From kwade at redhat.com Tue Sep 2 18:42:36 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:42:36 -0700 Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-08-30 at 22:36 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > If this becomes a real problem (or if it is already) we can just > create a > policy against this sort of thing and enforce it on a per complaint > basis. It sounds as if it has become a real problem. Can Infrastructure put together a policy it can enforce? Then please let this know for a round of sanity checking. :) BTW, I have two accounts (kwade, quaid), with "legitimate" reasons for having two that were not (previously?) covered by FAS capabilities. I think I see a clear path from here for consolidation, but it may not be for everyone. Folks will appreciate having some process and time to sort out the how and why. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Sep 2 20:19:35 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:19:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-30 at 22:36 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > If this becomes a real problem (or if it is already) we can just > > create a > > policy against this sort of thing and enforce it on a per complaint > > basis. > > It sounds as if it has become a real problem. Can Infrastructure put > together a policy it can enforce? Then please let this know for a round > of sanity checking. :) > > BTW, I have two accounts (kwade, quaid), with "legitimate" reasons for > having two that were not (previously?) covered by FAS capabilities. I > think I see a clear path from here for consolidation, but it may not be > for everyone. Folks will appreciate having some process and time to > sort out the how and why. > Hopefully someone who can write mo' betta can fix it but: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem#Account_Termination As far as I'm concerned, that goes in to place at the end of the week if no one has any problems with it. At that time the Infrastructure Team will start fielding complaints and we'll start contacting people and disabling accounts who are in violation. Questions comments? Speak up! -Mike From jwboyer at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 22:27:46 2008 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 18:27:46 -0400 Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20080902222746.GA20819@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 03:19:35PM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: >Hopefully someone who can write mo' betta can fix it but: > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem#Account_Termination > >As far as I'm concerned, that goes in to place at the end of the week if >no one has any problems with it. At that time the Infrastructure Team >will start fielding complaints and we'll start contacting people and >disabling accounts who are in violation. > >Questions comments? Speak up! I would phrase the last sentence as "Multiple accounts for an individual person needs FESCo approval." Of course, this will need to be detected and acted upon to really have any meaning at all. And while the policy is fine, there's really not much you can do about people using "anonymous" hotmail/yahoo/gmail/etc accounts. Really, this is just to keep the honest people honest. josh From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Sep 2 22:33:50 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 17:33:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: <20080902222746.GA20819@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080902222746.GA20819@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 03:19:35PM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > >Hopefully someone who can write mo' betta can fix it but: > > > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem#Account_Termination > > > >As far as I'm concerned, that goes in to place at the end of the week if > >no one has any problems with it. At that time the Infrastructure Team > >will start fielding complaints and we'll start contacting people and > >disabling accounts who are in violation. > > > >Questions comments? Speak up! > > I would phrase the last sentence as "Multiple accounts for an individual > person needs FESCo approval." > ehh. There's lots of reason for people to have multiple accounts that have nothing to do with FESCo or the operating system that the Fedora Project produces. > Of course, this will need to be detected and acted upon to really have any > meaning at all. And while the policy is fine, there's really not much you > can do about people using "anonymous" hotmail/yahoo/gmail/etc accounts. > > Really, this is just to keep the honest people honest. > Yeah we'll probably be going on a per complaint basis. Policing 12,183 accounts that are currently in fas is just not something we have the manpower to do. We have done some proactive things (like requiring different email addresses) but it only goes so far. Unfortunately for now our most effective solution is to be reactive. -Mike From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Sep 3 00:49:11 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:49:11 -0700 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2008-AUG-26 Message-ID: <48BDDF07.8070104@redhat.com> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-08-26 == Roll Call == * Attendees: John Poelstra, Paul Frields, Jesse Keating, Matt Domsch, Jef Spaleta, Bill Nottingham, Chris Tyler, Karsten Wade, Spot Callaway, Seth Vidal * Regrets: Harald Hoyer == Discussion About Incident Handling == * Could other groups have been brought into knowledge of the incident earlier? * Could the Fedora Board have been notified or kept in the loop better? ** Would probably require signed NDAs which most are not in favor of * Event was complicated by co-announcement made by Red Hat * Ongoing tension between Fedora being able to act independently and Red Hat being liable for Fedora's actions * Could Community Architecture Group be involved earlier to help facilitate communication? * Don't want to get into a situation where every Fedora decision or announcement has to be vetted through Red Hat executive levels * Create a predefined flow-chart or decision tree that explains steps that we will take in similar situations ** one potential flow through could be Red Hat Legal ** get advanced agreement from all parties involved ** include time limits where appropriate to speed up the response time and make the decision work flow more efficient. ** standardize types of messages that should be published and how often ** one path might be the necessity of shutting down the entire infrastructure--would need to enable the ability to efficiently do that if not already present ** Cross-link to established industry security standards ** one condition of agreeing to process flow is that actions could be initiated without requiring constant sign-off which is the intention behind advanced agreement * FESCo to discuss proposal from release engineering about updating package signing keys on Wednesday (2008-08-27) at 18:00 UTC: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/rel-eng/2008-August/001614.html ** board members should be aware of and attend as appropriate == Next Meetings == * No board meeting on September 2, 2008--follows holiday weekend and some people are away * Move IRC and Board Q&A meeting to September 9, 2008 * Next regular board meeting September 16, 2008 From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 16:26:14 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 08:26:14 -0800 Subject: Request for Trademark Approval (Fedora AOS Spin) In-Reply-To: <48B804F7.4000103@redhat.com> References: <48B6F169.7070809@redhat.com> <1219957127.6655.29.camel@luminos.localdomain> <604aa7910808281428m3ae1d5dxe110e81d5ed6c61a@mail.gmail.com> <1219962349.4752.1.camel@victoria> <1219962916.6655.38.camel@luminos.localdomain> <1219979883.4924.419.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1219982263.12096.172.camel@rosebud> <1219982560.6655.53.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48B7F845.6040409@kanarip.com> <48B804F7.4000103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910809030926j56e513a3x3659d46021dbdbc1@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Bryan Kearney wrote: > So.. back to the original request, and proposed follow up suggestion [1]. > Are folks comfortable with the follow up? It seems to provide the best of > both worlds for F10,and allows for some time to debate it since we have to > re-apply for F11. I personally have no problem with your suggestion..for now. I would suspect that if you re-proposed the kickstart with selinux included for trademark approval, that should satisfy the board members who have a problem with selinux being removed. And then if the Spin SIG can organize the kickstart pool to include a separate contrib space for kickstart files for kickstarts which use the generic logos in place of the fedora marks...you can get the other version of the kickstart into that contrib space. -jef From bkearney at redhat.com Wed Sep 3 18:39:19 2008 From: bkearney at redhat.com (Bryan Kearney) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:39:19 -0400 Subject: Request for Trademark Approval (Fedora AOS Spin) In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809030926j56e513a3x3659d46021dbdbc1@mail.gmail.com> References: <48B6F169.7070809@redhat.com> <1219957127.6655.29.camel@luminos.localdomain> <604aa7910808281428m3ae1d5dxe110e81d5ed6c61a@mail.gmail.com> <1219962349.4752.1.camel@victoria> <1219962916.6655.38.camel@luminos.localdomain> <1219979883.4924.419.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1219982263.12096.172.camel@rosebud> <1219982560.6655.53.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48B7F845.6040409@kanarip.com> <48B804F7.4000103@redhat.com> <604aa7910809030926j56e513a3x3659d46021dbdbc1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48BED9D7.5060101@redhat.com> Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Bryan Kearney wrote: >> So.. back to the original request, and proposed follow up suggestion [1]. >> Are folks comfortable with the follow up? It seems to provide the best of >> both worlds for F10,and allows for some time to debate it since we have to >> re-apply for F11. > > I personally have no problem with your suggestion..for now. I would > suspect that if you re-proposed the kickstart with selinux included > for trademark approval, that should satisfy the board members who have > a problem with selinux being removed. > > And then if the Spin SIG can organize the kickstart pool to include a > separate contrib space for kickstart files for kickstarts which use > the generic logos in place of the fedora marks...you can get the other > version of the kickstart into that contrib space. So, to be clear, this is an explicit "Fedora Requires SELinux enabled". Correct? -- bk From stickster at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 22:07:39 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:07:39 -0400 Subject: Request for Trademark Approval (Fedora AOS Spin) In-Reply-To: <48BED9D7.5060101@redhat.com> References: <48B6F169.7070809@redhat.com> <1219957127.6655.29.camel@luminos.localdomain> <604aa7910808281428m3ae1d5dxe110e81d5ed6c61a@mail.gmail.com> <1219962349.4752.1.camel@victoria> <1219962916.6655.38.camel@luminos.localdomain> <1219979883.4924.419.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1219982263.12096.172.camel@rosebud> <1219982560.6655.53.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48B7F845.6040409@kanarip.com> <48B804F7.4000103@redhat.com> <604aa7910809030926j56e513a3x3659d46021dbdbc1@mail.gmail.com> <48BED9D7.5060101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1220479659.8589.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 14:39 -0400, Bryan Kearney wrote: > Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Bryan Kearney wrote: > >> So.. back to the original request, and proposed follow up suggestion [1]. > >> Are folks comfortable with the follow up? It seems to provide the best of > >> both worlds for F10,and allows for some time to debate it since we have to > >> re-apply for F11. > > > > I personally have no problem with your suggestion..for now. I would > > suspect that if you re-proposed the kickstart with selinux included > > for trademark approval, that should satisfy the board members who have > > a problem with selinux being removed. > > > > And then if the Spin SIG can organize the kickstart pool to include a > > separate contrib space for kickstart files for kickstarts which use > > the generic logos in place of the fedora marks...you can get the other > > version of the kickstart into that contrib space. > > > So, to be clear, this is an explicit "Fedora Requires SELinux enabled". > Correct? Thus far in our TM approval processes, we've been considering (1) whether the spin is appropriate to fill a community need, (2) whether it has been judged technically on par by the Spins group, and (3) whether it uses only Fedora software. IIRC, in general the Board's intent has always been to require that official Fedora spins don't radically change the Fedora experience, but as Bryan and others have noted, that's quite a limiter overall. If there are explicit requirements for what we absolutely expect from a spin, I think Board members should be communicating them here clearly for discussion. The only thing we've heard so far is that a few Board members think SELinux is one of a list of requirements for TM approval. There's no telling thus far how long that list is for some people. If we want spins to be relevant, we should take into account sectors like appliance building, Sugar, and other yet-to-emerge applications if possible. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 21:24:20 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:24:20 +0000 Subject: Fedora Board IRC meeting 1800 UTC 2008-09-09 Message-ID: <1220563460.7673.118.camel@localhost.localdomain> ?The Board is holding its monthly public meeting on Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 1800 UTC on IRC Freenode. The public is invited to do the following: * Join #fedora-board-meeting to see the Board's conversation. This channel is read-only for non-Board members. * Join #fedora-board-public to discuss topics and post questions. This channel is read/write for everyone. The moderator will direct questions from the #fedora-board-public channel to the Board members at #fedora-board-meeting. This should limit confusion and ensure our logs are useful to everyone. ?The Board has set aside one meeting of each month as a public "town hall" style meeting. We are *still* hoping to hold an audio-based meeting at some point in the near future using some of the new resources being developed by the Infrastructure team. More news on this will be forthcoming. We look forward to seeing you at the meeting. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugs.michael at gmx.net Sat Sep 6 12:14:43 2008 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:14:43 +0200 Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:42:36 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-30 at 22:36 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > If this becomes a real problem (or if it is already) we can just > > create a > > policy against this sort of thing and enforce it on a per complaint > > basis. > > It sounds as if it has become a real problem. Can Infrastructure put > together a policy it can enforce? Then please let this know for a round > of sanity checking. :) I assume no one else has talked to the dcottle/auscity/acottle trio meanwhile? https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7560 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7595 ... From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sat Sep 6 15:59:26 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 10:59:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Sep 2008, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:42:36 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2008-08-30 at 22:36 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > > > If this becomes a real problem (or if it is already) we can just > > > create a > > > policy against this sort of thing and enforce it on a per complaint > > > basis. > > > > It sounds as if it has become a real problem. Can Infrastructure put > > together a policy it can enforce? Then please let this know for a round > > of sanity checking. :) > > I assume no one else has talked to the dcottle/auscity/acottle trio > meanwhile? > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7560 > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7595 > ... > Not yet but the policy is in affect now. Go ahead and create a ticket so we have an audit trail and I'll get in contact with this trio :) -Mike From bugs.michael at gmx.net Sat Sep 6 16:54:15 2008 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:54:15 +0200 Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080906185415.4f2b770f.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 10:59:26 -0500 (CDT), Mike McGrath wrote: > Not yet but the policy is in affect now. Go ahead and create a ticket so > we have an audit trail and I'll get in contact with this trio :) I have no idea where to create a ticket, so I filed this: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/815 From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Sun Sep 7 20:18:03 2008 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 23:18:03 +0300 Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080907201803.GA22000@victor> On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 02:14:43PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > I assume no one else has talked to the dcottle/auscity/acottle trio > meanwhile? > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7560 > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7595 trio = "me, myself and I"? ;) More than abusing accounts this trio is tainting the QA policies put in place and thus the over quality guaranty of Fedora. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bkearney at redhat.com Mon Sep 8 15:16:42 2008 From: bkearney at redhat.com (Bryan Kearney) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:16:42 -0400 Subject: Requesting Trademark Approval for AOS Spin Message-ID: <48C541DA.5020800@redhat.com> We would like to request trademark approval for an Appliance Operating Spin which would be part of the approved appliance tools feature [1]. The kickstart file can be seen in the current head [2]. Based on the feedback from earlier, SELinux is enabled but is in permissive mode. -- bk [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ApplianceTools [2] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-aos.ks From dominik at greysector.net Tue Sep 9 12:51:13 2008 From: dominik at greysector.net (Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 14:51:13 +0200 Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: <20080907201803.GA22000@victor> References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080907201803.GA22000@victor> Message-ID: <20080909125113.GC21125@mokona.greysector.net> On Sunday, 07 September 2008 at 22:18, Axel Thimm wrote: > On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 02:14:43PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > I assume no one else has talked to the dcottle/auscity/acottle trio > > meanwhile? > > > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7560 > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7595 > > trio = "me, myself and I"? ;) > > More than abusing accounts this trio is tainting the QA policies put > in place and thus the over quality guaranty of Fedora. And look who's among "Top Fedora testers": https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/metrics/?release=F9 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/metrics/?release=F8 Regards, R. -- Fedora http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Rathann Livna http://rpm.livna.org | MPlayer http://mplayerhq.hu "Faith manages." -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations" From bugs.michael at gmx.net Wed Sep 10 08:41:23 2008 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:41:23 +0200 Subject: One person - several FAS accounts? (was: bodhi abuse?) In-Reply-To: <20080909125113.GC21125@mokona.greysector.net> References: <20080830131505.9a8258ca.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830170124.ca4b360e.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080830184658.GA25578@victor.nirvana> <20080831005704.a9bd7815.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1220153357.15215.3.camel@rosebud> <1220380956.7309.20.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080906141443.68bebba0.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20080907201803.GA22000@victor> <20080909125113.GC21125@mokona.greysector.net> Message-ID: <20080910104123.ce7a3d2f.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 14:51:13 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > On Sunday, 07 September 2008 at 22:18, Axel Thimm wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 02:14:43PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > > I assume no one else has talked to the dcottle/auscity/acottle trio > > > meanwhile? > > > > > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7560 > > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-7595 > > > > trio = "me, myself and I"? ;) > > > > More than abusing accounts this trio is tainting the QA policies put > > in place and thus the over quality guaranty of Fedora. > > And look who's among "Top Fedora testers": > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/metrics/?release=F9 > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/metrics/?release=F8 Sure. Looking at the development in FI ticket #815 I've stirred up a hornets' nest. From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Sep 11 00:27:07 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:27:07 -0700 Subject: Fedora Board Meeting Recap 2008-09-09 Message-ID: <48C865DB.1010707@redhat.com> Recap and full IRC transcript found here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-09-09 Please make corrections and clarifications to the wiki page. == Roll Call == Attendees: Everyone on #fedora-board-meeting == Codecs (2008-05-13) == * Need to restart discussion on fedora-advisory-board redhat com to get plans in place at the start of F10 * Chris Aillon to make contact with Bastien Nocera to find out what current plans are * Waiting on bug 438225 to proceed ** this change will enable auto-provide for codec information ** For Fedora 10 removing Codeina and using the distribution's built-in mechanism to install packages (if 438225) is implemented ** For Fluendo to continue to provide codecs to Fedora they will need to provide them as packages in a yum repo ** This errs on the side of more "free-ish" software '''RESOLUTION''': # ACTION :: Paul - request feature page from developer # FESCo should track bug 438225 since this falls into their mandate * '''FOLLOWUP''' (2008-08-05): ** Feature page still in the works and FESCo is tracking bug 438225 * '''FOLLOWUP''' (2008-09-09): ** Paul Frields has pinged the RPM dev team again about that feature page, but having difficulty reaching them ** Panu has said that he will handle bug 438225 == Trademark Guidelines (2008-07-01) == * Board would like to help guide the process of expanding the use of the Fedora trademark * Helpful to brainstorm by thinking of Fedora trademark usage in four ways: # Things the board wants Fedora to be able to do with the trademark # Things the board wants the Fedora community to be able to freely do with trademark # Things the board wants other people to reasonably be expected to be able to do, but ask the Fedora Board first # Things that the board never wants people to use the Fedora trademark for * '''OWNER''': Paul Frields * '''ACTIONS''': *# circulate ideas and foster discussion on fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com list *# return feedback to the board for discussion on: 2008-08-05 *# Latest updates: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/NewTrademarkGuidelines (see also discussion tab) *'''FOLLOW-UP''' (2008-08-05): ** Board definitely wants a Fedora trademark of some sorts for spins and other uses--derivative works ** Still unsure on how best to proceed on issues related to: **# official spins **# unofficial spins **# branded USB keys **# OEM pre-loads **# Fedora business cards **# Fedora apparel and conference materials (see section on Non-software goods) ** Everyone should add uncovered use cases to wiki page (see above) ASAP ** Paul Frields will be working with Red Hat Legal starting this week to move the process forward *'''FOLLOW-UP''' (2008-09-09): ** RH Legal is reviewing them and the newest state of that page incorporates their most recent review ** would really like to have that wrapped up by the end of the month if at all possible. ** Related discussion about SELinux being required for spins *** This should not block or impact trademark work *** Will add a section to trademark guidelines to encompass issues like SELinux under using the wording "pursuant to other technical requirements" ** ACTIONS: **# Continue discussion about SELinux on fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com list **# Release Engineering and Spins SIG should draw up minimum technical requirements to use the Fedora name == Board Questions & Answers == * Topics covered included: ** Infrastructure intrusion ** Creating a response plan ** SELinux, custom Spins, and trademark usage ** Infrastructure secured * See transcript (below) for details == IRC Transcript == From steve at nexusuk.org Mon Sep 15 13:40:46 2008 From: steve at nexusuk.org (Steve Hill) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:40:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Software EULAs Message-ID: There is a discussion currently going on in the fedora-list[1] as well as Ubuntu's Launchpad[2] about the introduction of an EULA in FireFox 3[3]. There is also a bug filed in Mozilla's bugzilla on the subject[4]. An EULA does, of course, contravene freedom 0 of the FSF's four freedoms (namely, the ability to use the software for any purpose without restriction), which brings the freeness of FireFox into question. As a distribution founded on the principles of Free software, what is the Fedora Project's policy on the subject? There is talk of Ubuntu dropping FireFox in favour of IceWeasel (which would have the same feature set as FireFox but without the EULA) - are there plans for Fedora to follow suit and treat FireFox in the same way as other non-Free software, such as non-Free drivers, etc.? Whilst the signal to noise ratio on that Launchpad ticket is quite poor, there are some fairly good points raised and it is worth a read. [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-September/msg01755.html [2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/firefox/+bug/269656 [3] http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/legal/eula/firefox3-en.html [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439604 - Steve xmpp:steve at nexusuk.org sip:steve at nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence From tcallawa at redhat.com Mon Sep 15 13:44:18 2008 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:44:18 -0400 Subject: Software EULAs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1221486258.7248.103.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 14:40 +0100, Steve Hill wrote: > There is a discussion currently going on in the fedora-list[1] as well as > Ubuntu's Launchpad[2] about the introduction of an EULA in FireFox 3[3]. > There is also a bug filed in Mozilla's bugzilla on the subject[4]. > > An EULA does, of course, contravene freedom 0 of the FSF's four freedoms > (namely, the ability to use the software for any purpose without > restriction), which brings the freeness of FireFox into question. > > As a distribution founded on the principles of Free software, what is > the Fedora Project's policy on the subject? I need to find out what I can say publicly on this subject. Please hold. :) ~spot From tiemann at redhat.com Mon Sep 15 13:45:59 2008 From: tiemann at redhat.com (Michael Tiemann) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:45:59 -0400 Subject: Software EULAs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48CE6717.8070506@redhat.com> Steve Hill wrote: > > There is a discussion currently going on in the fedora-list[1] as well > as Ubuntu's Launchpad[2] about the introduction of an EULA in FireFox > 3[3]. There is also a bug filed in Mozilla's bugzilla on the subject[4]. > > An EULA does, of course, contravene freedom 0 of the FSF's four > freedoms (namely, the ability to use the software for any purpose > without restriction), which brings the freeness of FireFox into question. > > As a distribution founded on the principles of Free software, what is > the Fedora Project's policy on the subject? There is talk of Ubuntu > dropping FireFox in favour of IceWeasel (which would have the same > feature set as FireFox but without the EULA) - are there plans for > Fedora to follow suit and treat FireFox in the same way as other > non-Free software, such as non-Free drivers, etc.? > > Whilst the signal to noise ratio on that Launchpad ticket is quite > poor, there are some fairly good points raised and it is worth a read. We are also discussing at the OSI board level, FWIW. M > > > [1] > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-September/msg01755.html > [2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/firefox/+bug/269656 > [3] http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/legal/eula/firefox3-en.html > [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439604 > > > - Steve > xmpp:steve at nexusuk.org sip:steve at nexusuk.org > http://www.nexusuk.org/ > > Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence > > _______________________________________________ > fedora-advisory-board mailing list > fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board -- GPG Key: F0AD 3368 D24A 56CD A2AD 6A12 CAB3 2E89 EA0A C0E4 The structure of world peace cannot be the work of one man, or one party, or one nation...it must be a peace which rests on the cooperative effort of the whole world. -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt Part of the tragedy is of the artist is that there is no real goal in achieving what you are naturally good at. The real satisfaction lies in the things you accomplish by practice and effort. -- Joris van den Berg, commenting on the death of H. Cartier Bresson Dream so big you can share -- me From steve at nexusuk.org Mon Sep 15 13:53:03 2008 From: steve at nexusuk.org (Steve Hill) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:53:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: Software EULAs In-Reply-To: <1221486258.7248.103.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1221486258.7248.103.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > I need to find out what I can say publicly on this subject. Please > hold. :) No problem guys :) It's good to know that this sort of thing is being actively thought about on the board too. I realise there are rarely easy answers to this sort of thing. - Steve xmpp:steve at nexusuk.org sip:steve at nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence From frankly3d at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 16:35:26 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:35:26 +0100 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? Message-ID: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> Going back to school on Tuesday. Will have to create a website as part of it, using whatever app is specified. Rather than creating a fictitious site, was thinking of putting together a fedora-Ireland site. Which after the schooling could be used, a basis for Ireland\Fedora users. Looking for some feedback on the idea (1), and the use of the name fedora (2) in a registered domain. Frank -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 17:15:26 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:15:26 +0000 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> Message-ID: <1221498926.21895.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 17:35 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > Going back to school on Tuesday. > Will have to create a website as part of it, > using whatever app is specified. > > Rather than creating a fictitious site, > was thinking of putting together a fedora-Ireland site. > Which after the schooling could be used, > a basis for Ireland\Fedora users. > > Looking for some feedback on the idea (1), and the use of the name > fedora (2) in a registered domain. The word "Fedora" is a registered trademark in the US and other countries. A registered domain requires approval by the Fedora Board and a trademark license from Red Hat. I'm pretty sure I can't have one ready by Tuesday, but I will be happy to work on this for use in the longer term, if you want it. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt at domsch.com Mon Sep 15 17:22:52 2008 From: matt at domsch.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:22:52 -0500 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> Message-ID: <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 05:35:26PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > Going back to school on Tuesday. > Will have to create a website as part of it, > using whatever app is specified. > > Rather than creating a fictitious site, > was thinking of putting together a fedora-Ireland site. > Which after the schooling could be used, > a basis for Ireland\Fedora users. > > Looking for some feedback on the idea (1), and the use of the name > fedora (2) in a registered domain. I would worry about the long-term implications of such. For my part, when I was in school, projects I did rarely lived longer than the end of finals week. As the Infrastructure and Websites teams will attest, maintaining a useful website takes long-term effort. I'm also unclear what special needs the subset of the Fedora community which may consitute "Ireland Fedora users" would have, different from the global Fedora community, which would be worth the investment in creating such a new site / subgroup. Could such be accomplished using existing Fedora infrastructure? Would that also meet the needs of your class assignment? If the class calls for using Microsoft FrontPage or Macromedia Dreamweaver, there may be little overlap between the site you're developing, and the community you would be promoting. I'd also be surprised if your professor required you to register a domain name. I'd be less surprised if you were expected to create this "site" within your own webspace on your school's servers. Such a local, somewhat temporary (expires when you leave school or the class ends) "fan site" should not require trademark approval. But if you're going to put in the effort to sustain this long-term, then a domain and approval would make sense. Food for thought. Thanks, Matt From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 15 18:06:26 2008 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (Seth Vidal) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:06:26 -0400 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> Message-ID: <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 12:22 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 05:35:26PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > > Going back to school on Tuesday. > > Will have to create a website as part of it, > > using whatever app is specified. > > > > Rather than creating a fictitious site, > > was thinking of putting together a fedora-Ireland site. > > Which after the schooling could be used, > > a basis for Ireland\Fedora users. > > > > Looking for some feedback on the idea (1), and the use of the name > > fedora (2) in a registered domain. > > I would worry about the long-term implications of such. For my part, > when I was in school, projects I did rarely lived longer than the end > of finals week. As the Infrastructure and Websites teams will attest, > maintaining a useful website takes long-term effort. > > I'm also unclear what special needs the subset of the Fedora community > which may consitute "Ireland Fedora users" would have, different from > the global Fedora community, which would be worth the investment in > creating such a new site / subgroup. Could such be accomplished > using existing Fedora infrastructure? Would that also meet the needs > of your class assignment? > > If the class calls for using Microsoft FrontPage or Macromedia > Dreamweaver, there may be little overlap between the site you're > developing, and the community you would be promoting. > > I'd also be surprised if your professor required you to register a > domain name. I'd be less surprised if you were expected to create > this "site" within your own webspace on your school's servers. Such a > local, somewhat temporary (expires when you leave school or the class > ends) "fan site" should not require trademark approval. But if you're > going to put in the effort to sustain this long-term, then a domain > and approval would make sense. > I think ian weller had some good comments about this - b/c we've run into similar situations the spanish-speaking fedora sites. We're moving toward language_code.fedoraproject.org and allowing people who want to maintain translations/resources to work from there - Ian, would you like to comment on the above? -sv From frankly3d at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 18:44:40 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:44:40 +0100 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221498926.21895.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <1221498926.21895.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1221504280.27224.7.camel@frank-01> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 17:15 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > The word "Fedora" is a registered trademark in the US and other > countries. A registered domain requires approval by the Fedora Board > and a trademark license from Red Hat. > Noted > I'm pretty sure I can't have one ready by Tuesday, but I will be happy > to work on this for use in the longer term, if you want it. > Tuesday, not a deadline, only a return to school as a mature student -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From frankly3d at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 18:54:48 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:54:48 +0100 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> Message-ID: <1221504888.27224.19.camel@frank-01> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 12:22 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote: > I would worry about the long-term implications of such. For my part, > when I was in school, projects I did rarely lived longer than the end > of finals week. As the Infrastructure and Websites teams will attest, > maintaining a useful website takes long-term effort. It does, but if it's something that interests one. > > I'm also unclear what special needs the subset of the Fedora community > which may consitute "Ireland Fedora users" would have, different from > the global Fedora community, which would be worth the investment in > creating such a new site / subgroup. > Could such be accomplished > using existing Fedora infrastructure? Probably, but I don't see too many Irish head(s) jumping forward at the moment. What trying to do is kickstart it, then progress from there. > Would that also meet the needs > of your class assignment? Probably not, is a particular program is specified. > > If the class calls for using Microsoft FrontPage or Macromedia > Dreamweaver, there may be little overlap between the site you're > developing, Agreed, does that mean I should not promote Fedora in case my class sees it. > and the community you would be promoting. It's a PC class and an opportunity for exposure to ppl who in the normal course of events may never hear\know of Fedora. > > I'd also be surprised if your professor required you to register a > domain name. He wouldn't but the fact, I did it would be kudos to me, and as above. > I'd be less surprised if you were expected to create > this "site" within your own webspace on your school's servers. Normally the sites are created on students cdrw\usb-stick. > Such a > local, somewhat temporary (expires when you leave school or the class > ends) "fan site" should not require trademark approval. But if you're > going to put in the effort to sustain this long-term, then a domain > and approval would make sense. > What I want is something more permanent, so when school, it can be continued as a focal point. -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From frankly3d at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 18:56:19 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:56:19 +0100 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <1221504979.27224.22.camel@frank-01> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 14:06 -0400, Seth Vidal wrote: > I think ian weller had some good comments about this - b/c we've run > into similar situations the spanish-speaking fedora sites. > We're moving toward language_code.fedoraproject.org and allowing people > who want to maintain translations/resources to work from there - > > Ian, would you like to comment on the above? Will await Ian's input. Frank -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From frankly3d at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 18:56:19 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:56:19 +0100 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <1221504979.27224.22.camel@frank-01> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 14:06 -0400, Seth Vidal wrote: > I think ian weller had some good comments about this - b/c we've run > into similar situations the spanish-speaking fedora sites. > We're moving toward language_code.fedoraproject.org and allowing people > who want to maintain translations/resources to work from there - > > Ian, would you like to comment on the above? Will await Ian's input. Frank -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Sep 16 14:21:11 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:21:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221504979.27224.22.camel@frank-01> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> <1221504979.27224.22.camel@frank-01> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Frank Murphy wrote: > On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 14:06 -0400, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > I think ian weller had some good comments about this - b/c we've run > > into similar situations the spanish-speaking fedora sites. > > We're moving toward language_code.fedoraproject.org and allowing people > > who want to maintain translations/resources to work from there - > > > > Ian, would you like to comment on the above? > > Will await Ian's input. > This is true. Nigel's been working on getting that finalized and it will be so we can have a translated wiki and not just a translated fedoraproject.org/ site -Mike From ianweller at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 02:06:02 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:06:02 -0500 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <20080917020602.GB27150@gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 02:06:26PM -0400, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 12:22 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 05:35:26PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > > > Going back to school on Tuesday. > > > Will have to create a website as part of it, > > > using whatever app is specified. > > > > > > Rather than creating a fictitious site, > > > was thinking of putting together a fedora-Ireland site. > > > Which after the schooling could be used, > > > a basis for Ireland\Fedora users. > > > > > > Looking for some feedback on the idea (1), and the use of the name > > > fedora (2) in a registered domain. > > > > I would worry about the long-term implications of such. For my part, > > when I was in school, projects I did rarely lived longer than the end > > of finals week. As the Infrastructure and Websites teams will attest, > > maintaining a useful website takes long-term effort. > > > > I'm also unclear what special needs the subset of the Fedora community > > which may consitute "Ireland Fedora users" would have, different from > > the global Fedora community, which would be worth the investment in > > creating such a new site / subgroup. Could such be accomplished > > using existing Fedora infrastructure? Would that also meet the needs > > of your class assignment? > > > > If the class calls for using Microsoft FrontPage or Macromedia > > Dreamweaver, there may be little overlap between the site you're > > developing, and the community you would be promoting. > > > > I'd also be surprised if your professor required you to register a > > domain name. I'd be less surprised if you were expected to create > > this "site" within your own webspace on your school's servers. Such a > > local, somewhat temporary (expires when you leave school or the class > > ends) "fan site" should not require trademark approval. But if you're > > going to put in the effort to sustain this long-term, then a domain > > and approval would make sense. > > > > I think ian weller had some good comments about this - b/c we've run > into similar situations the spanish-speaking fedora sites. > > We're moving toward language_code.fedoraproject.org and allowing people > who want to maintain translations/resources to work from there - > > Ian, would you like to comment on the above? > Frank, it's great that you're thinking of Fedora amidst your school work. I do it daily :D However, seeing that we're going to not only have a translated version of our main website, but also be working with our translation team on getting as much of the wiki translated as possible (or at least what *should* be translated, mostly documentation), it would seem to be redundant to have another Fedora Ireland website out there. However, seeing that the Irish Fedora community that will arise from our website will mostly be translators or documentation writers (contributors, in general), there's not as much "community" as I think you're going for here. It *may* be appropriate to get trademark approval from the Board and setup a more community-like website, potentially with a bulletin board, or what have you, but *not* as something that could detract contributors (translators, docs writers, etc) from *our* website. I believe that unless we are planning (secretly? o O) to produce our own forums in every language that we also have a website in, it seems that third parties should be able to do what we're not with our website. Speaking of which -- from what I can tell on translate.fedoraproject.org, we could use a translation team leader for the Irish language. :) Given this, I'll let the board decide on trademark approval, and hopefully this will be thought through thoroughly. Frank, could you give us a potential outline of how you would lay out the website, so that we can make sure that it's not potentially conflicting or competing with a potential Irish translation of Fedora's website and wiki? -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirantpatil at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 04:23:29 2008 From: kirantpatil at gmail.com (Kiran Patil) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:53:29 +0530 Subject: Need Fedora banners and pamplets Message-ID: Hi, We are organizing the GNU/GPL Licensed software seminars during "Software freedom day" event. We are planning one for Fedora also. We got in touch with SUN and they are sending 150 DVD's and T-shirts. If fedora can send its Ts and DVDs it would be good for the community and really sorry for the short notice. We will share the contents and photographs of the event with community. We are expecting more than 100 audiences on this event. We have registered the event with softwarefreedomday.org http://softwarefreedomday.org/teams/asia/India/bengaluru/TurtleLinuxLabs Shipment address: ----------------------------- TURTLE LINUX LABS #39, 2nd floor, 12th 'D' Main, 76th Cross 6thblock,RajajiNagar, Bangalore - 10. Ph: 080-41728133 Here is snippet of SUN response mail, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Kiran, Thank you for contacting us! Are any of the seminars NetBeans specific? If they are would you be willing to share your content with the NetBeans community? At the conclusion of Software Freedom Day we will be putting together an article so it would be great to include your content! Please send us some photographs. How many DVDs would you like? Does 150 and sound good? Thank you again for supporting NetBeans! kirantpatil at gmail.com wrote: Hi, This is Kiran Patil and we are celebrating software freedom day in unique way by organizing a number of seminars. We have registered the event with softwarefreedomday.org http://softwarefreedomday.org/teams/asia/India/bengaluru/TurtleLinuxLabs TURTLE LINUX LABS #39, 2nd floor, 12th 'D' Main, 76th Cross 6thblock,RajajiNagar, Bangalore - 10. Ph: 080-41728133 Thanks, Kiran. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards, Kiran. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Wed Sep 17 10:27:41 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:27:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Need Fedora banners and pamplets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Your best bet will be to contact Rahul Sundaram, who reads this list, and is our Fedora community contact in India. --Max On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Kiran Patil wrote: > Hi, > > We are organizing the GNU/GPL Licensed software seminars during "Software > freedom day" event. > > We are planning one for Fedora also. > > We got in touch with SUN and they are sending 150 DVD's and T-shirts. > > If fedora can send its Ts and DVDs it would be good for the community and > really sorry for the short notice. > > We will share the contents and photographs of the event with community. > > We are expecting more than 100 audiences on this event. > > We have registered the event with softwarefreedomday.org > http://softwarefreedomday.org/teams/asia/India/bengaluru/TurtleLinuxLabs > > Shipment address: > ----------------------------- > TURTLE LINUX LABS > #39, 2nd floor, 12th 'D' Main, 76th Cross > 6thblock,RajajiNagar, > Bangalore - 10. > Ph: 080-41728133 > > Here is snippet of SUN response mail, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hello Kiran, > > Thank you for contacting us! Are any of the seminars NetBeans specific? If > they are would you be willing to share your content with the NetBeans > community? > > At the conclusion of Software Freedom Day we will be putting together an > article > so it would be great to include your content! Please send us some > photographs. > > How many DVDs would you like? Does 150 and sound good? > > Thank you again for supporting NetBeans! > > > kirantpatil at gmail.com wrote: > Hi, > > This is Kiran Patil and we are celebrating software freedom day in unique > way by > organizing a number of seminars. > > We have registered the event with softwarefreedomday.org > http://softwarefreedomday.org/teams/asia/India/bengaluru/TurtleLinuxLabs > > TURTLE LINUX LABS > #39, 2nd floor, 12th 'D' Main, 76th Cross > 6thblock,RajajiNagar, > Bangalore - 10. > Ph: 080-41728133 > > Thanks, > Kiran. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Regards, > Kiran. > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Sep 17 16:39:57 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:09:57 +0530 Subject: Need Fedora banners and pamplets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D132DD.6010702@fedoraproject.org> Kiran Patil wrote: > Hi, > > We are organizing the GNU/GPL Licensed software seminars during > "Software freedom day" event. > > We are planning one for Fedora also. > > We got in touch with SUN and they are sending 150 DVD's and T-shirts. > > If fedora can send its Ts and DVDs it would be good for the community > and really sorry for the short notice. > > We will share the contents and photographs of the event with community. > > We are expecting more than 100 audiences on this event. This is a really short notice period. Contact me offlist and I will see what I can do. Rahul From frankly3d at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 18:11:09 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:11:09 +0100 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <20080917020602.GB27150@gmail.com> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> <20080917020602.GB27150@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1221675069.29567.22.camel@frank-01> On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 21:06 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > However, seeing that the Irish Fedora community that will arise from our > website will mostly be translators or documentation writers > (contributors, in general), there's not as much "community" as I think > you're going for here. That's where a "community" which is actually a good call, would come into it's own, very informal Facts & figures, how to's point to fedoraproject. Want a pint or meet up, come to fedora Ireland or whatever it would be called. More likely fedora-ie.org if possible. > Speaking of which -- from what I can tell on > translate.fedoraproject.org, we could use a translation team leader for > the Irish language. :) If you throw some contact details out, I can forward it to ilug mailing list. I can't speak a word of it, so it wouldn't be me. Or send an invite yourselves, as it's an open list. www.linux.ie > Given this, I'll let the board decide on trademark approval, and > hopefully this will be thought through thoroughly. Frank, could you give > us a potential outline of how you would lay out the website. At the moment, all I know is from the course pov. Programs to be used: Dreamweaver, Photoshop. 25 pages total. Which as soon as course finished, can be replaced with non-prop created. > so that we > can make sure that it's not potentially conflicting or competing with a > potential Irish translation of Fedora's website and wiki? It would be in English, which is the day to day spoken language in the main. Changing to reflect local happenings. and provide local anchor. Frank From ianweller at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 00:03:47 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:03:47 -0500 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <1221675069.29567.22.camel@frank-01> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> <20080917020602.GB27150@gmail.com> <1221675069.29567.22.camel@frank-01> Message-ID: <20080918000347.GA23243@gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 07:11:09PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 21:06 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > > Given this, I'll let the board decide on trademark approval, and > > hopefully this will be thought through thoroughly. Frank, could you give > > us a potential outline of how you would lay out the website. > > At the moment, all I know is from the course pov. > Programs to be used: Dreamweaver, Photoshop. 25 pages total. > Which as soon as course finished, can be replaced with non-prop created. > Try and see if your instructor will allow you to use programs that are free and open source. (I wouldn't be surprised if they say no. My high school's "Web Page Design" program is learning how to use FrontPage. barf) At least on the art team, we really really really prefer it if people use free and open source software when promoting free and open source software. ;) > > so that we > > can make sure that it's not potentially conflicting or competing with a > > potential Irish translation of Fedora's website and wiki? > > It would be in English, which is the day to day spoken language in the > main. Changing to reflect local happenings. and provide local anchor. > Ah, so it's based on local things. I'm wondering if that would be better suited to be on the wiki. I'd like to see some other people chime in on this subject to see what they think. (/me points at Board members) *If* we do have the case where English is the main spoken language in Ireland, do we need an Irish translation of our website? (Probably why none exists yet.) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Sep 18 03:38:38 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:38:38 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting Message-ID: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting 2008-09-17 == Invitees == Jonathan Roberts -- Marketing Karsten Wade -- Docs Jesse Keating -- Rel Eng (present) Paul Frields -- FPL (present) Spot Callaway -- FEM (present) John Poelstra -- Organizer (present) Mike McGrath -- Infrastructure (present) Dimitris Glezos -- Translation (present) M?ir?n Duffy -- Art (present) Will Woods -- QA James Laska -- QA (present) Ricky Zhou -- Websites (present) Bill Nottingham -- Development == Meeting Goals == o not intended to be a lengthy meeting o opportunity to quickly go around the "virtual room" to make sure we are all ready for Beta release day o make it easier for us to communicate in real-time across teams on the telephone o John Poelstra also trying to flush out the taskjuggler schedules to reflect the reality of what needs to get done so that future schedules are tighter o Invited a representative from each Fedora group with a role in getting the release out the door == Meeting Notes == === Release Engineering === o Release Engineering is expecting the following on release day 1) announcement with link to page with information about the beta 2) landing zone to drive all the users to --Mike M notes that this page http://get.fedoraproject.org should be used going forward for all releases o All tasks and content for the beta release (for all teams) should be ready the day before release--Monday, September 22, 2008 --need to do a dry run or validate that things (links, content, etc.) are in working order before announcing --meet 1 hour before release and try things out o Future release cycles could be smoother with a buffer between feature freeze and beta freeze --considering during Fedora 11 planning o Consider proposing a set of earlier dates for core packages in the distro to solidify the release earlier. For example: anaconda, yum, rpm, etc. o Consider moving feature freeze to one week before beta freeze so that features don't crash land on the beta freeze date === Documentation === o docs team responsible for content of releases notes o single page release notes --do not get translated o will assist release engineering to help with release announcement o Docs team will need more community participation and help to get the installation guide ready --past contributors will not be able to be as involved this release cycle --waiting for git repo to get online; Mike will help coordinate as needed o https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Beta/ReleaseNotes === Art Team === o Art team to create banner to point to beta o Art team is still deciding on a final theme and content will not be ready in time to package for the beta --in the future we will target getting new artwork ready and packaged by feature freeze o Art team will work on a count-down timer to be ready at the release of the Preview Release ==== Web Sites Team === o websites team responsible for presentation of get.fedoraproject.org === Marketing & PR === o Paul is working with RHT PR to create press release blog o Also need to do coordination with Jonathan Roberts and the Fedora marketing team === Translation === o Translation deadline pulled in by one week to provide one week between the translation deadline and the final development freeze o Translation of the release notes starts with the preview release o Dimitris is trying to get Red Hat to commit internal resources to help translate release notes for languages that RHT supports --15 languages now supported by Fedora could increase to 30 or 35 o Considered how we could make sure that translations are repacked before before final devel freeze? --use tracker bugs? --Spot is willing to help patrol and look for things that are missing == Next Meeting == o Prepare for Preview Release o Wednesday, October 22, 2008 o 17:00 UTC From frankly3d at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 06:43:38 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:43:38 +0100 Subject: Fedora- Ireland Website? In-Reply-To: <20080918000347.GA23243@gmail.com> References: <1221496526.27224.4.camel@frank-01> <20080915172252.GA20088@domsch.com> <1221501986.25056.46.camel@rosebud> <20080917020602.GB27150@gmail.com> <1221675069.29567.22.camel@frank-01> <20080918000347.GA23243@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1221720218.2655.3.camel@frank-01> On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 19:03 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > > > Try and see if your instructor will allow you to use programs that are > free and open source. (I wouldn't be surprised if they say no. My high > school's "Web Page Design" program is learning how to use FrontPage. Unfortunatly, it's not set by the school, it's set by Fetac(.ie) the governing body. > barf) At least on the art team, we really really really prefer it if > people use free and open source software when promoting free and open > source software. ;) > But as stated, if they get their 25 (for the year). Nothing stating, site cannot be revamped, as per foss. Frank -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 18 12:50:06 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:20:06 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> John Poelstra wrote: > Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting > 2008-09-17 > > == Invitees == > Jonathan Roberts -- Marketing > Karsten Wade -- Docs > Jesse Keating -- Rel Eng (present) > Paul Frields -- FPL (present) > Spot Callaway -- FEM (present) > John Poelstra -- Organizer (present) > Mike McGrath -- Infrastructure (present) > Dimitris Glezos -- Translation (present) > M?ir?n Duffy -- Art (present) > Will Woods -- QA > James Laska -- QA (present) > Ricky Zhou -- Websites (present) > Bill Nottingham -- Development Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not attended which leaves that group voice unheard. Rahul From jwboyer at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 13:09:22 2008 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:09:22 -0400 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 06:20:06PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > John Poelstra wrote: >> Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting >> 2008-09-17 >> >> == Invitees == >> Jonathan Roberts -- Marketing >> Karsten Wade -- Docs >> Jesse Keating -- Rel Eng (present) >> Paul Frields -- FPL (present) >> Spot Callaway -- FEM (present) >> John Poelstra -- Organizer (present) >> Mike McGrath -- Infrastructure (present) >> Dimitris Glezos -- Translation (present) >> M?ir?n Duffy -- Art (present) >> Will Woods -- QA >> James Laska -- QA (present) >> Ricky Zhou -- Websites (present) >> Bill Nottingham -- Development > > Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the > different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not > attended which leaves that group voice unheard. I'm pretty sure the meeting was public. The mentioned people are the de facto representatives of their groups. If they could not attend, they should have asked someone from their group to fill in. josh From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 18 13:06:38 2008 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:06:38 +0200 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> Message-ID: 2008/9/18 John Poelstra : > Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting > 2008-09-17 > > == Invitees == > Jonathan Roberts -- Marketing > Karsten Wade -- Docs > Jesse Keating -- Rel Eng (present) > Paul Frields -- FPL (present) > Spot Callaway -- FEM (present) > John Poelstra -- Organizer (present) > Mike McGrath -- Infrastructure (present) > Dimitris Glezos -- Translation (present) > M?ir?n Duffy -- Art (present) > Will Woods -- QA > James Laska -- QA (present) > Ricky Zhou -- Websites (present) > Bill Nottingham -- Development > > == Meeting Goals == > o not intended to be a lengthy meeting > o opportunity to quickly go around the "virtual room" to make sure we are > all ready for Beta release day > o make it easier for us to communicate in real-time across teams on the > telephone > o John Poelstra also trying to flush out the taskjuggler schedules to > reflect the reality of what needs to get done so that future schedules are > tighter > o Invited a representative from each Fedora group with a role in getting the > release out the door > I'm really happy to hear these great news from F10 Release Planning team! Even if Ambassadors Project isn't involved, reasonably, in F10 Release Planning process, we are working hard trying to push F10 with more than 15 Release Events around the World planned for November and others planned for December. Actually you can see most of them here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/ReleaseParty/F10 To see the details click on the links in that page or see /wiki/FedoraEvents. Actually we are organizing resources to make those event real happen, along with a deep collaboration with event owners (we held a IRC meetings and we are planning list discussion on that topic). Hoping you'll enjoy the initiative Best regards Francesco Ugolini p.s. I'm currently working on a map (fugolini.fedorapeople.org/remap.html) where everyone can see where and when we will organize the events. Actually it's quite out of date, waiting to add more details. From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Sep 18 13:12:50 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:12:50 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Jonathan Roberts -- Marketing As we get closer to the final release, it might be useful to invite someone from FAMSCo, since there are probably going to be 10-15 worldwide Fedora 10 release parties that need to be coordinated with the Marketing message and with the GA date, but not with the intention of dragging the meeting out any longer than it needs to be. --Max From stickster at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 14:09:33 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:09:33 -0400 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20080918140933.GA26453@salma.internal.frields.org> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 03:12:50PM +0200, Max Spevack wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>> Jonathan Roberts -- Marketing > > As we get closer to the final release, it might be useful to invite > someone from FAMSCo, since there are probably going to be 10-15 > worldwide Fedora 10 release parties that need to be coordinated with the > Marketing message and with the GA date, but not with the intention of > dragging the meeting out any longer than it needs to be. Sounds reasonable to me. Would you like to check with FAMSCo to see whom they'd like to delegate for this purpose? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Sep 18 16:57:26 2008 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:57:26 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1221757046.14439.34.camel@luminos.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 18:20 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the > different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not > attended which leaves that group voice unheard. These are supposed to be representatives from the various groups, who should have had release meetings on their own already and just reporting information back to the other groups. Having a 50 person meeting doesn't work very well. Is this just speculation on your part, or is there an actual issue to talk about? -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Sep 18 19:16:38 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:16:38 -0700 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2008-SEP-16 Message-ID: <48D2A916.8070202@redhat.com> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-09-16 == Roll Call == Attendees: John Poelstra, Max Spevack, Paul Frields, Seth Vidal, Jef Spaleta, Matt Domsch, Jesse Keating, Spot Callaway, Harald Hoyer, Chris Tyler, and Karsten Wade Regrets: Bill Nottingham == Fedora EMEA update == * Max Spevack * Revenue and expense activity are reflected in entity's books which is a registered German non-profit entity * Entity has covered the expense to create Fedora t-shirts and is accounting for the related revenue from selling them * Goal is to supplement budget that Red Hat provides for world-wide events * Infrastructure to do things is in place and looking forward to doing more in the future == Beta Freeze and Upcoming Release == * Release Engineering held a round-table yesterday * Still targeting to release day of 2008-09-23 == Beta Release Meeting == * John Poelstra is organizing a meeting with each of the team leaders from the various part of Fedora * Make sure coordination between the groups is in place * Meeting on 2008-09-16 == Codecs == * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GStreamer_dependencies_in_RPM * https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438225 * Seth Vidal is going to meet with Richard Hughes to make sure a EULA associated with a specific package or codec works correctly with PackageKit and associated packages == Trademark Update == * Board wants to maintain a good hold on how the primary Fedora trademark is used while provides lots of latitude for secondary mark * Process of legal review continues and appears to be moving forward favourably * trademark guidelines draft has recently been updated and can be found here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/NewTrademarkGuidelines From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Sep 18 19:38:58 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:38:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <1221757046.14439.34.camel@luminos.localdomain> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <1221757046.14439.34.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 18:20 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the > > different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not > > attended which leaves that group voice unheard. > > These are supposed to be representatives from the various groups, who > should have had release meetings on their own already and just reporting > information back to the other groups. Having a 50 person meeting > doesn't work very well. > > Is this just speculation on your part, or is there an actual issue to > talk about? > Also this wasn't a "direction of Fedora" type meeting its a "Ok art team, we need a banner for the release". "Ok releng, we need to make sure that we use get.fedoraproject.org in the release announcement as the primary location to direct people to" type thing. Mostly we go down the checklist that John's been keeping over the last many releases and we make sure that stuff is getting done and that people aren't wrongfully assuming certain tasks are getting done. -Mike From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 18 19:49:40 2008 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:49:40 -0400 Subject: 5th anniv Message-ID: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Hey, is anything planned for our 5th anniv? Domain Name:FEDORAPROJECT.ORG Created On:24-Sep-2003 10:32:11 UTC -sv -- I only speak for me. From sopwith at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 21:58:15 2008 From: sopwith at gmail.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:58:15 -0400 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: My first thought was "we're on Fedora 10 in only five years?" and then I thought "five years already?" :) Congrats y'all, -- Elliot "We love Him, because He first loved us." On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 3:49 PM, seth vidal wrote: > Hey, > is anything planned for our 5th anniv? > > Domain Name:FEDORAPROJECT.ORG > Created On:24-Sep-2003 10:32:11 UTC From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Sep 18 22:23:37 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:23:37 +0200 (CEST) Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Elliot Lee wrote: > My first thought was "we're on Fedora 10 in only five years?" and then > I thought "five years already?" :) I think for the 5 year anniversary we need all the old-skool guys to write in to f-a-b and tell one of their favorite Fedora stories. /me looks around in the tubes for Gafton From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 22:29:31 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:29:31 -0800 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <604aa7910809181529o66bf385ava55b57f8ea875fe7@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > I think for the 5 year anniversary we need all the old-skool guys to write > in to f-a-b and tell one of their favorite Fedora stories. Compile the stories into a coffee table book, sell it, and give the proceeds to a charity. -jef From stickster at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 22:37:21 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:37:21 -0400 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <1221777441.5715.98.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 15:49 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > Hey, > is anything planned for our 5th anniv? > > Domain Name:FEDORAPROJECT.ORG > Created On:24-Sep-2003 10:32:11 UTC The Beta release and associated deadlines are going to make it difficult to pull a lot of resources together quickly, but here are some suggestions in which the whole community could participate: * Fill the blogosphere with "Happy 5th Birthday Fedora!" posts. * Triage 5 bugs in Bugzilla (and one to grow on?). * Make Fedora Live discs and hand them out this weekend for Software Freedom Day. In all seriousness, maybe we could get a spiffy Happy Birthday web graphic to replace that butt-ugly guy whose picture has been hanging around on our website for WAY too long. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Sep 18 23:02:09 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:02:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, Max Spevack wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Elliot Lee wrote: > > > My first thought was "we're on Fedora 10 in only five years?" and then I > > thought "five years already?" :) > > I think for the 5 year anniversary we need all the old-skool guys to write in > to f-a-b and tell one of their favorite Fedora stories. > I remember this one time, at Fedora camp... we had to rebuild a whole bunch of stuff. :) -Mike From smooge at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 23:37:36 2008 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:37:36 -0600 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <80d7e4090809181637p62a7ca37le3ee86068aed7b9d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Max Spevack wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Elliot Lee wrote: > >> My first thought was "we're on Fedora 10 in only five years?" and then I >> thought "five years already?" :) > > I think for the 5 year anniversary we need all the old-skool guys to write > in to f-a-b and tell one of their favorite Fedora stories. > > /me looks around in the tubes for Gafton Back in 1997/98, all the Red Hat developers had either gone on vacation or were going to various show because some version of Red Hat Linux 5.x had been released. We in support had been told to direct any questions to the new employee who was down the hall. The big scary guy who smoked a lot, and seemed to know only five words.. none of them printable. So we pulled short straws and one of us would creep down the hallway and ask the TrollKing to fix some package that was horribly broken. That person would then get a barrel of swear words and other language that we weren't sure was directed at us or the package (or the co-owner who had decided to allow everyone else 2 weeks break after a release). Eventually we found out that getting him cigarettes without filters and instant coffee that he would use as straight food was our best bets for survival. Oh wait, you wanted a fedora story with Gafton... -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From stickster at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 00:41:29 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:41:29 -0400 Subject: Fedora intrusion update, 2008-09-19 UTC 0230 Message-ID: <1221784889.6988.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Work on the Fedora infrastructure has returned to normal at this point. Updates are once again available for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9, our current releases, using the new package signing key we've implemented. To read more about the new package signing key, refer to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/New_signing_key https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Enabling_new_signing_key In addition, Rawhide has returned to service, as well as our other services such as Fedora Hosted. As always, our team of system administrators makes incremental improvements constantly. Sometimes these improvements involve temporary outages, and such outages may occur in the future as part of normal operations. At this time, however, we believe Fedora's recovery efforts are complete. To reiterate our previous statement, we have not found any security vulnerabilities in any Fedora software as a result of our efforts. The security investigation into the intrusion is still in progress. When that investigation is completed, the Fedora Project's intention is to publish a more detailed report on the matter. We will issue further updates as more information becomes available. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 00:45:40 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:45:40 +0200 Subject: Fedora intrusion update, 2008-09-19 UTC 0230 Message-ID: <000601c919f1$0a63dfa0$ba00000a@grecom.local> Work on the Fedora infrastructure has returned to normal at this point. Updates are once again available for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9, our current releases, using the new package signing key we've implemented. To read more about the new package signing key, refer to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/New_signing_key https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Enabling_new_signing_key In addition, Rawhide has returned to service, as well as our other services such as Fedora Hosted. As always, our team of system administrators makes incremental improvements constantly. Sometimes these improvements involve temporary outages, and such outages may occur in the future as part of normal operations. At this time, however, we believe Fedora's recovery efforts are complete. To reiterate our previous statement, we have not found any security vulnerabilities in any Fedora software as a result of our efforts. The security investigation into the intrusion is still in progress. When that investigation is completed, the Fedora Project's intention is to publish a more detailed report on the matter. We will issue further updates as more information becomes available. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- fedora-announce-list mailing list fedora-announce-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-announce-list From stickster at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 00:45:40 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:45:40 +0200 Subject: Fedora intrusion update, 2008-09-19 UTC 0230 Message-ID: <000a01c919f1$0a6650a0$ba00000a@grecom.local> Work on the Fedora infrastructure has returned to normal at this point. Updates are once again available for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9, our current releases, using the new package signing key we've implemented. To read more about the new package signing key, refer to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/New_signing_key https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Enabling_new_signing_key In addition, Rawhide has returned to service, as well as our other services such as Fedora Hosted. As always, our team of system administrators makes incremental improvements constantly. Sometimes these improvements involve temporary outages, and such outages may occur in the future as part of normal operations. At this time, however, we believe Fedora's recovery efforts are complete. To reiterate our previous statement, we have not found any security vulnerabilities in any Fedora software as a result of our efforts. The security investigation into the intrusion is still in progress. When that investigation is completed, the Fedora Project's intention is to publish a more detailed report on the matter. We will issue further updates as more information becomes available. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- fedora-announce-list mailing list fedora-announce-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-announce-list From gafton at gafton.net Fri Sep 19 05:04:37 2008 From: gafton at gafton.net (Cristian Gafton) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:04:37 -0400 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <1221800677.31718.17.camel@alienpad.rpath.com> On Fri, 2008-09-19 at 00:23 +0200, Max Spevack wrote: > I think for the 5 year anniversary we need all the old-skool guys to > write in to f-a-b and tell one of their favorite Fedora stories. > > /me looks around in the tubes for Gafton Well, stories can surely be had for cheap (meaning, beer would do). Unfortunately the adult language content required to paint an objective and accurate picture of some of those events and people's reactions would probably cross the threshold for conduct unbecoming on such a distinct list such as the advisory-board... But, if you really want to have a crack at it, one could search in the mailing lists archives and dig out the emails of doom and gloom from around the time the Fedora Project started. Some of the current highly visible members of the community were predicting the total failure of the project because of the "incredible greed" shown by Red Hat for splitting/spitting/spewing out Fedora on its own, for lack of real support from the company, half hearted community building measures, etc. I'm not saying that times were not tough, but contrasting where Fedora is today with the barrage of doubt that surrounded the start of the project would provide for a deeply satisfying yell of "Well, how about that, you mo-fo-s!" A nice anniversary like this is cause for celebration, and what better way to celebrate than to rub it in the face of those who doubted the resolve of a - let's face it - fairly small core of hacker who've kept at it over the years. There should be a page dedicated for celebrating this, and y'all should fill it with the nicest quotes you can find. :-) Cristian -- Cristian Gafton From mspevack at redhat.com Fri Sep 19 09:05:10 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:05:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809181529o66bf385ava55b57f8ea875fe7@mail.gmail.com> References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> <604aa7910809181529o66bf385ava55b57f8ea875fe7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > give the proceeds to a charity. like the Fedora Foundation? :) From jwboyer at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 12:13:31 2008 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:13:31 -0400 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: <1221777441.5715.98.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> <1221777441.5715.98.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20080919121331.GB3083@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 06:37:21PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: >On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 15:49 -0400, seth vidal wrote: >> Hey, >> is anything planned for our 5th anniv? >> >> Domain Name:FEDORAPROJECT.ORG >> Created On:24-Sep-2003 10:32:11 UTC > >The Beta release and associated deadlines are going to make it difficult >to pull a lot of resources together quickly, but here are some >suggestions in which the whole community could participate: > >* Fill the blogosphere with "Happy 5th Birthday Fedora!" posts. > >* Triage 5 bugs in Bugzilla (and one to grow on?). > >* Make Fedora Live discs and hand them out this weekend for Software >Freedom Day. > >In all seriousness, maybe we could get a spiffy Happy Birthday web >graphic to replace that butt-ugly guy whose picture has been hanging >around on our website for WAY too long. We could revive the Fedora Awards thing. Strawman: 1) 3 awards given out per year 2) Candidates have to be nominated, cannot self-nominate. 3) Cannot have won a Fedora Award in the past. 4) Nominations are collected for 2 weeks, then a vote is held. Maybe a peer-nominated, peer-elected award that recognized significant contributions to Fedora would go over better than the original way it was done. josh From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 13:08:29 2008 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:08:29 +0200 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: 2008/9/18 seth vidal : > Hey, > is anything planned for our 5th anniv? > > Domain Name:FEDORAPROJECT.ORG > Created On:24-Sep-2003 10:32:11 UTC > >From a personal point of view, I agree with Jeff proposal to make something concerning people stories and Fedora. Actually we have some just done Fedora Interviews, not only, maybe we can catch the first mails sent in Fedora lists by at-that-time-fedora-newbies (now upstream developers etc.), start with those one and let those people talk about their experience in those 5 years. Another possibility could take in consideration the big steps made by fedora (e.g. beginning, extras core merging) and ask people who lived it directly, what that mean for the contributor-life and for the way for success of fedora. There are a lot of ways to create a 5 year birthday Fedora book, maybe it could be grat to find the fedora way to do it :) I think everything Fedora could organize to celebrate its birthday, has to be something that can involve a big number of people: it would represent the birthday of a community that is growing and could demonstrate the human power (and potential) behind Fedora. Regards Francesco Ugolini From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 15:37:16 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:07:16 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 06:20:06PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> John Poelstra wrote: >>> Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting >>> 2008-09-17 >>> >>> == Invitees == >>> Jonathan Roberts -- Marketing >>> Karsten Wade -- Docs >>> Jesse Keating -- Rel Eng (present) >>> Paul Frields -- FPL (present) >>> Spot Callaway -- FEM (present) >>> John Poelstra -- Organizer (present) >>> Mike McGrath -- Infrastructure (present) >>> Dimitris Glezos -- Translation (present) >>> M?ir?n Duffy -- Art (present) >>> Will Woods -- QA >>> James Laska -- QA (present) >>> Ricky Zhou -- Websites (present) >>> Bill Nottingham -- Development >> Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the >> different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not >> attended which leaves that group voice unheard. > > I'm pretty sure the meeting was public. Was the invitation public? Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 15:42:16 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:12:16 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <1221757046.14439.34.camel@luminos.localdomain> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <1221757046.14439.34.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: <48D3C858.6080007@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 18:20 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the >> different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not >> attended which leaves that group voice unheard. > > These are supposed to be representatives from the various groups, who > should have had release meetings on their own already and just reporting > information back to the other groups. Having a 50 person meeting > doesn't work very well. > > Is this just speculation on your part, or is there an actual issue to > talk about? I don't see a speculation. I didn't knew about a meeting since the invitation to the meeting doesn't seem to have been made publicly. The meeting minutes show that a few people representative of the groups have not attended. I would have liked to be see someone represent marketing for instance and probably would have attended. If you had send a public invitation and I missed it, please point it out to me? Rahul From jwboyer at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 16:34:55 2008 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:34:55 -0400 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 09:07:16PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the >>> different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not >>> attended which leaves that group voice unheard. >> >> I'm pretty sure the meeting was public. > > Was the invitation public? I don't know. It doesn't really matter though. See the part of my email that you cut off in your reply. josh From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 16:43:32 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:13:32 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 09:07:16PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>>> Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the >>>> different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not >>>> attended which leaves that group voice unheard. >>> I'm pretty sure the meeting was public. >> Was the invitation public? > > I don't know. It doesn't really matter though. See the part of my email > that you cut off in your reply. I think it does matter. If new meetings for Fedora is being organized, invitations MUST be send publicly. I would want to know who is organizing it, where it was held, which date and time, whether others are attending etc. If it is a IRC meeting, where are the logs? You said you are sure the meeting was public. Why do you think that? Rahul From jwboyer at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 16:53:10 2008 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:53:10 -0400 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:13:32PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Josh Boyer wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 09:07:16PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>>>> Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the >>>>> different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not >>>>> attended which leaves that group voice unheard. >>>> I'm pretty sure the meeting was public. >>> Was the invitation public? >> >> I don't know. It doesn't really matter though. See the part of my email >> that you cut off in your reply. > > I think it does matter. If new meetings for Fedora is being organized, > invitations MUST be send publicly. I would want to know who is > organizing it, where it was held, which date and time, whether others > are attending etc. If it is a IRC meeting, where are the logs? You said > you are sure the meeting was public. Why do you think that? I was wrong in thinking it was public. It was a phone call, not an IRC meeting. Still does not matter, and you still apparently haven't read the second part of my original reply. josh From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Sep 19 17:31:16 2008 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:31:16 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <1221845476.14439.73.camel@luminos.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-09-19 at 12:53 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: > I was wrong in thinking it was public. It was a phone call, not an IRC > meeting. Just for more fun and confusion, a meeting doesn't have to be on IRC for it to be "public". While this meeting wasn't announced on one of the major lists (for good reason), it was somewhat assumed that if a leader for a group couldn't make it that they would have somebody else go in their steed. Perhaps we'll call that out a bit more clearly next time. These people were sent mail multiple times leading up to the meeting so there was plenty of chance to find an alternative. The release readiness meetings are designed to be very high bandwith information exchanges between the various groups involved with doing releases. Obviously the later releases (preview, final) are more important and have more people involved than the earlier (alpha, beta) ones. It's an exchange of information that each group should already have through through and discussed in lower bandwith higher visibility meetings within each group. The readiness meeting is just like a mini mission control meeting to ensure things go off without a hitch and that those leading the groups and responsible for the functions are aware of whats going on. If nobody from your group showed up, I'm sorry, but we gave them ample time to find a replacement. You can be prepared as these meetings will come up for each major milestone during our development cycle. If you want, we can probably embed this information into the schedule pages that John creates, it's not like those aren't busy enough as they are (: -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From smooge at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 18:07:10 2008 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:07:10 -0600 Subject: 5th anniv In-Reply-To: <1221800677.31718.17.camel@alienpad.rpath.com> References: <1221767380.3057.7.camel@rosebud> <1221800677.31718.17.camel@alienpad.rpath.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090809191107p2d8b71e8j4214a85fe8b55c27@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:04 PM, Cristian Gafton wrote: > On Fri, 2008-09-19 at 00:23 +0200, Max Spevack wrote: >> I think for the 5 year anniversary we need all the old-skool guys to >> write in to f-a-b and tell one of their favorite Fedora stories. >> >> /me looks around in the tubes for Gafton ... > Some of the current highly visible members of the community were > predicting the total failure of the project because of the "incredible > greed" shown by Red Hat for splitting/spitting/spewing out Fedora on its > own, for lack of real support from the company, half hearted community In googling for those phrases one finds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bono_Hats with Red hat ? emotions Blue hat ? process control not sure why greed spew fedora red hat put that on the top of my searches.. but I think that would summarize the first 5 years in a nut shell. Lots of emotions and then process control. > building measures, etc. I'm not saying that times were not tough, but > contrasting where Fedora is today with the barrage of doubt that > surrounded the start of the project would provide for a deeply > satisfying yell of "Well, how about that, you mo-fo-s!" > -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 18:45:46 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:15:46 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:13:32PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Josh Boyer wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 09:07:16PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>>>>> Wouldn't it be useful to invite more than person as part of the >>>>>> different groups? Currently it seems a number of people have not >>>>>> attended which leaves that group voice unheard. >>>>> I'm pretty sure the meeting was public. >>>> Was the invitation public? >>> I don't know. It doesn't really matter though. See the part of my email >>> that you cut off in your reply. >> I think it does matter. If new meetings for Fedora is being organized, >> invitations MUST be send publicly. I would want to know who is >> organizing it, where it was held, which date and time, whether others >> are attending etc. If it is a IRC meeting, where are the logs? You said >> you are sure the meeting was public. Why do you think that? > > I was wrong in thinking it was public. It was a phone call, not an IRC > meeting. Still does not matter, and you still apparently haven't read the > second part of my original reply. I have. My point still stands. If a new Fedora meeting is being held, it should not planned and organized as a secret. It should be announced ahead of time in public so interested people can participate. Even if you don't want others to participate, you can still organize it publicly. The fact that the people someone decided to pick on their own in private, can pull in others doesn't change this. Rahul From jwboyer at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 18:51:09 2008 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:51:09 -0400 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:15:46AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I have. My point still stands. If a new Fedora meeting is being held, it > should not planned and organized as a secret. It should be announced So those Red Hat budget meetings that control the financial fate of Fedora... those should be planned in public too right? Or the meetings that were held to discuss the outage crisis? Should Paul publish his work calendar, given that he's the Fedora project lead and has Fedora meetings all the time? Seriously, everything is not black and white. You're making entirely too big of a deal about this because you didn't get invited and someone pissed in your lemondade. josh From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 19:16:28 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:46:28 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:15:46AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> I have. My point still stands. If a new Fedora meeting is being held, it >> should not planned and organized as a secret. It should be announced > > So those Red Hat budget meetings that control the financial fate of Fedora... > those should be planned in public too right? No but the meeting minutes are not published publicly for such meetings either. The Fedora specific budget details are however published at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Accounting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Expenses This I consider to be a very good thing. Or the meetings that were held > to discuss the outage crisis? Here there might have been reasons for secrecy and it would better to let people know that such a meeting is being held even then. I don't see any such requirement for release planning. Should Paul publish his work calendar, given > that he's the Fedora project lead and has Fedora meetings all the time? Since all the other public Fedora meetings are well known, I don't need his work calender. > Seriously, everything is not black and white. You're making entirely too > big of a deal about this because you didn't get invited and someone pissed > in your lemondade Whether I get invited or not is irrelevant and I don't drink lemondate much ;-) I never said I should be invited even once. There is no need to be so petty. You might want to read about what I said completely. My issue is with the way in this meeting is organized and planned in secret and just that. Rahul From mspevack at redhat.com Fri Sep 19 19:45:14 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:45:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > No but the meeting minutes are not published publicly for such > meetings either. The Fedora specific budget details are however > published at > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Accounting > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Expenses > > This I consider to be a very good thing. It's off-topic for this thread, but I really appreciate you saying that. I go to a lot of effort to make those numbers (a) accurate and (b) public, and I'm glad that there are people who actually care. It makes me happy. --Max From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 20:33:41 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:03:41 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> Max Spevack wrote: > On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> No but the meeting minutes are not published publicly for such >> meetings either. The Fedora specific budget details are however >> published at >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Accounting >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Expenses >> >> This I consider to be a very good thing. > > It's off-topic for this thread, but I really appreciate you saying that. > I go to a lot of effort to make those numbers (a) accurate and (b) > public, and I'm glad that there are people who actually care. It makes > me happy. I absolutely do care about it. It is one example of transparency of process which I have highlighted specifically to other people. I have been a board member and I understand there are good reasons to keep secrets on special occasions and I have done so when asked to if the reasons are appropriate. You don't see me demanding that we publish passwords to Fedora infrastructure systems either. Taking the lazy route out and blaming the messenger and questioning motivation is however a very petty thing to do when concerns are expressed. If you hold private meetings related to Fedora, you better have very good reasons to do so and be explicit about it. It might be more work to involve other people but we must be making special efforts every step of the way to be as transparent as possible. This meeting is not a example of that. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Sep 19 21:20:32 2008 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:20:32 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 02:03 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > If you hold private meetings related to Fedora, you better have very > good reasons to do so and be explicit about it. It might be more work to > involve other people but we must be making special efforts every step of > the way to be as transparent as possible. This meeting is not a example > of that. It's also not an example of a shadowy conspiracy trying to undermine Fedora as a project. It's quite simply just a few people who need to discuss things getting together and discussing them. In the interest of transparency, we've published notes from that discussion. Seriously, should I put up a billboard each time I gather a couple people on IRC to talk about an issue, or a schedule item, or a bug? I think you're way overreacting here. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 21:27:17 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:27:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: <507738ef0809191427v387a941bo7e6c5cce93057a8d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/9/19 Jesse Keating : > On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 02:03 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> >> If you hold private meetings related to Fedora, you better have very >> good reasons to do so and be explicit about it. It might be more work to >> involve other people but we must be making special efforts every step of >> the way to be as transparent as possible. This meeting is not a example >> of that. Rahul, and to everyone, I need to apologise for a couple of things here. Firstly, that I haven't been keeping the rest of the marketing meeting properly informed about these meetings; I'll be sure to in the future. Secondly, my apologies for missing this meeting and not arranging for anyone to attend in my place, the week or so around the meeting I was feeling pretty rough and gave Fedora very little thought! In the future, I'll be sure to bring it up at a marketing meeting or on list before to see if anybody has any issues they want raising, and after to make sure everyone is aware of what happened. This, I would suggest, should be the minimum set of requirements for anybody attending this meeting: to take reasonable steps to ensure that people from the areas they represent know what is happening. Kind regards, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 21:40:34 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:10:34 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 02:03 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> If you hold private meetings related to Fedora, you better have very >> good reasons to do so and be explicit about it. It might be more work to >> involve other people but we must be making special efforts every step of >> the way to be as transparent as possible. This meeting is not a example >> of that. > > It's also not an example of a shadowy conspiracy trying to undermine > Fedora as a project. It's quite simply just a few people who need to > discuss things getting together and discussing them. In the interest of > transparency, we've published notes from that discussion. > Seriously, should I put up a billboard each time I gather a couple > people on IRC to talk about an issue, or a schedule item, or a bug? I > think you're way overreacting here. This meeting has 13 invitees including the project leader and a variety of people from various sub projects and it is fairly clear that is not comparable to a minor IRC discussion with a couple of people. I never called it a conspiracy either. No strawman's please. I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret about something when there was no need to do so and such things do undermine a project even without a conspiracy (which I repeat, never accused anyone of) I wish you would acknowledge that and help fix the process that leads to such things and make an effort to involve others next time. That involves: * Announcing that a meeting (phone or irc) is taking place with the agenda ahead of time publicly * Let others participate if possible or state reasons why you are limiting participants * Post meeting minutes (and IRC logs for IRC meetings) Fairly simple things to do really. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 19 21:42:42 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:12:42 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <507738ef0809191427v387a941bo7e6c5cce93057a8d@mail.gmail.com> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <507738ef0809191427v387a941bo7e6c5cce93057a8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48D41CD2.8080300@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > 2008/9/19 Jesse Keating : >> On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 02:03 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> If you hold private meetings related to Fedora, you better have very >>> good reasons to do so and be explicit about it. It might be more work to >>> involve other people but we must be making special efforts every step of >>> the way to be as transparent as possible. This meeting is not a example >>> of that. > > Rahul, and to everyone, I need to apologise for a couple of things > here. Firstly, that I haven't been keeping the rest of the marketing > meeting properly informed about these meetings; I'll be sure to in the > future. Secondly, my apologies for missing this meeting and not > arranging for anyone to attend in my place, the week or so around the > meeting I was feeling pretty rough and gave Fedora very little > thought! > > In the future, I'll be sure to bring it up at a marketing meeting or > on list before to see if anybody has any issues they want raising, and > after to make sure everyone is aware of what happened. This, I would > suggest, should be the minimum set of requirements for anybody > attending this meeting: to take reasonable steps to ensure that people > from the areas they represent know what is happening. Thanks Jonathan Roberts. I am happy you understand my concerns. Get well soon. Rahul From kanarip at kanarip.com Sun Sep 21 01:25:45 2008 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 03:25:45 +0200 Subject: Orange Sombrero 9 Released - based on Fedora Message-ID: <48D5A299.6000908@kanarip.com> One more Software Freedom Day well spent ;-) I'm proud to announce a new minor player in the world of insignificant clones of major, important Free and Open Source Linux Distributions, *bling* Orange Sombrero - /based on Fedora/ *bling* Orange Sombrero starts with releasing version number 9 - the same version number as the upstream distribution, Fedora, to avoid confusion. Has anything been changed? Yeah, a patch to anaconda[1,2] that didn't make it in in time for the Fedora 10 Beta freeze has been applied to compose this release -which is sort of the entire use case behind the patch anyway. Also, a different branch of Revisor has been used that uses the patch to anaconda[3]. Since I've got limited bandwidth and disk space, this is a 1 CD distribution. If I had bandwidth and disk space, I might have thrown in a mid-release Everything Spin but I couldn't. Also, given that this is a 1 CD distribution, I've added an install class to anaconda so that it selects the correct groups of packages. Who needs "Office & Productivity" if there's only @core and @base, right? "Base System" FTW! It was fun, it took me 4 koji scratch builds of anaconda and another number of composes to get it "right". Note that despite these changes the installed system will behave just the same as Fedora. In fact, if you look really hard, there's the occasional "Fedora" in there, still -maybe that's because I used fedora-release, which I should be able to do without trademark violations, even though /etc/fedora-release still says "Fedora" ;-) Why bother? Trademark guidelines right now say a derivative distribution cannot use "based on Fedora" -which is bad, and Orange Sombrero is now raising some red flags about it. Work is well on it's way to improve that situation[4] though, for which I thank everyone involved. I hope soon, very soon, derivative's of Fedora pop up everywhere, like mushrooms in autumn. Where is it? http://orangesombrero.org (torrents) On behalf of the entire Orange Sombrero Community (e.g. ~1 person), Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip [1] http://tinyurl.com/49eq5n [2] http://tinyurl.com/47v38s [3] http://tinyurl.com/4le262 [4] http://tinyurl.com/6d3ykf From kwade at redhat.com Tue Sep 23 00:13:28 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:13:28 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 03:10 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret I think people are catching on the word 'secret'. It refers to something intentionally concealed from others view. That was decidedly not the case here. Can we agree that it would be a Good Thing if John made a wider announcement about future release planning meetings on this list, with expected attendees and agenda listed? I reckon it was just a simple oversight, not any secrecy :), and afaic fixing it is simple, and the whole of this thread need not take so long because of secret desires to secrete secrets. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Community Relations Guy Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Sep 23 00:46:41 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:16:41 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48D83C71.1000301@fedoraproject.org> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 03:10 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret > > I think people are catching on the word 'secret'. It refers to > something intentionally concealed from others view. That was decidedly > not the case here. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secret "revealed only to the initiated" pretty much defines what has happened here. "secret" is not a cuss word either. Sometimes you do have to keep things a secret intentionally even in a otherwise open project and as long as the reasons are known or well understood, it is perfectly fine. The problem is specifically because it is unintentional. Instead of hanging on to particular words, the meaning is more clearer when read in context as part of the whole message. > Can we agree that it would be a Good Thing if John made a wider > announcement about future release planning meetings on this list, with > expected attendees and agenda listed? That's all what I asked. > I reckon it was just a simple oversight, not any secrecy :), and afaic > fixing it is simple, and the whole of this thread need not take so long > because of secret desires to secrete secrets. People's complete refusal so far to even accept that there has been an oversight and that they would take steps to fix it, is completely disappointing. That worries me even more than this relatively minor issue. If acknowledged, it is indeed a simple thing to fix and the thread would have ended long back. Rahul From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Sep 23 03:46:24 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:46:24 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48D86690.20702@redhat.com> Karsten 'quaid' Wade said the following on 09/22/2008 05:13 PM Pacific Time: > On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 03:10 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret > > I think people are catching on the word 'secret'. It refers to > something intentionally concealed from others view. That was decidedly > not the case here. Only one person so far on this thread has come this conclusion and has persisted in trying to keep the topic alive. I would be willing to take this concern more seriously if other leaders in the community voiced the same concerns. Raising the same issue on other mailing lists in slightly different contexts does not count :) John From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Sep 23 04:37:43 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:07:43 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D86690.20702@redhat.com> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48D86690.20702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48D87297.4010604@fedoraproject.org> John Poelstra wrote: > Karsten 'quaid' Wade said the following on 09/22/2008 05:13 PM Pacific > Time: >> On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 03:10 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> >>> I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret >> >> I think people are catching on the word 'secret'. It refers to >> something intentionally concealed from others view. That was decidedly >> not the case here. > > Only one person so far on this thread has come this conclusion and has > persisted in trying to keep the topic alive. Which conclusion are you referring to? My concerns are summarized in https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-September/msg00073.html If you disagree with any of that, let me know. I would be willing to take > this concern more seriously if other leaders in the community voiced the > same concerns. It is easy enough to make a decision on it without a popularity vote. Rahul From dev at nigelj.com Tue Sep 23 13:17:17 2008 From: dev at nigelj.com (Nigel Jones) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:17:17 +1200 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections Message-ID: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Hi everyone, With the last slip of the Fedora 10 release I've noticed we are getting dangerously close to Christmas to hold the usual round of post election votes, from what I can tell the following are on the cards: * FAmSCo (Ambassadors) * Fedora Board * Fedora 11 Release Name * FESCo (Engineering) * FLSCo (Translation) It's all technically a matter of timing, there is technically no reason why all (or majority) of those votes can't be held at the exact same time, it might be considered beneficial to hold FAmSCo, FESCo, and FLSCo elections at the same time for instance. It'd appear problems could arise in cases where someone may wish to stand for both *SCo and Board simultaneously and only accept one nomination. Now, I'd assume that this situation would be fairly rare, and in these cases we could have the situation where a candidate says "If I get both nominations, I'll only accept the one for X", my question is, is this acceptable to _you_. >From an administration POV, it'd be best if that's the case there is at least a day or so between the *SCo and Board elections (time for announcements etc to be made), on the other hand, if the above is suitable, they could all be held on the same time period. >From a schedule POV here it is at the moment. Based on Jesse's e-mail to fedora-devel-announce (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-announce/2008-September/msg00015.html) if the slip is approved by FESCo, Fedora 10 will be released on 25 November. This means the next logical dates to hold an election would be between 30th November (Sunday) and 17th December (Wednesday - 8 days before Christmas). This is just over 2 weeks, assuming that F10 doesn't slip again. The other option is holding them over the New Year, however, remember that people in the Southern Hemisphere typically have a large Summer holiday period up until Feb. I'm not here to dictate when you can/can't hold elections though, but I'm looking at the interest of the community and getting the best possible turnout. So, what do you guys think? Are there any reasons why this window may not work? (Major holiday periods etc) - Nigel Jones (P.S. I'm only on F-A-B, so I'd appreciate CC's, although I will try to keep an eye on archives etc, also I realize it's quite early, but it'd mean we can all go into the process knowing when) -- Nigel Jones From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Sep 23 14:14:44 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:14:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <48D86690.20702@redhat.com> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48D86690.20702@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Poelstra wrote: > Karsten 'quaid' Wade said the following on 09/22/2008 05:13 PM Pacific Time: > > On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 03:10 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > > I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret > > > > I think people are catching on the word 'secret'. It refers to > > something intentionally concealed from others view. That was decidedly > > not the case here. > > Only one person so far on this thread has come this conclusion and has > persisted in trying to keep the topic alive. I would be willing to take this > concern more seriously if other leaders in the community voiced the same > concerns. Raising the same issue on other mailing lists in slightly different > contexts does not count :) > No doubt, and the "I'll get the last wordism" has been irksome as well. -Mike From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Tue Sep 23 14:17:23 2008 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:17:23 -0400 Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48D86690.20702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1222179443.4144.11.camel@rosebud> On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 09:14 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Poelstra wrote: > > > Karsten 'quaid' Wade said the following on 09/22/2008 05:13 PM Pacific Time: > > > On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 03:10 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > > > > I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret > > > > > > I think people are catching on the word 'secret'. It refers to > > > something intentionally concealed from others view. That was decidedly > > > not the case here. > > > > Only one person so far on this thread has come this conclusion and has > > persisted in trying to keep the topic alive. I would be willing to take this > > concern more seriously if other leaders in the community voiced the same > > concerns. Raising the same issue on other mailing lists in slightly different > > contexts does not count :) > > > > No doubt, and the "I'll get the last wordism" has been irksome as well. > You would say that! :) -sv From mspevack at redhat.com Tue Sep 23 19:27:26 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:27:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Nigel Jones wrote: > It's all technically a matter of timing, there is technically no > reason why all (or majority) of those votes can't be held at the exact > same time, it might be considered beneficial to hold FAmSCo, FESCo, > and FLSCo elections at the same time for instance. Don't blame me, I voted for Zod. From mspevack at redhat.com Tue Sep 23 19:27:52 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora 10 Beta Release Planning Meeting In-Reply-To: <1222179443.4144.11.camel@rosebud> References: <48D1CD3E.4030305@redhat.com> <48D24E7E.1050909@fedoraproject.org> <20080918130922.GA3802@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3C72C.7010600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919163455.GA4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3D6B4.1070408@fedoraproject.org> <20080919165310.GC4492@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3F35A.5070600@fedoraproject.org> <20080919185109.GB4545@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <48D3FA8C.1060406@fedoraproject.org> <48D40CA5.809@fedoraproject.org> <1221859232.14439.77.camel@luminos.localdomain> <48D41C52.5090308@fedoraproject.org> <1222128808.16394.98.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48D86690.20702@redhat.com> <1222179443.4144.11.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, seth vidal wrote: > On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 09:14 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: >> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Poelstra wrote: >> >>> Karsten 'quaid' Wade said the following on 09/22/2008 05:13 PM Pacific Time: >>>> On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 03:10 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am expressing a concern about a meeting held and organized in secret >>>> >>>> I think people are catching on the word 'secret'. It refers to >>>> something intentionally concealed from others view. That was decidedly >>>> not the case here. >>> >>> Only one person so far on this thread has come this conclusion and has >>> persisted in trying to keep the topic alive. I would be willing to take this >>> concern more seriously if other leaders in the community voiced the same >>> concerns. Raising the same issue on other mailing lists in slightly different >>> contexts does not count :) >>> >> >> No doubt, and the "I'll get the last wordism" has been irksome as well. >> > > You would say that! :) +1 love, davej From inode0 at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 11:17:46 2008 From: inode0 at gmail.com (inode0) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:17:46 -0500 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora Message-ID: In recent days Planet Fedora has been littered with purely partisan political diatribes which project the image of Fedora as if it were an arm of one particular political party in North America. If I want to read the Daily Kos I know where to find it. If I want to read about Fedora activities I would rather not have to wade through and filter out the Daily Kos material on Planet Fedora. Regardless of the associations being projected (it would be equally obnoxious if the posts were of a different persuasion), they seem to me to be presenting an image of this project as something it isn't and I really don't care to be bombarded with discussions about macro economic blame theories or arguments about whether one candidate should be impeached or not on Planet Fedora. While I didn't agree with the board's actions to quash discussion of the GPL on the fedora mailing list I find the incongruity between that and Fedora's willingness to syndicate political rants on Planet Fedora stark. If I as a Fedora ambassador am expected to read Planet Fedora and if Fedora would like me to encourage other ambassadors (and others in general for that matter) to read Planet Fedora I would encourage you to consider facilitating a feed that doesn't contain political messages that are irrelevant to the Fedora project or at least in some way discourage them. These do not in any way promote Fedora and most likely will alienate people from the Fedora project for no good reason. John From rjones at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 11:33:06 2008 From: rjones at redhat.com (Richard W.M. Jones) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:33:06 +0100 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080924113306.GA14449@amd.home.annexia.org> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 06:17:46AM -0500, inode0 wrote: > In recent days Planet Fedora has been littered with purely partisan > political diatribes which project the image of Fedora as if it were an > arm of one particular political party in North America. Not sure about 'littered' ... I could only count two political postings on the current page. Rich. -- Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat http://et.redhat.com/~rjones virt-p2v converts physical machines to virtual machines. Boot with a live CD or over the network (PXE) and turn machines into Xen guests. http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-p2v From gnomeuser at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 11:37:44 2008 From: gnomeuser at gmail.com (David Nielsen) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:37:44 +0200 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1dedbbfc0809240437k4c3968d4q998e931eec1c41d8@mail.gmail.com> 2008/9/24 inode0 > In recent days Planet Fedora has been littered with purely partisan > political diatribes which project the image of Fedora as if it were an > arm of one particular political party in North America. If I want to > read the Daily Kos I know where to find it. If I want to read about > Fedora activities I would rather not have to wade through and filter > out the Daily Kos material on Planet Fedora. > > Regardless of the associations being projected (it would be equally > obnoxious if the posts were of a different persuasion), they seem to > me to be presenting an image of this project as something it isn't and > I really don't care to be bombarded with discussions about macro > economic blame theories or arguments about whether one candidate > should be impeached or not on Planet Fedora. > > While I didn't agree with the board's actions to quash discussion of > the GPL on the fedora mailing list I find the incongruity between that > and Fedora's willingness to syndicate political rants on Planet Fedora > stark. > > If I as a Fedora ambassador am expected to read Planet Fedora and if > Fedora would like me to encourage other ambassadors (and others in > general for that matter) to read Planet Fedora I would encourage you > to consider facilitating a feed that doesn't contain political > messages that are irrelevant to the Fedora project or at least in some > way discourage them. These do not in any way promote Fedora and most > likely will alienate people from the Fedora project for no good > reason. > > John The planet gives a view into the contributors lives, they have a right to say anything they might feel is important. Please do not try to hamper free speech, it is after all one of the cornerstones of Fedora. - David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luis at tieguy.org Wed Sep 24 11:56:59 2008 From: luis at tieguy.org (Luis Villa) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:56:59 -0400 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> A touch of historical background here: The original goal of planet gnome (the original planet) was to give a glimpse into the personal lives of the developers, primarily for the benefit of other developers. The goal was to know other people, warts and all. The goal was not 'be a gnome news feed'; there were other places for that. From that perspective, the political posts indicate a success, rather than a failure- we know and understand each other better after them (even if we may disagree.) Your email, inode0, suggests you think of it as a news feed which should be free of 'distractions' like politics, and that has never been the historical conception of the planets. That said, it is entirely possible that the planets have outgrown that function- they all have lots more readers now, and often serve as a very public face of the project. They certainly seem to have lots of readers who clearly don't understand the history or goals behind them, and while some occasional education might fix it, it may alternately be an insoluble problem. So it might be appropriate to do as mozilla (apparently?) does and subscribe only specific tags to planet, so that authors have to tag a post as 'planet' or 'mozilla' before it shows up on planet, and they can exclude posts if they want to. I don't think there are speech concerns that way, since people can still speak on their own blogs all they want to- it just doesn't get associated with fedora. I personally would ignore that feed and would want to 'rebuild' a full, unfiltered feed, but maybe that is something the project could also consider providing. Alternately, you could create something like the GNOME 'news' planet: http://news.gnome.org/ which aggregates from various sub-project blogs. The reality is that no one reads that, though, perhaps because, you know, it is boring as hell :) Anyway... I'm not sure that this is really a problem. It might well be, but comparing planet to Kos really isn't a constructive comparison, and betrays some misunderstanding about what planet is (was?) supposed to be and do. Luis On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:17 AM, inode0 wrote: > In recent days Planet Fedora has been littered with purely partisan > political diatribes which project the image of Fedora as if it were an > arm of one particular political party in North America. If I want to > read the Daily Kos I know where to find it. If I want to read about > Fedora activities I would rather not have to wade through and filter > out the Daily Kos material on Planet Fedora. > > Regardless of the associations being projected (it would be equally > obnoxious if the posts were of a different persuasion), they seem to > me to be presenting an image of this project as something it isn't and > I really don't care to be bombarded with discussions about macro > economic blame theories or arguments about whether one candidate > should be impeached or not on Planet Fedora. > > While I didn't agree with the board's actions to quash discussion of > the GPL on the fedora mailing list I find the incongruity between that > and Fedora's willingness to syndicate political rants on Planet Fedora > stark. > > If I as a Fedora ambassador am expected to read Planet Fedora and if > Fedora would like me to encourage other ambassadors (and others in > general for that matter) to read Planet Fedora I would encourage you > to consider facilitating a feed that doesn't contain political > messages that are irrelevant to the Fedora project or at least in some > way discourage them. These do not in any way promote Fedora and most > likely will alienate people from the Fedora project for no good > reason. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > fedora-advisory-board mailing list > fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board > From mspevack at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 12:25:13 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:25:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Luis Villa wrote: > The original goal of planet gnome (the original planet) was to give a > glimpse into the personal lives of the developers, primarily for the > benefit of other developers. The goal was to know other people, warts > and all. The goal was not 'be a gnome news feed'; there were other > places for that. Well, as the writer of the "Planet Fedora" beat for Fedora Weekly News, I can assure you that I won't be including any posts about non-Fedora politics in Fedora Weekly News. However, if someone has a juicy Fedora tabloid scandal, like: "Jesse Keating's two-year-old caught using OS X", I'd be happy to put that in. :D --Max From stickster at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:45:51 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:45:51 -0400 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1222267551.21834.59.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 14:25 +0200, Max Spevack wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Luis Villa wrote: > > > The original goal of planet gnome (the original planet) was to give a > > glimpse into the personal lives of the developers, primarily for the > > benefit of other developers. The goal was to know other people, warts > > and all. The goal was not 'be a gnome news feed'; there were other > > places for that. > > Well, as the writer of the "Planet Fedora" beat for Fedora Weekly News, > I can assure you that I won't be including any posts about non-Fedora > politics in Fedora Weekly News. > > However, if someone has a juicy Fedora tabloid scandal, like: "Jesse > Keating's two-year-old caught using OS X", I'd be happy to put that in. > > :D Now *that's* the kind of news *I* tune into the Planet to read. Seriously, I don't see this as a problem. We only ask (or require) that people not put content in Planet-hosted blog entries that creates a legal risk for the Fedora Project. Keeping your posts relevant to Fedora is a nice plus, but honestly not a requirement. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 15:09:25 2008 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:09:25 -0700 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1222268965.4108.90.camel@luminos.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 14:25 +0200, Max Spevack wrote: > > However, if someone has a juicy Fedora tabloid scandal, like: "Jesse > Keating's two-year-old caught using OS X", I'd be happy to put that > in. If you look closer, he's attempting to install Fedora 10 Beta into parallels on OSX, hitting a test coverage we often miss. Unlike those other guys, we're actually trying to inter-operate (: -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Wed Sep 24 15:19:35 2008 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:19:35 -0400 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: <1222268965.4108.90.camel@luminos.localdomain> References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> <1222268965.4108.90.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: <1222269575.4144.62.camel@rosebud> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 08:09 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 14:25 +0200, Max Spevack wrote: > > > > However, if someone has a juicy Fedora tabloid scandal, like: "Jesse > > Keating's two-year-old caught using OS X", I'd be happy to put that > > in. > > If you look closer, he's attempting to install Fedora 10 Beta into > parallels on OSX, hitting a test coverage we often miss. Unlike those > other guys, we're actually trying to inter-operate (: > I believe the french called people who 'interoperated' with the enemy 'collaborators'. :) (in case anyone missed it - I'm JOKING) -sv From inode0 at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 15:24:30 2008 From: inode0 at gmail.com (inode0) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:24:30 -0500 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Max Spevack wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Luis Villa wrote: > >> The original goal of planet gnome (the original planet) was to give a >> glimpse into the personal lives of the developers, primarily for the benefit >> of other developers. The goal was to know other people, warts and all. The >> goal was not 'be a gnome news feed'; there were other places for that. Ok, I think that is a fair point but I also think we might be encouraging some people to subscribe to it without that context being known to them. > Well, as the writer of the "Planet Fedora" beat for Fedora Weekly News, I > can assure you that I won't be including any posts about non-Fedora politics > in Fedora Weekly News. An RSS feed of FWN would be perfect actually for the sort of user I'm thinking about. Does one exist now that I just don't know about or would that be a bad idea for other reasons? John From luis at tieguy.org Wed Sep 24 15:35:59 2008 From: luis at tieguy.org (Luis Villa) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:35:59 -0400 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2cb10c440809240835v441175c0g2ddb43d47a7190fb@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:24 AM, inode0 wrote: > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Max Spevack wrote: >> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Luis Villa wrote: >> >>> The original goal of planet gnome (the original planet) was to give a >>> glimpse into the personal lives of the developers, primarily for the benefit >>> of other developers. The goal was to know other people, warts and all. The >>> goal was not 'be a gnome news feed'; there were other places for that. > > Ok, I think that is a fair point but I also think we might be > encouraging some people to subscribe to it without that context being > known to them. Yeah, that's a very fair problem. >> Well, as the writer of the "Planet Fedora" beat for Fedora Weekly News, I >> can assure you that I won't be including any posts about non-Fedora politics >> in Fedora Weekly News. > > An RSS feed of FWN would be perfect actually for the sort of user I'm > thinking about. Does one exist now that I just don't know about or > would that be a bad idea for other reasons? FWN + other Fedora news sources (perhaps as news.fp.o?) would be terrific. Luis From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 16:06:22 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:06:22 -0800 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910809240906u3787021cnfc50c3f26cf8db4@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 4:25 AM, Max Spevack wrote: > However, if someone has a juicy Fedora tabloid scandal, like: "Jesse > Keating's two-year-old caught using OS X", I'd be happy to put that in. I actually want to see the release notes for F10 come with a set of still images showing Jesse's kid doing the steps of a Fedora install, including the "get a cup of coffee" step. -jef"Jesse started it, its only fair that we force him to take the idea to its obvious conclusion"spaleta From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Sep 24 17:21:36 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:51:36 +0530 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: <2cb10c440809240835v441175c0g2ddb43d47a7190fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> <2cb10c440809240835v441175c0g2ddb43d47a7190fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48DA7720.30508@fedoraproject.org> Luis Villa wrote: > FWN + other Fedora news sources (perhaps as news.fp.o?) would be terrific. news.fp.o is getting ready. https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/178 Rahul From matt at domsch.com Wed Sep 24 18:22:41 2008 From: matt at domsch.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:22:41 -0500 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Message-ID: <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 01:17:17AM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > Hi everyone, > > With the last slip of the Fedora 10 release I've noticed we are getting > dangerously close to Christmas to hold the usual round of post election > votes, from what I can tell the following are on the cards: > > * FAmSCo (Ambassadors) > * Fedora Board > * Fedora 11 Release Name > * FESCo (Engineering) > * FLSCo (Translation) > > It's all technically a matter of timing, there is technically no reason > why all (or majority) of those votes can't be held at the exact same > time, it might be considered beneficial to hold FAmSCo, FESCo, and FLSCo > elections at the same time for instance. I like the idea of multiple elections at the same time. In my experience, such increases voter turnout (there's more to gain/lose at one time), while decreasing voter burnout ("another election? didn't I just do that last week?"). > It'd appear problems could arise in cases where someone may wish to > stand for both *SCo and Board simultaneously and only accept one > nomination. > > Now, I'd assume that this situation would be fairly rare, and in these > cases we could have the situation where a candidate says "If I get both > nominations, I'll only accept the one for X", my question is, is this > acceptable to _you_. To me, yes. > > >From an administration POV, it'd be best if that's the case there is at > least a day or so between the *SCo and Board elections (time for > announcements etc to be made), on the other hand, if the above is > suitable, they could all be held on the same time period. I'd say do it all at once. > > >From a schedule POV here it is at the moment. > > Based on Jesse's e-mail to fedora-devel-announce > (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-announce/2008-September/msg00015.html) if the slip is approved by FESCo, Fedora 10 will be released on 25 November. > > This means the next logical dates to hold an election would be between > 30th November (Sunday) and 17th December (Wednesday - 8 days before > Christmas). This is just over 2 weeks, assuming that F10 doesn't slip > again. The other option is holding them over the New Year, however, > remember that people in the Southern Hemisphere typically have a large > Summer holiday period up until Feb. If the release dates hold (and I hope they do), allowing the election to run including the weekend of FUDCon would be useful too - let people undecided but in attendance be able to talk to people face-to-face. Avoiding the holidays as much as possible is "a good thing". To many distractions from our favorite passtime to remember to actually vote. -Matt From notting at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 18:26:11 2008 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:26:11 -0400 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> Message-ID: <20080924182610.GA20441@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Matt Domsch (matt at domsch.com) said: > I like the idea of multiple elections at the same time. In my > experience, such increases voter turnout (there's more to gain/lose at > one time), while decreasing voter burnout ("another election? didn't > I just do that last week?"). Definitely. Bonus points for getting them all on one (butterfly!) ballot. Bill From gdk at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 18:29:26 2008 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg Dekoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Matt Domsch wrote: > I like the idea of multiple elections at the same time. In my > experience, such increases voter turnout (there's more to gain/lose at > one time), while decreasing voter burnout ("another election? didn't > I just do that last week?"). +1. --g From stickster at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 20:25:57 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:25:57 -0400 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> Message-ID: <1222287957.16823.58.camel@victoria-eth> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 13:22 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote: > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 01:17:17AM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > With the last slip of the Fedora 10 release I've noticed we are getting > > dangerously close to Christmas to hold the usual round of post election > > votes, from what I can tell the following are on the cards: > > > > * FAmSCo (Ambassadors) > > * Fedora Board > > * Fedora 11 Release Name > > * FESCo (Engineering) > > * FLSCo (Translation) > > > > It's all technically a matter of timing, there is technically no reason > > why all (or majority) of those votes can't be held at the exact same > > time, it might be considered beneficial to hold FAmSCo, FESCo, and FLSCo > > elections at the same time for instance. > > I like the idea of multiple elections at the same time. In my > experience, such increases voter turnout (there's more to gain/lose at > one time), while decreasing voter burnout ("another election? didn't > I just do that last week?"). +1 on this. > > It'd appear problems could arise in cases where someone may wish to > > stand for both *SCo and Board simultaneously and only accept one > > nomination. > > > > Now, I'd assume that this situation would be fairly rare, and in these > > cases we could have the situation where a candidate says "If I get both > > nominations, I'll only accept the one for X", my question is, is this > > acceptable to _you_. > > To me, yes. I'd prefer that people not look at multiple elections as a way to hedge bets. Not that anyone has ever given me that impression of course! But I'd much rather keep the election as simple and light on regulation as possible, so I'm not about to suggest any additional rules based on my personal feelings. > > >From an administration POV, it'd be best if that's the case there is at > > least a day or so between the *SCo and Board elections (time for > > announcements etc to be made), on the other hand, if the above is > > suitable, they could all be held on the same time period. > > I'd say do it all at once. I like the idea of all the elections in a single balloting process; get it all over at one time, and have a decently sized time period for the whole thing, 10-14 days. > > >From a schedule POV here it is at the moment. > > > > Based on Jesse's e-mail to fedora-devel-announce > > (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-announce/2008-September/msg00015.html) if the slip is approved by FESCo, Fedora 10 will be released on 25 November. > > > > This means the next logical dates to hold an election would be between > > 30th November (Sunday) and 17th December (Wednesday - 8 days before > > Christmas). This is just over 2 weeks, assuming that F10 doesn't slip > > again. The other option is holding them over the New Year, however, > > remember that people in the Southern Hemisphere typically have a large > > Summer holiday period up until Feb. > > If the release dates hold (and I hope they do), allowing the election > to run including the weekend of FUDCon would be useful too - let > people undecided but in attendance be able to talk to people > face-to-face. This is a great idea. And keep in mind that this doesn't disadvantage people who aren't at FUDCon -- they can always get attendees to act as proxies for their probing questions. > Avoiding the holidays as much as possible is "a good thing". To many > distractions from our favorite passtime to remember to actually vote. :-) -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 21:08:44 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:08:44 -0700 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1222290524.16394.301.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 07:56 -0400, Luis Villa wrote: > So it might be appropriate to do as mozilla (apparently?) does and > subscribe only specific tags to planet, so that authors have to tag a > post as 'planet' or 'mozilla' before it shows up on planet, and they > can exclude posts if they want to. That in fact is what I did myself when I moved to iquaid.org. I found myself self-censoring content on my blog because I didn't want it to become part of the Fedora planet feed. I agree with the original mission you gave, and I do think it is a bit of a loss that you all don't read about my chickens, homeschool science experiments, and the like. But with a Planet that big, there have to be some group-level filters. I think using tags/categories is the best method, so one isn't stifled but can control the firehose. > I don't think there are speech > concerns that way, since people can still speak on their own blogs all > they want to- it just doesn't get associated with fedora. I personally > would ignore that feed and would want to 'rebuild' a full, unfiltered > feed, but maybe that is something the project could also consider > providing. Alternately, you could create something like the GNOME > 'news' planet: http://news.gnome.org/ which aggregates from various > sub-project blogs. The reality is that no one reads that, though, > perhaps because, you know, it is boring as hell :) I just figure if someone likes me enough personally, I'll get added by tag or full feed to their personal read. I want my Fedora-related stuff on the Fedora planet. Maybe I am looking at it more like a news source, sort of. Another way to look at it is, when there are only twenty people in the room, it is feasible for everyone to quiet down so one person can have their Big Say. Even when broken into smaller groups. When the number of people and room gets bigger, it becomes necessary to limit a bit of what and how long someone can speak, so they don't become dominant. I think it is more a factor of growth and scope. What I would be interested to see instead is some sub-planets that *do* pull potentially wider feeds, but by group. We could have an "all Docs" or "all Board members" that gives a more personal view. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 21:11:46 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:11:46 -0800 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: <1222290524.16394.301.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> <1222290524.16394.301.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <604aa7910809241411x5e68b6f2m2e02b58391b85f84@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > I agree with the original mission you gave, and I do think it is a bit > of a loss that you all don't read about my chickens, homeschool science > experiments, and the like. But with a Planet that big, there have to be > some group-level filters. I think using tags/categories is the best > method, so one isn't stifled but can control the firehose. Chickens! And homeschool science experiments! You should live in Alaska! -jef From kwade at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 21:15:22 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:15:22 -0700 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809241411x5e68b6f2m2e02b58391b85f84@mail.gmail.com> References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> <1222290524.16394.301.camel@calliope.phig.org> <604aa7910809241411x5e68b6f2m2e02b58391b85f84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1222290922.16394.306.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 13:11 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > I agree with the original mission you gave, and I do think it is a bit > > of a loss that you all don't read about my chickens, homeschool science > > experiments, and the like. But with a Planet that big, there have to be > > some group-level filters. I think using tags/categories is the best > > method, so one isn't stifled but can control the firehose. > > Chickens! And homeschool science experiments! You should live in Alaska! I'm afraid it's going to _be_ like Alaska around here with the current economical, political, and global climate. (Did I just ironically circle this thread?) -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davej at redhat.com Wed Sep 24 22:17:28 2008 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:17:28 -0400 Subject: Dear Planet Fedora In-Reply-To: <1222290922.16394.306.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <2cb10c440809240456u4afb9f36g94c2dbe744c3d9de@mail.gmail.com> <1222290524.16394.301.camel@calliope.phig.org> <604aa7910809241411x5e68b6f2m2e02b58391b85f84@mail.gmail.com> <1222290922.16394.306.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20080924221728.GA15873@redhat.com> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 02:15:22PM -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 13:11 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > I agree with the original mission you gave, and I do think it is a bit > > > of a loss that you all don't read about my chickens, homeschool science > > > experiments, and the like. But with a Planet that big, there have to be > > > some group-level filters. I think using tags/categories is the best > > > method, so one isn't stifled but can control the firehose. > > > > Chickens! And homeschool science experiments! You should live in Alaska! > > I'm afraid it's going to _be_ like Alaska around here with the current > economical, political, and global climate. > > (Did I just ironically circle this thread?) Also, I hear you can see Moscow from Jef's house. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Sep 25 18:44:41 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:44:41 -0700 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2008-SEP-23 Message-ID: <48DBDC19.8090509@redhat.com> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-09-23 == Roll Call == Attendees: John Poelstra, Matt Domsch, Paul Frields, Karsten Wade, Jef Spaleta, Bill Nottingham, Chris Tyler, Seth Vidal, Spot Callaway, Jesse Keating Regrets: Harald Hoyer == Follow-up to Previous Business == === Codecs (2008-09-16) === * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GStreamer_dependencies_in_RPM * https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438225 * Seth Vidal is going to meet with Richard Hughes to make sure a EULA associated with a specific package or codec works correctly with PackageKit and associated packages * '''UPDATE 2008-09-23''' ** RESOLUTIONS *# Fedora will '''only''' handle packages with EULAs through PackageKit *# Fedora does not foresee ever having packages in the official Fedora repos that contain EULAs ** Remaining questions for follow-up: *# What is the regular work flow for codecs in F10 when someone goes to play a media file with a gstreamer enabled player? *# What will be the default behavior for a default installation? *# Can we confirm that we are no longer prompting for any specific vendor? ** Spot to track down answers to the remaining questions === Trademark Update (2008-09-16) === * Board wants to maintain a good hold on how the primary Fedora trademark is used while provides lots of latitude for secondary mark * Process of legal review continues and appears to be moving forward favorably * trademark guidelines draft has recently been updated and can be found here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/NewTrademarkGuidelines * '''UPDATE 2008-09-23''' ** Paul Frields has a meeting with with Red Hat legal this week From kwade at redhat.com Fri Sep 26 14:00:50 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:00:50 -0700 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <1222287957.16823.58.camel@victoria-eth> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> <1222287957.16823.58.camel@victoria-eth> Message-ID: <1222437650.31565.18.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 16:25 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 13:22 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 01:17:17AM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > I like the idea of multiple elections at the same time. In my > > experience, such increases voter turnout (there's more to gain/lose at > > one time), while decreasing voter burnout ("another election? didn't > > I just do that last week?"). > > +1 on this. +1 > > > It'd appear problems could arise in cases where someone may wish to > > > stand for both *SCo and Board simultaneously and only accept one > > > nomination. > > > > > > Now, I'd assume that this situation would be fairly rare, and in these > > > cases we could have the situation where a candidate says "If I get both > > > nominations, I'll only accept the one for X", my question is, is this > > > acceptable to _you_. > > > > To me, yes. > > I'd prefer that people not look at multiple elections as a way to hedge > bets. Not that anyone has ever given me that impression of course! But > I'd much rather keep the election as simple and light on regulation as > possible, so I'm not about to suggest any additional rules based on my > personal feelings. Sorry, is it *policy* that a person cannot be on the Board and FESCo at the same time, or just *practice*? If policy, we do need to make a rule around how they interact. I don't mind someone standing for both elections at the same time, and they should state in advance what they'll do if they get elected to both. But I've personally never considered it to be a problem to be in both groups. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwboyer at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 14:31:21 2008 From: jwboyer at gmail.com (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:31:21 -0400 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <1222437650.31565.18.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> <1222287957.16823.58.camel@victoria-eth> <1222437650.31565.18.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20080926143121.GB5687@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 07:00:50AM -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > >On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 16:25 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 13:22 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote: >> > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 01:17:17AM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: >> > > Hi everyone, >> > > >> > >> > I like the idea of multiple elections at the same time. In my >> > experience, such increases voter turnout (there's more to gain/lose at >> > one time), while decreasing voter burnout ("another election? didn't >> > I just do that last week?"). >> >> +1 on this. > >+1 > >> > > It'd appear problems could arise in cases where someone may wish to >> > > stand for both *SCo and Board simultaneously and only accept one >> > > nomination. >> > > >> > > Now, I'd assume that this situation would be fairly rare, and in these >> > > cases we could have the situation where a candidate says "If I get both >> > > nominations, I'll only accept the one for X", my question is, is this >> > > acceptable to _you_. >> > >> > To me, yes. >> >> I'd prefer that people not look at multiple elections as a way to hedge >> bets. Not that anyone has ever given me that impression of course! But >> I'd much rather keep the election as simple and light on regulation as >> possible, so I'm not about to suggest any additional rules based on my >> personal feelings. > >Sorry, is it *policy* that a person cannot be on the Board and FESCo at >the same time, or just *practice*? No policy on it at all. History shows that we've had several instances of that situation already. Recently some people have choosen not to run for FESCo if elected to the Board, but that is personal preference. The only reason this wasn't highlighted before is because we've never run the elections at the same time. So the choice was made before the FESCo election even started and we didn't really have the "hm... I got elected to both and I only want to do one" situation. josh From stickster at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 15:24:33 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:24:33 -0400 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <20080926143121.GB5687@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> <1222287957.16823.58.camel@victoria-eth> <1222437650.31565.18.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080926143121.GB5687@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20080926152433.GC21441@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:31:21AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 07:00:50AM -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > >On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 16:25 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> I'd prefer that people not look at multiple elections as a way to hedge > >> bets. Not that anyone has ever given me that impression of course! But > >> I'd much rather keep the election as simple and light on regulation as > >> possible, so I'm not about to suggest any additional rules based on my > >> personal feelings. > > > >Sorry, is it *policy* that a person cannot be on the Board and FESCo at > >the same time, or just *practice*? > > No policy on it at all. History shows that we've had several instances of > that situation already. Recently some people have choosen not to run for > FESCo if elected to the Board, but that is personal preference. > > The only reason this wasn't highlighted before is because we've never run > the elections at the same time. So the choice was made before the FESCo > election even started and we didn't really have the "hm... I got elected to > both and I only want to do one" situation. Right. And to reiterate, this is more a fuzzy feeling on my part and not something I would want to pursue regulating. I think people want to know as voters -- I know I do -- that the person I'm electing has the intention of following through in that position, regardless of any other commitments. And I'm not implying that anyone would do any differently than that. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Sat Sep 27 09:29:22 2008 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:29:22 +0200 Subject: Planning Post F10 Elections In-Reply-To: <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> References: <1222175837.3367.84.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080924182240.GB15811@domsch.com> Message-ID: 2008/9/24 Matt Domsch : > I like the idea of multiple elections at the same time. In my > experience, such increases voter turnout (there's more to gain/lose at > one time), while decreasing voter burnout ("another election? didn't > I just do that last week?"). Yeah, it could works. In my past experience give a slot at time could result in a slow community processes. Another key point is that with multiple election we will able to have steering committees working on the same working frequency and it could be a benefit for everyone, community first. >> >From an administration POV, it'd be best if that's the case there is at >> least a day or so between the *SCo and Board elections (time for >> announcements etc to be made), on the other hand, if the above is >> suitable, they could all be held on the same time period. > > I'd say do it all at once. + 1 2008/9/23 Nigel Jones : >> Now, I'd assume that this situation would be fairly rare, and in these >> cases we could have the situation where a candidate says "If I get both >> nominations, I'll only accept the one for X", my question is, is this >> acceptable to _you_. Yes, there aren't problem, and it could sounds reasonable. >From an Ambassadors point of view there aren't problem on the election schedule. FY and Release Schedule are indipendent each other. Whoever will be elected in those election would start work on FAmSCo budget in February, with Q1 and a new FY (the Q4 budget will be closed in December 1st). Moreover new FAmSCo will start working on Membership, Training and Events mentoring (etc) when it will go in charge. I want only to ask to make it in a period out of "Christmas", just because it would be risky (we need all the community to hold such important activity). Regards Francesco Ugolini From stickster at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 12:47:46 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:47:46 -0400 Subject: Downstream remix announcements Message-ID: <20080927124746.GF19471@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> The upcoming secondary mark makes it possible for many downstream Fedora remix projects to drive interest in Fedora as the upstream and therefore they should be encouraged. We want to encourage remixes of Fedora to help spread free software and awareness of the project, which is why I embarked several months ago on a project to reform our trademark guidelines. We also need to consider remixes in the context of Fedora's mission of 100% free software, and any liabliity issues for the Fedora Project and our primary sponsor, Red Hat. I've asked the Board to see whether any sort of policy is needed on downstream Fedora remix project announcements in official Fedora channels like the low-traffic announce lists. As always we encourage community input and participation in the discussion. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 14:06:45 2008 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?IlNhbmthcnNoYW4gKOCmuOCmmeCnjeCmleCmsOCnjeCmt+Cmoyki?=) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:36:45 +0530 Subject: Downstream remix announcements In-Reply-To: <20080927124746.GF19471@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <20080927124746.GF19471@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <48DF8F75.1020904@gmail.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > I've asked the Board to see whether any sort of policy is needed on > downstream Fedora remix project announcements in official Fedora > channels like the low-traffic announce lists. As always we encourage > community input and participation in the discussion. Do we anticipate a need for a policy for announcements ? As in, do we anticipate specific corner cases ? ~sankarshan -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work From kwade at redhat.com Mon Sep 29 13:18:50 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 06:18:50 -0700 Subject: Downstream remix announcements In-Reply-To: <48DF8F75.1020904@gmail.com> References: <20080927124746.GF19471@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48DF8F75.1020904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1222694330.745.59.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 19:36 +0530, "Sankarshan (????????)" wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I've asked the Board to see whether any sort of policy is needed on > > downstream Fedora remix project announcements in official Fedora > > channels like the low-traffic announce lists. As always we encourage > > community input and participation in the discussion. > > Do we anticipate a need for a policy for announcements ? As in, do we > anticipate specific corner cases ? I think the concern is simply, the remixes and communities around them are likely to grow with the simplification of the trademark guidelines. Having every downstream remix announce to f-announce-l might overwhelm the low-volume list. Another way to look at it is, should we allow RHEL and CentOS release announcements on f-announce-l? Where do we draw the line? Currently, I'm liking the idea of doing a remix-specific announcement list and asking some group to send the occasional email to f-announce-l highlighting a few recent remixes with a pointer to more. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bkearney at redhat.com Mon Sep 29 13:18:26 2008 From: bkearney at redhat.com (Bryan Kearney) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:18:26 -0400 Subject: Downstream remix announcements In-Reply-To: <1222694330.745.59.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <20080927124746.GF19471@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48DF8F75.1020904@gmail.com> <1222694330.745.59.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48E0D5A2.6070607@redhat.com> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 19:36 +0530, "Sankarshan (????????)" wrote: >> Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>> I've asked the Board to see whether any sort of policy is needed on >>> downstream Fedora remix project announcements in official Fedora >>> channels like the low-traffic announce lists. As always we encourage >>> community input and participation in the discussion. >> Do we anticipate a need for a policy for announcements ? As in, do we >> anticipate specific corner cases ? > > I think the concern is simply, the remixes and communities around them > are likely to grow with the simplification of the trademark guidelines. > Having every downstream remix announce to f-announce-l might overwhelm > the low-volume list. Another way to look at it is, should we allow RHEL > and CentOS release announcements on f-announce-l? Where do we draw the > line? > > Currently, I'm liking the idea of doing a remix-specific announcement > list and asking some group to send the occasional email to f-announce-l > highlighting a few recent remixes with a pointer to more. I dont know if I like another mailing list. Can we make a policy for having them included in the Fedora Weekly news? -- bk From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 29 13:24:30 2008 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:24:30 -0400 Subject: Downstream remix announcements In-Reply-To: <1222694330.745.59.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <20080927124746.GF19471@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48DF8F75.1020904@gmail.com> <1222694330.745.59.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1222694670.20082.30.camel@rosebud> On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 06:18 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 19:36 +0530, "Sankarshan (????????)" wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > I've asked the Board to see whether any sort of policy is needed on > > > downstream Fedora remix project announcements in official Fedora > > > channels like the low-traffic announce lists. As always we encourage > > > community input and participation in the discussion. > > > > Do we anticipate a need for a policy for announcements ? As in, do we > > anticipate specific corner cases ? > > I think the concern is simply, the remixes and communities around them > are likely to grow with the simplification of the trademark guidelines. > Having every downstream remix announce to f-announce-l might overwhelm > the low-volume list. Another way to look at it is, should we allow RHEL > and CentOS release announcements on f-announce-l? Where do we draw the > line? > oh cmon. it 'might overwhelm the low-volume list'? Why don't we see what happens? If we find we get hundreds of posts due to the dramatic variety of things people are doing with fedora, well, then I'll cry a thousand tears and we can address it but taking preemptive action for something seems kneejerk. -sv From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 29 13:26:48 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:56:48 +0530 Subject: Downstream remix announcements In-Reply-To: <1222694670.20082.30.camel@rosebud> References: <20080927124746.GF19471@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48DF8F75.1020904@gmail.com> <1222694330.745.59.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1222694670.20082.30.camel@rosebud> Message-ID: <48E0D798.5090305@fedoraproject.org> seth vidal wrote: > On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 06:18 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: >> On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 19:36 +0530, "Sankarshan (????????)" wrote: >>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>> >>>> I've asked the Board to see whether any sort of policy is needed on >>>> downstream Fedora remix project announcements in official Fedora >>>> channels like the low-traffic announce lists. As always we encourage >>>> community input and participation in the discussion. >>> Do we anticipate a need for a policy for announcements ? As in, do we >>> anticipate specific corner cases ? >> I think the concern is simply, the remixes and communities around them >> are likely to grow with the simplification of the trademark guidelines. >> Having every downstream remix announce to f-announce-l might overwhelm >> the low-volume list. Another way to look at it is, should we allow RHEL >> and CentOS release announcements on f-announce-l? Where do we draw the >> line? >> > > oh cmon. it 'might overwhelm the low-volume list'? Why don't we see what > happens? If we find we get hundreds of posts due to the dramatic variety > of things people are doing with fedora, well, then I'll cry a thousand > tears and we can address it but taking preemptive action for something > seems kneejerk. Well, I send a announcement three or so days back and haven't seen it approved yet in fedora-announce list. Rahul From jarod at redhat.com Mon Sep 29 18:38:30 2008 From: jarod at redhat.com (Jarod Wilson) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:38:30 -0400 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo Message-ID: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> Hey FAB, Would like to bring this thread... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-September/msg02563.html ...to your attention. Basically, there's a PackageKit-based Codeina replacement for installing missing codecs, but whether or not to continue to refer people to Fluendo if a suitable codec isn't found by PackageKit is a policy decision the board ought to be making. Thanks much, -- Jarod Wilson jarod at redhat.com From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Sep 29 18:51:37 2008 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:51:37 -0700 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo In-Reply-To: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> References: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1222714297.23360.1.camel@luminos.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 14:38 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > Basically, there's a PackageKit-based Codeina replacement for installing > missing codecs, but whether or not to continue to refer people to Fluendo if a > suitable codec isn't found by PackageKit is a policy decision the board ought > to be making. I'm pretty sure the board did make that decision. Whether or not there is room for our content regarding plugins is an interesting question, and I think there is room before PK goes off and searches for suitable providers. However I'm almost 100% certain that the board voted to remove references to fluendo's store. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonstanley at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 19:04:23 2008 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:04:23 -0400 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo In-Reply-To: <1222714297.23360.1.camel@luminos.localdomain> References: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> <1222714297.23360.1.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Jesse Keating wrote: > Whether or not there is room for our content regarding plugins is an > interesting question, and I think there is room before PK goes off and > searches for suitable providers. However I'm almost 100% certain that > the board voted to remove references to fluendo's store. I'm also nearly certain that the Board voted to remove references to Fluendo, I'll see if I can find the minutes from the meeting where they did so. However, here's my personal opinion on the topic: I'm cool with (and encourage) something saying "hey, you don't have the right codecs to play this, they're non-free, here's why non-free codecs are bad". What I'm *NOT* OK with is directing folks at Fluendo (or any other store) to purchase them, for a few reasons: 1) It creates a "endorsement" from the Fedora project 2) People in certain parts of the world can get the equivalent functionality in free software, legally. Simply because we cannot distribute the free software doesn't mean that it's not out there, and some people (just not including myself) can legally use it. We obviously can't point folks to it, though. From jonstanley at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 19:08:54 2008 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:08:54 -0400 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo In-Reply-To: References: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> <1222714297.23360.1.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Jon Stanley wrote: > I'm also nearly certain that the Board voted to remove references to > Fluendo, I'll see if I can find the minutes from the meeting where > they did so. However, here's my personal opinion on the topic: OK, I was wrong. What was voted on was removing all the codecs that you could pay for, and leaving the gratis MP3 codec in place from my reading of the minutes: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-March/msg00111.html From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 19:32:59 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:32:59 -0800 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo In-Reply-To: References: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> <1222714297.23360.1.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: <604aa7910809291232t3b239bdcx7c907f1b46afa7c4@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Jon Stanley > 1) It creates a "endorsement" from the Fedora project > 2) People in certain parts of the world can get the equivalent > functionality in free software, legally. reason 3) By pointing users to any 3rd party vendor via default system interactions creates an implicit expectation that the material that users are being pointed to does in fact work as advertised and if it does not that there is a process by which this stuff can get fixed. It doesn't matter if we make some hand wavy argument in the textual information that such 3rd party software is not supported...we say that about our own software. If we point people to a 3rd party then we'll have created an expectation that the software hosted by that 3rd party does function with our default configuration. Regardless of other philosophical reasoning associated with reasons 1 and 2... if people were to advocate to have Fedora client system interactions fallback by pointing users to any software space outside of this project's control, I would need those advocates to put forward a reasonable pre-release testing plan and bugfix updating process that this project could rely on with regard to those 3rd party bits. If 3rd party software does not integrate as well, who's on the hook for making sure it does? Surely not our releng team, because they have no direct authority over how the software in those 3rd party vendors is patched or packaged. By pointing people to any particular vendor we create an implicit expectation that the software there will function. If it doesn't for example work with selinux out of the box then our project's developers might not have the access necessary to fix the problem in the 3rd party packaging. I'm not particular thrilled with being put in a position where we are asked to point users to things "over there" if and when those things "over there" don't work as expected and we don't have the access to fix them for our users. -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 20:01:02 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:01:02 -0800 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo In-Reply-To: References: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> <1222714297.23360.1.camel@luminos.localdomain> Message-ID: <604aa7910809291301s8642403n640aa55571a2c650@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jon Stanley > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-March/msg00111.html That vote was prior to the existence of the rpm implementation we have now, which allows for a vendor neutral approach. The vote was done when we were considering whether or not to pull Codeina completely from F9. In April we voted to revert back to F8's situation, nullifying that particular vote from March. You need to read all the minutes from march forward... Codeina has been a nearly perpetual topic. You may need to also read fab discussions and possibly one or more public meeting logs from March onward as well to get full context as to where we are now. In fact, we all (Board members included) may need to refresh how we got here now that we have the new rpm implementation in hand because it differs from how codeina did things. Even if Jesse is right, and there was an explicit prior vote, after the April vote to revert to F8's status quo for F9, the Board may need to reaffirm that it will not be singling out a preferred vendor in PK fallback dialogs that we have now for the F10 timeframe. It's also not clear to me that Fluendo's webshop implementation has been updated to work with the new rpm based approach. if it hasn't this issue may be moot. -jef From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 20:47:40 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:47:40 -0400 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809291301s8642403n640aa55571a2c650@mail.gmail.com> References: <48E120A6.8080602@redhat.com> <1222714297.23360.1.camel@luminos.localdomain> <604aa7910809291301s8642403n640aa55571a2c650@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080929204740.GA10665@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:01:02PM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jon Stanley > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-March/msg00111.html > > That vote was prior to the existence of the rpm implementation we have > now, which allows for a vendor neutral approach. The vote was done > when we were considering whether or not to pull Codeina completely > from F9. In April we voted to revert back to F8's situation, > nullifying that particular vote from March. > > You need to read all the minutes from march forward... Codeina has > been a nearly perpetual topic. You may need to also read fab > discussions and possibly one or more public meeting logs from March > onward as well to get full context as to where we are now. In fact, > we all (Board members included) may need to refresh how we got here > now that we have the new rpm implementation in hand because it differs > from how codeina did things. > > Even if Jesse is right, and there was an explicit prior vote, after > the April vote to revert to F8's status quo for F9, the Board may need > to reaffirm that it will not be singling out a preferred vendor in PK > fallback dialogs that we have now for the F10 timeframe. After having exchanged some email with the developers and Spot, I can tell you this is the case -- that PK does not single out any preferred vendors. It will be up to any third party repository to (1) build their packages against the newer rpm bits, and (2) provide an appropriate *-release package or other route to a working yum repo definition. > It's also not clear to me that Fluendo's webshop implementation has > been updated to work with the new rpm based approach. if it hasn't > this issue may be moot. It may not be, but they will have the exact same chance as any other third party to offer software through a repository. The bits in Fedora will not send users anywhere, including there, preferentially. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 22:51:45 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 04:21:45 +0530 Subject: PackageKit Codeina replacement and Fluendo Message-ID: <78323d480809301551i48112608laa461f792f2c86b1@mail.gmail.com> "Paul W. Frields" wrote > > It may not be, but they will have the exact same chance as any other > third party to offer software through a repository. The bits in > Fedora will not send users anywhere, including there, preferentially. That is fine, but many newbie users will feel better if they are asked to use an Internet Search Engine for 'a suitable phrase',... if they really want to make use of such files. The default messages used in many applications has a wrong psychological impact (on newbies). Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From stickster at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 23:16:16 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:16:16 -0400 Subject: Fedora Board IRC meeting 1800 UTC 2008-10-07 Message-ID: <20080930231616.GB28744@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> he Board is holding its monthly public meeting on Tuesday, 7 October 2008, at 1800 UTC on IRC Freenode. The public is invited to do the following: * Join #fedora-board-meeting to see the Board's conversation. This channel is read-only for non-Board members. * Join #fedora-board-public to discuss topics and post questions. This channel is read/write for everyone. The moderator will direct questions from the #fedora-board-public channel to the Board members at #fedora-board-meeting. This should limit confusion and ensure our logs are useful to everyone. ?The Board has set aside one meeting of each month as a public "town hall" style meeting. We are *still* hoping to hold an audio-based meeting at some point in the near future using some of the new resources being developed by the Infrastructure team. More news on this will be forthcoming. We look forward to seeing you at the meeting. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: