Fedora Weekly News Issue 92

Thomas Chung tchung at fedoraproject.org
Mon Jun 18 09:16:42 UTC 2007

= Fedora Weekly News Issue 92 =

Welcome to Fedora Weekly News Issue 92[1] for the week of June 10th
through June 16th, 2007. The latest issue can always be found here[2]
and RSS Feed can be found here[3].

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue92

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/LatestIssue

[3] http://feeds.feedburner.com/fwn

   1. Announcements
         1. Reminder - Fedora Core 5 EOL on 2007-06-29
         2. Fedora-Devel-Announce is Now Open
         3. Fedora Board Elections
   2. Planet Fedora
         1. Working on Fedora L10n
         2. End of "I didn't know about that change!?!" for Fedora devel (?)
         3. Workaround for kernel panic on suspend/resume
   3. Marketing
         1. Magazine Fedora 7 (France)
         2. Fedora 7 Xen First Look
         3. Maximum PC reviews Fedora 7
   4. Developments
         1. Guidelineism Defeated By Glorious Benefit Of Action
         2. Cross-building Bliss
         3. Yelping Over Bloated Firefox And Flash
         4. The Updates Firehose
         5. Pay Per Spin Web Interface?
         6. Secondary Arch Proposal Cont.
         7. F8 Devel - User Storage Configurations
         8. R500 Initial Driver Release
   5. Documentation
         1. docs.fedoraproject.org Stats
         2. SELinux
         3. Documentation Project Steering Committee Meeting
         4. Summer Of Code
   6. Translation
         1. Meeting Times
         2. Monitoring Commits
   7. Infrastructure
         1. Security Updates
         2. Escalation Paths/Methods
   8. Artwork
         1. Fedora 8 Theme
   9. Security Week
         1. Fedora Security Response Team
  10. Advisories and Updates
         1. Fedora 7 Security Advisories
         2. Fedora Core 6 Security Advisories
  11. Events and Meetings
         1. Fedora Board Meeting Minutes 2007-06-12
         2. Fedora Documentation Steering Committee 2007-06-12
         3. Fedora Engineering Steering Committee Meeting 2007-06-14
         4. Fedora Infrastructure Meeting 2007-06-14
         5. Fedora Indian Ambassadors Meeting Minutes 2007-06-13
         6. Fedora Packaging Committee Meeting 2007-06-12
         7. Fedora Release Engineering Meeting 2007-06-11
  12. Extras Extras
         1. An interview with Fedora leader Max Spevack
         2. Thomas Chung gives Fedora Talk at Caltech
  13. Feedback

== Announcements ==

In this section, we cover announcements from various projects.

Contributing Writer: ThomasChung

=== Reminder - Fedora Core 5 EOL on 2007-06-29 ===

MaxSpevack announces in fedora-announce-list[1],

"As many of you are aware, our policy on the lifecycles of Fedora
releases is: Fedora X will be maintained until about one month after
Fedora X+2. Fedora 7 was released on May 31st. Fedora Core 5 will
reach its End of Life on Friday June 29th. This was previously
mentioned on fedora-announce-list on May 3rd[2], but is worth

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-June/msg00006.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-May/msg00000.html

=== Fedora-Devel-Announce is Now Open ===

WarrenTogami announces in fedora-announce-list[1],

"fedora-devel-announce list[2] is now open.  The goal of this list is to
make it easy for Fedora contributors to follow changes in that may be
pertinent to developers within the Fedora Project.  This is intended to
be a LOW TRAFFIC announce-only list of development topics, so we hope
subscribers wont feel the need to filter it away from their Inbox."

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-June/msg00005.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-announce

=== Fedora Board Elections ===

MaxSpevack announces in fedora-announce-list[1],

"We are due for our first round of Fedora Board elections. There have
been some threads recently on fedora-advisory-board that have been
working to clarify what the Board's role should be as it goes into its
next term. Those who have not seen that thread may want to look

"The Fedora Board continues to serve as the top-level decision making
body within Fedora. One of the challenges that the "new" Fedora Board
will face is doing a better job of making sure that the Fedora Board
appropriately manages the rest of the Fedora community, and also
Fedora's interaction with the larger Red Hat engineering, legal, etc.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-June/msg00004.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-June/msg00022.html

== Planet Fedora ==

In this section, we cover a highlight of Planet Fedora - an
aggregation of blogs from world wide Fedora contributors.


Contributing Writers: ThomasChung

=== Working on Fedora L10n ===

DimitrisGlezos points out in his blog[1],

"In the last few days I've been working on Fedora's L10n
infrastructure. Not all of it was exciting, but we really need to
increase the quality of our international desktops. Why? Well, for
start, Lord Smolt informs that 3 out of 10 registered systems are
non-English, and I estimate another 2/10 of the en_US have localized
desktop sessions (so that users won't be facing encoding problems on
the command-line)..."

"...And finally, we are building an exciting new front-end to L10n, to
replace the rusty i18n.redhat one. Besides translation statistics, it
presents i18n errors of the module and urges people to code using the
standard libraries, which increase interoperability. It also supports
Subversion, Mercurial, and GIT repos. You can give it a spin at the
testing system we've put up[2]."

[1] http://dimitris.glezos.com/weblog/2007/06/14/working-on-flp/

[2] http://publictest4.fedora.redhat.com/

=== End of "I didn't know about that change!?!" for Fedora development (?) ===

KarstenWade points out in his blog[1],

"Yes, my subject is quite certain that maybe possibly it could be the
end of some of the squabbling and misunderstandings amongst Fedora's
developers and packagers. Because I have so much trust in my fellow
humans, I can say with something almost like sureness that we'll see
this problem addressed ... in our lifetime ..."

"But anyway, Warren Togami announced a good step in the right
direction: Fedora-Devel-Announce is Now Open. Go subscribe. Especially
if you have ever missed a small or large change in Fedora development
that mattered to you. If this list[2] fails to announce something in
the future, just think of all the ground for grievance you'll have!"

[1] http://iquaid.livejournal.com/20071.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-announce

===  Workaround for kernel panic on suspend/resume ===

RolandWolters points out in his blog[1],

"One of the biggest disadvantages of Fedora 7 for me was that my
Suspend to RAM[2] suddenly stoppped working: the kernel crashed on
resume and left me with a kernel panic. I filled bug 241700 but was
only forwarded to the HAL Quirk Site which does feature suspend
problems in a very user friendly way. But although that page has a lot
of helpful tips it does not cover kernel crashes."

After that I re-added the removed kernel modules bit by bit and
checked resume each time. It turned out the broken module is fw_ohci,
the Firewire Open Host Controller Interface. If you also have a kernel
panic on resume you can check for yourself if this module is the
reason: remove it by modprobe -r -v --first-time fw_ohci ("r" is for
remove, "v" is for verbose and "first-time" make the process exit by
error if the module was not loaded in the first place). After that,
suspend the machine and try to resume."

[1] http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/howto-workaround-for-kernel-panic-on-suspendresume/

[2] http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/computer-suspend-it-is-working/

== Marketing ==

In this section, we cover Fedora Marketing Project.


Contributing Writer: ThomasChung

=== Magazine Fedora 7 (France) ===

PierreYvesChibon reports in fedora-marketing-list[1],

"As a member of the French Fedora ambassador team, I am proud to
announce you the future release of an entirely magazine dedicated
Fedora 7. The announce of the release of the magazine is available
here[2]. The magazine will be published in France for 9,95€, it
contains 2 DVDs
(i386 & x86_64)."

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-June/msg00121.html

[2] http://www.linuxidentity.com/html/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11

=== Fedora 7 Xen First Look ===

RahulSundaram reports in fedora-marketing-list[1],

"Overall, the tools for Xen management are coming along quite nicely,
actually developing a bit faster than I expected, and Fedora 7 is a
great place to try them out. They will certainly ease Xen management
(and other virtualization technologies on Linux, for that matter) in
the future and I look forward to taking advantage of them when they
make their way into RHEL 5.1.[2]"

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-June/msg00118.html

[2] http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/06/07/fedora-7-xen-first-look/

=== Maximum PC reviews Fedora 7 ===

RahulSundaram reports in fedora-marketing-list[1],

"If you love Red Hat, it goes without saying that you're bound to go
nuts over Fedora 7. But this distro is also worth a look for just
about anyone who wants to try Linux for the first time. With a
noob-friendly installation routine and simple customization menus that
make daily use a breeze, we're glad Fedora 7 has thrown its hat into
the ring.[2]"

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-June/msg00117.html

[2] http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fedora_7_rivals_ubuntus_ease_of_use

== Developments ==

In this section, we cover the problems/solutions,
people/personalities, and ups/downs of the endless discussions on
Fedora Developments.


Contributing Writer: OisinFeeley

=== Guidelineism Defeated By Glorious Benefit Of Action ===
HansRosbach noticed[1] something that had been commented on before[2]:
the dependence of GRUB on fedora-logos, which in turn depends on gtk2,
which in turn depends on a whole pile of Xlib stuff.  Hans wanted to
know why all this was required for a boot menu, when it wasn't
required in FC4 to FC6, and also thought that the dependencies were in
the wrong order anyway.  RahulSundaram answered[3] that this had been
discussed before and explained that fedora-logos was a single package
of trademarked images and logos for legal reasons.  This makes it
simpler for derivative distributions to remove all Fedora trademarked

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01823.html

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue91#head-ce92d2e708b4bfabf99accc5c34b7a8fc3142e79

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01831.html

After examining the link supplied by Rahul, AxelThimm suggested[4]
that one of two things should happen: 1. the guideline that a package
must require application directories into which it may drop files
should be relaxed for fedora-logos or it should be made a co-owner of
those application directories; 2. a sub-package containing a
minimalist set of files for GRUB's splash screen should be created.
Axel proposed that he could ask the Packaging Committee to relax the
guideline and asked which of the options was best.  He also thought
that "We can't allow blind guideline-ism to create such awkward
where simply booting the system requires gtk!"

[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01836.html

The second option was impractical according[5] to MatthiasClasen
because "legal" specifically wanted a single-package of trademarked
images, BillNottingham later clarified[6] that this specifically meant
logos and logotype, but not themes and icons.  This was news to
KevinKofler who was able to show[7] that the Fedora logo was in
redhat-artwork and redhat-artwork-kde.  Bill requested Kevin to file a
bug asking for logo.png to be moved into fedora-logos.

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01843.html

[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01858.html

[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01847.html

Hot on the heels of this discussion thhe maintainer AdamJackson (ajax)
posted[8] promptly to say that he had implemented option 1 in rawhide
with fedora-logos no longer requiring anything and co-owning the
directories into which it drops files. He cautioned that this was
likely to break respins.

[8] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01904.html

=== Cross-building Bliss ===
Continuing the discussion of cross-compilation started last week[1],
BrendanConoboy expanded[2] upon what he saw as the main technical and
social issues which needed to be resolved. Brendan noted the ability
of gcc and binutils to use sys-roots and necessity to extend the build
system (e.g. Koji), and the need to modify individual packages to
support cross-compilation.

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue91#head-db39d837890b30155e2f18a185e09e790a6c880f

[2]  https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01192.html

Picking up on the central chicken-and-egg problem of how to get a
glibc for a new architecture, DavidWoodhouse argued[3] that the
current "solution" was a problem because it didn't separate gcc and
glibc. Brendan suggested limiting the discussion to the current
architectures which led to David identifying[5] that one
classification of the problem saw it break down into the distinct
subproblems of building (which was relatively soluble), and packaging
(which was more restricted and inflexible and needed multiple
rpmbuilds currently).  Brendan outlined[6] three possible SRPMS: 1) a
single bloated master package for all possible targets; 2) a smaller
number of single SRPMS for multiple targets grouped for technical
reasons; and  3)HansdeGoede's solution of a single SRPM for a specific
single architecture/target.

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01214.html

[4] http://people.redhat.com/drepper/dsohowto.pdf

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01607.html

[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01675.html

RalfCorsepius definitely favored[7] avoiding option #1 and pointed out
that while #3 had a downside in that it bloated repositories it was
what he was currently doing succesfully. AndyGreen thought[8] that #1
was the Holy Grail as it led to a single point of control, reducing
the loss of information which would occur in multiple specfiles. An
exchange between Andy and HansdeGoede brought out[9] an important
distinction between Fedora-to-Fedora crosses versus
Fedora-to-CompletelyOtherOS crosses (Hans was dealing with 256B RAM

[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01676.html

[8] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01677.html

[9] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01687.html

This distinction was also made[10] by Hans after Ralf and David seemed
to be talking at cross-purposes, with David wanting to avoid pandering
to architectures which didn't work with the current toolchain and yet
hadn't worked to get the toolchain fixed upstream.  David had earlier
referenced JakubJelinek's succesful approach to the kernel as a model
for how to deal with this human aspect of the problem.  Hans pointed
out that what he and Ralf were doing was to produce specific
executables stored on removable media and targetted at an onboard OS.
Hans particular expertise is with the gp2x[11a].  David accepted the
distinction and Ralf explained[11] that he was interested in a
slightly broader problem which involved the RTEMS[12] embedded OS both
as a target in its own right and also in the problem of making a
Canadian-cross of RTEMs on Fedora targetted to other important OSes.

[10] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01683.html

[11] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01689.html

[11a] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X

[12] http://www.rtems.com/

As the spotlight was focused on him Hans naturally took the
opportunity to ask[13] why there hadn't been more feedback on his
arm-gp2x review tickets.  Ralf responded that glibc was not familiar
to him, but that he was concerned with the use of a bootstrap in the
specfile.  This prompted[14] Brendan to admit that this was one of
DavidWoodhouse's central points and that it was indeed the only
current way.  A detailed discussion between Ralf and Brendan seemed to
result in consensus[15] that some means of extending rpm to separate
out target/foreign-arch packages from the host/native rpmdb was
needed.  Ralf proposed[16] a second, completely isolated rpmdb for the
target arch, which he surmised would be like the way mock and mach
used chroots. Brendan concurred[17] that "leveraging mock is going to
a key to cross building bliss."

[13] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01678.html

[14] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01709.html

[15] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01811.html

[16] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01742.html

[17] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01911.html

AndyGreen exposed[18] the problem that BuildRequires: in a specfile
being used for cross-compilation will conflate requirements for both
the host and the target and proposed that rpmbuild be enhanced to deal
with this case.  DavidSmith's experience[19] was that the problem was
actually worse and had needed some conditional architecture testing in
BuildPrerequires.  Ralf drew further details of this solution from
David[20] and ClarkWilliams[21] with regard to the ability of rpm to
install rpms with foreign/non-host architecture to a specific rpmroot.

[18] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01816.html

[19] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01841.html

[20] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01861.html

[21] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01883.html

In a later branch of the discussion AndyGreen raised[22] the forking
of RPM which has taken place as an opportunity to implement these
changes to how BuildRequires should be handled for cross-compilation.

[22]  https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01921.html

AndyGreen clarified[23] to OliverFalk that while cross-compiled
packages might need to be tested on native hardware, the actual
compilation should work.  LennertBuytenhek wasn't so sure[24], citing
the possibility that the binaries, although functionally equivalent,
might not be identical.

[23] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01478.html

[24] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01637.html

=== Yelping Over Bloated Firefox And Flash ===
A confused[1] HansdeGoede wondered why he had received conflicting
comments on packages he maintains about whether the help-viewer "Yelp"
should be made a Requires: or not.  Hans' personal opinion was that it
should be as otherwise the packages lacked basic functionality without
even throwing an error.  ChristopherAillon thought[2] that Yelp should
be required once by base gnome and not in each of the hundreds of
individual gnome packages.  VilleSkyttä pointed[3] to the bloated
chain of dependencies (including Firefox) that requiring yelp entailed
and said this was a general trend of GNOME. Christopher agreed and
pointed[4] to possible future dependencies on nspluginwrapper and

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01337.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01338.html

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01347.html

[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01417.html

BillNottingham suggested that surely this was a function call in a
common gnome library, leading ToshioKuratomi (who also had an affected
package) to spend some time tracing[5] the chain of calls and suggest
that libgnomeui should require HelpBrowser or DocbookXMLViewer which
would be virtual provides in yelp.  RayStrode discovered that there
was a gnome_help mechanism to put up a dialog warning that help was
missing and wondered[6] if help could be thought of as an optional
feature. This was attractive to BernardoInnocenti (who thought the
removal of help would benefit OLPC in size reduction), but not favored
by Bill (who thought that the solution was to make the viewer less
bloated), or Toshio (who thought that program help was a different
category than man pages or README files).

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01471.html

[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01522.html

Ray's news about gnome-help was welcomed by Toshio, who also noted[7]
that yelp was selected as the help view by means of Gconf key, which
seemed to bear out[8] a horrified BillNottingham's joke that rpm would
need to dynamically compose requires from the union of all users'
gconf keys.

[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01537.html

[8] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01538.html

A brief digression[9] into the bizarre American penchant for mixing up
the natural date order landed explanations from AlanCox[10] on the
rationale behind this and from CaolanMcNamara[11] on how to change the
order in OOimpress.

[9] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01545.html

[10] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01600.html

[11] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01580.html

ColinWalters thought[12] the GConf key could just be ignored and
unwittingly touched-off a flamewar when he wondered whether anyone
would really miss help. ChristopherAillon advanced[13] the argument
that the real problem was not to do with yelp, but with the provision
of a firefox-32 package against his wishes.  This apparently[14]
provides an icon which runs a 32-bit Firefox installed on a x86_64
system to view Flash plugin content.  Christopher was annoyed that his
recommendations had been over ridden.

[12] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01544.html

[13] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01563.html

[14] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01597.html

An attempt by MattMiller to draw a distinction between an opinion
mattering versus being completely authoritative revealed[15] the depth
of Christopher's frustration.  He pointed to the difficult legal
requirements that made his life hell and threatened[16] to leave the
project leaving Fedora with Iceweasel and no maintainer.

[15] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01598.html

[16] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01605.html

WarrenTogami responded[17] with the argument that the problem was
nothing to do with firefox-32, and that an earlier conflict had been
arbitrated through engineering management in Warren's favor and that
Christopher's characterization was "FUD with a few outright lies
sprinkled within."  Warren argued that the script was necessary until
nspluginwrapper was supported.  BillNottingham thought that Warren was
actually making Christopher's life harder as asserted, leading
MattMiller to try to present[18] a balanced recognition that both
Warren and Christopher were highly respected and experienced.

[17] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01644.html

[18] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01665.html

At this point MatejCepl returned[19] to Hans' original query.  Matej's
post took responsibility for not communicating some discussion on
#fedora-devel instead of RH-interal IRC, but more interestingly
suggested that what was needed was the addition of soft-dependencies
in packages, akin to Debians Suggests: and Recommends:.  Following
enquiry from JesseKeating, Matej explained[20] that a Recommends flag
would indicate to yum that if a recommended package were removed then
an unspecified but useful functionality would be lost.  AxelThimm
thought this was horribly reminiscent of some older Windows packaging
"quirks" and while DominikMierzejewski (rathann) agreed[21] he also
pointed out that the soon-to-arrive standalone Gecko would simplify
all this.

[19] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01394.html

[20] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01444.html

[21] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01656.html

=== The Updates Firehose ===
Noting the large number of updates JesseKeating asked[1] were they all
necessary. This led to a discussion of one differentiator of Fedora
from other distributions, and also to several rumblings of discontent
from packagers about the imposition of more interference.

BrunoWolff liked having them available but asked[2] if it was possible
to have an extra categorization available so that yum could e.g. be
told only to select security updates and bug-fixes but not new
packages. Jesse responded[3] that LukeMacken would be implementing
that and in future Pup would show a list of the notes which
maintainers had inserted into bodhi. TillMaas and Luke later
discussed[4] this, with Luke noting that although the yum-security
plugin is present, bodhi still needs to be altered. Separately
JasonTibbits and KevinKofler also discussed[4a] such functionality.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01277.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01278.html

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01304.html

[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01435.html

[4a] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01307.html

ChristopherBlizzard asked[5] if any users were actually complaining,
and pointed out that Fedora wasn't RHEL. BernardoInnocenti advanced[6]
the case of multiple machines needing updates, which sparked a good
subthread[7] around MattDomsch's suggestions about how to add a local
private mirror to mirromanager. GianlucaSforna posted[8] a link to the
GuruLabs automatic-local-mirror HOWTO, while BillNottingham preferred
a yum-plugin written by RobertSpanton to allow local repository
mirrors to be discovered by yum.  DaxKelson pointed out that his
method had the advantage of needing no modifications to the client.

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01281.html

[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01284.html

[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01311.html

[8] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01565.html

The definition of "local mirror" was raised[9] by PekkaSavola and
following JakubJelinek's enquiries about the "3 mirrors per country"
rule, Matt laid out[10] the changes that need to be made to improve
the situation.

[9] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01466.html

[10] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01517.html

Several maintainers, including JefSpaleta, voiced[11] a desire for
best-practices guidelines to help in determining when to push an
update. Jef also wondered how many of the updates were due to new
packages entering the tree versus bug-fixes to existing packages.
Stimulated by this JesseKeating, BillNottingham and WillWoods tossed
around[12] ways of gathering statistics on which installed packages
were actually used, including porting Debian's popcon or modifying
Mugshot. While ColinWalters and RahulSundaram considered adapting

[11] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01285.html

[12] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01532.html

AxelThimm was generally happy with the updates and disagreed[13] with
ChristopherAillon that too many changes were being backported from
rawhide to F7, resulting in a lack of incentive to upgrade to F8.
TillMaas and RudolfKastl also disagreed with Christopher[14] on where
the line should be drawn on bugs that should be fixed with updates.
Rudolf pointed out that presto would probably make the updates
palatable for users and that Fedora's rapid progress was one of the
reasons he used it instead of other distros.

[13] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01427.html

[14] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01567.html

Echoing[15] the general happiness with the updates strategy,
KevinKofler thought that the updates were Fedora's strength and
differentiated it from other distros.  MichaelSchwendt was
skeptical[16] because of the unhappiness of users with broken apps.
Rahul proposed[17] that a policy on updates be written, prompting a
negative reaction from HansdeGoede[18] who requested that objective
measurements be used to determine if a problem existed before any
policies were written.  NeilThompson was much more blunt, and worried
[19] that his bowel movements would soon be regulated and that the
community was being destroyed by heavy-handed bureaucracy.  Responding
to this MatthiasClasen deprecated[20] the language and suggested that
the granularity of updates mentioned previously would allow filtering
on the client side.

[15] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01339.html

[16] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01339.html

[17] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01349.html

[18] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01355.html

[19] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01359.html

[20] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01410.html

=== Pay Per Spin Web Interface? ===
A new forum to provide respins of Fedora called respins.org was
mentioned[1] by RahulSundaram.  Rahul wondered if there was a
web-interface layered over pungi and livecd-tools to allow package
selection and ISO generation.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01316.html

NicolasMailhot wasn't too keen[2] about the bandwidth implications.
Rahul argued that infrastructure had not objected, but MikeMcGrath
responded[3] that Rahul hadn't given them enough information to
determine how much bandwidth would be used. It seemed there was a
mis-communication over which emails should have been ignored.

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01356.html

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01413.html

SethVidal responded[4] to Nicolas that the costs of such a service
would be huge and a fee-based site had been discussed to allow
individuals to produce a customised spin.  Seth donned asbestos
underpants and pointed out that the tool would be fully open source.
JonathanSteffan offered up[5] some of the Red Hat interns working on
the project to take some of the flames, but for some reason they
remained quiet! Jonathan also posted[6] details of the current and
future state of the Revisor tool.  It wasn't clear from reading this
whether this is what the interns are working on. Revisor currently has
a Gtk front-end, but the development work could see that replaced with
anything including a web front-end.

[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01429.html

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01442.html

[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01441.html

JeroenVanMeeuwen, also of the Revisor project, posted[7] more details
including the massive number of enhancement requests they're

[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01375.html

=== Secondary Arch Proposal Cont. ===
Last weeks proposal on 2ary architectures[1] by TomCallaway continued
to draw comment.  ChristopherBlizzard had several points to make[2],
and ThorstenLeemhuis objected[3] to the first, which was that a
maintainer would be responsible for making sure his/her package built
on all the primary architectures.  Thorsten thought this would
dissuade people from being Fedora maintainers and preferred the model
pioneered by DavidWoodhouse for PPC in which there would be a team/SIG
which could be appealed to for help.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg00463.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01792.html

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01829.html

David thought[4] that Chris actually had the right idea and that
ideally maintainers should be competent enough to fix bugs and
thoroughly understand the code and preferred to sacrifice quantity to
quality.  David also thought that the maintainer's sponsor should have
primary responsibility to help the maintainer, but also saw the value
of a team which could help out. In his experience most bugs were not
actually arch-specific, but were generic and just exposed on
particular architectures.  KevinKofler and David swapped[5] examples
of such bugs.

[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01838.html

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01840.html

The question arose[6] as to whether PPC was a secondary architecture
now, and David answered[7] negatively, pointing to a decision to wait
until another architecure has proved the system will work.  MattDomsch
backed this up[8] with a link to the Jun 12 FAB minutes, while
AxelThimm disputed[9] Matt's interpretation.

[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01873.html

[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01892.html

[8] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01884.html

[9] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01896.html

=== F8 Devel - User Storage Configurations ===

A proposal to create a single directory to hold all the dot-files
created by applications to hold user settings was mooted[1] by
DavidTimms. It received mainly negative responses from KDE users[2].
MatejCepl also pointed David to the work done already by the
freedesktop project on basedir[3].

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01728.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01737.html

[3] http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.5.html

=== R500 Initial Driver Release ===
FlorianLaRoche and MikeChambers both wanted to know if the R500
drivers (for very recent ATI video cards) would be packaged for F7 or
F8.  AdamJackson (ajax) responded[1] that he needed to test them on
their intended hardware first. Mike and AdamTkac were eager[2] to put
their X1300s to the test.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01770.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01775.html

Very quickly ajax posted[3] a notification of a testbuild, noting its
failure on his own T60p, requirement of libpciaccess and inclusion in
the next rawhide push. DavidZeuthen gave[4] quick, detailed feedback
about partial success on a MacBookPro with an X1600/M56P.
NathanielNoblet with an X1650[5], and MikeChambers with an X1300 had a
disappointing experience and ajax emphasized[6] that he was making
sure that bugs reported to him would pass upstream.

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01802.html

[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01807.html

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01804.html

[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01868.html

== Documentation ==

In this section, we cover the Fedora Documentation Project.


Contributing Writer: JonathanRoberts

=== docs.fedoraproject.org Stats ===

MikeMcGrath posted a link to the fedora-docs-list[1], pointing to the
statistics for the docs.fedoraproject.org site[2]. The statistics show
that, so far this month, there have been 149,219 unique visitors to
the site! It was noted, however, that the number one search term was
"disable selinux", leading to a discussion about the current state of
the SELinux FAQ.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00069.html

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.html

=== SELinux ===

After reviewing the statistics for docs.fedoraproject.org, KarstenWade
pointed out that there was no maintained canonical FAQ, with the top
two results on Google for "disable selinux" pointing to the FC3
SELinux FAQ and the RHEL 4 SELinux FAQ[1]. As a possible solution to
this it was proposed that a permanent URL on the wiki, or on the
future Plone implementation, would help encourage regular updates. It
was decided, however, that the FAQ should point upstream to
selinuxproject.org for overall information, with Fedora specific
information maintained by the Documentation Project[2].  PauloSantos
stepped forward and offered to maintain this FAQ[3].

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00077.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00084.html

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00086.html

=== Documentation Project Steering Committee Meeting ===

The log for the 12th June meeting of the FDSCo was posted to the
fedora-docs-list[1]. A HTML version is also available[2].

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00085.html

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070612

=== Summer Of Code ===

VillePekkaVainio posted a question to the fedora-docs-list regarding
his Summer Of Code project, creating a system for publishing and
editing man/info pages with MoinMoin[1]. The question revolves around
the best format to store the information in, trying to strike a
balance between making editing available to new users and making the
edits accessible to upstream as easily integrated patches.

Amit Uttam wrote to the fedora-docs-list about his Summer Of Code
project, to create an elegant DocBook to PDF solution. Despite this
project not being selected as an official Summer Of Code project, he
still plans to develop the project[2], and as such, posted the
original project proposal.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00082.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00088.html

== Translation ==

This section, we cover the news surrounding the Fedora Translation
(L10n) Project.


Contributing Writer: JasonMatthewTaylor

=== Meeting Times ===

The Translation team is looking at different meeting times[1] to
ideally get more attendance, which, in turn will help better organize
and direct the project.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2007-June/msg00055.html

=== Monitoring Commits ===

For those that are so inclined, it is now possible to monitor
Translation team commits[1].

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2007-June/msg00114.html

== Infrastructure ==

In this section, we cover the Fedora Infrastructure Project.


Contributing Writer: JasonMatthewTaylor

=== Security Updates ===

DamianMyerscough noted some security concerns[1] to be addressed in
the near future.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-June/msg00154.html

=== Escalation Paths/Methods ===

Discussion[1] has been had about how and who to notify in the event of
various outages/events.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-June/msg00164.html

== Artwork ==

In this section, we cover Fedora Artwork Project.


Contributing Writer: JonathanRoberts

=== Fedora 8 Theme ===

Following last weeks discussion about artwork for Fedora 8, this week
has seen a lot of activity over the creation of a new theme for Fedora
8, with several mock-ups being created. Focus has been spread across a
number of mock-ups, including MartinSourada's work[1],
MairinDuffy's[2] and Mark's[3]. A lot of the information discussed in
the threads has been collated into a wiki page[4], making it easily

The discussion about artwork for Fedora 8 also branched out to the
Fedora Forums, with a summary of the thread posted to the list[5].

[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00089.html

[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00114.html

[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00092.html

[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00121.html

[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-June/msg00110.html

== Security Week ==

In this section, we highlight the security stories from the week in Fedora.

Contributing Writer: JoshBressers

=== Fedora Security Response Team ===

Last week was a rather slow news week as far as security news goes.
The biggest news that should affect Fedora would be the fact that the
Fedora Security Response Team has finally gotten off the ground.  The
group is currently pouring over the current list of known CVE ids to
determine if we've missed any old flaws in Fedora 7.  Once that's done
the team will take over the constant task of parsing all the new
vulnerabilities that affect Fedora 7.

Anyone is welcome to help in this effort.  One of the team goals is to
keep things open and transparent.  Anytime security work is being
done, it is hard to keep the process open for a number of reasons.
One of the bigger reasons is that if all the information isn't public,
it can be easy to sweep certain flaws under the rug and forget about
them.  This is bad for any project, especially something like Fedora.

If you have any interest in this group, feel free to join the mailing
list[1], or stop by #fedora-security on Freenode.  All are welcome,
there's plenty of work to do.  It's still a small team, but the
current group seems to be doing a fine job.  More informatoin on the
team can be found on the wiki[2].

[1] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-security-list

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security/ResponseTeam

== Advisories and Updates ==

In this section, we cover Secuirity Advisories and Package Updates
from fedora-package-announce.

Contributing Writer: ThomasChung

=== Fedora 7 Security Advisories ===

 * 2007-06-16 [SECURITY] evolution-data-server-1.10.2-3.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-16 [SECURITY] phpPgAdmin-4.1.2-1.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-13 [SECURITY] kernel-2.6.21-1.3228.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-13 [SECURITY] libexif-0.6.15-2.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-13 [SECURITY] openoffice.org-2.2.0-14.11 -
 * 2007-06-12 [SECURITY] spamassassin-3.2.1-1.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] mecab-0.96-1.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] perl-mecab-0.96-1.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] python-mecab-0.96-1.fc7 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] ruby-mecab-0.96-1.fc7 -

=== Fedora Core 6 Security Advisories ===

 * 2007-06-13 [SECURITY] iscsi-initiator-utils- -
 * 2007-06-12 [SECURITY] openoffice.org-2.0.4-5.5.23 -
 * 2007-06-12 [SECURITY] spamassassin-3.1.9-1.fc6 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] file-4.21-1.fc6 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] libexif-0.6.15-1.fc6 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] mod_perl-2.0.2-6.2.fc6 -
 * 2007-06-11 [SECURITY] pam- -

== Events and Meetings ==

In this section, we cover event reports and meeting summaries from
various projects.

Contributing Writer: ThomasChung

=== Fedora Board Meeting Minutes 2007-06-12 ===

 * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-June/msg00128.html

=== Fedora Documentation Steering Committee 2007-06-12 ===

 * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00125.html

=== Fedora Engineering Steering Committee Meeting 2007-06-14 ===

 * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01945.html

=== Fedora Infrastructure Meeting 2007-06-14 ===

 * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-June/msg00183.html

=== Fedora Indian Ambassadors Meeting Minutes 2007-06-13 ===

 * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2007-June/msg00080.html

=== Fedora Packaging Committee Meeting 2007-06-12 ===

 * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2007-June/msg00506.html

=== Fedora Release Engineering Meeting 2007-06-11 ===

 * https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-June/msg01603.html

== Extras Extras ==

Contributing Writer: ThomasChung

=== An interview with Fedora leader Max Spevack ===

MaxSpevack was interivewed by LWN[1]:

"Now that Fedora 7 has been released, Fedora project leader Max
Spevack has a little bit of breathing room. Like nature, LWN abhors a
vacuum, so we sent Max a list of questions and a request for answers.
We are now happy to present the answers. Without further ado..."

[1] http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/237700/f18ea8cb3b2c9745/

=== Thomas Chung gives Fedora Talk at Caltech ===

ThomasChung gave a Fedora Presentation for San Gabriel Valley Linux
Users Group at Caltech[1] on his birthday. The topic was "Fedora 7 -
What's New" and Live Demo on virt-manager with KVM and Revisor. Some
Fedora 7 DVDs and Fedora Stickers were also given to the group at the
end of the presentation.

[1] http://today.caltech.edu/calendar/item.tcl?calendar_id=75423

== Feedback ==

This document is maintained by the Fedora News Team[1]. Please feel
free to contact us to give your feedback. If you'd like to contribute
to a future issue of the Fedora Weekly News, please see the Join[2]
page to find out how to help.

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NewsProject

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NewsProject/Join

Thomas Chung

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