From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Dec 4 22:58:21 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:58:21 +0000 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:40:31 -0500 > David Woodhouse wrote: > > > I don't believe it's realistic to make changes to the hosting and > > mirroring arrangements either -- let's stick with the plan of keeping > > them in the 'normal tree' which you called a last resort. > > > > We'll plan to have each spin ready on time, so it can go out fairly > > much synchronously with the i386 and x86_64 releases -- and more to > > the point, with precisely the same package set. If for some reason we > > slip, let's impose a rule that we may not ship any packages in the > > PPC spin which are not in rawhide (for the RCs) or f9-updates (for > > the release). > > > > OK? > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > proving that the method can work. I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. At the moment, the round-trip time between me generating a patch to something like kudzu and seeing it in a testable rawhide build is somewhat suboptimal. I don't mean to complain -- I know people are busy and have better things to do than commit my patches and kick off builds so that I can get on with testing rawhide. But people are going to be busy in the run-up to te releases too, when I most want my fixes to be getting into builds promptly. So it's probably best if I can be a little more self-sufficient in that respect, by having commit access to both upstream and package repositories and being able to do builds (at least for rawhide). Please. Actually, we've spoken often of "arch teams" having commit access to _all_ packages. Is that feasible? -- dwmw2 From jwboyer at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 00:17:48 2007 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:17:48 -0600 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Message-ID: <20071204181748.2f635d64@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:58:21 +0000 David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:40:31 -0500 > > David Woodhouse wrote: > > > > > I don't believe it's realistic to make changes to the hosting and > > > mirroring arrangements either -- let's stick with the plan of keeping > > > them in the 'normal tree' which you called a last resort. > > > > > > We'll plan to have each spin ready on time, so it can go out fairly > > > much synchronously with the i386 and x86_64 releases -- and more to > > > the point, with precisely the same package set. If for some reason we > > > slip, let's impose a rule that we may not ship any packages in the > > > PPC spin which are not in rawhide (for the RCs) or f9-updates (for > > > the release). > > > > > > OK? > > > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > > proving that the method can work. > > I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit > access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. > > At the moment, the round-trip time between me generating a patch to > something like kudzu and seeing it in a testable rawhide build is > somewhat suboptimal. > > I don't mean to complain -- I know people are busy and have better > things to do than commit my patches and kick off builds so that I can > get on with testing rawhide. But people are going to be busy in the > run-up to te releases too, when I most want my fixes to be getting into > builds promptly. > > So it's probably best if I can be a little more self-sufficient in that > respect, by having commit access to both upstream and package > repositories and being able to do builds (at least for rawhide). Please. > > Actually, we've spoken often of "arch teams" having commit access to > _all_ packages. Is that feasible? Perhaps with FAS2. I don't believe it is right now. Though considering I have commit access to everything already, adding you would cover the whole team! josh From katzj at redhat.com Wed Dec 5 03:29:38 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:29:38 -0500 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Message-ID: <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:58 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > > proving that the method can work. > > I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit > access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. I'm just going to come right out and say that if Fedora as a project starts dictating commit access to hosted "upstream" projects, that's a quick way to kill the use of Fedora for hosting upstream projects. Because that's not the way that commit access for projects should be given. Ever. > At the moment, the round-trip time between me generating a patch to > something like kudzu and seeing it in a testable rawhide build is > somewhat suboptimal. Getting rawhide builds at all right now is a bit of a challenge all its own with the openssl/openldap rev :) > I don't mean to complain -- I know people are busy and have better > things to do than commit my patches and kick off builds so that I can > get on with testing rawhide. But people are going to be busy in the > run-up to te releases too, when I most want my fixes to be getting into > builds promptly. Actually, run up to release is easier because it's "bug-fix mode" time rather than "integrate huge new chunks of code" time. Especially when some of the changes underway are directly related to the change that you're also wanting to do. And < a day of turnaround for the most recent one really isn't bad. Also, there is a member of what is ostensibly the ppc team (pnasrat) who does have commit access to most of the above. > So it's probably best if I can be a little more self-sufficient in that > respect, by having commit access to both upstream and package > repositories and being able to do builds (at least for rawhide). Please. > > Actually, we've spoken often of "arch teams" having commit access to > _all_ packages. Is that feasible? There's a very large difference between "committing to packages" and "committing to upstream". We don't have a great way of doing the "arch maintainers can commit to any package", but since we're not talking about huge numbers of arch teams, we could probably go with the quick answer (just adding people to cvsadmin) Jeremy From jwboyer at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 03:43:43 2007 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:43:43 -0600 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20071204214343.4753ef23@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:29:38 -0500 Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:58 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > > > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > > > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > > > proving that the method can work. > > > > I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit > > access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. > > I'm just going to come right out and say that if Fedora as a project > starts dictating commit access to hosted "upstream" projects, that's a > quick way to kill the use of Fedora for hosting upstream projects. > Because that's not the way that commit access for projects should be > given. Ever. So not to nit-pick, but nobody was dictating commit access. David simply said it would be smoother if he had it. And that aside, it is often quite common for upstream projects to have architecture "maintainers" for common code bases. I don't see how the "Fedora hostedness" of this plays into it at all. An upstream is an upstream no matter where it's hosted. > And < a day of turnaround for the most recent one really isn't bad. > Also, there is a member of what is ostensibly the ppc team (pnasrat) who > does have commit access to most of the above. Having Paul help out would work, sure. Whether he's willing to do that I have no idea. (Though it would be awesome if so.) josh From katzj at redhat.com Wed Dec 5 03:52:22 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:52:22 -0500 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <20071204214343.4753ef23@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20071204214343.4753ef23@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <1196826742.7206.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 21:43 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:29:38 -0500 Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:58 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > > > > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > > > > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > > > > proving that the method can work. > > > > > > I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit > > > access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. > > > > I'm just going to come right out and say that if Fedora as a project > > starts dictating commit access to hosted "upstream" projects, that's a > > quick way to kill the use of Fedora for hosting upstream projects. > > Because that's not the way that commit access for projects should be > > given. Ever. > > So not to nit-pick, but nobody was dictating commit access. David > simply said it would be smoother if he had it. It read a lot like "Fedora the project should dictate commit access to some of the hosted projects" > And that aside, it is often quite common for upstream projects to have > architecture "maintainers" for common code bases. I don't see how the > "Fedora hostedness" of this plays into it at all. An upstream is an > upstream no matter where it's hosted. It's more the matter that Fedora as a project should *not* be in the business of micro-managing the commit policies of those who choose to host with us. If, eg, glibc were hosted here, would you expect that glibc commit access would be given just because the Fedora Board says so? I wouldn't. Commit access to an upstream project is given based on the merit of patches sent and received by said source base. Jeremy From jwboyer at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 04:12:31 2007 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:12:31 -0600 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <1196826742.7206.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20071204214343.4753ef23@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <1196826742.7206.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20071204221231.10bcd240@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:52:22 -0500 Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 21:43 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:29:38 -0500 Jeremy Katz wrote: > > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:58 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > > > > > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > > > > > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > > > > > proving that the method can work. > > > > > > > > I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit > > > > access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. > > > > > > I'm just going to come right out and say that if Fedora as a project > > > starts dictating commit access to hosted "upstream" projects, that's a > > > quick way to kill the use of Fedora for hosting upstream projects. > > > Because that's not the way that commit access for projects should be > > > given. Ever. > > > > So not to nit-pick, but nobody was dictating commit access. David > > simply said it would be smoother if he had it. > > It read a lot like "Fedora the project should dictate commit access to > some of the hosted projects" Odd. I haven't seen that anywhere. > > And that aside, it is often quite common for upstream projects to have > > architecture "maintainers" for common code bases. I don't see how the > > "Fedora hostedness" of this plays into it at all. An upstream is an > > upstream no matter where it's hosted. > > It's more the matter that Fedora as a project should *not* be in the > business of micro-managing the commit policies of those who choose to > host with us. If, eg, glibc were hosted here, would you expect that > glibc commit access would be given just because the Fedora Board says > so? I wouldn't. Commit access to an upstream project is given based on > the merit of patches sent and received by said source base. Sure, of course. Perhaps the fact that it's being discussed on the FAB list gave you the impression that the Board was somehow being invoked, but I just attributed that as David continuing a thread. Not asking for the Board to dictate anything. At any rate, I think we're saying mostly the same things and our confusions are coming from different interpretations of David's remarks. Or maybe it's because it's late and I'm tired. Regardless, I'll be quiet. josh From dwmw2 at infradead.org Wed Dec 5 12:00:49 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:00:49 +0000 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1196856049.13978.466.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:29 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:58 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > > > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > > > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > > > proving that the method can work. > > > > I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit > > access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. > > I'm just going to come right out and say that if Fedora as a project > starts dictating commit access to hosted "upstream" projects, that's a > quick way to kill the use of Fedora for hosting upstream projects. > Because that's not the way that commit access for projects should be > given. Ever. Yes, that's very true. It would be very silly. Josh is right, however -- I wasn't asking the Board to mandate it. I was just continuing the thread because it started here. Sorry if I was unclear. > > At the moment, the round-trip time between me generating a patch to > > something like kudzu and seeing it in a testable rawhide build is > > somewhat suboptimal. > > Getting rawhide builds at all right now is a bit of a challenge all its > own with the openssl/openldap rev :) This is also true. > > I don't mean to complain -- I know people are busy and have better > > things to do than commit my patches and kick off builds so that I can > > get on with testing rawhide. But people are going to be busy in the > > run-up to te releases too, when I most want my fixes to be getting into > > builds promptly. > > Actually, run up to release is easier because it's "bug-fix mode" time > rather than "integrate huge new chunks of code" time. Especially when > some of the changes underway are directly related to the change that > you're also wanting to do. Perhaps so. Can I hold you to that? :) > And < a day of turnaround for the most recent one really isn't bad. That's true; thanks for that. I think it's the fastest I've ever managed to get such a patch applied -- it makes me wonder if I should have been submitting patches with a tempting 'FIXME' in them all along... :) Unfortunately, it still isn't in a built anaconda package -- and even if it was, that anaconda package would have been built against kudzu-1.2.80, which still lacks the changes I made last week. Again, I should point out that I don't mean to criticise. I'd just like to find a way to improve the situation without constantly having to badger people to commit stuff for me and build stuff for me. > Also, there is a member of what is ostensibly the ppc team (pnasrat) who > does have commit access to most of the above. If Paul is happy to be bothered and will respond in good time, that works for me. Paul, can you get a kudzu into rawhide with my latest changes please (which I think are all now in kudzu upstream cvs; thanks Bill)? > > So it's probably best if I can be a little more self-sufficient in that > > respect, by having commit access to both upstream and package > > repositories and being able to do builds (at least for rawhide). Please. > > > > Actually, we've spoken often of "arch teams" having commit access to > > _all_ packages. Is that feasible? > > There's a very large difference between "committing to packages" and > "committing to upstream". Yes, there is. From my point of view, I would settle just for committing to packages. I could add patches then -- after I submit them upstream of course. Since the packages I was thinking of tend to ship without _any_ patches, because we _are_ upstream for them and we tend to just ship a new tarball for each build, I'm not sure that's the best answer -- hence the request for upstream access too, for those packages. > We don't have a great way of doing the "arch > maintainers can commit to any package", but since we're not talking > about huge numbers of arch teams, we could probably go with the quick > answer (just adding people to cvsadmin) That would be great; yes please. (Although I don't feel wonderfully happy about accepting such rights for myself alone when I feel strongly that _all_ Fedora contributors should be able to commit to all packages. It's not as if we can't revert stuff, and can't promote an attitude of violence towards people who abuse the privilege, like we already have.) -- dwmw2 From dennis at ausil.us Wed Dec 5 16:35:08 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:35:08 -0600 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200712051035.13651.dennis@ausil.us> On Tuesday 04 December 2007, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:58 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 14:58 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > This seems a reasonable compromise all together. I can be happy with > > > this for Fedora 9. Hopefully by the time 9 is let loose, we'll have > > > had at least one other full fledged secondary arch up and running and > > > proving that the method can work. > > > > I suspect this is going to work a whole lot better if I have commit > > access to anaconda, kudzu, rhpl, booty, etc. > > I'm just going to come right out and say that if Fedora as a project > starts dictating commit access to hosted "upstream" projects, that's a > quick way to kill the use of Fedora for hosting upstream projects. > Because that's not the way that commit access for projects should be > given. Ever. we should not mandate access to upstream ever. that is up to the upstream to decide. regardless of where upstream is > > > > Actually, we've spoken often of "arch teams" having commit access to > > _all_ packages. Is that feasible? > > There's a very large difference between "committing to packages" and > "committing to upstream". We don't have a great way of doing the "arch > maintainers can commit to any package", but since we're not talking > about huge numbers of arch teams, we could probably go with the quick > answer (just adding people to cvsadmin) we have a fedora-sparc group to ensure that sparc team members have access to all of cvs we should setup fedora-ppc fedora-arm fedora-alpha fedora-ia64 and the rest when they come to the party. Dennis -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From notting at redhat.com Wed Dec 5 17:21:31 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:21:31 -0500 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <1196856049.13978.466.camel@pmac.infradead.org> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1196856049.13978.466.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Message-ID: <20071205172131.GA10961@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> David Woodhouse (dwmw2 at infradead.org) said: > > Also, there is a member of what is ostensibly the ppc team (pnasrat) who > > does have commit access to most of the above. > > If Paul is happy to be bothered and will respond in good time, that > works for me. Paul, can you get a kudzu into rawhide with my latest > changes please (which I think are all now in kudzu upstream cvs; thanks > Bill)? I can do a release - it's just that at the moment I'm working on making those changes obsolete. It's just taking longer than I thought. :/ Bill From dwmw2 at infradead.org Fri Dec 7 16:01:34 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:01:34 +0000 Subject: Dealing with PPC in Fedora 9(+) In-Reply-To: <20071205172131.GA10961@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20071109140625.4728aadd@redhat.com> <1194767147.2588.149.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112091420.09813094@redhat.com> <1194896431.2588.370.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <20071112145830.71a3535f@redhat.com> <1196809101.13978.402.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1196825378.7206.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1196856049.13978.466.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <20071205172131.GA10961@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197043294.13978.595.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 12:21 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > David Woodhouse (dwmw2 at infradead.org) said: > > > Also, there is a member of what is ostensibly the ppc team (pnasrat) who > > > does have commit access to most of the above. > > > > If Paul is happy to be bothered and will respond in good time, that > > works for me. Paul, can you get a kudzu into rawhide with my latest > > changes please (which I think are all now in kudzu upstream cvs; thanks > > Bill)? > > I can do a release - it's just that at the moment I'm working on making > those changes obsolete. It's just taking longer than I thought. :/ Thanks. There seems to have been a subsequent anaconda build too, which is useful. Now, if we could just have booty and rhpl built, and maybe even an rhpxl with bug #374201 fixed... then it'd just be standard rawhide breakage which gets in my way :) -- dwmw2 From mspevack at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 23:06:09 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:06:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: succession planning Message-ID: I posted this on my blog (http://spevack.livejournal.com/39464.html), but it was recommended to me that I post it to fedora-advisory-board as well. The Fedora Project Leader job has a natural lifecycle to it. I began my time in this role in February of 2006, about 1 month before Fedora Core 5 was released. Now we are about one month after Fedora 8's release, and the topic of succession planning is very much on my mind. After two years and four releases of Fedora, I would like to be able to do some other things related to Fedora and/or Red Hat while allowing someone else to assume the "Fedora Project Leader" responsibilities. The holidays will get in the way of this process a little bit, but in the coming months, it is our goal to identify who can be my successor as the Fedora Project Leader. The Fedora Project Leader is a full-time Red Hat position, and so we need to go through a full interview process, etc. None of this is being done ad-hoc or randomly. The Fedora Board is part of the process, as is Red Hat's CTO and other managers within the engineering organization and human resources. It is unusual, to say the least, for an announcement like this to even be made in public. Due to Fedora's belief in transparency, the other members of the Fedora Board and I believe that a statement like this one is the right thing to do, and I wanted to make sure that it was in my own words. For the moment, there is not much else to say, because it is going to take a while for all of this to be sorted out. There will be a transition period built in, and nothing is going to be done without plenty of advance notice and without the buy-in of both myself and the Fedora Board. I also want to make it absolutely clear that all of this is completely voluntary -- it is my idea, it is initiated by me, and I have brought the Fedora Board and other Red Hat VIPs into the discussion because a decision like this requires their input. It has been an honor and a pleasure to serve as the Fedora Project Leader. I am not going anywhere for a while, but I wanted to let the community know what is going on, and what to expect in the next few months. --Max From smooge at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 05:17:19 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:17:19 -0700 Subject: succession planning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80d7e4090712122117x4a982e06keb315c4db1412cf5@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 12, 2007 4:06 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > I posted this on my blog (http://spevack.livejournal.com/39464.html), > but it was recommended to me that I post it to fedora-advisory-board as > well. > > The Fedora Project Leader job has a natural lifecycle to it. > > I began my time in this role in February of 2006, about 1 month before > Fedora Core 5 was released. Now we are about one month after Fedora 8's > release, and the topic of succession planning is very much on my mind. > Thankyou very much for a couple of things: 1) Staying active on this side of the fence. There is a lot of social contact needed in both Red Hat and the virtual community... and it can be hard to stay active in one where you rarely see people face to face when you have meetings with people you can see and talk to every day. 2) Staying moderately burn-out free. This is a 24/7 job at a company that has been running non-stop 24/7 for 15 years.. and it burns out a lot of people. You seem to have stayed moderately burn free.. maybe crispy on the outside.. but not charcoal. 3) Being patient with people you can't see but only know via email. Email and IRC is a very brutal environment where we always say things that 10 minutes later we have forgotten or read later and say 'dear god I wrote that?' It also can lead to confusion and long term disagreements over phrasing that the writer thought was peaceful but ended up starting another Balkanization. 4) Knowing when to quit. This can be the hardest part of a job.. and it makes it really hard to do 1,2,3. There is always another fire, another project not making a deadline, another meeting with a VP who doesnt 'get it' according to someone else but just isnt communicating in geek-tongue, and all the other tiffs, firefights, angry kittens that come with releases, engineers, etc etc. Anyway thanks.. I will shut up now. > After two years and four releases of Fedora, I would like to be able to > do some other things related to Fedora and/or Red Hat while allowing > someone else to assume the "Fedora Project Leader" responsibilities. > > The holidays will get in the way of this process a little bit, but in > the coming months, it is our goal to identify who can be my successor as > the Fedora Project Leader. The Fedora Project Leader is a full-time Red > Hat position, and so we need to go through a full interview process, > etc. > > None of this is being done ad-hoc or randomly. The Fedora Board is part > of the process, as is Red Hat's CTO and other managers within the > engineering organization and human resources. > > It is unusual, to say the least, for an announcement like this to even > be made in public. Due to Fedora's belief in transparency, the other > members of the Fedora Board and I believe that a statement like this one > is the right thing to do, and I wanted to make sure that it was in my > own words. > > For the moment, there is not much else to say, because it is going to > take a while for all of this to be sorted out. There will be a > transition period built in, and nothing is going to be done without > plenty of advance notice and without the buy-in of both myself and the > Fedora Board. > > I also want to make it absolutely clear that all of this is completely > voluntary -- it is my idea, it is initiated by me, and I have brought > the Fedora Board and other Red Hat VIPs into the discussion because a > decision like this requires their input. > > It has been an honor and a pleasure to serve as the Fedora Project > Leader. I am not going anywhere for a while, but I wanted to let the > community know what is going on, and what to expect in the next few > months. > > --Max > > _______________________________________________ > fedora-advisory-board mailing list > fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board > -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From a.badger at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 15:44:02 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:44:02 -0800 Subject: succession planning In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090712122117x4a982e06keb315c4db1412cf5@mail.gmail.com> References: <80d7e4090712122117x4a982e06keb315c4db1412cf5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47615342.4040307@gmail.com> Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 4:06 PM, Max Spevack wrote: >> I posted this on my blog (http://spevack.livejournal.com/39464.html), >> but it was recommended to me that I post it to fedora-advisory-board as >> well. >> >> The Fedora Project Leader job has a natural lifecycle to it. >> >> I began my time in this role in February of 2006, about 1 month before >> Fedora Core 5 was released. Now we are about one month after Fedora 8's >> release, and the topic of succession planning is very much on my mind. >> > > Thankyou very much for a couple of things: > > 1) Staying active on this side of the fence. There is a lot of social > contact needed in both Red Hat and the virtual community... and it can > be hard to stay active in one where you rarely see people face to face > when you have meetings with people you can see and talk to every day. > > 2) Staying moderately burn-out free. This is a 24/7 job at a company > that has been running non-stop 24/7 for 15 years.. and it burns out a > lot of people. You seem to have stayed moderately burn free.. maybe > crispy on the outside.. but not charcoal. > > 3) Being patient with people you can't see but only know via email. > Email and IRC is a very brutal environment where we always say things > that 10 minutes later we have forgotten or read later and say 'dear > god I wrote that?' It also can lead to confusion and long term > disagreements over phrasing that the writer thought was peaceful but > ended up starting another Balkanization. > > 4) Knowing when to quit. This can be the hardest part of a job.. and > it makes it really hard to do 1,2,3. There is always another fire, > another project not making a deadline, another meeting with a VP who > doesnt 'get it' according to someone else but just isnt communicating > in geek-tongue, and all the other tiffs, firefights, angry kittens > that come with releases, engineers, etc etc. > I'd just like to add: 5) Acknowledging and learning from past mistakes. Especially in regards to how you've interacted with the wider Fedora Developer Community I've been impressed with how you've examined your mistakes, figured out what about them were good ideas and what came across wrong, and then turned the good ideas into a new action that successfully avoided the original pitfalls. Thanks! -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 18:42:00 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:42:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: fedora board election results Message-ID: I know it wasn't the most exciting election in the world, since we only had 1 elected seat open this time, but congrats to Matt Domsch, who was re-elected, followed closely by Mike McGrath, Tom Callaway, and Stephen Smoogen. Thanks to all who ran. We will work to get the election terms more balanced out, so that future elections will both put up 2 seats at a time, rather than 3 and 1. On the "appointed" side, we are pleased to announce that Bill Nottigham has renewed his seat for another term, and that Bob McWhirter, the JBoss community manager, has accepted a seat on the Fedora Board that previously belonged to Chris Blizzard. Given the work going on with open JDK and Iced Tea, we thought it would be interesting to put the JBoss community leader on the Fedora Board, and at least set the stage for some better collaboration in the coming year. I'll be updating the appropriate pages on the Fedora wiki shortly. Thanks, Max From monkeyboythom at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 18:20:56 2007 From: monkeyboythom at gmail.com (Monkey Boy) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:20:56 -0500 Subject: fedora board election results (Max Spevack) Message-ID: So the outcome means...this is a "blue" or "red" advisory board? > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:42:00 -0500 (EST) > From: Max Spevack > Subject: fedora board election results > To: fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > I know it wasn't the most exciting election in the world, since we only > had 1 elected seat open this time, but congrats to Matt Domsch, who was > re-elected, followed closely by Mike McGrath, Tom Callaway, and Stephen > Smoogen . -- The difference between blogging and flogging is that flogging actually leaves an impression on people. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Tue Dec 18 18:21:45 2007 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:21:45 -0500 Subject: fedora board election results (Max Spevack) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1198002105.31913.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 13:20 -0500, Monkey Boy wrote: > So the outcome means...this is a "blue" or "red" advisory board? Well, Matt is Dell, so he's Blue. ;) ~spot From smooge at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 18:44:18 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:44:18 -0700 Subject: fedora board election results (Max Spevack) In-Reply-To: <1198002105.31913.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198002105.31913.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <80d7e4090712181044l7789172al496b4a0b06adc3ac@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 18, 2007 11:21 AM, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 13:20 -0500, Monkey Boy wrote: > > So the outcome means...this is a "blue" or "red" advisory board? > > Well, Matt is Dell, so he's Blue. ;) > But not Big Blue... or Blue Mans Group -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 16:53:33 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:53:33 -0600 Subject: FUDCon and session filming Message-ID: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> I seem to remember some sessions last year being recorded and made available on the world wide interweb. Will we (more thinking Red Hat but anyone really) have any resources to make sure more sessions are recorded this year? Some of these sessions REALLY should be recorded: " Proposal and Demonstration of DNSSEC aware software" "Dr. Transifex : How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Translators" "Mass-Deploying Fedora with Cobbler" "Running Fedora from a USB key" Just to name a few. Soon we'll have a fairly solid distribution medium for this sort of media. -Mike From tibbs at math.uh.edu Thu Dec 20 21:16:19 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 20 Dec 2007 15:16:19 -0600 Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "MM" == Mike McGrath writes: MM> Will we (more thinking Red Hat but anyone really) have any MM> resources to make sure more sessions are recorded this year? Looks like I'll be bringing a camcorder and tripod if I can fit it in my luggage. The only problem is that it's a Canon HG-10 HD camcorder that records to disk, not tapes, and I have absolutely no idea how to get the video off of it under Linux. So, perhaps after the sessions we can have a camcorder hackfest. As far as I can tell, the thing records in some format called AVCHD and should be mountable via USB. I know zilch about video in general. - J< From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 21:37:07 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:37:07 -0900 Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910712201337h1d37a178n4e21e108ee1081ea@mail.gmail.com> On 20 Dec 2007 15:16:19 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Looks like I'll be bringing a camcorder and tripod if I can fit it in > my luggage. The only problem is that it's a Canon HG-10 HD camcorder > that records to disk, not tapes, and I have absolutely no idea how to > get the video off of it under Linux. So, perhaps after the sessions > we can have a camcorder hackfest. As far as I can tell, the thing > records in some format called AVCHD and should be mountable via USB. > I know zilch about video in general. Can you connect to a computer and pull dv down via firewire? -jef From tibbs at math.uh.edu Thu Dec 20 21:44:11 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 20 Dec 2007 15:44:11 -0600 Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: <604aa7910712201337h1d37a178n4e21e108ee1081ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> <604aa7910712201337h1d37a178n4e21e108ee1081ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "JS" == Jeff Spaleta writes: JS> Can you connect to a computer and pull dv down via firewire? It doesn't have firewire, for whatever reason. You just plug it in via USB and you see files on a 40GB hard drive. - J< From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 21:48:14 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:48:14 -0900 Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> <604aa7910712201337h1d37a178n4e21e108ee1081ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910712201348gd1dbfc7vfbfef08f58feb390@mail.gmail.com> On 20 Dec 2007 15:44:11 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "JS" == Jeff Spaleta writes: > > JS> Can you connect to a computer and pull dv down via firewire? > > It doesn't have firewire, for whatever reason. You just plug it in > via USB and you see files on a 40GB hard drive. you'd have to see if ffmpeg understandings the file format. If it does then you can then convert to theora for Fedora to make use of. -jef From jeff at ocjtech.us Thu Dec 20 22:03:35 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:03:35 -0600 Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> <604aa7910712201337h1d37a178n4e21e108ee1081ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <935ead450712201403y2381f016x97701af713a44a32@mail.gmail.com> On 20 Dec 2007 15:44:11 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "JS" == Jeff Spaleta writes: > > JS> Can you connect to a computer and pull dv down via firewire? > > It doesn't have firewire, for whatever reason. You just plug it in > via USB and you see files on a 40GB hard drive. Can you make a short test video and upload it somewhere? Then we can play with the file to see if we can get it decoded and converted to theora. Jeff From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 22:38:40 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:38:40 -0800 Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1198190320.3593.79.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 10:53 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > I seem to remember some sessions last year being recorded and made > available on the world wide interweb. Will we (more thinking Red Hat I'll ask. Surely, being in Raleigh, there must be something that can be done. Is there anyone with sick video skills whose hands we should loan a camera to? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Thu Dec 20 22:39:20 2007 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:39:20 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks Message-ID: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> This just came down after close of business today and it's public: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/071220/20071220005991.html?.v=1 Not sure what it'll mean for us but it's worth everyone knowing about it. -sv From vnk at mkc.co.nz Thu Dec 20 22:44:25 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:44:25 +1300 Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: <935ead450712201403y2381f016x97701af713a44a32@mail.gmail.com> References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> <604aa7910712201337h1d37a178n4e21e108ee1081ea@mail.gmail.com> <935ead450712201403y2381f016x97701af713a44a32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476AF049.1080301@mkc.co.nz> AVCHD seems to be H.264 implementation - ffmpeg should be able to do the trick. Vladimir Jeffrey Ollie wrote: > On 20 Dec 2007 15:44:11 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: >>>>>>> "JS" == Jeff Spaleta writes: >> JS> Can you connect to a computer and pull dv down via firewire? >> >> It doesn't have firewire, for whatever reason. You just plug it in >> via USB and you see files on a 40GB hard drive. > > Can you make a short test video and upload it somewhere? Then we can > play with the file to see if we can get it decoded and converted to > theora. > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > fedora-advisory-board mailing list > fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From gdk at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 22:45:02 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:45:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: FUDCon and session filming In-Reply-To: <1198190320.3593.79.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <476A9E0D.7050501@redhat.com> <1198190320.3593.79.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 10:53 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: >> I seem to remember some sessions last year being recorded and made >> available on the world wide interweb. Will we (more thinking Red Hat > > I'll ask. Surely, being in Raleigh, there must be something that can be > done. > > Is there anyone with sick video skills whose hands we should loan a > camera to? I'll be working this angle personally and very directly. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From blizzard at 0xdeadbeef.com Fri Dec 21 14:59:42 2007 From: blizzard at 0xdeadbeef.com (Christopher Blizzard) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:59:42 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> On Dec 20, 2007, at 5:39 PM, seth vidal wrote: > This just came down after close of business today and it's public: > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/071220/20071220005991.html?.v=1 > > Not sure what it'll mean for us but it's worth everyone knowing about > it. His Wikipedia page says that he has a BA in econ and cs. An interesting combination. Could be good for Red Hat. Time will tell, of course. --Chris From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 18:11:19 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:11:19 +0300 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> Two references: Here's an official statement from Matthew Szulik in Red Hat News: http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/12/20/a-message-from-matthew/ Here's an interesting article entitled "Can an airline exec run Red Hat? You'd be surprised", by Larry Dignan: http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=7437 Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From luis at tieguy.org Fri Dec 21 18:18:49 2007 From: luis at tieguy.org (Luis Villa) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:18:49 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 1:11 PM, John Babich wrote: > Two references: > > Here's an official statement from Matthew Szulik in Red Hat News: > http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/12/20/a-message-from-matthew/ > > Here's an interesting article entitled "Can an airline exec run Red > Hat? You'd be surprised", by Larry Dignan: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=7437 Heh. I'm amused at this little bit of misinformation: "Red Hat's EVP of Worldwide Sales is a relative of Mr. Szulik, for example. " In fact, the other Szulik is not a relative. It is odd that the only two Szuliks I've ever met work for each other and yet are not related, but there you are... Slightly more on-topic: "In my first meeting with Jim Whitehurst, we discussed the four Linux distributions that he was running on his home personal network. He was running Fedora Core 6 and Fedora Core 7 at home. He was running Slackware at home and he was an experienced software developer up until the time that he was at BCG (Boston Consulting Group). " This bodes well, I think- the only complaint I had with Matthew during my brief stint at the hat was that he sometimes seemed not to quite Get the engineers. Anyone who runs Slack at home will at least get the engineers, even if he does ignore them from time to time :) Luis From tcallawa at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 18:30:37 2007 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:30:37 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198261837.8792.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 13:18 -0500, Luis Villa wrote: > Heh. I'm amused at this little bit of misinformation: > "Red Hat's EVP of Worldwide Sales is a relative of Mr. Szulik, for > example. " That's not actually wrong, but its not who you think. The EVP of Worldwide Sales is Alex Pinchev, who is related to Matthew (by marriage). ~spot From luis at tieguy.org Fri Dec 21 18:35:45 2007 From: luis at tieguy.org (Luis Villa) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:35:45 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <1198261837.8792.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <1198261837.8792.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <2cb10c440712211035q4d75aa7cr64fdedaec996b00f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 1:30 PM, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 13:18 -0500, Luis Villa wrote: > > Heh. I'm amused at this little bit of misinformation: > > "Red Hat's EVP of Worldwide Sales is a relative of Mr. Szulik, for > > example. " > > That's not actually wrong, but its not who you think. > > The EVP of Worldwide Sales is Alex Pinchev, who is related to Matthew > (by marriage). Hah! I take it back then ;) Luis From mspevack at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 19:08:10 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:08:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Dec 2007, Luis Villa wrote: > This bodes well, I think- the only complaint I had with Matthew during > my brief stint at the hat was that he sometimes seemed not to quite > Get the engineers. Anyone who runs Slack at home will at least get the > engineers, even if he does ignore them from time to time :) Before I came to Red Hat, I was a die-hard Slackware user. So I thought it quite cool that our new CEO uses Fedora and Slackware. --Max From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 19:14:37 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:14:37 -0900 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910712211114m255870e2m3cf10093baf6cc4e@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 10:08 AM, Max Spevack wrote: > Before I came to Red Hat, I was a die-hard Slackware user. that explains a lot. -jef"adds Max to 'the list'"spaleta From smooge at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 19:17:35 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:17:35 -0700 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 12:08 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > On Fri, 21 Dec 2007, Luis Villa wrote: > > > This bodes well, I think- the only complaint I had with Matthew during > > my brief stint at the hat was that he sometimes seemed not to quite > > Get the engineers. Anyone who runs Slack at home will at least get the > > engineers, even if he does ignore them from time to time :) > > Before I came to Red Hat, I was a die-hard Slackware user. > And we have really really tried not to hold it against you. > So I thought it quite cool that our new CEO uses Fedora and Slackware. > Well if people had just kept updating SLS, we wouldnt have needed so many Linux distros... -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From sopwith at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 19:29:02 2007 From: sopwith at gmail.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:29:02 -0800 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> Message-ID: I have to wonder if someone took http://www.zyra.org.uk/os-air.htm too seriously... ;-) For real though, all the best to those inside Red Hat, Inc. -- Elliot On Dec 20, 2007 2:39 PM, seth vidal wrote: > This just came down after close of business today and it's public: > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/071220/20071220005991.html?.v=1 > > Not sure what it'll mean for us but it's worth everyone knowing about > it. From mspevack at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 19:46:19 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:46:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Dec 2007, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Dec 21, 2007 12:08 PM, Max Spevack wrote: >> >> Before I came to Red Hat, I was a die-hard Slackware user. > > And we have really really tried not to hold it against you. This brings to mind a story of an interview I had for a summer job when I was in college. At the time, I had only used Slackware. One of the questions I got was "How would you install a new package on a Red Hat system?" My answer: "I would use RPM." Question: "Sure, but what *exactly* would you type?" Answer: "I'd have to look at the man page. The Linux system that I use doesn't use RPM." Question: "Then you're not running Linux. Linux uses RPM." Answer: "I run Slackware. It's Linux, I assure you." I didn't get the job. But interestingly enough, when I interviewed at Red Hat and got the "what Linux distro do you use" question, everyone's response was "cool, I used to use Slackware too!" --Max From notting at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 19:52:52 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:52:52 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071221195252.GA20872@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Max Spevack (mspevack at redhat.com) said: > But interestingly enough, when I interviewed at Red Hat and got the "what > Linux distro do you use" question, everyone's response was "cool, I used to > use Slackware too!" "used to" being the operative word. :) Bill From smooge at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 20:05:48 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:05:48 -0700 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <20071221195252.GA20872@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> <20071221195252.GA20872@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090712211205w418fa4fu4cc4b618878bcb6b@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 12:52 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Max Spevack (mspevack at redhat.com) said: > > But interestingly enough, when I interviewed at Red Hat and got the "what > > Linux distro do you use" question, everyone's response was "cool, I used to > > use Slackware too!" > > "used to" being the operative word. :) > Well there was that one crazy Support guy who would use Slackware and RPM... -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From blizzard at 0xdeadbeef.com Sat Dec 22 16:19:57 2007 From: blizzard at 0xdeadbeef.com (Christopher Blizzard) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:19:57 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B932E8E-17E7-4A3A-A58A-069393E1769C@0xdeadbeef.com> On Dec 21, 2007, at 2:46 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > But interestingly enough, when I interviewed at Red Hat and got the > "what Linux distro do you use" question, everyone's response was > "cool, I used to use Slackware too!" "I used Slackware. Once. Then I tried to update it." --Chris From bugs.michael at gmx.net Sat Dec 22 17:00:09 2007 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:00:09 +0100 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <1B932E8E-17E7-4A3A-A58A-069393E1769C@0xdeadbeef.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> <1B932E8E-17E7-4A3A-A58A-069393E1769C@0xdeadbeef.com> Message-ID: <20071222180009.739c06a2.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:19:57 -0500, Christopher Blizzard wrote: > > On Dec 21, 2007, at 2:46 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > > > But interestingly enough, when I interviewed at Red Hat and got the > > "what Linux distro do you use" question, everyone's response was > > "cool, I used to use Slackware too!" > > "I used Slackware. Once. Then I tried to update it." Ah, lessons in history. Slackware on 30-40 3.5" floppy disks. Updating it -- one had to do it because of dependencies -- became more convenient with the help of RPM (back in time still called Red Hat Package Manager) and the most relevant tarball packages wrapped into binary rpms to fill the RPM database. From smooge at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 17:42:52 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <20071222180009.739c06a2.bugs.michael@gmx.net> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> <1B932E8E-17E7-4A3A-A58A-069393E1769C@0xdeadbeef.com> <20071222180009.739c06a2.bugs.michael@gmx.net> Message-ID: <80d7e4090712220942h235f8622qd63f2a4735fdbd40@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 22, 2007 10:00 AM, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:19:57 -0500, Christopher Blizzard wrote: > > > > > On Dec 21, 2007, at 2:46 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > > > > > But interestingly enough, when I interviewed at Red Hat and got the > > > "what Linux distro do you use" question, everyone's response was > > > "cool, I used to use Slackware too!" > > > > "I used Slackware. Once. Then I tried to update it." > > Ah, lessons in history. Slackware on 30-40 3.5" floppy disks. Updating it Heheh.. I remember one of the most common Red Hat Tech Support questions early questions is: How can I install Red Hat via floppies? All the cool Linux's use floppies! I think Erik T was tasked once on seeing how feasible it was for a potential paying customer... he probably still has nightmares about it. I wonder how many floppies it would take these days with delta-rpms etc to split packages over... > -- one had to do it because of dependencies -- became more convenient with > the help of RPM (back in time still called Red Hat Package Manager) and > the most relevant tarball packages wrapped into binary rpms to fill the > RPM database. > > > _______________________________________________ > fedora-advisory-board mailing list > fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board > -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From blizzard at 0xdeadbeef.com Sun Dec 23 21:39:50 2007 From: blizzard at 0xdeadbeef.com (Christopher Blizzard) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:39:50 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090712220942h235f8622qd63f2a4735fdbd40@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> <1B932E8E-17E7-4A3A-A58A-069393E1769C@0xdeadbeef.com> <20071222180009.739c06a2.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <80d7e4090712220942h235f8622qd63f2a4735fdbd40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9B2226A9-BF8A-4A2F-8BCE-A9E95E312B09@0xdeadbeef.com> On Dec 22, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > I wonder how many floppies it would take these days with delta-rpms > etc to split packages over... How has the delta rpms stuff been coming? I hoped that it would make it for some Fedora release. Huge win for users. --Chris From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 23 21:45:01 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:45:01 -0500 Subject: info for non-redhat folks In-Reply-To: <9B2226A9-BF8A-4A2F-8BCE-A9E95E312B09@0xdeadbeef.com> References: <1198190360.7993.29.camel@cutter> <84F6E2D5-DD10-44D4-9207-20E077A3DD84@0xdeadbeef.com> <9d2c731f0712211011o2e95556axebd6f8ec95d85eda@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440712211018p60e5186dv9d37964f8db7254c@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e4090712211117n7464bda3t12a50c8654291740@mail.gmail.com> <1B932E8E-17E7-4A3A-A58A-069393E1769C@0xdeadbeef.com> <20071222180009.739c06a2.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <80d7e4090712220942h235f8622qd63f2a4735fdbd40@mail.gmail.com> <9B2226A9-BF8A-4A2F-8BCE-A9E95E312B09@0xdeadbeef.com> Message-ID: <1198446301.14352.1.camel@kennedy> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 16:39 -0500, Christopher Blizzard wrote: > On Dec 22, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > > > I wonder how many floppies it would take these days with delta-rpms > > etc to split packages over... > > How has the delta rpms stuff been coming? I hoped that it would make > it for some Fedora release. Huge win for users. I think the plan is for that to come in for F9. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePresto Later, /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kanarip at kanarip.com Sun Dec 23 22:11:39 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:11:39 +0100 Subject: Fedora Unity announces Fedora 8 Re-Spin Message-ID: <476EDD1B.4070907@kanarip.com> The Fedora Unity Project is proud to announce the release of new ISO Re-Spins (DVD and CD Sets) of Fedora 8. These Re-Spin ISOs are based on the officially released Fedora 8 installation media and include all updates released as of December 18th, 2007. The ISO images are available for i386 and x86_64 architectures via jigdo starting Sunday, December 23rd, 2007. We have included CD Image sets for those in the Fedora community that do not have DVD drives or burners available. With this particular Re-Spin, we address the following problems experienced by many community members: - #372011, "depsolve hang in F7 to F8 upgrade" We have incorporated the updates image made by Jeremy Katz (comment #11 in the bug), and we have verified that a full Fedora 7 installation upgrades to Fedora 8 without issues. - #367731, "anaconda fails on Via VPSD motherboard" On i586 hardware, the installation media wouldn't boot and thus renders itself unusable. We have backported the fix for this issue from anaconda development to the Fedora 8 stock anaconda, as anaconda is not updated during a release. - #369611, "yum upgrade with selinux-policy-strict installed fails" A dependency problem in selinux-policy-strict during upgrades is resolved in an updated selinux-policy-strict package, which is included in the Re-Spin - #404601, "anaconda crashes on 'cdrom' line in kickstart" Updates to pykickstart incorporated in the rebuilt installer resolve this issue. These are some of the bugs brought to our attention, which you can do by sending a message to me directly, or other Fedora Unity team members in the #fedora-unity channel on IRC. Fedora Unity has taken up the Re-Spin task to provide the community with the chance to install Fedora with recent updates already included. These updates might otherwise comprise more than 1.33GiB of downloads for a full install. This is a community project, for and by the community. You can contribute to the community by joining our test process. A full list of bugs, packages and changelogs that have been updated in this Re-Spin can be reviewed on http://spins.fedoraunity.org/changelogs/20071218/ If you are interested in helping with the testing or mirroring efforts, please contact the Fedora Unity team. Contact information is available at http://fedoraunity.org/ or the #fedora-unity channel on the Freenode IRC Network (irc.freenode.net). Go to http://spins.fedoraunity.org/spins to get the bits! To report bugs in the Re-Spins please use http://bugs.fedoraunity.org/ Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip Fedora Unity Founder