Log from todays (20080213) EPEL SIG Meeting

[Stephen John Smoogen]

Reminder: Next meeting on 20080227 at 18:00 UTC in
#fedora-meeting

Summary will be part of this weeks report (as always)


**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 13 08:22:12 2008

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Feb 13 10:58:01 <smooge>	here
Feb 13 10:58:45 *	stahnma (n=stahnma at fedora/stahnma) has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 13 10:59:04 <knurd>	smooge, 1:59 early afaics ;)
Feb 13 10:59:15 <smooge>	better early than my usual
Feb 13 10:59:54 *	knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Sig meeting --
Meeting rules at
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines --
Init process
Feb 13 11:00:04 <knurd>	Hi everybody; who's around for the EPEL meeting?
Feb 13 11:00:07 *	knurd likes to remind everyone that the schedule for
todays meeting as well as a list of all open tasks can be found on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule
Feb 13 11:00:09 *	_blah_ (n=rob at rXm-581b.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) has
joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 13 11:00:13 <knurd>	ohh, that was 6 seconds early as well
Feb 13 11:00:22 <smooge>	Do you have that as a robot?
Feb 13 11:00:27 <stahnma>	w00t
Feb 13 11:00:42 <knurd>	smooge, look at the bottom on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule
Feb 13 11:00:58 <knurd>	smooge, cut'n'past is all I need ;)
Feb 13 11:01:07 <knurd>	paste
Feb 13 11:01:18 *	nirik is here now.
Feb 13 11:01:22 *	knurd counts _blah_ smooge stahnma nirik knurd
Feb 13 11:01:46 <knurd>	k, let's start
Feb 13 11:01:47 *	knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
fill the steering committee; one self-nomination: Xavier Lamien| all |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc
Feb 13 11:01:50 <smooge>	well you said it was 6 seconds early
Feb 13 11:02:00 <mmcgrath>	pong
Feb 13 11:02:12 <knurd>	smooge, yeah, I expected irssi would ask me
"do you really want to paste x lines" ;)
Feb 13 11:02:21 <knurd>	but it didn't do that
Feb 13 11:02:24 <smooge>	ah
Feb 13 11:02:28 <knurd>	anyway, let's start
Feb 13 11:02:40 <smooge>	hi mmcgrath
Feb 13 11:02:40 <knurd>	we have only one self-nomination for the open
seat (my seat)
Feb 13 11:02:52 <knurd>	Xavier Lamien aka SmootherFrOgZ
Feb 13 11:03:04 *	wolfy here
Feb 13 11:03:07 <smooge>	just to make sure.. he is the Xavier who is
working on RT3
Feb 13 11:03:44 <knurd>	smooge, no, that's Xavier Bachelot iirc
Feb 13 11:04:10 <knurd>	but Xavier Lamien helped with that by owning
some of the packages required for rt3
Feb 13 11:04:15 <knurd>	afaics
Feb 13 11:04:34 <_blah_>	xavier lamien owns a bunch of stuff that
needs to be built - xavier bachelot is herding the rt3 dep owners
Feb 13 11:04:44 <knurd>	are there other candidates that want to
self-nominate for the open seat?
Feb 13 11:05:35 <knurd>	if not I'd say "+1 for Xavier Lamien" --
should others want to become member of the steering committe we can
always make it bigger if we want to
Feb 13 11:05:42 <knurd>	other options?
Feb 13 11:06:03 <nirik>	+1 is ok with me... he has 24 packages in epel, FYI...
Feb 13 11:06:11 <nirik>	more folks involved is good.
Feb 13 11:06:29 <knurd>	he also helped with some thing on the epel list
Feb 13 11:06:34 <smooge>	Ok with me at the moment
Feb 13 11:07:12 *	_blah_ doesn't object
Feb 13 11:07:31 <knurd>	mmcgrath, Jeff_S, stahnma ?
Feb 13 11:07:31 <smooge>	ok how many 'committee' members are here
Feb 13 11:07:51 <mmcgrath>	knurd: I don't really know him that well so +0 for me
Feb 13 11:07:52 <stahnma>	+1
Feb 13 11:08:00 <knurd>	smooge, you, /me, nirik, mmcgrath, stahnma, Jeff_S
Feb 13 11:08:01 <stahnma>	the more the marrier
Feb 13 11:08:02 <mmcgrath>	but I have no objections to it.
Feb 13 11:09:00 <knurd>	that makes three +1, one +0 and one "Ok with
me at the moment"
Feb 13 11:09:06 <smooge>	ok put me as a +0 as I havent done my
homework. I have no objections but have not talked with him enough
Feb 13 11:09:25 *	schlobinux_
(n=xavierb at AGrenoble-257-1-65-168.w86-211.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined
#fedora-meeting
Feb 13 11:09:37 <knurd>	k, three +1, two +0,
Feb 13 11:09:38 <smooge>	if I need to spend some time with the
candidate and do so before the next meeting.. I will do so
Feb 13 11:09:38 <stahnma>	I am in the same boat
Feb 13 11:09:55 <stahnma>	I guess I say +0 officially, but in general
more involvement is welcome from me
Feb 13 11:10:20 <knurd>	k, two +1, three +0
Feb 13 11:10:37 *	bpepple|lt
(n=bpepple|@rrcs-70-62-4-24.central.biz.rr.com) has joined
#fedora-meeting
Feb 13 11:10:40 <knurd>	that's not enough then; so we give it another two weeks?
Feb 13 11:11:11 *	knurd will take silence as "yes" soon
Feb 13 11:11:17 <smooge>	yes
Feb 13 11:11:20 *	nirik nods. Yes.
Feb 13 11:11:20 <stahnma>	sure thing
Feb 13 11:11:24 <smooge>	sorry.. I have to shoo some people.
Feb 13 11:11:30 <knurd>	k
Feb 13 11:11:38 <smooge>	I will send an email asking for more info etc.
Feb 13 11:11:45 <knurd>	smooge, thx
Feb 13 11:11:47 *	knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
elect a new chair | all |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc
Feb 13 11:11:49 <smooge>	and apologize for not doing so in the past
Feb 13 11:11:56 <knurd>	k, similar topic
Feb 13 11:12:05 <knurd>	we have two nominations: nirik and smooge
Feb 13 11:12:09 <smooge>	I brought the jello for the wrestling
Feb 13 11:12:12 <knurd>	is that still correct
Feb 13 11:12:22 *	nirik is fine with smooge doing it. Saves me the time. ;)
Feb 13 11:12:23 <knurd>	or are there any other nominations?
Feb 13 11:12:39 <stahnma>	I am good with Smooge
Feb 13 11:12:45 *	smooge gets the pool ready for the chair wrestling...
Feb 13 11:12:56 <smooge>	its lime jello too
Feb 13 11:13:10 <nirik>	I will respectfully bow out and cast my vote
to smooge and avoid the wrestling. ;)
Feb 13 11:13:12 <smooge>	seriously though. I will try to make sure its
dealt with
Feb 13 11:13:26 <smooge>	properly. What is the length of your term
Feb 13 11:13:31 <knurd>	k, then +1 for smooge from me
Feb 13 11:13:31 *	nirik is pretty busy, so someone with more time and
interest is good for me.
Feb 13 11:13:56 <knurd>	nirik, stahnma, was that a +1 from you?
Feb 13 11:14:00 <knurd>	(just to be sure)
Feb 13 11:14:03 <nirik>	+1 here
Feb 13 11:14:05 <stahnma>	+1 for smooge
Feb 13 11:14:15 *	wolfy is allowed to vote?
Feb 13 11:14:17 <knurd>	mmcgrath, ?
Feb 13 11:14:43 <knurd>	wolfy, well, normally I counted votes from non
steering committee members
Feb 13 11:14:55 <knurd>	but for this sort of thing we likely need to
be more strict
Feb 13 11:15:06 <knurd>	smooge, I suppose you give yourself a +1 ?
Feb 13 11:15:09 <mmcgrath>	+1
Feb 13 11:15:19 <smooge>	yes. I do so.. if that is ok
Feb 13 11:15:24 <stahnma>	wolfy: feel free to state your case, if you disagree
Feb 13 11:15:30 <stahnma>	otherwise it seems we like smooge
Feb 13 11:15:37 <wolfy>	I like him too :)
Feb 13 11:15:40 <smooge>	I was going to vote for nirik because it just
seems bad form to vote for oneself
Feb 13 11:15:45 <knurd>	k, that makes 5 +1 from all those 5 steering
committee members that are around
Feb 13 11:15:49 <knurd>	it's official then
Feb 13 11:15:51 <smooge>	ok thanks
Feb 13 11:16:05 <knurd>	smooge, you are the new fearless EPEL Steering
Committee member
Feb 13 11:16:05 *	mmcgrath likes the smooge
Feb 13 11:16:20 <wolfy>	smooge: time for the beers you promised to
those who vote or you
Feb 13 11:16:33 <knurd>	smooge, do you want to have the meeting floor now?
Feb 13 11:16:40 *	smooge passes around the virtual beer... and gets
ready to take over the floor
Feb 13 11:16:58 <smooge>	a quick question.. where are the pre-written
script you use?
Feb 13 11:16:58 <nirik>	and I would like to take this chance to thank
knurd for his term... great work knurd. Hope you stick around and stay
in touch with everyone... ;)
Feb 13 11:17:18 *	Jeff_S here now...
Feb 13 11:17:28 <knurd>	smooge, the topics are at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule#head-f7f0d704b5f8796afe8455596d9c726f056c8c02
Feb 13 11:17:32 <smooge>	yes thankyou knurd .. I know it has been a lot of work
Feb 13 11:17:45 <knurd>	thx nirik, thx smooge; and yes, I#ll stick around
Feb 13 11:17:59 <knurd>	but I'd really like to get rid of the weekly reports
Feb 13 11:18:08 <knurd>	smooge, can you handle those?
Feb 13 11:18:08 <smooge>	thankyou.. I will need to know where you keep
the hidden stash of liquor
Feb 13 11:18:13 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
new meeting time? | all |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc
Feb 13 11:18:25 *	Jeff_S adds his late +1 for smooge FWIW
Feb 13 11:18:34 <smooge>	I will take over the weekly reports with some
explanation of how you do them
Feb 13 11:18:54 *	jsmith-lunch is now known as jsmith
Feb 13 11:19:05 <smooge>	wait I might have changed that too soon. But
if no objections I would like to ask what times work better for
people.
Feb 13 11:19:19 <knurd>	smooge, everything fine
Feb 13 11:19:46 <knurd>	smooge, I can send you the scripts I use to
generade the stats in the reports; they should be easy to understand
Feb 13 11:19:47 <Jeff_S>	perhaps we should re-visit the calendar idea
to figure out what works best for everyone?
Feb 13 11:19:52 *	nirik is pretty flexable.
Feb 13 11:19:55 <smooge>	thankyou knurd .
Feb 13 11:20:23 <smooge>	ok Jeff_S, what was the calendar idea? I
missed a lot of meetings due to class conflict
Feb 13 11:20:41 <knurd>	maybe you should wait for the vacant seat to
be filled before discussing this?
Feb 13 11:20:48 <Jeff_S>	smooge: somewhere on the wiki we created a
page listing days/times and allowed people to make notes for what
times worked for them
Feb 13 11:21:01 <Jeff_S>	knurd: yep, that might make sense
Feb 13 11:21:35 *	quaid apologizes for not saying he'd be unavailable
for this meeting
Feb 13 11:21:58 <quaid>	<= at JBoss World, listening to Bela Ban talk
about JBoss Cache :)
Feb 13 11:22:00 <smooge>	ok I think that it would be good for people
to update available times. I will send out an email on this and we
will work from there. We will bring it up for the next meeting
Feb 13 11:22:31 *	nirik nods
Feb 13 11:22:35 <smooge>	quaid I figured that might be the case from
your blog. thanks for the belated info.
Feb 13 11:23:22 <smooge>	Do we (fedora project) have a calender server
of some sort?
Feb 13 11:23:40 <nirik>	no.
Feb 13 11:23:52 <smooge>	ok will investigate for at least us then...
Feb 13 11:24:00 <nirik>	in the past there is a matrix thing table you
can add to a wiki page and have people fill in times/days
Feb 13 11:24:12 <mmcgrath>	we don't, there's been a request for it but
no proposed solutions.
Feb 13 11:24:26 <smooge>	ok time to look for some solutions to
experiment with then
Feb 13 11:24:46 <smooge>	is there anything other than that for people ?
Feb 13 11:25:08 <smooge>	my action item is to send out an email to get
people to update a matrix page I will need to find/create.
Feb 13 11:25:23 <smooge>	.. 30
Feb 13 11:25:36 <smooge>	.. 20
Feb 13 11:25:46 <smooge>	.. 10
Feb 13 11:25:48
<knurd>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingTimeMatrix
Feb 13 11:26:04 <smooge>	thanks..
Feb 13 11:26:05 <knurd>	that's the matrix the docs project used (just
FYI, smooge move on)
Feb 13 11:26:11 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
KojiAndBodhiForEpel | mmcgrath, Jeff_S |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/KojiAndBodhiForEpel
Feb 13 11:26:22 <smooge>	mmcgrath, Jeff_S the floor is yours
Feb 13 11:26:28 <knurd>	that's not Jeff_S
Feb 13 11:26:29 <_blah_>	i have made only minimal progress on this
Feb 13 11:26:32 <knurd>	that _blah_
Feb 13 11:26:36 <knurd>	that's
Feb 13 11:26:40 <Jeff_S>	:)
Feb 13 11:26:47 <smooge>	I cut and paste ;)
Feb 13 11:26:48 <_blah_>	i have added some db tables, but there is
still alot of work to be done
Feb 13 11:26:58 <knurd>	sorry for the confusion _blah_ Jeff_S
Feb 13 11:27:03 <Jeff_S>	knurd: np
Feb 13 11:27:06 <mmcgrath>	It looked very promising that I was going
to get an intern but the new group that I got moved into did not get
any interns (I used to work for Max)
Feb 13 11:27:07 <_blah_>	i am running up against work deadlines, so
this is on the back burner for me right now
Feb 13 11:27:16 <mmcgrath>	so now what will happen with that is very unknown.
Feb 13 11:27:36 <_blah_>	i still intend to get around to it, but if
someone wants to pick it up and get it done faster that is fine,
too...
Feb 13 11:28:02 <smooge>	ok I would like to put on the table the
following for long term discussion ingroup and outside of group.
Feb 13 11:28:11 <smooge>	We don't hide the RHEL binaries
Feb 13 11:28:18 <knurd>	mmcgrath, we could always ask stickster or the
Board for help
Feb 13 11:28:18 <smooge>	does that make it more workable
Feb 13 11:28:33 <nirik>	smooge: I don't think thats an option.
Feb 13 11:28:54 <mmcgrath>	knurd: we could but I don't know how much
pull they have towards getting an intern.
Feb 13 11:28:54 <nirik>	I don't think Red Hat wants us to provide free
copies of their binaries to the world.
Feb 13 11:29:05 <smooge>	the option is always open.. if we don't use
the RHEL binaries
Feb 13 11:29:14 <mmcgrath>	Its not hopeless that we won't get an
intern to help with this, but it is much less certain now then it used
to be.
Feb 13 11:29:28 <nirik>	right, thats another option... use CentOS
instead... but then we loose ppc.
Feb 13 11:29:37 <smooge>	I want to get stats on ppc
Feb 13 11:30:07 <knurd>	nirik, and peopel will yet that they can't
build for 5.2 before centos ships 5.2
Feb 13 11:30:23 *	nirik nods.
Feb 13 11:30:23 <knurd>	and we can only start to build for 6.0 when
centos ships 6.0
Feb 13 11:30:25 <smooge>	I would rather have a working build system
that is less work for infrastructure.. than the current
Feb 13 11:31:09 <nirik>	well, the big nice thing from moving on to
koji is that we can then move on to bodhi... much nicer for updates.
Feb 13 11:31:12 <smooge>	ok my reasons are the following: 1) we are
putting in a lot of work to hide stuff that puts this on the
backburner for ever
Feb 13 11:31:26 <smooge>	hyperbole on forever sorry
Feb 13 11:31:32 *	wolfy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Feb 13 11:31:49 <smooge>	and in some ways it goes against the 'Fedora' spirit'
Feb 13 11:31:58 <nirik>	smooge: agreed... it's still going to be a lot
of work if we move to centos.
Feb 13 11:32:02 <mmcgrath>	smooge: you want stats on ppc?
Feb 13 11:32:02 <mmcgrath>	http://smolts.org/static/stats/stats.html
Feb 13 11:32:16 <mmcgrath>	0.5% and 0.4%
Feb 13 11:32:21 <nirik>	perhaps we (royal) should put together a list
of options here and pros and cons and post to the list?
Feb 13 11:33:09 <nirik>	mmcgrath: thats fedora+epel? or ?
Feb 13 11:33:11 <Jeff_S>	I feel like the suggestion of using centos
got shot down pretty quick before... not clear on why or by who
Feb 13 11:33:11 <smooge>	nirik, I would like to do so. I know I opened
a can of worms that might have been buried in the past..
Feb 13 11:33:23 <smooge>	so I will take the heat for it
Feb 13 11:33:43 <nirik>	smooge: well, we should look at the costs...
there are pros and cons everywhere.
Feb 13 11:33:51 <mmcgrath>	nirik: thats all people that have sent in
their smolt profile (though admittedly is very skewed toards fedora
right now)
Feb 13 11:34:12 <smooge>	yes. I agree. I want to have a public listing
of those costs and figure out how we best managing them
Feb 13 11:34:18 *	nirik nods.
Feb 13 11:34:51 <nirik>	Jeff_S: agreed. Perhaps we can fire up the
discussion on the list again and see who that was and what their
objections were.
Feb 13 11:35:00 <Jeff_S>	works for me
Feb 13 11:36:12 <smooge>	ok another action item for me? 'buy asbestos
underwear for cost analysis of build systems'
Feb 13 11:36:38 <Jeff_S>	heh
Feb 13 11:36:41 <nirik>	smooge: ;) I'd be happy to provide you info on
that for a post... or I can try and do it myself...
Feb 13 11:37:26 <smooge>	either way. I know you are booked pretty
heavy.. so would it be better to feed the info after I dive in?
Feb 13 11:38:20 <nirik>	Don't matter. I can start a thread on the
mailing list and we can see where it goes?
Feb 13 11:38:25 <smooge>	ok thanks
Feb 13 11:38:52 <smooge>	I will get what info I can. We will put this
as taking the items from that discussion into our next meeting
Feb 13 11:39:29 <smooge>	and I will start diving into bodhi/koji for
building versus learning plauge
Feb 13 11:39:40 <smooge>	deep-learning plague that is
Feb 13 11:39:58 <smooge>	ok any other comments?
Feb 13 11:40:14 <smooge>	30
Feb 13 11:40:25 <smooge>	...
Feb 13 11:40:33 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
make broken dep reports work and send them to the list  | mmcgrath |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc
Feb 13 11:40:53 <smooge>	Ok this is also on my plate..
Feb 13 11:41:07 <smooge>	mmcgrath, sent out a script listing a while
back.. and I forgot about it
Feb 13 11:41:23 <nirik>	smooge: mschwent also has a script... he sent
info on it.
Feb 13 11:41:31 <smooge>	until I saw an email in my archive saying "I
will look this over Xmas break"
Feb 13 11:41:59 <smooge>	both of them are pretty resource intensive I
think. mmcgrath's took multiple hours to run ?
Feb 13 11:42:01 <nirik>	I was meaning to start running mschwents here
weekly or something.
Feb 13 11:42:15 <mmcgrath>	my script is still in the repo, its been
slow and un-reliable
Feb 13 11:42:29 <nirik>	yeah, they take a while, and might mess
up/encounter errors, so mschwent was saying running it automated is a
bad idea.
Feb 13 11:43:18 <nirik>	I can try and run them here 1x/week? do we
want testing included?
Feb 13 11:43:19 <smooge>	mmcgrath, after the meeting could you 'walk'
me through where those items are and how to access them
Feb 13 11:43:34 <mmcgrath>	k
Feb 13 11:43:57 <smooge>	nirik, I would say that testing would be a good fit.
Feb 13 11:44:24 <nirik>	ok, it should be pretty easy to setup from
what I was seeing...
Feb 13 11:44:26 <smooge>	BTW, do we have the 'resources' to have a 'rawhide'?
Feb 13 11:44:46 <nirik>	depends on what you mean by 'rawhide' ?
Feb 13 11:44:51 <mmcgrath>	and what would 'rawhide' build against?
Feb 13 11:45:35 <smooge>	hmmm sorry I think I just went outside the
scope of this meeting. I will talk about it offline.
Feb 13 11:45:44 <stahnma>	ok, I was lost
Feb 13 11:46:25 *	RohanRNS has quit ("Leaving")
Feb 13 11:46:42 <smooge>	a rawhide repo where we could try and build
as much of fedora (minus core EL packages) to see what breaks and what
doesnt. This would be a starting area for things to be 'forked' from.
Again outside scope of this meeting
Feb 13 11:46:56 <smooge>	forked as in specfile branch
Feb 13 11:47:01 <smooge>	wrong terminology
Feb 13 11:47:20 <mmcgrath>	ehhhh
Feb 13 11:47:26 <nirik>	I think the problem there would be finding
enough people who would care testing against it...
Feb 13 11:47:31 <mmcgrath>	-1 from me on that.  Kind of goes agains
the "epel branch"
Feb 13 11:47:37 <mmcgrath>	err "epel brand"
Feb 13 11:47:52 <stahnma>	it's very hard to even get people to
work/branch for official epel
Feb 13 11:48:09 <nirik>	anyhow... back on topic...
Feb 13 11:48:18 <smooge>	well anyway it is out of scope for this
meeting. I will muse about it in private later
Feb 13 11:48:30 <nirik>	Shall I try some test runs of the script here
and report back/spam the maintainers ?
Feb 13 11:48:46 <smooge>	+1
Feb 13 11:49:01 <Jeff_S>	sounds good
Feb 13 11:49:51 <smooge>	other votes?
Feb 13 11:50:00 <stahnma>	sure
Feb 13 11:50:01 <stahnma>	+1
Feb 13 11:50:21 <smooge>	ok next topic for the next 10 minutes
Feb 13 11:50:23 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
do we need a epel-announce-list (or both a epel-announce-list and a
epel-package-announce-list) | all |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc
Feb 13 11:50:25 *	nirik adds to his todo list.
Feb 13 11:50:57 <stahnma>	what would the use for the annouce list be?
Feb 13 11:51:17 <smooge>	updated and added packages. I think actually
an RSS feed would be 'more' what is wanted these days
Feb 13 11:51:21 <nirik>	well, it could be useful for things like the
recent duplicity thing.
Feb 13 11:51:32 <stahnma>	good point
Feb 13 11:51:33 *	jcollie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Feb 13 11:51:35 <stahnma>	++ on the RSS idea
Feb 13 11:51:39 <nirik>	but in general I dislike adding more lists.
Feb 13 11:52:04 <smooge>	me too.. but I was thinking that a list would
be useful for some people which fed into an RSS feed for the rest :)
Feb 13 11:52:11 <nirik>	do we have any way to just generate a rss feed
without a list or the like?
Feb 13 11:52:19 <smooge>	a blog
Feb 13 11:52:22 *	jcollie (n=jcollie at 161.210.6.204) has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 13 11:52:36 <stahnma>	smooge trumps us with his simplicity
Feb 13 11:52:36 *	smooge goes all Web2.1
Feb 13 11:52:45 <Jeff_S>	heh
Feb 13 11:52:55 <nirik>	yeah, but something thats semi-official
looking? or just a random blog somewhere?
Feb 13 11:52:55 *	knurd thinks people are used to list, thus stick with lists
Feb 13 11:53:11 <Jeff_S>	sorry, but I've got to run to my next meeting :(
Feb 13 11:53:12 <knurd>	even RH annouces their betas on a list
Feb 13 11:53:19 <smooge>	ok Jeff_S
Feb 13 11:53:31 <knurd>	doing things differently without need just
confuses people
Feb 13 11:53:37 <smooge>	ok I would go with the following: A blog
which feeds an RSS and a mailling list
Feb 13 11:53:50 <stahnma>	It could change all of Fedora in time.  Think big :)
Feb 13 11:54:01 <stahnma>	I personally would much rather RSS feeds
than mailing lists
Feb 13 11:54:02 <nirik>	where would this blog be? if you are going to
do a mailing list, just use that...
Feb 13 11:54:05 <stahnma>	for most things
Feb 13 11:54:15 <smooge>	The blog/RSS could be set up pretty quickly.
The list could happen when it happens
Feb 13 11:54:24 <Jeff_S>	btw, I may be able to host the blog if needed
Feb 13 11:54:38 <Jeff_S>	if we don't want it on fedora infrastructure
(not sure if that's an issue)
Feb 13 11:54:54 <nirik>	well, if it's not, it looks a good deal less
offical... IMHO
Feb 13 11:55:15 <smooge>	I think it needs to stay with the Fedora
infrastructure.. so we need to ask them about it.
Feb 13 11:55:40 <Jeff_S>	ok, /me leaves for real now
Feb 13 11:55:46 <Jeff_S>	:)  bye
Feb 13 11:55:47 <smooge>	whatever works well with the tools we have
(80% solution)
Feb 13 11:55:52 J5 jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jima jlaska jmn
jnettlet Josh_Borke JSchmitt jsmith juhp jwb
Feb 13 11:55:58 <smooge>	see you and thanks
Feb 13 11:56:05 <nirik>	well, ideally it would be something we could
send the package push emails to without a lot of fiddling.
Feb 13 11:56:43 <smooge>	the mailling list+RSS would be the easiest. I
am not sure how long a turn-around it is for email list creation these
days.
Feb 13 11:56:46 <smooge>	mmcgrath ?
Feb 13 11:57:20 <stahnma>	I would vote one or the other
Feb 13 11:57:31 <stahnma>	both it confusing to maintain/read/understand/use
Feb 13 11:57:44 <nirik>	well, mailing list is pretty standard.
Feb 13 11:58:35 <mmcgrath>	smooge: a week or so.
Feb 13 11:58:45 <mmcgrath>	submit a ticket at fedorahosted.org/ and
we'll get one created.
Feb 13 11:58:51 <smooge>	ok thats a good timeframe.
Feb 13 11:58:54 <smooge>	will do so
Feb 13 11:59:01 <smooge>	if thats ok with people
Feb 13 11:59:06 <smooge>	+1 mailling list
Feb 13 11:59:35 <smooge>	and before I go much longer.. is there a next
meeting here?
Feb 13 12:00:02 <nirik>	like I said, I don't like more lists, but I'm
ok with a announce list... only gets package updates emails and
important announcements for end users.
Feb 13 12:00:19 <nirik>	next meeting would be in 2 weeks... unless we
decide otherwise.
Feb 13 12:00:25 <knurd>	smooge, according to
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel : no
Feb 13 12:00:31 <smooge>	ok cool
Feb 13 12:01:16 <smooge>	All I want to go to the list is package
builds, new packages, security alerts and 'oh shit it breaks
everything' emails
Feb 13 12:01:38 <smooge>	package builds is probably not right..
Feb 13 12:01:54 <nirik>	we don't currently have any seperate listing
for security updates.
Feb 13 12:02:06 <smooge>	but things like "We are pushing these new
packages at 0400 UTC on Black Thursday" would be good
Feb 13 12:02:07 <nirik>	the one report lists new packages and new
updated packages.
Feb 13 12:02:22 <smooge>	nirik, ok I am thinking too much out of the box :)
Feb 13 12:02:23 *	fabian_a (n=fabian at 84-75-160-95.dclient.hispeed.ch)
has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 13 12:02:49 <nirik>	well, once we move to koji and have bodhi we
get security updates, an email per update, comments, karma on updates,
etc.
Feb 13 12:02:50 <smooge>	but in the case where we did have a security
push it would be nice :)
Feb 13 12:03:15 <nirik>	with the current scripts there is not a way to
say something is a security push or not. ;(
Feb 13 12:04:25 <nirik>	moving to bodhi is better than trying to
shoehorn better scripts into the old process, IMHO.
Feb 13 12:04:35 <stahnma>	agreed
Feb 13 12:04:37 <smooge>	thanks for the info.
Feb 13 12:04:42 <nirik>	so anything further today? Or should we call
it a meeting?
Feb 13 12:04:51 <smooge>	2 more things on the list
Feb 13 12:05:33 <smooge>	orphans, marketing, and mirrors
Feb 13 12:05:53 <smooge>	orphans probably should be dealt with now.
the other two are on list items that I want feedback on
Feb 13 12:06:06 <smooge>	topic EPEL SIG Meeting | orhans in EPEL?| all
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc
Feb 13 12:06:25 <smooge>	do we have an idea of how many orphans we
have currently?
Feb 13 12:06:47 <nirik>	well, orphans should really be avoided...
Feb 13 12:07:00 <nirik>	no idea... ;(
Feb 13 12:07:17 <smooge>	knurd?
Feb 13 12:07:35 <knurd>	mether brought it up in #epel
Feb 13 12:07:45 <knurd>	we have some orhans in EPEL
Feb 13 12:08:09 <knurd>	and according to the pkgdb some perl packages
are owned by JPO
Feb 13 12:08:18 <knurd>	who left Fedora some months ago
Feb 13 12:08:28 <knurd>	we need to decide what to do with those packages
Feb 13 12:08:41 <schlobinux_>	orphans are really against the EPEL
idea. Maybe a job for the EPEL task force ?
Feb 13 12:08:43 <nirik>	I see 27
Feb 13 12:08:45 *	JSchmitt has quit ("Konversation terminated!")
Feb 13 12:08:55 <nirik>	some of those may never have been built tho
Feb 13 12:08:55 <smooge>	ok I will start on my taking of packages as I have none
Feb 13 12:09:17 <stahnma>	smooge: I can help with orphans too
Feb 13 12:09:30 <stahnma>	espcially if they are perl, because we still
need more perl mods in :)
Feb 13 12:09:47 <smooge>	I am more of a 'packaging/admin-monkey' so I
am going to have to work with the developer on bugs
Feb 13 12:10:05 <knurd>	stahnma, btw, do you liked my perl report?
Feb 13 12:10:08 <stahnma>	I am similar ;)
Feb 13 12:10:09 <stahnma>	knurd: yes
Feb 13 12:10:10 <smooge>	but better than leaving things out
Feb 13 12:10:15 <smooge>	perl report?
Feb 13 12:10:18 <stahnma>	knurd: I was going to thakn you for it
Feb 13 12:10:20 <stahnma>	it was great
Feb 13 12:10:46 <nirik>	http://www.scrye.com/pastebin/2
Feb 13 12:11:50 <smooge>	thanks nim-nim
Feb 13 12:11:55 <smooge>	thanks nirik
Feb 13 12:11:56 <smooge>	duh
Feb 13 12:11:59 <stahnma>	should we have a call for orphans on list?
Feb 13 12:12:07 <smooge>	yes.. action item 4
Feb 13 12:12:18 <nirik>	scop orphaned many of those recently.
Feb 13 12:12:42 <stahnma>	I can certainly take a few, but I don't use
(m)any of those
Feb 13 12:13:42 <nirik>	oh wait... thats out of date...
Feb 13 12:13:45 *	nirik gets a new list
Feb 13 12:14:15 *	mether (n=ask at fedora/mether) has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 13 12:14:16 <nirik>	new list with perl ones: http://www.scrye.com/pastebin/3
Feb 13 12:15:21 <nirik>	unrar was never built. Shouldn't ever be.
Feb 13 12:15:34 <stahnma>	I can take any perl modules
Feb 13 12:15:44 <smooge>	I will try the otrs
Feb 13 12:15:56 <stahnma>	though I keep trying to move my teams to ruby >:(
Feb 13 12:16:13 <nirik>	why don't you guys take all the ones you want
and we can post the rest to the list?
Feb 13 12:16:14 <schlobinux_>	a lot of the orphaned perl modules have
been rebuilt lately for rt3
Feb 13 12:16:18 <smooge>	aget is dead upstream I think
Feb 13 12:16:36 <smooge>	ok
Feb 13 12:16:45 <nirik>	schlobinux_: I think they were old jpo owned
packages before...
Feb 13 12:16:53 <nirik>	whoever built them should take them on. ;)
Feb 13 12:17:30 <smooge>	I will walk through the branching and
'taking' list after meeting and work on that
Feb 13 12:17:37 <schlobinux_>	some were built by SmootherFrOgZ
Feb 13 12:18:11 *	nirik will need to get going soon... work piling up...
Feb 13 12:18:31 <smooge>	Ok post a list of orphans to the list and
work on a grabbing or killing by next test->prod cycle?
Feb 13 12:18:37 <schlobinux_>	smooge: I track who rebuilt what for
rt3, i can help sorting the list
Feb 13 12:18:41 <smooge>	thanks
Feb 13 12:18:48 *	stahnma needs to leave also
Feb 13 12:18:53 <stahnma>	will check list this evening
Feb 13 12:19:12 <smooge>	ok I will table the next items on the list
(marketing, mirrors)
Feb 13 12:19:29 <smooge>	Any need for 'free discussion' this meeting?
Feb 13 12:19:41 <smooge>	IE anyone need to bring up something?
Feb 13 12:19:53 <stahnma>	I wanted to say that I submitted a talk for
EPEL at the RH summit
Feb 13 12:19:57 <stahnma>	so did Quiad
Feb 13 12:20:03 <stahnma>	http://stahnma.fedorapeople.org/summit/
Feb 13 12:20:03 <quaid>	+1
Feb 13 12:20:06 <smooge>	Cool
Feb 13 12:20:16 <stahnma>	hopefully 1/both will be chosen
Feb 13 12:20:17 <quaid>	http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/summit
Feb 13 12:20:18 <nirik>	excellent.
Feb 13 12:20:22 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
Free discussion around EPEL
Feb 13 12:20:27 <smooge>	Thats great
Feb 13 12:21:10 <smooge>	Thanks to both of you (quaid and stahnma)
Feb 13 12:21:28 *	red_alert (n=ill at fedora/redalert) has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 13 12:22:08 <smooge>	Any other topics?
Feb 13 12:22:15 *	smooge will close the meeting in 1 minute
Feb 13 12:22:40 *	smooge will close the meeting in ~0.5 minute
Feb 13 12:22:54 *	stahnma (n=stahnma at fedora/stahnma) has left
#fedora-meeting ("Time for something else....")
Feb 13 12:23:17 *	smooge has changed the topic to: Channel is used by
various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note
that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora
please ask in #fedora | See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for
meeting schedule
Feb 13 12:23:21 <smooge>	meeting closed.
Feb 13 12:23:26 <knurd>	thx smooge


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"