     >> for this type of container I run atomicapp and for this other
>     type of
>     >> container I run atomic.
>     >>
>     >> We are loosing the original goal where the developer could
>     embed all of
>     >> the knowledge of how to run an application into the container
>     image.
>     >>
>     >> I think we should be talking more to product management about
>     this as
>     >> well as Daniel Riek.
>     >>
>     > Maybe a chat would be good.
>     >
>     > As you state our goal is still the same with all the meta-data
>     in the
>     > 'root' container nulecule or chained micro-service. however with
>     Atomic
>     > Cli doing stop on an instance we don't have that meta data, so
>     there are
>     > some issues/opportunities here that we need to think about.
>     >
>     > Carl.
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Container-tools mailing list
>     > Container-tools at redhat.com <mailto:Container-tools at redhat.com>
>     > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/container-tools
>     I am fine with that.  I will be back in the office next Wednesday
>     on...
>
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>
>
>
> My perception is that users are fine using new tools if they ease
> their life. From my POV we always struggled to with atomic'S
> restrictions for labels, missing ability to pass arguments etc. They
> got all fixed somehow over the time, but it's still hard to get our
> workflow in a such narrow frame.
>
> That's why I like Dusty's proposal - lets make atomic run some-app
> work seamlessly so that users that don't really care about the rest of
> the workflow can use it, but let's leave the rest of workflow on the
> atomicapp itself.
>
> That will let us add more features easily and make the workflow simple
> and digestible for users.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Vašek
> -- 
> Architect - Senior Software Engineer
> Developer Experience
> Brno, Czech Republic
> Phone: +420 739 666 824

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