[Ambassadors] Re: [Fedora-marketing-list] Merging Fedora-Ambassadors-List and Fedora-Marketing-List

Sat Feb 10 18:29:22 UTC 2007

Hi Guys,

I agree with Chitlesh too.

a -1 for the merge

Regards,
Hanafiah

On 2/11/07, Thomas Canniot <thomas.canniot at laposte.net> wrote:
>
> Le samedi 10 février 2007 à 11:41 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH a écrit :
> > On 2/9/07, Thomas Chung wrote:
> >
> > Hello Thomas and everyone,
> >
> > > There have been several discussions on merging Fedora-Ambassadors-List
> > > and Fedora-Marketing-List.  Since there are two groups with two
> > > different opinions on which list should be eliminated and which list
> > > should be survived, I would like to propose a new Fedora Mailing List
> > > with a new name which everyone can agree.
> > >
> > > Based on comparing other distros mailing lists and ours and some
> > > comments made in the past, I would like to propose
> > > "Fedora-Advocates-List"
> >
> > Well, I guess you already know my opinion about it. Perhaps I should
> > be directly in communicating my opinion about this.
> >
> > And yes, we have already talked several times about it, but in the end
> > we have come up with a "NO" for the merge. I don't see why we should
> > keep on discussing this over again and again.
> >
> > If core and extras are merging, this doesn't mean that we should be
> > doing this here in the marketing world of fedora.
> >
> > Core and Extras are merging because they are strong teams. In fact
> > that merge will only be a success, because their contributors have
> > signed CLA and understand that they have responsibilities towards the
> > fedora project.
> >
> > Now in the marketing world of fedora, we have ambassadors and people
> > from the outside. Both aren't strong teams at all. To me fedora
> > ambassadors project sounds like dying. Why ?
> >
>
> That's the way I feel it as well.
>
> > Lack of commitment!
> >
> > I'm not saying lack of commitment of only FAMSCo, but also fedora
> ambassadors.
> >
>
> Well, the one brings the other... If famsco doesn't feel concerned by
> our work, it is not very motivated.
>
> > We have now (today) from
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
> > 161 CLA signed ambassadors.
> > This 161 tells us that we have some ambassadors :
> > - who are committed to the project and participate
> > - who are new and are quite lost due to lack of orientation
> > - who participates actively in other fedora projects but can't afford
> > to spend time to fedora ambassadors project
> > - who are "fedora name takers" people who wants to get the fedora status
> only.
> > - [...]
> >
> > And yes, you can also see some ambassadors on that list who haven't
> > yet signed CLA. Lack of communication ???
> >
> > And among this 161, I know about 50 of them. I just want to tell you
> > here that we should rather stick in building a strong fedora
> > ambassador team.
> > - Helping new ambassadors by a mentoring project
> > - Helping other ambassadors who are preparing a particular event/legal
> > local fedora association
> > - Preparing for the F7 release.
> > - [...]
> >
> > Example:
> > Recently we have seen, some fedora ambassadors having difficulties
> > with their particular events. What the fedora ambassador project has
> > promised them during the preparation, they didn't receive it in time!
> > And this, we have already talked about it before the previous FAMSCo
> > election and we all agreed to some point. But have things changed
> > since we last talked about it ? No. Then, we must solve internal
> > problems/work first.
> >
>
> I really feel concerned by this quote. It happened twice to us, during
> an install party and then for the biggest French event about FOSS.
> I really hesitated to do my planned conference at fosdem then, so as to
> protest.
> But I will do it, I think that demonstrating how motivated we are to the
> american team will help us a lot.
> We are also organizing ourselves to create a non-profit organisation for
> fedora, which will sell fedora branded product at low local cost, bring
> its own tshirt and create its own DVD.
> During the last event in Paris, I could met Franz Meyer, Red Hat EMEA
> leader, and we are going to have serious talking about how Red HaT
> Europe could help us. We have very few needs. Without them, we wouldn't
> have been able to give fedora DVDs to people, as they were highly
> demanded. Red Hat Europe *found* about a 100 DVDs for us. Thanks to
> them.
>
> > Example2:
> > If ThomasChung doesn't chair the weekly meeting, there is no meeting.
> > Last thursday some of us on IRC didn't know when was the meeting, even
> > me. Well is he the only one who is a Fedora Ambassadors ???
> >
>
> Clearly lack of communication. Alex Maier used to remind every one about
> a meeting every week.
> Every sunday when I wake up, the first email I sent to French Ambassador
> is an email to remind them about the meeting. Not that difficult to do,
> and we are always above the 50% of attendance.
>
> > If we are definitely going to merge these 2 lists, it will only
> > - make the above statements harder to realise
> > - bring chaos with the booth/event organisation with respect to trust.
> > - [...(things I can't recall for now).....]
> >
> > Well for the """Since there are two groups with two different opinions
> > on which list should be eliminated and which list should be
> > survived,""":
> >
> > the 2 groups don't have different opinions, afterall we all converge
> > to marketing fedora and spread the fedora word. Where the two groups
> > differ is in the organisation of the ambassador project in REAL WORLD.
> >
> > If we merge the 2 mailing lists:
> >      ambassador ML + marketing ML = ONE ML
> > then
> >      ambassador project + marketing project = marketing project
> > since ambassador project is a subset of the marketing project.
> >
> > Ok, now let's ask do we need fedora ambassador project after all ?
> > Fedora Ambassadors will lose their fedora ambassador status.
> >
>
> Actually, there is a bigger question to ask... what does it mean to be a
> Fedora Ambassador ?
> French are asking the question. What is the point of being Ambassadors
> if we do everything on our own and if we don't have any contact or
> support from Famsco ? I don't have any answer to the question, but we
> already lost one of our most motivated french ambassador. He told me "it
> doesn't change anything to be a fedora ambassador".
>
> > This implies we(the fedora project) are losing something which is
> > unique to fedora. This uniqueness has unknowingly solved many local
> > fedora problems. Since, Fedora Ambassador Project what else it does,
> > it:
> > 1- makes every local marketing agent of fedora to meet other local
> > marketing agents of that particular country.
> > 2- makes all local marketing agents of a particular country
> > talk/discuss with other local marketing agents of different countries.
> > (IRC meetings at #fedora-mktg and fedora ambassador mailing list,
> > Fedora Ambassadors Day)
> > 3- makes all these local marketing agents solve problem together FOR
> > the SOLE fedora interest.(Fedora Ambassadors Day, FUDCons)
> >
> > You see now that local marketing agents are what we call Fedora
> > Ambassadors. With this Fedora Ambassador Infrastructure, we are NOT
> > creating internal fights between Fedora Ambassadors of a particular
> > country for an event for example.
> >
> > Example:
> > Those fedora ambassadors who prepared some events before, may have
> > noticed that in the Ubuntu Community (the what so called largest linux
> > community), 2 or more local Ubuntu teams apply for that particular
> > event. You can even see something during the early stages of the event
> > preparation, the organizers send those local Ubuntu teams emails that
> > to tell them that there is in fact more than one Ubuntu booth
> > registered. And very often those local teams doesn't like each other.
> > I have see some :) and I'm happy it isn't the case till now in the
> > Fedora World.
> > What can we concluded?:
> > - lack of organization
> > - contributors don't converge to the same objectives
> > - [...]
> > While in the Fedora World, we inform the fedora ambassador list for
> > the event preparation. And generally work on that ML rather than local
> > MLs. I hope you see the "Upstream benefit" that Fedora keeps on
> > saying. We had great local fedora communities popping up from that
> > _Fedora Ambassador Infrastructure_: French, German, Indian,
> > Brazillian. We are seeing right now brilliant Belgium Fedora
> > Ambassadors in action.
>
> I strongly agree about this example with the ubuntu community. During
> Linux Solutions in Paris last week, I talked to a ubuntu booth man, and
> they were two on the booth, with a lot of people asking question, with
> no cds at all.
> We were behind them, more than 7 on the booth, and less people came to
> see us (quite normal, we are not as popular). I asked him why they were
> not as organised as we are, it was really surprising. We shouldn't lose
> this kind of organisation.
>
> >
> > Ok, enough blabla, if not you won't read all of them. :)
> >
> > All these should now be telling you that we shouldn't destroy the
> > wheel when we are the first to create one. But rather put on our
> > effort to ENHANCE the wheel.
> >
> > Fedora Ambassador Project brings QUALITY to the Fedora Marketing.
> > Fedora Marketing Project brings new Fedora Ambassadors in.
> >
> > And yes, -1 for the merge.
> >
>
> You have my vote Chitlesh.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas
>
> --
> Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
> Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
>
>
>
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