Logs from this weeks (20080227) EPEL SIG Meeting

Stephen John Smoogen smooge at gmail.com
Sun Mar 2 15:53:07 UTC 2008

Feb 27 10:57:46 <smooge>	EPEL has the room in ~5 minutes. I was
wondering how much overlap time you needed
Feb 27 10:57:51 <jds2001>	the reservation is almost over :)
Feb 27 10:58:30 <jds2001>	smooge: none.  Let's take the rest of this
(if there is any) to #fedora-qa
Feb 27 10:58:37 *	jds2001 has changed the topic to:  Channel is used
by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings |
Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora
please ask in #fedora | See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for
meeting schedule
Feb 27 10:59:15 *	Josh_Borke
(n=jk275 at WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke) has joined
Feb 27 10:59:46 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL Sig meeting --
Meeting rules at
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines --
Init process
Feb 27 11:00:06 <mmcgrath>	pong
Feb 27 11:00:27 *	nirik is still here.
Feb 27 11:00:29 *	smooge likes to remind everyone that the schedule
for todays meeting as well as a list of all open tasks can be found on
Feb 27 11:01:06 <smooge>	ok there is my canned messages.. I need to
put down on my schedule to have this all done on Sunday nights.
Feb 27 11:01:28 *	knurd is partly here in case anyone wants something from him
Feb 27 11:01:38 <smooge>	There will be some transition problems this
week as I get used to everything
Feb 27 11:01:53 <smooge>	thanks knurd
Feb 27 11:02:32 *	knurd will prepare the next EPEL5 later
Feb 27 11:02:55 <smooge>	will assume the rest will show up or not. I
didnt advertise this and will expect lack of quorum
Feb 27 11:03:19 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
Status Reports
Feb 27 11:03:33 <smooge>	knurd, how did the EPEL-4 push go?
Feb 27 11:03:53 <knurd>	I didn#t hear anyone complaining
Feb 27 11:03:54 <smooge>	any lessons learned we need to know or just peachy?
Feb 27 11:03:56 <knurd>	so I assume it was okay
Feb 27 11:04:27 <smooge>	ok. cool. I will work with you on getting
that covered at least 2 deep by next month.
Feb 27 11:04:36 <smooge>	Any issues you see with the EL-5 push?
Feb 27 11:04:43 <knurd>	didn#t take a look yet
Feb 27 11:04:48 <knurd>	the big problem is still the old
Feb 27 11:04:54 <smooge>	old?
Feb 27 11:05:02 <knurd>	lots of broken deps; some of them are there for months
Feb 27 11:05:12 *	cdehaan
(n=Cody at urwireless-dhcp-128-151-25-111.wireless.rochester.edu) has
joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:05:20 <nirik>	(in testing)
Feb 27 11:05:31 <knurd>	yes, testing
Feb 27 11:05:51 *	Jeff_S here now
Feb 27 11:06:17 <knurd>	someone now and then afaics needs to go through the list
Feb 27 11:06:19 <smooge>	ok.. do we need to put them on a orphan
count-down? Or implement a integration channel where we put only
non-broken dep items in?
Feb 27 11:06:28 <knurd>	any poke maintainers or remove the packages
Feb 27 11:06:29 *	stahnma (n=stahnma at fedora/stahnma) has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:06:31 J5 jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jima jlaska jmbuser
jmn Josh_Borke JSchmitt juhp jwb
Feb 27 11:06:36 <smooge>	Hi Jeff_S hi stahnma
Feb 27 11:06:36 *	RohanRNS
(n=rohan at netblock-68-183-236-150.dslextreme.com) has joined
Feb 27 11:07:07 <stahnma>	word
Feb 27 11:07:37 <nirik>	I filed bugs a while back on all of them.
Feb 27 11:07:46 <nirik>	some got fixed, some not.
Feb 27 11:07:59 <knurd>	yeah, that helps a bit
Feb 27 11:08:12 <knurd>	but someone needs to do it every few weeks
Feb 27 11:08:21 <smooge>	ok. I guess this is where we need that script
running often to poke people
Feb 27 11:08:27 <knurd>	otherwise some problems afaics will never get fixed
Feb 27 11:08:33 <nirik>	current el5 hitlist: http://www.scrye.com/pastebin/15
Feb 27 11:08:37 <knurd>	yeah, the script would be a great help
Feb 27 11:08:45 <nirik>	I can run the script here.
Feb 27 11:08:59 *	nirik just ran the script here (without mailing maintainers)
Feb 27 11:09:02 *	mmcgrath can run the script on releng1 too
Feb 27 11:09:04 <knurd>	nirik, EPEL5 is a bit better then EPEL4 afaics
Feb 27 11:09:15 <smooge>	crap... koji-builder-1.2.3-1.el5.noarch
requires  createrepo >= 0:0.4.11
Feb 27 11:09:21 <nirik>	mmcgrath: that would be great if you can add
it to a cron there...
Feb 27 11:09:59 <mmcgrath>	nirik: where is the latest copy?
Feb 27 11:10:38 <nirik>	mmcgrath: let me find the link...
Feb 27 11:11:16 <mbonnet>	smooge: that should be available via RHN
Feb 27 11:11:45 <smooge>	mbonnet, older copy
Feb 27 11:12:00 <mbonnet>	smooge: what version?
Feb 27 11:12:06 <smooge>	0.4.4
Feb 27 11:12:09 <smooge>	is what RHN has
Feb 27 11:12:40 <nirik>	mmcgrath:
Feb 27 11:12:44 <mbonnet>	smooge: ahh, it was released as a "fastrack" package
Feb 27 11:13:11 <nirik>	here is el4: http://www.scrye.com/pastebin/16
Feb 27 11:14:18 <smooge>	mbonnet, does that mean a EL5.2 release or
just staying in fastrack?
Feb 27 11:15:44 <smooge>	back on topic sorry.. mmcgrath you can get
that script running on the releng? Or should I look at trying to set
up a non-fedora box on campus to do this?
Feb 27 11:15:55 <mmcgrath>	smooge: getting it installed now
Feb 27 11:16:10 <nirik>	the other alternative is to remove the broken
dep packages, and just run it before each push and refuse to push
anything with broken deps.
Feb 27 11:16:11 <smooge>	ok cool. thanks
Feb 27 11:16:16 <nirik>	thats more work on the push side tho...
Feb 27 11:16:29 <mbonnet>	smooge: it's available now, but in a child
channel: https://rhn.redhat.com/network/software/channels/packages.pxt?upper=58&lower=9&cid=6964
Feb 27 11:16:30 *	dwmw2_BOS is now known as dwmw2_gone
Feb 27 11:16:34 <knurd>	nirik, I think that creates more problems than it solves
Feb 27 11:16:57 <nirik>	it does make it more complex...
Feb 27 11:17:09 *	stickster_afk is now known as stickster
Feb 27 11:17:43 <nirik>	in any case we can see if nagmails help any
Feb 27 11:17:48 <nirik>	next topic?
Feb 27 11:17:54 <smooge>	nirik, the only way I could see this is yet
another channel. testing -> integration -> production
Feb 27 11:18:15 <nirik>	yeah, which makes it more complicated in another way. ;)
Feb 27 11:18:25 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
Status Reports | Bodhi/Koji update
Feb 27 11:18:56 <smooge>	I don't think there is any update on this..
but I wanted to keep it on our biweekly agenda.
Feb 27 11:19:51 <smooge>	with lots of help from nirik I got access as
a fedora person.. so I am going to be setting up a build server here
to see what would be needed to work with CentOS as an alternative to
using RHEL. That would keep the complexity of hiding binaries down..
but adds other problems
Feb 27 11:20:30 <smooge>	I can then have some results that we can say
what might be a better way to go with this in the future.
Feb 27 11:20:30 <nirik>	I don't think thats going to fly... I tried to
ask about that again as well, and heard that it was a non starter from
several people...
Feb 27 11:20:32 <nirik>	:(
Feb 27 11:20:32 <knurd>	I say the other problems here are much to big
when it comes to new releaes
Feb 27 11:20:36 <mmcgrath>	.tiny
Feb 27 11:20:37 <zodbot>	mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/yuakoz
Feb 27 11:20:46 <knurd>	that's why I was and still am strictly against
centos for out builders
Feb 27 11:20:57 <mmcgrath>	nirik: stahnma: ^^^  I've got it in that
repo if youre interested in maintaing it there, if not I'll just keep
it up to date.
Feb 27 11:21:14 <nirik>	knurd: just due to the delay after release of rhel ?
Feb 27 11:21:15 *	schlobinux_
(n=xavierb at AGrenoble-257-1-124-251.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined
Feb 27 11:21:35 <nirik>	mmcgrath: cool. Thanks. Can you add a cron?
Feb 27 11:21:39 <knurd>	that's the biggest problem, yes
Feb 27 11:21:44 <mmcgrath>	nirik: getting it into puppet, cron, etc now.
Feb 27 11:21:49 *	JSchmitt has quit ("Konversation terminated!")
Feb 27 11:22:01 <knurd>	nirik, as RHEL users might have broken deps
for a week or two until centos catches up
Feb 27 11:22:26 <knurd>	and new major releases would be a big problem
Feb 27 11:22:27 <nirik>	knurd: why? you talking on minor or new major?
Feb 27 11:22:27 <knurd>	and ppc
Feb 27 11:22:29 <smooge>	knurd, the delay and other issues need to be
balanced against the 'non-openess' and complexity that using RHEL
Feb 27 11:22:38 <smooge>	ooooh all 8 of them
Feb 27 11:22:42 <nirik>	ppc would be a problem...
Feb 27 11:22:54 <smooge>	sorry that was poor taste
Feb 27 11:22:57 <knurd>	nirik, minor
Feb 27 11:23:10 <knurd>	nirik, not sure how centos will handle centos6
Feb 27 11:23:12 <nirik>	minor releases are supposed to be binary
compatible right? no abi breakage?
Feb 27 11:23:29 <knurd>	if they are as late as they were with centos5
it would be a really big problem for EPEL
Feb 27 11:23:58 <nirik>	knurd: yeah. It's a lot of work...
Feb 27 11:24:04 <smooge>	knurd, the opposite issue is a problem also.
There are more CentOS people than RHEL systems and they will be
'broken' for a week or so because we rebuilt against new dependencies
they can't get.
Feb 27 11:24:27 <nirik>	in any case, mmcgrath: whats the chance of an
intern working on this? or GSOC person? with koji... ?
Feb 27 11:24:32 <knurd>	smooge, that can be delat with; just do cp -al 5 5.1
Feb 27 11:24:46 <knurd>	then everyone that can't or doesn#t want to
update can use 5.1
Feb 27 11:24:57 <smooge>	knurd, I have to say that the EL5 problems
were mostly getting the 'hidden' build variables down. But that is
with my CentOS QA hat on
Feb 27 11:25:44 <nirik>	note there is also a koji patch to use http
repos, which would allow epel to move to koiji, but it's a big hack
and the koji devs are not in favor of it.
Feb 27 11:26:14 <nirik>	in any case I don't think we will solve this
here and now...
Feb 27 11:26:37 <mbonnet>	nirik: http repos aren't the problem (those
are already supported), allowing (and enabling) untracked rpms in the
buildroot was the problem.
Feb 27 11:26:52 <smooge>	Anyway.. not a big issue. The main thing is
getting koji to work with EL without causing RH to loose its binaries.
We need to look at getting some dedicated eyes on it and look at what
alternatives are available.
Feb 27 11:26:57 <nirik>	yeah, sorry, I explained that wrong.
Feb 27 11:27:15 <nirik>	mbonnet: do you have any ideas for a 'good' solution?
Feb 27 11:27:46 <mbonnet>	nirik: yes, an alternate packages/
hierarchy, outside /mnt/koji
Feb 27 11:27:48 *	JSchmitt (n=s4504kr at fedora/JSchmitt) has joined
Feb 27 11:28:09 <mbonnet>	nirik: would need a little bit of data model
work and some code changes, but I don't think it's intractable
Feb 27 11:28:24 *	JSchmitt has quit (Client Quit)
Feb 27 11:28:53 <nirik>	mbonnet: can you add a note to the ticket with
the method you would be happy with? perhaps then someone can work on
it? or if you have time to, that would be extra lovely. ;)
Feb 27 11:29:07 <nirik>	for those playing along at home:
Feb 27 11:29:12 <mbonnet>	nirik: I'd love to work on it, but yeah, no time.
Feb 27 11:29:13 <knurd>	did we try to ask some of our RHEL friends (if
we have one) if they could make "koji for epel" a higer priority?
Feb 27 11:29:14 <smooge>	nim-nim, what is the ticket? Sorry I missed it
Feb 27 11:29:36 <knurd>	smooge, the ticket is on the schedule pages ;)
Feb 27 11:29:46 <knurd>	s/is/& linke/
Feb 27 11:29:48 <smooge>	sorry nim-nim wrong person
Feb 27 11:29:50 <knurd>	linked
Feb 27 11:30:06 <nirik>	knurd: I think the current idea is to get a
infrastructre intern on it... since no one else has time/knowledge.
Feb 27 11:30:11 <smooge>	I was thinking it was a bugzilla ticket
versus a infrastructure one
Feb 27 11:32:19 <smooge>	ok.. I put in a status report on Plague to
see if there were any outstanding issues with the current system or if
they are working ok.
Feb 27 11:32:47 <smooge>	mmcgrath, any issues that you know about?
Feb 27 11:33:00 <nirik>	hum? plague issues?
Feb 27 11:33:28 <mmcgrath>	aside from no official upstream that I know of.  no.
Feb 27 11:33:35 <smooge>	basically I want to make sure if there were
any issues with the build systems that they are noted. Even if it is
'nope they were fine'.
Feb 27 11:34:02 <smooge>	I am trying to use my 'ITIL' training to good
use somewhere.
Feb 27 11:34:10 <smooge>	ok thanks mmcgrath
Feb 27 11:34:12 <nirik>	no issues that I know of off hand...
Feb 27 11:34:16 <smooge>	thanks nim-nim
Feb 27 11:34:29 <smooge>	s/nim-nim/nirik. Need to type more
Feb 27 11:34:29 <mmcgrath>	ITIL, fun.
Feb 27 11:34:41 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
Ongoing Issues
Feb 27 11:35:05 <smooge>	Ok marketing. I put a call for ideas on logos
and such... not much items from people.
Feb 27 11:35:37 <smooge>	I will see how it pans out in another week,
call for an informal vote and through it over to the Fedora-Art group
to come up with some 'concrete' images.
Feb 27 11:36:52 <smooge>	Anyone want to come with anything? I know the
Trademarked Spaceship is a non-starter..
Feb 27 11:38:03 *	nirik is no good at those kind of things...
Feb 27 11:38:19 <smooge>	mmcgrath, yes my life at work for the next
year is implementing ITIL so I can make my IT into McDonalds.. you
want packets with that?
Feb 27 11:39:10 <smooge>	Yeah.. nirik my tastes are usually on the
'ludicrous/looney' so they usually look more left field than a 2000
Feb 27 11:39:33 *	stickster is now known as stickster_afk
Feb 27 11:39:34 <smooge>	ok no ideas from people.. I am going to look
at the tugboat with a bowler cap on.
Feb 27 11:39:47 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
Ongoing Issues | Mirrors
Feb 27 11:40:17 <smooge>	I will be putting out a request for mirros on
the infrastructure/mirror list this week. I will let people know how
it goes by next meeting. Not much there beyond that
Feb 27 11:40:35 <nirik>	sounds good.
Feb 27 11:41:12 <smooge>	I am also going to put on my campus request
of setting up a mirror here.. but as our budget was cut by 10%.. not
sure how that will go
Feb 27 11:41:18 <Jeff_S>	I have plans to become a mirror as soon as I
can get more disk space... =/
Feb 27 11:41:18 *	JSchmitt (n=s4504kr at p54B113A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:41:32 <smooge>	My laptop has more diskspace that our 'current' mirror
Feb 27 11:41:57 *	JSchmitt has quit (Client Quit)
Feb 27 11:42:10 <smooge>	Cool Jeff_S.
Feb 27 11:42:23 <Jeff_S>	smooge: what's your laptop's uptime like? :)
Feb 27 11:42:35 <smooge>	More than the 2450 that was our mirror
Feb 27 11:42:40 <Jeff_S>	heh
Feb 27 11:42:51 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
Ongoing Issues | EPEL Task Force / EL-6 rumours
Feb 27 11:43:09 *	jmbuser has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Feb 27 11:43:33 <smooge>	Ok I noticed in a couple of fedora-devel
emails that people are looking at some sort of EL-6 branch coming up
'soon' (before the next ice age).
Feb 27 11:43:35 *	jmbuser (n=jmbuser at has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:43:53 <smooge>	I figure this would be a good time that we
start on a task force to go with the EL-6 build and push system.
Feb 27 11:44:51 <nirik>	ok, for setting up for the EL-6 release?
Feb 27 11:44:56 *	cdehaan has quit ()
Feb 27 11:45:24 *	mpdehaan (n=mpdehaan at nat/redhat/x-975e033bdb472252)
has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:45:56 <smooge>	I think so... when the EL-6 beta comes out..
how can we best have a build system and some infrastructure to do a
playtest build of say whatever the Fedora it was branched from
Feb 27 11:46:03 *	cwickert (n=chris at p508FD8CD.dip.t-dialin.net) has
joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:46:11 <nirik>	I think it would be good to make a release
checklist on the wiki or whatever so we know what we need to do.
Feb 27 11:46:19 <smooge>	That way we could help maintainers be able to
say 'we can support this'
Feb 27 11:46:29 <smooge>	+1 nirik
Feb 27 11:47:02 <nirik>	yeah, I can start making a page... will need
input from mmcgrath and infrastructre I expect.
Feb 27 11:47:44 <smooge>	what would be on this checklist? how to fork
a package, how to test build it, how to recruite EL package monkeys?
Feb 27 11:48:04 <smooge>	I would like to tie this into Jeff_S
monkey-sphere matrix groups if possible
Feb 27 11:48:24 <Jeff_S>	hmmm?
Feb 27 11:48:42 <nirik>	well, do we mass branch from the existing EL-5
branched packages? I would say yes...
Feb 27 11:49:09 <nirik>	when branch is made, buildsys support for new
branch, new cvs tags for branch, new dist tag, new epel-release
Feb 27 11:50:19 <nirik>	we haven't been around for a new major release
yet... so we will need to setup procedure and also decide policy
Feb 27 11:50:25 *	giallu (n=giallu at 81-174-47-85.dynamic.ngi.it) has
joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:51:10 J5 jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jima jlaska jmbuser
jmn Josh_Borke juhp jwb
Feb 27 11:51:50 <mpdehaan>	auto-branching like Fedora versus requesting is smart
Feb 27 11:52:00 <smooge>	Jeff_S, you brought up a short time ago about
having various 'monkey' groups able to work across projects better so
that they had a stronger support structure.. Or I think that was what
you were talking about with package-monkeys, maintainer-monkeys, etc
Feb 27 11:52:25 <Jeff_S>	smooge: that may have been me, but I don't remember :)
Feb 27 11:52:28 J5 jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jima jlaska jmbuser
jmn Josh_Borke juhp jwb
Feb 27 11:52:42 <smooge>	Jeff_S, it was about a month ago on your blog
and some emails.. and an action item for you :)
Feb 27 11:53:01 <Jeff_S>	I don't have a blog ;)  Different Jeff?
Feb 27 11:53:16 <smooge>	Crap
Feb 27 11:53:18 <Jeff_S>	anyway, seems like a good idea
Feb 27 11:53:26 <smooge>	sorry I was thinking Spaleta
Feb 27 11:53:28 <Jeff_S>	and I do like monkeys
Feb 27 11:53:34 <nirik>	we may be also able to reuse some of the
fedora release checklists...
Feb 27 11:53:49 <mmcgrath>	nirik: almost done with the script.
Feb 27 11:54:00 <mmcgrath>	Expect an emailed run in a little bit, then
I'll stick it in cron.weekly
Feb 27 11:54:09 <smooge>	nirik, ok that would be good. are the
checklists in trac or wiki
Feb 27 11:54:43 <nirik>	smooge: not sure. mmcgrath? is there a release
checklist for fedora releases (from the Infrastructure side)
Feb 27 11:55:19 *	spoleeba (n=one at fedora/Jef) has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:55:28 <stahnma>	sorry, I got called away
Feb 27 11:55:34 *	JSchmitt (n=s4504kr at p54B113A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
has joined #fedora-meeting
Feb 27 11:55:44 <mmcgrath>	nirik: yeah we've got this thing ..
Feb 27 11:56:11 <smooge>	mmcgrath, thanks
Feb 27 11:56:22
<mmcgrath>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/SOP/Release
Feb 27 11:57:31 <smooge>	nirik, were you thinking of a build release
like for the betas/final?
Feb 27 11:57:36 *	stickster_afk is now known as stickster
Feb 27 11:58:11 <nirik>	well, not sure. I haven't given it much
thought... but I think we should start thinking about what we want to
do when el6 is released now, rather than when it's released. ;)
Feb 27 11:58:24 *	JSchmitt has quit (Client Quit)
Feb 27 11:58:26 <nirik>	How about I write something up and send to the
list and we can discuss there?
Feb 27 11:58:27 <smooge>	stahnma, not much missed. I am running this
meeting into the ground and learning what I need to improve for the
next one unless there is a mass revolt
Feb 27 11:58:35 <smooge>	ok that sounds good nirik
Feb 27 11:58:46 <stahnma>	I have a meeting
Feb 27 11:59:06 *	stickster is now known as stickster_afk
Feb 27 11:59:47 *	smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL SIG Meeting |
Open Discussion
Feb 27 12:00:13 *	nirik has nothing.
Feb 27 12:00:15 <smooge>	Ok now that I have gotten us to the end of
this debacle... is there any open discussion?
Feb 27 12:01:22 *	stickster_afk is now known as stickster
Feb 27 12:01:39 <Jeff_S>	looks like not..
Feb 27 12:02:32 <smooge>	ok then I will close the meeting in 30
Feb 27 12:03:14 <smooge>	closing
Feb 27 12:03:35 *	smooge has changed the topic to: Channel is used by
various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note
that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora
please ask in #fedora | See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for
meeting schedule

Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"

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