"What is the Fedora Project?"

Seth Vidal skvidal at fedoraproject.org
Thu Oct 22 14:59:13 UTC 2009

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009, inode0 wrote:

> 2009/10/22 Máirín Duffy <duffy at fedoraproject.org>:
>> On 10/22/2009 09:37 AM, Mike McGrath wrote:
>>> I'm just going to bring up the elephant in the room, at least the one I
>>> see.  Up until this discussion I was under the impression that Ubuntu and
>>> us were not in direct competition.  They were catering to noobs and
>>> general users, we were catering to enthusiasts and experienced users.
>>> Coming out of this conversation (not just with Paul but with everyone) it
>>> seems clear that Ubuntu's goals and our goals greatly overlap if not
>>> completely overlap.
> I think characterizing Ubuntu as catering to noobs is a gross
> simplification of their philosophy and mission. They advertise a
> server distribution on their front page unlike Fedora and I doubt its
> target audience is a bunch of noobs. They have a large and broad
> community and a very clear statement of their philosophy that in some
> important ways I think is stronger and more clear about certain things
> I care very much about.
> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
> In practice, I think Fedora's actions speak louder than its words.
>> I don't think our goals do overlap though. To us, following an
>> excellent, open process of producing software is just as important as
>> producing excellent, open source software. One of our goals is to be a
>> model and an example of that process, and to prove it works so it may be
>> taken up by other domains.
>> I don't think they care about that at all.
>> To us, the means are not justified by the ends - they are just as
>> important. I think to Ubuntu, the ends justify the means.
> In the far back corners of my brain this rings a bell reminding me of
> the arguments I listened to between the free software and open source
> camps when the idea of rebranding free software first began to
> surface.
>>> The problem?  They are KILLING us.  I'm not talking about market share,
>>> I'm talking about my recent converts from Fedora to Ubuntu.  I haven't had
>>> to do a single thing to my wifes computer since I put Ubuntu on there
>>> except setup my printer.  With Fedora I was on it almost daily.
>> Did yum updates cause the breakage?
> Perhaps it is the level of strictness about what software is allowed
> into the distribution ... our refusal to include a "restricted
> component" repository which makes the life of a user who doesn't care
> easier?
> One thing about the Fedora vs. Ubuntu comparison that I always find
> striking when I think about it is that the Fedora community's actions
> align closely to free software but the community doesn't seem very
> fond of calling it that, while the Ubuntu community actions align more
> closely (at least in my mind) with the open source movement (in terms
> of putting a higher initial premium on use, "we'll get to the
> philosophy part later") but its community prefers the association with
> free software.
> In the far back corners of my brain I recall people reminding others
> that both the free software and open source camps were part of the
> same community and I think it is important to keep in mind that Fedora
> and Ubuntu are as well.

yes, if only we'd give in on our core values, then we'd win..

just not sure _what_ we'd win.


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