Proposal for ML conduct

Max Spevack mspevack at
Fri May 15 10:20:55 UTC 2009

On Thu, 14 May 2009, Paul W. Frields wrote:

>> We would treat them the same way we would treat any other 
>> contributor. If the person in question looses their ability to do 
>> their job within Fedora, that's a matter the person will have to 
>> bring up with their management chain.  However I strongly feel that 
>> there should be no different treatment no matter who you work for.
> I agree with this.

"Don't kickban me, bro!"

I hardly ever post on this list anymore, and I can't simply come in with 
a troll about tazing, so I guess I am supposed to add something serious 
to this thread.

I don't read fedora-devel-list.  But as a community-type guy who's also 
still involved in some parts of Fedora as part of his job, I hear a lot 
of people complaining about the tone of emails, both on the lists and in 

We've got public flamewars in fedora-devel-list.  We've got kickbans in 
the Cobbler community (perhaps that's been resolved, perhaps it's still 
ongoing) which have rolled over into Planet Fedora.  We've got people 
who complain about every decision that the Art team makes.

We've got a smattering of private issues in different areas, which 
remain private because that is what they are.

None of this is any surprise.  Disagreements -- strong disagreements -- 
will always happen in our community, but that doesn't mean that people 
should ratchet up the flame-meter to a level of 8 or 9 out of 10.

We're definitely seeing a lot more agita than I would think is healthy.

Here's my advice to everyone.  BE TOUGH MINDED.


Some people will disagree with this next statement, but I believe that 
there is absolutely a double-standard when it comes to treating others, 
and here it is:

Volunteers should treat others with respect.  People who are paid by Red 
Hat to be here should bend over backwards to treat others with respect.

That doesn't mean you are not allowed to disagree or pushback, but if 
participating in the Fedora community is what Red Hat pays you to do, 
then whether you like it or not, you are representing Red Hat's brand to 
the rest of the world every time you say something, whether you say it 
from your address or your private address, and whether you 
say "this is only my opinion" or not ahead of time.

Being a jerk is always bad.  But it's even worse when you're effectively 
being a jerk on paid time to someone else who is only being a jerk in 
their free time.

This all said, if the flames deteriorate beyond business into something 
personal, that's simply unacceptable.  "Don't be a jerk" is Fedora's 
code of conduct.  If those personal attacks happen in public, it's 
pretty easy to deal with the situation, because people will see it and 
the offending party will probably get reprimanded by several folks who 
are looking to keep things civil.  If it happens in private, then it's 
obviously more dicey, but there are still plenty of options.

I shall now resume lurking.


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