From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 00:52:16 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:52:16 -0400 Subject: Community domain request In-Reply-To: <3161376e0903311244ha0215d5k1d40cfbe39678f8a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3161376e0903311244ha0215d5k1d40cfbe39678f8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090401005216.GH24178@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:44:04PM +0200, Frederic Hornain wrote: > I officially request the following domain name be.fedoracommunity.org for > Belgium. > Thanks for you time and your efforts. Thanks for the request Frederic. I'll see that the Board considers it and gets back to you here quickly. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paul at paulmellors.net Mon Apr 6 13:23:36 2009 From: paul at paulmellors.net (Paul Mellors) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:23:36 +0100 Subject: Community Domain Names - self purchased Message-ID: <49DA0258.8040701@paulmellors.net> Hello I have a domain name that i would like to use as the Fedora UK community website [unless there is already one], i've read the pages on the wiki [local community domain] and wonder what i need to do to get permission to use that domain [fedora-uk.org] and develop a site on it. I'm not aware of a UK community leader that i can contact so i thought i'd email my self, i hope i have the correct mailing list. Thanks for your time Paul Mellors https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Paulmellors From gerold at lugd.org Mon Apr 6 13:44:28 2009 From: gerold at lugd.org (Gerold) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:44:28 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Community Domain Names - self purchased In-Reply-To: <49DA0258.8040701@paulmellors.net> References: <49DA0258.8040701@paulmellors.net> Message-ID: <2957.217.162.12.42.1239025468.squirrel@www.gbc.net> Hi Paul (and also every other requester), please allow one question: Why you don't use the official Fedora-Page? Is there anything you miss there? If yes, why we put our strength together, ask the infrastructure team to fullfill our needs, because we are the Community for which the fedora wiki is build for ... Or does every country needs to discover the wheel again? Regards Gerold > Hello > > I have a domain name that i would like to use as the Fedora UK community > website [unless there is already one], i've read the pages on the wiki > [local community domain] and wonder what i need to do to get permission > to use that domain [fedora-uk.org] and develop a site on it. > > I'm not aware of a UK community leader that i can contact so i thought > i'd email my self, i hope i have the correct mailing list. > > Thanks for your time > > Paul Mellors > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Paulmellors > > > _______________________________________________ > fedora-advisory-board mailing list > fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board > From stickster at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 13:51:56 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:51:56 -0400 Subject: Community Domain Names - self purchased In-Reply-To: <49DA0258.8040701@paulmellors.net> References: <49DA0258.8040701@paulmellors.net> Message-ID: <20090406135156.GA4550@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 02:23:36PM +0100, Paul Mellors wrote: > Hello > > I have a domain name that i would like to use as the Fedora UK community > website [unless there is already one], i've read the pages on the wiki > [local community domain] and wonder what i need to do to get permission > to use that domain [fedora-uk.org] and develop a site on it. > > I'm not aware of a UK community leader that i can contact so i thought > i'd email my self, i hope i have the correct mailing list. > > Thanks for your time We can provide a uk.fedoracommunity.org domain for you, which is a no-cost option. If you would prefer to buy your own domain in addition to the hosting, you will need a trademark license agreement. To do that, the Board would like to have information on what exactly will be provided at the site. I'd like to invite you to expand on your plans for the site, including: * The team that will maintain the site, and their current role(s) in the Fedora community * What applications will be available at the site (static pages? blogroll? etc.) This information is something the Board is now requesting for domain applications. I've added these bullets to the [[Local community domains]] page to reflect the change. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 19:12:40 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:12:40 -0400 Subject: Community domain request In-Reply-To: <3161376e0903311244ha0215d5k1d40cfbe39678f8a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3161376e0903311244ha0215d5k1d40cfbe39678f8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090406191240.GI4550@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:44:04PM +0200, Frederic Hornain wrote: > Dear *, > > I officially request the following domain name be.fedoracommunity.org for > Belgium. > Thanks for you time and your efforts. Hello Frederic, I hope you'll forgive me for copying and pasting from a previous email sent to someone else this morning. The Board would like to have information on what exactly will be provided at community sites, before voting on acceptance and licensing. I'd like to invite you to expand on your plans for the site, including: * The team that will maintain the site, and their current role(s) in the Fedora community * What applications will be available at the site (static pages? blogroll? etc.) This information is something the Board is now requesting for domain applications. I've added these bullets to the [[Local community domains]] page to reflect the change. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 16:40:20 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 22:10:20 +0530 Subject: Giving DJVU a push Message-ID: <78323d480904070940g41340355q2016a955a4371488@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 'djvu' is an excellent format for documentation, images and lots more. (See http://djvu.org/resources/ for more). I think we should consider 1. Including a huge set of documentation in djvu format from Fedora 11 onwards (at least). Packages for the same seem relevant. 2. Having the djvu plugins installed by default in all web browsers 3. Permit booklets to be created from wiki documentation in djvu format (at least for people with FAS account) Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknbgxgACgkQunMISzvdfU6VuwCfQb0hmcsJKF3tiXZIHRxZKClc pBUAoJxjYJ7CRM02bBH/pN+ivCo+c4Iy =AV/5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 14:41:47 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 10:41:47 -0400 Subject: Board IRC meeting update Message-ID: <20090408144147.GW23842@localhost.localdomain> It was suggested to me that we change the name of the channel for gathering questions for the Fedora Board's IRC meetings to #fedora-board-questions, because #fedora-board-public seems to imply that the other channel, #fedora-board-meeting, isn't public, which isn't the case. I made that change today, and also updated the wiki page on Board IRC meetings to reflect the change. The next announcement of a public IRC meeting will contain updated information as well. (Or if it doesn't someone should call me on it!) ;-) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board_public_IRC_meetings -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Apr 10 01:35:01 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 18:35:01 -0700 Subject: Fedora Board Meeting Recap 2009-04-07 Message-ID: <49DEA245.7030108@redhat.com> Recap and full IRC transcripts for the moderated and public channels are here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-04-07 Please make corrections and clarifications to the wiki page. == QA Briefing == James Laska gave a briefing on QA efforts during F11, and planned objectives for F12 and beyond. == Questions & Answers == * nirik asked about any particulars regarding SSH vulnerability wrt. the final intrusion report. No additional vulnerabilities were discovered during the investigation. * Sparks asked about the possibility of two-factor authentication for the infrastructure. Problematic due to 100% FOSS requirement, but the Board directed him to check in with Infrastructure about it. * gregdek asked whether the new QA team member in Beijing was going to be able to help build community in China. jlaska indicated it was possible, and wanted to discuss further out-of-band. * rarora asked about yum performance and was directed to #yum since this was a bit off topic for a Board issue. * notting asked about the status of Asterisk meetings. mmcgrath will have an Asterisk server based off F11 soon after release, but needs more volunteer help getting a broadcast system off the ground. From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Apr 13 21:49:19 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:49:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Where do I send the C/C++ guys? Message-ID: Every now and again C/C++ programmers join the infrastructure list and send an intro. I can always put volunteers to work but I rarely have a C/C++ task to do. I had been also letting them know about the bugzappers group but it dawns on me now that bugzappers is mostly for triage. Do we have any group actively working on patches for $GENERAL_BUGS? -Mike From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Apr 14 03:04:16 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:04:16 -0700 Subject: Fedora 11 Preview Readiness Meeting :: 2009-04-22 @ 17:00 UTC (13:00 EDT) Message-ID: <49E3FD30.2050604@redhat.com> We will be having a meeting to make sure everything is ready to go for a successful Preview Release on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 at 17:00 UTC (13:00 EDT). Please let your teams know about this meeting and coordinate within your team if you would like to send a different representative. Please let me know by Sunday, April 19, 2009 if there are any substitutions. On Monday, April 20, 2009, I will send another reminder including the conference call in information to all the team representatives. I am inviting the following people based on the designated representatives from the Fedora 11 Beta meeting: Ambassadors -- David Nalley Artwork/Design -- M?ir?n Duffy Documentation -- Eric Christensen FESCo -- Jon Stanley Fedora Engineering Manager -- Tom "Spot" Callaway Fedora Project Leader -- Paul Frields Infrastructure -- Mike McGrath Marketing -- Jack Aboutboul Quality -- James Laska Release Engineering -- Jesse Keating Translation -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o Websites -- Ricky Zhou Facilitator -- John Poelstra Thank you, John From kanarip at kanarip.com Tue Apr 14 15:23:07 2009 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:23:07 +0200 Subject: Where do I send the C/C++ guys? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49E4AA5B.3000808@kanarip.com> On 04/13/2009 11:49 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > Every now and again C/C++ programmers join the infrastructure list and > send an intro. I can always put volunteers to work but I rarely have a > C/C++ task to do. I had been also letting them know about the bugzappers > group but it dawns on me now that bugzappers is mostly for triage. > > Do we have any group actively working on patches for $GENERAL_BUGS? > Not that I know of... Nothing prevents the C/C++ people from sinking their teeth into one or the other C/C++ related bug though, even if through the bugzappers group, and bugzappers might just be the right group to mark $GENERAL_BUGS related to C/C++ needing patches as interesting for these people. -Jeroen From kanarip at kanarip.com Tue Apr 14 15:58:59 2009 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:58:59 +0200 Subject: Where do I send the C/C++ guys? In-Reply-To: <49E4AA5B.3000808@kanarip.com> References: <49E4AA5B.3000808@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <49E4B2C3.6070105@kanarip.com> On 04/14/2009 05:23 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: > On 04/13/2009 11:49 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: >> Every now and again C/C++ programmers join the infrastructure list and >> send an intro. I can always put volunteers to work but I rarely have a >> C/C++ task to do. I had been also letting them know about the bugzappers >> group but it dawns on me now that bugzappers is mostly for triage. >> >> Do we have any group actively working on patches for $GENERAL_BUGS? >> > > Not that I know of... > > Nothing prevents the C/C++ people from sinking their teeth into one or > the other C/C++ related bug though, even if through the bugzappers > group, and bugzappers might just be the right group to mark > $GENERAL_BUGS related to C/C++ needing patches as interesting for these > people. > If nothing else BTW, they can help me determine what is going on with this bug you reported: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457582 I can reproduce locally but I haven't got a clue :/ -Jeroen From robert at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 16 17:42:56 2009 From: robert at fedoraproject.org (Robert Scheck) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:42:56 +0200 Subject: Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009) In-Reply-To: <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1239825701.3201.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239877579.3360.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160400h65e5888cs1c46e9132c333f79@mail.gmail.com> <1239881510.3360.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote: > Let's face it: ATM the changes have caused confusion and discomfort in > the Fedora community. For example fedora.de has been taken offline > because of discrepancies between the trademark holder and the domain > owner. Robert as the domain owner is a well known and valuable > contributor of the project and all AFAIK all he did was redirecting to > fedoraproject.org. Well, that's more or less correct. I'm the owner of fedora.de since 2005. Before November 2007, the domain was just redirecting to fedoraproject.org. Once static fedoraproject.org sites came up and got translatable, I did this and served a copy of the German static fedoraproject.org sites via the domain fedora.de - I asked the webteam for the "OK", but yes, they are no laywers, too. The pages are slightly modified to technically run on another host and point out that it's just a copy/mirror at the contact page. And they're using German URLs, /mithelfen/ rather /join/ to make things better to remember for German users. In March 2009, I got a very long e-mail by Paul together with a trademark agreement, which is is written in legalese-english. It's a contract, that can be terminated by both sides without any reason and if terminated, the domain in subject has to be transfered to Red Hat. There are lots and lots of paragraphs extending that, and how to use, not being disrespectful etc. But there are also paragraphs, that say, that I've to use TM, (c) and (r) after the first important usage of Fedora and so on. All that are things, the current static pages of fedoraproject.org violates against. Fedora is violating, I have to fix such stuff when serving a slightly modified copy of the pages - a typical broken thing from legal. Another paragraph e.g. is forcing me to put "Official Fedora Project page" link into footer and/or header of each page (note, that translating that string is not allowed). I was pointing out in the past at the contact page that fedora.de is a copy/ mirror and not more, but modifying stuff all the time is inacceptable and indiscutable for me. A single page pointing that out is much enough. As I didn't sign the agreement until now, from the legal perspective, it is safest to take the whole page/site offline, once such a possible trademark violation gets pointed out (according to Paul, the old trademark guidelines forbidd the Fedora logo usage outside of Fedora). Paul luckily understood my situation and is working together with Red Hat Legal in order to solve this issue hopefully. This is now more than one month ago and as far as I know, Paul is currently on vacation until next week or so. Note that all my cognitions and knowledge about the agreement, I'm forced to sign by Red Hat Legal with a deadline, is just from my understanding of the legalese-english document. So I maybe misunderstood things, but I am also still waiting since more than one month for a German understandable translation. Main indention of such a trademark agreement is, that if I tomorrow get a user, fedora.de not redirects to them or that I sell the domain away and it is used for other things. Red Hat tries even here to protect the domains and (obviously) doesn't want to take the domain for their own usage, but the agreement is written the wrong way - at least from my point of view. If a Fedora-related domain gets known to people to be Fedora-related (such as me), that is a "status" that should be kept now and in the future, according how I have understood Paul; but not mentioned that way in the agreement (at least I was not able to read it there). Fazit: If you ever register a domain name that uses the trademark name of Fedora inside and make it Fedora Project related, Red Hat Legal forces you to sign that agreement - independent, whether it's a redirect domain or really content such as a community or just mirroring some Fedora stuff... As long as I don't appy and I'm not able to fully understand the trademark agreement, Red Hat Legal wants me to sign, the domains fedora.de and fedora.tel (yes, I am owning that one as well) will stay disabled and/or get not in touch with the Fedora Project. Each day, about 1000 of direct requests to fedora.de will end at a dummy page (& ~ 10000 direct requests per day to fedora.de around and especially after Fedora releases)... I'm really pissed, but still hope that Paul comes up with something soon. Greetings, Robert From kanarip at kanarip.com Thu Apr 16 22:10:44 2009 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:10:44 +0200 Subject: Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009) In-Reply-To: <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> References: <1239825701.3201.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239877579.3360.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160400h65e5888cs1c46e9132c333f79@mail.gmail.com> <1239881510.3360.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <49E7ACE4.7060103@kanarip.com> On 04/16/2009 07:42 PM, Robert Scheck wrote: > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote: >> Let's face it: ATM the changes have caused confusion and discomfort in >> the Fedora community. > > Well, that's more or less correct. At this time being involved in several entities that have one or more fedora domain names registered, I can only say that you are not alone in your perceptions that this legal document is slightly twisting our arms as well as restricting us in translations of strings the binding contract wants to see mentioned, but... I can also assure you that concerns raised are handled with care and that the twisting of arms as we percieve it is anything *but* deliberate and completely unintentional. I would also like to mention that it is ultimately us that want these contracts to be signed, so that Red Hat Legal may finally act against *abuse* of the registered trademark, by sites such as the former fedorasolved.com which used to be a site with an anti-Fedora messages on it -if you know what I mean, but has now transferred in ownership to Fedora Unity. Last I'll say in this thread. Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Apr 16 23:51:46 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:51:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009) In-Reply-To: <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> References: <1239825701.3201.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239877579.3360.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160400h65e5888cs1c46e9132c333f79@mail.gmail.com> <1239881510.3360.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Robert Scheck wrote: > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote: > > Let's face it: ATM the changes have caused confusion and discomfort in > > the Fedora community. For example fedora.de has been taken offline > > because of discrepancies between the trademark holder and the domain > > owner. Robert as the domain owner is a well known and valuable > > contributor of the project and all AFAIK all he did was redirecting to > > fedoraproject.org. > > I'm really pissed, but still hope that Paul comes up with something soon. > I'm not familiar with the text of the contract but I wanted to mention something to those who might idly be following this thread to note that Red Hat, as owners of the Fedora name, has to protect it everywhere it knows about it. My understanding is if we don't protect it in one case, we lose the protection everywhere. So even though the text of the contract might be over zealous[1], the contract has to exist in some form. As long as both sides stick to it, I'm sure a good middle ground will be found. -Mike [1] I have no idea what the contract says From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 17 00:07:13 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 05:37:13 +0530 Subject: Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009) In-Reply-To: References: <1239825701.3201.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239877579.3360.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160400h65e5888cs1c46e9132c333f79@mail.gmail.com> <1239881510.3360.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <49E7C831.5020301@fedoraproject.org> On 04/17/2009 05:21 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Robert Scheck wrote: > >> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote: >>> Let's face it: ATM the changes have caused confusion and discomfort in >>> the Fedora community. For example fedora.de has been taken offline >>> because of discrepancies between the trademark holder and the domain >>> owner. Robert as the domain owner is a well known and valuable >>> contributor of the project and all AFAIK all he did was redirecting to >>> fedoraproject.org. >> I'm really pissed, but still hope that Paul comes up with something soon. >> > > I'm not familiar with the text of the contract but I wanted to mention > something to those who might idly be following this thread to note that > Red Hat, as owners of the Fedora name, has to protect it everywhere it > knows about it. My understanding is if we don't protect it in one case, > we lose the protection everywhere. So even though the text of the > contract might be over zealous[1], the contract has to exist in some form. > As long as both sides stick to it, I'm sure a good middle ground will be > found. > > -Mike > > [1] I have no idea what the contract says Shouldn't it be made public? Rahul From kanarip at kanarip.com Fri Apr 17 09:22:38 2009 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:22:38 +0200 Subject: Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009) In-Reply-To: References: <1239825701.3201.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239877579.3360.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160400h65e5888cs1c46e9132c333f79@mail.gmail.com> <1239881510.3360.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <49E84A5E.50303@kanarip.com> On 04/17/2009 01:51 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Robert Scheck wrote: > >> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote: >>> Let's face it: ATM the changes have caused confusion and discomfort in >>> the Fedora community. For example fedora.de has been taken offline >>> because of discrepancies between the trademark holder and the domain >>> owner. Robert as the domain owner is a well known and valuable >>> contributor of the project and all AFAIK all he did was redirecting to >>> fedoraproject.org. >> I'm really pissed, but still hope that Paul comes up with something soon. >> > > I'm not familiar with the text of the contract but I wanted to mention > something to those who might idly be following this thread to note that > Red Hat, as owners of the Fedora name, has to protect it everywhere it > knows about it. My understanding is if we don't protect it in one case, > we lose the protection everywhere. So even though the text of the > contract might be over zealous[1], the contract has to exist in some form. > As long as both sides stick to it, I'm sure a good middle ground will be > found. > And I think you're completely right. Like I said, the intention is to work with us, so that we are protected (e.g. Red Hat is able to protect us, the legitimate users of the Trademark). If this first attempt fails in doing so, in our opinion, we can express concerns and make suggestions and have the document improved. This should be our goal, as a collective, to achieve a goal we pursue (a protected Trademark with enforceable policies with all the freedoms legitimate use requires). -Jeroen From frankly3d at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 09:46:49 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy (Frankly3D)) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:46:49 +0100 Subject: Fedora Stickers Message-ID: <49E85009.8020502@gmail.com> With all the website threads. Thought I would make certain. Is it ok for me to get a run of 1000: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MarketingCollateral#Fedora_stickers_by_NicuBuculei: made up. To be placed on PCs', tha have been converted to Fedora. These can be laptops\desktops. In a commercial world, would be called customers, but done for free. Frank From herlo1 at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 14:51:55 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:51:55 -0600 Subject: Fedora Stickers In-Reply-To: <49E85009.8020502@gmail.com> References: <49E85009.8020502@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Frank Murphy (Frankly3D) wrote: > With all the website threads. > Thought I would make certain. > > Is it ok for me to get a run of 1000: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MarketingCollateral#Fedora_stickers_by_NicuBuculei: > > made up. > To be placed on PCs', tha have been converted to Fedora. > These can be laptops\desktops. > In a commercial world, would be called customers, but done for free. > Frank, depending on where you are in the world, you might already be able to get some. The North American Ambassadors made some of those up recently. I'm glad you want to make 1000, but if you are in NA, we have at least that many. I'm sure you personally don't need 1k stickers though. Feel free to respond if you are in the NA region and we'll work with you to get some. If not, I fully encourage you to work with your regional leaders to get them ordered and paid. Cheers, Clint From jbwillia at math.vt.edu Tue Apr 21 15:44:33 2009 From: jbwillia at math.vt.edu (Ben Williams) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:44:33 -0400 Subject: Fedora Unity Releases F10 Re-spins Message-ID: <49EDE9E1.5050506@math.vt.edu> The Fedora Unity Project is proud to announce the release of new ISO Re-Spins of Fedora 10. These Re-Spin ISOs are based on the officially released Fedora 10 installation media and include all updates released as of April 14th, 2009 (saving about 650MB in updates on a default install). The ISO images are available for i386, x86_64, PPC architectures via Jigdo and or Torrent starting Tuesday April 21st, 2009. Go to http://spins.fedoraunity.org/spins to get the bits! Removed Groups in x86_64 and PPC With this spin, we have had to remove a few package groups (and default packages for other groups) to ensure the distribution fits onto a single DVD. This is the case for x86_64 and ppc. See http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fedora-spins/2009-April/000561.html for an exact list. PPC Re-spins PPC isos are being released marked **UNTESTED**, Please Test and give us feedback, Thanks to We would like to give a special thanks to the following for testing this Re-Spin: - zcat Jason Farrell - vwbusguy- Scott Williams - Southern_Gentleman Ben Williams - kanarip Jeroen van Meeuwen - fenrus2 Dennis Johnson - Harley-D Dana Hoffman Jr - sgodsell Sean Godsell - cyberpear James Cassell Testing Results A full test matrix can be found at http://spins.fedoraunity.org/Members/Southern_Gentleman/Fedora-10-20090414-test-matrix Fedora Unity has taken up the Re-Spin task to provide the community with the chance to install Fedora with recent updates already included. This is a community project, for and by the community. You can contribute to the community by joining our test process. Go to http://spins.fedoraunity.org/spins to get the bits! Assistance Needed If you are interested in helping with the testing or mirroring efforts, please contact the Fedora Unity team. Contact information is available at http://fedoraunity.org/ or the #fedora-unity channel on the Freenode IRC Network (irc.freenode.net). To report bugs in the Re-Spins please use http://bugs.fedoraunity.org/ -- Ben Williams Windows-Linux Specialist 460 McBryde Hall Blacksburg VA 24061-0123 540 231-2739 From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Apr 22 17:43:27 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:43:27 -0700 Subject: Fedora 11 Preview Release Readiness Meeting Recap Message-ID: <49EF573F.8090509@redhat.com> Fedora 11 Preview Release Readiness Meeting 2009-04-22 Invitees: Ambassadors -- David Nalley (Present) Artwork/Design -- M?ir?n Duffy ~~~ \(^*^)/ (Present) Documentation -- John McDonough (Present) (standing in for Eric Christensen) FESCo -- Jon Stanley (Present) Fedora Engineering Manager -- Tom "spot" Callaway (Present) Fedora Project Leader -- Paul Frields (Present) Infrastructure -- Mike McGrath (Present) Marketing -- Jack Aboutboul Quality -- Will Woods (Present) (standing in for James Laska) Release Engineering -- Jesse Keating (Present) Translation -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o Websites -- Ricky Zhou (Present) Facilitator -- John Poelstra (Present) (Collaborative notes created by all participants in Gobby) == Overall Status of the Bits == o rawhide has been lagging because of delta rpm building o verifying blocker list bugs today o hoping that's today's bits will the preview release o "expecting the unexpected" o Good idea to get out links to the test matrix and blocker bug list on fedora-test-list o All bugs on the preview blocker bug list have been examined or fixed: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=476775&hide_resolved=1 o Concern about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495924 (moved to F11Blocker) --Docs team: please add to common bugs page for Fedora 11 -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F11_bugs == Documentation Team == o Release notes are ready o Working on release announcement o Approximately 12 translations partially done for Preview Release o Some worries from translation teams due to size of changes in release notes o rlandmann did a quick statistical check and shows that size of changes from F10->F11 is a significantly smaller number than F9->F10 == Art Team == o One bug that unable to fix for preview release: BZ??? o Where should the countdown banner point to? --schedule or the preview release images? --need to check and possibly change wiki Schedule page to prominently link to prerelease o Working on final banners == Web Team == o Minor changes, everything good to go == Infrastructure == o Keeping an eye on some upgrades at ibiblio (affects torrent server), everything good to go == Marketing == o Not sure of overall status or plans o Need resolution to slogan for web banner == Future Meetings == o Still pursuing ability to record these meetings o Hoping that Fedora 11 deployment will make this easier o Some cons to moving to Asterisk for this in that we would not have 800 call in numbers From jaa at redhat.com Tue Apr 14 17:00:13 2009 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:00:13 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Preview Readiness Meeting :: 2009-04-22 @ 17:00 UTC (13:00 EDT) In-Reply-To: <49E3FD30.2050604@redhat.com> References: <49E3FD30.2050604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49E4C11D.7090504@redhat.com> Thanks John, Looking forward to it. Jack John Poelstra wrote: > We will be having a meeting to make sure everything is ready to go for > a successful Preview Release on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 at 17:00 UTC > (13:00 EDT). Please let your teams know about this meeting and > coordinate within your team if you would like to send a different > representative. Please let me know by Sunday, April 19, 2009 if there > are any substitutions. On Monday, April 20, 2009, I will send another > reminder including the conference call in information to all the team > representatives. > > I am inviting the following people based on the designated > representatives from the Fedora 11 Beta meeting: > > Ambassadors -- David Nalley > Artwork/Design -- M?ir?n Duffy > Documentation -- Eric Christensen > FESCo -- Jon Stanley > Fedora Engineering Manager -- Tom "Spot" Callaway > Fedora Project Leader -- Paul Frields > Infrastructure -- Mike McGrath > Marketing -- Jack Aboutboul > Quality -- James Laska > Release Engineering -- Jesse Keating > Translation -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o > Websites -- Ricky Zhou > > Facilitator -- John Poelstra > > Thank you, > John From fhornain at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 20:16:23 2009 From: fhornain at gmail.com (Frederic Hornain) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:16:23 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Community domain 2nd request Message-ID: <3161376e0904151316p36cddd48i78c9d23012bc0696@mail.gmail.com> Dear *, Here me again. Sorry in advance for that, I permit myself to request you in order to have following domain name be.fedoracommunity.org for Belgium. IP address : 195.207.18.42 Thanks for you time and your efforts. Best Regards Frederic ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Frederic Hornain Date: Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:44 PM Subject: Community domain request To: fedora-advisory-board at redhat.com Dear *, I officially request the following domain name be.fedoracommunity.org for Belgium. Thanks for you time and your efforts. Frederic Hornain Fedora Belgium ----------------------------------------------------- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com -- ----------------------------------------------------- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com Olpc mailing list olpc-open at laptop.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christoph.wickert at googlemail.com Thu Apr 16 12:23:34 2009 From: christoph.wickert at googlemail.com (Christoph Wickert) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:23:34 +0200 Subject: Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009) In-Reply-To: <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> References: <1239825701.3201.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239877579.3360.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160400h65e5888cs1c46e9132c333f79@mail.gmail.com> <1239881510.3360.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> Am Donnerstag, den 16.04.2009, 14:03 +0200 schrieb Frederic Hornain: > Christophe, > > FYI, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Local_community_domains Yes, thanks a lot for this link, meanwhile Red already was so kind as to point me to it on #fedora-de. Obviously this is the result of the latest changes in the trademark guidelines that were driven by the Fedora Advisory Board and Paul Frields. As I stated earlier in this thread, I *do* see the need for local communities very well, but after the discussion back in January I was under the impression that the common position was to first of all enhance fedoraproject.org. I wonder why things have changed and when this was discussed in public. Can somebody please point me to the relevant mails, irc logs or whatever? Let's face it: ATM the changes have caused confusion and discomfort in the Fedora community. For example fedora.de has been taken offline because of discrepancies between the trademark holder and the domain owner. Robert as the domain owner is a well known and valuable contributor of the project and all AFAIK all he did was redirecting to fedoraproject.org. Things like these are hard to understand. There might be good reasons, but IMO the board does a bad job ATM in communicating their views to the outside world. Kind regards, Christoph From sf-foss at iiitm.ac.in Fri Apr 10 05:51:42 2009 From: sf-foss at iiitm.ac.in (sf-foss at iiitm.ac.in) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:21:42 +0530 (IST) Subject: Invitation for the International Advisary and Editorial Board of International Open Source Magazine... Fibonacci In-Reply-To: <15124413.44891239036700201.JavaMail.root@mail.iiitm.ac.in> Message-ID: <24505297.58461239342702120.JavaMail.root@mail.iiitm.ac.in> Dear Director, Indian Institute of Information Technology and Management Gwalior (http://www.iiitm.ac.in/), is one of the leading Indian universities in fields of IT and management. SF-FOSS is a forum running under the university for working in the field of Open Source. The forum conducts numerous activities for the promotion of Open Source Software, Linux, philosophy, concept and awareness of free/open source movement. We also work for the development of Free/Open Source Software. As a part of out endeavor to spread the message of FOSS far and wide, especially among the student community, we are planning to release a magazine "Fibonacci". The magazine aims at spreading knowledge... unrestrained. The magazine already has collaboration with National Resource Center for FOSS (NRC-FOSS) that is working for the national networking. Also the magazine has collaborated with SUN Microsystems for all the support and technical guidance. For the same, it gives me a great pleasure to invite you for the International Advisory Committee of the Magazine. The editorial committee consists of a diverse mixture of people from academia, developers and technicians. We wish to give a good coverage of Fedora and the various applications in it since it is the choice OS and we have been using it sine quite long. Please provide us with some editor who can give some insight into Fedora in form of articles or information that we may include in the magazine. Also if possible please suggest us with some editors (preferably from industry) for the International Editorial Committee of the magazine. The details of the magazine are available at http://sf-foss.iiitm.ac.in/fibonacci/. Please confirm us your acceptance by 12th April, 2009. We are sure that under your guidance, the magazine would become a phenomenal success. Looking forward for a positive reply from your side, Thanks and regards, Rahul Kala President SF-FOSS http://sf-foss.iiitm.ac.in/ From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 21:27:44 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:27:44 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Community domain 2nd request In-Reply-To: <3161376e0904151316p36cddd48i78c9d23012bc0696@mail.gmail.com> References: <3161376e0904151316p36cddd48i78c9d23012bc0696@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090422212744.GN6404@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:16:23PM +0200, Frederic Hornain wrote: > Dear *, > > Here me again. > Sorry in advance for that, I permit myself to request you in order to have > following domain name be.fedoracommunity.org for Belgium. > > IP address : 195.207.18.42 > > Thanks for you time and your efforts. Frederic, I'm very sorry this wasn't seen earlier. While I was on vacation I failed to assign someone to moderate the queue for this list. It won't happen again! In the meantime, did you get a chance to respond to my email to this list on April 6th? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2009-April/msg00004.html Thanks for your time -- the Board did have this on the agenda for today, but we ran overtime and had to table this for long enough to figure out the current status. Now that I've reviewed the archives of this list I can tell where we stopped. The Board will pick this up as soon as possible once we hear back from you. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Apr 22 21:32:17 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:32:17 -0700 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2009-04-22 Message-ID: <49EF8CE1.1070105@redhat.com> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-04-22 == Roll Call == * Attendees: Jesse Keating, Bill Nottingham, Harald Hoyer, Paul Frields, Tom "Spot" Callaway, Dimitris Glezos, Mike McGrath, Matt Domsch, Seth Vidal Regrets: Chris Aillon, Chris Tyler * Secretary: John Poelstra == Future Security Response Plans == * Dimitris requested that the board discuss plans for future handling ** follow-up to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-03-24#Involvement_of_the_Board_in_Future_Security_Incidents ** How can the board be kept updated and notified? * Paul noted that there may be no way to avoid inherent conflict when a matter arises that affects both Red Hat and Fedora * Mike would like to create policy, but it is difficult to write because: ** Incident response will vary depending on the incident in question ** Knowledge dissemination will happen as discovery happens ** Would like to have a contact list and policy so that if Red hat asks who knows we can reference the policy * Spot suggests there are two scenarios to consider when laying out a policy: *# Red Hat related *# Fedora issue only ** Seth asked, 'what is a Fedora issue only'? ** Dimitris noted the community need to have these answered very clearly * First possible contacts could/should (?) be: ** Spot as manager of Fedora Infrastructure ** Paul as Fedora Project Leader * One potential way to expose board members to more information would be a signed non-disclosure agreeement (NDA) ** Seth opposed to NDAs ** Dimitris opposed too, but would consider if it's the only way the Board would be kept in the loop * Board supports Mike writing a policy that he believes is the right way to to do this ** individual people will be brought into the loop "as needed"; no blanket groups automatically granted ** Will need to run past Red Hat Security and potentially Red Hat Legal * '''NEXT ACTIONS''': ** Mike to draft a document and send to fedora-infrastructure by 2009-05-27 == What is Fedora? == * follow-up to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-03-24#What_is_Fedora ** https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives * Tabled for next week's meeting: 2009-04-28 == Status of Trademark Followup == * follow-up to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-03-10#Trademark_Followup ** Paul is following up with people that have concerns * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Trademark_licensees * Overall uptake is good ** A few general misgivings remain ** One community member with very specific issues, trying to resolve them currently * Fedora Legal recently had to intervene in a misuse of "Fedora Remix" -- we do need to maintain vigilance == be.fedoracommunity.org Domain Request == * Tabled for next week's meeting: 2009-04-28 * Email from Frederic Hornain delayed in FAB queue while Paul (list maintainer) was on vacation ** ACTION ITEM: Paul - to figure out status From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 23 05:47:58 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:17:58 +0530 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2009-04-22 In-Reply-To: <49EF8CE1.1070105@redhat.com> References: <49EF8CE1.1070105@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49F0010E.3010408@fedoraproject.org> On 04/23/2009 03:02 AM, John Poelstra wrote: > ** One community member with very specific issues, trying to resolve > them currently > * Fedora Legal recently had to intervene in a misuse of "Fedora Remix" > -- we do need to maintain vigilance Can more details be provided on these? Rahul From chris at tylers.info Thu Apr 23 11:38:51 2009 From: chris at tylers.info (Chris Tyler) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:38:51 -0400 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2009-04-22 In-Reply-To: <49EF8CE1.1070105@redhat.com> References: <49EF8CE1.1070105@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1240486731.25598.3563.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 14:32 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-04-22 > > == Roll Call == > > * Attendees: Jesse Keating, Bill Nottingham, Harald Hoyer, Paul Frields, > Tom "Spot" Callaway, Dimitris Glezos, Mike McGrath, Matt Domsch, Seth Vidal > Regrets: Chris Aillon, Chris Tyler > * Secretary: John Poelstra My sincere apologies for missing the meeting (and from the looks of it, some good discussion) -- I got tied up mid-day and the time escaped me. -Chris From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:15:44 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:15:44 -0400 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2009-04-22 In-Reply-To: <49F0010E.3010408@fedoraproject.org> References: <49EF8CE1.1070105@redhat.com> <49F0010E.3010408@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090423121544.GH6404@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:17:58AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 04/23/2009 03:02 AM, John Poelstra wrote: > > > ** One community member with very specific issues, trying to resolve > > them currently > > * Fedora Legal recently had to intervene in a misuse of "Fedora Remix" > > -- we do need to maintain vigilance > > Can more details be provided on these? In the latter case, someone created a Fedora Remix that was also given a name which was a violation of Red Hat's trademark guidelines. The party agreed to rename the remix distribution. The case serves as a reminder that, while the Fedora Remix mark is available for the community to create new combinations of software that draw from the Fedora Project, the resulting remixes are still subject to other applicable law or regulation. (For example, you couldn't name a Fedora Remix something like "Windows Plus.") -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 16:17:28 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:17:28 -0400 Subject: Reminder: Fedora Board IRC meeting 1800 UTC 2009-05-05 Message-ID: <20090425161728.GA12588@localhost.localdomain> The Board is holding its monthly public meeting on Tuesday, 5 May 2009, at 1800 UTC on IRC Freenode. The Board has settled on a schedule that puts these public IRC meetings on the first Tuesday of each month. Therefore, the next following public meeting will be on 5 May 2009. For these meetings, the public is invited to do the following: * Join #fedora-board-meeting to see the Board's conversation. * Join #fedora-board-questions to discuss topics and post questions. This channel is read/write for everyone. The moderator will voice people from the queue, one at a time, in the #fedora-board-meeting channel. We'll limit time per voice as needed to give everyone in the queue a chance to be heard. The Board may reserve some time at the top of the hour to cover any agenda items as appropriate. We look forward to seeing you at the meeting! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 16:20:36 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:20:36 -0400 Subject: Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009) In-Reply-To: <49E7C831.5020301@fedoraproject.org> References: <1239825701.3201.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239877579.3360.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160400h65e5888cs1c46e9132c333f79@mail.gmail.com> <1239881510.3360.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3161376e0904160503g2426238at8f9ff180f6984d25@mail.gmail.com> <1239884614.3360.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090416174256.GA20209@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <49E7C831.5020301@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090425162036.GB12588@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 05:37:13AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 04/17/2009 05:21 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Robert Scheck wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote: > >>> Let's face it: ATM the changes have caused confusion and discomfort in > >>> the Fedora community. For example fedora.de has been taken offline > >>> because of discrepancies between the trademark holder and the domain > >>> owner. Robert as the domain owner is a well known and valuable > >>> contributor of the project and all AFAIK all he did was redirecting to > >>> fedoraproject.org. > >> I'm really pissed, but still hope that Paul comes up with something soon. > >> > > > > I'm not familiar with the text of the contract but I wanted to mention > > something to those who might idly be following this thread to note that > > Red Hat, as owners of the Fedora name, has to protect it everywhere it > > knows about it. My understanding is if we don't protect it in one case, > > we lose the protection everywhere. So even though the text of the > > contract might be over zealous[1], the contract has to exist in some form. > > As long as both sides stick to it, I'm sure a good middle ground will be > > found. > > > > -Mike > > > > [1] I have no idea what the contract says > > Shouldn't it be made public? Refer to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Trademark_license_agreement -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 02:26:48 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:26:48 -0400 Subject: Statistics problem Message-ID: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> I found that our statistics for downloading have not been properly capturing requests for Live ISO images from our download links on the fp.o/get-fedora page. I'll be updating the numbers on the wiki's [[Statistics]] page in the next day or two. I did two counts, one for DVD and Live without uniq'ing the IP addresses doing the retrievals (because there could be multiple downloads from people behind firewalls), and one with. In both cases I think the numbers are very significantly higher than our current stats show. The raw numbers per day since F10 release are attached. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- Direct downloads: 2008-11-25 DVD=43045 Live=59159 UniqueDVD=14849 UniqueLive=29660 2008-11-26 DVD=87646 Live=111741 UniqueDVD=22154 UniqueLive=44653 2008-11-27 DVD=48131 Live=51332 UniqueDVD=12877 UniqueLive=24894 2008-11-28 DVD=36580 Live=35519 UniqueDVD=9739 UniqueLive=18136 2008-11-29 DVD=28507 Live=31680 UniqueDVD=7431 UniqueLive=14453 2008-11-30 DVD=18901 Live=22297 UniqueDVD=5741 UniqueLive=12106 2008-12-01 DVD=19723 Live=23835 UniqueDVD=6738 UniqueLive=13455 2008-12-02 DVD=18263 Live=23298 UniqueDVD=6384 UniqueLive=12244 2008-12-03 DVD=14057 Live=21774 UniqueDVD=5792 UniqueLive=11312 2008-12-04 DVD=15178 Live=18501 UniqueDVD=5364 UniqueLive=10660 2008-12-05 DVD=16458 Live=19092 UniqueDVD=5130 UniqueLive=10433 2008-12-06 DVD=12817 Live=17015 UniqueDVD=4223 UniqueLive=9200 2008-12-07 DVD=9606 Live=15050 UniqueDVD=3698 UniqueLive=8234 2008-12-08 DVD=12017 Live=15502 UniqueDVD=4238 UniqueLive=9082 2008-12-09 DVD=12071 Live=15314 UniqueDVD=3871 UniqueLive=8170 2008-12-10 DVD=18208 Live=14963 UniqueDVD=4311 UniqueLive=8693 2008-12-11 DVD=19493 Live=16698 UniqueDVD=4131 UniqueLive=8680 2008-12-12 DVD=19506 Live=15380 UniqueDVD=4005 UniqueLive=8543 2008-12-13 DVD=10450 Live=13221 UniqueDVD=3612 UniqueLive=7799 2008-12-14 DVD=7965 Live=12531 UniqueDVD=3171 UniqueLive=7132 2008-12-15 DVD=12683 Live=16200 UniqueDVD=3781 UniqueLive=7841 2008-12-16 DVD=12064 Live=13711 UniqueDVD=3755 UniqueLive=8147 2008-12-17 DVD=16936 Live=14227 UniqueDVD=3730 UniqueLive=7963 2008-12-18 DVD=23106 Live=14835 UniqueDVD=3699 UniqueLive=7791 2008-12-19 DVD=18697 Live=15904 UniqueDVD=3597 UniqueLive=7571 2008-12-20 DVD=10699 Live=13776 UniqueDVD=3304 UniqueLive=6908 2008-12-21 DVD=17127 Live=13330 UniqueDVD=2909 UniqueLive=6524 2008-12-22 DVD=21665 Live=13987 UniqueDVD=3524 UniqueLive=7560 2008-12-23 DVD=10110 Live=13695 UniqueDVD=3565 UniqueLive=7550 2008-12-24 DVD=7544 Live=11250 UniqueDVD=3019 UniqueLive=6355 2008-12-25 DVD=7431 Live=10241 UniqueDVD=2522 UniqueLive=5528 2008-12-26 DVD=7696 Live=12258 UniqueDVD=2928 UniqueLive=6633 2008-12-27 DVD=20675 Live=11878 UniqueDVD=2710 UniqueLive=6258 2008-12-28 DVD=19961 Live=11346 UniqueDVD=2637 UniqueLive=6089 2008-12-29 DVD=11236 Live=13551 UniqueDVD=3297 UniqueLive=7260 2008-12-30 DVD=12603 Live=12397 UniqueDVD=3217 UniqueLive=7206 2008-12-31 DVD=7148 Live=11271 UniqueDVD=2735 UniqueLive=6244 2009-01-01 DVD=5552 Live=10194 UniqueDVD=2200 UniqueLive=5350 2009-01-02 DVD=6648 Live=12335 UniqueDVD=2797 UniqueLive=6987 2009-01-03 DVD=5083 Live=16710 UniqueDVD=2521 UniqueLive=6391 2009-01-04 DVD=6165 Live=12498 UniqueDVD=2501 UniqueLive=6181 2009-01-05 DVD=7412 Live=13387 UniqueDVD=3336 UniqueLive=7436 2009-01-06 DVD=7815 Live=12734 UniqueDVD=3198 UniqueLive=7408 2009-01-07 DVD=8113 Live=13990 UniqueDVD=3307 UniqueLive=7542 2009-01-08 DVD=7414 Live=35315 UniqueDVD=3225 UniqueLive=7658 2009-01-09 DVD=9220 Live=25712 UniqueDVD=3198 UniqueLive=7590 2009-01-10 DVD=7318 Live=12388 UniqueDVD=2849 UniqueLive=7007 2009-01-11 DVD=6550 Live=12629 UniqueDVD=2496 UniqueLive=6439 2009-01-12 DVD=7771 Live=18301 UniqueDVD=3100 UniqueLive=7712 2009-01-13 DVD=23568 Live=14146 UniqueDVD=3392 UniqueLive=7737 2009-01-14 DVD=7943 Live=13398 UniqueDVD=3246 UniqueLive=7748 2009-01-15 DVD=7973 Live=13728 UniqueDVD=3136 UniqueLive=7691 2009-01-16 DVD=7917 Live=13258 UniqueDVD=3150 UniqueLive=7602 2009-01-17 DVD=7616 Live=12964 UniqueDVD=2880 UniqueLive=7007 2009-01-18 DVD=7151 Live=11156 UniqueDVD=2534 UniqueLive=6500 2009-01-19 DVD=7899 Live=13411 UniqueDVD=3081 UniqueLive=7597 2009-01-20 DVD=7803 Live=12599 UniqueDVD=3198 UniqueLive=7476 2009-01-21 DVD=8757 Live=12744 UniqueDVD=3144 UniqueLive=7603 2009-01-22 DVD=7163 Live=12788 UniqueDVD=3165 UniqueLive=7572 2009-01-23 DVD=6885 Live=12838 UniqueDVD=3088 UniqueLive=7778 2009-01-24 DVD=7518 Live=12169 UniqueDVD=2790 UniqueLive=7186 2009-01-25 DVD=13290 Live=10781 UniqueDVD=2506 UniqueLive=6489 2009-01-26 DVD=6438 Live=12718 UniqueDVD=2850 UniqueLive=7237 2009-01-27 DVD=6406 Live=12407 UniqueDVD=2964 UniqueLive=7511 2009-01-28 DVD=7536 Live=13468 UniqueDVD=3123 UniqueLive=8003 2009-01-29 DVD=6820 Live=13102 UniqueDVD=3192 UniqueLive=7636 2009-01-30 DVD=8321 Live=12231 UniqueDVD=2970 UniqueLive=7392 2009-01-31 DVD=7593 Live=12388 UniqueDVD=2721 UniqueLive=6938 2009-02-01 DVD=6787 Live=11746 UniqueDVD=2589 UniqueLive=6295 2009-02-02 DVD=6741 Live=13029 UniqueDVD=3096 UniqueLive=7358 2009-02-03 DVD=6690 Live=13210 UniqueDVD=3177 UniqueLive=7750 2009-02-04 DVD=7081 Live=13791 UniqueDVD=3279 UniqueLive=7793 2009-02-05 DVD=8396 Live=14323 UniqueDVD=3176 UniqueLive=8023 2009-02-06 DVD=8709 Live=12667 UniqueDVD=2992 UniqueLive=7661 2009-02-07 DVD=6676 Live=12006 UniqueDVD=2660 UniqueLive=7050 2009-02-08 DVD=5436 Live=11517 UniqueDVD=2388 UniqueLive=6556 2009-02-09 DVD=22896 Live=12065 UniqueDVD=2814 UniqueLive=7210 2009-02-10 DVD=7567 Live=12714 UniqueDVD=2934 UniqueLive=7593 2009-02-11 DVD=7117 Live=13319 UniqueDVD=2929 UniqueLive=7496 2009-02-12 DVD=9663 Live=16677 UniqueDVD=2853 UniqueLive=7428 2009-02-13 DVD=7090 Live=13238 UniqueDVD=2838 UniqueLive=7275 2009-02-14 DVD=6041 Live=11919 UniqueDVD=2444 UniqueLive=6803 2009-02-15 DVD=4928 Live=11026 UniqueDVD=2293 UniqueLive=6305 2009-02-16 DVD=6636 Live=12312 UniqueDVD=2753 UniqueLive=7127 2009-02-17 DVD=8848 Live=13098 UniqueDVD=2879 UniqueLive=7412 2009-02-18 DVD=9388 Live=15167 UniqueDVD=3044 UniqueLive=7666 2009-02-19 DVD=8111 Live=13654 UniqueDVD=2952 UniqueLive=7412 2009-02-20 DVD=7956 Live=13343 UniqueDVD=2895 UniqueLive=7557 2009-02-21 DVD=5302 Live=11887 UniqueDVD=2508 UniqueLive=6763 2009-02-22 DVD=5652 Live=11156 UniqueDVD=2260 UniqueLive=6249 2009-02-23 DVD=6338 Live=12836 UniqueDVD=2700 UniqueLive=6919 2009-02-24 DVD=7136 Live=12156 UniqueDVD=2773 UniqueLive=7099 2009-02-25 DVD=7226 Live=12372 UniqueDVD=2735 UniqueLive=6986 2009-02-26 DVD=7263 Live=13732 UniqueDVD=2831 UniqueLive=7757 2009-02-27 DVD=6442 Live=13213 UniqueDVD=2801 UniqueLive=7257 2009-02-28 DVD=6096 Live=13082 UniqueDVD=2487 UniqueLive=6806 2009-03-01 DVD=5458 Live=11879 UniqueDVD=2345 UniqueLive=6065 2009-03-02 DVD=7125 Live=12248 UniqueDVD=2752 UniqueLive=6975 2009-03-03 DVD=7813 Live=14099 UniqueDVD=2852 UniqueLive=7245 2009-03-04 DVD=11268 Live=15943 UniqueDVD=2843 UniqueLive=7534 2009-03-05 DVD=8004 Live=12200 UniqueDVD=2863 UniqueLive=7213 2009-03-06 DVD=7720 Live=13607 UniqueDVD=2822 UniqueLive=7099 2009-03-07 DVD=5569 Live=12484 UniqueDVD=2396 UniqueLive=6420 2009-03-08 DVD=5178 Live=10855 UniqueDVD=2103 UniqueLive=5848 2009-03-09 DVD=7460 Live=12164 UniqueDVD=2635 UniqueLive=6793 2009-03-10 DVD=9433 Live=12385 UniqueDVD=2740 UniqueLive=7247 2009-03-11 DVD=7352 Live=11588 UniqueDVD=2697 UniqueLive=6872 2009-03-12 DVD=7157 Live=13369 UniqueDVD=2874 UniqueLive=7419 2009-03-13 DVD=9291 Live=12110 UniqueDVD=2647 UniqueLive=6933 2009-03-14 DVD=6999 Live=10970 UniqueDVD=2408 UniqueLive=6267 2009-03-15 DVD=10114 Live=10225 UniqueDVD=2076 UniqueLive=5874 2009-03-16 DVD=17628 Live=12128 UniqueDVD=2590 UniqueLive=6880 2009-03-17 DVD=7790 Live=11493 UniqueDVD=2584 UniqueLive=6846 2009-03-18 DVD=9082 Live=11817 UniqueDVD=2624 UniqueLive=6941 2009-03-19 DVD=8656 Live=12418 UniqueDVD=2631 UniqueLive=6815 2009-03-20 DVD=7734 Live=11567 UniqueDVD=2716 UniqueLive=6713 2009-03-21 DVD=8182 Live=11779 UniqueDVD=2238 UniqueLive=6227 2009-03-22 DVD=8240 Live=10757 UniqueDVD=2008 UniqueLive=5742 2009-03-23 DVD=9597 Live=11392 UniqueDVD=2563 UniqueLive=6570 2009-03-24 DVD=6290 Live=12394 UniqueDVD=2641 UniqueLive=6985 2009-03-25 DVD=6109 Live=12446 UniqueDVD=2570 UniqueLive=6805 2009-03-26 DVD=10963 Live=11602 UniqueDVD=2630 UniqueLive=6885 2009-03-27 DVD=6691 Live=11985 UniqueDVD=2678 UniqueLive=6715 2009-03-28 DVD=9073 Live=10905 UniqueDVD=2307 UniqueLive=6088 2009-03-29 DVD=6405 Live=11673 UniqueDVD=2033 UniqueLive=5564 2009-03-30 DVD=9985 Live=12864 UniqueDVD=2469 UniqueLive=6560 2009-03-31 DVD=6635 Live=15308 UniqueDVD=2587 UniqueLive=6707 2009-04-01 DVD=6071 Live=12032 UniqueDVD=2546 UniqueLive=6743 2009-04-02 DVD=6099 Live=17018 UniqueDVD=2528 UniqueLive=6540 2009-04-03 DVD=5989 Live=13561 UniqueDVD=2437 UniqueLive=6432 2009-04-04 DVD=5205 Live=12175 UniqueDVD=2140 UniqueLive=5711 2009-04-05 DVD=4164 Live=17395 UniqueDVD=1852 UniqueLive=5209 2009-04-06 DVD=6403 Live=16622 UniqueDVD=2314 UniqueLive=6067 2009-04-07 DVD=6301 Live=11676 UniqueDVD=2520 UniqueLive=6448 2009-04-08 DVD=6888 Live=15435 UniqueDVD=2539 UniqueLive=6633 2009-04-09 DVD=5839 Live=13984 UniqueDVD=2401 UniqueLive=6319 2009-04-10 DVD=6956 Live=17016 UniqueDVD=2248 UniqueLive=6008 2009-04-11 DVD=5779 Live=19826 UniqueDVD=1993 UniqueLive=5347 2009-04-12 DVD=5951 Live=10807 UniqueDVD=1800 UniqueLive=4901 2009-04-13 DVD=6449 Live=17217 UniqueDVD=2223 UniqueLive=5722 2009-04-14 DVD=5238 Live=12572 UniqueDVD=2447 UniqueLive=6148 2009-04-15 DVD=7968 Live=13083 UniqueDVD=2351 UniqueLive=6201 2009-04-16 DVD=6393 Live=13195 UniqueDVD=2402 UniqueLive=6108 2009-04-17 DVD=5158 Live=16285 UniqueDVD=2335 UniqueLive=6043 2009-04-18 DVD=4997 Live=21233 UniqueDVD=2065 UniqueLive=5343 2009-04-19 DVD=6357 Live=24639 UniqueDVD=1779 UniqueLive=4716 2009-04-20 DVD=4901 Live=18135 UniqueDVD=2177 UniqueLive=5756 2009-04-21 DVD=5103 Live=11575 UniqueDVD=2255 UniqueLive=6099 2009-04-22 DVD=5185 Live=10194 UniqueDVD=2400 UniqueLive=6141 2009-04-23 DVD=6274 Live=31764 UniqueDVD=2293 UniqueLive=5909 2009-04-24 DVD=7486 Live=15202 UniqueDVD=2269 UniqueLive=5934 2009-04-25 DVD=6655 Live=10235 UniqueDVD=1922 UniqueLive=5252 2009-04-26 DVD=5148 Live=10810 UniqueDVD=1722 UniqueLive=4798 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 02:30:35 2009 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:30:35 -0800 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I did two counts, one for DVD and Live without uniq'ing the IP > addresses doing the retrievals (because there could be multiple > downloads from people behind firewalls), and one with. ?In both cases > I think the numbers are very significantly higher than our current > stats show. ?The raw numbers per day since F10 release are attached. All those numbers in the txt use the "corrected" approach? -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 03:43:01 2009 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:43:01 -0800 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> I did two counts, one for DVD and Live without uniq'ing the IP >> addresses doing the retrievals (because there could be multiple >> downloads from people behind firewalls), and one with. ?In both cases >> I think the numbers are very significantly higher than our current >> stats show. ?The raw numbers per day since F10 release are attached. > > All those numbers in the txt use the "corrected" approach? Just to be clear.. what where the stats showing before? Just the unique DVD counts? -jef From stickster at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 12:29:50 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:29:50 -0400 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 07:43:01PM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> I did two counts, one for DVD and Live without uniq'ing the IP > >> addresses doing the retrievals (because there could be multiple > >> downloads from people behind firewalls), and one with. ?In both cases > >> I think the numbers are very significantly higher than our current > >> stats show. ?The raw numbers per day since F10 release are attached. > > > > All those numbers in the txt use the "corrected" approach? > > Just to be clear.. what where the stats showing before? Just the > unique DVD counts? The download numbers before were using the direct download command shown on this wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics/Commands There was at least one major problem with that command; the Fedora 10 Live ISO filenames don't start with "Fedora-10," they start with "F10," meaning we weren't counting them *at all*. So I've included two counts, one for the DVD and one for the Live ISO as clicked from the get-fedora page. (Other spins, as far as I can tell, are done via torrent and we're capturing those statistics from the tracker elsewhere.) The second problem may not be a real problem -- it's that we are uniq-ing the IP addresses doing the downloading. That method has the potential to cut out legitimate, repetitive downloads from inside a firewall. I'd feel better cutting those ticks out if they were separated by a very short timeframe. Then we could be reasonably certain they were caused by repeated clicks, rather than actual separate downloads. In the interest of a conservative approach, I'm willing to stick with uniq-ing the stats, but I produced both sets of numbers anyway. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jonstanley at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 12:44:15 2009 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:44:15 -0400 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > uniq-ing the IP addresses doing the downloading. ?That method has the > potential to cut out legitimate, repetitive downloads from inside a > firewall. ?I'd feel better cutting those ticks out if they were I'm not sure if you can see this in our logs or not (you might have to have the individual mirrors logs :( ), but if the response code is a 206, that means it was a RANGE request - to download part of a file. It's not at all uncommon for a download manager to open 20-30 connections to download the same file for the same user., So I'd opt for the conservative approach of uniques as well. From stickster at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 12:57:50 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:57:50 -0400 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:44:15AM -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > uniq-ing the IP addresses doing the downloading. ?That method has the > > potential to cut out legitimate, repetitive downloads from inside a > > firewall. ?I'd feel better cutting those ticks out if they were > > I'm not sure if you can see this in our logs or not (you might have to > have the individual mirrors logs :( ), but if the response code is a > 206, that means it was a RANGE request - to download part of a file. > It's not at all uncommon for a download manager to open 20-30 > connections to download the same file for the same user., > > So I'd opt for the conservative approach of uniques as well. To clarify, I'm already filtering these out on a 302 code. How would that change your opinion, if at all? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jonstanley at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 13:47:18 2009 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:47:18 -0400 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > To clarify, I'm already filtering these out on a 302 code. ?How would > that change your opinion, if at all? 302's are just redirects, which is all we do. What I'm not sure of is if the download managers would be intelligent enough to hit the URL that they're redirected to 20-30 times, or if they hit us 20-30 times. I guess it probably depends on which download manager is in use From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Tue Apr 28 13:52:20 2009 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:52:20 +0300 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:57:50AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:44:15AM -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > uniq-ing the IP addresses doing the downloading. ?That method has the > > > potential to cut out legitimate, repetitive downloads from inside a > > > firewall. ?I'd feel better cutting those ticks out if they were > > > > I'm not sure if you can see this in our logs or not (you might have to > > have the individual mirrors logs :( ), but if the response code is a > > 206, that means it was a RANGE request - to download part of a file. > > It's not at all uncommon for a download manager to open 20-30 > > connections to download the same file for the same user., > > > > So I'd opt for the conservative approach of uniques as well. > > To clarify, I'm already filtering these out on a 302 code. How would > that change your opinion, if at all? Isn't 302 a (temp) relocation? Why would filtering out 302 also filter out 206? Maybe the cleanest solution is to count downloaded bytes and divide by image size. That way you properly count ranged downloads. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 14:59:56 2009 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:59:56 -0800 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> Message-ID: <604aa7910904280759x6666d0dbre32c7ca75f2c5b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Axel Thimm wrote: > Maybe the cleanest solution is to count downloaded bytes and divide by > image size. That way you properly count ranged downloads. Hmm that would be neat. Unique ips and total number of download bytes I think both say something interesting. -jef From jonstanley at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 15:08:15 2009 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:08:15 -0400 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <604aa7910904280759x6666d0dbre32c7ca75f2c5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> <604aa7910904280759x6666d0dbre32c7ca75f2c5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Hmm that would be neat. > > Unique ips and total number of download bytes I think both say > something interesting. Except for the fact that all we're doing is redirecting users to a mirror. We don't have visibility into that data, unfortunately. From stickster at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 15:17:55 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:17:55 -0400 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> Message-ID: <20090428151755.GC3350@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 04:52:20PM +0300, Axel Thimm wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:57:50AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:44:15AM -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > > > uniq-ing the IP addresses doing the downloading. ?That method has the > > > > potential to cut out legitimate, repetitive downloads from inside a > > > > firewall. ?I'd feel better cutting those ticks out if they were > > > > > > I'm not sure if you can see this in our logs or not (you might have to > > > have the individual mirrors logs :( ), but if the response code is a > > > 206, that means it was a RANGE request - to download part of a file. > > > It's not at all uncommon for a download manager to open 20-30 > > > connections to download the same file for the same user., > > > > > > So I'd opt for the conservative approach of uniques as well. > > > > To clarify, I'm already filtering these out on a 302 code. How would > > that change your opinion, if at all? > > Isn't 302 a (temp) relocation? Why would filtering out 302 also filter > out 206? I misused a pronoun -- I am specifically *grepping for 302*, which I did not state clearly. Did anyone look at the commands page I linked earlier? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics/Commands > Maybe the cleanest solution is to count downloaded bytes and divide by > image size. That way you properly count ranged downloads. Command suggestions are very welcome. I really don't have time to delve into this incredibly deeply at the moment. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Apr 29 12:18:43 2009 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:18:43 +0300 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> <604aa7910904280759x6666d0dbre32c7ca75f2c5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090429121843.GA26655@victor.nirvana> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:08:15AM -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > Hmm that would be neat. > > > > Unique ips and total number of download bytes I think both say > > something interesting. > > Except for the fact that all we're doing is redirecting users to a > mirror. We don't have visibility into that data, unfortunately. So we actually never see it the HEAD resolves to a GET for example, is that correct? -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Apr 29 12:20:54 2009 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:54 +0300 Subject: Statistics problem In-Reply-To: <20090428151755.GC3350@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090428022648.GD17892@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910904271930v57ec8605h97ead5df8af24be4@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910904272043s55bc625fr166ab65a4ddd6ec6@mail.gmail.com> <20090428122950.GC13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428125750.GE13551@localhost.localdomain> <20090428135220.GA19050@victor.nirvana> <20090428151755.GC3350@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090429122054.GB26655@victor.nirvana> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:17:55AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Maybe the cleanest solution is to count downloaded bytes and divide by > > image size. That way you properly count ranged downloads. > > Command suggestions are very welcome. I really don't have time to > delve into this incredibly deeply at the moment. Could you post a small fragment of the raw logs? But it seems like all we see are the primary redirects, possibly w/o noting ranges in the logs. E.g. for better statistics the logs would need to capture the ranges from the head as well. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Apr 30 00:18:03 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:18:03 -0700 Subject: Fedora Board Recap 2009-04-29 Message-ID: <49F8EE3B.1040209@redhat.com> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-04-29 == Roll Call == * Board Members: Paul Frields, Dimitris Glezos, Bill Nottingham, Spot Callaway, Matt Domsch, Seth Vidal, Jesse Keating, Chris Tyler, Christopher Aillon * Regrets: Harald Hoyer * Secretary: John Poelstra == Belgian Domain Request == * previously: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-04-22#be.fedoracommunity.org_Domain_Request * Paul: board is still waiting for response from requestor * Paul: guidelines have been updated so all community members are on level playing field for requests == What is Fedora? == * previously: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2009-04-22#What_is_Fedora.3F * Paul: # Have we finished discussing this topic? # What is the board's role: arbitrate problems or lead with new initiatives? Discussion occurred; proposals and decisions have been tabled to the next meeting. ''' BRAINSTORMING FOLLOWS -- THIS DOES NOT REPRESENT OFFICIAL BOARD POLICY OR DECISION ''' * Paul ** Is the board OK with the current process we are on surrounding defining Fedora and its goals and purposes? ((have we answered this question?)) ** Suggests that board next move forward with a prioritized list of goals for Fedora. To do that we need a foundation for what Fedora is about ** How do we decide what is most important to Fedora? ((have we answered this question?)) ** Could this affect release processes and policies and what drives them? ** How does the board help guide and lead the project? * Matt: board should be more than judges, we should lead new initiatives * Seth: we owe it to everyone to be clear about whether the desktop team is the decider for what fedora's technical decisions and directions are. Or not. * CTyler: seems there is lack of clarity in community about Fedora * Notting: Would clarity on any of the question of "What is Fedora" have helped quell or guide the recent upheavals on fedora-devel-list? Tend to believe no * Point is not to derail FESCo decision-making, on the contrary to ensure they have sufficient input, e.g. schedules ** Spot on how schedules and slip/no-slip decisions are made: *** Schedule drafted by Rel-Eng *** Schedule sent to FESCo for approval *** Approved schedule documented *** At major milestone points, representatives from each key Fedora group report on readiness status *** If any Fedora group feels like we need to slip, we discuss it and decide on whether or not to slip ** Community seems to want answer of is "Fedora a Desktop" or "Who is the target user" and not so much "What is Fedora?" ** Can we delegate "Who is Fedora's target audience is" to each SIG? i.e., each Spin sets its target audience. * jkeating thinks that less choice would be more effective. * spot disagreed somewhat and thinks that representing the spins in a list helps us extend our user base. ** wants FESCo to continue to arbitrate requests for changes that could affect more than that spin (like default behaviors, package changes, etc.) * jkeating: Brings us back to who we want to target. Some change is going to break the experience for everyone. * notting: We've made changes that affect GNOME & KDE, and we leave other desktops' changes to others. (jkeating: Sometimes GNOME only.) * How do we decide where the lines are between which target users get preference over others? * spot: Suggest that GNOME Desktop spin be explicitly acknowledged as default ("first among equals") -- Changes to benefit other Spins that create a conflict should be arbitrated by FESCo, with guidance that the GNOME Desktop spin wins if all else is equal. If those changes are not amenable to the GNOME desktop SIG, then they go to FESCo for arbitration. If FESCo feels that the change is worthwhile, they should escalate to the Board for final decision.