Yet another website? (Re: [Ambassadors] belux ambassadors meeting log 15th April 2009)

[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 08:30:46PM +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> Am Freitag, den 08.05.2009, 13:13 -0500 schrieb Mike McGrath:
> > On Fri, 8 May 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> > > > Refer to:
> > > >   https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Trademark_license_agreement
> > >
> > > Is this all you have to say about it? If so, you are proving what I
> > > wrote previously: "Things like these are hard to understand. There might
> > > be good reasons, but IMO the board does a bad job ATM in communicating
> > > their views to the outside world."
> > >
> > 
> > I can't speak for the board but I'm pretty sure you're confusing legal
> > constraints with the boards view.  
> 
> Probably, but the problem is that the board does not outline it's view
> but only hands out a contract to sign.

Actually, it's important to recall here that Red Hat is the owner of
the Fedora trademarks, and the Board is entrusted with helping to
oversee their use.  As written on the trademark guidelines page,
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines :

"Red Hat enlists the assistance of the Fedora Project Board
(hereinafter "Board") to oversee the trademark guidelines to ensure
compliance by the community. The Board may grant permission for uses
as explained below. The Board serves as the first line of mediation
when questions of use arise."

I am serving a dual purpose here, both as a liaison with Red Hat Legal
on matters of trademark, and also reporting to the Board with
information that will help in providing the oversight with which
they're entrusted.

> > > You cannot expect someone to sign a
> > > contract if he doesn't even understand it's content.
> > >
> > 
> > I'd strongly recommend if you find anything you don't understand to
> > discuss it with your lawyer.  
> 
> So, a valuable community member (no, not me) who already spends a lot of
> time and money on Fedora even needs to pay for a lawyer? Even the lawyer
> will advise you not to sign anything but to get a certified translation
> first. People are waiting for that translation for months now.

Not at all -- in fact, I continue to be available to answer specific
questions about the language or the import of any part of the
agreement.  I've done this already for several people, and would be
happy to continue to do so.

Translations are, unfortunately, a non-trivial problem, because as the
agreement states, the original English version is the canonical text.
It is written in a specific way to conform to a long history of case
law (beyond just Red Hat, of course).  In translation, it is possible
-- even when a translation is done by an attorney -- to introduce
inconsistencies and confusion.  And in that event, any advice received
about the translation could be affected.

There is only one person that I know of waiting for a translation, and
as I informed him, I do not believe Red Hat is going to undertake the
cost for that translation and certification.  I suppose it would be
possible for the Fedora Project to pay for that, but how many
languages would we need to do this for?  All of them?  And what would
we then have to cut from our spending to pay for such a translation?

I think if there are concrete questions about the intent or meaning of
anything in the agreement, we can freely discuss it here.  Most of the
language is fairly standard and, as I've explained to everyone who has
requested or received it, is not designed to trick or damage anyone.
The agreement represents a fair way of both:

* giving the community much wider latitude than with the previous
  Fedora trademark guidelines, and

* ensuring that the rights of the trademark owner are also preserved

The work that the community does to promote Fedora over time using the
trademarks has created much of the value in the Fedora brand.  That is
why I partnered with Red Hat Legal to substantially liberalize our
trademark guidelines.  They now reflect much more of the realistic
uses to which the community puts the trademarks to grow the reputation
and brand of Fedora.

But it's also important to realize that when we associate ourselves
with the Fedora trademark, we are entrusted with that value, and
benefit from it ourselves.  The agreement seeks to balance the value
that each individual licensee derives from the trademarks with Red
Hat's responsibility to the rest of the community (and its
stakeholders) to preserve that value for continued use by others.

-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
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