[fab] Re: openmotif

[Paul W. Frields]

On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 12:26 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 22:48 +0530, Rahul wrote:
> > Josh Boyer wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 12:53 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday 29 August 2006 12:41, Rahul wrote:
> > >>> Yes.
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2006-August/msg00081.htm
> > >>> l
> > >> This mail has absolutely no info regarding why a package would be acceptable 
> > >> for Extras when it isn't acceptable for Core.  This disturbs me greatly.  If 
> > >> the license isn't good enough for core, it shouldn't be in Extras either.
> > > 
> > > +1
> > > 
> > > Extras is not a dumping ground for packages that aren't suitable for
> > > Core.  If someone wants to push a package from Core -> Extras, it still
> > > goes through a review.  Openmotif will fail that review immediately,
> > > given that it's license is not OSI compatible.
> > > 
> > > josh
> > 
> > 
> > We *already* have many packages both in Fedora Core and Fedora Extras 
> > that dont meet the guidelines. If we are going to clean it up, we can do 
> > so in a better manner than just dumping out packages.
> > 
> Then openmotif needs to stay in Core until the packages that depend on
> it are ported to lesstif or decided that they can be thrown out.
> 
> > The only reason that I am suggesting we move these packages into Fedora 
> > Extras as a *intermediate* step and as a exception to the guidelines is 
> > that community contributors are interested 
> > (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2006-August/msg00078.html) 
> > in helping out and we cant do that easily by keeping them in Fedora 
> > Core.
> 
> There's nothing that community developers can do with openmotif to make
> it suitable for Fedora Extras.  You can propose sending the packages
> which have a dependency on openmotif to Extras where we can work on
> porting them to lesstif (or gtk2 :-)
> 
> >    The other option is to dump out openmotif and all its 
> > dependencies now since none of them in their current state meet the 
> > guidelines.
> 
> So:
> 1) openmotif stays in Core, packages which depend on it move to Extras
> Reviews.  Packages are ported to another toolkit so openmotif can get
> booted from Core and a time period is established for openmotif to be
> booted.
> 
> 2) openmotif is moved to Extras along with all the packages that depend
> on it.  Packages are ported to another toolkit so openmotif can get
> booted from Extras and a time period is established for openmotif to be
> booted.
> 
> 3) openmotif is dropped from Core and Extras.  Maybe it moves to a third
> party repository.  Packages which can work with lesstif remain in the
> same repository as lesstif, those that can't are dropped or picked up by
> a third part repository until they can run with one of the OSI/FSF
> approved toolkits.
> 
> I'd just like to +1 Josh Bowyer's sentiments here, Extras is not a
> dumping ground for packages that aren't suitable for Core.  Core can
> keep openmotif for now (#1) or we can drop it (#3) and suffer the
> consequences but I'm also against moving cruft into Extras just to clean
> up after a mess in Core.  I've been teaching my kids not to sweep the
> crumbs off the table onto the floor and this is the same kind of action.

+1.  To take the kids metaphor to new and more tortured heights, in my
house cleaning up after dinner is also not an optional activity, to be
put off until it is convenient.  #3 to me is the only reasonable option.
As others have said, Extras is not a dumping ground (nor a halfway
house, for that matter).

Frankly, I'm a little surprised, after our previous discussions on
whether we should pursue FSF endorsement in some fashion, that we would
wring our hands much about this.  We've agreed that openmotif is not
free.  Fedora only ships free software.  Rahul, you have said this to
many people, many times.  

We shouldn't ship non-free software just because it's inconvenient to
drop it -- given our motto of "once free, always free," and our
continued (and worthy) insistence that Fedora not put any sort of onus
on those who redistribute it, doing that would be the very pinnacle of
hypocrisy.  Might dropping openmotif and the affected packages cause
discomfort to some users?  Sure.  But what has been the cost of not
shipping any other non-free stuff?  A lot more aggregate pain, that's
for sure.

Throw the bums out!

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
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